The Abstract

What does a former GC-turned-executive recruiter wish she'd known about creating a personal brand, working with search firms, and negotiating the offer? How do executive recruiters help take careers where they need to go—not just to the next level? And when is the right time to start building a meaningful relationship with executive recruiters?

Joelle Khoury, consultant at Egon Zehnder, built a towering career as an in-house counsel at private equity giants like Saban Capital Group and Fifth Wall and at law firms including Cooley LLP and Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP. But when the time came to make a change, she pivoted from leading to legal to helping other lawyers find the career paths that best suit their interests.

Listen as Joelle shares insider tips on how to reach out to executive recruiters, navigate the interview and offer processes, the wrong way to approach a negotiation, and when to reassess whether the profession you’ve chosen is still the right one for you.

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-45

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Building a legal career at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher and Cooley LLP: 3:09
Comparing Saban Capital Group with Fifth Wall: 5:55
Advice to lawyers raising capital for the first time: 8:16
Leaving Fifth Wall and reassessing your career plan: 9:55
Taking time off before joining Egon Zehnder: 11:22
Transitioning from a legal career to executive recruiting at Egon Zehnder: 16:07
Advice to executives looking to executive recruiters for new opportunities: 21:43
Tips for nailing the interview process: 26:10
Tips for negotiating after receiving an offer: 29:40
Lessons you learned as a recruiter that you wish you’d known as a GC: 33:33
What you wish you’d known as a young lawyer: 35:27

Connect with us:
Joelle Khoury - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-khoury-21959814
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

How can training to be a professional opera singer translate into the legal operations profession? How do you build a career in legal ops without any formal training? And what role should technology play–if any–in a strong legal ops program?

Cory Clines, Legal Operations Manager at Campari Group, was able to transfer valuable lessons from his life as a conservatory-trained opera singer into his fifteen-year-long career in legal ops, like the importance of collaboration and the need for a shared vision among teams. In his current role and at former companies like Advance Publications and Lloyd’s, Cory was able to leverage his love of technology into managerial roles that revolutionized legal processes with efficiency-maximizing software.

Listen as Cory discusses how to develop strong relationships with tech vendors, building legal ops teams from scratch, earning the trust of your GC, the best ways to run an RFP, and more.

Read detailed summary:  https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-44

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Training as an opera singer: 4:01
Considering skill transfer from opera to legal operations: 12:12
Moving forward by earning the trust of your GC: 14:46
Deciding to leverage technology in legal ops: 16:34
Running RFPs from an in-house perspective: 18:59
Identifying new opportunities to advance your legal ops career: 22:05
Advice to legal ops professionals who feel pigeonholed in one aspect of the role: 24:27
Considering how curiosity affects your work: 27:23
Questioning the need for tech expertise as a legal operations manager: 28:47
Looking back at tech implementations that went wrong: 31:20
Building a legal ops team from scratch at Campari: 38:14
Using tech to drive legal ops process: 41:15
Book recommendations: 46:01
What you wish you had known when you started in legal ops: 47:58

Connect with us:
Cory Clines - https://www.linkedin.com/in/corywilliamclines/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

If you're a foreign-trained lawyer who wants to move to the U.S., how do you find a job? Why should companies look to foreign-trained lawyers in an increasingly globalized world? And how should you navigate moments of big career transitions?

Flavia Naves, former general counsel at Circle, relocated to the United States after studying law in her native country of Brazil, and went on to become an authority on law and regulation related to crypto, fintech, digital payments, and much more. In addition to her long lost of leading legal roles, she is also a board member, of counsel at Kunz and Hathaway, and commissioner of the State of Wyoming’s Stable Token Commission.

Listen as Flavia shares the challenges she faced as a foreign-trained lawyer, why she advocates for mentorship and specialized training, what it’s like facing unexpected career transitions, and how she came to realize that her biggest differences are her biggest strengths.

Read detailed summary:  https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-43

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Moving to the United States after growing up and studying law in Brazil: 2:44
Entering the legal job market as a foreign-trained attorney: 3:51
Seeking mentorship from other foreign-trained lawyers: 8:18
Why companies should consider more foreign-trained attorneys: 11:23
Considering LLMs: 14:36
Navigating moments of career transition: 18:24
Deciding to leave your GC role at Circle: 20:36
Life after Circle: 25:38
Book recommendations: 31:15
What you wish you’d known as a young lawyer: 32:42

Connect with us:
Flavia Naves - https://www.linkedin.com/in/fnaves
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

How does the nature of an organization change the design of its legal operations program? How can leaders of all types embrace innovations that legal ops professionals are bringing to legal ops departments? What are the most important things legal ops leaders need to know about the business?

Susan Packal, Head of Global Legal Operations at Atlassian, learned the most important aspects of legal ops leadership serving in director and chief of staff positions at dynamic start-ups and legacy brands like Hilton, eBay, Uber, and Twilio, in addition to running her own legal ops consultancy. Along the way, she’s developed methods for building legal ops teams that leverage their proficiency to serve the needs of the core business.

Hear from Susan as she sits down with Tyler at CLOC to discuss ways to establish a strong culture in your legal team, elevating the GC role, and recognizing the importance of tough feedback to help guide your career.

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-42

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Building the first legal ops teams at Hilton: 3:06
Contemplating the chief of staff role in legal departments: 9:51
Running legal operations as director and chief of staff at Twilio: 12:49
Setting a strong culture in the legal department at Atlassian: 15:58
Comparing and contrasting Hilton, Uber, and Atlassian: 19:36
Considering past career missteps: 22:10
Book Recommendations: 29:00
What you wish you had known as a young lawyer: 32:07

Connect with us:
Susan Packal - https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanpackal/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

How has the legal ops profession evolved over the years? What was it like to be there at the birth of legal ops? And how can you break into the field now?  

DeAnna Papedis, head of legal contract & product program management & operations at Google, has been with the tech giant for eighteen years, building up their massive legal ops departments from a team of legal assistants. Stepping into legal operations from a contract management role before the field even had a name, DeAnna has watched legal ops grow into an indispensable part of the organization.  

Hear DeAnna as she takes a break from CLOC to discuss building and leading one of tech’s biggest and most venerable legal ops teams, expanding the legal ops community, and predicting the future of legal ops.  

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-41     

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Transitioning from contracts manager into legal ops: 4:55
Growing legal ops within Google: 8:56
Managing a legal ops team: 11:44
Attending CLOC from the beginning: 13:40
Imagining the future of legal ops: 16:24
Book recommendations: 19:11
What you wish you’d known as a young lawyer: 20:00

Connect with us:
DeAnna Papedis - https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanna-papedis/  
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft  

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues.

Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

Can you leverage a joke-filled social media brand to build your own business? How will the practice of law evolve in the age of AI? Is the billable hour going away?

Matt Margolis, Partner at Margolis PLLC, went from a single funny and relatable LinkedIn post about frustrations at work to growing a massive brand as @ItsMattsLaw across platforms like TikTok, X, and Instagram. Beyond expanding his network, it aided him as he made the leap from in-house to partner at his own law firm, Margolis PLLC.

Hear Matt discuss how he balances social content creation with legal work, starting his own law firm, serving as legal advisor to multiple companies, and how he thinks AI is shaping the future of legal work.

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-40

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Building a major social media presence: 3:01
Managing the demands of content production: 8:59
Leveraging your persona profile to build brand awareness at LawTrades: 12:48
Starting your own legal firm: 14:45
Tracking the evolution of in-house legal roles: 18:17
Leveraging AI at your law firm: 20:47
Advising on community and partnerships at Justice HQ and Attorney Share: 24:11
Recommendations: 26:14
What you wish you had known as a young lawyer: 29:02

Connect with us:
Matt Margolis - https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsmattslaw/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

What is the role of tech in making legal and business teams work better together? How can process orchestration improve your intake process and seamlessly connect silos in your organization? And what is it like to build a tech company that serves legal professionals?  

Sagi Eliyahu, CEO and co-founder of Tonkean, didn’t set out to make a platform that automates and streamlines processes for lawyers. But focusing his startup’s point of view on elevating people over data allowed him to identify the issues that legal teams—some of the most people-centric and complex teams in an organization—need to resolve to do their work better, faster, and with more time to focus on solving problems.  

Hear Sagi discuss the meaning of process orchestration, his experience immigrating to the US and starting a tech-company, and where he thinks AI and machine learning are headed. And for the first time ever, Spotdraft COO Akshay Verma joins Tyler as co-host and draws upon his background in legal ops at Coinbase and Meta to contribute keen
insights into the conversation.  

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-39   

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Understanding how the immigrant experience shapes your business acumen: 6:16
Founding Tonkean and focusing your sales efforts on legal: 15:13
Defining process orchestration and contrasting it with automation: 21:13
Working with customers to orchestrate processes: 26:26
Taking a pragmatic approach to using AI and machine learning: 36:44
Contemplating when data sets will be strong enough to give AI reliable judgment: 45:15
Book recommendations: 58:12
What you wish you had known as a young founder: 1:00:55

Connect with us:
Sagi Eliyahu - https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliyahusagi/  
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/  SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft  

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues.
Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

How do you step into and thrive in the role of product counselor? How does the work of a product counselor change from organization to organization? And how can you recalibrate your legal career to focus on environmental issues and climate change?  
Vineet Shahani, General Counsel, Policy and Corporate Development at Mill, gained his product knowledge working on the iPhone at Apple and guiding the groundbreaking internet-of-things product Nest through acquisition and integration at Google. Now he applies those learnings to his legal leadership at Mill, a mission-based environmental product that combats a major climate issue.  

Hear Vineet explain the challenges and rewards of jumping from a big organizations to an adaptable startup, lending your legal skills to a political campaign, breaking into environmental work, and more.  

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-38  

Annual Compensation Report: https://salary-report.spotdraft.com/

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Explaining Mill and its environmentalist mission-oriented concept: 2:22
Considering work in an ESG (environmental social governance)-related company: 8:01
Advice for lawyers who want to work on climate issues: 10:18
Beginning your path to a full-time counsel role as an outside advisor: 14:41
Unpacking the phrase “hitting a single:” 18:16
Defining the responsibilities of a product counselor: 22:25
Lessons about product counseling from Apple: 25:39
Transitioning from Apple to Nest: 27:36
Leading legal at Nest through an acquisition by Google: 31:37
Assisting on a political campaign: 37:42
What you wish you’d known as a young lawyer: 41:28   

Connect with us: Vineet Shahani - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vineetshahani  Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft  

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues.

Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

How can legal leaders thrive while navigating major M&A and capital market transactions? How do you expand the GC or CLO title and take on broader executive roles? And how do you leverage your experience into a board seat?

Nithya Das, Chief Legal and Chief Administrative Officer at Diligent, has taken on each of these challenges and used the lessons she gained from them to advance her career exactly where she wants it to go. Formerly the chief legal and people officer of the so-called “AppNexus mafia” during the startup’s historic sale to AT&T, Nithya has led counsel, operations, and more in the ad tech, food tech, and reg tech spaces. She also brings her expertise to her seat on the board of directors at Outbrain.

Hear Nithya as she shares tips about leading in-house counsel through IPO and acquisitions, serving on a board of directors, dealing with personal tragedy during career triumphs, the importance of transparency for establishing trust and loyalty with your team, and more.

Diligent is the leading GRC SaaS company, empowering more than 1 million users and 700,000 board members and leaders to make better decisions, faster. The Diligent One Platform helps organizations connect their entire GRC practice — including governance, risk, compliance, audit and ESG — to bring clarity to complex risk, stay ahead of regulatory changes and deliver impactful insights, in one consolidated view.

Diligent will be at CLOC global institute next month! Be sure to catch their speaking session 'Elevating Entity Management' on the 7th and stop by booth 104 to discuss the ways Diligent can help streamline and automate your entity management at scale.

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-37

Annual Compensation Report: https://salary-report.spotdraft.com/

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Planting the seeds of your legal career: 3:36
Moving into your first in-house role at AppNexus: 4:47
Running the IPO and acquisition process as GC at AppNexus: 8:29
Choosing to move on from AT&T after acquisition: 10:43
Taking time off before joining Olo as COO and CLO: 16:02
Running operations at Olo: 20:12
Offering practical advice to lawyers trying to take on business roles: 25:10
Working with private equity versus working in a public company: 27:47
Leading legal at Diligent: 29:58
Finding your way onto the board at Outbrain: 31:53
What you wish you had known as a young lawyer: 35:52

Connect with us:
Nithya Das - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nithyadas/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

How do you transition into a legal ops role? What are the new and exciting opportunities for legal professionals without a law degree? How will the legal operations community trailblaze a path for in-house counsels and law firms into the future of business?

Tommie Tavares-Ferreira, Head of Legal Ops at Cedar and Tom Stephenson, Vice President of Community and Legal Ops at Legal.io, have an expert understanding of both the legal ops industry and the diverse channels that professionals can take to arrive in the field. Not only are they the hosts of the Dear Legal Ops podcast, but they have arrived via their own journeys from big law firm paralegals and HBO contract manager to running legal ops at major businesses like Credit Karma, Rakuten, and Peloton.

Hear Tommie and Tom as they discuss the benefits for ambitious professionals to transition into a legal ops role, how to balance your business skill set with a strategic legal mindset, career paths beyond legal ops, and much more.

Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-36

Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Transitioning from paralegal to legal ops: 2:30
Coming into legal ops from a contract management background: 5:22
Shifting your mindset from legal specialization to business strategy: 8:38
Debating whether legal ops is the right career path for everyone: 12:38
Establishing trust with stakeholders across the broader business: 15:50
Managing a legal ops department: 19:10
Maintaining a strong relationship with your general counsel: 23:59
Balancing your business expertise with your GC’s legal strategy: 31:01
The importance of placing the head of legal ops on the GC’s leadership team: 36:04
Considering career moves beyond legal ops: 38:48
Transitioning from legal ops to executive roles: 43:15
Presenting at CLOC 2024: 49:11

Connect with us:
Tommie Tavares-Ferreira - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tommie/
Tom Stephenson - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tstephenson1/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn

SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues.
Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.