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The BMK Vision Podcast
The BMK Vision Podcast episodes
- #116 - MSP Company Goals: Why Nobody Rallies Behind a Valuation | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE
Most MSP company goals say the same thing. Hit a valuation, sell the business. It is an honest goal and a reasonable one, and it satisfies every conventional rule about how a goal is supposed to be written. It is also a goal nobody on your leadership team will ever get out of bed for.
Josh Peterson and Gary Boyle, Partner for Strategy & Business Development at Bering McKinley, work through what a company goal is actually for, why MSPs stall at two million, why identical tactics build very different businesses depending on what they are pointed at, and where the reason for a goal belongs once you finally write the goal down.
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What We Cover in This Episode
- Diagnose why MSPs plateau at two million and what changes above it- Separate pushing tactics into a business from pulling them through a vision- Interrogate "provide for my family" into a real number and a real life- Ask the two questions that precede every long term goal- Explain why a valuation target mobilizes nobody but the owner- Show what an owner independence goal does to a leadership team- Decide whether the number or the purpose belongs in the headline- Name the peer group as the real ceiling on what an owner believes is possible----------
Host Links
Josh Peterson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshdpeterson/Gary Boyle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyboyle/Company Website: https://beringmckinley.com----------
Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast):https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
SEO Keywords
- MSP company goals- MSP goal setting- MSP strategic planning- MSP two million ceiling- MSP exit planning- leadership team alignment- owner dependency- long term business goals- Vision Operating System- MSP business strategy----------
Credits
Host: Josh PetersonProducer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #116 - MSP Company Goals: Why Nobody Rallies Behind a Valuation | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE39 min - #115 - MSP Term Contracts: Why Month to Month Keeps Clients | FROM THE TRENCHES
Robert Weber has run Weber TC in the Kansas City market since 2003 and has never once used a termed contract. His reasoning is not about trust. A term contract does not hold a client, it schedules the exact moment that client is required to decide whether to leave. Month to month clients could go any day, so they never do.
Robert Weber is the CEO of Weber TC, and in this conversation we explore contract structure, the blend of hourly and managed services inside one client base, and what recurring revenue is actually earning. Josh Peterson brings the margin side that most owners have never measured.
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What We Cover in This Episode- Why managed services fails on execution rather than design
- The agreement gross profit report most MSPs cannot produce on request- Pricing to the client instead of forcing everyone onto one model- Requiring baseline security on every account, including hourly clients- How a termed contract manufactures the churn it is meant to prevent- When 35 to 50 percent gross profit still loses to your own hourly rate- Trading known margin today for a bet on the exit multiple later- Why arguing about inclusions means the model has already lost- Hiring for communication and teaching the tech afterward----------
Guest LinksGuest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-weber-7b48b216/
Company Website: https://www.webertc.com/----------
Subscribe & Follow BMK VisionYouTube (Video Podcast):
https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:
https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:
https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
SEO Keywords- MSP term contracts
- MSP client retention- Month to month MSP agreement- Agreement gross profit- Hourly vs managed services- MSP pricing model- MSP profitability- Managed service providers- BMK Vision Podcast----------
CreditsHost: Josh Peterson
Producer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #115 - MSP Term Contracts: Why Month to Month Keeps Clients20 min - #114 - MSP Payroll Debt - You Can't Grow Out of a Profit Problem | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE
Most MSP owners can name the exact week they first borrowed money to make payroll. Josh Peterson and Gary Boyle treat that moment as a diagnosis rather than a cash flow event, and work backwards from it through gross profit, spending discipline, and the reason a new revenue line almost never rescues a business that is already unprofitable.
Gary Boyle is Partner for Strategy and Business Development at Bering McKinley, and this roundtable is drawn from a client conversation that Josh recognized as his own situation two years earlier. We get into what to check first, what to stop spending, and what a healthy MSP net profit actually looks like.
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What We Cover in This Episode
- Read borrowing to make payroll as a structural signal rather than a timing gap
- Ask the two questions that decide whether the draw is defensible- Apply the one month payoff test before the balance becomes permanent- Separate revenue from gross profit and stop reporting the vanity number- Recognize why new service lines inherit the margin you already have- Understand why MSPs carry debt worse than businesses with lumpy, high margin deals- Distinguish a personal guarantee from the corporate debt large companies raise- Run a line by line spend review going back a full twelve months- Price a write off honestly, at your tax bracket rather than at 100 percent- Sequence the fix: below the line spend first, then the two gross profit levers----------
Host Links
Josh Peterson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshdpeterson/
Gary Boyle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyboyle/----------
Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast):
https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:
https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:
https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
SEO Keywords
- MSP payroll debt
- Borrowing to make payroll- MSP net profit- MSP gross profit- MSP profitability- MSP spend review- MSP line of credit- Personal guarantee risk- Managed service provider finance- MSP owner compensation----------
Credits
Host: Josh Peterson
Co-Host: Gary BoyleProducer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #114 - MSP Payroll Debt - You Can't Grow Out of a Profit Problem50 min - #113 - The End of MSP Middleware: Build It Yourself? | FROM THE TRENCHES
The connector economy is under real pressure for the first time, and the numbers behind that are uncomfortable. Josh Peterson has spent about $12,000 over twenty years on one piece of middleware. Rob Miller rebuilt a $20,000 website in an afternoon for roughly $2,000 in tokens. This conversation sits in the gap between those two facts.
Rob Miller is the founder of VIP IT, Inc., a Los Angeles managed IT services and cybersecurity provider, and one of the most AI-forward operators in the MSP channel. We explore what MSP owners should actually build, what they should keep buying, and where the production line has to be drawn.
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What We Cover in This Episode
- Separate the subscription price from the cost of not owning the roadmap
- Distinguish automation from AI, and build accordingly- Budget for consumption pricing instead of counting seats- Draw an explicit production line before the first build, not after the first incident- Assess vendor risk through the lens of security debt they cannot fund- Treat every third-party document as untrusted input- Stand up an AI practice with one hire and a client time study- Price against hours returned rather than technology delivered- Map AI adoption appetite vertical by vertical across your base- Weight API quality over a vendor's in-product AI agent----------
Guest Links
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robmiller73/
Company Website: https://vipitinc.com----------
Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast):
https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:
https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:
https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
SEO Keywords
- MSP middleware
- Build vs buy for MSPs- MSP integrations- AI for MSPs- MSP automation- AI practice for MSPs- ConnectWise API- MSP vendor risk- AI security for MSPs- Managed service provider strategy----------
Credits
Host: Josh Peterson
Producer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #113 - The End of MSP Middleware: Build It Yourself?49 min - #112 - MSP Sales Activity Tracking - You Can't Coach a Quota | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE
Every MSP owner who hires a salesperson eventually hears some version of the same complaint: I hired you to sell, so let me sell. This roundtable puts that argument under real pressure.
Josh Peterson and Gary Boyle open an unprompted email from a sales manager titled "Your Activity Tracking Obsession Is Killing My Soul," and use it to separate two questions owners usually collapse into one. Is activity tracking worth doing, and has anyone actually built a quota worth tracking against?
Josh makes the case that data is what makes coaching and firing decisions possible at all. Gary agrees, then argues that most owners bolt tracking onto a quota they never designed, and that paying a setter only for appointments quietly buys the wrong behavior. Josh gives ground on a position he has held for years.
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What We Cover in This Episode
- Diagnose why a quota you've never enforced isn't a standard
- Separate leading indicators from the trailing revenue number- Rebuild the SDR day into hours that map to the quota- Set outreach and appointment targets for the first 60 days- Decide how long a new sales hire actually gets- Structure appointment pay so ICP qualification matters- Spot the incentive that quietly buys the wrong behavior- Connect a rep's daily work to the company outcomePlus: why this conversation needed a companion episode on the full sales-rep role.
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Host & Co-Host Links
Josh Peterson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshdpeterson/
Gary Boyle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyboyle/Company: https://beringmckinley.com----------
Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast):
https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:
https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:
https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
SEO Keywords
- MSP sales activity tracking
- MSP sales time tracking- SDR compensation- Sales quota design- Leading indicators- ICP qualification- MSP sales management- BMK Vision Podcast----------
Credits
Host: Josh Peterson
Co-Host: Gary BoyleProducer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #112 - MSP Sales Activity Tracking - You Can't Coach a Quota46 min - #111 - EOS vs MAP: Why Self-Implementing Stalls Your Business | FROM THE TRENCHES
"We run EOS" usually turns out to mean "we bought a tool." Josh Peterson sits down with Michael Caito — the CEO who built Restaurants on the Run into a $40M pre-internet DoorDash, sold it to Grubhub, then bought MAP, the consulting firm that had coached his own company for fifteen years.
Michael Caito is the Owner & CEO of MAP (Management Action Programs), and in this conversation we explore EOS vs MAP, why self-implemented operating systems stall into to-do lists, and why every MSP business should be built to sell — even if the owner never intends to sell it.
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🎙 What We Cover in This Episode
- Compare EOS and MAP where it actually matters: facilitation, cadence, and manager training
- Diagnose the "to-do list in a tool" failure mode of self-run systems- Understand why a CEO can't facilitate and participate in the same meeting- Swap quarterly planning theater for monthly compounding accountability- Reclaim management: one person accountable beats seven player-coaches- Build enterprise value early, so selling is a choice — not a scramble- Escape the peer-group trap that caps you at the average of the room- Qualify like MAP does: hungry and humble, or no deal----------
👤 Guest Links
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelcaitomap/
Company Website: https://mapconsulting.com----------
🚀 Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast):
https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:
https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:
https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
🔎 SEO Keywords
- MAP vs EOS
- Business operating system- EOS alternative- CEO coaching- Business accountability- Enterprise value- Build a business you can sell- Managed service providers- BMK Vision Podcast----------
📝 Credits
Host: Josh Peterson
Producer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #111 - EOS vs MAP: Why Self-Implementing Stalls Your Business | FROM THE TRENCHES49 min - #110 - Customer Discovery for MSPs: Dwell Before You Sell | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE
Your ticket surveys come back 95% satisfied - and Josh Peterson doesn't care. In this BMK Vision Roundtable, Josh and Gary Boyle bring in customer discovery expert Bob London to settle what actually measures client loyalty, and the answer isn't a score. It's a conversation most MSPs never have.
Bob London is the creator of Radically Authentic Discovery (RAD) and a former CMO with 3,000+ customer discovery conversations behind him, and in this conversation we explore why surveys mislead, how "seller's itch" derails discovery calls, and how curiosity becomes a competitive edge. Along the way: the board-meeting question, the mute-button discipline, and where a listening tour fits for MSPs still shaping their go-to-market.
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What We Cover in This Episode
- Why 95% post-ticket satisfaction scores tell you nothing about loyalty
- Where NPS misleads - and the qualifier question that exposes it- The board-meeting question that opens executive conversations- Seller's itch: the moment sellers pounce and deals stall- Dwell before you sell - and the mute-button discipline- Grading discovery calls with AI against the RAD standard- Why "I'm not a sales guy" might be your biggest advantage- Listening tours: hearing gaps before they become churn----------
Guest Links
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/boblondon
Guest Website: https://boblondon.co----------
Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast):
https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Learn More About the Vision Platform:
https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest:
https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------
SEO Keywords
- Customer discovery
- MSP sales- Discovery call questions- Net Promoter Score- Client listening- Sales coaching- Radically Authentic Discovery- MSP client retention- BMK Vision Podcast----------
Credits
Host: Josh Peterson
Co-Host: Gary BoyleProducer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #110 - Customer Discovery for MSPs: Dwell Before You Sell | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE1 hr 2 min - #109 - Owner-Led Sales: Why MSP Owners Can't Let Go | FROM THE TRENCHES
Owner-led sales: a necessary stage, a deliberate strategy, or a cop-out? Josh Peterson and Trevor Dierdorff, Founder & CEO of Amnet, take the question head-on and land somewhere more useful than either extreme.
Trevor Dierdorff is the Founder & CEO of Amnet, a Colorado MSP he's run for 26+ years, and in this conversation we explore why sales and sales management are different professions, why his salesperson hires failed, and how an intentional culture became his real competitive edge.
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What We Cover in This Episode
- Why owner-led sales frustrates Josh - and where it's genuinely justified
- Sales vs. sales management: two skills owners keep conflating- The owner's halo and why teaching a rep your pitch backfires- Managing activities, not people, to hold sellers accountable- Culture by design: "Good morning, superheroes"- Hiring for fit: don't put chocolate chips in the beef stew- Marketing air cover: a prospect-driven podcast and an executive forum----------------------------------------
Guest Links
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevordierdorff/
Company Website: https://amnet.net----------------------------------------
Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast): https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1
Learn More About the Vision Platform: https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest: https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form----------------------------------------
SEO Keywords: Owner-led sales, MSP sales management, Hiring a sales manager, MSP company culture, Hiring for culture fit, Managed service providers, MSP marketing, BMK Vision Podcast
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Credits
Host: Josh Peterson
Producer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #109 - Owner-Led Sales: Why MSP Owners Can't Let Go | FROM THE TRENCHES55 min - #108 - Does the 33% Payroll Benchmark Just Mean Fire People? | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE
A listener sent The BMK Vision Podcast a one-line challenge: "Your 33% service salaries to service revenue benchmark just means fire people. Admit it." In this roundtable, Josh Peterson and Gary Boyle take the accusation head-on — and concede more ground than you might expect.
Gary Boyle is Partner for Strategy & Business Development at Bering McKinley, and in this conversation, we explore what the 33% payroll benchmark actually measures, when the math really does point at headcount, and the decision owners must make before either answer is right.
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🎙 What We Cover in This Episode
- Decoding the 33% service salaries to service revenue benchmark- Restructuring your chart of accounts so service costs sit above gross profit- Confronting the PTO math that breaks 75% utilization targets- Weighing firing against raising rates when cash runway is short- Exposing the phantom pipeline that keeps MSPs overstaffed- Diagnosing the rare ratio that's too low — and why it's still a risk- Reframing every MSP as a supply and demand equation⸻
👤 Guest Links
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyboyle/ Company Website: https://beringmckinley.com
⸻
🚀 Subscribe & Follow BMK Vision
YouTube (Video Podcast): https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1
Learn More About the Vision Platform: https://beringmckinley.com/vision
Apply to Be a Guest: https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form
⸻
🔎 SEO Keywords
- MSP payroll benchmark- Service salaries to service revenue- MSP utilization- MSP profitability- MSP KPIs- Managed service providers- MSP financial management- BMK Vision Podcast⸻
📝 Credits
Host: Josh Peterson Producer: Bering McKinley Episode: #108 - Does the 33% Payroll Benchmark Just Mean Fire People? | BMK VISION ROUNDTABLE
28 min - #107 - The MSP Owners Who Got Tired of Waiting and Built Their Own PSA | From The Trenches
After 20 years inside ConnectWise and AutoTask, two MSP operators decided they were done waiting for the unified PSA the industry kept promising — so they built one. In this From The Trenches episode of The BMK Vision Podcast, Josh Peterson talks with the founders of IgnitHQ about what it actually takes to start a PSA from scratch in 2026.
Guest Introduction
Yaron Baitch is the founder and CEO of IgnitHQ and the CIO of Digital Practice Inc., a dental-focused MSP with offices in Hawaii and Connecticut. Tom Goembel leads operations for IgnitHQ and brings front-line MSP execution experience to the platform's day-to-day workflow design. IgnitHQ launched publicly in May 2026 with 80+ native modules sharing a single data model and AI built in at the database layer.🎙 What We Cover in This Episode
- Why a "unified" platform on a disparate database is not actually unified- Single source of truth — and what it actually unlocks across PSA / RMM / billing / documentation- AI at the database layer vs. AI bolted on top after the fact- Familiarity bias — the hardest moat in the PSA category- The skeptics corner — answering every objection in public- Month-to-month pricing and the dual-write bridge — reducing buyer anxiety on the cutover- The Arizona Iced Tea pricing thesis — being profitable enough at the low price- Marketplace and partner-driven go-to-market over blast email- Preparing the customer-success team before the scaling problem arrives⸻
👤 Guest & Host LinksYaron Baitch (LinkedIn): [NEEDS VERIFICATION]Tom Goembel (LinkedIn): [NEEDS VERIFICATION]IgnitHQ: https://www.ignithq.com/Josh Peterson (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshdpeterson/⸻
🚀 Subscribe & Follow BMK VisionYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1Vision Platform: https://beringmckinley.com/visionApply to Be a Guest: https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form⸻
🔎 SEO Keywordsunified MSP platform, IgnitHQ, PSA alternative, ConnectWise alternative, AutoTask alternative, AI native PSA, single data model MSP, BMK Vision Podcast, From The Trenches MSP, Bering McKinley📝 Credits
Host: Josh PetersonGuests: Yaron Baitch (Founder & CEO, IgnitHQ); Tom Goembel (Operations, IgnitHQ)Producer: Bering McKinleyEpisode: #107 - The MSP Owners Who Got Tired of Waiting and Built Their Own PSA1 hr
About The BMK Vision Podcast
From the publisher's feed
Welcome to The BMK Vision Podcast — the show for MSP leaders, IT professionals, and the vendors who support them. Hosted by the team at Bering McKinley, each episode delivers real-world insights,…
strategic guidance, and no-BS conversations to help you grow, scale, and profit in the managed services space. We challenge outdated models, highlight proven standards, and share stories from the front lines of consulting. Whether you’re just getting started or running a mature MSP, this podcast helps you bring clarity, structure, and profitability to your business.