In this episode, I discuss with Prof. Pablo Ibáñez Colomo the implications of the Court of Justice's Google Android ruling when put in relation to concepts such as competition on the merits. We also get the opportunity to determine whether competition law deviates in digital markets and why this approach is consistent with the previous case law.

Find the CJEU's Google Android ruling here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62022CJ0738.

Throughout the episode, Pablo went through a number of cases that serve as the background to the Google Android ruling. Click on them directly here:

- 00:49, The European Commission's sanctioning decision in 2018: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.40099.

- 00:51, The General Court's ruling of the case: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62018TJ0604.

- 07:22, The CJEU's Servier saga (Case C-201/19 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62019CJ0201.

- 12:42, The CJEU's Android Auto ruling (Case C-233/23): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62023CJ0233.

- 21:42, The CJEU's Deutsche Telekom ruling (Case C-280/08 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62008CJ0280.

- 22:33, My post on the EC's interpretation of Article 6(11) DMA via specification proceedings: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/european-commission-hits-nail-head-its-dma-decision-ribera-mart%C3%ADnez-6wv4e/?trackingId=XZLJXgRtQ4mSMEoE8lv1yQ%3D%3D.

- 24:15, The CJEU's Post Danmark case (Case C-23/14): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62014CJ0023.

- 24:33, The CJEU's Google Shopping ruling (Case C-48/22 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62022CJ0048.

- 25:19, The CJEU's Servizio Elettrico Nazionale ruling (Case C-377/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0377.

- 25:41, The CJEU's SuperLeague ruling (Case C-333/21): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0333.

- 26:19, Fernando Castillo's paper on tying and its relationship with competition on the merits: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4395401.

- 27:41, German scholars in the 1950s concluded that competition on the merits cannot be made operational: https://ejpe.org/journal/article/download/688/539/1890.

- 33:09, The CJEU's Qualcomm ruling (Case C-466/19 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62019CJ0466.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to the Google Android Case and Guest

02:00 Ecosystems in Competition Law: Biological vs Digital

03:58 Implications of Ecosystem Balance on Legal Standards

05:57 The Role of Monetization Strategies in the Case

08:14 The Role of Causality and Counterfactuals in Analysis

11:10 Anti-Fragmentation Obligations and Market Strategies

13:00 Objective Justification and Ecosystem Sustainability

14:57 Principles of Digital Market Regulation and Exceptionalism

16:47 The Court’s Approach to Digital Market Dominance

19:12 Implications for Competition Law and Digital Ecosystems

21:10 Market Dynamics: Natural Monopolies and Network Effects

23:04 Refusal to Deal Doctrine in Digital Markets

24:59 The Exceptional Nature of Digital Market Cases

26:49 Historical Context: Telecoms and Digital Markets

29:11 Competition on the Merits and Tying Practices

31:49 Operational Challenges in Competition Law Enforcement

34:10 The Future of Competition Law in the Digital Era

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

She also writes, from time to time, in the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

In this episode, James Rosewell discusses innovative licensing schemes for content used by AI proprietors and the legal and regulatory landscape shaping the future of web publishing and AI content use.

If you're a web publisher and you're interested in signing the search-only contract, find it available on the Movement for an Open Web site: https://movementforanopenweb.com/publishers-take-control-over-ai-harvesting-with-new-contract/.

James and I touched upon different developments and milestones for the transformation of search and the Internet more broadly. Click on them directly through the links below:

- 00:18, The CMA's conduct requirements against Google relating to the use of content in AI Overviews: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-secures-fairer-deal-for-publishers-and-improves-google-search-services-in-uk.

- 15:05, The search-only contract is also available in GitHub: https://github.com/movementforanopenweb/terms-documents.

- 17:44, Proprietary agreements between publishers and AI companies: https://digiday.com/media/a-timeline-of-the-major-deals-between-publishers-and-ai-tech-companies-in-2025/.

- 18:00, Spur Coalition aiming to publish best practices relating to licensing in AI: https://www.spurcoalition.org/.

- 19:35, The piracy debate around Pirate Bay and Napster that took place in the early 2000s: https://www.decodedmagazine.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-music-piracy-how-napster-and-limewire-almost-destroyed-the-industry/.

- 19:52, The Press Gazette article written by Chris Dicker documenting that blocking bots is not effective: https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/publishers-versus-bots-trusted-reviews-ceo-on-a-fight-for-survival-with-llms/.

- 26:10, The CMA's 2020 report on digital markets (executive summary): https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-platforms-and-digital-advertising-market-study.

- 26:27, IAB UK's report documenting the impact of the cost of advertising in UK households: https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/news/iab-releases-economic-impact-of-digital-advertising-to-uk-economy-study-findings.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to AI and Search Engine Dynamics

02:45 CMA Remedies and Publisher Opt-Outs

11:23 Proposed Licensing Solutions for Publishers

17:33 Challenges for Small vs. Large Publishers

23:24 The Future of AI and Content Ownership

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.

________

The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well.

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all

- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social

- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora

- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

In this episode, I sat down with Max von Thun, Director at Open Markets Institute Europe, to discuss the situation of the cloud computing market. He set forth in very few words why we should care about this market and what the main problems are in the market's current configuration. I hope you enjoy the episode!

Throughout the episode, we mentioned some developments that have taken place surrounding the cloud market. Click on them directly below:

- 00:08, The EC's qualitative designations under the DMA against Amazon and Microsoft and its additional market investigation on the adequacy of capturing cloud: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-launches-market-investigations-cloud-computing-services-under-digital-markets-act-2025-11-18_en.

- 03:11, Amazon's, Microsoft's, and Google's dominance in the cloud market: https://www.statista.com/chart/18819/worldwide-market-share-of-leading-cloud-infrastructure-service-providers/?srsltid=AfmBOorFbl4QKnpM7sqK5L7LsFSx9wa7pSbd_YWZRw0CC2S7ubAPdhFC.

- 04:11, The CMA's cloud services market investigation: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/cloud-services-market-investigation.

- 04:39, Cloud outages created by dependence on a few players: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/20/amazon-web-services-aws-outage-hits-dozens-websites-apps.

- 06:50, Amazon spun its cloud business off the computing resources used from its e-commerce website: https://www.wired.com/story/why-hard-escape-amazons-long-reach/.

- 07:34, The European Commission's work on cloud: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/cloud-and-ai-development-act.

- 07:38, The Dutch competition authority's market study into cloud services: https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/market-study-cloud-services.

- 07:40, The French competition authority's market study into cloud computing: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/cloud-computing-autorite-de-la-concurrence-issues-its-market-study-competition-cloud.

- 08:22, The Data Act: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/2854/oj/eng.

- 11:23, The European Commission's approval of the Google/Wiz merger: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_333.

- 12:53, Google's partnerships surrounding its cloud business: https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/2026/accenture-edge-and-google-cloud-bring-scalable-agentic-ai-solutions-to-mid-market-companies.

- 15:42, The US' Antitrust Subcommittee's reports touching on the cloud market: http://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/issues/digital-markets-investigation.

- 16:13, Anecdotal evidence by which users are more prone towards Amazon's proprietary cloud: https://yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf.

- 16:45, Open Markets Institute paper on cloud: https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/publications/levelling-the-playing-field-for-cloud-services-omi-welcomes-eu-move-to-bring-amazon-and-microsoft-under-dma-gatekeeper-rules.

- 21:30: The European Commission's DMA review: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914.

- 22:05, The European Commission's Meta case, where it imposed interim measures: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1276.

- 22:28, The need for structural remedies, as set out by Open Markets Institute: https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/publications/the-structural-directive-vindicating-the-high-purpose-of-the-antitrust-laws.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to Cloud Market Regulation

02:29 Understanding Hyperscales and Market Dynamics

10:03 The Role of the European Commission

12:25 Implications of the DMA on Cloud Services

18:47 Future of Cloud Regulation and Enforcement

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

In this episode, Oliver Bethell from Google discusses the future of search in the age of AI, European regulatory approaches, including the DMA, and the balance between innovation and privacy. We explore how AI is transforming search behaviour and the path forward for fair competition.

Throughout the episode, Oli and I touched upon many different developments and facts surrounding Google's business. Click on them below to access them directly:

- 06:57, The European Commission's case under Article 102 TFEU relating to Google's integration of AI Overviews and its processing of web publisher content: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/da/ip_25_2964.

- 10:07, Google's AI licensing pilot: https://www.pymnts.com/news/artificial-intelligence/2026/google-tells-news-publishers-to-share-content-for-ai-training-or-lose-fees/.

- 10:09, Google's deal with 200 news publishers: https://blog.google/company-news/outreach-and-initiatives/google-news-initiative/google-news-showcase/.

- 10:14, Google's Extended News Program and Previews Program: https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/around-the-globe/google-europe/more-data-about-news-results-eu/.

- 12:12, The European Commission's DMA review report: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914.

- 13:06, The consensus around productivity gains generated by genAI: https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2025/07/unlocking-productivity-with-generative-ai-evidence-from-experimental-studies.html.

- 13:13, GenAI is estimated to add up to €1.2 trillion to the European Union's GDP over the next decade: https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/around-the-globe/google-europe/building-europes-ai-future-together/.

- 13:43, ChatGPT's rapid uptake in user adoption when it was launched: https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-sets-record-fastest-growing-user-base-analyst-note-2023-02-01/.

- 17:42, The European Commission's 6(11) preliminary measures on access to search data: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/dma100209-consultation-proposed-measures-google-search-data-sharing_en.

- 17:49, Privacy experts contesting the Commission's approach under the 6(11) specification proceedings: https://ecipe.org/insights/dma-proceedings-against-google/.

- 18:16, Gatekeepers raising privacy as an issue that is set at odds with the DMA's application: https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13902/8/expert-warns-apple-and-google-are-citing-privacy-and-security-risks-in-their-lobbying-against-dma.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to AI and Search Transformation

01:50 The Future of Search: Evolving User Expectations

07:24 Regulatory Landscape: The Role of the DMA

12:43 AI and Competition: Balancing Innovation and Regulation

18:29 Privacy Concerns in the Age of AI

22:38 Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Digital Markets

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.

________

The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well.

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all

- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social

- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora

- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

In this episode, I interviewed Valerio Capraro about the concept of LLMorphism, its implications on human cognition, and the societal impacts of AI language models. We explored how AI influences our self-perception and the importance of epistemic literacy.

To read through Valerio's newly introduced notion of LLMorphism, see here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.05419.

In the episode, Valerio mentioned a couple of other works and trends applying to the LLMorphism theory. Click on them below to access them directly:

- 03:20, His work on 'Epistemological Fault Lines Between Human and Artificial Intelligence', co-authored with Walter Quattrociocchi and Matjaz Perc: https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2512.19466.

- 08:22, Scholars discussing mecanomorphism back in the 1940s: https://doi.org/10.1080/03081079.2014.883743.

- 09:26, The perspective of Taylorism on replaceable humans: https://www.emerald.com/jmh/article-pdf/30/2/141/9579783/jmh-04-2024-305.pdf.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to LLMorphism and AI's Impact on Human Cognition

01:47 Understanding LLMorphism: The Cognitive Bias of Machines

04:52 The Consequences of LLMorphism on Human Identity

07:17 Historical Context: Technology and Self-Understanding

08:33 The Threat of Replaceability in the Workforce

10:39 Social Implications: Power Dynamics and Human Perception

11:51 Navigating LLMorphism: The Role of Understanding and Literacy

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.

________

The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well.

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all

- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social

- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora

- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

In this episode, we explore the landmark Munich court ruling on AI liability, its implications for Google and content publishers, and the broader regulatory landscape for AI in Europe. Fayrouze Masmi-Dazi shares expert insights on legal distinctions between search engines and hosting platforms and future challenges in AI regulation.

The video exhaustively reviews and comments on the Munich Regional Court's ruling relating to Google Overviews, which you'll find here: https://les-italy.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/42-O-14139-24-Endurteil-en-GB.pdf.

Aside from the judgment, we also touched upon several developments surrounding the topic. Click directly on them below:

- 04:10, The French competition authority's intervention in relation to Google's agreements with news publishers: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/related-rights-autorite-fines-google-eu250-million.

- 05:14, The European Commission's investigation on AI Overviews under Article 102 TFEU: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/da/ip_25_2964.

- 05:16, The CMA's measures relating to publisher content on AI Overviews: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-secures-fairer-deal-for-publishers-and-improves-google-search-services-in-uk.

- 06:24, The Court of Justice's ruling in relation to the liability of information services (Case C-190/24 Coyote System): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/affair?sort=AFF_NUM-DESC&searchTerm=%22C-190%2F24%22&publishedId=C-190%2F24.

- 16:20, Google's announcement of the Privacy Sandbox: https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/chrome/building-a-more-private-web/.

- 16:25, The CMA's investigation into Google's Privacy Sandbox: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/investigation-into-googles-privacy-sandbox-browser-changes.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to AI Liability and the Munich Ruling

03:18 Significance of the Ruling for AI and Publishers

07:40 Distinction Between AI Overview and Traditional Search Engines

12:39 Legal Implications of Untrue Statements and Liability

17:14 Impact on Publishers and Future Litigation

21:00 Regulatory Framework for AI in Europe

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.

________

The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well.

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all

- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social

- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

In this episode, I host Sebastião to discuss the complex interplay between the GDPR, DMA, and AI regulation within the EU. He explores how regulators can cooperate across silos, the challenges of enforcement, and the future of cross-regulatory guidelines.

Throughout the conversation, we covered different aspects of the digital rulebook requiring coordination:

- 00:17, The European Commission's specification proceedings relating to Google's AI features: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_202.

- 01:48, The EDPB's and EC's Draft Joint Guidelines on the interplay between the DMA and the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/our-work-tools/documents/public-consultations/2025/joint-guidelines-interplay-between-digital_en.

- 04:49, The EDPB set to issue Joint Guidelines on the interface between competition law and the GDPR: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/about/news/commission-services-and-edpb-will-start-joint-work-guidance-interplay-between-eu-competition-law-and-2026-04-28_en.

- 04:53, The EDPB's work with the EC on Joint Guidelines relating to the AI Act and its interplay with the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2026-01/edpb_edps_jointopinion_202601_proposal_ai-omnibus_en.pdf.

- 05:06, The EDPB's Joint Guidelines with the EDPS on the Anti-Money Laundering Act: https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/our-work/our-work-by-type/edps-edpb-joint-opinions_en.

- 07:23, The EDPB's efforts in issuing Joint Guidelines relating to the DSA/GDPR interface with the EC: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2025-09/edpb_guidelines_202503_interplay-dsa-gdpr_v1_en.pdf.

- 07:48, The EDPB's collaboration with the European Board for Digital Services in the DSA context: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2025/interplay-between-dsa-and-gdpr-edpb-adopts-guidelines_en.

- 08:30, The Court of Justice's ruling relating to the principle of sincere cooperation (Case C-252/21, Meta Platforms Inc and Others v Bundeskartellamt): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0252.

- 11:51, The EC's analysis of the Google/Fitbit merger: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases1/202120/m9660_3314_3.pdf.

- 11:58, The EDPB's statement on the Google/Fitbit merger: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/sites/default/files/files/file1/edpb_statement_2020_privacyimplicationsofmergers_en.pdf.

- 12:04, Commissioner Vestager's statement that the EDPB could not intervene in the Google/Fitbit merger due to the lack of a legal basis: https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/2020/02/vestager-privacy-regulators-wont-be-involved-in-google-fitbit-review-3976959.

- 12:17, The EDPS' call for a horizontal legal basis that provides the possibility to exchange confidential information between authorities: https://www.edps.europa.eu/system/files/2022-11/2022-11-11-opinion-on-european-media-freedom-act_en.pdf.

- 12:54, The stakeholder contributions to the Digital Fitness Check: https://data.europa.eu/en/news-events/news/eu-digital-omnibus-update-simplifying-europes-digital-rulebook.

- 16:00, The European Commission's specification proceedings under Article 6(11) DMA against Google: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_202.

- 17:34, The Court of Justice's recent case law on the principle of ne bis in idem (Case C-117/20, bpost SA v Autorité belge de la concurrence): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0117.

- 20:22, The EDPB's work in fleshing out the notion of anonymisation: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/our-work-tools/our-documents/topic/anonymization_en.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to Data Protection and DMA

01:20 Interplay Between GDPR and DMA

08:12 Consultation and Cooperation Among Regulators

15:03 Enforcement Fragmentation Risks

22:38 AI Integration with DMA and GDPR

The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

Join me in a brief talk around the analysis of AI within the DMA framework, where I build on my previous research surrounding whether an AI CPS must be added or how to meter AI technologies into the ex ante regulation.

To celebrate the 1000th download of my paper 'Generative AI in Check: Gatekeeper Power and Policy Under the DMA', I invite you to read it on SSRN here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5025742.

Throughout the talk, I touch upon different developments that guide the EC's analysis of AI under the DMA. Click and go directly to them through the links below:

- 04:03, The European Commission proposes draft implementation measures in relation to interoperability with Android OS features necessary to power AI: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/developer-portal/interoperability_en.

- 04:39, The European Commission proposes draft implementation measures to narrow down compliance with Article 6(11) DMA on search data: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/dma100209-consultation-proposed-measures-google-search-data-sharing_en.

- 07:38, Meta's decision to scrape data from its Facebook and Instagram services to feed it into its LLM: https://about.fb.com/news/2025/04/making-ai-work-harder-for-europeans/.

- 08:06, My opinion on such conduct as applied to Article 5(2) DMA: https://legalblogs.wolterskluwer.com/competition-blog/the-higher-regional-court-cologne-barks-up-the-wrong-data-tree-the-courts-interpretation-of-article-52b-dma-in-the-meta-ai-case/.

- 08:22, The Higher Regional Court of Cologne's dismissal of an interim injunction in the case (available in German): https://nrwe.justiz.nrw.de/olgs/koeln/j2025/15_UKl_2_25_Urteil_20250523.html.

- 12:10, The Regional Court of Munich granted the requested preliminary injunction and prohibited Google from disseminating statements about publishers in AI-generated summaries: https://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2026-N-11860?hl=true.

- 17:14, For more information on Amazon's Rufus and its interaction with the DMA, see my comment on their compliance workshop here: https://legalblogs.wolterskluwer.com/competition-blog/amazons-second-dma-compliance-workshop-the-power-of-no-where-the-balance-should-land/.

- 17:25, The European Commission's Amazon Buy Box case: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.40462.

- 18:59, My analysis on gatekeeper designation and the use of delineation: https://doi.org/10.1093/joclec/nhae011.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to DMA and AI Integration

02:15 Policy Options for AI Enforcement

04:10 Transformations in Market Dynamics

06:30 AI Features and Gatekeeper Services

08:40 Challenges of Data Regulation

10:23 The Evolution of Search with AI

15:38 Regulatory Implications of AI Overviews

19:34 Future of AI and DMA Enforcement

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.

________

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This interview with Dr. Anselm Küsters explores the EU's Tech Sovereignty Package, focusing on sovereignty as a capacity to act and the role of open source in fostering resilience and competition in Europe's digital infrastructure.

The Tech Sovereignty Package we discuss throughout the conversation can be found here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1187.

During the conversation, Anselm and I also raised several developments and sources that can be useful to understand the EU's broader sovereignty strategy. Click on them below to go to them directly:

- 00:23, The Draghi report: https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-report_en.

- 01:08, Dr Küsters' work on sovereignty as a precondition for openness: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351046050_The_Fight_for_Digital_Sovereignty_What_It_Is_and_Why_It_Matters_Especially_for_the_EU.

- 01:34, Dr. Küsters' initial assessment of the Tech Sovereignty Package, co-authored with Phillip Eckhardt and Dr. Matthias Kullas: https://www.cep.eu/eu-topics/details/eu-tech-sovereignty-package.html.

- 01:52, The German approach towards sovereignty: https://www.bmftr.bund.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/FS/1086286_Rahmenprogramm_FITS2030_en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=6.

- 01:55, An analysis of Carl Schmitt's definition of sovereignty: https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/files/90975147/CarlSchmittsDefinitionofSovereignty.pdf.

- 04:05, The EU's 2020 Data Strategy: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/strategy-data.

- 06:23, Reporting on the EC's potential issuing of equivalence decisions to US hyperscalers: https://www.euractiv.com/news/commissions-sovereign-cloud-plan-doesnt-push-us-hyperscalers-out/.

- 07:49, Dr. Küsters' work on 'Coping with the Digital Trilemma? Trade-Offs and Risks in EU Digital Policy', co-authored with Cecilia Emma Sottilotta: https://doi.org/10.1002/epa2.70023.

- 10:41, W.B. Gallie on 'Essentially Contested Concepts': https://www.jstor.org/stable/4544562.

- 12:28, Dr. Küsters' Small is Beautiful 2.0 book (available in German): https://www.herder.de/geschichte-politik/shop/p4/93614-small-is-beautiful-20-klappenbroschur/.

- 13:46, A summary in English of the Small is Beautiful 2.0 printed publication: https://commongroundeurope.eu/blog/small-is-beautiful-2-0-how-digital-decentralisation-can-strengthen-democracy/.

- 13:50, Dr. Küsters' weekly Substack, The Small Signal: https://anselmkuesters.substack.com/.

- 15:08, The EU's Digital Wallet: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/pages/694487738/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home.

- 17:36, Research on open source demonstrating that it reduces security risks: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3736426.3736467.

- 17:48, Linus's Law, coined by Eric S. Raymond in his book The Cathedral and the Bazaar, means that if a codebase is visible to a large community of developers and users, problems will be identified and fixed quickly.

- 18:27, Feasibility study on funding needed for open source maintenance: https://eu-stf.openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/EU-STF-Feasibility-Study_final.pdf.

- 18:33, The European Competitiveness Fund: https://commission.europa.eu/publications/european-competitiveness-fund_en.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to EU's Tech Sovereignty Package

03:54 Understanding Sovereignty in the Digital Sphere

07:41 The Four Tiers of Sovereignty

10:24 Trade-offs in EU Digital Policy

13:12 Open Source and Democratic Resilience

16:27 The Importance of Open Source for Competitiveness

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

This episode features Tim Cowen, discussing the impact of AI Overviews on market competition and news publishers. Tim presents the legal complaints and expertise he has rendered to competition authorities and agencies surrounding market suppression tactics, which can potentially be analysed as competition harms.

The episode was recorded before the CMA issued its conduct requirements relating to Google's AI Overviews under the DMCCA, see here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a1f0098b95db968c8f3bdb9/Publisher_CR_final_decision.pdf.

Throughout the conversation, Tim touched upon different tenets of enforcement that have been taking place surrounding Google's position in search. Click on them directly below:

- 01:35, Google's introduction of Bard in 2023: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/ai/bard-google-ai-search-updates/.

- 01:49, The French competition authority intervenes by fining Google relating to the use of publisher content: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/related-rights-autorite-fines-google-eu250-million.

- 02:48, The European Commission's Google Shopping decision: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.39740.

- 03:07, The Court of Justice's ruling in Android Auto (actioned by Enel's service, JuicePass): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/document?source=document&docid=295687&doclang=en.

- 08:53, Judge Mehta decides that AI is a separate product from search: https://www.npr.org/2025/09/19/nx-s1-5538073/google-search-antitrust-data-privacy.

- 10:19, The European Commission triggered a non-compliance procedure against Google's site reputation abuse policy: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-opens-investigation-potential-digital-markets-act-breach-google-demoting-media-publishers-2025-11-13_en.

- 11:23, Bauer Media announces major digital restructure with respect to Heat and Grazia magazines: https://digiday.com/media/bauer-media-group-slashes-publishing-headcount-in-company-wide-restructure/.

- 12:41, The Daily Mail reported a +70% decline in click-through rates due to the introduction of AI Overviews: https://digiday.com/media/daily-mail-says-google-ai-overviews-have-killed-click-throughs/.

- 13:36, Pew Research Center research on AI Overviews: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/07/22/google-users-are-less-likely-to-click-on-links-when-an-ai-summary-appears-in-the-results/.

- 13:36, Enders Analysis research on AI Overviews: https://www.endersanalysis.com/reports/publishers-invisibility-problem-organic-traffic-under-pressure.

- 13:36, MIT research on AI Overviews: https://www.mitsloanme.com/article/how-googles-near-accurate-ai-overviews-fuel-misinformation/.

- 13:49, Google announces that it will roll out more AI Overviews: https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/search/search-io-2026/.

- 14:15, SparkToro reporting on the zero-click world: https://sparktoro.com/blog/in-a-zero-click-world-traffic-is-a-terrible-goal/.

- 16:41, Judge Mehta rules AI Overviews conduct as out of scope: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/google-decision-demonstrates-need-to-overhaul-competition-policy-for-ai-era/.

- 26:15, Impact of AI on jobs in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/assessment-of-ai-capabilities-and-the-impact-on-the-uk-labour-market/assessment-of-ai-capabilities-and-the-impact-on-the-uk-labour-market.

Key moments

00:00 Introduction to AI Overviews and Competition Law

01:22 The Complaint Against Google: Background and Context

10:49 Google's Defense and the Impact on Publishers

16:28 Global Regulatory Landscape and the Role of Authorities

23:19 Proposed Remedies and the Future of Competition

To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.

The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.