Talking Europe

With just a few weeks to go before EU elections, the far right in France is on track for a comfortable win, if the polls are correct. The National Rally only just beat France's ruling party, Renaissance, in the last EU elections in 2019. This time, a wide gap has opened between the two, potentially striking a serious political blow to President Emmanuel Macron and his idea of a more powerful Europe. The National Rally has struck a chord with its campaign about purchasing power, standards of living and crime in French cities. We take a closer look.

Programme prepared by Isabelle Romero, Sophie Samaille, Agnès Le Cossec and Perrine Desplats

It has been called an invisible epidemic. Every year, around 300,000 people in Europe die prematurely because of air pollution, according to the European Environment Agency. Those of us living in cities are particularly exposed to unsafe levels of fine particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide. The EU is trying to bring air quality closer to World Health Organization guidelines, but the political deal that has been struck includes a clause that will allow member states to delay action by up to 10 years, if specific conditions are met. So how meaningful is this new legislation? We put the question to two MEPs.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Isabelle Romero, Sophie Samaille and Agnès Le Cossec

Is the EU's single market failing? Faced with growing competition from China and the US, the bloc is falling behind. The union has been relying on the single market to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services and people for more than 30 years. But inertia is creeping in, and it’s time for a new single market, says our guest Enrico Letta, a former prime minister of Italy, president of the Jacques Delors institute and author of a high-level report on the single market's future. He has just presented the report to EU leaders, after hundreds of meetings in dozens of European cities, in which Letta tried to gauge where the market is delivering for people – and where it isn't.

Letta argues that too many people are not benefiting from the single market, which is "perceived as a great opportunity for big companies but less of an opportunity for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). That's why I put in the report many ideas to help SMEs. The most important of those is a simplification, to avoid having to change legal regime between different countries."

He elaborates: "The cosmopolitan part of our society is very happy with the single market. But there's a large part of society that is less mobile, and thinks that the market is not adapted to them."

The former Italian premier calls for a fifth freedom to be added to the single market, on top of the four founding ones – freedom of goods, services, capital and labour – which would be focused on enhancing research, innovation and education.

"The lack of innovation is one of the reasons why we are lagging behind the US and other parts of the world," Letta explains. "We need to scale up investments and innovation. We need to encourage the circular movement of researchers and scholars in Europe; not only going from east to west and from south to north, as is the case today. The fifth freedom would be a boost for the future of the single market."

Letta says he tried to inject a sense of urgency into his report. "We have to be very fast in introducing the big changes at the European level, at the single market level. Otherwise, inertia means decline for Europe," he says. He takes the example of energy, telecoms and finance.

"The main point is how to integrate the sectors where the single market wasn't integrated until now, because these three sectors – financial markets, energy and telecoms – are the main sectors in terms of competitiveness. And today we are lagging behind because we are not integrated. We are in reality 27 markets, and we are too small to compete with the Chinese and the Americans."

Letta admits that the political hurdles to more integration in those areas are "very big".

"First of all, because of the idea of national sovereignty, which everyone wants to defend," Letta explains. "But in reality, we have to have a European sovereignty on these topics. It's the only way to be economically secure. And the most important part is related to financial services, because today, everything that is finance is going to the US. We are too small; too fragmented and so less competitive. On the integration of the financial market, I propose to launch the Savings and Investments Union, as the only way to finance the green, digital and just transitions. That is the most important choice for the European Union in the coming years."

Programme prepared by Agnès Le Cossec, Paul Guianvarc'h, Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

Georgia has erupted in protest once again, as the ruling Georgian Dream party pursues a "foreign agents" bill in parliament – something that has left a question mark hanging over the country’s European ambitions. The EU granted the ex-Soviet nation candidate status to join the bloc last December. We speak to Georgia's President Salomé Zourabichvili, who plans to veto the final draft of the law, but admits that parliament can still override her veto. That makes the October 26 election even more crucial for re-asserting the country’s European path, she says.

Zourabichvili explains that, contrary to what Georgia's ruling party says, the draft law is not equivalent to transparency legislation in Western countries. "It's an exact copy of the law that was passed by Russia and which allowed Russia to clamp down on nongovernmental organisations first and on the media next," she says. "And the Georgian authorities are pushing this law for the second time. Last year they declined to go forward with it, and now they are proposing the same law and their aim and objective is no different."

The Georgian president says she will veto the bill after it has gone through various readings. But she admits that the ruling party has the votes in parliament to ultimately overturn her veto. In that case, what is the answer? "The answer to this law, and to many other laws, and to the anti-European, anti-Western rhetoric coming from the governing party, will be in the elections," she states.

"We have elections on October 26 of this year. And now it's very clear that the elections will be a kind of referendum for or against Europe. What type of future do we want for Georgia? The Georgian population has been supporting the European path for years and years now, with 80 percent of all the opinion polls in favour. The granting of EU candidate status to Georgia has only reinforced the sense that we are now close to the next stage, and that is a stage that nobody here wants to see escaping us. Georgians will probably vote en masse next October. I'm very confident and I'm very hopeful."

Watch moreForeign agents law an attempt to 'suppress critical voices', Georgian president tells FRANCE 24

We also ask Zourabichvili about the speech given by Bidzina Ivanishvili – often called the éminence grise of Georgian politics – in Tbilisi on April 29. In it, he called Georgia and Ukraine "cannon fodder" for the "pro-war party" in NATO. "This anti-Western rhetoric is copied from the anti-Western rhetoric that you hear in Moscow," she says. "This invention of 'the party of war' that supposedly would push Georgia into war is something that has been used repeatedly by the ruling party. They're trying to push us into some form of neutrality. That seems to be the objective of the ruling party and of Mr. Ivanishvili. But that is not the wish of the vast majority of the Georgian population."

Zourabichvili reacts to calls from MEPs for the release of jailed former Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili. They say the way he is being treated is a "litmus test of the Georgian government's commitment to European values".

"European MEPs are a bit disconnected from the Georgian reality," Zourabichvili responds. "Much of the population does not want to see a comeback of Mr. Saakashvili and of the authoritarian rule that characterised him. Nor do they want today's ruling party and its pro-Russian and pro-authoritarian character to remain in power. So that is a choice that is open to the Georgian people. They want something new, they want something democratic, and they want something European. And that's what we're going to see in the next elections."

Talking Europe sits down with one of the European Parliament’s most prominent veterans, Co-chair of the Greens Philippe Lamberts. The Belgian MEP has served in three legislatures since 2009 and says he has seen a big difference in both awareness and action on environmental issues in that time. Lamberts, who is stepping down from the EU Parliament, is characteristically outspoken on the bloc's Green Deal, the farming issue, investment in the EU economy and the various scandals that have rocked the European Parliament, such as Qatargate.

Lamberts talks about why Green parties are faring poorly in the opinion polls ahead of the June 9 European elections, when climate change is such an obvious issue. 

"What the Greens propose is quite a substantial change, especially in our economic model," Lamberts says. "And change is, well, making people afraid. There's an aversion to change, which I can understand. But we can't afford not to change. That's one aspect. Second – and I don't want to blame others – but we have been made the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong. The best example was the farmers' revolt. The revolt is caused by an economic model that is crushing farmers. But it was 'all the fault of the Greens'."

Lamberts is adamant, though, that the Greens' fortunes in this election can still turn around.

"Most voters decide very late in their in their thinking process," he opines. "Some decide in the last days, the last hours, the last minutes before voting. So we have to keep fighting."

Does Lamberts believe the Greens will be in opposition in the next EU parliament, or part of a majority? 

"We have a certain sense of the gravity of the situation that the European Union finds itself in. That sense of responsibility calls us to really look at options that would make for a stable, pro-European majority in the European Parliament," Lamberts affirms. "Such a majority should not only defend the gains of the European Green Deal. We have to make everything that has been adopted work. For that you need investment, not just regulation. And also, there are many areas that have been left alone by the Green Deal, starting with agriculture. So what we will want is a deepening and a widening of the Green Deal. On that condition we would be ready to support a pro-European majority in the European Parliament."

On the investment that will be needed to power the green transition, Lamberts goes against the grain of EU leaders, who keep saying that the private sector can play a big role. 

"They (the EU leaders) have this liberal ideology which says that actually the state is a factor of inefficiency in the market. So the smaller the state, the better it is. Well, the fact is that every serious study, every serious economist, is telling you that without very strong public investment, the Green Deal will not happen," Lamberts says.

 "Even in areas where you might think, 'well, it has to be private', like building renovation," he goes on. "Most buildings are privately owned. So you might say that's for private investment to fund it. But that's a bit too easy, actually. Most homeowners do not have spare capital available to pay for the refurbishment of their houses. Which means that actually, if you really want a renovation wave for a whole category of households without public investment, it won't happen. I can afford to renovate my home, but many can't."

Lamberts also has a message for former Italian premier Mario Draghi, the author of a much-awaited report on EU competitiveness. 

"When Draghi says that most of the investment has to come from the private sector – Yes, in theory, Mario, but in practice, no!"

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Agnès Le Cossec and Isabelle Romero

As Spaniards get ready to elect 61 MEPs to the European Parliament in the June 9 elections, regional elections in Spain are sucking much of the political oxygen. The pro-independence EH Bildu coalition celebrated a historic result in the Basque vote on April 20. Many eyes are now turned to the Catalan regional election on May 12, while the Spanish government works on a controversial amnesty law for those involved in the failed 2017 secession attempt in Catalonia. We discuss how these issues are impacting the national conversation, as well as touching on the EU campaign themes in Spain – including the cost of living, healthcare and migration.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Agnès Le Cossec and Isabelle Romero

For months, Europe has been rocked by protests as farmers decry high costs and low prices, in addition to what they call unfair competition from Ukraine, and the constraints of environmental regulations. EU elites are worried that the farmers' movement will boost anti-establishment parties in the European elections this June. The EU Commission has put forward proposals to ease the burden on farmers, but environmental groups say this is a short-term political tactic that undermines elements of the EU's own Green Deal – and will ultimately lead to more climate chaos for everybody, including farmers. We unpick this with the EU's Agriculture Commissioner, Janusz Wojciechowski.

We begin with the recent limitations on certain Ukrainian food imports into the EU – a measure aimed at quelling the farmers' protests, but also one that has led to deep disappointment in Ukraine. We also ask whether EU restrictions on Ukrainian wheat – a key export for the war-torn Ukrainian economy – could be activated in the future. This is something the EU has not ruled out.

"The most effective instrument will be the safeguard clause," Commissioner Wojciechowski answers. "If the import will be too high, it will always be possible to react. A member state, or a group of member states, can give the request to the European Commission, which will be obliged to react within two months and to establish all the necessary measures – if the wheat market will be difficult."

Environmental groups have accused the European Commission of jeopardising the EU's climate goals and its own Green Deal, by proposing to remove four 'GAEC' – 'Good Agricultural And Environmental Conditions' – that farmers up until now had to meet in order to receive EU subsidies.

"I am sure that we achieve more for the environment, for climate, by giving incentives to farmers, instead of mandatory requirements," Wojciechowsk says. "I have very positive observations about [existing] eco-schemes, under which we have directly paid farmers who have voluntarily introduced good practices, and achieved even better results than the minimum environmental standards required by regulations. We believe in [climate] incentives, not forcing farmers."

Despite major concerns expressed by the European Environment Agency, Greenpeace and other bodies, Wojciechowski is adamant that "we are not reducing our climate and environmental ambitions. What we are reducing are the conditionalities on farmers. This is a step towards the reality of farmers, and towards the difficult situation they have faced after the Covid pandemic and the consequences of the war on Ukraine. They are not able to plan their activity in a normal way."

Programme prepared by Sophie Samaille, Agnès Le Cossec and Isabelle Romero

Talking Europe hosts former Spanish foreign minister Arancha Gonzalez Laya, who is now dean of one of the top international relations schools in the world – the Paris School of International Affairs. We delve into the EU election campaign, EU competitiveness, transatlantic relations and the fragile political situation in Spain amid rising tensions over the Catalan issue.

Asked about the upcoming European elections, Gonzalez Laya points to polls suggesting that only 44 percent of French people will go to the polls.

"We should be asking ourselves, why is it that 60 percent of the French citizens will not go to vote? Bearing in mind that in the last election in 2019, we managed to increase the participation of French citizens by eight percentage points to reach 50 percent."

Whereas last time climate change was a big factor in people turning out to vote, Gonzalez Laya says that this time "we are debating wokeism and demography. We are debating migration. But we are not debating the economy. We are not debating climate change. We are not debating security and defence issues. We are not."

The former Spanish foreign minister has co-authored an op-ed in Foreign Affairs entitled "Trump-proofing Europe: How the continent can prepare for American abandonment." But will "Trump-proofing" come too late for Ukraine?

"In the longer term the US is becoming more isolationist," Gonzalez Laya responds, "which is one of the reasons why Europe needs to take its destiny into its own hands. That starts with Ukraine, which is a war on European soil. In the short term, we have to meet Ukraine's needs, both economic and military. But we have to do that while we also invest longer-term in the security and in the defence capabilities of Europe."

We then turn to the "new European competitiveness deal" that the April 17-18 EU summit has been calling for. "This matters a lot to businesses across the European Union. It matters a lot to businesses in France," Gonzalez Laya insists.

"There are three areas where the EU is less competitive than its big rivals in the US or China, and this is because Europeans are less integrated. Firstly, energy is too expensive in Europe compared to the US and other jurisdictions. Second is capital markets; our ability to invest the wealth that Europe has. It is not that we don't have wealth, it is that this wealth is invested in the US as opposed to being invested in the European Union. And the third area is technology. We have fragmented technology markets in the EU. So Europe is strong when Europe is integrated. Europe is weak when Europe is too fragmented into little national markets."

Talking Europe hosts the head of the largest political group in the European Parliament, the centre-right European People's Party. Manfred Weber, a prominent German CSU politician, is hoping that the June 9 EU elections will re-confirm the EPP's pre-eminent position, but he is cautious on the possibility of alliances with the hard-right ECR group. We also touch on the "Russiagate" and "Piepergate" controversies, the EPP's contentious plan to reform the EU's asylum system, as well as French President Emmanuel Macron's "unwise" – according to Weber – remarks about potentially sending French troops to Ukraine.

We begin with the "Russiagate" affair – allegations that some MEPs have been involved in Kremlin-backed media operations to influence public opinion ahead of the European elections on June 9. "Putin's puppets are doing the job for him in Europe, and we have to tell people, 'don't vote for them. Please vote for the democratic centre'," Weber says. "The most important thing is that we have full transparency. As an institution, we have to make sure that no money is involved."

If it comes to light that money was involved, should action be taken against the MEPs? "Absolutely. That must be judged. But at the end, it's also judgment by the voters," Weber answers.

We then discuss the EPP's controversial idea to relocate asylum seekers to third countries while their asylum claims are being processed – something that is not envisioned in the EU's current Asylum and Migration pact. The concept has been compared to the UK's contentious Rwanda scheme. "We have to lower the number [of arrivals into the EU], because the numbers are too high all over Europe, especially the numbers of illegal migrants," Weber says. "We are in favour of asylum. We are in favour of the Geneva Convention. But more than 50 percent of people arriving in Europe are not in this category. They are simply illegal migrants."

However, according to a March 2024 briefing from the European Parliament’s own research service, there are significantly more legal migrants than irregular migrants in the EU.

Nonetheless, "illegal migrants have to be refused. They must leave European territory," Weber affirms. "This is what people from all over Europe are expecting from us. We are not as radical as the extreme right that doesn't accept any kind of foreigner any more. We need foreigners, especially for working places. And we are not naive like the left is, to open the door to everyone. We are the centre-right and we are the balanced approach."

Weber is bullish on the EPP’s prospects in the EU elections.

"I'm quite comfortable in my starting point for the campaign because we won nearly all national elections in the last years. I took over as president of the EPP with only seven prime ministers. Today we have 13 prime ministers in our ranks. Socialists only have four. Liberals under the leadership of Macron have five. EPP has 13. The centre-right is coming back."

Asked about Macron's repeated assertion that he might send French ground troops to Ukraine at some point, Weber says: "I think that was not a wise thing to say, because that was splitting the West. [NATO chief] Stoltenberg had to clarify that we don't send troops; we will not be part of the active war. And the German chancellor did the same with the idea to not send Taurus missiles from Germany to Ukraine. He was splitting his own Berlin government. He was splitting German society. He was splitting the European Union. So both leaders, in Paris and in Berlin, are currently dividing and not unifying. And that's not good for Europe."

We also touch on the "Piepergate" affair that has rocked EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, the EPP candidate in the upcoming EU elections. Asked about the allegation of nepotism in the appointment of a senior Commission official, Weber says: "There should be full transparency and full openness on this. Ursula von der Leyen will be ready to answer all the questions during the campaign. We are ready to show up with our ideas. Renew is not doing so. Macron is not doing so. I stand for a democratic Europe where we have candidates, where we have a programme, where we have a lively debate about the future. And I would love to see the same from the liberals."

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Sophie Samaille and Isabelle Romero

The Nordic model encompasses a strong welfare state, protection of workers through collective bargaining, good pension schemes and low levels of poverty. This system has gone hand-in-hand with a progressive approach to issues like gender equality and maternity or paternity leave. But the social model has come under pressure from the trends affecting Europe as a whole, such as Covid debt, inflation and the cost-of-living crisis, the demands of the green transition and – some would say – pressure from migration. We focus on the Nordic model as part of our series on groups of countries or regions within the EU.

Programme prepared by Isabelle Romero, Perrine Desplats and Sophie Samaille