In this episode, Joshua Yaffa speaks with Prince Zeid bin Ra’ad Zeid al-Hussein, one of the central architects of the modern international human rights system. From helping to establish the International Criminal Court to serving as United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Prince Zeid has spent decades confronting the tension between moral ideals and political power.
At a moment when international law, human rights, and multilateral institutions appear increasingly fragile, he reflects on what these systems were actually built to do—and why they were never guaranteed to survive. The conversation explores fear, nationalism, authoritarianism, and the recurring cycles of history, but also the role diplomacy can still play in preventing societies from sliding into violence.
Prince Zeid speaks candidly about the realities of dealing with governments accused of abuses, the limits of international institutions, and the psychological burden of speaking on behalf of people suffering under war, repression, and injustice. He argues that human rights are not abstract ideals, but practical restraints designed to protect humanity from its own worst instincts.
The conversation also turns to the United States, the erosion of postwar norms, the rise of exclusionary politics, and the question of whether the current global order is entering a dangerous new phase. Throughout, Prince Zeid remains both unsentimental and deeply committed to the idea that diplomacy, when practiced skillfully, can still produce extraordinary outcomes.
Recorded at the Munich Security Conference in February 2026.
Antonio Gramsci: Italian politician, founder of the Italian Communist Party (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Antonio-Gramsci)Omar al-Bashir: Former President of Sudan (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Omar-Hassan-Ahmad-al-Bashir)Jörg Haider: Austrian politician (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jorg-Haider)Karl Lueger: Austrian politician (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Karl-Lueger)Libya 2011/UN Security Council Resolution 1970: During the Libyan civil war, the government used violence against the civilian population. The resolution referred the situation to the ICC, imposed an arms embargo and targeted sanctions. (https://unscr.com/en/resolutions/1970/)The End of History: Theory by Francis Fukuyama, positing Western-style liberal democracy as the last ideological stage in the long march of history. (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Francis-Fukuyama)Jus Cogens: Universally binding norms in international law which cannot be overridden by treaties or agreements. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/jus_cogens)Rome Conference, 1998: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/icc-statute-1998The Nuremberg Principles establish that individuals, not just states, are accountable under international law for war crimes and crimes against humanity. (https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/2024-05/Rome-Statute-eng.pdf)Magna Carta (1215): Declared the sovereign to be subject to the rule of law and the liberties held by “free men”. (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Magna-Carta) Charlottesville 2017: In August 2017, a white supremacist rally took place in Charlottesville, Virginia. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/local/charlottesville-timeline/)Manchuria: Japanese invasion of the Manchuria region of China in 1931, after the Japanese army staged a false flag event as a pretext to invade. (https://www.britannica.com/place/Empire-of-Japan/The-Manchurian-Incident) Abyssinia: The Italo-Ethiopian War (1935–36) led to the annexation and occupation of Ethiopia (then known as Abyssinia) by the Kingdom of Italy. (https://www.britannica.com/event/Italo-Ethiopian-War-1935-1936)) Rhineland: On 7 March 1936, German troops re-occupied the de-militarized Rhineland zone. (https://germanhistorydocs.org/en/nazi-germany-1933-1945/remilitarization-of-the-rhineland-1936)