Talking Europe

Striking a balance between regulation and letting businesses grow is always a difficult thing for policymakers to do. But has the EU veered into over-regulation? Our guest argues that red tape in some areas is holding back EU-based companies, and is partly responsible for those firms losing ground to their competitors in other parts of the world. But he is adamant that finding a solution to this does not mean having to renege on the EU's key policy initiatives, such as the European Green Deal. Markus Beyrer is the director general of BusinessEurope, which represents national employers' associations and companies.

"We have a problem," Beyrer tells FRANCE 24's Armen Georgian. "Ninety percent of our members say that their business location is worse off than three years before. We see that more investment happens outside Europe than in Europe. We see that we are lagging behind in growth compared to our major competitors," he explains.

"As far as growth is concerned, you know that Europe will grow by 0.5 percent this year, the US by 2.5 and China, of course, even higher," Beyrer goes on. "But more importantly than this, if you look at the last 10 years, in seven out of these 10 years, the US growth was significantly larger than in Europe."

Beyrer admits that the number one reason for the stagnant situation today is high energy prices. But he says that BusinessEurope's members report a "regulatory tsunami" and "too much bureaucracy falling on our members in the last 10 years". As an example, he cites the EU's Corporate Due Diligence Directive (CDDD), which has added reporting requirements on companies.

"On the CDDD, we have always been ready to take up our responsibilities. But we have also said that the solutions need to be workable, and need to work for companies. And what we have on the table now – which is the result of the compromise that has been found in Europe a couple of weeks ago – is simply not workable, and imposes obligations on European companies in a unilateral way. The risk of that is that some companies might leave markets in Asia or in Africa."

So is Beyrer implying that the answer is to push back on the EU's various pieces of legislation aimed at protecting the environment, biodiversity and workers' rights?

"Well, no, the solution is to find a balance in these pieces of legislation," Beyrer says.

"We have always supported the Green Deal. And we have always supported the targets of the Green Deal," he affirms. "But what we are saying is that we are losing out as far as global competitiveness is concerned, and therefore we will need to complement the Green Deal with an Industrial Deal."

Beyrer explains what that Industrial Deal might look like. "We need to not only create the green jobs, but to green the whole industrial value chains, because we will only be successful if we are able to have successful value chains in Europe. So, to bring the windmills as an example, it's very important that we invest in renewable energies. It's important that we produce the technology. And it's also important where the steel to produce these windmills comes from and where the turbines are produced."

Programme prepared by Sophie Samaille, Perrine Desplats, Paul Guianvarc'h and Isabelle Romero

We dive into the heated EU election campaign in Romania, where the centrist Renew Europe bloc finds itself squeezed by a joint list of the government’s grand coalition on the one hand, and a resurgent far right on the other hand. We also look at Romania’s efforts to become a core member of the European family – something that has not happened yet, as the country was only partially admitted to the border-free Schengen travel area at the end of March.

Produced by Isabelle Romero, Sophie Samaille et Perrine Desplats

The EU’s proposed defence reforms are not going to make a difference to Ukraine in the short term, warns Camille Grand, NATO's former assistant secretary general for defence investment. Both the European Defence Industrial Strategy (EDIS) and the European Defence Industry Programme (EDIP) "are going to be very useful in the longer term, provided that the money comes in 2028, which is more or less the cycle that the EU is announcing", Grand tells Talking Europe. He talks about Ukraine's ammunition shortage – a subject on which he put forward a 10-point plan at the European Council on Foreign Relations, where he is distinguished policy fellow. We also discuss how NATO has evolved since the start of the war, and the ways in which, according to Grand, NATO and the EU can – and should – work together more closely.

On EDIS and EDIP, "there is neither the money nor the support of the Member States and industry to allow those initiatives to make a difference today to Ukrainians, or to rebuild our own stockpiles," Grand says.

"According to the EU treaties, defence remains a competency for the member states," he goes on. "As the Commission affirms its intention to become an important player in this domain and hopefully with significant money on the table, there will be a tension with the member states who will want to see what's the added value of the Commission, and how is that going to fit with their own priorities and requirements."

Grand also addresses the recent announcement by France's minister of the armed forces, who said that the French government might force firms to put defence orders before civilian ones if manufacturing does not speed up. "This is really about critical components and subcomponents. If you think of ammunition production or missile production, there are some components which might be microelectronics or very basic things like black powder, that need to be prioritised for defence needs," Grand explains. The French authorities are making "a fair request", Grand says. "You can't say, on the one hand, 'we're in a war economy', and on the other hand say, 'oh, it's a pity that some of the ammunition production is not available because we are competing with civilian needs'."

On the possible return of Donald Trump to the White House and Europeans "Trump-proofing" their security, Grand says: "We have to prepare for a whole range of scenarios. And we have to be serious about defence over a decade. So that is being able to act with possibly less American commitment, but also, simply, to face a degraded security environment no matter who is in the White House. I think this is within reach. The Europeans have already increased their defence expenditure quite significantly. We had only three allies at 2 percent [of GDP spending on defence] in 2014 at NATO. Now we have close to 20 this year. European allies have turned the corner on this. But it now needs to be sustained."

Grand argues that there is still a lot of room for NATO and the EU to cooperate more closely. "There is institutional competition, which is absolutely not useful in today's environment. Both organisations need to turn to each other and see what they can bring to the table and how they can support each other. It's a good thing that the EU is more active, but the EU needs to work more closely with NATO. Both the EU and NATO need to be much more relaxed about how they work together."

Programme prepared by Sophie Samaille, Perrine Desplats and Paul Guianvarc'h

The war in Ukraine is well into its third year, and Russia’s advances on the battlefield have caused jitters across the EU, particularly in the countries bordering Russia that used to be part of the Soviet bloc. Security-related themes – not just military questions, but energy security too – are high on the agenda in the EU election campaign in the Baltic states. We discuss what's at stake with three MEPs.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Sophie Samaille and Isabelle Romero

Estonia's prime minister insists there is a crisis in European defence that needs to be solved now. Kaja Kallas tells Talking Europe that private funding for the acquisition of lethal weapons is blocked, which means the "vibrant" tech sector cannot be engaged. She also urges EU members to consider jointly raising capital on the markets to help Ukraine, which she says will be cheaper than doing so individually. We also discuss Russia putting Kallas on a "wanted" list over the removal or destruction of Soviet-era monuments in Estonia. By invoking Russian domestic laws that don't apply in Estonia, the Kremlin is signalling that "Estonia is not a real country", Kallas says.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Agnès Le Cossec and Sophie Samaille (Footage: Luke Brown and Alix Le Bourdon)

Disinformation is a central concern for the EU, as it swings into full campaign mode for the European elections of June 6-9. There's no shortage of threats: from cyberattacks to fake news aimed at sowing confusion in the minds of EU citizens and voters. In this episode we look at the various disinformation techniques being used, as well as who the most vulnerable targets are, and what is being done to counter such attacks – not just by the European institutions, but also by non-governmental bodies and civil society.

 

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Sophie Samaille and Isabelle Romero

Talking Europe interviews the chair of the European Parliament's foreign affairs committee, David McAllister. He believes the European Union has been too cautious for too long, and has not proactively defined and defended its interests in the world. He argues that one way to achieve that is to move to a fully-fledged Defence Union over the coming years. McAllister is a German Christian Democrat and a staunch supporter of European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen, who is hoping to lead the Commission for a second five-year term.

"What we will see in the next years in the European Union is that we will take concrete steps towards a European Defence Union," McAllister says. "That means ramping up our defence industry production in Europe. We have to do more research together. We need to purchase much more together. We need to spend our taxpayers' money more efficiently. Let's try and do as much as possible at a European level. At the moment, 80 percent of defence procurement is still taking place at a purely national level. I think there's a lot of room for improvement. That's why I also welcome proposals which have now been made by different political parties in Europe, for a European Commissioner with a dedicated portfolio for security and defence. We also need a defence ministers' format. At the EU level, the main focus should be on establishing a European single market for the defence industry."

McAllister elaborates on the role that a future EU Security and Defence Commissioner would play. "The fields this man or this woman would be dealing with are shared on the one hand with the High Representative [for foreign and security policy] and, on the other hand, with the Commissioner who holds the industrial portfolio," McAllister explains. "It's about bringing the 27 EU member states together. Planning activities and also coordinating closely with NATO. The European Defence Union, which we are working on, is like a puzzle with 5,000 pieces. The frame has been set in recent years with a permanent structured cooperation with the European Defence Agency, and with the European Defence Fund. But now we need to have more pieces and put them together in an intelligent way."

We put it to McAllister that, ideals aside, the EU does not speak with one voice – as the Gaza crisis has shown. "Well, the European Union is a family of 27 sovereign nations," he answers. "And on certain fields we have different views. For instance, on the Israel-Palestine conflict or on Serbia and Kosovo.  But we also need the tools to implement our common foreign and security policy. The soft power tools are already there. They are available. But we need to have more hard power tools. The aim is for us as the European Union to become a real global player. We are a global payer. For instance, we give by far the most for development cooperation. But we are not a global player. We do not have the same level and eyesight as other players like the United States or China."

We ask for McAllister's reaction to EU Commissioner Thierry Breton criticising his own boss, President von der Leyen, and questioning whether she has the support of her own political party, the EPP.

"I was quite surprised about Mr. Breton's tweet," McAllister responds. "Ursula von der Leyen got more than 80 percent in a secret ballot. Look, the big difference with the Socialists is that they nominated their lead candidate in an open vote. I mean, it's easy to get 100 percent if it's by acclamation. We had a secret ballot, and she got an honest result. At the party congress in Bucharest, very few national delegations said that they were sceptical. The huge majority is carrying her, and I'm very convinced that she will be the European Commission president for another five years, because she's done a good job the first five years," he concludes.

Programme prepared by Sophie Samaille, Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

The Legal Affairs committee (JURI) of the European Parliament has just voted to sue the European Commission for unfreezing billions of euros in funding for Hungary late last year. They say it's high time to protect European taxpayers' money from misuse. Meanwhile, Warsaw and the European Commission have unveiled an action plan that involves legal reforms in Poland and ending the EU's infringement procedures against the country, which date back to the previous conservative government. We discuss these issues with two MEPs.

Programme produced by Sophie Samaille, Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

In the spotlight this week in our whistle-stop debate series featuring each of the EU’s 27 member states ahead of June’s European elections: Italy. Europe’s third-biggest economic power has seen a growing rivalry between the right-wing Brothers of Italy party, led by Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, and her even further right coalition partner, Deputy Premier Matteo Salvini, who heads the far-right League party. When Meloni led a hard-right coalition to power in October 2022 – becoming Italy’s first female premier – most headlines were about her party’s rise from neo-fascist roots, and her record of bashing the European Union and migrants. Since then, she has sought to fashion herself as a more mainstream conservative, working with fellow EU leaders, and staunchly supporting Ukraine in its fight against Russia. Today, Italy – and Meloni – are front and centre ahead of European elections in which right-wing parties are poised to see big gains.

Just days after French President Emmanuel Macron provoked a backlash among allies by declaring he could not rule out sending Western troops to Ukraine, a senior minister has doubled down on the message, saying Europe must thwart Vladimir Putin before he presses his military drive further into Europe. “Vladimir Putin will not stop in Ukraine, so this is the reason why we need to make him fail,” Jean-Noël Barrot, the newly appointed French Minister Delegate for Europe told FRANCE 24.