The Bandwich Tapes

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with acclaimed percussionist Joby Burgess for a fascinating conversation about life as one of the world’s most in-demand recording musicians. From film scores and orchestral performances to contemporary classical music and solo projects, Joby shares what it really means to build a career grounded in versatility, collaboration, and an endless curiosity about sound.

We talk about the unique challenges of being a modern percussionist, where every project might require a completely different set of instruments, techniques, and musical vocabulary. Joby explains how he prepares for sessions, why he thinks of collections of percussion instruments as a single musical voice, and how years of experience have taught him to focus on melody, phrasing, and storytelling rather than simply striking objects.

Our conversation also explores the creative process behind recording major film scores, including his work with Ludwig Göransson on The Odyssey. Joby offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at how composers, producers, engineers, and percussionists collaborate to discover sounds that often don’t yet exist. From bringing collections of gongs into the studio to improvising solutions with whatever objects are nearby, every recording session becomes an exercise in creative problem-solving.

Along the way, we revisit the music that shaped Joby’s artistic path, including Stravinsky, Frank Zappa, Edgard Varèse, and contemporary composers such as Steve Reich and Morton Feldman. It’s a conversation about listening deeply, embracing collaboration, and discovering that a great percussionist is often as much a musical problem solver as a performer.

Key Takeaways

• Joby explains how modern percussionists constantly shift between instruments while maintaining a single musical voice.
• We discuss the similarities between performing contemporary classical music and recording major Hollywood film scores.
• Joby shares how collaboration with composers often begins long before recording, helping shape the palette of sounds available for a project.
• He offers behind-the-scenes insight into recording The Odyssey with Ludwig Göransson and the creative process of finding the perfect percussion sounds.
• We explore the influence of Frank Zappa, Stravinsky, Edgard Varèse, Steve Reich, and other composers on Joby’s musical development.
• Joby reflects on why experience, adaptability, and problem-solving have become some of the most valuable skills in his career.
• We discuss the importance of learning from master musicians and why observing great players can be as valuable as formal instruction.

Music from the Episode

• Psappha (Iannis Xenakis) - Joby Burgess, percussion
• The King of Denmark (Morton Feldman) - Joby Burgess, percussion
• Troy, from The Odyssey (Ludwig Göransson) - Joby Burgess, percussion
• Concerto for Bass Drum and Orchestra (Gabriel Prokofiev) - Joby Burgess, percussion

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a long-form interview podcast where I sit down with musicians, composers, producers, and music industry veterans to explore the stories behind their careers, creative process, collaborations, and musical philosophy. Every episode goes beyond biography to examine how great music is actually made.

Connect with the Show

Email: [email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with singer-songwriter Aubory Bugg for a conversation about songwriting, collaboration, musical identity, and the experiences that shaped her forthcoming album, I Think I Had Something Once.

Aubory grew up in Granite City, Illinois, just outside of St. Louis, and we talk about how that small-town perspective continues to find its way into her writing. She explains how songs like “Steel Mill Town” helped her move beyond writing exclusively about her own emotions and toward observing the people, places, and details around her. We also talk about her move to Nashville and the community she has found among a close group of independent folk singer-songwriters.

We spend a good part of the conversation digging into craft. Aubory traces her path from singing as a child to trumpet, piano, and eventually guitar, including her time studying songwriting at Webster University and performing in jazz ensembles around St. Louis. She shares how studying with vocalist Debbie Lennon helped her move away from oversinging and begin thinking more carefully about why a vocal embellishment belongs in a song at all.

Aubory also takes me inside the making of I Think I Had Something Once, including her work with producers and collaborators Matt and John. We talk about the value of creative tension, surrendering part of your original vision to trusted collaborators, recording vocals with only a handful of complete takes, and why bringing other musicians into the process has changed the way she thinks about making records.

We also get into the wonderfully old-school story of Aubory walking into Dualtone with her guitar and playing two songs live—a decision that helped lead to her signing with the label. And we close by talking about her first headlining show in London, the connection that happens when people in another country know every word to your songs, and what she hopes to build as this new record makes its way into the world.

Key Takeaways

• Growing up in Granite City, Illinois, gave Aubory an appreciation for small details, close communities, and the kind of observational writing that now plays an important role in her songs.
• Writing “Steel Mill Town” helped her realize that some of her strongest songwriting happens when she turns her attention outward and writes about the world around her.
• Aubory’s musical background includes singing, trumpet, piano, guitar, jazz ensembles, songwriting studies, live performance, and learning music production.
• Her time studying voice at Webster University taught her to think critically about vocal embellishment and to ask whether every riff, belt, or melodic choice is actually serving the lyric.
• Working with collaborators Matt and John has taught Aubory to embrace healthy creative tension and allow other musicians to challenge her original ideas.
• Her current vocal recording process often involves three or four complete takes followed by a comp, allowing her to preserve performances rather than constructing every phrase individually.
• Aubory’s belief that her music is best understood live helped inspire her to take a guitar into Dualtone and perform two songs in person—an approach she says played an important part in her signing with the label.

Music from the Episode

• i think i had something once - Aubory Bugg
• nosedive - Aubory Bugg
• the one you want to lose - Aubory Bugg

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a music interview podcast hosted by Brad Williams featuring thoughtful conversations with musicians, songwriters, producers, and other creative people. Each episode goes beyond the résumé to explore how music gets made—the choices, relationships, influences, challenges, and experiences that shape a creative life.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, or guest suggestions?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with drummer Pat Steward for a wide-ranging conversation about groove, feel, listening, and the experiences that shape a musician over a lifetime. Pat has spent decades behind the kit, including a long history with Bryan Adams, and I had the chance to see him perform in St. Louis shortly before we recorded this conversation. Watching him play reinforced something I have always admired about his drumming: there are no wasted notes. Everything serves the song, the singer, and the musicians around him.

We talk about the current Bryan Adams tour and what allows a highly produced arena show to feel still spontaneous and alive. Pat explains his evolving relationship with playing to a click, the importance of supporting a singer, and why feel can be difficult to reduce to a technical formula. We also get into the band's current four-piece configuration, with Bryan handling much of the bass playing himself, and how that change has created a different rhythm-section dynamic.

Pat takes me back to his beginnings as a young drummer, from hearing The Beatles and Creedence Clearwater Revival to learning songs by playing along with the radio and records. We talk about Bad Company, Linda Ronstadt, KISS, Rush, AC/DC, jazz education, school bands, and the value of learning to function in as many different musical situations as possible. That curiosity has never left him. Our conversation moves naturally through Tony Williams, Steve Gadd, Jim Keltner, Elvin Jones, Vinnie Colaiuta, David Garibaldi, Bill Stewart, and the drummers and records that continue to inspire him.

We also spend a lot of time talking about recording: drum tuning, microphones, engineers, producers, and the difference between capturing music and overworking it. Pat shares stories about recording with Bob Rock, discusses the influence and meticulous approach of Mutt Lange, and makes a compelling case for trusting musicians, listening to the drum kit as a complete instrument, and recognizing when the best performance may already have happened in the first couple of takes.

Ultimately, this is a conversation about experience. Pat and I talk about knowing when to use the pencil and when to use the eraser, how songs change after decades of performing them, and why great musicianship often comes down to listening carefully enough to understand what the music actually needs.

Key Takeaways

• Pat approaches drumming by putting groove, feel, and the singer first, with every part designed to support the song rather than draw unnecessary attention to the drums.
• Playing with a click became less about restricting feel and more about creating a dependable framework in which Pat can still push, pull, and shape the music.
• The current Bryan Adams band has developed a different rhythmic identity with Bryan playing bass on portions of the show and keyboardist Gary Breit covering other bass parts.
• Pat's musical vocabulary grew from playing along with radio and records, studying everything from Bad Company, AC/DC, KISS, and Rush to bebop, jazz ensembles, and big-band music.
• His early experiences in rock bands, concert bands, stage bands, and jazz education taught him to adapt his playing to the music around him rather than force a single approach on every situation.
• Pat sees live performance and studio recording as related but distinct disciplines: live music benefits from energy and spontaneity, while recording often demands patience, restraint, and attention to the larger sonic picture.
• Decades of experience have reinforced the importance of trusting musicians, preserving the energy of early takes, and knowing when additional notes—or additional production—actually help the music.

Music from the Episode

• Cuts Like a Knife - Bryan Adams
• Truth Untold - Odds
• I Thought I'd Seen Everything - Bryan Adams
• Into the Mystic - Colin James

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a music interview podcast hosted by Brad Williams, featuring thoughtful conversations with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people. Each episode explores the experiences, decisions, collaborations, and musical ideas behind a life spent making music.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, or guest suggestions:

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with multi-instrumentalist, composer, arranger, producer, and engineer Giulio Carmassi for a conversation about instinct, perseverance, and the unexpected turns that shape a life in music.

Giulio takes me back to his childhood in Pisa, Italy, where he began on drums before discovering jazz harmony at the piano. By his teens, he was improvising on multiple instruments and learning alongside musicians several times his age. He shares how moving to the United States at 22 opened doors that had seemed firmly closed and how his ability to play nearly anything eventually became his greatest strength.

We dig into Giulio's work with Will Lee, Steve Gadd, Chuck Loeb, and Emmy Rossum, as well as the remarkable path that led him into the Pat Metheny Unity Group. Giulio tells the story behind his "First Circle" video, the grueling month he spent learning its guitar part, and the surreal experience of recording KIN (←→) with Pat Metheny, Antonio Sánchez, Chris Potter, and Ben Williams.

Giulio also speaks candidly about the pressure of performing at that level, the discipline of leaving space, and what it means to listen with complete attention. We close by exploring his transition into composing and commercial music, his collaboration with Brian Scary, and why the human movement of a great rhythm section can never be reduced to a grid.

Key Takeaways

• Becoming a father gave Giulio a sharper understanding of time, priorities, and the importance of saying no to work that does not matter.
• His multi-instrumental approach was once treated as a professional liability, but it ultimately created opportunities that specialization could not have provided.
• Giulio's move from Pisa to the United States showed him the power of an environment that rewards curiosity, hard work, and initiative.
• His opportunity with Pat Metheny grew out of years of preparation, a personal recommendation, and an extraordinary month spent learning "First Circle," one measure at a time.
• Playing with musicians such as Steve Gadd and Will Lee taught Giulio that trust, generosity, and personal connection are inseparable from great musical performances.
• His time in the Pat Metheny Unity Group honed his ability to concentrate, adapt, and perform under pressure.
• Giulio believes the feel of master musicians comes from confident, human interaction, not from mechanically conforming every note to a grid.

Music from the Episode

• Chasing Mornings - Giulio Carmassi
• Traccia Sconosciuta - Giulio Carmassi
• Ten Thousand Birds - Giulio Carmassi
• Path Through the Jungle - Giulio Carmassi
• Can't Stop It - Giulio Carmassi

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape a creative life. Host Brad Williams sits down with musicians, songwriters, producers, and other artists for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, and the moments that happen both on and off the bandstand.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, and guest suggestions:

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with SAVNT, lead singer of Ghost Hounds, for a conversation about the band’s new album Justified, vocal interpretation, storytelling, musical identity, and the unexpected path that brought him into the group.

We spend a lot of time talking about SAVNT’s approach as a singer. Sam Cooke was one of his earliest and most important influences, but his musical upbringing was much broader than any one genre. Soul, rock, country, and pop all existed together in his home, and that openness still shapes the way he hears music today. As SAVNT puts it during our conversation, “soul is not a genre, it’s a feeling.” That idea becomes a through line for much of the episode.

We also get deep into the songwriting and recording process behind Ghost Hounds. SAVNT talks about working with Thomas Tull, who often approaches songs almost like a screenwriter, building characters, circumstances, and emotional backstories before SAVNT ever steps to the microphone. From there, the challenge becomes finding that character’s truth and connecting it to something real in his own life. We talk about why he prefers singing complete takes in the studio and why he sometimes keeps recording even after everyone else thinks they already have the vocal.

The story of how SAVNT joined Ghost Hounds is remarkable. After deciding to leave New York and move to Denver, one final performance in Brooklyn put him in front of the band’s former lead singer, who recommended him for the job. Only months later, SAVNT was touring with The Rolling Stones, meeting artists including Lainey Wilson and Patty Griffin, and eventually performing at the Grand Ole Opry. He and drummer Sydney Driver even joined the band on the same day, giving both of them someone else to navigate that transition alongside.

We also break down several songs on Justified, including “Sinner’s Prayer,” “Pale Horse,” “Something Wicked,” “After You,” and the band’s versions of “Gimme Shelter,” “Going Down,” and “Amazing Grace.” SAVNT explains why those older songs naturally became part of the album and why closing the record with “Amazing Grace” gives the entire project an emotional and spiritual destination. It’s a conversation about roots music, perseverance, collaboration, and what happens when a singer stops thinking about genre and starts thinking about truth.

Key Takeaways

• SAVNT’s vocal identity comes from an unusually broad musical foundation. Sam Cooke was a formative influence, but country, rock, soul, pop, and other styles were all part of his listening life from an early age.
• For SAVNT, soul is bigger than a genre. If a folk, bluegrass, country, rock, or jazz performance communicates something real enough to make him feel it, he considers that soul.
• Ghost Hounds approach songs as stories first. Thomas Tull often gives SAVNT detailed character and emotional context, allowing him to approach the vocal almost like an actor trying to find the truth of a role.
• SAVNT prefers recording complete vocal performances whenever possible. Singing the full song allows him to build naturally toward its emotional peaks instead of assembling the performance one isolated section at a time.
• Joining Ghost Hounds was the result of an unlikely chain of events. A final Brooklyn performance before SAVNT planned to move to Denver led to a recommendation, an audition, and ultimately a meeting with the band on January 1, 2024.
• SAVNT and drummer Sydney Driver joined Ghost Hounds on the same day. Their musical connection quickly became important, with SAVNT describing Sydney as an anchor whose playing helps guide his entrances and phrasing onstage.
• Justified developed organically rather than according to a rigid plan. Covers including “Gimme Shelter,” “Going Down,” and “Amazing Grace” were originally recorded without certainty that they would become part of an album, but eventually the music itself seemed to determine where they belonged.

Songs from the Episode

• Something Wicked - Ghost Hounds
• Sinner's Prayer - Ghost Hounds
• Gimme Shelter - Ghost Hounds
• Amazing Grace - Ghost Hounds
• Going Down - Ghost Hounds

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the realities of making music. The goal is simple: get beyond the résumé and talk about how music actually gets made.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just want to say hello?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with multi-instrumentalist and recording artist Erik Hall to talk about his evolving relationship with minimalist music. We begin with his large-ensemble interpretation of Simeon ten Holt’s Canto Ostinato, created in collaboration with Metropolis Ensemble and Sandbox Percussion following a performance at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden.

Erik takes me inside the challenges of moving from a solitary, multitracked recording process to an ensemble filled with individual players, instincts, and senses of time. We talk about tempo, repetition, concentration, and how a piece changes when musicians must listen, respond, and move through it together.

We also trace Erik’s path from childhood classical piano lessons through jazz drumming, rock bands, touring, and record-making. That wide musical background eventually brought him back to the piano and to solo interpretations of works by Steve Reich, Simeon ten Holt, Glenn Branca, Charlemagne Palestine, and Laurie Spiegel.  Along the way, Erik explains how microphone placement and instrumentation helped him build the sonic world of Music for 18 Musicians. He also reflects on the balance between honoring a score and giving himself enough freedom to discover something personal inside it.

We close with Erik’s return to original composition, the creative discipline of working every day, and the surprising power of writing music that can stand on its own in a single performance. We also talk about his recent time playing drums with Natalie Bergman—and why, behind the kit, feel matters far more than complexity.

Key Takeaways

• Erik’s large-ensemble version of Canto Ostinato grew from his 2023 solo recording and an invitation from Andrew Cyr of Metropolis Ensemble.
• The project began with a 52-musician performance at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden before being refined into a studio recording with Metropolis Ensemble and Sandbox Percussion.
• Playing repetitive music with an ensemble requires a different kind of attention than building it alone through overdubs, especially when navigating cues, repeats, tempo, and transitions.
• Erik’s background in classical piano, percussion, jazz drumming, guitar, touring, and studio recording all informs the way he approaches minimalist music.
• While recording Music for 18 Musicians, Erik used instrumentation and microphone placement to preserve the behavior of Steve Reich’s arrangement while creating a distinct sonic identity.
• Years of working on Canto Ostinato have transformed Erik’s piano playing and reconnected him with the patient, incremental process of learning music.
• Erik is now developing original material, including music conceived for solo piano or Fender Rhodes, while also working on a film score and considering future interpretive recordings.

Music from the Episode

• Music for 18 Musicians (Pulses) - Erik Hall
• Canto Ostinato - Erik Hall
• Strumming Music - Erik Hall
• Music for a Large Ensemble - Erik Hall
• The Temple of Venus - Erik Hall

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape their creative lives. Hosted by musician Brad Williams, each episode offers an honest, thoughtful conversation with artists, producers, engineers, and other members of the musical community.

Connect with the Show

Email: [email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with Italian guitarist, composer, producer, and sound engineer Emanuele Naima. Our conversation begins with Steve Reich's music and expands into a thoughtful exploration of sound, collaboration, and the freedom to pursue more than one creative path.

Emanuele tells me how his interest in minimalist music and academic research led him to reimagine all three movements of Reich’s Electric Counterpoint. By combining classical and electric guitars with synthesizers, handclaps, and snare drum, he honored the composition while creating a distinct atmosphere for each movement: memory, stillness, and conflict.

We also trace Emanuele’s musical life from beginning classical guitar at eight to completing 12 years of conservatory study. He shares the wonderfully varied music that filled his childhood home, including Pink Floyd, Aretha Franklin, Elton John, jazz, psychedelic music, and Michael Jackson. That open listening continues to shape a career that moves naturally among classical guitar, R&B, funk, ambient music, sound design, production, and live performance.

Emanuele also reflects on his work with Puka Shells Bling, the influence of playing funk and dub with other musicians, and the way collaboration changes everything from touch and tone to harmony and time. We close by discussing his ambient compositions, work with dance and choreography, improvised techno, and his willingness to keep experimenting without forcing every musical interest into a single identity.

Key Takeaways

• Emanuele’s reinterpretation of Electric Counterpoint began as part of a potential PhD proposal and later developed into a complete recording project.
• He combined classical guitar, electric guitar, synthesizers, handclaps, and snare drum while preserving the dynamics and structure of Steve Reich’s composition.
• Each movement became a different image for Emanuele: a memory, a peaceful refuge, and a scene of conflict.
• Twelve years of conservatory study gave him a classical foundation, while funk, dub, R&B, ambient music, and production expanded his sense of rhythm and sound.
• His childhood listening moved freely among Pink Floyd, Aretha Franklin, Elton John, jazz, psychedelic music, Metallica, Madonna, Lady Gaga, and Michael Jackson.
• Playing with other musicians taught Emanuele how touch, energy, harmony, tone, and placement within the beat become part of a musician’s identity.
• Rather than committing to a single narrow path, Emanuele is embracing experimentation across ambient music, dance, live performance, synthesizers, and improvised techno.

Music from the Episode

• Electric Counterpoint - I. Fast - Emanuele Naima
• Electric Counterpoint - III. Fast - Emanuele Naima
• Equilibri - Emanuele Naima

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about music, the people who make it, and the experiences that shape a creative life. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, and other artists for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, and the moments that happen both on and off the bandstand.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, and guest suggestions:

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with Chris Malpass of The Malpass Brothers for a conversation about traditional country music, brother harmony, gospel, and the music that Chris and his brother Taylor have carried with them since they were kids.

A big part of our conversation centers on their gospel project Satisfied and why making the album felt less like exploring new territory and more like coming home. Chris and Taylor started out singing gospel music when they were young, and many of these songs have been part of their musical vocabulary for years. We talk about working with Ben Isaacs, his role in shaping the project, and why recording it in front of a live audience captured something that would have been difficult to recreate in a studio.

Chris also talks about The Malpass Brothers’ relationship with Gaither Music and what it means to become part of an organization they grew up watching with their family. We get into the natural connection between traditional country and gospel music, from The Louvin Brothers and Merle Haggard to Buck Owens, Ernest Tubb, and the Happy Goodman Family. For Chris, those traditions aren’t separate worlds. They have always informed one another.

We also spend time talking about one of my favorite parts of The Malpass Brothers’ sound: Chris and Taylor’s harmony. Chris explains how naturally their vocal chemistry developed, why The Louvin Brothers became such an important influence, and how being siblings creates a musical connection that can be difficult to manufacture.

Along the way, we remember the great Jimmy Capps, talk about the upcoming season of The Malpass Brothers Show, a traditional country Christmas album, another appearance at the Grand Ole Opry, and a busy touring schedule. At the center of it all is a deep respect for the people and music that came before them — and a desire to keep those songs alive without turning them into museum pieces.

Key Takeaways

• Satisfied represents a return to The Malpass Brothers’ musical roots. Chris and Taylor performed gospel music as kids, making the project feel like a homecoming rather than a stylistic departure.
• Ben Isaacs helped shape the album while allowing Chris and Taylor to remain themselves. His suggestions included “Sheltered in the Arms of God” and Johnny Cash’s “Ragged Old Flag,” while encouraging the brothers to interpret the material in their own style.
• Recording the project live was essential to its character. Chris believes the shared connection between the performers, songs, and audience created an emotional quality that would have been difficult to reproduce in the studio.
• Country and gospel have always shared musical and emotional territory. Chris sees both traditions as music about real life — hardship, redemption, faith, struggle, and the things people hold onto when life gets difficult.
• Brother harmony developed naturally for Chris and Taylor. Their musical communication goes back to childhood, when Taylor began singing harmony with Chris without the two of them ever formally planning it.
• The Louvin Brothers remain a foundational influence. Chris points not only to Charlie and Ira Louvin’s harmony, but also their songwriting, gospel recordings, country recordings, and instrumental sound as an enduring model.
• Respect for musical history remains central to The Malpass Brothers. Whether talking about Jimmy Capps, Leon Rhodes, the Happy Goodman Family, Merle Haggard, or the Grand Ole Opry, Chris still approaches the people and traditions that shaped him with genuine admiration.

Songs from the Episode

• Satisfied - The Malpass Brothers

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the realities of making music. The goal is simple: get beyond the résumé and talk about how music actually gets made.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just want to say hello?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with Jeff Bush, director of the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra, for a conversation about swing music, leadership, ensemble playing, education, and the responsibility that comes with carrying one of American music’s great band traditions forward.

Jeff first joined the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra more than two decades ago when Buddy Morrow was leading the band, and after years spent pursuing other musical opportunities, he returned to take over the leadership role. We talk about what that job actually involves today — everything from hiring musicians, coordinating travel, and working with venues to choosing repertoire, writing arrangements, and making sure the band continues to sound authentic without becoming frozen in time.

A big part of our conversation centers on feel. Jeff breaks down how the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra sits rhythmically compared with other great bands, including the Glenn Miller Orchestra and Count Basie Orchestra, and why forward motion without rushing is such an important part of swing. We also talk about the relationship between the drummer and lead trumpet, the importance of strong section leaders, and how a great rhythm section can completely change the way an ensemble feels.

Jeff also shares the story of how he found the trombone, the influence of teachers who introduced him to great music, and what he learned both at Youngstown State University and the Manhattan School of Music. Just as importantly, we talk about the education that only comes from making gigs, being on the road, working with experienced musicians, and learning the professional skills that cannot be taught from a book.

We also get into Tommy Dorsey’s famous phrasing and breath control, including why singers such as Frank Sinatra paid such close attention to the way Dorsey played a melody. Jeff talks about his work as coordinator of jazz studies at Duquesne University, the changing realities of touring a seventeen-piece orchestra, and a new Tommy Dorsey Orchestra recording made largely as a working band with limited editing. At the heart of it all is Jeff’s belief that this music belongs to a continuum — something each generation has a responsibility to learn, respect, and keep moving forward.

Key Takeaways

• Leading the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra means much more than standing in front of the band. Jeff is involved in personnel, travel, venue coordination, programming, arranging, and the day-to-day decisions required to keep a large ensemble working.
• Preserving a musical legacy does not mean simply recreating the past. The orchestra performs a substantial amount of material associated with Tommy Dorsey, while Jeff also looks for ways to introduce repertoire that feels consistent with what Dorsey himself might have explored.
• Swing depends on the feel of the entire ensemble. The rhythm section provides the foundation, but lead players throughout the horn sections must understand where the beat sits for the band to truly lock together.
• The drummer and lead trumpet function almost like co-quarterbacks in a big band. Their relationship has an enormous influence on time, articulation, dynamics, and the overall direction of the ensemble.
• Tommy Dorsey approached the trombone like a singer. His breath control, phrasing, and awareness of the lyric helped redefine what the instrument could sound like and became an important influence on vocalists including Frank Sinatra.
• Professionalism is built from simple, controllable habits. Jeff stresses punctuality, attitude, appearance, preparation, and learning how to work well with people as essential parts of a sustainable music career.
• Playing with experienced musicians is an education of its own. Jeff believes younger players develop adaptability, humility, ensemble awareness, and professional instincts by spending time on actual bandstands with musicians who have already lived that life.

Music from the Episode

• Opus One - Tommy Dorsey Orchestra

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, educators, and other creative people for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the realities of making music. The goal is simple: get beyond the résumé and talk about how music actually gets made.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just want to say hello?

[email protected]

On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with singer-songwriter Josie Sal to talk about her new single “Cowboys & Barbies,” songwriting, finding her sound, and what she is learning as she begins building a career in music.

“Cowboys & Barbies” started as an idea Josie carried around for nearly two years before deciding she was ready to write it. We talk about working with co-writers Kelly Johnson and Mara Streppa, and how the song uses the childhood image of Ken and Barbie to explore a much bigger realization: growing up means discovering that life rarely follows the script you imagined. Josie also shares one of the most important lessons she has learned as a songwriter — most songs are part of the practice that eventually gets you to the one you really believe in.

We also get into the recording process with producer Brandon Hood. Josie explains how the original demo leaned much more toward pop and how Brandon helped move the song toward the country sound she heard in her head while still allowing it to feel like her. We talk about the small production details that give the track personality, including a toy-box-like sound in the bridge that subtly connects the arrangement back to the song’s fairy-tale imagery.

Josie tells me how unexpectedly singing entered her life after years of dancing. What began with her dad offering her twenty dollars to sing with a band during a family trip quickly developed into vocal lessons, performances, songwriting, and recording. We talk about how her background in dance helped shape her sense of rhythm and how she continues to work toward defining exactly what the Josie Sal sound should be.

We also spend time talking about family. Josie describes the support she gets from her parents and three older siblings, how closely connected they remain, and what it has meant to experience the early stages of her music career alongside them. With “Cowboys & Barbies” arriving August 21 and its music video following August 28, Josie is focused on writing, releasing more music, playing shows, and continuing to develop an artistic identity that feels completely her own.

Key Takeaways

• “Cowboys & Barbies” began as an idea Josie held onto for nearly two years. She waited until she felt ready to fully develop the concept rather than forcing the song before its time.
• The song is ultimately about growing up and letting go of the idea that life follows a predetermined script. The childhood imagery of Ken and Barbie becomes a way to examine expectations, relationships, and reality.
• Co-writing has taught Josie to value the process, not just the finished songs. She estimates that the overwhelming majority of songs a writer creates may simply be practice that leads to stronger work later.
• Producer Brandon Hood helped Josie move the song away from its pop-oriented demo and toward the country sound she envisioned. Small production ideas, including the toy-box texture in the bridge, helped reinforce the lyrical concept.
• Josie’s musical path began unexpectedly. After growing up primarily as a dancer, she first sang with a band at age ten after her father offered her twenty dollars to do it.
• Her family has become an important part of the journey. Josie’s parents have consistently supported their children’s interests, while her older siblings regularly attend shows, promote her music, and remain closely involved in her life.
• Josie’s current priority is defining her own sound. Beyond releasing individual songs, she is focused on writing extensively, performing, surrounding herself with the right team, and making sure future music sounds distinctly like Josie Sal.

Songs from the Episode

• Song - Artist

About the Podcast

The Bandwich Tapes is a podcast about the people who make music and the experiences that shape them. I sit down with musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and other creative people for thoughtful conversations about craft, collaboration, careers, influences, and the realities of making music. The goal is simple: get beyond the résumé and talk about how music actually gets made.

Connect with the Show

Questions, comments, guest suggestions, or just want to say hello?

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