Ezra Levin co-founded Indivisible after the 2016 election and ignited an outpouring of political engagement across America. Indivisible’s first guide helped tens of thousands to organize and support each other in their effort to make build a stronger democracy. Now as Donald Trump returns to White House determined to remake America along the lines of post-democratic Hungary, Indivisible has published a new guide that will help us protect our democratic institutions and resist Trump’s powerful autocratic movement.

I spoke with Levin this week about “Indivisible: A Practical Guide to Democracy on the Brink.” I urge you to listen to our entire conversation but here are some key takeaways:

(Note: The quotes are verbatim, but the questions are not. As you will hear, this was a conversation, not Q and A session.)

Why this guide now?

EL: People organized can indeed apply pressure in many circumstances, either to stop bad stuff that’s coming or to slow it down, which is meaningful because if you slow things down, less bad stuff happens, or to blunt the impact.

And as a final resort, if you can't stop it, if you can't blunt the impact, if you can't slow it down, you can at least make sure that the folks who push forward unpopular policies take political damage and get defeated, the next opportunity you can defeat them.

People think organizing is just about winning elections. It really isn’t, is it?

EL: That's exactly right. I think a common misconception is that the purpose of political organizing is to elect leaders and then they fix everything for you.

And as you said, that's never been the case. Wilson was an opponent of the suffragettes. They had to actually organize to push him. FDR did not immediately push for the New Deal program. He had to be pushed. LBJ had to be pushed by MLK and a powerful civil rights movement. Obama almost dropped the Affordable Care Act and had to be pushed.

Each time we've had an opportunity to make progress because we've won majorities in Congress or the presidency, we've also had to push.

And each time we've lost we've also had to organize to prevent damage.

That's how it goes.

Democrats have, for a long time outsourced their work to professionals. We let the organizing muscle atrophy.

EL: I think that's a really important insight. I was part of the nonprofit industrial complex. I worked for a national nonprofit that did any poverty work. I thought it was good work, and it was good work. We made some good progress, but I was a paid think tanker advocate trying to create policies and convince members of Congress to listen to their better angels and throw a few more bucks towards their earned income tax credit or support for folks to put away a little bit of savings.

That was my job.

And when I was a staffer on Capitol Hill, I met with a ton of interest groups. Some of them were good. Some of them were bad. They were all professionalized. The act of being engaged in democracy and pushing for good climate policy or pushing for good anti-poverty policy, or pushing for better democracy policy? That came down to professionalized advocates and researchers based inside Washington, D.C.

And I came to the conclusion after several years of doing that, that our problem in D.C. was not that we didn't have one new good white paper, or we didn't have one new good coalition of nonprofits talking about what needed to be done.

Our problem was we didn't have political power. We didn't have political power to actually get it done.

A member of Congress didn't need another white paper. They needed a lot of their constituents saying, hey, you got to listen to us. Otherwise, we're going to throw you out of office

We spent a lot of time and energy on progressive policies during President Biden’s term. In retrospect, I wish he had worked harder to strengthen the guardrails that are now about to get tested. This new guide is not confused about the goal.

EL: The new Indivisible Guide is not a guide to how we remake the Democratic Party or how we build a coalition that can permanently win in 2028 and beyond. It is much more narrow than that.

I think those are important conversations to have. I think we need to figure out how we do a better job of building that coalition so it's not susceptible to the entreaties of an autocrat like Trump. And also, we've got to get to 2028 first.

I'm worried about actually having free and fair elections headed into 2026.

This guide is a guide to how we live to fight another day, which means across ideologies, there are non-MAGA Republicans and independents and progressives. We can all unify in this moment and say we know we voted – the country, 49.9% voted- for Donald Trump because they were upset about egg prices.

What they did not vote for Donald Trump to do is to install Matt Gaetz as Attorney General. They didn't vote for Donald Trump to ban abortions. They didn't vote for Donald Trump for Project 2025.

We can all join together and say no to that.

This new guide talks about how much better we did in the swing states where we were well organized and focused, than in parts of the country where we were not. We lost those states anyway. So why talk about it?

EL: It’s a mistake to believe that the enemy is the Republicans or MAGA or Donald Trump. They’re not the enemy. They're the folks that we're trying to defeat.

The enemy is cynicism, fatalism, defeatism. The sense that nothing I do matters, so I'm just going to focus on something else…

In the first chapter of the guide, we try to create some shared understanding of what actually happened in this election. Because if we don't understand what happened in this election, we're not going to agree on what should happen next. And there are a couple of main takeaways.

One is, if you look nationwide, there was a seven-point swing in non-battleground states against us, seven points against us. That's really, really hard to overcome.

But then if you look just at the battlegrounds, and Wisconsin is a great example because we did the best there, there was only a 1.5% swing in Wisconsin, which means where we were running a campaign, where we were doing Get Out the Vote, where we were knocking on doors and writing postcards and sending texts and making calls, we were able to close that gap by five and a half points.

Now, that's cold comfort, right?  We wanted to win. We didn't want to make gains…

But it's a mistake to say that didn't matter…. what we do can indeed make a difference.

It's just the wave this year was really, really hard to overcome.

We covered so much more in our conversation. I hope you’ll listen to entire our chat (the podcast link is above) and read the updated Indivisible Guide here. Ezra is smart and thoughtful about where we are as a country right now. Please listen and let me know what you think.

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The lies, the laws limiting voting in state after state. Project 2025- a user manual for one party rule, Trump himself promising to be a dictator on day one. It is a multi-front attack. I recently talked with Sam Levine, the voting rights reporter for The Guardian U.S. and he helped put some more of the pieces together.

Sam told me,

I think it's a little bit of a different scenario from 2020 when people were concerned about the prospect of a candidate trying to overturn the election results deemed a little far-fetched. There was still sort of skepticism even going into the election that Trump could try and overturn it. I think that there's little doubt that Trump will accept the results of an election he doesn’t win.

This was part of a larger conversation from my radio show The Big Picture on WCPT820. You can hear the whole interview at the link at the top of this page. It got me thinking about the GOP attack on voting. The attack goes to the core of our democracy and has four elements.

* Suppress votes

* Dilute votes

* Nullify elections

* Break our faith in the validity of elections

Today’s GOP is strategically engaged in all of these in order to take control of the country. If they succeed, we will never again be a democracy.

Voter suppression is the effort to stop people from voting. Across the country, GOP election officials, claiming they are protecting voters from fraud, are aggressively purging voting rolls, narrowing the time for voting, making it more difficult to vote in certain places, forbidding providing water to anyone waiting in a line to vote, requiring multiple forms ID to vote, and more. His week the Republican majority in the U.S. House voted to require proof of citizenship to vote. (That bill will not make it through the Senate.) Each of these strategies targets voters who tend to support Democrats.

They say they are protecting voters from fraud. But that is a lie. A lie they repeat even after it has been proven to be a lie.

Voter dilution is the effort to make some votes count less than others. This is what partisan gerrymandering accomplishes. In a state like Wisconsin, the practice of cracking and packing means that it democrats are mapped into a few districts where they can easily win while the rest are divided up amongst many districts they can never win. This means every republican voter counts for more than any Democratic voter when it comes to a voice in the legislature.

The United States Supreme Court gutted the voting rights act so there is no protection for voters from partisan gerrymandering. The court went further to say that if a gerrymander can be shown to be partisan then protections against racial gerrymandering are moot- essentially throwing out the voting rights.

Both parties have engaged in voter suppression and gerrymandering to some degree. But today’s GOP has gone further than any previous efforts, and they have made these part of a broader anti-democracy strategy.  To see that, let’s turn to the rest of the list.

 Election nullification. This is something new. We are seeing cases across the country where county officials simply refuse to certify an election. The three GOP commissioners in Washoe County, Nevada, that’s Reno, are doing that right now.  Reporter Sam Levine, who follows these issues for the Guardian told me,

What we've seen in these efforts is that there was some glitch in the election and these kinds of errors happen- voting equipment breaks or there's some problem at the polls or some problem with absentee ballots.  But it's not a widespread issue… That becomes sort of the basis for commissioners or people who are unhappy with the election results to doubt. And they say, well, we'll never be able to know what the true effect of this relatively minor error was, and they use that as a basis for not certifying the election. In some cases, people who have refused to certify haven't cited any basis.  They’ve just said something in their gut tells them something wasn’t right.

So far these efforts have not led to the overturning of an election. So why go through the trouble? Turns out it was practice.  This week the Georgia legislature moved forward with a bill to make it easier for local officials to delay the certification of the vote. And that’s important, because this year that delay could mean the state’s vote is not available in time for the Congressional certification of the Presidential ballots.  

Now recall that four years ago, on January 6th, while the insurrectionists were gathering outside the Capitol, inside folks like Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley introduced motions to nullify the votes of several states. They did not succeed, but lessons were learned. Now they will be able to rely on local county officials to refuse to certify.

Breaking our faith in the validity of elections, is essential for autocratic takeovers. Today’s GOP is determined to make sure Americans doubt our own ability to hold elections and to count votes. That’s why they tell a lie and repeat it even after their claim is disproved. They don’t care about the claim, they want the doubt. That’s why Congress voted to impose the unnecessary yet burdensome requirement of proving citizenship before voting. They want to be able to say Democrats are getting votes from people who aren’t citizens. They don’t care that there is no evidence of that happening. They want the doubt.

I asked Sam Levine if he has ever seen a democracy where people don’t believe that voting is legit. Here’s what he said,

A lot of the discussion can be outcome focused… is this going to be a successful effort to overturn the election results? And sometimes what gets lost in that is regardless of the outcome, do people have confidence in the election results? One thing we've seen since 2020 is that even though Donald Trump wasn't successful, it offered a playbook for his supporters. It offered a permission structure for his supporters to continue to believe that the election was stolen. And one of the most critical parts of any functioning government and any functioning democracy is that people believe that those who govern them, those who represent them, are legitimately elected. And when people start to lose faith in that, I think it raises really disturbing questions about government and takes us to a very scary place.

What place is that? Project 2025 and the perpetual rule of an empowered minority party. If you do nothing else, google Project 2025 to see what’s coming if we do not move heaven and earth to stop it.

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Longtime Democratic strategist and incredibly productive polymath Simon Rosenberg is my guest in this “Big Picture” interview. In addition to being consistently spot on reading of the political moment, he is a talented writer, a savvy entrepreneur, and a tireless fighter for democratic values. His latest effort is one of the best uses of Substack. He created Hopium Chronicles, which you simply must join. It is a newsletter, a community, and a source of resources that will help you be effective in every conversation this election cycle.

In this conversation, we talked about Simon’s important efforts to share good news about Democratic accomplishments including his regular update called “With Democrats things get better.” We also discussed:

* The benefits of Joe Biden’s age.

* The need for Democrats to register more young voters.

* How it’s important to focus on the Democrat’s success story and get out of the republican head space.

* The importance of the next several months in helping set the 2024 campaign narrative.

* Simon’s efforts to remind panicked Democrats that they should grow a backbone and not be knocked off their feet by a few polls this far out.

* How polls are just one kind of data and that we should have learned by now that there are other important data to consider.

I hope you will take a listen to this fascinating conversation and follow Simon Rosenberg for more smart observations as the ‘24 campaign unfolds.

Political Strategist Simon Rosenberg

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Hendrell Remus is chair of the Tennessee Dems. In 2021 he became the first Black person ever to hold that position, and his passion for community, his commitment to democratic values, his tireless get-the-job-done work ethic puts him in that cohort of new democratic leaders who are remaking the way the party works on the ground and in communities across America. 

I talk with a lot of party chairs. Here in the upper Midwest, we now have awesome leadership: Lavora Barnes in Michigan, Ben Wikler in Wisconsin, and Ken Martin in Minnesota have winning formulas and unleashed tremendous energies that are moving this part of the country forward. And now we have new, impressive leadership in Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, and of course, in Tennessee where Democrats are rethinking how organize and to push back against the dark money assaults on our democracy. 

I talked with Hendrell Remus about his journey into party politics and what organizing looks like across the state of Tennessee. I wanted to know if it is more about coalition building among existing organizations, or creating entirely new on ramps for people to get involved. 

We also talked about;

* The recent special elections in Tennessee where two of the so-called Tennessee Three Democrats were re-elected to their legislative seats after being thrown out by Republican leadership.

* TN Senator Marcia Blackburn and she may face a challenge from Gloria Johnson, one of the TN Three.

* The impact of extreme gerrymandering in that state especially with regard to

guns, abortion, civil rights, the environment & on democracy itself.

I hope you’ll give this a listen.

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John Nichols is the associate editor the Cap Times in Madison Wisconsin. He an author of many books, and serves as national correspondent for The Nation Magazine, helps explain our politics to the folks across the pond as a commentator for the BBC and is often seen on TV here in America as well. In this conversation, we talked politics from Wisconsin to Ohio and beyond. I hope you’ll give it a listen.

John Nichols of The Cap Times and The Nation.

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David DeWitt is the greatly-relieved-for-a-change Editor-in-Chief of the Ohio Capital Journal. He’s been covering the goings on in that state for more than 15 years. He joins me from time to time to help understand what’s going on in that important state. In this conversation, David weighs in on the big win for Democracy in Ohio’s August special election.

We also talked about:

* Going from defense to offense in Ohio.

* The reproductive freedom measure on the November ballot in Ohio. Constitution.

* The tough race ahead for sitting Ohio U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown. The GOP put a bullseye on him and thinks this is one of the seats they can flip.

* An update on the campaign to end gerrymandering in Ohio and the role of the former state Supreme Court Chief Justice in that fight.

David DeWitt, Editor of the Ohio Capital Journal.

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Ken Martin Chairs the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor (DFL) Party. He is President of the Association of State Democratic Committees, and a vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. He is a superb organizer, a savvy campaign strategist, and he was done amazing things up in Minnesota. In our recent “The Big Picture” conversation on WCPT 820AM/ Heartland Signal, we talked about the incredible accomplishments of Democratic state parties and legislatures around the country and in Minnesota where Democrats recently had a very significant legislative session. Some of those accomplishments include:

* expanded access to abortion.

* legalized recreational marijuana.

* the largest transportation bill since 2008.

* adopted a new child tax credit.

* universal background checks for gun purchases and set up “red-flag” laws under which authorities can confiscate firearms from people deemed a threat to others or themselves.

* free breakfast and free lunch to schoolchildren.

* felons can now vote after serving their prison term.

* undocumented immigrants can get state drivers’ licenses and health insurance.

* tax rebates, tied to income, while raising taxes on companies with global income and snipping some deductions for wealthy individuals.

* As we discussed, the GOP said these policies would drive away investors and destroy the state. But that’s not what happened. Minnesota now has:

* The lowest inflation in the country

* Good economic growth, wage growth, more jobs

Click above to hear the entire conversation.

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Sarah Posner is an investigative journalist and author. She is the author of Unholy, why white evangelicals worship at the altar of Donald Trump. Her research and writing focus on the fusion of the religious right and today’s GOP. In our recent “The Big Picture” conversation on WCPT 820AM, we talked about where things stand with the white nationalist movement. I also asked Sarah if she sees any splits in the evangelical community as compared to the moment when she wrote Unholy. And whether they are they moving back towards traditional values of love thy neighbor or are abortion and hating the left still their total world view.

“The Big Picture” airs Saturday’s from 1-4pm CT on WCPT 820AM. You can stream is from the Heartland Signal website or on the Tune-In App.

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Dean Baker founded The Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR) in 1999. The organization promotes democratic debate on economic and social issues that affect people’s lives. He is a prolific writer- author of many books and studies, and he joins us from time to time.

Recently in a WCPT 820AM conversation, we talked about the US economy with a special focus on Bidenomics. If you are curious about what Bidenomics is and what it means for working people, you’ll want to hear what Dean has to say.

We also talked about the latest on:

* Inflation

* Why the WSJ and other typically business focused media keep saying recession worries are well founded.

* How something is happening here in the upper Midwest. MN and Michigan have repealed their so-called right to work laws, and both states are seeing new investments by the private sector including massive new auto manufacturing investments in Michigan.

* Green energy

* And: how Dean discovered a provision in a recent bill to study changes to drug company patent monopolies.

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Seth Cotlar is a Professor of History at Willamette University. Author of Tom Paine's America. He has fabulous new substack account called Rightlandia. And he’s been diving into the archives of GOP leader named Walter Huss and showing us that history is very much alive. I hope you’ll listen to our conversation in this WCPT 820AM podcast where we talked about:

* How Seth is tracking the far-right takeover of the GOP because it’s worth pointing out to people how far today’s Republican Party is from the conservative party that nominated Mitt Romney just a decade ago.

* The latest so-called outrages that get the right all worked up the history of angry diatribes against perceived left wing efforts to stifle free speech.

* Recent efforts by the Oregon GOP to oust their leadership

Historian and Willamette University professor, Seth Cotlar

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