In this final conversation on The Kindly Ones, I’m joined again by Tom Flynn to explore the last chaotic stretch of Jonathan Littell’s massive and deeply unsettling novel.

We talk about the feverish pacing, the bizarre turns, and the chilling final scenes—from Max biting Hitler’s nose to the feral children in the woods. Does the book fall apart, or is it mirroring the collapse of the world it depicts? Is Thomas even real? Why does it end in a zoo?

This book is hard to read, hard to recommend—and impossible to forget. If you finished it with us this summer, thank you for sticking it out. We made it.

Highlights include:

• Max’s descent into madness—and memory
• The tonal split after he’s shot
• Murder, guilt, and the arrival of the Kindly Ones
• Incest, hallucination, and historical ambiguity
• What’s up with the zoo ending?

Links
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Why do some readers gravitate toward sprawling, ambitious novels that take weeks—or even months—to read? What is it about long books that makes them so immersive, so risky, and so rewarding?

In this episode of The Big Book Project, Lori Feathers is joined once again by writer and professor James Elkins for an in-depth conversation about the magic and challenges of big books. They explore their personal criteria for what makes a long novel worth reading, comparing Lori’s idea of “abundance novels” with James’s concept of “complex novels.”

Together, they discuss overlapping favorites like Miss Macintosh, My Darling, Ducks, Newburyport, and Septology, while debating whether detective fiction can ever provide the same level of interiority and immersion. They reflect on rhythm, atmosphere, and the way long novels often give readers a sense of danger—the thrill of knowing the narrative could veer off in unexpected directions at any moment.

Whether you’re a longtime lover of big books or curious about what draws readers to them, this conversation will give you fresh insight into why we keep coming back to these enormous, challenging, and unforgettable works.

For the image reference James mentioned visit the substack here

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In this episode of The Big Book Project, Lori sits down with Brad Costa, sales representative for W.W. Norton and an extraordinary reader, to discuss Jonathan Littell’s The Kindly Ones.

Brad brings a unique perspective as someone who worked in library archives with Holocaust materials, offering profound insights into the novel’s detailed depiction of bureaucratic evil, moral ambiguity, and the unsettling psychology of its narrator, Max.

Together, Lori and Brad explore the interplay between history and fiction, the coldness of administrative genocide, and whether Max’s intellectual rationalizations make him more or less culpable for his actions. They also dive into the value (and discomfort) of reading books that challenge us, the novel’s allusions to Greek tragedy, and what readers might anticipate as the story heads toward its conclusion.

If you’ve struggled to process The Kindly Ones, this thoughtful and wide-ranging conversation will give you fresh context for one of the most challenging—and important—novels of the 21st century.

Episode Highlights

📚 Brad’s archival perspective: Working with Holocaust materials shaped his response to Littell’s narrative.

🧠 Max’s moral ambiguity: Is it worse to be a true believer in evil or a cold bureaucrat?

⚖️ Greek tragedy & moral guilt: How the novel draws on classical ideas of responsibility.

❌ Academizing evil: Max’s tendency to intellectualize and rationalize atrocities.

🪦 Life and death in detail: The tension between moments of pastoral beauty and brutal violence.

📖 Literary echoes: Comparisons to The Painted Bird, Mother Night, Life and Fate, The Sea and the Poison, and Anniversaries.

🔥 Why read difficult books? Brad and Lori reflect on discomfort as a necessary part of meaningful reading.

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction: Meeting Brad Costa
 01:07 – Brad’s background in Holocaust archives
 02:59 – First impressions of The Kindly Ones
05:30 – The novel’s historical detail and Littell’s research process
08:37 – Max’s bureaucratic mindset and calorie calculations
11:46 – The human zoo and dehumanization in the narrative
14:24 – True believers vs. bureaucratic indifference
17:16 – Max’s dysfunctional personal life: Sister and mother dynamics
21:08 – Grotesque ironies and Max’s post-war life
23:14 – Thomas vs. Voss: Max’s moral compass
26:52 – Academizing evil as a psychological shield
30:38 – Sympathy for animals, indifference to humans
33:27 – Reading difficult books: Taking breaks and returning
35:28 – Beauty and horror in Littell’s writing
39:40 – Anticipating the end: Will Max ever reckon with his actions?
44:25 – Recommended books for further reading
49:51 – Final reflections: On hubris, denial, and moral discomfort
52:23 – Closing thoughts

In this episode of The Big Book Project, Lori Feathers is joined by Professor Dorian Stuber for a deep dive into Jonathan Littell’s The Kindly Ones. They explore the book’s place within Holocaust literature, its historical accuracy, and the challenges it poses to readers and educators alike. From the banality of evil to the controversial portrayal of sexual deviancy, Lori and Dorian unpack the themes, narrative choices, and lasting impact of this monumental novel.

Whether you’re reading along or reflecting on the ethical and historical complexities of literature about atrocity, this conversation offers thought-provoking insights that linger long after the final page.

They explore:
⚡ The bureaucracy of genocide
⚡ Why Max is so unsettling
⚡ The debate around historical accuracy and literary intent

📚 Whether you’ve read the book or not, this conversation will challenge how you think about atrocity in fiction.

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In this episode of The Big Book Project, Lori Feathers sits down with art historian, theorist, and novelist James Elkins to discuss his new book A Short Introduction to Anneliese published by Unnamed Press—the second novel in his five-volume literary experiment, Five Strange Languages.

James shares the 20-year journey behind this sprawling, genre-defying project, its dizzying structure, overlapping timelines, and why his fictional characters come with charts, graphs, footnotes, and even musical scores.

Lori and James dive deep into big questions: What makes a long novel worthwhile? What does it mean to forget your younger self? Can emotion survive in a highly structured novel? Is complexity the goal—or the undoing—of the epic form?

From Sebald to Stockhausen, Darwin to Ducks, Newburyport, this is a conversation for readers who love books that break form, test memory, and defy easy classification.

If you’ve ever wept in front of a painting, lost patience with Proust, or believe you could be charmed by a neurotic biologist surrounded by 120 unread notebooks, this one’s for you.

Connect with James:

jameselkins.com
A hub for his published books, essays, art criticism, upcoming projects, and course materials.

The Big Book Project Links:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• YouTube
• Instagram

Chapters
00:00 – Welcome + Introducing James Elkins
01:00 – What is A Short Introduction to Anneliese?
02:00 – Structuring a 5-Volume Novel Overlapping in Time
05:00 – A Character Who Writes Thousands of Pages Alone
08:00 – Musical Memory and the Role of Stockhausen
12:00 – Letting Visuals Speak in Fiction
14:00 – The Art of Illegible Notebooks and Fictional Archives
18:00 – Creating the Character of Anneliese
21:00 – Long Novels, Insanity, and Summer Reading Lists
24:00 – Philip K. Dick, Earthworms, and Other Mad Texts
26:30 – Does Any Big Book Really Stay in Control?
28:30 – Ducks, Digressions, and Structural Drift
30:00 – Does Constraint Kill Emotion in Fiction?
33:00 – Organizing Chaos: Making Anneliese Sympathetic
35:00 – Sculpting Disorder: Anneliese's Aesthetic Philosophy
37:00 – The Next Volumes in the Five Strange Languages Project
40:00 – Crying in Front of Paintings: James on Emotional Art
43:00 – Social Isolation, Survival, and Solipsism
44:30 – Obituaries and the Final Volume of the Series
45:30 – Reading Order and Easter Eggs Across the Series
46:30 – The Emotional Life of Difficult Characters
48:00 – A Call for More Conversations on Long Novels
51:00 – Digressions, Detail, and the Limits of Beauty
53:00 – On John Fosse, Acrostic Writing, and Descriptive Gaps
54:00 – Wrapping Up + Future Conversations Ahead

Tom Flynn returns to The Big Book Project to continue our group read of Jonathan Littell’s The Kindly Ones—this time tackling pages 333–427, a harrowing descent into the frozen siege of Stalingrad.

Lori and Tom unpack the disturbing realism and psychological depth of the novel, exploring themes of unreliable narration, classical tragedy, and the machinery of fascist ideology. They ask hard questions: Is Littell's depiction of atrocity exploitative or essential? Is Max Aue a symbol of something broader, or simply a singular horror? And what’s up with Thomas, the ever-present shadow who might be more demon than man?This episode covers:

• The blurring line between realism and myth
• The moral calculus of depicting violence
• The absurdity of racial classification
• The literary brilliance—and disturbing ambition—of Littell’s prose

Whether you’re trudging through this novel with us or watching from a safe distance, this is a deep and thoughtful exploration of one of the most unsettling books of the 21st century.

If you’re reading along with us, we’d love to hear your thoughts—on the Substack drop a comment, or tag us on Instagram @thebigbookproject with your biggest questions or takeaways.
And if you're enjoying the podcast, leave us a review or share this episode with a fellow reader who isn’t afraid of the dark stuff.

00:00 – Intro & Tom’s return
01:00 – Why The Kindly Ones is stranger than expected
04:00 – Authorial intent & American backlash
06:30 – Can we feel empathy for Max? Should we?
08:00 – The unreliable narrator problem
11:00 – Max’s psychology & his “internal flood”
14:00 – The pacing, horror, and lyricism of Littell’s prose
17:00 – Stalingrad as hell on earth
20:00 – Thomas as twin, demon, or doppelgänger
25:00 – Greek tragedy, The Kindly Ones, and fate
28:00 – The absurdity of fascist logic
32:00 – Honig’s horrifying medical research
36:00 – The spiritual death of the Nazi army
40:00 – Problem’s Marxist critique of Nazi ideology
43:00 – Why write this book?
47:00 – Is Max a symbol—or just a damaged man?
50:00 – Wrapping up & what's ahead

https://substack.com/@thebigbookproject
In this episode of The Big Book Project, host Lori Feathers is joined by acclaimed translator David McKay to explore The Remembered Soldier, the haunting and deeply psychological novel by Anjet Daanje, newly released in English by New Vessel Press.

This episode unpacks the long journey of bringing The Remembered Soldier from a small regional publisher in the Netherlands to international acclaim—and finally, to English-speaking readers. David shares what drew him to this remarkable work, the challenges of translating its dreamlike prose, and how the novel’s layered structure slowly unravels its mysteries.

📚 The Remembered Soldier follows a WWI Belgian soldier found wounded and nameless in a Ghent asylum. Claimed by a woman who says she is his wife, he’s thrust into a fragile new life that forces him to question everything—his identity, her memories, and even reality itself.

💡 In This Episode:
The real-life inspiration behind the soldier's condition and asylum ads
The psychological tension of memory, identity, and trust
Daanje’s radical narrative style and sentence structure
How trauma and war echo in everyday rituals
The literary legacy of Daanje's work and her next novel, The Song of Stork and Dromedary
This conversation is a deep dive into what makes The Remembered Soldier so unforgettable—and why readers and book clubs alike will be talking about it for years to come.

If you’re reading The Remembered Soldier or planning to, don’t do it alone.
📩 Join the discussion on Substack and share your takeaways.
🎧 Subscribe to The Big Book Project on your favorite platform for more conversations with authors, translators, and literary thinkers.
💬 Leave a review and share this episode with your fellow readers—especially the ones who love to talk about books that get under your skin.

Chapters
00:00 – Introduction to Translator David McKay
00:39 – Discovering Anjet Daanje and The Remembered Soldier
03:00 – How the Novel Reached an English Audience
04:16 – The Historical Reality of Forgotten Soldiers
06:06 – Who Is Noon Merkham?
07:11 – Homecoming, Photography, and a Life Reclaimed
09:25 – Paranoia, Love, and the Shifting Mind
11:51 – Sentence Structure as a Reflection of Memory
13:49 – Sample Reading: Paranoia in the Darkness
16:12 – Is Julianne Telling the Truth?
22:17 – Memory as Performance: Photography and Reenactment
24:15 – Battlefield Tourism and Sanitized History
25:29 – Claustrophobia, Monotony, and Emotional Repetition
27:44 – What Was Left Unsaid (Without Spoilers)
28:59 – The Next Novel: The Song of Stork and Dromedary
34:22 – Dutch vs. English: Word Count and Language
36:11 – Final Stages of Translation and What’s Next
38:10 – Co-Translating Off-White by Astrid Roemer
39:40 – A Perfect Pick for Book Clubs


The Remembered Soldier, Anjet Daanje, David McKay translator, translated fiction 2025, World War I novel, literary fiction, Dutch literature in translation, memory and trauma in fiction, unreliable narrator, New Vessel Press, psychological historical fiction, book club recommendations, post-war novels, The Big Book Project, Lori Feathers podcast, literary podcast 2025

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In this solo episode of The Big Book Project, host Lori Feathers returns to reflect on the latest section of Agaat by Marlene van Niekerk—around page 300—and dives into the nuanced layers of communication, legacy, and emotional power that define this extraordinary novel.

As Milla’s physical condition deteriorates due to ALS, her only form of communication is her eyes. Yet even in silence, she attempts to convey one last urgent desire: to see the maps of the farm. What do these maps represent for Milla? And why does Agaat—seemingly out of both tenderness and quiet resistance—refuse to bring them to her?

📌 Lori explores:

• The mysterious and symbolic role of the farm maps
• Agaat’s complex motivations and silent power dynamics
• Mila’s longing for legacy and meaning in her final days
• The unspoken tension around the third bundle of diaries
• How sensory memory, ritual, and resentment play out through objects

This episode is rich in literary analysis and character interpretation, inviting listeners to reflect on the novel’s recurring themes: miscommunication, psychological control, and the slow unraveling of past choices.

📖 Whether you're deep into Agaat or just joining the read-along, this episode offers powerful insight into the emotional core of the book—and leaves you wondering: What do we really leave behind?

🔹 The Big Book Project is a guided reading journey through literary masterpieces. Subscribe for weekly deep dives into complex narratives and their cultural significance.

Links and Resources:
The Big Book Project on Substack
Agaat: Purchase the Book
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In this special episode of The Big Book Project, host Lori Feathers is joined by Nanci McCloskey—Associate Publisher and Director of Sales & Marketing at Tin House Books—to kick off our next group read: Agaat by Marlene van Niekerk.

📚 Agaat is a psychological epic set in apartheid-era South Africa, told through the complex relationship between two women—Milla and Agaat. Originally published in the UK under the title The Way of the Women, the novel eventually found its home in the U.S. thanks to Nancy’s passionate advocacy at Tin House. In this conversation, Lori and Nancy discuss the book’s extraordinary language, its slow-burn intensity, and the deeply layered themes of race, power, and legacy.

💡 In This Episode:

• How Agaat came to be published in the U.S.
• Why Toni Morrison championed the novel
• The book’s shifting perspectives and psychological tension
• Why the title Agaat matters
• The parallels between personal relationships and apartheid
• Stories from readers deeply moved by the novel

This episode is a powerful exploration of what makes Agaat one of the most extraordinary modern novels—and why it’s worth your time, despite its 650 pages. Whether you're new to the book or already a devoted reader, this discussion will deepen your understanding of its literary and emotional resonance.

🔊 Tune in now to begin your journey through Agaat, and learn why this under-the-radar masterpiece is finally getting the attention it deserves.

Where to Find the Host

Links and Resources:
The Big Book Project on Substack

Buy the book
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Connect with Nanci & Tin House

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In this episode of The Big Book Project, Lori Feathers is joined by literary critic and bookseller Tom Flynn for an in-depth discussion of Roberto Bolaño’s 2666. As we near the end of our 11-week deep dive, we explore the novel’s most compelling themes—literary obsession, systemic violence, and the enigmatic figure of Archimboldi.

📖 Key Topics Discussed:
✔️ Tom Flynn’s experience reading 2666 and seeing its stage adaptation
✔️ How 2666 critiques literary academia and the obsession with authors
✔️ The part about the crimes—how violence is depicted and its chilling effect on readers
✔️ The concept of heroism in the novel—are there any true heroes?
✔️ Bolaño’s portrayal of women and systemic misogyny in Santa Teresa
✔️ What the title 2666 might mean and why it remains an enigma

This episode is a must-listen for lovers of complex literature, literary criticism, and anyone intrigued by Bolaño’s haunting masterpiece. Whether you’re reading along or reflecting on past readings, join us for an engaging conversation filled with insight and literary passion.

🔹 The Big Book Project is a guided reading journey through literary masterpieces. Subscribe for weekly deep dives into complex narratives and their cultural significance.

📖 Subscribe to The Big Book Project for deep dives into the world’s most thought-provoking literature.
💬 Share your thoughts on this section of 2666—how did it affect you?
🔎 Follow us for more literary analysis, book discussions, and immersive reading experiences.

Links and Resources:
The Big Book Project on Substack
Roberto Bolaño’s 2666: Purchase the Book
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Connect with Thomas Flynn:

Bluesky

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