Tallinn Product Group Podcast

We’re back! After an eight-month breather—long enough for the tech world to reinvent itself a dozen times over—Anna-Liisa and Maria have finally refilled their cups. Welcome back to Product Rants. While we’re sticking to our raw, unscripted roots, this episode takes a slightly more philosophical turn as we try to make sense of the “magic” currently reshaping our industry.

In this episode, we venture beyond the standard PM talk to explore the era of Vibe Coding. We’re seeing a world where the barrier to building is vanishing, allowing anyone—from a solopreneur to a busy mom—to create hyper-personalized software solutions tailored to their exact needs. It’s an era of empowerment, though it certainly brings a wild new set of security risks along for the ride.

We also get honest about the “PM Productivity Trap.” Yes, AI can help us prototype in seconds, automate documentation, and process mountains of research data. It reduces our dependency on engineering and design for every small move, but it doesn’t eliminate the need for them. Most importantly, we argue that AI cannot accelerate your brain. While the tools are faster, they can’t manufacture empathy for a user or replace the deep industry wisdom that only a human PM can build.

It felt incredible to be back behind the mics. Grab a coffee, hit play, and join us for a deep dive into this FOMO-inducing AI world in product and outside of it.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

I wanted to talk to someone who builds vibe coding tool, IDE or similar for a while. Also I wanted to talk to a designer about vibe coding tools.

Seems like we hit a bingo in this one😄

In this episode, we spoke with Vitalik Kotik, co-founder & CEO of SuperApp, a startup building the iOS-native full-stack AI engineer - a tool that designs and builds apps in Swift without a human developer or designer.

Before founding SuperApp, Vitalik spent three years as a product designer at Bolt.

🎁 SuperApp Free Credits for TPG Readers

The SuperApp team is giving Tallinn Product Group readers exclusive free credits to test the app and build your first iOS app with AI.

Active period: 12–24 November 2025Eligibility: Available only to TPG.ee newsletter subscribers

How to claim free credits

* Visit superappp.com

* Click “Get Free Credits”

* Sign in and enter the promo code:

TALLINPRODUCTGROUP

Make sure to test it out and give your feedback to Vitalik Kotik

What we discussed:

* The designer-founder advantage — Why YC was looking for design founders. And what advantage they have over others.

* Unit economics and AI — We talked about language learning apps, and How to estimate unit economics of AI startup. and how they can be around 40–70% profit margins

* The engineering behind AI tools — multi-agent orchestration, context management, and efficiency, which models to pick, development tooling, etc. Would love to hear more on this topic.

* Freemium of tools like Lovable — How VC-funded players subsidize 90% of users while bootstrapped startups must break even fast.

* SuperApp’s growth plan — Reaching 10,000 users through hands-on workshops, product-led growth, do things that don’t scale, agencies, etc.

Episode timestamps:

00:00 – Intro: Building the AI iOS Engineer 02:10 – Do Vibe Coding Tools Make Money? 07:30 – How AI Tools Stay Profitable 09:50 – Multi-Agent Systems Explained 12:50 – Claude vs GPT for Developers 16:50 – Are AI Coding Startups Sustainable? 18:10 – Why Designers Should Be Founders 22:50 – From Product Designer to CTO 25:00 – Should You Learn Design or Engineering? 26:40 – The Italian Padel App Example 27:30 – Hitting the Limit of Vibe Coding 30:20 – Lessons in Unit Economics 34:10 – Bootstrapping SuperApp 36:50 – AI Margins vs Restaurants 37:20 – Growth Strategy for SuperApp 39:10 – B2B or B2C? Market Approach 40:35 – First Build TikTok, Then Product 42:20 – Bootstrap or Raise VC? 43:30 – Live Demo: Building an App 45:40 – The Pain of Xcode 47:10 – Final Thoughts & Free Credits

Connect with:

Vitalik Kotik (SuperApp)LinkedIn – sharing updates on AI + iOS building

Nikolay Roll (Tallinn Product Group)LinkedIn – sharing thoughts on everything Product related + Vibe coding as a hobby

Mentioned in the episode:

* Corporate Waters – https://corporatewaters.substack.com/p/how-cursor-windsurf-and-lovable-grow(Article by Mikhail Shcheglov about AI coding tools’ profit margins)

* Y Combinator: “Why Everyone Should Care About Design” – https://www.ycombinator.com/library

* Product Hunt – https://www.producthunt.com/products/superapp?launch=superapp (PH launch of SuperApp)

* Vibe Code Atelier (Tallinn) – https://allevents.in/tallinn/vibe-code-atelier-tallinn-meetup-for-builders-1/200028724137330(Community meetup in Tallinn)

* Cursor Meetups (Tallinn) – https://luma.com/cursorcommunity?k=c (Community meetup in Tallinn)

* Expo (React Native) – https://expo.dev (tech stack Superapp uses)

* SwiftUI (Apple) – https://developer.apple.com/programs/ (Preferred tech stack in Superapp)

🎧 Enjoyed this episode?Subscribe to the TPG Podcast for weekly deep dives into product strategy, startup building, and AI tools shaping the future of tech.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

The VC market in 2025 is brutal - too difficult to raise a round.So how do you actually raise your first round when all you have is a prototype and a dream?

🎙️ Guest: Vladimir Ivanov – Co-founder & CTO at Supplied (ex-Bolt)

From rolling out a pre-seed through EWOR (Europe’s Y Combinator) to closing deals in one of the toughest funding climates, we talk about what it really takes to start a company in 2025 - without hype, without virality, and without 30 engineers.

Key takeaways

* Fundraising in 2025 is slower and leaner. Investors expect traction, not slides.

* “Too early” is not a no. It means: show customers and traction, then raising will be easier.

* AI replaces headcount, not execution. You can build a working product solo - if you understand what to build. However, you need capital to accelerate growth.

* Boring markets win. Compliance and tax automation might not go viral, but they pay the bills.

* EWOR experience. How to join, pitch, and stand out among the 0.1% accepted.

* The 30% rule. Never let one client define your business.

* Bootstrapping vs VC. When to take money and when to stay lean.

Chapters

00:00 From Bolt to Startup: The Journey Begins04:16 Identifying Market Opportunities: The Birth of an Idea09:17 First idea was a fail14:47 First Sales16:45 Leveraging Networking for Growth18:43 Raising first money (EWOR)22:55 Raising pre-seed28:34 Should you apply to Accelerator/Incubator29:57 How to be successful like Y Combinator ;)32:01 The Role of AI in Startups32:01 Raising Now vs Before34:12 Do investors expect AI?35:53 Hiring People or AI?40:49 Why even raise if there is AI?41:54 Plans after pre-seed raise44:07 Why start a startup in 2025?47:25 How to split responsibility between you and co-founder?48:42 Good and Bad of building a startups?51:36 Personal motivation55:18 Maybe work for someone and build a side-project?57:17 Great opportunity: go build something59:05 Thoughts about product vision

Connect

Vladimir Ivanov — LinkedInNikolay Roll — LinkedIn

Referenced

* Supplied - startup of Vladimir

* EWOR Accelerator – “The Y Combinator of Europe”

* Bolt – Where the founding team met

* DAC7 Regulation Overview – EU marketplace tax reporting

* [TPG Article] “Why your company isn’t ready for AI yet”

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

Human written text:In this episode, Toomas and Anna-Liisa are trying out a new format: a more regular, unscripted conversation about the realities of product work and current news in the product world. Instead of polished frameworks or one-off deep dives, these sessions focus on what’s happening right now—in teams, in companies, and across the market.

They begin with the lively debate between Marty Cagan and John Cutler, two voices with very different audiences and truths about product management. From there, the discussion flows into early-stage chaos and innovation, when (and if) to introduce processes, why founders struggle to hand off their “baby,” and the tricky timing of bringing in a product manager.

The episode also touches on sales as an essential part of product work, bootstrapping versus VC funding, and whether venture studios could be a smarter way to get products off the ground. The common thread: product is rarely black and white - it’s about context, trust, and finding the best possible way forward.

So join us in today’s talk—and let us know what you think.AI generated summary:Podcast Summary: The Realities of Product Work - A New Conversational Format

Episode Overview

Toomas and Anna-Liisa launched a new podcast format focusing on unscripted, real-time conversations about product management realities and current industry debates. Moving away from polished frameworks, they dive into what's actually happening in teams, companies, and the broader market.

Key Discussion Points

The Cagan vs. Cutler Debate

The episode opens with the ongoing tension between Marty Cagan and John Cutler's approaches to product management:

* Marty Cagan's perspective: Works primarily with senior management, sees many companies as "feature factories" due to reluctant product organizations. Advocates for a clear, black-and-white definition of proper product management.

* John Cutler's viewpoint: Champions the nuanced reality that different contexts require different approaches. Not everything needs to fit the "inspired" framework - sometimes hybrid approaches work better.

The hosts conclude these perspectives serve different audiences and both are necessary - Cagan for executive buy-in, Cutler for teams implementing the work.

Early-Stage Product Chaos vs. Process

A significant portion discusses when processes help versus hinder innovation:

* Process as innovation killer: In early stages (4-person teams), introducing frameworks can create unnecessary overhead

* Chaos enables innovation: Early-stage chaos is where breakthrough solutions emerge

* Context-dependent frameworks: Combining elements from multiple methodologies often works better than rigid adherence to one

The Founder's Dilemma

The conversation explores the challenge of transitioning from founder-led product decisions to professional product management:

* Trust dynamics: How do founders maintain trust while introducing new processes and frameworks?

* The "baby handoff" problem: Founders often struggle to truly delegate product decisions, turning product managers into "fancy secretaries"

* Timing challenges: When to hire a product manager and how to ensure they're empowered, not just operational

Modern Market Realities

The discussion touches on how product discovery has evolved:

* Pattern recognition over market creation: Focus on finding existing behavioral patterns to disrupt rather than creating entirely new markets

* Sales-integrated discovery: In B2B, customer interviews often work best when combined with sales processes

* Subject matter expertise: Founder-market fit becoming increasingly crucial for funding success

Alternative Business Models

The episode explores venture studios as a middle ground between bootstrapping and VC funding:

* Venture studio model: Full-stack teams providing temporary expertise across legal, marketing, engineering, product, and design

* Equity for expertise: Taking 5-20% equity in exchange for getting companies to profitability

* Market gap: Addressing the 97% of startups that don't make it to Series A but could succeed as profitable, smaller-scale businesses

The Sales-Product Connection

A key insight emerges about product managers needing sales experience:

* Essential B2B skill: Every B2B product manager should do sales for 3-6 months to understand overselling dynamics and customer conversations

* Buyer vs. user personas: Understanding the difference between who pays and who uses the product

* Distribution reality check: Great products still need great marketing and sales - neither alone is sufficient

Key Takeaways

* Context over frameworks: There's no universal "right" way to do product management - success depends on matching approach to situation

* Trust and timing matter: Introducing processes requires careful timing and strong trust relationships

* Sales as product skill: Modern product managers, especially in B2B, must understand sales dynamics

* Alternative paths needed: The industry needs more options between VC funding and pure bootstrapping

* Pattern recognition: Focus on disrupting existing behaviors rather than creating entirely new markets

The episode successfully demonstrates their new format's value - providing practical insights from practitioners dealing with real challenges rather than theoretical frameworks.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

After a summer hiatus, in sync with the rest of the northern hemisphere, we are back recharged and ready to deep-dive into the world of people management.

Welcome back to Product Rants, where Anna-Liisa and Maria, two product people, grab their coffee cups and vent about the chaos, contradictions, and curveballs of product management.

In this fifth episode of Product Rants we explore the multifaceted journey of becoming a people leader, particularly within the realm of product management. We discuss the importance of communication, empathy, and self-discovery in leadership roles, as well as the challenges faced by middle managers.

The conversation takes us to dig into the need for curiosity, understanding one's strengths and weaknesses, and the importance of creating growth opportunities within organizations. Ultimately, we advocate for a more supportive environment for aspiring leaders, encouraging individuals to reflect on their motivations and the true nature of leadership.

We hope we enjoy this new episode of our rants!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to People Leadership

05:17 The Role of Communication in Product Management

11:22 The Balance Between People and Business

17:11 Challenges Faced as a New People Manager

23:00 Navigating the Complexities of Team Dynamics

28:56 The Loneliness of Leadership

38:22 Understanding Managerial Responsibilities

44:43 The Importance of Open Communication

54:06 Redefining Growth Paths in Management

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

Guest: Reelika Ein, CPO at Eesti Loto

Host: Urmo Keskel, co-founder of Phishbite

Reelika’s background is not the usual one for a product leader. She has worked in HR in many different roles before stepping into product. At first glance this looks like a big leap. But as Reelika explains, the move was built on years of learning, curiosity, and persistence. She read books, took courses, and slowly built the skills needed to become a CPO.

She talks about how her main driver has always been the wish to understand what it really takes to innovate. This curiosity gave her the courage to cross from HR into product. It also shaped her leadership style, where she combines structure with creativity and keeps teams focused on customer needs.

We also discuss how AI is already shaping product management. From speeding up research to changing how teams make decisions, AI is creating new opportunities but also challenges for product leaders.

For people thinking about a career in product management, Reelika shares very concrete advice. She points out what to study, what to practice, and how to stay resilient when things don’t go as planned. She also highlights resources that helped her own journey.

The talk with Urmo moves between personal stories, lessons from Eesti Loto, and bigger questions about Estonia’s digital ecosystem. It’s an open and practical conversation for anyone interested in product, leadership, and innovation.

Books mentioned

* Anyone Can Design

* Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making

Course mentioned

* Stanford: Leading Innovation

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

Every new tool nowadays is branded "AI-powered," how do we separate the real from the buzzword? This episode digs into what actually defines an AI product - and what makes managing it so damn complex.

🎙️ Guest: Liisi German – Group Product Manager at Bolt (ex-Veriff)

From self-driving cars and document scanners to chatbots that hallucinate refunds, we talk about when AI is the right tool, and when a simple if-else statement might do the job better.

Key takeaways:

* AI product management is about designing around uncertainty and mistakes (in some context known as hallucinations)

* Don’t build AI unless you have to. Seriously. Start with manual hacks. Fake it, Buy it, then Build it.

* Companies do 2 types of AI. Real AI product features and systems. And the second is automation. Most “AI” today is just automation. And that’s okay.

* We go through examples of Bolt and Veriff, how to evaluate edge cases, label training data and more.

Framework: 5 Jobs of an AI PM

* Design around machine failure and edge cases

* Decide when to buy vs. build

* Define “right vs. wrong” model behavior

* Source, label, and manage training data

* Manage legal concerns

Timecodes:

0:00 Introduction

1:25 AI Product Management Overview

2:10 What is AI product?

6:13 What is difference between: AI PM and Software PM?

13:18 How to work with uncertainty in AI Teams?

24:13 How to design around AI mistakes?

28:41 Understanding Data and Training

39:30 Should you Buy or Build your AI?

56:34 What are skills of AI PMs?

1:01:11 Liisi's University course

1:05:11 Future of AI in Product Management

1:06:01 Final Thoughts and Advice

Connect:

* Liisi German: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liisigerman/

* Nikolay Roll: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolay-roll/

Referenced:

* Alfred - name of AI chatbot of Bolt - https://bolt.eu/en-ee/

* Veriff - https://www.veriff.com

* OpenAI CPO on writing evals - youtube link

* Amazon walk in store - https://www.businessinsider.com/amazons-just-walk-out-actually-1-000-people-in-india-2024-4

* TPG article - Why your company is not ready for AI yet - https://www.tpg.ee/p/why-your-company-isnt-ready-for-ai

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

Welcome back to Product Rants, where Anna-Liisa and Maria grab their coffee (this time also a whole bucket of popcorn 🍿 and a lot of kitty material 🐾) to vent about the chaos, contradictions, and curveballs of product management. In this fourth episode of Product Rants we talk about working with the most loved-hated function of all: Sales.

Specifically, we explore what makes some product and sales teams' relationship work as a partnership and why others are doomed, no matter how hard we try. We also touch on what the fudge is all that product-led vs sales-led talk about?

When the relationship doesn’t work, we ask ourselves why that may be, and which causes are rooted in the higher levels of the organization versus causes stemming in how the daily jobs are performed.

For the first time, we also invite you to comment on your experience, if you fancy that. However you wish to engage, make sure you brew yourself a good cup of coffee and join us as we explore what makes product and sales teams work or fail.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

Finding early traction in marketing is tough—especially for B2B SaaS startups trying to compete with bigger players in saturated channels.

To solve this, Modash doubled down on SEO and built a content-driven engine that scaled them from €1M to €6M+ ARR with zero outbound sales.

In this episode, we spoke with Ryan Prior, Head of Marketing at Modash, to discuss:

* How Modash grew with 100% inbound sales from SEO and free tools

* Why mini-tools like a fake follower checker drove 250k+ visits/month

* The “95–5 rule” and why most of your market isn’t ready to buy—yet

* What it takes to build a brand that wins before the search even begins

* SEO vs. brand marketing: which gets you to €100M ARR?

* How Modash measures ROI when traditional attribution fails

Episode timestamps:

00:00 – SEO for customer acquisition

02:57 – How Modash built its early marketing

05:50 – Challenges and opportunities with SEO

08:48 – Mini tools to drive traffic

12:07 – Why Modash shifted focus to brand marketing

14:56 – 95/5 Rule

18:00 – Why video marketing is the next big bet for Modash

20:52 – How to build mental availability for your brand

29:58 – Choosing the right problem to own

30:41 – First principles of brand building

33:21 – Does design matter?

35:31 – Growing a brand through LinkedIn

40:54 – Making sense of LinkedIn ads for B2B SaaS

42:50 – Short vs Long term marketing

44:50 – How Modash measures go-to-market

48:19 – Why attribution in brand marketing is broken

51:49 – How to communicate marketing results to leadership

Some takeaways:

* SEO can be fast—if your market is already searching.Modash focused on high-intent keywords like influencer search tools, driving a 20%+ trial conversion rate. This worked because the target customers were already in-market and had clear pain points.

* Mini-tools scale traffic.Modash built lightweight tools like a fake follower checker and engagement rate calculator to satisfy long-tail queries. These tools bring 250k+ monthly visitors and feed into product trials.

* 95/5 rule, Long term vs ShortThe Modash is now shifting focus toward brand marketing, based on the 95-5 rule: only 5% of your market is ready to buy at any given time. The rest? They’ll choose from brands they already know.

* Brand marketing is “brain SEO.”If people search their brain before Google, your job is to make sure Modash is already there. That means building mental associations like “the only platform with enough influencer data” or “the one where filters don’t break the search.”

* What actually works? Ask your customers.Sales calls, branded search growth, contributor-led blog content, and even TikToks about “how many fake followers Ronaldo has” became indicators that their marketing is working—even when ROI can’t be tracked precisely.

Referenced

* Ahrefs / SEMrush – SEO tools used to identify keyword opportunities and validate search volume.

* Modash Fake follower checker – https://www.modash.io/fake-follower-check

* Modash Engagement Rate Calculator – https://www.modash.io/engagement-rate-calculator?influencer=%40therock

* Modash Blog – https://www.modash.io/blog

* Modash PSEO pages (e.g., “Influencers in France”) – https://www.modash.io/find-influencers/france

* TPG article on Copilot2Trip’s marketing tactics – https://www.tpg.ee/p/how-to-launch-0-to-1

Books & Marketing Theories

* “The Long and the Short of It” by Binet & Field• Discussed in detail when explaining the balance between long-term brand marketing and short-term performance marketing.• Suggests a 60/40 split between long-term brand-building and short-term activation.

* The “95–5 Rule”• A widely referenced B2B marketing principle: only 5% of your market is actively buying at any given moment; the other 95% need brand familiarity when they eventually come into market.

* “Share of Search” Concept• Referenced as a proxy for market share in branding. Used by Modash to measure brand awareness vs. competitors based on branded keyword trends.

Connect with:

* Ryan Prior LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanprior1/

* Nikolay Roll LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolay-roll/

Enjoyed this episode?Subscribe to the TPG Podcast for more insider insights from product-led operators in Europe and beyond. 🎧

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee

This episode with Pavlo Pedenko is a refreshingly honest conversation about the messy, non-linear journey from PM to founder. We talk about what actually happens when you build a company on the side, raise money while employed, and figure out product-market fit with no code. If you’re tired of polished startup advice and want the real play-by-play — this one is for you.And as always, some key takeaways from our conversation:

* 🚫 Generic advice is dangerous. Pavlo explains how following common startup and product mantras — like “quit your job” or “raise fast” — can backfire without context.

* 🧪 Product-market fit started with a Google Calendar. Before writing code, they hit 100K GMV with a landing page, a CRM, and some spreadsheets.

* 🧩 Find a core product insight. In their case - kids' schedules are non-negotiable. Moms would rather switch tutoring services than adjust lesson times — so time slot consistency became a competitive advantage.

* 🔁 Startups are built on conversations, not dashboards. Mathema’s early growth came from direct chats with parents — not funnels, frameworks, or fancy onboarding.

* 🔥 PM habits can hold you back. Transitioning from PM to founder means unlearning the habit of waiting for perfect data and following the process — sometimes you have to decide based on gut, speed, or first principles.

* 💸 You can raise while employed. Contrary to the usual playbook, Pavlo closed 70% of a funding round before quitting his day job

* 📉 They walked away from funding. Even after lining up investors, they chose to pause the round when growth outpaced operations — and cash started burning for the wrong reasons.

* 🎯 Hiring is hard — until you do the job yourself. They failed at hiring a creative marketer… until the founder learned the job, then found the right person.

* 💼 VC-backed vs. bootstrapped: it’s not just about money. VC gives you access to hungrier talent and long-term equity upside. Bootstrapping gives you control — but hiring gets harder.

* 👀 The real work of being a founder? Deciding where your time creates the most leverage. Even when it means giving up the product work you love.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.tpg.ee