The Bandwich Tapes

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with mandolinist, singer, and recording engineer Ethan Setiawan to talk about his new album, Little Storms, and the musical relationships that have shaped the band behind it. Ethan talks about meeting his bandmates during his years in Boston and why chemistry, listening, and simply getting along can be every bit as important as technical ability when putting a group together.

We also trace Ethan’s path on the mandolin, from learning bluegrass and old-time music as a young player to winning the National Mandolin Championship at seventeen. He reflects on the value of competitions as developmental milestones, the communal nature of bluegrass festivals, and the musicians who helped expand his idea of what the mandolin could do, including Mike Marshall and Jacob Jolliff.

Ethan takes me inside the making of Encyclopedia Mandolinica, his collection of mandolin duets and trios, and explains what recording with different players taught him about working efficiently in the studio. We also talk about his experience as an engineer and mixer, the importance of stepping away from a project to regain perspective, and the value of working with an engineer you trust.

With Little Storms, Ethan has also stepped more fully into the role of lead singer. We talk about recording the band live in a room together, the concentration required to sing and play mandolin simultaneously, and why he is particularly proud of the way his vocals and the ensemble came together on the record.

Along the way, we discuss Ethan’s years at Berklee, the changing realities of building a career as an independent musician, and the tension between music that develops slowly and a social media culture built around short-form content. For Ethan, the heart of it still comes back to playing live, listening closely, and making music with people he trusts.

Key Takeaways

• Ethan believes a successful band depends heavily on chemistry, listening, and the ability of musicians to adapt to one another—not simply individual technical ability.

• Bluegrass and old-time music were Ethan’s entry points into the mandolin, and after exploring jazz and other styles, he has increasingly returned to those roots.

• Winning the National Mandolin Championship at seventeen gave Ethan a valuable developmental benchmark, although he sees competition as very different from the collaborative spirit of making music.

• Mike Marshall has been a major influence on Ethan because of his ability to move naturally between bluegrass, jazz, Brazilian choro, and other musical traditions.

• Recording Encyclopedia Mandolinica taught Ethan how to enter a studio, focus quickly, and create strong performances within relatively short sessions.

• Ethan’s engineering experience has helped him make records more independently, while also teaching him the importance of leaving time between recording, editing, and mixing to regain perspective.

• On Little Storms, Ethan challenged himself to sing lead while playing mandolin live with the band, an experience that changed how he thinks about simplicity, concentration, and serving the music.

Music from the Episode

I Didn't Try Hard Enough - Ethan Setiawan
The Harbor Walk - Ethan Setiawan
Whiskey Boys - Ethan Setiawan

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a music interview podcast hosted by Brad Williams featuring conversations with musicians, songwriters, producers, and other creative artists. Each episode explores the experiences behind the music—from influences and collaboration to technique, creativity, recording, touring, and the lifelong process of becoming a better musician.

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On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with Sarah Anderson and Paul DeHaven of Heavy Diamond Ring for a conversation about a musical partnership that has lasted more than two decades, the evolution of their approach to making records, and the band’s new EP, Let Love Be Enough.

Sarah and Paul first met when they were young musicians in Colorado and quickly began making music together. Their partnership eventually led to more than a decade in Paper Bird and, later, Heavy Diamond Ring. We talk about what allows a musical relationship to survive that long, why friendship and humor matter as much as musicianship, and how Heavy Diamond Ring developed into a band where listening to one another is more important than filling every available space.

That idea of space becomes a big part of our conversation. Paul talks about moving away from a more cerebral approach to playing and becoming increasingly interested in restraint, feel, and music that creates a place for the listener to inhabit. Sarah describes a similar evolution, from wanting to fill every space and make everything perfect to realizing that sometimes the most powerful thing a band can do is simply let a song breathe.

We also dig into the making of Let Love Be Enough, which began when the band took advantage of some extra time on tour in Minnesota and decided to experiment with recording away from their usual environment. That experience eventually brought them back to Minnesota to finish the EP, giving the band a chance to rethink some of its usual studio habits. Sarah talks about gaining confidence as a singer in a different recording environment, while Paul discusses the creative value of limitations and treating each record as a snapshot of who the band is at that particular moment.

Throughout the conversation, we keep returning to the idea of capturing something human. Sarah and Paul talk about imperfection, live performance, musical communication, and why a record doesn’t have to be polished into perfection to be right. We also discuss Sarah’s vocal influences, including Dolly Parton, Joni Mitchell, Fleetwood Mac, and Courtney Marie Andrews, the band’s connection to the sounds of the 1970s, and why Heavy Diamond Ring ultimately wants its records to sound and feel like people making music together.

Key Takeaways

• Sarah Anderson and Paul DeHaven have been making music together for more than two decades, beginning when they were young musicians in Colorado and continuing through Paper Bird and Heavy Diamond Ring.

• Friendship, communication, and humor have been essential to their musical partnership and to the chemistry of Heavy Diamond Ring.

• The band has gradually moved toward a more spacious approach to arranging, where restraint, listening, and knowing when not to play are as important as the notes themselves.

• Let Love Be Enough began during a tour stop in Minnesota, giving Heavy Diamond Ring an opportunity to experiment with recording away from its usual studio environment.

• Sarah found that working in a different studio and without the familiarity of recording with her brother helped build her confidence as a vocalist.

• The band increasingly views recording as capturing a moment rather than creating a definitive, perfect version of a song. Imperfection can preserve the humanity and communication of musicians playing together.

• Heavy Diamond Ring draws inspiration from the feel and sound of classic recordings while keeping the focus on songs, dynamics, collaboration, and the musical relationship between the players.

Music from the Episode

The One You Use - Heavy Diamond Ring
Problems Got Problems - Heavy Diamond Ring
Whatever You Need - Heavy Diamond Ring

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape their creative lives. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, and other artists for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the stories behind the music.

Connect with the Show

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with drummer, recording engineer, and educator Joel Rosenblatt for a conversation that goes well beyond drumming. Joel has spent his career moving between remarkably different musical environments, including Michel Camilo, Spyro Gyra, Pure Prairie League, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Broadway productions including In the Heights and Hamilton, and countless recording sessions.

We talk about the experiences that shaped Joel as a musician, including stepping into Michel Camilo’s band after a recommendation from Dave Weckl and suddenly finding himself in a rhythm section with Anthony Jackson. Joel shares what he learned about pocket, feel, and playing inside a great arrangement, and how those lessons changed when he joined Spyro Gyra and had to learn how to help build an entire musical arc over a vamp.

Joel also takes me inside the making of Spyro Gyra’s live album Road Scholars, his approach to playing with percussionists, and why hearing everyone onstage is essential to being a good ensemble musician. We get into his time with Pure Prairie League, where a very different kind of music taught him about feel, simplicity, and connecting with an audience.

We also talk about Joel’s work as a recording engineer and how working on the other side of the glass changed the way he hears his own playing. From recording drums at home to performing Broadway shows such as In the Heights, Mamma Mia!, On Your Feet!, and Hamilton, Joel explains why professionalism sometimes means bringing your personality to the music—and other times means playing exactly what the music requires.

Most importantly, this becomes a conversation about identity and change. Facing significant back problems and uncertainty about whether he will be able to continue playing drums, Joel speaks candidly about what happens when the thing you have done for most of your life may no longer define what comes next. We talk about career transitions, relationships, aging, creativity, and the possibility that a musician's next chapter can look very different without being any less meaningful.

Key Takeaways

• Joel explains how playing with Anthony Jackson reshaped his understanding of pocket and the role of the rhythm section.
• His transition from Michel Camilo to Spyro Gyra required learning how to create musical development over vamps rather than relying on the composition to provide the entire arc.
• Joel discusses the making of Spyro Gyra’s Road Scholars and why he personally listened through recordings from dozens of shows to help choose the performances used on the album.
• Great ensemble playing begins with listening. Joel explains why he wants to hear the entire band in his monitors rather than focusing only on his own instrument.
• Recording and engineering exposed details in Joel’s own playing and helped refine his relationship with time, feel, and the click.
• Broadway taught him a different kind of musicianship: respecting the written part, eliminating ego, and delivering the performance the production requires every night.
• Joel reflects candidly on physical limitations, aging, musical identity, and the difficult yet potentially rewarding process of reinventing oneself when life forces change.

Music from the Episode

• Heart of the Night - Spyro Gyra
• Why Not - Michel Camilo Trio
• Shaker Song - Spyro Gyra
• No Strings Attached - Double B Double V

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. Hosted by musician Brad Williams, the show features conversations with artists, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people about their careers, craft, collaborations, influences, and the realities of a life spent making music.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, or guest suggestions?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with keyboardist, composer, producer, and bandleader David Garfield for a conversation that quickly turns into a history lesson, a rhythm-section master class, and a look at what it actually means to spend a lifetime making music with other people.

David takes me back to his formative years in St. Louis, where he started on drums, discovered jazz through his high school stage band, and learned by getting on bandstands with working musicians around the city. Those experiences eventually led him to Los Angeles, where, still a teenager, he landed a gig with Freddie Hubbard and found himself immersed in one of the richest musical communities imaginable.

A major thread throughout our conversation is David’s relationship with drummers. We talk extensively about Carlos Vega, Jeff Porcaro, Vinnie Colaiuta, Jim Keltner, John “JR” Robinson, Greg Bissonette, Simon Phillips, Steve Ferrone, Joe Porcaro, and others. David explains how starting as a drummer shaped his approach to keyboards, timing, note placement, and groove—and why every great drummer requires a slightly different musical response.

We also dig into David’s Tribute to Jeff project and the philosophy behind assembling an extraordinary group of musicians to honor Jeff Porcaro through the thing that mattered most: the groove. David shares stories about Bernard Purdie, Don Henley, Eddie Van Halen, Greg Phillinganes, Carlos Vega, and the Porcaro family, while explaining why the project had to remain centered on Jeff rather than the famous musicians participating in it.

More than anything, this conversation is about listening. David talks about playing with bassists and guitarists, leaving room for other musicians, choosing the right people for a session, and creating an environment where musicians can bring their own personalities to the music. We also discuss his expansive Outside the Box recordings and his determination to document performances with musicians he admires while there is still an opportunity to get everyone into a room and make music together.

Key Takeaways

• David’s early years playing drums continue to shape his keyboard playing, particularly his sense of timing, groove, articulation, and interaction with a rhythm section.

• Growing up in St. Louis gave David an education that extended well beyond formal instruction. Playing jazz and R&B gigs with experienced musicians taught him how to listen, react, and function on a real bandstand.

• His friendship with Carlos Vega became a defining musical relationship. Carlos influenced David’s decision to focus on keyboards and later helped introduce him to the professional studio and touring world in Los Angeles.

• David approaches playing as a conversation. Rather than forcing every musician into a predetermined arrangement, he creates a framework and leaves room for musicians to respond to one another in real time.

• Tribute to Jeff was intentionally built around Jeff Porcaro’s musical legacy and the groove. David invited drummers connected to Jeff to choose grooves and musical ideas that reflected their relationships with him.

• For David, great rhythm-section playing depends as much on restraint as technique. Bassists, keyboardists, guitarists, and drummers have to listen to one another and understand when not to fill the available space.

• David’s Outside the Box recordings grew from a desire to document music with players he admired, ultimately expanding into a large collection that moves through jazz, funk, R&B, rock, vocal music, and other styles.

Music from the Episode

Hero with a 1000 Eyes - David Garfield
E Minor Shuffle - David Garfield
Babylon Sisters - David Garfield
What You Won't Do for Love - David Garfield
Teen Town - David Garfield

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative voices to talk about their careers, their craft, the records and performances that mattered, and the lessons they have learned along the way.

Connect with the Show

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On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with singer-songwriter Coyle Girelli for a conversation about melody, singing, collaboration, and the experiences that have shaped his songwriting. We spend a lot of time talking about his album Out of This Town and its deluxe edition, a collection with an unusual history that stretches back roughly a decade and grew out of his remarkable songwriting partnership with the late Mac Davis.

Coyle talks about meeting Mac after Mac saw him perform “Champion” with The Chevin on Letterman, and how their connection quickly developed into a prolific writing partnership. The songs often came together in an hour or two, but the experience had a lasting effect on Coyle. He describes his songwriting life as essentially “pre- and post-Mac,” crediting Mac with teaching him to pay closer attention to the craft and care behind every part of a song.

We also get into Coyle’s wide range of musical influences, his obsession with melody, and the quality he hears connecting artists as different as Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, Nirvana, Puccini, and Verdi: soul. For Coyle, great music ultimately comes down to sincerity, believing the song and communicating something genuinely human through it.

Coyle also shares stories from his years of collaborating with other artists and songwriters, including Linda Perry, Amy Allen, LP, and others, as well as the unexpected journey of BTS recording one of his songs. We talk about his move from Yorkshire to New York, the pressures of working within the major-label system, his approach to recording vocals, and why he prefers to capture performances before overthinking them.

We close with a fascinating look at Calm + Collected, the music group Coyle co-founded to support artists working in jazz, classical, ambient, wellness, and other listening spaces. That leads us into a broader conversation about streaming, the changing music business, artificial intelligence, albums, and why Coyle believes that no matter how technology changes, people will continue to need music made by other human beings.

Key Takeaways

• Coyle sees melody as one of the central elements of his musical life, both as a songwriter and as a listener.

• Working with Mac Davis fundamentally changed the way Coyle approached songwriting, adding a deeper level of attention and craftsmanship to instincts he had already developed.

• Out of This Town was never originally conceived as an album. It emerged naturally from Coyle and Mac spending time together and writing songs, some of which were completed in only an hour or two.

• The album’s long journey ultimately led to Sun Records, a fitting home given Mac Davis’ connection to Elvis Presley and Sun’s place in music history.

• Writing with artists and songwriters including Linda Perry, Amy Allen, and LP helped Coyle expand his creative vocabulary and reinforced his belief that every collaboration offers something to learn.

• As a singer, Coyle prefers capturing vocals in one or two takes, believing that overthinking or oversinging can gradually diminish the performance.

• Despite enormous changes in technology, distribution, streaming, and AI, Coyle believes the essential purpose of music remains unchanged: one human translating experience and emotion into sound for another human to receive.

Music from the Episode

Out of This Town - Coyle Girelli
It Only Hurts When I'm Awake - Coyle Girelli
Lost To the River - Coyle Girelli (with KT Tunstall)

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape their creative lives. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, and other artists for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the stories behind the music.

Connect with the Show

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with Brian Sachs, drummer, songwriter, and co-founder of Mynd Reader, for a conversation about returning to music, discovering songwriting later in life, and learning to approach creativity with a different set of priorities.

Brian’s first musical life took place in New York City with The Authority, a band that came up alongside the Spin Doctors, Blues Traveler, and Joan Osborne in the city’s club scene. After years away from making music, Brian eventually found his way back, but without the ambition and competitiveness that accompanied his younger years. With Mynd Reader, he describes making music from a place of gratitude, curiosity, and a desire to serve the song rather than himself.

We spend a lot of time talking about craft. Brian explains how his background as a drummer shapes his songwriting, why new ideas need a safe collaborative environment, and how his partnership with Tonin allows fragile ideas to develop without being dismissed too quickly. We also get into his evolution as a drummer,  from progressive rock influences like Bill Bruford, Phil Collins, Keith Moon, and Stewart Copeland to discovering James Brown, funk, Latin rhythms, and a completely different understanding of groove.

We also dig into Mynd Reader’s new EP, Sunday Drive, and the decision to record the band without a click, allowing the music to breathe naturally. Brian talks about working with Grammy-winning mixer Michael Brauer, the importance of Shelby Kemp’s voice and the lyrical content of the songs, and the band’s attempt to capture something timeless rather than simply make stripped-down versions of previously recorded material.

At the center of the conversation is an idea Brian returns to repeatedly: serve the song. Whether he’s writing, playing drums, collaborating with another musician, or deciding not to play at all, Brian has learned that maturity in music often means knowing when to step forward — and when to leave space for somebody else.

Key Takeaways

• Returning to music later in life gave Brian a different perspective, replacing much of the ambition and competitiveness of his younger years with gratitude and appreciation.

• Brian discovered songwriting after years of identifying primarily as a drummer, and his rhythmic background continues to shape the melodies and phrasing of his lyrics.

• His songwriting partnership with Tonin depends on trust and a “yes, and” approach that allows vulnerable new ideas to develop before they are judged.

• Brian’s early drumming influences included Bill Bruford, Phil Collins, Keith Moon, Stewart Copeland, and Ian Paice, but his time with The Authority introduced him to James Brown, funk, Latin rhythms, and a much broader concept of groove.

• Playing alongside bassist Zach Jackson reinforces Brian’s belief that tone, feel, instinct, and listening matter more than technical display.

• Mynd Reader recorded the six songs on Sunday Drive in roughly ten hours without a click, allowing the tempos to move naturally with the emotional needs of the songs.

• Working with Michael Brauer helped the band approach Sunday Drive as something more than an acoustic reinterpretation. The goal was to create different versions of the songs built around Shelby Kemp’s voice, the lyrics, and an easy, timeless musical feel.

Music from the Episode

• Still Uncertain - Mynd Reader
• Soundtrack of Life - Mynd Reader
• Mourning Light - Mynd Reader

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape a creative life. Hosted by musician Brad Williams, the show features conversations with artists, songwriters, producers, composers, and other music professionals about their careers, creative processes, collaborations, influences, and the craft behind their work.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, or guest suggestions?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with South Carolina country artist Kile Antone for a conversation about music, songwriting, faith, identity, and finding your way back to something you thought you had left behind.

Kile’s path to country music has been anything but conventional. He began playing guitar as a teenager, but life eventually took him into law enforcement, ministry, and work as a paramedic. For nearly 30 years, he rarely performed country music in public. Then, a few years ago, he walked into an open mic with his guitar, so nervous he was physically shaking, and sang a few songs. That night started a new chapter.

We spend a lot of time talking about how those years away from the stage now inform Kile’s songwriting. His song “Drink Some More” grew from a late-night message from someone going through a difficult moment and Kile’s own memories of growing up in a home affected by alcoholism and violence. We talk about protecting the people behind a song while still preserving its emotional truth, why a song doesn’t have to follow a prescribed structure, and how country music can say an enormous amount with very little.

The conversation also moves into more personal territory as Kile talks about separating who he is from the roles he has occupied throughout his life. He shares a powerful story about being asked by a counselor, “Who is Kile Antone?” and realizing that pastor, police officer, and paramedic were answers to what he did—not who he was. That leads us into a discussion about music as a place where he can simply be himself, and about how age and perspective can change the reasons we make music in the first place.

We also talk about performing solo versus playing with a band, learning to read a room, his Open Range Band and Stormfront Band, and the new opportunities that have emerged through his friendship and work with country artist Leon Everett. Kile also shares what’s ahead, including his first album, original songs, a duet with Leon Everett, and his recording of George Strait’s “Christmas Cookies.”

Key Takeaways

• Kile returned to performing country music after nearly 30 years away from the public stage, beginning with three songs at a local open mic.

• His experiences in law enforcement, ministry, and emergency medicine have given him a deep reservoir of real-life stories and emotions to draw from as a songwriter.

• “Drink Some More” was written in roughly 30 minutes after Kile received a late-night message from someone dealing with the consequences of alcohol and conflict.

• Kile believes in protecting the identities of the people who inspire his songs while remaining faithful to the emotional truth of their stories.

• His unconventional journey back to music has become as much about rediscovering his identity as it is about building a career.

• Performing has given Kile an outlet separate from the weight and responsibility that have accompanied much of his professional life.

• His growing musical career includes solo performances, the Open Range Band, Kile Antone and the Stormfront Band, recordings with Leon Everett, and work toward his first full album.

Music from the Episode

Drink Some More - Kile Antone
 

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape the way they make it. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people for conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the stories behind the music.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, or guest suggestions? 
Reach out at [email protected].

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with James Woods for a conversation centered on a part of his creative life that may surprise people who primarily know him as an actor: songwriting.

James talks about the remarkable burst of creativity that has produced more than 75 songs and a series of concept albums created alongside Shooter Jennings and Bob Wayne. We dig into his upcoming album, The Killer’s Wife, the single “The Hearts of Men,” and the real-life experience that became the starting point for the album’s fictional story.

What interested me most was the difference James sees between acting and songwriting. As an actor, he spent decades interpreting someone else’s words and vision. Songwriting has given him the opportunity to begin with a blank page and say exactly what he wants to say. We talk about writing quickly, trusting instinct, revising individual words until they feel right, and what happens when a song seems to arrive almost fully formed.

James also takes us inside the collaborative process with Shooter Jennings, Bob Wayne, and the musicians who bring these records to life. He describes watching players hear a song, make a chart, and begin shaping the music almost immediately — and how their individual choices can transform the emotional meaning of something he originally wrote alone.

Ultimately, this is a conversation about creative second acts. James reflects on finding a new artistic path later in life, writing from personal experience, creating his own record label, and why he believes artists should look for ways to retain control of their work. For someone who spent much of his career bringing other people’s stories to life, songwriting has become an opportunity to finally tell his own.

Key Takeaways

• James Woods has written more than 75 songs and describes songwriting as an unexpected creative outpouring that emerged later in his life.

• He sees a fundamental difference between acting and songwriting: acting is interpretive, while songwriting allows him to originate the words, ideas, and perspective himself.

• His collaboration with Shooter Jennings began during the COVID era and eventually expanded to include Bob Wayne, with whom Woods developed an unusually fast and productive writing partnership.

• Concept albums have become central to Woods’ approach. Rather than treating songs as isolated pieces, he likes creating records connected by characters, ideas, imagery, and narrative themes.

• The Killer’s Wife grew from an experience Woods had as a young man, but he transformed that memory into a fictional narrative rather than attempting to document the actual people involved.

• Woods places enormous value on the contributions of musicians in the studio, describing how players such as Aubrey Richmond, Jamie Douglass, John Schreffler Jr., and Ted Russell Kamp can dramatically reshape a song through instinctive musical choices.

• Woods views this period as a creative second act and hopes his independent approach to making and releasing music can encourage other artists to find ways to maintain greater control of their work.

Music from the Episode

• Song - Artist

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape a creative life. Hosted by musician Brad Williams, the show features conversations with artists, songwriters, producers, composers, and other music professionals about their careers, creative processes, collaborations, influences, and the craft behind their work.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, or guest suggestions?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with drummer and educator Nate Morton for a wide-ranging conversation about musicianship, preparation, versatility, listening, and the skills that build a career long after you leave the practice room.

Nate is best known to many listeners as the drummer for NBC’s The Voice, a gig that requires him to move effortlessly between rock, pop, country, R&B, blues, and just about anything else that lands on the music stand. We talk about how a childhood filled with everything from KISS and Michael Jackson to George Clinton, the Beatles, the O’Jays, the Temptations, Barry White, and Booker T. & the M.G.’s helped build that musical vocabulary. Nate explains why his goal was never to become the “rock guy” or the “jazz guy.” He wanted to become the always-employed guy.

But much of our conversation is about what happens beyond the notes. Nate and I dig into preparation, organization, punctuality, adaptability, and musicians' responsibility to the people around them. He shares lessons from his time at Berklee College of Music, including the realization that learning what not to play can be just as important as developing the ability to play. A story about watching Abraham Laboriel Jr. take a four-bar solo becomes a lesson in confidence, restraint, and musical maturity.

We also delve deeply into the relationship among drums, bass, singers, and the rest of the band. Nate explains how he adjusts his playing to different vocalists, why listening matters more than showing off, and how his relationship with bassist Sasha Krivtsov on The Voice allows the rhythm section to constantly react and adapt to one another. His philosophy is simple: the band only sounds good when everyone sounds good.

Along the way, we talk about teaching, technology, learning music before everything was a click away, the value of relationships, and why small interactions can have an enormous impact on another musician. This one became much more than a conversation about drumming. It’s about professionalism, curiosity, generosity, and what it actually takes to build a life in music.

Key Takeaways

• Preparation extends far beyond practicing your instrument. Being on time, organized, dependable, adaptable, and respectful of other people’s time can be as important to a career as technical ability.
• Versatility creates opportunity. Nate intentionally developed enough vocabulary across multiple styles to walk into different musical situations comfortably. His goal was to become the “always-employed guy.”
• Listening is one of the most important skills on the bandstand. Whether working with a singer, bassist, guitarist, or an entire ensemble, Nate constantly adjusts his playing according to what everyone else is doing.
• Great musicians know when not to play. Nate’s story about Abraham Laboriel Jr. at Berklee illustrates how confidence and restraint can communicate more than filling every available space.
• Adaptability matters more than perfect circumstances. From forgotten floor tom legs to unfamiliar backline setups, Nate learned that sometimes you simply have to “sit down and make music.”
• Music school can give you tools, but the real world teaches you where to use them. Berklee gave Nate technical vocabulary and a safe environment to make mistakes, while professional gigs taught him context, restraint, and musical judgment.
• Relationships matter. Nate sees genuine human interaction as one of the central principles of both his career and his life, whether he is working with another musician, teaching a student, or answering a question from someone who reaches out online.

Music from the Episode

• I Think I Just Said That - Fraud Prophets
• Scrubs - Fraud Prophets
• Homer's Journey - Fraud Prophets
• Moths and Mosquitoes - Fraud Prophets

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the realities of making music. The goal is simple: get beyond the résumé and talk about how music actually gets made.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just want to say hello?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with legendary drummer Joey Baron for one of the most thoughtful conversations I’ve ever had about what it truly means to make music. Rather than talking about chops or technique, Joey takes us deep into the ideas of touch, tone, sound production, and why a musician’s relationship with space is just as important as the notes they choose to play.

We explore Joey’s remarkable career, from growing up in Richmond, Virginia, to studying briefly at Berklee before learning on the bandstand alongside musicians like Joe Lovano and John Scofield. He shares stories about playing with Carmen McRae, Bill Frisell, John Abercrombie, Jim Hall, David Bowie, Laurie Anderson, Brian Eno, Steve Kuhn, and many more, but what emerges isn’t a collection of famous names. It’s a philosophy of listening deeply and serving the music above everything else.

Our conversation also dives into the pursuit of personal sound. Joey explains how losing all of his cymbals early in his career unexpectedly changed the way he thought about instruments, leading him to focus less on equipment and more on touch, tone, and expression. Along the way, we discuss why great musicians sound like themselves regardless of the instrument they’re playing, why the best artists never waste notes, and how silence can often communicate more than virtuosity.

It’s a conversation about listening, not just to music, but to people, spaces, and the world around us—and why that kind of attention remains one of the greatest gifts a musician can develop.

Key Takeaways

• Joey explains why touch and sound production matter more than technical ability or expensive instruments.
• We discuss how tuning drums is influenced by the acoustics of each performance space rather than fixed settings.
• Joey shares lessons learned from artists including Carmen McRae, Jim Hall, John Abercrombie, Steve Kuhn, Bill Frisell, David Bowie, Brian Eno, and Laurie Anderson.
• Losing his cymbals early in his career forced him to rethink his relationship with equipment and focus on creating sound from whatever instruments were available.
• Joey reflects on why great musicians never waste notes and how silence is often one of music’s most powerful tools.
• We explore the value of musical curiosity beyond genres and why listening broadly shaped his artistic voice.
• Joey discusses his current work in Europe and why creating music that genuinely moves people remains his guiding purpose.

Music from the Episode

• Faith in You - Marc Johnson
• You Bet - John Scofield
• Just You, Just Me - Joey Baron & MixMonk
• Outside - David Bowie

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a long-form interview podcast where I sit down with musicians, composers, producers, and music industry veterans to explore the creative decisions that shape great music. Together we dig into artistry, collaboration, musical philosophy, and the experiences that define a lifetime of making music.

Connect with the Show

Email: [email protected]