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Dominique Jean Larrey lived quite a life. He was born in 1766, and at the age of 13, had to walk from his home in a French village to study in the city of Toulouse. That journey was 70 miles, and yes, he walked it. That would be important much later in his life, when he found himself walking through the bitter cold in Russia as the Chief Surgeon of Napoleon's army. During that time, Napoleon's troops had to contend with the reality of Russian cold and temperatures that got as low as -37 degrees Celsius, which is about -35 Fahrenheit.

Larrey attributed his ability to withstand the cold to his walking. But many of the soldiers around him wound up with frostbite, and to treat them, Larrey suggested slowly rewarming the affected area and rubbing it with snow. Frostbite treatment has been on quite the journey since then, and it was just earlier this year that the FDA approved the first drug to treat frostbite in the US, which is exciting news for the doctors who see cases of frostbite and for patients who are often left with the horrific reality of amputation.

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Tyler and I spoke about view quakes from fiction, Proust, Bleak House, the uses of fiction for economists, the problems with historical fiction, about about drama in interviews, which classics are less read, why Jane Austen is so interesting today, Patrick Collison, Lord of the Rings… but mostly we talked about Shakespeare. We talked about Shakespeare as a thinker, how Romeo doesn’t love Juliet, Girard, the development of individualism, the importance and interest of the seventeenth century, Trump and Shakespeare’s fools, why Julius Cesar is over rated, the most under rated Shakespeare play, prejudice in The Merchant of Venice, Shakespeare as an economic thinker. We covered a lot of ground and it was interesting for me throughout.

Here are some excerpts. Full transcript below.

Henry Some of the people around Trump now, they’re trying to do DOGE and deregulation and other things. Are there Shakespearean lessons that they should be bearing in mind? Should we send them to see the Henriad before they get started?

Tyler Send them to read the Henriad before they get started. The complicated nature of power: that the king never has the power that he needs to claim he does is quite significant. The ways in which power cannot be delegated, Shakespeare is extremely wise on. And yes, the DOGE people absolutely need to learn those lessons.

Henry The other thing I’d take from the Henriad is time moves way quicker than anyone thinks it does. Even the people who are trying to move quite quickly in the play, they get taken over very rapidly by just changing-

Tyler Yes. Once things start, it's like, oh my goodness, they just keep on running and no one's really in control. And that's a Shakespearean point as well.

And.

Henry Let’s say we read Shakespeare in a modern English version, how much are we getting?

Tyler It’ll be terrible. It’ll be a negative. It will poison your brain. So this, to me, will be highly unfortunate. Better to learn German and read the Schlegel than to read someone turning Shakespeare into current English. The only people who could do it maybe would be like the Trinidadians, who still have a marvelous English, and it would be a completely different work. But at least it might be something you could be proud of.

Transcript (prepared by AI)

Henry Today, I am talking to Tyler Cowen, the economist, blogger, columnist, and author. Tyler works at George Mason University. He writes Marginal Revolution. He is a columnist at Bloomberg, and he has written books like In Praise of Commercial Culture and The Age of the Infovore. We are going to talk about literature and Shakespeare. Tyler, welcome.

Tyler Good to chat with you, Henry.

Henry So have you ever had a view quake from reading fiction?

Tyler Reading fiction has an impact on you that accumulates over time. It's not the same as reading economics or philosophy, where there's a single, discrete idea that changes how you view the world. So I think reading the great classics in its entirety has been a view quake for me. But it's not that you wake up one morning and say, oh, I turned to page 74 in Thomas Mann's Magic Mountain, and now I realize that, dot, dot, dot. That's a yes and a no for an answer.

Henry So you've never read Bleak House and thought, actually, I do see things slightly differently about Victorian London or the history of the –?

Tyler Well, that's not a view quake. Certainly, that happens all the time, right? Slightly differently how you see Victorian London. But your overall vision of the world, maybe fiction is one of the three or four most important inputs. And again, I think it's more about the entirety of it and the diversity of perspectives. I think reading Proust maybe had the single biggest impact on me of any single work of fiction if I had to select one. And then when I was younger, science fiction had a quite significant impact on me. But I don't think it was the fictional side of science fiction that mattered, if that makes sense to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the models embodied in the stories, like, oh, the three laws of robotics. Well, I thought, well, what should those laws be like? I thought about that a good deal. So that would be another part of the qualified answer.

Henry And what was it with Proust? The idea that people only care about what other people think or sexuality or consciousness?

Tyler The richness of the internal life, the importance of both expectation and memory, the evanescence of actual events, a sense of humor.

Henry It showed you just how significant these things are.

Tyler And how deeply they can be felt and expressed. That's right. And there were specific pages early on in Swan's Way where it just hit me. So that's what I would say. Bleak House, I don't think, changed my views at all. It's one of my three or four favorite novels. I think it's one of the great, great, greats, as you have written yourself. But the notion that, well, the law is highly complex and reality is murky and there are all these deep mysteries, that all felt very familiar to me. And I had already read some number of newer sort of pseudo-Victorian novels that maybe do those themes in a more superficial way, but they introduce those themes to you. So you read Bleak House and you just say, well, I've imbibed this already, but here's the much better version of it.

Henry One of the things I got from Bleak House, which it took me a couple of reads to get to, was how comfortable Dickens was with being quite a rational critic of the legal system and quite a credulous believer in spontaneous combustion and other things.

Tyler Did Dickens actually believe in spontaneous combustion or is that a plot device? Like Gene Roddenberry doesn't actually believe in the transporter or didn't, as far as we

Henry know. No, I think he believed. Yeah. Yeah. He defends it in the preface. Yeah.

Tyler So it's not so confusing that there's not going to be a single behavioral model that captures deviations from rationality. So you end up thinking you ought to travel more, you ought to take in a lot of diverse different sources about our human beings behave, including from sociology, from anthropology. That makes it harder to be an economist, I would say it scatters your attention. You probably end up with a richer understanding of reality, but I'm not sure it's good for your research. It's probably bad for it.

Henry It's not a good career move.

Tyler It's not good for focus, but focus maybe can be a bit overrated.

Henry Why are you more interested in fiction than other sort of people of a broadly rational disposition?

Tyler Well, I might challenge the view that I'm of a broadly rational disposition. It's possible that all humans are roughly equally irrational, madmen aside, but if you mean the rationality community as one finds it in San Francisco, I think they're very mono in their approach to reasoning and that tends to limit the interests of many of them, not all, in fiction and travel. People are regional thinkers and in that region, San Francisco, there is incredible talent. It's maybe the most talented place in the world, but there's not the same kind of diversity of talents that you would find in London or New York and that somehow spreads to the broader ethos and it doesn't get people interested in fiction or for that matter, the visual arts very much.

Henry But even in London, if I meet someone who's an economist or has an economics degree or whatever, the odds that they've read Bleak House or something are just so small.

Tyler Bleak House is not that well read anymore, but I think an economist in London is likely to be much more well read than an economist in the Bay Area. That would be my prediction. You would know better than I would.

Henry How important has imaginative literature been to you relative to other significant writers like philosophers or theoretical economists or something?

Tyler Well, I'm not sure what you mean by imaginative literature. I think when I was 17, I read Olaf Stapleton, a great British author an…

With the advent of print in the fifteenth century, Europe's cultural elite assembled personal libraries as refuges from persecutions and pandemics. Andrew Hui tells the remarkable story of the Renaissance studiolo--a "little studio"--and reveals how these spaces dedicated to self-cultivation became both a remedy and a poison for the soul.

Blending fresh, insightful readings of literary and visual works with engaging accounts of his life as an insatiable bookworm, Hui traces how humanists from Petrarch to Machiavelli to Montaigne created their own intimate studies. He looks at imaginary libraries in Rabelais, Cervantes, Shakespeare, and Marlowe, and discusses how Renaissance painters depicted the Virgin Mary and St. Jerome as saintly bibliophiles. Yet writers of the period also saw a dark side to solitary reading. It drove Don Quixote to madness, Prospero to exile, and Faustus to perdition. Hui draws parallels with our own age of information surplus and charts the studiolo's influence on bibliographic fabulists like Jorge Luis Borges and Umberto Eco.

Beautifully illustrated, The Study: The Inner Life of Renaissance Libraries (Princeton UP, 2024) is at once a celebration of bibliophilia and a critique of bibliomania. Incorporating perspectives on Islamic, Mughal, and Chinese book cultures, it offers a timely and eloquent meditation on the ways we read and misread today.

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An investigation into a mysterious room. A room that the most famous family in England apparently does not want you to see.

Support the show at searchengine.show

Today we follow a sleuth who has spent over a decade working to solve an epic mystery hiding in plain historical sight: did anyone survive the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79AD? 

Tired of hearing the conventional narrative that every Pompeiian perished without any evidence to back it up, Classicist Steven Tuck decides to look into it himself. Although he is nearly two millennia late to ground zero, he uses all the available evidence to reimagine the disaster from the perspective of the people on the ground. Could anyone have survived the volcano? If they did, could they have survived what came after that: earthquakes, tsunamis, pumice stones hurtling like missiles from the sky? If someone did survive, what happened to them after that??! To find out we have to think, feel and possibly even eat like Ancient Romans. 

An against-all-odds story of a disaster without warning, a mass disappearance without a trace, and oddly, a particularly stinky fish sauce, care of special guest Chef Samin Nosrat. 

We have some exciting news! In the “Zoozve” episode, Radiolab named its first-ever quasi-moon, and now it's your turn! Radiolab has teamed up with The International Astronomical Union to launch a global naming contest for one of Earth’s quasi-moons. This is your chance to make your mark on the heavens. Submit your name ideas now through September, or vote on your favorites starting in November: https://radiolab.org/moon

EPISODE CREDITS: 

Reported by - Latif Nasser
with help from - Annie McEwen and Ekedi Fausther-Keys
Produced by - Annie McEwen
Recording help from - Adam Howell
Voice acting by - Brandon Dalton
Original music and sound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloom and Annie McEwen
with mixing help from - Arianne Wack
and Hosting Helo from - Sarah Qari
Fact-checking by - Emily Krieger
and Edited by  - Pat Walters

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Recipes -

Ancient Roman recipe for garum (https://zpr.io/gMNmXcNZUhZg).

Read more about garum here (https://zpr.io/4gh939TxCRpZ) or in Sally Grainger’s book The Story of Garum: Fermented Fish Sauce and Salted Fish in the Ancient World

Articles -

On Pliny's letters and the eruption including a reanalysis of the date of the eruption, Pedar Foss, Pliny and the Eruption of Vesuvius (https://zpr.io/kQH49ttRawNZ) 

Documentaries - 

A recent PBS documentary, Pompeii: The New Dig (https://zpr.io/LV9sWKc4vbQ8) including segments on Steven Tuck’s work.

Photos and Maps - 

To trace building locations or names of home owners as well as photos of every square inch of Pompeii: https://pompeiiinpictures.com/pompeiiinpictures/

From Steven Tuck: “If someone has an otherwise unbeatable case of insomnia, my preliminary publication of findings is in Reflections: Harbour City Deathscapes in Roman Italy and Beyond” (https://zpr.io/3pETS53A9CtF)

Brief description of the casts and casting process of the remains found at Pompeii: https://pompeiisites.org/en/pompeii-map/analysis/the-casts/

Maps of the Ancient Roman world that you can use to trace some of the land and sea routes discussed in the episode: https://orbis.stanford.edu

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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It's the most intimate moment of the Radio 4 schedule: The late-night Shipping Forecast, a prelude to the close-down of the station, read every night at 00:48. But who is really listening along, and why? Guided by Radio 4 Announcer Al Ryan, we'll cross the world to meet the people who find comfort in this unique broadcast for a variety of reasons.

Produced by Luke Doran

Last year, China’s foreign minister, Qin Gang, suddenly disappeared. Qin was a rising star in Chinese politics and a protegé of China’s strongman leader, Xi Jinping. In the first episode of our three-part investigation, we chart Qin’s rise and begin to untangle the mystery of his disappearance. This series was originally published in October.

Further Listening:
- Episode 2: The Affair - Apple | Spotify
- Episode 3: The Downfall - Apple | Spotify

We'll be back with something new on January 2.

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Concerned neighbours ask Sue Mitchell for help in finding out how one man has taken control of the finances of scores of vulnerable people.

This is the hidden scandal of Power of Attorney.

In Hertfordshire towns, people who live alone are disappearing. Their neighbours are wondering why they’ve not seen them, or if they might have died.

Giving someone else control of your finances and decisions – through Lasting Power of Attorney – is meant to come with a guarantee that they always act in your best interest. In this series, BBC investigative reporter Sue Mitchell explores a widespread business practice where some people are moved out of their homes and left with no idea what is happening to their money.

Shadow World: Gripping stories from the shadows - BBC investigations from across the UK.

Presented by Sue Mitchell

April, 1883. A terrified young woman named Helen Stoner arrives at 221B Baker Street seeking Sherlock Holmes's help. Two years prior, her twin sister died under mysterious circumstances at Stoke Moran, their family's decaying manor house, her final words an enigmatic warning about a "speckled band." Chillingly, in the days before her death, she'd begun hearing an eerie whistle in the dead of night. Now living in her dead sister's room due to house repairs, Helen has started to hear that same whistle — and fears she may be next. 

A Noiser production, written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Narrated by: Hugh Bonneville

Produced by Katrina Hughes and Addison Nugent

Sound Design and Audio Editing by Thomas Pink

Compositions: Dorry Macaulay and Oliver Baines

Mix & Mastering: Cody Reynolds-Shaw

Series Consultant: Dan Smith

For ad-free listening and early access to new episodes, join Noiser+. Click the Noiser+ banner to get started. Or, if you’re on Spotify or Android, go to noiser.com/subscriptions

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