这一期，Frank 聊芝加哥 Booth 的 part-time MBA、离开西雅图的决定、旅行作为一种"研究"，以及向父母出柜之后，如何重新回答"什么是有意义的生活"。

时间轴

开场 00:00 本集精华预告：那句说不出口的话

第一章｜现在：芝加哥、Booth MBA、和一个想了很多年的决定

00:01:42 芝加哥大学 Booth 的 part-time MBA：quarter 制下的双城生活

00:03:38 被 Meta 裁员之后：为什么读 MBA 的念头，比裁员早了很多年

00:04:03 放弃大厂收入、倒贴钱读书，这笔账怎么算

第二章｜两个"家"：西雅图与纽约

00:10:23 来美国的第一个城市：为什么西雅图至今像"家乡州"

00:14:15 住在时代广场与中央公园之间，是什么体验

00:15:15 晚上10点以后的中央公园夜跑

第三章｜62个国家，大部分一个人

00:24:50 "海上学府"：一艘船、一个学期、十六个国家

00:30:26 62个国家之后，旅行对他变成了什么

00:43:23 澳洲、墨尔本与悉尼：宜居城市的比较学

00:49:17 从迈阿密开到奥兰多：被低估的美国公路

第四章｜恋爱、身份，与"出不出柜"

01:01:00 纽约的约会文化：对谁都不容易

01:12:14 第一次恋爱，在美国："在中国我没有出柜"

01:14:10 那些连同事都不告诉的人

01:23:49 出柜与否：每个人有自己的时间表

第五章｜一段感情，和离开西雅图的决定

01:41:02 一段同居的感情，教会他的事

01:56:02 是什么把他拉去了纽约

01:59:12 "再住30年，我受得了吗？"：决定离开的瞬间

02:04:32 Meta 时期的纽约："这就是我想要的生活"

第六章｜旅行的意义，与向父母出柜

02:07:05 62国之后：旅行到底改变了什么

02:13:18 没有对象，为什么也要出柜

02:19:03 那些对父母"说谎"的朋友

02:24:01 妈妈的话，和"还是一个比较好的父亲"

02:27:00 想象过的生活

02:29:19 结语：让我觉得有意义的东西

关于本期嘉宾

Frank Chen｜资深数据与分析工程师，芝加哥大学 Booth 商学院 MBA 在读Frank 的职业路径穿过了过去十年最重要的几个平台：在西雅图起步，先后任职于 Porch 与 Spin；随后加入亚马逊，从 BI 工程师做到 BI Engineer II，支持北美、欧洲与新兴市场的上千个履约项目；之后在纽约 Meta 担任数据工程师四年，深度参与 Instagram 与 Messenger 团队，并作为 Instagram Channels 上线的数据工程主要负责人之一——该产品两年内达到1.5亿日活。他目前在 Backstage 负责数据建模、产品分析与 GDPR/CPRA 合规，同时以 Dean's Honor List 的成绩在读 Booth part-time MBA。

工作之外，他独自走过62个国家中的大多数：在纽约晚上10点后的中央公园跑步，在里约清晨封路的科帕卡巴纳慢跑。对他来说，旅行不是观光，更像一场漫长的研究——寻找一个也许某天愿意留下来的地方。

After two decades of proving himself — Amazon, Meta/Instagram, and 62 countries traveled mostly alone — Frank Chen slows down to ask what a genuinely meaningful life might actually contain.The search for home: treating travel less as tourism than as research — a long, patient search for a place worth staying.Coming out to his parents, and the years-long process of learning to be seen as his authentic self.Leaving Seattle, choosing Chicago Booth: a deliberate bet that the next chapter should look different from the last.

About TalktoJANE

www.talktojane.com

Listen to TalktoJANE

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@talktojanejin

Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talktojane-%E5%AF%B9%E8%AF%9D%E8%BA%AB%E8%BE%B9%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%BA/id1595947581

Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/0dAQa7ij0c3bvjFXHecDRm

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BiliBili https://space.bilibili.com/561890000

#海外华人 #出柜 #人生选择 #旅行 #大厂 #MBA #LGBTQ #ComingOut #ChineseDiaspora #SoloTravel #MeaningfulLife #CareerChange #TalkToJane #podcast

At life's inflection points, You are not alone.

在人生的转折点，你并不孤单。

talktojane.com | TalktoJANE

Episode Highlights

Why would someone doing an intense Wharton MBA prioritize hosting ramen pop-ups over traditional corporate networking?

"If you told me that I can work at your place, I will quit my job at Meta."

How a cold email led to staging at a Michelin-star restaurant in Copenhagen.

What happens when the safety net of Big Tech's "Product-Market Fit" is stripped away at an early-stage startup?

Manually pumping and labeling 13,000 bottles of soap by hand: the unglamorous reality of launching a premium brand alone.

Balancing a full-time role at Reddit with a growing side business: Why keeping your 9-to-5 might be the smartest way to fund your startup.

Timestamps

Chapter 1 | The Corporate Exit: Finding Passion Beyond the Tech Bubble

00:00:00 — Episode Highlights

00:02:43 — Choosing ramen pop-ups over traditional Wharton MBA networking.

00:06:24 — The bold email to top restaurants: "If you told me that I can work at your place, I will quit my job at Meta."

00:08:34 — The breaking point at Meta: Witnessing a new hire get laid off before their very first day.

00:16:16 — Innovation in high-end dining: How the best restaurants A/B test their recipes.

00:27:03 — The pressure of perfection: Screwing up a dessert in a Michelin-star kitchen versus making a mistake in tech.

Chapter 2 | The Startup Reality: Losing the Big Tech Safety Net

00:32:09 — Joining Crème: The "perfect bridge" combining professional tech product skills with a deep passion for food.

00:37:04 — Startup vs. Big Tech: Navigating the rudderless feeling of trying to find product-market fit from scratch.

00:43:03 — The Founder's Dilemma: Balancing a meaningful original vision with the harsh business reality of a pivot.

Chapter 3 | Building Naomi: From Garage Chemistry to 13,000 Bottles

00:50:06 — The pivot to CPG: The birth of Naomi, a premium, garlic-removing hand soap designed for home cooks.

00:58:32 — Treating chemistry like a tech product: A/B testing soap formulas in a home kitchen.

01:13:14 — The unglamorous solo grind: Pumping 13,000 bottles of soap manually with one arm.

01:14:13 — Selling the first bottle: Why founders should launch even if they are embarrassed by the imperfections of their first product.

01:30:00 — The scale-up struggle: The agonizing one-year wait to transition production from the garage to a real manufacturer.

Chapter 4 | The Dual Life: Managing a 9-to-5 and a Startup

01:43:02 — Working as a Principal PMM at Reddit while running Naomi: Setting up systems that don't require 9-to-5 attention.

01:45:51 — The power of a paycheck: Using a full-time salary for cash, stability, and the ability to delegate startup operations.

01:52:40 — Career ambition and taking the leap: How to navigate the fear of the unknown when jumping into a new venture.

01:57:42 — The story behind the name "Naomi" and the 5-year vision for building a cooking lifestyle brand.

Meet the Guest

Preston Landers is a product marketer, founder, and self-taught chef who has built a career out of parallel obsessions: tech and food. While rising through the ranks at Meta, he spent his free time staging at world-renowned restaurants. This dual passion drove him to send a cold email that landed him a role in the kitchen of Alouette, a Michelin-star restaurant in Copenhagen.

After returning to the U.S. as Head of Product at a home-cooking app, Preston is now a Principal Product Marketing Manager at Reddit. Alongside his full-time career in Big Tech, he is the founder of Naomi—a premium personal care brand designed specifically for home cooks. What began as a four-month A/B testing project in his kitchen, has grown into an award-winning brand recognized by Fast Company and Bon Appétit. In this episode, Preston discusses the quiet arithmetic of running two careers at once, why the best products come from obsession rather than efficiency, and what it takes to take a leap into the unknown when you have every reason to stay.

Talk to JANE | You are not alone

talktojane.com

Talked to my former Meta coworker about the premium hand soap brand he created out of his garage. during business school he was doing ramen pop-ups and emailing Michelin restaurants offering to quit Meta.

Episode HighlightsHow does growing up with a concert pianist shape your definition of hard work?What happens when your highly-optimized "dream role" turns out to be an underwhelming trap?How can sensory memories anchor us against the anxiety of Silicon Valley's obsession with future optimization?Why being a "jack of all trades" gives you a strategic edge in highly specialized tech environments.The difference between the exhausting "aftertaste" of algorithmic consumption versus intentional creation. TimestampsChapter 1 | The Sheet Music & The Sensory Anchors00:00:00 — Episode Highlight: Playing the wrong sheet music perfectly by ear.00:00:58 — Born to an Egyptian concert pianist and a bohemian lawyer: Redefining "hard work".00:30:47 — The burden of classical training vs. finding freedom in a grunge acoustic guitar.00:40:00 — Using sensory anchors to stop over-optimizing the future.01:00:51 — The "aftertaste" of doomscrolling vs. the flow state of playing an instrument. Chapter 2 | The Geography of Ambition01:11:28 — Surviving France’s brutal 50% cut-off prep school system.01:24:14 — Moving to London: How cultural diversity builds empathy and awareness.01:30:23 — Summer jobs in Napa Valley and the initial spark for San Francisco.01:34:04 — Refusing to lower the bar: Why stepping away from music was a sign of respect.01:44:02 — Navigating a UC Berkeley engineering cohort as the only non-engineer. Chapter 3 | The Career Optimization Trap01:52:05 — Rational planning vs. intuition: Are you secretly playing your career by ear?01:54:29 — Building the Product Operations team at Pandora Radio.02:00:53 — The Corporate Strategy trap: When the "dream role" is just building slide decks.02:12:24 — Pivoting to Pledge 1%: Using the "jack of all trades" skillset at a tech philanthropy startup. About the GuestNagui Louis YassaNagui was born and raised in France to a multicultural family featuring an Egyptian-born concert pianist father and a lawyer-turned-homemaker mother. He received his education at the London School of Economics (LSE) before moving to the U.S. to earn a Master's in Engineering from UC Berkeley. His career in the tech industry includes six years at Pandora Radio, where he built product operations teams before transitioning into Corporate Strategy during the company's acquisition. He later ran Strategy Operations for Pledge 1%, a nimble startup spearheaded by Salesforce that sits at the intersection of tech and corporate philanthropy. He has also previously worked at Meta. Outside of his corporate trajectory, he is a dedicated self-taught musician with a deep passion for acoustic guitars, audio production, and the history of vintage instruments.Support TalktoJANEwww.talktojane.comListen to TalktoJANEYouTube: / @talktojanejinApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talktojane-%E5%AF%B9%E8%AF%9D%E8%BA%AB%E8%BE%B9%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%BA/id1595947581小宇宙: https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/podcast/61c236061773c5744af3f2dc喜马拉雅: https://m.ximalaya.com/album/54808040BiliBili: https://space.bilibili.com/561890000Tags#TalkToJane #podcast #CareerAwakening #BigTechLife #CorporateStrategy #SiliconValley #CareerPivot #Intentionality #MentalHealth #PlayingByEar #TechCareer #PandoraRadio #Meta #WorkLifeBalance #PhilanthropyYou are not alone at the turning points of your life.talktojane.com | TalktoJANE

本期看点：

这串耀眼的大厂履历，有多少是你自己的选择，有多少只是被惯性推着走？

为什么在Amazon、Meta做了那么多事，却始终有一种"做的东西没有意义"的感觉？

大厂的empire building机制，到底是怎么运转的？

感恩节在冰岛，加入Meta两个月，失眠、喝酒，半夜给上级写了一封很长的信——究竟经历了什么？

创业的风险比打工小——这个结论，背后的逻辑是什么？

"Career"这个概念，是不是这个世纪最大的谎言？

你的那个"觉醒的moment"，是什么时候、怎么发生的，之后的你回得去吗？

时间轴

第一章｜懵懂的推手：一命二运，哪有什么规划

00:02:20 — 康奈尔、BCG、Amazon、Meta、腾讯——这串履历有多少是你的选择，有多少只是被推着走？

00:05:21 — 物理→哲学→玄学，是什么trigger让你走到了科学解释不了的地方?

00:11:34 — 你的世俗成就，努力和选择到底占几分？剩下那部分是什么？

00:34:35 — 在北美读大学，你是有目标感的人，还是懵懂的人？

00:41:16 — 博士期间根本无法focus做研究——是不感兴趣，还是其实早就知道自己不属于学术界？

00:43:24 — BCG实习如鱼得水，却选了Amazon——一个人为什么会主动放弃一个已经擅长的领域？

第二章｜大厂真相：什么是无意义的工作

00:16:43 — 大厂里的empire building、屎上雕花、无意义工作——这套机制是怎么运转的，资本为什么不去阻止它？

00:26:09 — 在Amazon、Meta、腾讯这样的环境里工作，内心真实的感受是什么？

00:49:24 — 加入Meta两个月，感恩节在冰岛，失眠，半夜给上级写长信——究竟发生了什么？

00:51:06 — Marketplace这套注定要被清洗的剧本——你是一开始就看清了，还是离开之后才看清？

01:09:31 — 在中国大厂有"主场感"，在美国大厂没有——这两种感受的差距有多大？

01:19:29 — 被裁之后非常struggle的人往往是因为没有Plan B——这是他们的错，还是这套系统本来就是这么设计的？

第三章｜觉醒：Career Ladder是否是创造出来的concept

01:23:50 — 你说创业的风险比打工小，百分之百——这个逻辑是什么？

01:28:16 — 裸奔了几年，到真正开始赚钱？那个"我可以全职干这件事了"的moment是什么？

01:34:05 — 开始收费这个坎——难在哪？是内心那个"我的东西不值这个钱"的假设吗？

01:36:10 — 一个人创业versus有鸭哥——体验有什么不一样？那些压力和喜悦，你现在有出口吗？

01:50:46 — 钱没有太大冲击，好评也没有太多感觉——那什么在给你energy，让你一直做下去？

01:57:25 — 生了孩子之后，对career的野心从100降到0，具体发生了什么？

02:00:13 — 你的那个moment：发现"Career是这个世纪最大的谎言"——那一刻你在哪，是什么触发的，之后的你回得去吗？

02:12:16 — 创业真的能缓解焦虑吗，为什么？

关于本期嘉宾

课代表立正｜AI教育者、Superlinear Academy创始人烟台人，上海读的高中，美国文理学院本科，康奈尔大学经济学博士，专注实证企业金融与计量经济学。毕业后先后在BCG实习、Amazon担任经济学家、Meta任Facebook Marketplace数据科学家、腾讯游戏担任数据增长AI副总监，最后以Principal Data Scientist兼唯一布道师身份加入Statsig，并于2025年OpenAI收购该公司前一天离职。

如今他全职运营Superlinear Academy——一个拥有30万+粉丝、3000+付费学员、课程评分4.9的AI教育平台。他的核心论点只有一句话：学AI最好的方式是用AI去构建，而不是消费它。2025年4月，他出版《真本事：从会工作到会赚钱》（人民邮电出版社）。

课代表立正的写作与课程：superlinear.academy | lizheng.ai

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标签

#TalkToJane #podcast #CareerAwakening #BigTechLife #DataScience #AIEducation #CourseCreator #CreatorEconomy #卖课 #职场觉醒 #大厂真相 #创业 #知命 #Career #WorkLifeBalance #SuperlinearAcademy #课代表立正

在人生的转折点，你并不孤单。

talktojane.com | TalktoJANE

Life isn't always about surrendering to the universe; sometimes, it’s about ruthlessly calculating your odds to build an unshakeable fortress of freedom.

For Carmen Li, every major life choice—from conquering a Computer Science minor at UIUC with zero background, to timing her Harvard MBA perfectly with her maternity leave—was treated like pricing a financial option. But her ascent through DRW's high-frequency trading floors, Citi, and Bloomberg wasn't just a highlight reel of elite success.

In this episode of TalktoJANE, we have an unapologetic, sharply honest conversation about the suffocating reality of corporate "empire building," the recurring crises of meaning that come with golden handcuffs, and the courage it takes to leave it all behind.

We discuss the toll of social anxiety, the liberating power of admitting you are "selfish," and how taking 100% ownership of your destiny as a founder is the ultimate way to protect your joy.

Read Full Story: www.talktojane.com/you-are-not-alone

In this conversation, we explore:

• The Calculus of Life Choices: How to approach major life decisions—from elite MBAs to motherhood—like a portfolio of financial options.
• Surviving the Corporate Machine: The reality of office politics at giants like Bloomberg and why "empire building" can quietly drain your soul.
• Radical Honesty & "Selfishness": Why refusing to provide traditional "emotional value" and unapologetically prioritizing your own joy can be the ultimate feminist flex.
• The Founder's Pivot: Trading the golden handcuffs of Wall Street for the chaotic, accountable freedom of building AI infrastructure startups in the GPU compute market.

本期看点：

当一个成年人将人生的高光时刻定格在“小学”和“现在”时，她必定经历过世俗的残酷洗礼，并最终夺回了对生命的绝对掌控权。本期嘉宾 Carmen Li 的前半生是一份极致的“精英履历”：从毫无编程基础硬啃 UIUC 计算机辅修，到 20 分钟做完顶尖高频交易（HFT）基金三小时的硬核测试；从精准计算将哈佛 MBA 与哺乳期重叠，再到一路攀升至花旗银行与彭博社（Bloomberg）的高管。

但这绝不是一个教你如何“往上爬”的世俗成功学。这是一次带有刺痛感的、极度诚实的（Radical Honesty）自我解剖。

在这场对话中，我们聊到了她如何在兄弟会（Fraternity）的社交高压下躲进厕所精准地哭两分钟，再推门出去谈笑风生；聊到了在彭博社等庞大企业机器中，那些由不安全感和权力争夺带来的、每四个月爆发一次的“精神危机”；以及她为何最终选择摘下“金手铐”，创立自己的 AI 算力基础设施公司。

这不是关于顺从的叙事，而是一段关于如何用最狠的野心、极致的算力，去为自己建构一座堡垒，从而在里面安放毫无掩饰的自我与天真的故事。

本期核心讨论

问题把人生当“期权”来算计： 如何用极致的理性规划生育、顶尖MBA与职业路径？

大厂的高管危机： 在大型企业，成就感匮乏以及掌控感缺失是如何引发周期性精神内耗的？

“自私”的力量： 为什么大方承认自己无法提供世俗意义的“情绪价值”、把自己的快乐放在首位，反而活出了一种极其舒展的松弛感？

跳出金手铐的勇气： 从华尔街精英到连创两家 AI 算力公司的 CEO，如何找回 100% 掌控命运的狂喜？

时间轴第一部分：被现实反复校准的“天真”与野心

00:01:13 — 高光时刻： 为什么一个履历如此光鲜的成年人，会将人生的高光时刻定格在“小学”和“现在”？

00:04:13 — 并非学霸： 从小被打脸到大，早早认清自己“不是天才”，反而练就了极强的抗挫折能力？

00:10:20 — 新加坡岁月： 15岁拿奖学金出国，从毫无知觉的兴奋到躲在寝室哭了一整年，孤独是如何重塑一个人的？

00:24:40 — 兄弟会生存战： 初到美国，在巨大社交压力下躲进厕所精准定时的两分钟崩溃。

00:30:10 — 死磕计算机： 毫无背景硬啃 UIUC 的 CS 辅修，当周围人五岁就开始编程，如何用“野心”彻底压制“惰性”？

第二部分：把人生当“期权”的极致算力

00:34:08 — 降维打击： 20分钟做完顶尖高频交易（HFT）基金3小时的硬核面试题，是什么体验？00:46:27 — “自私”的底气： 拒绝传统母职的自我牺牲，大方承认自己“以自我为中心”，为什么这反而是一种松弛？

00:56:27 — 精密的生育计算： 人生真的可以像金融期权一样被量化吗？为何一定要算出29岁和34岁这两个生娃的Deadlines？

01:01:22 — 哈佛MBA与母乳期重叠： 为了不让生育影响职业攀登，如何像操盘手一样完美规划时间线？

01:08:10 — 降低期待： 为什么接受“我不完美”并且保持极度诚实（Radical Honesty），才是解决焦虑的终极秘诀？

第三部分：摆脱大厂“金手铐”，重夺命运控制权

01:18:39 — 大厂生存危机： 在彭博社（Bloomberg）做高管，为什么会陷入每四个月爆发一次的自我怀疑与内耗？

01:25:54 — 摘下金手铐： 放弃光鲜的华尔街Title和确定性，创立 AI 算力公司（Silicon Data）的底层逻辑是什么？

01:31:48 — 手搓产品的狂喜： 一个人建架构、跑客户，在生日当天卖出第一单，找回 100% 掌控命运的感觉。

01:43:44 — 人生主打体验： 创立两家公司之余，还在学冲浪、后空翻和下围棋。在见识过所有丛林法则后，如何依然活得热烈鲜活？

关于本期嘉宾

Carmen Li ｜ 创业者，前彭博社（Bloomberg）企业数据战略联盟全球主管Carmen 的职业生涯横跨芝加哥的高频交易大厅与最前沿的 AI 算力市场。她拥有 UIUC 金融与计算机双学位及哈佛商学院（HBS）MBA。在经历了 DRW、美国运通、花旗银行与彭博社的世俗成功后，她对大厂内部的权力消耗感到疲惫。2024年，她选择跳出体系，创立了 Silicon Data 并接管了 Compute Exchange，致力于将 AI 算力（Compute）打造为下一个机构级投资资产类别。在极致的理性与野心背后，她坚守着“做不同的事情，最终是见自己”的纯粹与洒脱。

支持 TalktoJANE

邮箱: [email protected]

官网: www.talktojane.com

标签#TalkToJane #podcast #FemaleFounder #HarvardMBA #SiliconValley #WallStreet #AITech #GPUCompute #CorporateBurnout #RadicalHonesty #LifeChoices #WomenInTech #Entrepreneurship #MentalHealth #CareerTransitions

At life’s inflection points, You are not alone.

在人生的转折点，你并不孤单。

talktojane.com | TalktoJANE

很多人都会以为：只要按照社会既定的精英轨道努力，就能获得长久的安稳与幸福。但事实真的如此吗？

本期嘉宾大舅（Big Joe），曾在谷歌稳扎稳打8年，是一名资深产品经理。但在随后的短短三年里，离婚、接连两次遭遇初创公司裁员、父亲确诊癌症并离世……接踵而至的重创将他彻底推入生理性重度抑郁的深渊。这一期，我们聊的是一个残酷的问题：当厄运不按套路出牌，接连击碎你的事业、家庭和健康时，人该如何自救？他最终选择逃离高度“内耗”的硅谷湾区，搬到亚特兰大，通过降低期待，重新找回了内心的平静。

Life doesn't always go according to plan, even for a highly successful Silicon Valley Product Manager. After an 8-year steady climb at Google, Big Joe faced a relentless storm: a divorce, two severe startup layoffs, the loss of his father, and a diagnosis of clinical depression. In this episode, we have an honest conversation about what happens when hitting rock bottom forces you to rebuild, the physical toll of burnout, and why escaping the Silicon Valley rat race was his key to finding true peace.

本期核心讨论 (In this conversation, we explore):

• 重度抑郁的重量 (The Weight of Depression): 当精神病了，身体会发出什么无法抗拒的停机信号？

• 同辈压力陷阱 (The Peer Pressure Trap): 硅谷的“卷”是如何无形中吞噬我们的快乐的？

• 逃离硅谷 (The Geographic Pivot): 搬去亚特兰大，真的能斩断职场内耗吗？

• 重新定义成功 (Redefining Success): 当人生注定不再完美，为什么“降低期待”反而能更自由？

About the Guest:大舅 (Big Joe) ｜ 北美资深产品经理，前Google PM。经历了一系列密集的重大家庭与职场变故后，他勇敢面对了重度抑郁症的挑战。如今他定居亚特兰大，拥抱远程工作，在放下对“完美人生”的执念后，找到了全新的平衡。

About TalktoJANE:在人生的转折点，你并不孤单。TalktoJANE 是为这些转折时刻建立的人类生存证据库。我们不提供标准成功公式，只提供真实生存记录。At life’s inflection points, you are not alone. TalktoJANE is a library of human evidence for these moments, offering the raw truth of how others survived their "Complexity Cliff."

Visit TalktoJANE:Website: www.talktojane.comEmail: [email protected]

Navigate The Conversation:

00:00 - 前半生顺遂的精英，为何突然迎来人生低谷？ (Hitting rock bottom)

08:20 - 谷歌8年稳扎稳打：如何清醒认知自身短板？ (8 years at Google)

23:30 - 别随大流：别人眼里的光鲜亮丽，未必适合你 (The elite path trap)

40:40 - 确诊重度抑郁：身体发出的停机信号 (Clinical depression & physical breakdown)

45:30 - 漫长的吃药抗争：强行重返职场换来更深的无力感 (The battle with medication)

53:00 - 离开大厂去初创：生存压力倍增 (Leaving Big Tech for startups)

01:01:40 - 连遭裁员与父亲离世：坏消息无限叠加时怎么熬？ (Layoffs and losing a parent)

01:11:50 - 时间真的是解药吗？ (Is time really the cure?)

01:16:00 - 逃离硅谷：搬去亚特兰大，远离Peer Pressure (Escaping to Atlanta)

01:33:00 - 职场底气：准备好随时不给人打工了 (Ready to stop working for others)

01:42:50 - 给未来的自己：平静面对不完美的人生 (Finding peace in an imperfect life)

Topics: #TalkToJane #DepressionRecovery #EscapingSiliconValley #职场内耗 #抑郁症康复 #大厂裁员 #中年危机 #硅谷生活 #MentalHealth

Many people assume that changing careers will make them happier — but is that actually true?

In this episode of Talk to Jane, a former senior advertising professional who transitioned into a full-time yoga teacher reflects honestly on what changed, what didn’t, and what “being happier” really means.

This conversation explores:

Career burnout after reaching senior roles

Why “doing well on paper” can still feel deeply wrong

What actually changes — and what doesn’t — after a major career pivot

The difference between short-term relief and long-term sustainability

How the body often signals misalignment before the mind does

This is not a success story about quitting —

but a grounded conversation about trade-offs, identity loss, and redefining value beyond titles, income, and external validation.

很多人都会以为：

只要换一条路、换一个行业、换一种生活方式，

快乐就会自然出现。

但事实真的如此吗？

这一期《Talk to JANE》，我们聊的是一个更现实的问题：

当你已经在行业里做到一定位置，却越来越消耗、越来越不确定，

离开原有职业轨道，真的会让人更快乐吗？

本期嘉宾宋雨涵，曾在广告行业工作近十年，做到客户总监。

在身体和职业同时发出强烈信号之后，她选择离开原有路径，成为一名全职瑜伽教练。

这不是一个“逃离职场”的故事，

而是一段关于代价、失去、掌控感，以及如何重新定义“值得”的过程。

本期核心讨论问题

为什么很多人是在“已经做到一个位置”之后，才开始真正不快乐？

转行或换行业，真的能解决长期内耗吗？

当收入、身份与社会评价同时下降，人该如何判断自己是否走在对的路上？

什么是短期快乐，什么是长期可持续的生活状态？

当人生不再是一条轨道，而更像一片旷野，人该如何自处？

时间轴

CHAPTER 1｜离开之前：为什么做到一定位置，反而更痛苦

00:00–02:10 用呼吸回到身体：压力如何首先体现在身体上

05:50–06:16 广告行业现实变化：预算收紧后，工作为什么越来越难

06:16–09:30 做到客户总监后，为什么错误反而更致命

09:46–10:40 离开前的关键判断：补短板，还是方向本身就错了

10:40–14:30 半年空档期：为什么停下来反而更焦虑

CHAPTER 2｜离开之后：新职业的真实生活与掌控感

21:30–22:30 成为瑜伽教练后的一天，和想象中的自由有多远

31:21–32:20 学生变化带来的正反馈，为什么如此重要

34:25–35:30 小目标与即时反馈，如何重建安全感

40:42–41:50 长期练习后，身体与情绪发生了什么变化

44:48–45:55 如果回到广告行业，现在会做出什么不同选择

CHAPTER 3｜价值重构：钱、欲望、关系，与“更快乐”的真实含义

49:30–50:30 收入大幅下降后，生活还能不能维持

50:30–52:00 欲望与需要的区别，什么时候开始变得清晰

01:05:53–01:06:50 什么样的工作，能持续带来正反馈

01:08:30–01:09:30 当关系不稳定，为什么最终要回到和自己的关系

01:14:08–01:15:40 给“卡住的人”：没有标准答案，但不等于失败

关于本期嘉宾

宋雨涵｜瑜伽教练，前资深广告从业者

宋雨涵曾在广告行业工作近十年，做到客户总监岗位。

在长期高压与身体信号同时累积后，她选择离开原有职业路径，转向瑜伽，并成为一名全职瑜伽教练。

本期对话中，她分享了转行背后的真实考量、新职业的现实状态，以及对“快乐”“掌控感”和长期可持续生活的重新理解。

支持 TalktoJANE

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官网：www.talktojane.com

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标签

#TalkToJane #podcast #CareerBurnout #CareerChange #JobBurnout #Happiness #YogaTeacher #Advertising #WorkLife #MentalHealth #LongTermism

At life’s inflection points, You are not alone. | Talk to JANE在人生的转折点，你并不孤单。 | Talk to JANE

很多人以为：只要换工作、换城市、换环境，人生就会好一点。但现实是，不开心往往只是换一种形式，继续出现。

这一期《Talk to Jane》，主持人 Jane 对谈北美执业多年的华人心理咨询师曹蜜（LMHC），从大量真实个案出发，拆解职场焦虑、抑郁、完美主义、ADHD、关系困扰与长期情绪内耗背后的心理机制，以及我们为什么会在不自知中持续消耗自己。

你会听到：焦虑和抑郁的区别、为什么很多人是在升职之后才开始崩溃、完美主义如何拖垮高成就者、ADHD 的本质是执行功能问题，以及为什么“接纳当下”不是躺平，而是不再被情绪控制决策。

听完这一集，你会更清楚判断：到底该换环境，还是该修复自己的内在系统；也能分辨：自己是在焦虑、抑郁、逃避，还是已经进入长期过度消耗状态，并开始用非自责的视角理解自己的心理状态。

[关于嘉宾]曹蜜，美国执业心理咨询师（LMHC），完成系统临床心理学训练，在严格督导体系下累计 3000+ 小时一对一咨询经验，来访者包括华人移民、职场人士、青少年与创伤幸存者等。

⚠️ 本节目仅用于心理教育与自我理解，不构成任何医疗或诊断建议。如你正经历严重心理危机，请联系当地紧急服务或专业人士。

“如果我没有经历过JP Morgan那三年，我会觉得可能到一半就放弃。“

“不要想会不会成功，我们该投入的时候，就努力去投入。”

“Enjoy the process, the end doesn’t always justify the means.”

—— Richard Liao ｜一个CEO的养成