Talking to Mormons

Hebrews is such a great book and can be as challenging and inspirational to study as Romans and Galatians.  It is uncertain who the author is, but it is assumed that Paul wrote it – about AD 67-69.  The book’s primary aim is to show the Jewish converts of Christianity that the Levitical priesthood which was so important to them, and their culture, and their temple – was all but a shadow of the Messiah – Jesus Christ.  For this reason, understanding the content of the book of Hebrews goes a long way in seeing how far Mormonism is off in their doctrinal claims of priesthood restoration Here we go!  Hebrews 1:1 “God, who at sundry (various) times and in divers manners (different ways) spake in time past unto the fathers (our ancestors) by the prophets.”  What different ways did God speak to prophets in the past?  He spoke to Moses through the burning bush.  He spoke to Job from a whirlwind.  He spoke to Joseph in dreams.  He spoke to Joshua through an angel.  He spoke to Samuel as a voice in the night.  He spoke to Elijah in a still small voice.  He spoke to Daniel in a vision.  None of these men knew each other, yet what God revealed to them perfectly meshed, together in the narrative of the Old and New Testaments.  While God has spoken to the prophets in the past, Verse 2 “Hath in THESE last days spoken unto us by his Son (Jesus), whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (Jesus) made the worlds.”  HOW has God “spoken to us by His Son?”  Jesus revealed the invisible person of God – through being perfect in his mortal body.  Through the prophets during the preceding 1500 years, God revealed fragmentary revelations of Himself.  But when Jesus came, He was the complete and full revelation of God.  Verse 3 “Who (Jesus) being the brightness of his (God’s) glory, and the express image of his (God’s) person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins (paid for our sins), sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.”  Mormonism interprets that to mean God also is in a body of flesh and – that Jesus is an exact physical replica of His Father on high.  First of all the Greek word for “express image” is “charkter” – the character of His person.  In this sense, the word relates to characteristics not of physical form.  God is love – Jesus is love in physical form, etc.  Jesus said in John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”  Paul says in Colossians 1:15 that Jesus is the image of the “invisible God.”  Getting back – remember Hebrews is trying to build a case that Christ Jesus is better than all they have had in the past.   Verse 3 finishes by saying – Jesus “sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.”  He was sitting because His work – THE work – was done.  See, the singular high priest working in the temple never sat, because the work and ordinances and rituals were never done.  Here the writer points out that Jesus is our ONLY high priest who completed all the work once and for all – and that Jesus sits down because His work is finished.  I want to point out that the phrase “right hand of God” is a Hebraism that describes a place of power and position.  Being on “the right hand” means the person or being is in a position of power and honor.  Mormonism teaches that, if God the Father did not have a physical body of flesh and bones, then how could Jesus Christ have possibly sat down at “the right hand” of the Father?  If the Father has a right hand, then He must have a body of flesh of bones?  Once again, the Mormons are reading an idea into the text that is not there.  In the Jewish mind, the right hand referred to the place of honor.  It is simply a metaphorical expression affirming that Christ was in a position of authority.In Hebrews Chapter 2, the writer continues to bear witness to the Jews as to who Christ is – and that He is better than prophets and angels.  He again use

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” 

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” 

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” 

Paul’s two letters to Timothy were written around AD 64.  Timothy was a young missionary companion of Paul and was treated tenderly like a son.  Timothy’s father was a Greek and his mother (Eunice) was Jewish.  Paul had left Timothy in Ephesus to watch over the body of believers.  In 1 Timothy, Paul gives him advice concerning his leadership duties and warns about the sinful behaviors common in society at that time.1 Timothy 1:1-2 “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour (He is a saving God), and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope.  Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.”   Paul starts out by warning Timothy about those in Ephesus who were teaching false doctrines, fables (or falsehoods), endless genealogies, and questioning rather than godly edifying the body of Christ.  These false teachers were trying to reintroduce elements of the Law of Moses back into the Gospel of Grace.   Then Paul reminds us of his former life as a Pharisee.  And, how grateful he is to have been rescued FROM HIMSELF by God and called into the ministry.   1 Timothy 1:12-14 “And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.  And the GRACE OF OUR LORD was exceedingly abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.”  Then Paul summarizes and personalizes the Good News: Jesus didn’t come merely to show us how to live a better life or to challenge us to be better people.  He came to offer us salvation that leads to eternal life.  1:15-16 “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom, I am chief (one of the worst).  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy (forgiveness), that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering (incredible patience), for a pattern (or example) to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.”  The next verse clarifies the nature of God.  Verse 17 “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever.  Amen.”  God is unseen – we cannot see Him or touch Him – He is Spirit.  He alone is God.1 Timothy chapter 2:4-6 “Who (speaking of God) will have ALL men to be saved (not just some elect), and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all (who paid the cost of redeeming us from sin), to be testified in due time (according to God’s plan).”  Christians understand that Christ Jesus is our mediator because He is God.  There is only one God; there is only one Mediator; that Mediator gave himself as a ransom – He paid the price.  There is nothing more to do – except believe that He accomplished it all in our behalf and simply accept the gift of salvation.  Then, Paul reassures Timothy and the church in Ephesus that Verse 7 “Whereunto (to whom) I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity (or truth).”   When Paul says he was “ordained” it doesn’t mean what the LDS interpret it to mean.  In Mormonism, to be ordained is to have Melchizedek priesthood holders lay hands on a male person’s head and confer authority and an office – in this case Apostleship.  However, the Greek word for ordained means “to appoint” – without involving the laying on of hands.  Paul, as we know, was ordained or appointed by no one else than the resurrection Lord.  The rest of Chapter Two can be a source of contention and hurt, if not read in the larger context of the scriptures.  Paul was counseling Timothy with respect to rather drastic local problems where women were being very contentious and effected by

Just a reminder – that Paul’s epistles are arranged in the Bible according to length rather than in chronological order.  Paul’s first and second letters to the Thessalonian believers were written around AD 50-52 from Corinth during Paul’s second missionary journey.  He and his companion missionaries had recently been driven out of Thessalonica, in what is known today as northeastern Greece, by an angry mob of Jews (See Acts 17:1-15).  After they were driven out, they journeyed to Berea, then to Athens and from there to Corinth – where they met Silas and Timothy.  Timothy was then sent back to Thessalonica to check on the church.  After a time, Timothy returned to Corinth and reported conditions among the Thessalonian believers to Paul.  Paul then wrote First and Second Thessalonians to them.  These were the first letters written by Paul which are included in our New Testament.  And most scholars say they preceded the writing of the gospels.   Paul begins this letter by introducing the names of two men who labored with him as missionaries – Silvanus (also known as Silas) and Timotheus (or Timothy) – “unto the church of the Thessalonians.”  As I have pointed out in previous lessons – there were many references for the primitive church.  There was not one true name the church was called.  In fact, the Greek word for church is “ekklesia” meaning “assembly.”  These people were part of the church – or ekklesia – or assembly in Thessalonica that belonged to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.  Paul discusses the missionary work he and his companions have done and some of the persecutions they endured in the process.  Paul complements the believers in Thessalonica as he speaks of their faith and charity.  He will warn them against getting caught up in sins accepted by the culture in which they lived.  Let’s pick up where Chapter 4 ends.  Verses 13-18 “ But I would not have you to be ignorant (uninformed), brethren, concerning them which are asleep (those who have died), that ye sorrow not (don’t mourn for them), even as others which have no hope (like others do who do not believe as we do).  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus (those who died who were faithful to Jesus) will God bring (to heaven) with him (Christ).  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (have any advantage over) them which are asleep (have died already).  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (at the Second Coming) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (possibly Michael the archangel), and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ (the righteous dead) shall rise (be resurrected) first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (some people call this the rapture) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”  The primary purpose of this passage is to provide encouragement to those Christians whose loved ones had died before the Lord was to return.   They seemed to fear that their dead brothers and sisters were going to miss out on everything the church was expecting to receive when Jesus returned.   Paul was reassuring those Thessalonian believers that not only would some of THEM still be living when Jesus returned – but that the dead in Christ would rise first – and those saints who are living will be “changed,” all “in the twinkling of an eye.”  (See 1 Corinthians 15:51-52).  Paul made these promises nearly 2,000 years ago.  They were promises to the Thessalonians – not to us, today!  All the New Testament scriptures point to the Second Coming of the Lord in AD 70.   Peter, James, John, and Paul proclaimed the same messages that Jesus preached.  The harmony of the Bible is beautiful!  You can compare what Jesus taught in Matthew 24 with what Paul taught here in 1 Thessalon

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” 

Let me tell you what I’ve read in LDS church history about this Zelph character. Joseph Smith and about 200 men, along with women and children calling themselves Zion’s Camp were marching from Kirtland, Ohio to Jackson County Missouri to redeem Zion. During their travels, on June 3, 1834, they came upon an earthen mound near the bank of the Illinois River.  

“The brethren procured a shovel and a hoe, and removing the earth to the depth of about one foot, discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire, and between his ribs the stone point of a Lamanitish arrow, which evidently produced his death.  Elder Burr Riggs retained the arrow.  The contemplation of the scenery around us produced peculiar sensations in our bosoms; and subsequently the visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us was a WHITE Lamanite, a large, thickset man, and a man of God.”“His name was Zelph.  He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains.  The curse was taken from Zelph, or at least, in part – one of his thigh bones was broken by a stone flung from a sling, while in battle, years before his death.  He was killed in battle by the arrow found among his ribs, during the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites.”

History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, volume 2, pages 79 and 80

And it’s supported by primary source material from the diaries kept by members of Zion’s Camp, including three future Presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball, and George A. Smith.  There is remarkable harmony between all the accounts. And, who else but the prophet Joseph Smith would know that some ordinary-looking Indian bones belonged to a ‘white Lamanite named Zelph’?That would prove that the Book of Mormon took place in North America and not in Central America – as other scholars have argued.If Zelph, a righteous man, was fighting under a great prophet-general in the last battles between the Nephites and Lamanites, and if that great prophet-general was known from the Rocky Mountains to the Hill Cumorah or eastern area, then some of those battles, and evidently the final battles took place within the borders of what is now the United States.   It is logical to assume that the Hill Cumorah located in New York, where Joseph dug up the plates that Moroni buried, must be the same Hill Cumorah that was the location of the two massive battles described in the Book of Mormon.That’s right.  The hill where supposedly a total of 2.2 million Lamanite, Nephite, and Jaredite warriors battled to their deaths using steel swords and other weapons of war.  If that is the case, then since no evidence of these massive battles has never been found in Cumorah, New York – no evidence of bones or weapons – those stories might be mere fiction.  If those two key stories are fiction – then it stands to reason the entire Book of Mormon may not be real history either.  But Joseph was a prophet and he would never have fabricated the Book of Mormon. Right? You know what I think?   The story of Zelph – even though it’s outside the narrative of the Book of Mormon – comes from a tendency of Joseph Smith to make up revelation on the fly to suit his purposes and to bolster faith in his followers.

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”