Tech Won't Save Us

Paris Marx is joined by Mohammad Khatami and Gabi Schubiner to discuss the complicity of Google, Amazon, and Microsoft in Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza and how tech workers are organizing to stop it.

Mohammad Khatami and Gabi Schubiner are former Google software engineers and organizers with No Tech for Apartheid.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Find out more about No Tech for Apartheid from their website. Microsoft workers have also launched No Azure for Apartheid.
• Yuval Abraham reported on the Israeli military’s use of Amazon, Google, and Microsoft’s cloud services and AI in Gaza.
• Mohammad wrote about being fired by Google in The New Arab.
• Gabi refers to JWCC, with is a reference to the Department of Defense Joint Warfighting Cloud Capability contract with Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Oracle.
• Google fired 50 workers earlier this year for organizing over its ties to Israel.
• The Information reported on how many Arab Americans in tech are scared to speak out in support of Palestinians for fear of retaliation.
• In 1970, Polaroid workers under the banner of the Polaroid Revolutionary Workers Movement began the first anti-apartheid boycott of a US company by organizing against their employer’s complicity in South African apartheid.
• The IBM Black Workers Alliance was central to the anti-apartheid campaign at that company.

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Paris Marx is joined by Molly White to discuss why the crypto industry is spending millions on this election cycle and Coinbase’s potential breach of election finance law.

Molly White writes the Citation Needed newsletter. She is the creator of Web3 Is Going Just Great and Follow the Crypto.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Molly wrote about the Coinbase campaign finance violation and Donald Trump’s Bitcoin conference speech in her newsletter.
• Paris wrote about some of the concerns about Kamala Harris’ stance on tech.
• Fairshake spent $10 million on attacks ads against Katie Porter in California. It spent millions more targeting Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush.
• The crypto industry hates SEC head Gary Gensler, who is leading the regulatory effort against cryptocurrency.

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Paris Marx is joined by Hussein Kesvani to discuss the far-right attacks that happened after the Southport stabbing in the UK and how larger structural issues in media, politics, and tech laid the groundwork for violence against visible minorities.

Hussein Kesvani is a co-host of Trashfuture and Ten Thousand Posts.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• The stabbing in Southport resulted in the deaths of three children and injuries to eight children and two adults.
• After days of far-right attacks, there were large anti-fascist and anti-racist demonstrations across the UK.
• Some fascists attacked hotels housing asylum seekers, but in places like Bristol, locals started defending the hotels.
• In 1968, Conservative MP Enoch Powell delivered the “rivers of blood” speech.
• Elon Musk has been sharing a series of incendiary posts and false information that have helped fuel these attacks.
• The billionaire’s changes to Twitter have helped fuel right-wing misinformation.

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Paris Marx is joined by Luke LeBrun and Rachel Gilmore to discuss Shopify's connection to right-wing politics, through its interpersonal connection to a far-right news outlet and its reluctance to enforce its content policy on users selling hateful merchandise through their platform.

Luke LeBrun is the editor of PressProgress and Rachel Gilmore is an independent journalist.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Luke reported on Shopify COO Kaz Nejatian’s involvement in and funding of a right-wing Canadian “news” website called True North.
• Rachel reported on Shopify’s decisions not to disable support for stores that sell fraudulent goods and promote hate that’s in violation of their Acceptable Use Policy. She recently pointed out a series of stores Shopify still supports that sell Nazi memorabilia.
• Last year, an anonymous former Shopify worker spoke out about the right-wing culture at the company. Rachel confirmed the person had worked for Shopify.
• In 2022, Tobi Lutke was granted a “founder’s share,” guaranteeing him 40% voting power. 46% of shareholders voted against the proposal.
• Shopify found itself in the spotlight in 2021 when employees found a noose emoji had been added to the company’s Slack system.
• Shopify President Harley Finkelstein has been publicly opposing plans to raise taxes on capital gains. Only 0.13% of Canadians will be paying more tax under the plan.
• Some right-wing figures in Canada deny the truth of the residential schools.

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Paris Marx is joined by Chris Carlsson to discuss Processed World, a tech-critical, anti-capitalist magazine that satirized the absurdity of work in its publishing run between 1981 and 2005. 

Chris Carlsson is the author of many books, including most recently When Shells Crumble. He’s the director of Shaping SF and a cofounder of Critical Mass. He was also one of the people behind Processed World.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can find the full archive of Processed World on the Internet Archive.
• Chris wrote about his experience making Processed World in Notes from Below.
• Jacob Silverman wrote a great piece on the legacy of Processed World for The Baffler.

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Paris Marx is joined by Jacob Silverman to discuss why tech billionaires have become more supportive of  Donald Trump in the upcoming US election and whether Kamala Harris’ candidacy will disrupt their plans.

Jacob Silverman is the co-author of Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud and is working on a new book called Gilded Rage that is scheduled for Fall 2025.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Jacob wrote about Silicon Valley’s embrace of Trump for The Nation.
• Paris wrote about what Silicon Valley wants from Trump in Disconnect.
• Molly White’s new project is called Follow the Crypto.
• Elon Musk is reportedly committing $45 million a month to a pro-Trump Super PAC.
• Mark Zuckerberg called Trump a badass, while saying he won’t endorse any candidate.
• Eric Schmidt is pushing the Pentagon’s embrace of AI for war.
• Peter Thiel says he’d vote for Trump this cycle if there was a gun to his head.
• Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz wrote a Little Tech Agenda containing a basic policy program.
• Reid Hoffman funded a disinformation campaign in Alabama.
• Reed Hastings has already put $7 million into a pro-Kamala Super PAC.

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Paris Marx is joined by Sasha Luccioni to discuss the catastrophic environmental costs of the generative AI being increasing shoved into every tech product we touch.
 
Sasha Luccioni is an artificial intelligence researcher and Climate Lead at Hugging Face.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Sasha published a paper looking at the climate impacts of generative AI.
• Paris wrote about the increased emissions at Google and Microsoft, and the consequences of the growing data center buildout.
• Google’s emissions are up 48% in five years, while Microsoft’s are up 30% between 2020 and 2023.
• Bill Gates is telling governments not to “go overboard” with concerns about AI energy use. He’s been much more active in Microsoft’s AI strategizing than he’s admitted publicly.
• Microsoft President Brad Smith says its carbon “moonshot” is much farther away because of generative AI. The company is accelerating its data center construction plans.
• Sam Altman says we can geoengineer the planet if we can’t develop an energy breakthrough to power AI.

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Paris Marx is joined by David Gerard to discuss Jack Dorsey’s decision to leave Bluesky, his obsession with Bitcoin, and his contributions (or lack thereof) to modern technology.

David Gerard is the author of Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain and Libra Shrugged. He also makes Pivot to AI with Amy Castor.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• David wrote about Jack Dorsey abandoning Bluesky on his blog.
• Business Insider reported on how Dorsey gave money to the far-right founder of Nostr.
• Dorsey was interviewed by Mike Solana on Pirate Wires.
• Dorsey has posted in support of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and the response to it is why he deleted his Bluesky account.

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Paris Marx is joined by Jason Koebler to discuss the AI-generated spam filling Facebook, how the platform seems to have given up trying to stop it, and where the internet goes from here.

Jason Koebler is the co-host of the 404 Media Podcast.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Jason wrote about his theory of the zombie internet and what he’s been seeing on Facebook.
• Back in 2018, Motherboard reported on the rules Facebook gave its content moderators.
• Users of Facebook Free Basics and Wikipedia Zero in Angola found out how to make their own video streaming service for free.

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Paris Marx is joined by Jason Hickel to discuss how technology would change in a degrowth society and why it doesn’t make sense to organize society around profit and infinite expansion.

Jason Hickel is the author of Less Is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World. He’s also a Professor at the Institute for Environmental Science and Technology at the Autonomous University of Barcelona and a Visiting Senior Fellow at the International Inequalities Institute at the London School of Economics.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Jason wrote about technology and degrowth and the objectives of democratic ecosocialism for Monthly Review.

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