Recorded in the studio in the before times, Robin chats to epidemiologist, podcaster and author Dr Suzi Gage about her book, Say Why to Drugs. They chat about what is and isn't deemed a drug, shifting political opinions about drugs and the difficulties involved with researching drug use. Also Robin talks about the time he once took ecstasy on a canal boat. Support the show to get extended editions of episodes and other goodies at patreon.com/bookshambles