The 8020 Drummer Podcast

If you've watched more than zero of my videos, you'll know that there's a kick drum technique that I endorse pretty unequivocally - simple heel up.

Sure, it takes some dialing-in, but my general feeling is it's the most versatile/least "distance-sensitive" technique for avoiding tension at multiple speeds and dynamic ranges.

But what if I was wrong.

Today's interview subject has the opposite take: whereas I switched to "heel up" after several frustrating years trying to coax more volume, power, and speed out of my legacy "heel down" technique, he switched to heel down, when he found heel-up made soft dynamics and playing off the head more difficult.

I'm speaking of YouTube OG Tim Metz.

In our extended interview, which you can view below, we get into his background co-teaching with Mike Johnston in Sacramento, gig scenes in general, his approach to teaching, and the like, but for purposes of the YouTube video, we went head-to-head to debate the merits of the two techniques.

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If you haven't heard of Arch Echo's Richie Martinez, get ready for a rabbit hole.

(Richie's Instagram)

Richie is one of the most electrifying young drummers around.

While he calls the genre of his band "progressive metal", his playing encompasses a type of "cross-genre" fluency not many drummers have, but it's exiting when you see it.

Equally comfortable in funk, fusion, or prog settings, Martinez brings energy, enthusiasm, and blistering chops to anything he plays.

Martinez' background is an unconventional one - growing up in Houston, he was mostly self-taught until high school. That gave Richie a unique perspective on teaching and learning drums. What's more, he's made playing "hard" a science, and coaches many-a-touring-drummer on how to play forcefully without injuring themselves or burning out.

And while Richie responded to the question "is there a reason to play forcefully when you can just let the mics do the work" with "yea - do you want to be a LOSER?" He equally obsessed with the mechanics of the low end of the dynamic range, and frequently asks students to play softly on table tops. And while he's a jokester, he shows an unironic love for the instrument and his students.

If you've ever wondered about the mechanics of playing drums hard without injury, why some of the "conventional advice" doesn't always work, or just what a super disciplined player is like to spend time with, I know you'll love this conversation with Riche.

Want to play drums injury-free into your 70s and beyond?

I sure do.

Today's video guest, Brandon Green, was coaching elite athletes when a high school friend's struggle with injury inspired him to utilize his skills to help drummers. Since then, Brandon founded the Drum Mechanics YouTube and Instagram channels, where he breaks down the setup and movement of some of your favorite drummers, and gives tons of free advice to help all drummers improve our setup and movement.

I wasn't an uninterested party. Since becoming a "tall guy" I've always struggled with "Ichabod Crane Posture", and over the past couple of years I've been experimenting with setup mental cues, and exercises to help me move better.

Brandon weighs in on the posture conundrum from both philosophical and practical angles.

Then I ask him to help resolve something I've always had confusion about: rack tom angle. And the answer surprised me. (But I'm making a change.)

Andy Prado is a drummer's drummer.

Talk to practically anyone you've heard of about who their favorite drummers are, and Andy is likely to be in that sentence.

He's one of a small list of drummers you could call "elite choppers" - a list that includes people like Ron Bruner, Mike Mitchell, and not too many others.

As such he's in both an enviable, and an unenviable position. And you better believe we dig into the multi-edged sword of "chops". (It's way harder than you think to get them, you don't have anything to "hide behind" like groove drummers, and when you reach the top of your profession everybody either wants to be you, hates you, or both.)

Andy touches a bit on the unhuman work ethic necessary to reach the level he's reached. We also get into:

• Huey Lewis and The News - based or cringe

• Andy's weekly routine and current projects

• The importance of being authentic

• Whether drummers' outward personalities match their music

• How Andy is also an elite groove player

• and much more

I know you'll enjoy this light-hearted convo with one of the LA OGs, the GOAT, as Forrest Rice calls him.

Andy's Links

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/andypradojr/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@andypradojr6186 Coevality Band - https://www.instagram.com/coevalityband/ The Golden Age by Wires - https://wirestheband.bandcamp.com/album/the-golden-age Scarypoolparty - Sun Moon Earth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvO39Y2692M

Whether or not you've heard the name Arthur Hnatek, you've probably heard the drummer.

If you love Tigran Hamasyan, by definition you love Arthur Hnatek.

Since the Mockroot album, Arthur has been creating unique drum parts for Tigran, and weaving himself deeply into the fabric of the band, and the albums.

As my interests currently sit at the intersection of jazz and prog rock, I was extremely interested in who Arthur's influences were, and how he's developed his voice.

We start out having the usual conversation about developing a music voice, but quickly segue into "musical family trees" - i.e. is Keith Carlock the "grandfather", and Mark G and Nate wood the "fathers" - something I'm gratified that Arthur likewise found fun.

Maybe most fascinating, Arthur didn't ever consciously play prog rock, but rather absorbed it via osmisis.

Insights like, and something surprising about Tigran's input into drum parts, abound in this interview. Know you'll enjoy.

When I was first getting started on YouTube, there were only a few drummers doing the same thing. One, of course was podcast guest Mike Johnston. Another was Brandon Scott.

Brandon brought great playing, low-key humor, and humility to his videos, and immediately captured attention.

Over the years, as my production quality stagnated, Brandon kept leveling his up, becoming a student of great filmmaking in general, and youtube videography in particular. Recently his video chops caught the attention of Drumeo, who hired him to make a few one-off video ads. That gig turned into a full-time position as a Drumeo videographer, as part of which Brandon regularly commutes to Vancouver and shoots spots for artists like El Estepario Siberiano.

I knew I wanted to get Brandon on a call to help me with my video production, and he graciously agreed. We also rap about Brandon's drum journey, and how/why he low-key sounds so good. (I say "low key" because his playing is never the focus of his videos; he just sounds great.)

If you have any interest in YouTube or video production, this episode is for you!

Chapters

1:20 - how Brandon got interested in video production 4:34 - Brandon's life story that's led him to be working with Drumeo 9:36 - why was Brandon *early* to killer video 13:43 - oh - Brandon is also a killer player - how did he get good 21:20 - hand speed isn't the limiting factor 22:51 - video production basics 27:48 - the number one advice Brandon would give ME 29:40 - the camera explained 35:20 - camera placement and lights - dos and don'ts 39:10 - getting the most out of a cheap camera

One of my proudest "hipster" achievements was being an early adopter on Ari Hoenig. Long story short, I arrived in New York 3 months before the start of my first school year in grad school, and spent the summer checking out live music with other students who'd stayed around the for summer.

One of those things we checked out was Ari. And as such, I was able to share the discovery with my classmates when they arrived in the fall.

Who was this guy who looked like he was outrunning demons when he played, who had a crispness and simplicity to his playing, and yet who was pushing the boundaries on so many things. For those in the know, Ari was already making waves with Kenny Werner by the time I caught him with the Jean Michel Pilc trio.

But as more and more jazz students cottoned to him, he quickly became the unofficial mayor of what I'd call New York Village Jazz. (As distinct from uptown and downtown jazz.) And his own groups birthed at least a few stellar careers, among them that of Gilad Hekselman.

It had been years since Ari and I had spoken - I'd "fanboyed" to him a number of times after gigs - so it was great to revisit one of the most influential drummers when I was in school and the years afterward.

In this interview, Ari and I speak about the origins of his unorthodox style, forging a path as an individual artist, how to deal with the critical voice and self-doubt while developing as an artist, his approach to practicing improvisation and more.

I guarantee you'll enjoy this one.

I just learned that being a "youtuber" is the number one career goal of elementary school children. If I could give them one tip it's "study accounting unless you're ready for a lot of hustle and at least a few sleepless nights."

But one of the things that makes my "job" worth it is when I get to embark on learning a genre that's not familiar to me as a science experiment, and when I get to speak directly to one of the leading artists of the genre for advice.

Such was the situation when Periphery's Matt Halpern, one of the most storied prog rock drummers of the past decade, agreed to donate some of his time to sit down and answer my questions. Matt joined Periphery in 2010, and since then it's been a fairytale whirlwind of records and tours.

Despite his busy tour schedule, Matt takes extra time to conduct group masterclasses in tour locations as often as he can, and is extremely passionate about teaching.

It was this combo of "cutting edge practitioner" and skilled communicator I couldn't pass up, so that's why I asked Matt to teach me - in at least a limited capacity. Part of the pretext for the interview was for Matt to listen to a recording I did of Periphery's most recent - and most challenging - songs, and give me feedback and advice.

And he did not disappoint.

From practice psychology, to approaching songs, to body mechanics, to ice baths, he was comprehensive. And I tried to incorporate as much as I could into my final performance of the song.

But we also spoke about Matt's unique approach to playing…well…"mathy" music, in a way that's human and soulful, and evocative of a previous generation of drummers like Bonham. Then we spoke about teaching in general, and the healing power of jiujitsu.

I know prog rock isn't at the top of the playlist for a big portion of my audience, but I highly encourage you to check out this interview even if Periphery isn't your cup of tea, because Matt's insights extend beyond any genre.

Know you'll enjoy this one!

Chapters

3:48 - how does Matt approach learning complex prog songs 13:19 - is learning Dracul Gras in a short time a bad idea? 17:56 - the origin of Matt's old-school groove approach 22:00 - did Matt have to work hard to learn groove? 27:19 - how to play loud efficiently 42:00 - why is Matt so passionate about teaching 48:16 - how do you know if you have what it takes to be great at drums

In this interview you'll catch a lot of references.

That's because Clarence was one of the most influential drummers on the early-2000s "jazz renaissance" that happened in New York, and on me.

No matter who the artist was that was drawing out New York jazz students on a Tuesday night, you can bet the drummer was Blade, Ari Hoenig, Dan Weiss, or Clarence. (And later Eric Harland and Marcus.)

And if you look up the personnel from practically any of the most influential bands of the era, you'll see Clarence in the drum seat.

Two of my favorite examples:

Strange Liberation, which I mention in the interview ("slow down" part is at 6:52)

The Visitor (live version), which contains one of my favorite Clarence solos. (Solo begins at 5:20)

From these examples you'll get an idea of the "tension" I mention in the interview between tighness/snappiness and looseness/irreverence, and you'll hear Clarence's "punk rock mixed with deep love for the tradition" style.

It took a couple of months before Clarence had a spare moment in his busy schedule, which includes commuting from Florida, where he lives with his family, to LA, where he's on the faculty of USC, but it was worth the wait.

In this conversation, we speak a lot about teaching and learning, a subject of current fascination, given that I'm coaching a small group of 1:1 jazz students. I get Clarence' philosophy on teaching improvisation, and the limitations of written material.

We also speak about "safe spaces" (not in the politically charged way), and the tension between helping students by holding them accountable, but wanting lessons to be an "oasis" in their week instead of inducing stress.

And of course I can't waste the opportunity to ask Clarence about what it was like being part of a jazz renaissance, and how he feels that's different from the current climate…

…not to mention the boundaries of the word "jazz", and why people who were in the New York scene in the early 2000s define that word differently than "kids these days".

If you can't tell from my writing, this was one of my favorite interviews so far, and I know you'll enjoy it too. If you dig the interview, please follow Clarence on instagram and give him a shout.

Chapters

1:13- Latest teaching gig at USC, and the value of motivated students 12:30 - the paradox of focus 18:10 - why I think Clarence was predisposed to do what he did 23:45 - is jazz dead? (hah!) 27:33 - the definitions of jazz 34:58 - bridging the gap between exercise and improvisation 42:54 - how Clarence practices time

In 2016, I had no business being welcomed into the West Coast drum family with open arms. I had a tiny YouTube channel, and didn't even play all that well.

But that didn't stop Forrest Rice from inviting me over to shed, and letting me hang with him and friends at that year's NAMM convention.

Forrest first came to prominence after playing in grand finals for the Guitar Center Drumoff, may it rest in peace, in 2014. He's played drums for Covet and Wolfy, and currently plays with saxophonist Ian Roller. But most importantly, he's a deep thinker about the drums and music in general.

In this conversation I ask Forrest about why he told me to learn the Tony Williams ride cymbal technique in 2016, the differences between jazz and math-rock, east-coast versus west-coast drum styles, "with the grain" versus "against the grain" practice, and more.

And he also tells a ten-minute story with a "behind the scenes" look at the Drum-Off, then joins me in a round of ridiculous speculation about how one might resurrect the Drum-Off, without many of the downsides.

I know you'll enjoy this one.

Chapters

1:00 - Tony and energy management 4:15 - the double right thing 7:52 - with the grain va against the grain practice 12:27 - Forrest's take on the critical voice 17:42 - Forrest's latest thing at the Baked Potato 22:37 - east vs west coast drumming 28:41 - the best guitar center drum off story ever 47:46 - how we'd improve the drum off 52:50 - Forrest's current projects

Show notes

Daniel Hayn - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmUTeaLU8SA Forrest's Merry Little Christmas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iyvl6DRy-c JD Beck and Buff Hello Kitty Beats - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANPbOxaRIO0 Naima Acuna - https://www.instagram.com/naimaacunaoficial/ Cole Riddle with Mike Mitchell - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDgyajeLmPU Maison Guidry GC Drum off 2008 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj7PcsposVw Quentin Ferb Milwaukee Gospel Chops video - https://youtu.be/TESIpvdd0VI?si=SyJKb-gn7Nb-JXcq Ian Roller with Forrest - https://www.instagram.com/p/CzHWJwZPC8G/ Another Ian with Forrest clip - https://www.instagram.com/p/Ct66ez9MsWC/ Wolfy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16AMH-axEk