TGS Podcast

In our latest episode of Grow with the Flow, Georgi sits down with Ferdinand and Joliene to discuss the critical inflection point for the B2B tech landscape. They tackle a provocative question: Has the concept of "go-to-market" been hijacked by sales teams, and is it time for marketing to reclaim its rightful place?

Here are the three biggest takeaways from this thought-provoking conversation:

Takeaway #1: GTM should be marketing-led, not sales-led

Ferdinand makes a compelling case that go-to-market has been misappropriated by sales teams. When you break down what makes a good GTM strategy: understanding markets, audiences, positioning, differentiation, and reaching the right people with the right message….these are fundamentally marketing disciplines.

"Go-to-market is much more of a marketing discipline than it is a sales discipline," Ferdinand argues. "This whole idea that GTM is a sales discipline is ludicrous."

While sales is undoubtedly part of the GTM equation, the strategic foundation belongs to marketing. Yet we've seen a proliferation of sales-focused titles like "GTM Engineers" and "Revenue Leaders" claiming ownership of this territory.

Takeaway #2: AI is reshaping commercial functions

As AI automation takes over more routine tasks across commercial operations, we're seeing a shift in who handles what. Interestingly, it's often marketing teams stepping in to manage these new automation tools.

"Who has those skills? Marketing automation people have those skills," Ferdinand points out. "CRM marketers have those skills."

The irony is that while sales teams focus on automating processes, the true value of sales lies in the human element—building relationships and closing deals through personal connection. This human touch is precisely what AI won't easily replace.

Takeaway #3: Most marketers aren't ready for their new role

While marketing should become more important than ever in this new landscape, there's a sobering reality: many marketers aren't prepared for this shift.

"I would reckon that 70 to 80% of them are not ready for the change," Joliene observes. Many don't understand their market well enough, lack stakeholder management skills, or haven't built the necessary trust within their organizations.

The successful marketers of tomorrow will need to bridge the gap between strategic thinking and technical knowledge, between creativity and business acumen. They'll need to stop focusing on the "fluff" and start owning their role in driving revenue.

The bigger picture

The entire B2B landscape is at an inflection point. With increasing competition, more noise than ever, and AI disrupting established playbooks, companies need to rethink how their commercial functions operate.

"The whole world is at an inflection point, and we are no exception," Ferdinand emphasizes. "We're seeing more noise, more competition. We're seeing the rise of automation and AI."

But the conversation shouldn't just be about the technology; it should be about how these changes will transform how we do business. The focus needs to shift from the tools themselves to the strategic implications of these tools.

For marketing leaders, this represents both a challenge and an opportunity. Those who can adapt, who can reclaim their strategic role in go-to-market, and who can effectively leverage new technologies while maintaining the human elements of their craft will thrive in this new era.

Want to hear more insights on navigating your company through this inflection point?

Join us at TGS Con this September 18th!

See you there,The Growth Syndicate Team

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

You’ve probably felt the pressure: the pressure to hit your pipeline goals, keep CAC under control, and somehow justify ever-increasing ad budgets.

But what if the real risk to your company’s growth isn’t not spending enough — but spending too much, too predictably, on paid channels?

In our latest conversation with Canberk Beker, founder of ROASted and a B2B growth marketing leader who’s managed hundreds of millions in ad spend and seen the ugly side of “paid media addiction” up close.

Here are the biggest takeaways from our discussion:

Takeaway #1: Paid addiction starts with success, but typically ends with fragility

The story of most paid channels start the same way: you find a channel (LinkedIn or Google, for example) that works, so you double down. Budgets go up. Pipeline goes up. Reporting looks great. But cracks can begin to appear quite quickly.

In Canberk’s own experience, he’s seen paid campaigns work wonders. But these short-term wins tend to hide a deeper issue: the same playbooks get recycled every quarter, and over time, each dollar spent on paid brings fewer returns.

Even when paid was “working,” it still may only touch about 5% of your total market — that tiny slice that’s already in the market for what you’re selling. The other 95% can’t be captured that way, because you need to move them from out to in-market.

The real issue is teams building an entire marketing strategy on something that’s easy to track and quick to show results, but has a distinct ceiling. They become “hooked” on the immediate gratification of paid channels.

Takeaway #2: If everything becomes a campaign, you’re in trouble

It’s easy to spot a team (or entire company) that’s become too dependent on paid. That’s because every marketing activity starts to look like a “campaign.”

* Events are run for lead generation, not genuine connection.

* Content is written just to drive paid traffic, not real thought leadership.

* Success is measured by UTM codes and click-through rates, not by whether you’re actually building a sustainable brand.

Canberk calls this out as a major warning sign: when every part of your team’s output is designed to be “fuel” for paid campaigns, you’re limiting creativity and resilience.

Paid is easy to track, sure. But that’s what makes it a crutch.

The more you let your marketing strategy be dictated by what’s measurable, the more you ignore the slow-burn activities (community, partnerships, organic, product education) that actually move the needle for long-term growth.

And when you finally try to shift budget into something new? Stakeholders panic, because the numbers don’t show up as quickly or as clearly as they do in paid.

Takeaway #3: LinkedIn’s double-edged sword (and why Reddit isn’t a magic wand)

LinkedIn has become the default for B2B paid — and for good reason.

The targeting is strong, the reporting is easy, and the audience is (mostly) relevant. But costs are rising, and the platform’s monopoly means marketers are overexposed.

Canberk points out that while you can “diagnose” your campaigns on LinkedIn with confidence, you’re also at the mercy of their ever-changing algorithms and rising CPCs.

In the interest of diversification, Reddit strikes an intriguing proposition. This is especially true for certain technical or community-heavy products.

But it’s not a silver bullet.

Canberk’s own testing shows that while Reddit can deliver a ton of traffic at a low CPC, the quality can be wildly inconsistent. Only about 5% of that traffic is truly qualified, compared to 40%+ on LinkedIn.

If you try Reddit, be ready to experiment, measure carefully, and adjust quickly.

The big lesson: New channels are useful for resilience, but they’re not a replacement for a solid foundation. Max out what works, but always have a few experiments running so you’re not caught flat-footed when your main channel changes the rules.

The big picture

Paid represents a powerful part of your marketing mix, and in certain contexts it can be a powerful growth engine. But if it becomes the only engine, you’re setting your business up for:

* Volatility

* Rising costs

* Missed long-term opportunities

The teams who will win when the market inevitably shifts are the ones who break this cycle — balancing paid with brand, community, product, and organic growth.

Some final takeaways from our chat with Canberk include:

* Max out your proven channels, but don’t stop there.

* Experiment with new platforms like Reddit or community plays, but measure quality, not just clicks.

* Don’t let reporting drive strategy. Not everything that matters can be tracked in a dashboard.

* Build your forecasting around repeatability, not one-off spikes. Three months of solid results matter more than a single lucky month.

* Push for balance in the boardroom. Remind stakeholders that true growth means building for longer-term sustainability, not just hitting this quarter’s number.

Ready to break the habit? This episode with Canberk Beker is a great place to start.

Want to hear the full conversation with Canberk? Listen to the complete podcast episode for deeper insights on lead scoring, stakeholder management during attribution battles, and why AI won't solve your measurement problems. Check it out here.

Episode Highlights 👇

00:00 – Canberk’s story

09:20 – Discovering the paid addiction

15:32 – First steps towards fighting the paid addiction

16:40 – Combating seasonality

19:25 – Evolution of LinkedIn as a main paid channel

21:38 – Is Reddit worth it?

26:06 – Budget allocation of established channels vs new channels

29:00 – Exploring Reddit ad types and first steps towards winning the channel

35:00 – Rapid fire questions

37:00 – Is Canberk really going to retire? WTF

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Is the search for the perfect measurement leading to imperfect decisions? It turns out that many Marketing teams may be fighting the wrong attribution battle.

They're running the risk of obsessing over building the perfect model, while their actual marketing performance gets worse.

We recently spoke to Barbara Galiza, a Growth and Marketing Analytics Consultant with experience at Dentsu and WeTransfer, about why attribution has become a bit of dangerous obsession — and what to do about it.

Here are the three biggest takeaways that could change how you think about marketing measurement:

Takeaway #1: The "One source of truth" is a dangerous myth

One of the most common attribution mistakes that Barbara outlines is companies spending months building comprehensive models, and then trusting them completely for budgetary decisions. Big mistake.

Here’s why: A company spends a great deal of time implementing pixels from every ad platform, building a multi-touch attribution model, and feeling confident they finally understand their marketing performance.

Then, they start shifting their budget around based on the model’s recommendations — often resulting in cuts to brand marketing and video campaigns, in order to invest more in search. The rest is that sales, most often, go down.

The issue is that the model missed the unmeasurable stuff that actually drives conversions. YouTube ads, out-of-home campaigns, and influencer marketing don't show up in most attribution models because they don't start with trackable clicks.

The desire for perfect attribution often leads to imperfect marketing decisions. Companies end up optimizing for what's measurable rather than what's necessarily profitable. It makes an unclear situation merely seem clear.

Takeaway #2: Every channel needs its own measurement approach

Instead of building one massive attribution model, smart companies measure each marketing channel differently based on how it actually works:

* For magazine ads, you might use voucher codes.

* For YouTube campaigns, you could run incremental tests in specific geographic markets.

* For influencer marketing, self-reported attribution ("How did you hear about us?") often works better than trying to track clicks.

Issues crop up when teams try to everything the same way for the sake of consistency. After all, paid search is perfectly measurable because it starts with a trackable click. Most other marketing activities don't work that way, and that's okay.

This approach requires accepting that some marketing activities will never be as measurable as something like paid search. But cutting them because they're hard to track often kills the activities that make your measurable channels work.

Ultimately, the goal is not perfect measurement. It’s smart budget allocation. Sometimes that means accepting imperfect data around high-impact activities.

Takeaway #3: Start with business questions, not attribution models

During our conversation, Barbara noted that most companies approach attribution backwards. They build sophisticated models first, then try to use them for decision-making. Barbara recommends flipping this approach.

Start with specific business questions: Which channel should get more budget? Is our brand marketing working? How do we improve lead quality? Then figure out the minimum viable measurement needed to answer those questions.

For companies just starting out, Barbara's advice is simple: "If you're only running one channel, then just have the ad platform pixel on it. Don't overcomplicate it."

The measurement complexity should match your marketing complexity. Running multiple channels across different customer touchpoints? You need more sophisticated measurement.

Running primarily search and LinkedIn ads? Keep it simple.

Barbara also emphasizes the difference between data for reporting and data for optimization. Attribution events for ad platforms need to fire quickly to help algorithms optimize. Attribution for budget allocation can be more complex and take longer to calculate.

Don’t build attribution models for the sake of having them. Build them to answer specific business questions that will change how you allocate resources.

The bigger picture

If we take a big-picture view, the obsession around attribution comes from a very understandable place: the pressure to prove marketing value.

But that same pressure to show that you deliver and actually delivering aren't the same thing. Sometimes they can even be the opposite.

Barbara suggests that companies often overcomplicate attribution because they're trying to justify every marketing dollar. But measurement is supposed to be a competitive advantage, not a reporting exercise.

The goal shouldn’t be to have perfect attribution.

It's whether you have the ability to make better marketing decisions.

Want to hear the full conversation with Barbara Galiza? Listen to the complete podcast episode for deeper insights on lead scoring, stakeholder management during attribution battles, and why AI won't solve your measurement problems. Check it out here.

Episode highlights 👇

00:00 – Barbara's story / Entering the world of attribution

05:50 – Discovering attribution gaps

08:05 – Breaking myths around crafting the perfect attribution model

12:02 – Stakeholder management during the battle with attribution

13:49 – Building an attribution model from scratch

20:36 – Measuring the quality of the traffic

23:28 – Lead scoring and attribution

36:19 – Aligning sales and marketing

40:06 – Fixed Q&A

45:00 – Kudos and Facepalms

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Let's paint a picture: your leadership team just spent three months debating which CRM to buy. Meanwhile, 80% of your workforce is still using paper forms and bulletin boards to get their jobs done.

These are your frontline workers. The people in manufacturing plants, warehouses, retail floors, and field operations who actually make your business run. And, chances are, they're completely invisible to your technology investments.

We just had Merel van der Lei, CEO and CPO at Wyzetalk, on the podcast to talk about this exact problem. And how it isn't just an operational hiccup — it's a revenue leak.

Episode Highlights👇

01:14 – Introduction to Merel's story

08:43 – Introducing Wyzetalk and the 4 pillars of growth

18:01 – Prioritizing the right feedback to build a valuable product

24:11 – Integrating feedback collection points within your product

26:06 – Moving from product to being a CEO

32:53 – UX as a revenue driver

36:49 – The benefits of disrupting with UX

40:05 – Examples of successful UX iterations

43:30 – Fixed Q&A

56:19 – Rapid fire questions

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

What does it take to build a SaaS product without a clear market leader?

Find all of the answers in the latest episode of Grow with the Flow where Clément Dumont and Georgi Furnadzhiev sit down with Ward van Gasteren, a growth consultant for giants like TikTok, Pepsi, Cisco, and Nestlé, co-author of Growing Happy Clients, and founder of Growth Orange—an experiment management tool for growth teams.

This episode is a must-listen if you're building in a purple ocean—a market with no defined demand, benchmarks, or buyer expectations. Inside the episode:

✅ Lessons from working with 8-figure brands and building scalable growth teams

✅ Why retention is the biggest growth lever

✅ How to define minimum valuable experiments

✅ What's like building a software in untapped market Whether you're growing a new product, leading a growth team, or trying to break out of the acquisition hamster wheel—this episode will give you a new lens on how sustainable B2B SaaS growth really works.

---

Useful links:

Connect with Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wardvangasteren/

Check out Growth Orange: https://www.growthorange.com

Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn: /thegrowthsyndicate

Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders: https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community

Take part of the TGS CON 2025 - A vetted conference for 200 founders and GTM experts: https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/conference

Highlights👇

02:18 – Introduction to Ward's story

08:09 – What makes successful companies stand out

09:01 – How to deal with companies where ego plays a huge role

13:20 – Building effective growth teams

22:12 – Defining minimum valuable experiments

23:49 – Insights from "Growing Happy Customers"

25:30 – Tips for writing a book

28:38 – Growing a SaaS in a non-developed category

35:48 – Finding your purple ocean

54:35 – Chatting about the TGS Community

59:29 – Retention as the main driver of growth

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Is SEO really dead or it's just your playbook?Let's find the answer together in the newest episode of Grow with the Flow, where Clément Dumont and Georgi Furnadzhiev sit down with Baptiste "Baba" Hausmann, an award-winning SEO expert who helped companies like Mollie, Tellent and many more turn their SEO strategies into real growth engines.If you’re still thinking of SEO as keyword stuffing and link-building… it’s time to update your playbook.As always, we had lots of fun talking to Baba while covering various topics including:✅ SEO evolution before and after AI ✅ The role the modern SEO Team✅ Connecting SEO to revenue ✅ A step-by-step SEO guide for a fake company (case study)✅ Keyword discovery & advanced research tactics Stick with us to the end to learn more about optimizing your brand for AI rankings!Whether you’re seasoned generalist or SEO expert this episode will help you embrace the new revenue-driven SEO playbook.

----

Useful links:

Connect with Baba on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/baba-seo/

Check out Baba's SEO playbook https://www.baba-seo.com/seo-revenue-playbook

Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate

Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community

-----

Highlights👇

2:24 – Introduction to Baba’s story

8:06 – The evolution of the SEO playbook before and after implementing AI

12:51 – The role of the SEO team

18:18 – Building a growth engine following the new SEO playbook

22:09 – Taking your SEO engine from 1 to 1000

28:09 – Keyword discovery as part of your SEO engine

32:02 – Researching for SEO

37:57 – Optimizing your SEO playbook for AI ranking

41:14 – Baba’s biggest SEO success story

46:09 – Short answers from Baba

52:38 – Kudos and Facepalms

56:18 – LinkedIn post about SEO

58:27 – Rapid fire questions

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Expanding Into new markets? Most SaaS teams get it wrong

Scaling into multiple markets sounds exciting—until reality hits. We see most SaaS teams rush in without a solid foundation, leading to wasted resources, missed opportunities, and slow adoption.

Already feeling the pressure?

Come Join us for another podcast episode of Grow with the Flow where Ferdinand Goetzen and Clément Dumont sit down with Jean Bonnenfant, a serial growth leader for companies like Growth Tribe, Trezy, and currently Lleverage.

Jean has trained over 5,000 professionals at companies like ING, Philips, and PWC while coaching over 200+ startups. This conversation is packed with hard-learned lessons from the old days, so make sure not to miss out on it!

As always we covered a bunch of topics including:

✅ The hard truth about localization – Why native experts make or break your global expansion

✅ What types of companies make the most money – And why “boring” businesses are often the most profitable

✅ A brief introduction to Web3 growth – What’s different, what works, and what doesn’t

✅ The power of qualitative data – Why every growth leader should balance numbers with deep insights and so much more!

Let's dive into the episode 👇

---

Useful links:

Connect with Jean on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/growth-hacking-speaker/

Check out Lleverage https://www.lleverage.ai/

Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate

Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights -https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community

---

Highlights

02:21 – Introduction to Jean's story

14:01 – Facing the hard truth about localization

20:09 – Building courses for big clients

25:03 – Boring businesses get the most money

29:09 – Jean's experience within Web3 growth

36:44 – Short questions

41:09 – Facepalms and kudos

46:54 – Rapid fire

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Does your company really understand the role of product marketing?

Let's try to find the answer to some of the biggest questions around the topic including:

- When should you invest in product marketing?

- How does the role evolve as your company scales?

- And what separates great product marketers from the rest?

Join us for the latest episode of Grow with the Flow, Clément Dumont and Joliene van Grieken sits down with Ashley Herbert Popa, a searial head of Product Marketing for some companies Sendclound, Tellent and Virtuagym.

Within the episode we covered various topics including:

✅ The real role of product marketing in B2B SaaS

✅ Kickstarting the product marketing function (even as an early-stage company)

✅ Gathering customer insights & competitive intelligence effectively

✅ Balancing between strategy & execution as a product marketer

and most importantly, answering if the product marketing be its own function!

If you want to sharpen your go-to-market strategy and build a product marketing function that truly drives impact, this episode is for you!

---

Useful links:

Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn / https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-herbert-popa-561b6930/

Check out Sendcloud https://www.sendcloud.com/

Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate

Check our exclusive community for B2B Marketing leaders https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community

Episode Highlights:

1:07 – Ashley’s story: From the US to Europe & into product marketing

6:47 – What is product marketing, really?

7:48 – The role of product marketing in B2B SaaS

9:50 – How to build a product marketing function from scratch

11:52– Setting boundaries as a product marketer

14:22– Gathering customer insights to influence product & GTM

17:27– Competitive intelligence: How great product marketers do it

20:27 – The role of product marketing in early-stage vs. late-stage companies

23:22– Delivering value as a product marketer in early-stage B2B SaaS

28:45 – Should product marketing be a standalone function or part of GTM?

33:10 – Fixed Q&A: Hard lessons, best practices & hot takes

45:45 – Why product marketing & demand gen don’t always mix

52:07– Rapid-fire: Product marketing trends, biggest mistakes & the future

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Looking for a great underdog story? 👀

In this episode of Grow with the Flow, Ferdinand Goetzen and Clément Dumont sits down with Maxim Poulsen—a growth leader at Contrast who has also built a massive digital presence across multiple channels.

If you’re not a big brand, don’t have a huge following, and feel like an underdog in your space—this episode is for you. LinkedIn isn’t just for influencers or established companies. With the right strategy, you can position yourself as a category leader.

Inside this episode, we cover:

✅ Pivotal moments in Contrast’s growth journey

✅ A step-by-step guide to building high-performing LinkedIn carousels

✅ How Maxim became a top B2B thought leader and so much more!

And so much more!

----

Useful links:

- Connect with Maxim on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximpoulsen/

- Upgrade your webinar game with Contrast https://www.getcontrast.io/

- Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn / thegrowthsyndicate

- Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

- Check our exclusive community for B2B Growth professionals https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community

Episode Highlights:

01:12 – From underdog to LinkedIn authority

05:12 – The simple strategy to get your team posting

09:12 – Should you hire LinkedIn influencers?

13:12 – The truth about LinkedIn growth timelines

17:12 – How to craft a high-impact 5-slide carousel

22:12 – Tactical hacks vs. long-term marketing strategies

27:12 – Will video help underdog brands win on LinkedIn?

30:12 – Maxim’s lessons from leading growth at Contrast

35:12 – Rapid-fire Q&A

45:12 – Facepalms & kudos

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com

Does your marketing team still focus solely on generating MQLs?

In the latest episode of Grow with the Flow, Joliene van Grieken and Ferdinand Goetzen sits down with Justyna, founder of The Marketing Waiting Room, Growth Mentor, and Lecturer at the Business School of Rotterdam.

From leading growth teams to building her own thriving solopreneur business, Justyna has mastered the art of keeping marketing simple and effective. In this episode, we uncover:

✅ How to discover your "marketing enemy" and use it to stand out✅ Whether MQLs really tell the full story behind success✅ What exactly is a Marketing Waiting Room✅ How to measure mental availability

Oh, and we had to ask her about her viral take:👉 Does the funnel even exist?

If you’re in marketing, growth, or thinking of going solo, this episode is for you!

Useful links👇

- Connect with Justyna on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/justyna-ciecierska/

- Build a waiting room with Justi https://www.marketingwaitingroom.com/

- Follow The Growth Syndicate on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/thegrowthsyndicate

- Subscribe to our Substack for exclusive insights -https://thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com/

- Check our exclusive community for B2B Growth professionals https://www.thegrowthsyndicate.com/community

Episode Highlights

02:08 – Justyna’s journey: From growth leader to thriving solopreneur06:15 – What to expect when working with Justyna10:15 – Balancing short-term wins and long-term strategy as a marketing leader18:23 – Measuring mental availability in marketing21:02 – Inside Justyna’s thought leadership engine26:15 – The power of making bold brand choices29:15 – How to build a B2B thought leadership engine from scratch32:15 – The role of mentorship in career and business growth34:15 – Best practices for outreach and finding the right mentor36:28 – Fixed Q&A: Controversial opinions, biggest mistakes, and key takeaways49:08 – Breaking down Justyna’s viral LinkedIn post52:12 – Rapid-fire questions: Funnels, new vs. established markets, solopreneurship, and more

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thegrowthsyndicate.substack.com