The Business of Business Podcast

Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility with Bobby Machado

Bobby shares off-site SEO strategies. This is one part of SEO that people hear the least about during strategy sessions. These are the kind of tactics that Google build it strategy on. Do others in this area view this website as an expert? Backlinks, links from other sites back to yours are important indicators and very important.

About Bobby:

Bobby is the CEO and Lead Strategist at Signa Marketing, CEO at Sector 7 Apps, and a partner at Quick Job Products with his brother Cesar Machado.

As a kid, Bobby always had an interest in business such as providing landscaping services, training horses, or reselling “Tang” back to his parents during 5 grade. His experience in the digital world began when he taught himself how to code websites in high school, which turned into a way for Bobby to make money on the side while racing motocross, which remains as one of his passions to this day.

After he stopped competitively racing at the age of 22, Bobby decided to focus his full-time efforts in web development as a freelance web developer, which then introduced him into the digital marketing world. Being the analytical and creative type, Bobby developed a passion for digital marketing and data.

After working at an automotive digital marketing agency as a paid media specialist, managing a little over $300,000 per month in Google Ad spend for several auto dealerships in the United States, Bobby combined my passion for business and launched Signa Marketing.

Signa Marketing currently makes up about 70% of Bobby’s time and he enjoys hosting a Signa Marketing show named “Blueprint”, in which he answers any and all user-submitted questions on how to market their business online. New episodes are released on Signa Marketing’s YouTube Channel.

Overall, Bobby enjoys being immersed in anything “digital” that has a positive impact on people and humanity.

www.signamarketing.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

 

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (00:03):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm your host, Roy, of course we are in the middle of our digital marketing series on SEO with Bobby, from Cigna marketing, Bobby, how are you doing today?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (00:17):

Uh, doing a really, really great out here in Phoenix, which has got some rain. And so we're enjoying that, that he came up at the ranch the last night as well by yourself.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (00:25):

Uh, we're doing good. We are drying out and, uh, fixing to move into spring. So everything is good here. So, uh, last week we did, uh, our second episode on and it was on onsite SEO. This series is based on SEO for parts, and this is going to be part three today. We're going to talk about off-site SEO. So I encourage you to go back and listen to our two previous episodes to kind of start with the basics then the on-site. And so now we'll do offsite. So with that, I'm going to let you take it away. I think kind of where we left off is building authority and trying to drive our search rankings.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (01:02):

Awesome. No, it sounds great. So offsite, SEO, I feel like is the Porsche of SEO that people hear less of, uh, and onsite is always kind of like more on the forefront when it comes to business owners, knowing about, you know, SEO and so forth. Right? So one thing too, to note big time is offsite. SEO is really the, the major impact that, uh, affects rankings in terms of driving rankings and attaining traffic. Okay. So the best way to explain it, as you know, on-site SEO is what you're claiming. Basically you're telling the user and in search engines who you are, what you do, where you do it here, my, you know what credibility you have, stuff like that, but these are all claims and all of the claims need to be backed. And so that's where offsite SEO comes, uh, into the light on, on proving those, those claims and at a high level offsite is, uh, having high authority websites that link back to your website, basically saying, giving you a thumbs up and saying, Hey, what this website is saying is actually true. And this is our it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (02:06):

Yeah. And this is where, uh, you probably have a better understanding. I'll let you explain the history of Google. This is really what in the early days, what set them apart from other search engines and algorithms, because basically my understanding is they were looking at words on pages and saying, you know, that was really all they did. If you mentioned your word on the page, then obviously they tried to move traffic to you. But when Google came, came along, they said, well, if we got 300 pages, 300 sites that all have the same word on it, you know, who is the biggest authority. And so that's why they started looking at, uh, how many links from other pages linked back to you. And then there were some, uh, Tom Foolery going around with that. So then it's like, they, they made these domain ranking. So now it's like, if you, you know, like the, the big ones, the MSNs the Forbes and, you know, they have very high ranking. So if they linked back to you, very good versus, you know, you know, a link farm Lincoln back to you, it's going to kind of get you in trouble.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (03:11):

Yeah. That's exactly it. Yeah. You want to kind of stay away from any, any fake stuff, more real mentions that you can get the more real links, uh, the better and the safer, of course

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (03:23):

It takes time. I think, you know, we, we talked about that earlier and it never hurts to mention it again, is that this is a long-term strategy. Yeah. I mean, we can post something that goes viral and we'll get a big kick from it. But typically this SEO is a long play. It is just, it's a grind, there's no silver bullet, it's doing the right things with all of your posting, with all of your pages and keeping that up as you go out in time and it'll pay off and it'll pay off in with the long tail. It's not something that you see a spike and then it goes away. It'll be something that you can stay up there.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (03:56):

Right? Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, even, even if people are thinking about traditional PR, you know, you're not just going to have one story written about you and it, it, it changes your life. I can, you know, maybe if you got on Oprah or Allen tomorrow type of deal, but, you know, uh, PR those fundamentals are the same here. When we talk about off-site SEO, is that essentially digital PR. And you're looking to build that over time and it's, you know, it's not going to be built in a day type of deal. So you want to be able to, uh, make sure that you have a strategy and a process for executing a consistent effort of attaining those votes of back links from high authority sites in you're going to get a mixture over time, you'll get sites that maybe don't have that much authority, but, you know, if it's high quality it's relevant should absolutely, um, uh, take it in that sense.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (04:44):

Uh, and then you definitely want to get a mixture of really high authority sites, uh, linking back. But there's a couple of different strategies that we can dive into on, on how to that one is definitely one of my favorites, uh, which is guest blog, posting doing guest blog posts. Essentially what you're doing is seeking out publishers or other websites that are speaking about the same subject as yours, and offering to write a free piece of content for them. So that, uh, and in that free piece of content, you'll have a natural, highly relevant link pointing back to your site to a specific page that actually makes sense to tie those, those two, right. So what happens is, you know, your gain, a great, you know, link back and the publisher has gained a free piece of content that's of value to their users. So that's what, at a high level, what that exchange looks like. And as always to meet, you know, uh, the, the objective of delivering value to each, each end user, you know, in that sense. So it's not just to do a trade or anything like that, but it's actually because the publisher genuinely feels that you're going to write a piece of content that their audience actually wants.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (05:50):

Right. Yeah. And I think you mentioned earlier that, you know, we need to take a view of this as PR and that this is, uh, uh, long-term exposure, because I may not need your service today, but if you are doing SEO and other things, right, you're going to stay in front of me or that way in a month, two months from now, when I do need that product or service, you're going to be top of mine. So we need to keep that in, keep that in my own team.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (06:16):

Yes, yes. A hundred percent. And, uh, and, and even it can even go dabble into forming actual, true relationships with a lot of different publishers and the individuals within these publishing sites and stuff. Um, because you always want to think of from a content marketing perspective, you know, how can I provide value to their audience? Um, and when you're, when you're providing value, the opportunities open up where you can receive a link back to your article, et cetera. Um, and the more you do that, the more consistent that effort is that effort is, uh, the rankings will come over time. And what you're building is an asset, because those lanes, you're not going to lose them tomorrow. If you're building fake links, you can lose them. Uh, no one really thinks about that. They think like, Hey, I built this link. It's going to last forever. You know, it's not the case. I mean, a lot of sites go down or maybe change or something like that. And you lose that link. And so by doing these types of strategies too, you're building something that's much more sustainable as well. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (07:13):

And I assume that, um, if I write an article for somebody with a higher domain, if I've got it keywords that the topic relates to my business or service, that the chances are, I may get exposure over on their site because they've got the higher domain authority than I might, if I posted the same content on mine. So there there's also, you know, just the, I guess, just their sheer numbers and the however much traffic they get. We can think our odds go up by being on their site too.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (07:46):

Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent correct, too. You want to look at, you know, how much traffic is their website already attaining, because there's already a ton of traffic going to their site of loyal readers. Um, that's a great way to pretty much not, I don't want to say the word siphon, but that's where you're going to, that's where you're going to receive some traffic from their audience. Cause they're being introduced to your site instead of, so yeah. So th that's why there's just so many benefits and it's also why SEO gets very complicated because it's, you know, we, we always want to try to simplify things and say, okay, it's, it's one, this one thing that's going to be here. And this is not the holiday. So that's why I look at it like a puzzle. And you're trying to do is just really get this puzzle really organized so that then you can execute upon it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (08:34):

Yeah. And, you know, I can attest to this before you start out on the backlink journey, you need to get an extra helping of patients because it takes time, you know, reaching out, especially to, you know, these higher domain authorities. You have to realize that they get a lot of a request and that's why you really need to be able to market to them. And you really need to have a very well-written in a high quality content article to present to them.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (09:03):

Yes. Yeah. And that's, again, exactly. It it's, it's a long, a long process. That's why it's tough. That's why, like you kind of just grinded it out and there's strategies and processes and systems that you can employ man, and stuff like that to really streamline workflow. Um, but this is why, you know, true SEO is hard and why it's an investment of time and resources, but, you know, to build something true and real, you know, it's, it's not an, a, it's not going to be something that you can just, you know, do me an hour a month or something like that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (09:34):

Yeah. Now, um, so what about local? You know, that's kind of more of a, you know, the bigger ones may be more national exposure, but what if we want to try to, uh, if we're a local service provider in a geographic area, how can we go about helping ourself with that?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (09:49):

Absolutely. So when it comes to local lists, you know, um, I just to keep things simple, I try to, I, I like to say that your Google, my business is about 50% of, of SEO efforts in the sense that you want to make sure that it's not only to built out, but it's really, you know, you're taking advantage of all the features that Google gives you within that profile. Um, making sure that all your services are really built down in listed in there, making sure that every, every item that's relevant to your business is build out, uh, within that profile. Um, and then, uh, regarding that profile and make sure that there's a consistent process for posts and making sure maybe it's like a weekly post or something like that, that you're sending out and that you have a process for obtaining, uh, reviews on a consistent basis.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (10:33):

Um, you should have a photo call internally if it's yourself or a team that says, okay, when a happy customer report they leave, this is the checklist of what we do to get a, a review. And so you want to make sure that your internal infrastructure is in sync with, with that, uh, because that will compound, you know, effect your local SEO over the course of time. It's also how people make buying decisions. You know, because if you have three people ranking that the local package is that, you know, where you see listings with the stars, right. They only have three. And if everyone has, you know, the everyone's ranking at the top, right, there are people are like, okay, well, who am I going to choose? And reputation is usually one that one of those huge indicators that say, okay, you know what, I'm going to call this only because they have 150 reviews and it's five stars, anxiety type of deal.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (11:18):

So, uh, so that that's one major factor. The other, uh, in relation to Google, my business is going to be making sure that your nap, your name, address, and phone number is consistent to the team across all online directories, which is what we also call citations. Um, and, uh, those citations are always going to at least carry those three, you know, details at a bare minimum, but it's a way for a search engine to ensure that they understand who you are. And you know, what your contact information is when they start to seek discrepancies between citations for a certain business, uh, the trust level decreases. So what you're looking to do is make sure that you're just a hundred percent, you know, solid in terms of your Napa process on, uh, all I know your online presence and that boosts the trust level from a search engine standpoint. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (12:08):

To make that point too, to always reach out, to get those, uh, you know, w to get, um, the, um, recommendations that we can put on our website as well. I think that means a lot because the one thing with, uh, with, uh, Yelp and some of these other, um, ranking or the, uh, evaluation sites is we have to remember, um, uh, see what is it that upset customers will reach out to eight people? Eight upset customers will tell eight people, a happy customer will tell one. And so we kind of have to work harder to help, uh, promote and get, move those, uh, happy customers out to the front. Uh, you know, not that we want to cover up, we can always learn from poor reviews for sure. Try to manage it. And, um, uh, you know, I know we don't want to get too off track on that, but I think it's a good, it's a good way to address them. We can't dismiss them. You, you can't call people out for being crazy because I've seen some strings where the business owner and the client, the client had a problem. It's a typical problem. You may encounter at any business, but then the owner jumps in and just makes it worse,

Bobby - Signa Marketing (13:21):

Right? Yeah. No, Hey, here's the fire? Let me put some more gas on.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (13:26):

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just a match for a moment. And then all of a sudden it was a bonfire by the time this guy got through with it. So it's just good. You know, we have problems, we have to dress it and say, you know what? Sorry you had it. I'm gonna make it right for you because I look for that. I, yeah. Businesses are gonna have trouble. How do they handle it once that we get to, anyway, I know that's kind of digressing,

Bobby - Signa Marketing (13:47):

But that's such a great opportunity to yeah. Because when you have exactly what you're mentioning is when there's a fire, you have an opportunity to showcase how you as a business handle those. And I typically, I see those as like, almost like a blessing of opportunity because you don't necessarily always get those opportunities unless something bad happens. Right. So, so it's always, uh, something to, to, um, kind of see in a positive light of an opportunity to showcase, Hey, cool. Like, this is how we can, we can show people in public form how we handle these, these situations.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (14:20):

Yeah. And it, it, you know, negative feedback. It's, uh, sometimes we think that it's not, it's not always good. It's not always in our best interest for sure. But I think you gotta look at it from the business owner. If we don't get negative feedback, how do we know things are wrong? How can we change? And so that was why, you know, I always welcome feedback from my clients because I want to know what can I change to make this customer experience better? If I never hear from you, then it just stays the same poor quality that people may be experienced in that, you know, because you got to look at it this way, why I think is good and what I want is very different from what customers want. So anyway, we always have to be dialing that in, but

Bobby - Signa Marketing (15:00):

All around. True. Yep. Yep.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (15:02):

All right, Bobby. Well, uh, anything else you want to add on the offsite before,

Bobby - Signa Marketing (15:05):

Before we get out of here? So I think that wraps up our offsite, SEO. I mean, there's a few other, uh, pretty technical ways to, to execute backlink acquisition campaigns. You know, we touched on guest blog posting, I would say it's a grid, keep this simple. It's just because there's more technical strategies out there for sure. But is, you know, I would, I would encourage people to participate more on digital PR even from doing things, even like, you know, uh, items like videos like this, where, uh, where you're producing content, because when there's content produced, there's always links involved and to connect people and stuff like that. And so the more you continue to really put in the time and the effort to, to building your digital PR the better. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (15:49):

All right, Bobby. Well, again, thank you so much for stopping by and we appreciate the, uh, all this great information that you're giving us. So how can people reach out to you there at Cigna market?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (16:00):

Yeah. So you can visit [email protected]. That's S I G N as in Nancy, a marketing.com. Uh, and we also have a YouTube show called blueprint where I answer any and all digital marketing questions related to marketing your business online. So if anyone's out there and it has a specific question, and even the more specific, the better, uh, feel free to send it our way you can find us at Cigna Mark at any, uh, is our social media handles everywhere. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, or LinkedIn, you can find us there and just submit a comment or a direct message, and we'll make sure that it gets answered on the next time. So

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 3, Off-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (16:36):

Awesome. Well, y'all reach out to Bobby, see how he can help you on your SEO. Uh, next week, we're going to be back with, uh, re optimizing or redesigning existing sites. Uh, you know, sometimes we've let things go so far that maybe it's time for a little bit of an overhaul. So we'll talk about that next time. Uh, again, thanks for listening. This is the business of business [email protected]. We're on all the major social media networks, as well as podcast platforms until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your business.

www.signamarketing.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

     

Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don't Let Payroll Become Your Downfall with Charles Read

Your employees want to be paid correctly and on time. There are payroll taxes and quarterly filings. Employees must be classified correctly as new hires and have all the correct forms and documentation to be in compliance. Government agencies are not forgiving of mistakes made during the payroll process and can level fines and penalties.

About Charles

Charles J Read is a Certified Public Accountant (CPA), U.S Tax Court Practitioner ( USTCP), member of Internal Revenue Service Advisory Council (IRSAC) and the Founder of GetPayroll.

Mr. Read’s companies have provided full-service payroll services, payroll tax services, and other payroll-related services since 1991.

Charles is an accomplished senior executive and entrepreneur with more than fifty years of financial leadership experience in a broad range of industries and author of four books, the most recent one being The Payroll Book: A Guide For Small Businesses and Startups

www.getpayroll.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy, we appreciate you joining. And this podcast is dedicated to our solo preneurs entrepreneurs and small businesses. We like to bring you new and innovative ideas and also provide you with solutions to problems that you may be having in your normal day to day businesses. So today, uh, we've got a great guest. We're going to talk about some very important stuff. Uh, his name is Charles Reed. He is a certified public accountant, also a U.S. tax court practitioner and a member of the internal revenue service advisory council, and the founder of Getpayroll. Uh, Mr. Reed's companies have provided full service, full service, payroll services, payroll tax services, and other payroll related services. Since 1991, Charles is also an accomplished senior executive and entrepreneur with more than 50 years of financial leadership experience in a broad range of industries and author of four books. The most recent being the payroll book, a guide for small businesses and startups, Charles, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us.

Charles (01:18):

Roy, my pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (01:20):

You know, I know that 2020 I'm sure has been a challenging time, uh, you know, payroll taxes. I'm just going to speak from the olden days, you know, back when we had to calculate them by hand and then dial them in with the phone. I know things have gotten a lot easier where you could be a lot more accurate, but I'm sure this year has been a, this has been a year for the books for, uh, people in the payroll business.

Charles (01:48):

Oh, absolutely. All the changes that have happened. Uh, and the continual changes, uh, you know, when they first put in the PPP program, they changed it probably twice a week for four months and they're still changing it on, on how to get your forgiveness and so on. Yeah. It's, it's been a very interesting year, frankly, payroll really changed starting with, uh, um, president Obama, Obama, and he did lots of tax changes. Lots of payroll changes for eight years. We didn't have as much under Donald Trump until this last year. And it's just gone. Yeah, absolutely insane. And we're expecting more changes in the following years, uh, on and on and on, um, taxes are going to go up, uh, payroll taxes, unemployment is going to go up. It's, it's, it's a very interesting time and it's probably not going to get less interesting.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (02:47):

Right, right. Yeah. And I know there's not, uh, you know, I don't want to dwell on the past because there's not much, you know, unless people are in trouble trying to work their way out. You know, we want to talk about some things that are upcoming. One thing did hear or have heard. I just want to get a clarification are that there were some deferred payroll taxes and correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I heard this wrong, but I just want to be clear on that word deferred because sometimes people don't understand that and think that that means that they will never have to pay it. But deferred typically means that it's been moved out to some point in the future.

Charles (03:26):

President Trump issued an executive order, allowing employees and employers to defer the FICA taxes for literally the last four months of this year. But they had to be repaid in the first five months of next year. Okay. Okay. By the employee, he supposedly the problem with that was the employer was on the hook. If he allowed his employees to defer taxes and then they quit, God laid off died or whatever, he was still on the hook, the employer paying those deferred taxes. So none of my clients allowed their employees to do it. In fact, probably the only place that it was widespread was the federal government. Because president Trump could insist that the government agencies do it for their employees. The rest of us said, this isn't a big deal. It's not a lot of money is deferred for a short period of time. And as the employer, I'm not going to take the risk. Right. You know, unemployment is rampant. We get another uptick in. COVID like we're getting now and. We may have to lay everybody off and close it down again. And then we have to pay it back. Right. And if we don't pay it back, penalties and interest rat IRS is very, is not known as a forgiving agency. I promise you. Yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (04:50):

Exactly. Yeah. You, yeah. You know, we had a time where we made like a 10, it was like a 7 cent, 8 cent mistake and they didn't call you up and say, Hey, you know, it's just 7 cents between friends. Why don't you just not worry about it? They were like, if you don't get that 7 cents to us pretty quick, it's going to turn into a $5 bill. Yeah, exactly. So, um, do we have any, I guess there's, you know, I do want to make this point about payroll because I say this about my taxes all the time is that I can do taxes. I can even do my payroll, but the, the good thing about having professionals like yourself is that they're always, there's always guidance and there's always changes coming out through the year. And I think that's where you get your money's worth with the professional, because you know, you're on top of these things that, uh, you know, I might have to sit down every end of quarter and try to think, okay, what's the new change? What's this, what's the N you know, where that's your business and you stay on top of it.

Charles (05:53):

Yeah. If you know about it now for our clients, we send out stuff all the time. Yeah. You know, I'm on the IRS advisory council for the last three years. We're involved in a lot of things, some of which are confidential still, but like the new NTC form that's effective January one of this coming year, you no longer for non-employee compensation. Use the 10 99 MIS you use the 10 99 NTC. Okay. Well, if you're not reading the, the, the, the trades, you may not know it. Yeah. And if you filed the 10 99 minutes, the government's just going to send them back to you. And by then you're late. Yeah. So you have penalties. So the having a, having a professional, I, you know, I've done other things in my life. I used to do a lot of accounting and tax work for individuals and corporations.

Charles (06:45):

I don't do that anymore because I can't keep up on employment taxes and payroll and payroll changes and all the things that go with it and all the related stuff. And keep up with corporate taxes. I used to be an investment advisor. I can't keep up with the market and keep up with payroll. So how do you expect a businessman who's making widgets or repairing cars or baking cakes or whatever, to keep up with things that takes me full time to keep up with, right? So we, we, we tell our clients all the things that are going on, keep them up to speed and protect them. So when we go to file, uh, in January, they're 10 90 nines, we'll use a 10 99 NEC right. We've got it set up. We've got the format for, we can print it out on the right paper and envelopes and so on. They don't have to think about it. We also know where to send it. We know when to send it. The, the, the deadlines changed last year used to be your head until the end of March to send electronic W2's. Well, last year it became January 31. If you were still working on the old rules, you were late and there were penalties.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (07:51):

Yeah. And, um, you know, I'm like an old dairy cow. I just like go to the barn, you know, same path to the barn. And I walk into the, you know, the office supply and just pick up the, the 10 99, uh, MIS like I have every year before. So I'm that guy that you're speaking to now, for sure.

Charles (08:09):

No, I'm not. And look, a lot of my clients are that they're busy people. They've got businesses to run. Right. They're entrepreneurs, they're small businesses. These people, you know, you, you know it. Yeah. It was 70 hour work week. Oh God. That's an easy week. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I only 70 hours this week. Wow. I had time to eat a couple of medication times my clients don't have time as business people don't have time to keep up with these ancillary things. That's why you outsource, I mean, look, you can make your own paper. Do you know anybody that does exactly. Okay. I mean, you could make your own ink. You can, you can, um, build, you can build computers. I don't, I call Dell. Yeah. Okay. They, they deliver the next day or two. So, you know, outsourcing payroll like outsourcing tax prep, outsourcing a lot of things just make sense.

Charles (09:09):

In this day and age, we're not living on the frontier where we have to do everything right. Make our own clothes, cure our own food, shoot our own game, plow our own land, build our own houses. We don't do that anymore. Uh, doing payroll yourself. My father used to do payroll on hand, on hand, created maybe a graft, remember mimeograph machines, mimeograph sheets of paper. And after I became a CPA, I finally got him to start doing some of these things more electronically and very late in life, uh, actually got them onto a computer to do it. Yeah. But yeah, I remember those days. So, um, and it's just, it's just silly for the pitons to outsource payroll to, to do it and you can't keep up on it. You cannot keep up on it. That's our specialty is compliance.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (09:59):

Yeah. And I, you know, the other thing just to reiterate is it it's, um, the, sometimes these are deadly mistakes and you know, I I've read, we had a couple of businesses that around here close that got into trouble with payroll and it put them out of business. So I mean, it's, it's not a lot of times, it's not something that you can recover from, but anyway, uh, so let's talk about some things, uh, have you kind of got, besides the 10 99, have you got some other things that, you know, for sure are going to be changing, uh, early in 2021?

Charles (10:34):

Well, unemployment rates are going to go up. I've seen a lot of them. Uh, some of them are getting delayed here in Texas. They're delaying it until February to announce it, but, um, I've seen base rates go up as much as 500%, uh, minimum, minimum payments. Um, New Hampshire minimum payment went up 500%, uh, for, uh, 20, 21 over 2020. And this as the unemployment rate stays up, this is going to happen everywhere. Every everybody's basically going up, both in, in rates and in limits on top of that, starting in 2022, at least 22 States and probably more we'll hit the food, uh, uh, credit reduction, which means that your food attacks is going to go up. Uh, normally you get a substantial, uh, deduction against the regular food or rate. Well, it's going to go down. It goes down by two-tenths of a percent every year that your state still owes money that they borrowed for their state unemployment fund.

Charles (11:34):

So that's going to happen. Uh, the taxpayer first act is being worked by the IRS and going into place. Uh, the appeals, um, section is going to change some, um, they're trying to become based on, uh, congressional intent, you know, a kind word gentler IRS. Well, we tried this about 10 years ago and it didn't work either at so don't, don't expect to kind of, or gentler IRS. It's not going to happen. Right. Uh, the IRS is making a major push again in, uh, uh, technology. So expect disruptions there because the last time they did that, they spent $3 billion in gave up. Wow. Uh, but some of their technology runs back to the 1960s and it's past end of life. Uh, nobody is maintaining it except the IRS. And so they've got to do some things to bring that up to speed. 40% of the IRS people will be eligible for retirement in the next two years and retire, but eligible.

Charles (12:39):

So they're, and they don't have the funds to hire and train the people they need to. So service there is going to get worse and more ignorant, right? Um, this just going to happen, the States are not in much better shape. Uh, right now you have all the state bureaucrats at home getting full pay and working half-time on their phone. Uh, if you can get ahold of them, right. Um, I don't see that getting better until mid next year. Um, and then they'll come back and, and have to retrain most of them. Um, and they're not going to be, this was something that came up in a, um, webinar or the other day or a blog. A lot of these people have now found that they could work effectively from home. And, um, micromanagers are going to be really, really hard pressed to manage these people.

Charles (13:34):

Who've been working from home for months or a year, right? Uh, Hey Joe, I I've been doing this stuff from home. You don't need to tell me what to do. You know, you haven't, you haven't looked over my shoulder for a year, quit doing it now. Right. It's going to be a major change. Uh, then there's going to be a lot of changes in the economy. People are used to work at their home. Uh, I just heard on NPR the other day, the major, uh, real estate investment this last year in 2020 was in warehouses, not an office space for the first time in decades, right? Because we're all on the West, shopping on the web. We don't, we don't go to brick and mortar. All that's changed in life. Life life's changing. Payroll is changing. Um, there'll be other tax law changes. Of course, the progressive wing of the democratic party has promised all kinds of things.

Charles (14:21):

Minimum wage is changing everywhere. Every place that's allowed to change. The minimum wage is changing it in Texas. Dallas tried to change it. And the state said, no, it's a state minimum wage. You don't get to mandate it. And that would have been disastrous because what happens if you have a company and you have people that work part-time in Dallas and part-time in Mesquite or in Frisco, she got to pay him different minimum wage when they're in Dallas, wow. I've never heard a day, you know, come on. It gets, it gets insane. Now, um, you know, the minimum wage, when in Seattle, when it crossed the city line, the restaurants pay seven or $8 less an hour than there are people. She think their prices are cheaper. Of course they are. So, you know, the, the dislocations is causes. Uh, I wouldn't be surprised to see a $15 minimum wage come in.

Charles (15:16):

Uh, and your McDonald's meal. Um, mine at burger King is $5, four 95. I get the double bacon cheeseburger and the value fry. Okay. That's going to go from four 95 to nine 95. Yeah. That's, that's how, and this thing that people don't realize, 75% of all federal revenue, the new comes through payroll. Okay. 75% goes through the payroll department. Okay. Cause it's all the withholding and all the employment taxes, all the social security, all the Medicare, it all flows through payroll. Yeah. 75% of it. So if you want to affect tax revenues, screw with payroll. Yeah. Politicians are going to do it. Yeah. This is going to be a very interesting year. Uh, we still have a democratic house, um, who knows what's going to happen with the Senate. Uh, if that goes democratic, a lot of the progressive agenda will go through and that'll be a lot of tax changes and a lot of roll back of, of the, uh, 17 tax change.

Charles (16:23):

Talk, talk about regulation, the regulations on the 2017, the December 17 tax cut and jobs act final regulations. Aren't written yet. They're still being written three years later. Yeah. And it's going to be another year or two before they're all finalized. And if we go and change it back or rechange it again, next year, the IRS doesn't write regulations overnight. It takes time. And it takes experience because anything Congress does that increases taxes. There's tens of thousands of people like me out here trying to figure a way around it. Yeah. Okay. And when we find it, we implement it and the IRS then has to write regulations to eliminate that loophole. Then we find another one, they write regulations. We find another one who finds. And it goes on for years to try and get congressional intent because congressional laws are, are very poorly written for implementation their ideas, their concepts, their guidelines. They're not hard and fast regulations for 330 million people. Right. And 5 million, six, eight, 10 million businesses, you know, they can't write them for that. That's the IRS has job Treasury's job. And it's a bear. Let me tell you. Wow. Yeah. I didn't even, I can't even believe that they're still

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (17:50):

Trying to write the 2017. Unbelievable. Yup. So does that, um, since such a big portion of the federal income is from the payroll tax Dee, do you anticipate the, an increase in that to try to make up for some of this, uh, spending that they've had to do during COVID? Or do you think that they'll just pay it off over the years or?

Charles (18:18):

Well, they're, they're, they're going to have to do both, but you know, the, the idea we'll, let's tax the rich, uh, case. It doesn't work. There's not enough rich out there that make enough money. You can steal everything from them and it's not going to make that big of an impact. Right. Literally you can, you can take the top, you know, 10,000 richest people in the country and seize their wealth. And it's only their wealth, not their income, but their wealth. Okay. Visa's a hundred million, a hundred billion dollars. You know, you take all of that. It's only one to go to run the company for a couple of months. The country. Yeah. Okay. It's just not that much money. It has to come from us. The middle class, the people that work for a living, the people have small businesses, people that work in them, you can't the poor people.

Charles (19:03):

They're not paying taxes. Okay. And that's progressive tax system. You know, whether you want to talk about Romney's 47% or whatever, I don't care. But the middle class is where it's going to have to come from, because that's where the vast majority of income is. Yeah. It's, you know, there's a few people at the very top to make. I've seen some amounts of money. I wish I was there. Okay. Don't we all, but there's not enough taxes there to make a real difference. It's all, that's a political nonsense. It has to be middle-class you can't say, well, we're only going to raise taxes on those that make $400,000 or more. You can take everything they make. It's still not enough to, to, to make a budget shortfall. So what are you going to do? Lower the 200 Laura to a hundred lowered to 50. Yeah. That's, what's going to happen. Everybody's taxes are going to go up. If they're going to pay down on the debt. And of course this year, we've just boom, the debt. I mean, the w when you talk, uh, uh, a $3, $3 trillion stimulus package, you know, that's $10,000 for every man, woman and child in the country that has to be paid back sometime. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (20:16):

Yeah. And I don't think we're stopped. I don't think we're through with that. And it's just going to continue. It's got to for a little bit longer anyway, so that kind of brings up a good point, uh, thinking about these, uh, maybe people that have lost their job or have gotten cut back so far that they've decided to step out on their own. Uh, you know, maybe you can just kind of speak just to, um, a little bit about the difference between working for a company and having these things deducted versus working for, and trying to make your estimated payments when necessary.

Charles (20:52):

I refer to him as accidental entrepreneurs, right? Uh, they, they, they're out of a job. They're out of a company. Uh, they gotta make a living. They've got to put food on the table, but you know, they got a wife to take care of her kids or themselves. So they're going to find a way to make money. They're going to do it. We're getting a lot of new entrepreneurs in the door to help them with payroll. Okay. Because if you form a corporation or an LLC that files the corporation, you're an employee and you have to have W2 compensation. You don't have a choice. Okay. Uh, and if you hire somebody, you'll hire a girl and you're a lawyer, you hire a, a lady in the office. You gotta, you gotta pay her. You can't just pay her under the table. Right. It's illegal. Uh, you know, uh, it works until you her off and she goes down unemployment and files, and then the auditor comes out the week later and the penalties and interest add up in a hurry.

Charles (21:49):

So don't do that. Please. Don't do that. Call me. So we're seeing a lot of that. And yeah, uh, here's the, here's the problem in the IRS sees it. If you're a W2 where they withhold the money and give you a W2 and report it to the government, compliance is about 99%. If they report like a 10 99. Um, but don't withhold compliance falls to about 97%. But if you not, don't withhold the taxes and you don't report the income to the government as a sole proprietor or business owner compliance falls to 37%. Wow. That's why the government goes after it. That's where the tax gap is. The tax cap in the gig economy is huge. Right? Okay. That's why they put in the 10 99 K to force Uber and Lyft and people like that to report all the money they collect and distribute to their drivers and their gig workers.

Charles (22:52):

But there's so much gig economy out there. Whether it be the lawn guy, the window washer, the guy that comes pinks, the building, the guy that does your garage floor, uh, the mobile dog groomer, you name it, right. There's a million of those. And that just exacerbates the tax gap because these people should, in many cases, be on a W2 and, or file estimated taxes. And they don't because it's easy not to. Yeah. If you don't make that estimated tax deposit, the IRS is not going to call next week and say, you're past due, right? Your electric company will, your phone company will, your mortgage company will, but the IRS won't, they're not going to be in your face. Okay. You don't pay your car payment. 60 days later, the repo guy is coming to take the car. Right? Okay. You don't pay your tax deposit that may not catch up with you for several years, okay.

Charles (23:56):

Or longer. But when it does, it's going to be massive. It's going to be the deposit. It's going to be the penalties. It's going to be the interest and the IRS could take your car, take your house, take your income. Literally take the clothes off your back. Right. I had, I had one agent collection agent. I was in the next cubicle with a client and he was telling the guy, uh, well, you've got a gold tooth go down and have that tooth taken out and pawn the gold watch people. I'm like, this is true. This happened. And I'm sitting there. My client's looking at me going. I mean, it was insane, but that's, you know, when you get down to collections to the IRS they're collection agents, right. And you don't want to get into collections. Yeah. Believe me, because they don't care. Whether you all or not, all they're interested in, in collections is collecting the money. Yeah. That's all they're interested in. If you can say, well, I don't know this. See the, I don't know this. And the collection guy goes, I don't care. Write me a check. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (25:08):

Yeah. And it's so important.

Charles (25:09):

And out of examine out of appeals,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (25:12):

Right? Yeah. It's so important. And you know, when I came off a W2 and went to, you know, estimating my own, you know, it's, it's the best, the best thing to do is to take a little bit out every time you collect money coming in, just set it aside and have it there because I will guarantee you that it will be such a snowball effect that, you know, if you missed one, two, then all of a sudden you're trying to catch up at the end of the year. I mean, it's from my understanding. Most people just cannot overcome that, or right. And if you, the other thing I've heard is that it's best. If you do get into a little bit of a scrape, just address it, take your lumps and move on because it's not going to get any better. It's just going to be the, uh, taxes, interest, penalties, everything just keeps compiling. And then, you know, you'll just have a big old, uh, a bigger debt or payment to make. But anyway, we won't, we won't get too far off track on that, but I just, you know, a lot of people are, are making that transition. And I think it's important that you do. There is a reckoning for money that you do bring in the door on your own. You do have to address that in some respect,

Charles (26:30):

I'm only going to make one caveat. Don't set aside a little set aside. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. You're, uh, you're about 30% of what you take in. You need to set aside me more. Yeah. Yeah. So don't, it's not $5.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (26:46):

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. I just,

Charles (26:50):

And, and, and, and have a CPA, right? That a tax advisor, you can sit down with at least once a year and he can tell you how much you need to put away right now, if you miss one, that's fine. You know, you'll, you'll get by with one or two you're. Right. Exactly. Right. But if you do it on a regular basis to make a habit of it, it's going to solve it. And if you do get in trouble in the beginning, the IRS, you can they'll work with you. These are nice people for the most part, stay out of collections, but the exam and so on, you can set up installment agreements. You can do all kinds of things, right. Uh, just be reasonable with them. Talk to them, treat them like they're human beams and not some government machine don't swear at them.

Charles (27:33):

Don't scream at them. You know, I amazed my staff. I'll be sitting and talking with them on appeals officer in New York, and she's close to my age and we'll spend 20 minutes talking about grandkids. Yeah. Okay. And then when we're done and we need to come to this situation and she has choices, she can say, yeah, that's reasonable. Let's go ahead and abate it. Whereas she can say, write me a check. Right. If you've been nice to her, she's far more likely to say, yeah, let's just debate it. Yeah. Okay. Cause that's her decision. Yeah. So why do you want to off somebody? Who can do you a favor?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (28:18):

Exactly. Exactly. So let's talk a little bit about the book. So what, um, what guidance or what is, what have you put in the payroll book?

Charles (28:28):

There you go. There you go. The payroll book, a guide for small businesses and startups. It's exactly what it's for. It's it's 30 years of experience is still down to 85,000 words. Okay. Um, I, it starts out with what the various entities are and you know, what the tax effects of having those entities are, it goes into, what's an employee, what's a, non-employed, what's an independent contract, or what's not what are earnings, how you record them, deductions taxes, tax penalties, all the tax laws and, and various other payroll related laws, uh, how to run a payroll, uh, how to calculate it and get it out. I'm doing exactly, uh, record keeping all the records are required to keep for all the different federal agencies and state agencies. Workers' comp security, internal controls, illegal aliens, and other miscellaneous issues, including this cheat and PEOs and so on.

Charles (29:27):

Uh, it's you know, it's not something you're going to sit down and read and a couple evenings. It's a good thing to have on your bookshelf because when a question comes up, if you're not using me or somebody like me, uh, then that's a wonderful reference book. The nearest thing to that, you know, I'm in the industry. So I look at them is the source, the payroll source it's available from the APA for a $595. Wow. This is a list price on it is a 29 95. I think. Uh, Amazon has it on for like 23 and a quarter at the moment. Um, it's a really nice parallel reference book.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (30:07):

Yeah. That's awesome. So, you know, what can a company like get payroll? Um, S one number one. What can you do for employers? Of course. And then also, how do you differentiate yourself from some of the, uh, bigger players that are out there in the field?

Charles (30:27):

Thank you. Thank you for that question. Yeah. All of the payroll companies, for the most part, do a reasonably good job of creating paychecks or direct deposits. Okay. And most of them do a reasonably good job of depositing taxes and filling out forms for you. Prices vary in amount of services vary, but where the real problem comes in is compliance. When you make a mistake or the IRS makes a mistake and believe me, the IRS makes millions of mistakes. Every year, you got a hundred thousand people and technology going back to the 1960s, but stakes are going to happen, right? What do you do? We're compliance experts. I'm a CPA for every client. We take eight, 28, 48 limited power of attorney that allows us to advocate directly with the internal revenue service and the various States and the various other agencies. We can represent the client ourselves.

Charles (31:29):

We can go to them and talk to them and make deals and make arrangements. And so the IRS then has a professional that knows as much, and in many cases more than they know, because I know the law, I know the regulations, I know the IRS manuals. I know what they're allowed to do. I know what they're not allowed to do the analogy I use for the poor businessman. And I've been there is if you take the greatest Brazilian soccer player, you can think of in my day and age, it was Paylite tremendous athlete, wonderful soccer player. And you stick them in a New York Yankees uniform, and you put them in Yankee stadium and you say, play second base.

Charles (32:14):

He doesn't know the rules. He doesn't know the equipment. He doesn't know anything. He's still a great athlete, but he's out of his ballpark. Right? Okay. And he can't, you know, he'll learn, but at what cost. So we do this for a living. This is what we do. We're compliance experts. That's why I have, I'm a us tax court practitioner. If the IRS too off base with it for $60, I file a petition with the U S tax court, which stops. Everything gets kicked back to docket it appeals. And I get a knowledgeable, uh, district council to sit down and discuss the situation with not some collection agent, not some ignorant examiner, not some lowlife or excuse me, low-level clerk, not like this, but low-level clerk. I'm talking with a, an experienced professional that has many years of experience in this and understands as much as I do.

Charles (33:15):

And we can come to an agreement. But if you don't have that, and I don't know of any other payroll company that does this, if you don't have that, what do you do? You're on your own. Yeah. We're insurance. We're payroll insurance. You insure your car, your insure, your house, your insure, your life, hopefully your car doesn't get in a wreck and your house doesn't burn down and you live a long life. Right? What if something happens? That's what you have insurance for. Well, when a mistake happens with your payroll, we solve it. Right. Once one thing I do want to make this point, the IRS cannot penalize you for a simple mistake. That's illegal. Okay. They can only penalize you for gross negligence, but guess who makes that determination up front? They do. You don't exactly. They're going to determine gross negligence. So you have to be able to show them legally, ethically by the rules, by the regulations, by the court cases, that this is a simple mistake or it's their mistake.

Charles (34:19):

And if you do that, that all goes away. But if you don't know how to do that, you'll never be able to do it. I'm sorry. Yeah. I've spent 30 years learning. I learn more every day. This is why I'm on earth SAC. It's I I've met with all the, the I've met with the commissioner of the IRS. I've had lunch with them a couple of times in DC. Uh, he, he said the employee cafeteria, I've met all the commissioners for the various sections of the IRS and their deputies and key people throughout. All right. So if I need to, I can call the chief of appeals and get some help. Do you even know his name? Uh, Sharon who's head OPR is a friend of mine. Okay. Office of professional responsibility. These are the things we can do that most of our competitors can because we concentrated on compliance, not just massive amounts of clients that were running through, you know, just to run them through. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (35:16):

Right. And it makes a big difference to have somebody that, you know, if you do get into a little scrape to have somebody to be able to walk through the doors with you and to represent you and be there. So, uh, well, let me ask you this when yeah. So if, uh, w what if somebody that has not been your client, if there's somebody out there that is going through some troubles, uh, can you help them, or do you, do they really, do you really need to be involved or prior? So, okay. So if you've,

Charles (35:52):

I prefer, I prefer to work with my clients that have been there, because we know what's going on. We have all the records and everything else. Right. But if, if one of your listeners has a problem, call me if I can answer the question off the cuff, if it's free, I'll just do it. I like helping people. If it's going to be more involved, we'll talk about it. We'll quote a fee and we'll, we'll go after it. Um, the earlier in the, in the process, you do it the better, right? The later it gets, the more things become irreversible, right. There are some deadlines and some drop dead dates that are in the regulations. And the courts say, if you don't do it by this date, Sol yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just out of luck. And that's just the way that Oh, but your, your honor, I don't know this. They say, well, yeah, but you had to do it by this date. That's the law. Yeah. And sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing, just to talk to your Congressman.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (36:46):

Yeah. The other thing just to make clear as well is that if, if it's somebody that you are already working with, you're already in their business, you know, what's going on. If somebody that's in trouble comes to you, you are going to have to do some digging through to see what has happened in the past. So it's not just always as simple as I'm in trouble, help me let's move forward. I mean, there, there, it depends on how complicated things are, but there is going to be some due diligence that would have to go along with that.

Charles (37:14):

Absolutely. Yeah. And, and, and there are, as I was saying, some problems, if you delay too long, that are insolvable. Right, right. They're just, you just have to chalk it up and as for experience and no next time not to let the deadline lapse. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (37:31):

All right, Charles. Well, thanks so much for, uh, this has been great information. We appreciate it. And, uh, probably at the end of first quarter, next year, or if, if you, if some big things come along, please feel free to reach back out, but we'll get you back on and, you know, kind of keep the listeners updated as we go. So, um, before I let you go, though, what is a tool that you use in your daily life business, personal, it could be a tool. It could be a habit, something that you do every day that you don't think that you could do without.

Charles (38:04):

Well, it goes back to, uh, and this is how we do business. And it goes back to an old saying, there's never a traffic jam on the extra mile. Right. We always try to go the extra mile for our clients and they appreciate it. Um, because that's who we are. That's my staff. It comes from the top. It permeates the organization. We bend over backwards for our clients. We believe in customer service. That's, that's, that's how I was raised. My father had his own business. I was raised in a, in a small business. I entered, I grew up in an, I did not understand it when I was started, but, you know, you learn over time. Right. And so you'd take care of your customers cause that's, who's paying you. Exactly.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (38:48):

Exactly. All right. That's good to know. So tell everybody how they can reach out, either get ahold of you or, uh, get, get payroll and get them started work. Get you started working for them.

Charles (39:01):

Sure. Well, obviously, as you can see from the backdrop get payroll, so it's getpayroll.com. Uh, we're all over there. Uh, the book's available on Amazon Barnes and noble is other fine bookstores or at thepayrollbook.com. Uh, my email [email protected] email me there. And if it's something that you ain't got to talk to somebody (972) 353-0000. All right. That's the phone number.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Paying Your Employees Correctly Is Important, Don’t Let Payroll Become Your Downfall  (39:30):

Put all the contact information and the book in the show notes as well for all of our listeners. You bet, Charles. Thanks a lot. Appreciate you taking time again. All right. That's going to do it for this episode of the business of business podcast. You can find us at, of course, www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com. We are also on, uh, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and we will post the recorded session on YouTube as well. We're on all the major platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not on one that you use, please reach out. I'll be glad to get us added until next time. Take care of each other.

www.getpayroll.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

     

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Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. This is Roy glad you could join us. You know, we are a podcast that we try to bring, um, all disciplines of business to try to help you out in your struggles or try to help you be more successful every day. Uh, today we are fortunate enough to have Heather Deveaux and she is with Heather devote instructional design. And we're going to talk about online classes, online training. We're going to talk about how to, you know, just set up a good online, uh, presentation and kind of how we would run that process. So Heather, thank you so much for being with us and taking time out of your day.

Heather (00:00:46):

Thanks for, I am excited to be here. It's good to see you

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:00:49):

To see you as well. Heather is an old friend of the show. It's been a, it's been a couple of years, so we're glad to have her back. And you know, this is a very timely topic, uh, especially with the, uh, you know, still in the midst of the pandemic, but, uh, we were talking pre-show about that. You know, this is probably something that's not going to come to an end. Uh, anytime soon, even if the pandemic were to get under control, I think, uh, working remotely, um, reaching our audiences remotely, uh, people getting used to, instead of going to a yoga studio, you know, nowadays they're doing online. So I think we're gonna, I think we're going to see this continued through time, so it's great to be here, but, um, you know, what are some things that we need to consider? You know, just like myself. Okay. I, you know, I woke up this morning and thought, Hey, I'm thinking about doing some instructional stuff over, um, putting it out there. So what would be some things that a business person would need to consider about developing the content?

Heather (00:01:51):

Yeah, that's a great question, Roy. I think really, you know, the idea that people are just trying to put band-aids on things right now, we have to sort of let go of that thought, right? That frame of mind at anything you're creating right now is it shouldn't be a quick fix, you know, like there's there shouldn't, you shouldn't be out there looking for things that are just going to sort of plug the holes to get you over the hump. Um, because I think to your point, um, and I know that this is a narrative that a lot of people are talking about right now. I think when you're making that sort of jump from where you were nine months ago, and a lot of businesses are still trying to figure that out to where you're going to be now, or even in 2021, you know, the, the hope everyone keeps talking about, like, we want to go back to normal.

Heather (00:02:35):

Um, but to me, it's as an instructional designer and someone who helps people create online courses, it doesn't make any sense that you would invest all that time, invest all that money really. Cause it always comes down to the mighty dollar. You would invest all that time and money and then want to go back from that. Right? And I think one of the very first things you have to realize when you go down this road, number one is it's not a temporary fix. You're simply moving your business in a different direction. Um, and number two, that what you've done so far is not for not, you've not lost that momentum, you know, things have certainly slowed for a lot of people, but there are ways that you can take what you already have and turn it into something completely different without it costing a lot of money without taking a lot of time.

Heather (00:03:22):

And without it being something that's just for now. And so I think, you know, my advice right off right at the top of the hour would be that when you approach these things, don't approach them from a temporary mindset because you're going to get so much value your customers and your audience is going to get so much value from this that you're going to number one, wonder why you weren't doing it all along. And then number two, how do you maintain that? Like, you'll be looking to the future of how can I do more of these kinds of things, because you know, it used to be that if you were online, that that was, you were standing out, right? Cause there was a time when being online meant, that's how you reach more people right now, everyone's online. So now it becomes about, well, what are you pushing, right? What is the thing you're actually talking about? And how do you stand out online doing that? And I think anyone with a frame of mind that they're going to go back to normal where that this is just for now is going to end up, you know, they're going to end up holding, holding nothing because everyone else is going to keep moving forward without them. So I think that frame of mind definitely has to be forward-thinking and this is permanent.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:04:25):

Yeah. Before we actually get into the mechanics, I think you bring up a lot of good points that probably are worth discussing now. Number one, uh, I do agree that this shouldn't be a band-aid, this is really a long-term, uh, play that we need to take that attitude and that approach. And not only for the pandemic, but you know, a couple things come to mind as, as you were talking as well, number one, um, we can meet people where they are when they're ready, because, um, you know, if, if you have, um, some kind of a business, it doesn't matter what maybe I can't get there from eight to five or your hours. And so, um, this is going to provide access some sort of access to people, um, 24 hours a day, seven days a week without you having to be there to help them. And then the other thing that kind of came to mind is, uh, this may be a sampling to actually lure people into your bricks and mortar or to pick up the phone and give you a call and they may can go on here and check this out and say, yeah, I liked this. I liked the flow or it's what I'm looking for. So I think there's a lot of great, great reasons to really consider this.

Heather (00:05:39):

Yeah. I mean, certainly one of the things that I talk about in, in when I'm posting on social media or when I'm having conversations with potential clients is what you could do with this kind of technology. Right? And the technology is not new. We've been doing online learning for a long time. And it's funny, you know, because I follow some groups, different hashtags online about adult education. And that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about high school education. Those are different kinds of professionals that God love them. Um, you know, when we're talking about adults who freely come to learn and they're looking to businesses to help them learn, um, and you know, I work with entrepreneurs, so I'm talking about business, right? We're talking about the business of business here and B to B, what does that look like? Um, and, and you know, when you're, you're looking at this stuff and you're thinking about that, it, you know, one of the things that you want to consider is, is that certainly, yeah, you have to meet people where they are, but also when I'm talking to potential clients, it's about back delivery.

Heather (00:06:37):

That delivery matters now more than ever, right? It can't just be you posting on social media all the time. And I used to do this. I used to be a content marketer. You know, that Roy, we worked together for a long time. Right, right. So I used to do this for a living and it always came down to it's about so much more than what you're posting, right? The post is just it's. I call it the head of the beast now, because it's the thing that starts to funnel everybody. You need a sales funnel, whether you want it or not. Um, but you, you need something like that. And you know, there's good ways to do that. And there's bad ways to do that. But when we're talking about this sort of head of the beast of the social media posts that draws people in your online course, whether that is a free course or a paid course, and there's lots of different ways to use both.

Heather (00:07:18):

But one of the things I talk with potential customers about is for product based companies, having a free online course that is either a supplement or it is an instructional manual, or it's a, how to get the most out of your dollar. That's spent course is worth so much in the end because a product can only go so far as a client can see its use for it. But if you have an educational component to that, and you're showing your client 10 different ways to use this product, or 10 different ways to get value from that product, then all of a sudden, and you packages really nice together too. Right? So I buy the product. Maybe it makes my hair really shiny, but you're going to show me 10 other ways to use that product so that it, I can use it to, uh, you know, like maybe I can use some of it on my skin or I'm thinking of a product there's a bubble bath product on the market.

Heather (00:08:09):

I can't remember who makes it, but people use it to like clean their ovens. So like, if you don't tell me, I can do that. Yeah. Like you don't tell me, I could do that. I don't know that I can do that. And so my brain, the way my brain works is when people are talking to me about their businesses, whether they have an online course or whether they even intend to create one, I'm always thinking like, Oh my God, that would make a great course. Because if you have to say something more than once in your business, it should be either at a frequently asked questions document, or it should be in an online course that you're giving away for free to engage people. Right. You know, so, you know, I, I appreciate that because there, there are lots of ways you could be using this stuff to build audience, to build capacity in your audience.

Heather (00:08:53):

But it's also like if we're going back to the marketing sort of shtick, it's like, that is what marketing is, it's education. Right. And one of the best ways to stand out right now is to give, give, give, you know, we hear the old adage of like, you've got to just give everything. You've got to be able to get the attention of your customers. But if you're just giving it away on social media, it's just more noise. You know? It is like, everything is so noisy. No. But if you're drawing the men with, you know, that sort of head of the beast, social posts, like, look, I've got something here that is going to transform a part of your life or a part of your business, and yes, it's free. And we can talk about the difference between free and paid and mentally what that looks like.

Heather (00:09:34):

But if, even if it's free, if I'm actually teaching you something and I'm not just using it to get your email, which is important, then you've heard my trust, right. When I'm scrolling through Instagram and I'm looking at you and you're just one more face and you're one more post, I have no reason to trust you. Sure. I follow you, but I've got no reason to trust you. Right. But if you teach me something, I will never forget you. Right. And so I think that we look at that and we think giving away means, well, I've got to be on Instagram or Facebook or, or whatever, all the time I've gotta be giving, giving, giving. Um, but the, the method or the sort of vehicle in which you give can actually have a huge impact on that giving and then ultimately on that transformation, which then leads to the trust. We're all dying to get from our customers.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:10:21):

Yeah. And I think you make a good point that, you know, 10 years ago, if we had a social media account on any platform, you kind of stood out and, uh, your messaging was easier, but there is so much noise out there now, not only in our business space, but with just individuals that are on there competing for the same real estate. And then with the algorithms, you know, if, if you post something right, this moment, if somebody is not right, they're viewing it, that you're very closely connected to, then it's just going to be out there. And, uh, the chances go way down of anybody ever seen it. And the other thing you make a kind of made a point that made me think about something that happened yesterday is, um, a friend of mine has, I think she's nine or 10 years old.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:11:07):

And so they, they gave me this, um, a little sample size and it was called sugar scrub. And of course I'm a dude, so I kind of laughed. And I thought, I thought it was a joke or something, you know, I thought they were gonna make me eat it or something like that. And they're like, no, no, no, you really put the stuff on. And it exfoliates and all this stuff. And, um, so I guess the other thing that we could use, these is a newer product that like, you know, I'm sure that women, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about, but if this was a newer product that nobody really knew, this would be an awesome in a duck introductory to say, what is this new thing? And how do you use it? What are the benefits of it? So, you know, kind of use it as a mini commercial or advertising. Yep.

Heather (00:11:54):

Exactly. It is. It is. And that's what it is. Right. And when you have a container like that for, for free versus paid, right? Like when you're talking about free giving away, free courses online, the shorter it is. And the more to the point it is the more effective it's going to be because here's what happens with online courses that are free. And even some paid ones, the statistics on paid courses, and I make a living selling this stuff, but the statistics on them are very, very low. And one of the reasons why I get into this work was to make sure that the bar was raised for people creating online courses. I think there's a huge problem right now with overselling and under-delivering in the course creation world. So when you're talking about creating a free online course, it's really important. You know, you pick three or four things, you give it to them straight, you actually teach them something from it.

Heather (00:12:45):

You don't just use it as a, the thing I hate, I'm just going to be really Frank. The thing I hate is when people say, come and take my four step system to learn how to do something right now, what I point out to people all the time is this is marketing. This is genius marketing because I get your email, but I don't actually give you anything in exchange for that. What I do is I stand there and I tell you the names of those four steps. I'll tell you how to do them. Right? You got to pay me as a first grader, learn how to do them. And I hate that approach. I hate it. Yeah. So what I do is I constantly talk about the steps that I'm offering and I break them down in all kinds of different places, right? If you did your homework, you could go and find everything I'm talking about.

Heather (00:13:27):

But the reason that you have a course to sell is number one, people want accountability. Number two, they want systems. And number three, they want speed. Right? And when it comes to systems and speed, going to Google, going to parse my podcasts, going to look at my YouTube jail, going to read my Instagram posts. It's all there, but you've got to have the time and the interest to put it all together or you can buy my program. Right? And so the thing that I always try to do is to not just give a little, but I give it all. But it's the way in which you give it, that that one piece of information is enough to move somebody forward in some way, you know? So it's not that teaser like a hate teaser stuff. And you know, I'm a business owner. I've tried it all myself.

Heather (00:14:12):

I've done all this stuff myself. So I know what works and I know what doesn't work and what doesn't work is telling someone, you're going to give them a free course where there's four ways to improve something. But then I teach you nothing about an actual improvement or just give you the pleaser. So I think it's really important, um, as a course creator, or as if people are thinking about creating courses, you know, really leading with the, the sense that they're raising the bar themselves for what they're going to teach, because, you know, if you're talking, you know, you see webinars, right? Like people are doing these webinars and these webinars are ahead of, there are part of that head of the beast. They're the way to get you into their sales funnel. And they're not courses that is not an online course, but a lot of people think it is.

Heather (00:14:58):

And it's very different. And a webinar is a sales strategy. It's a marketing tactic, right? What an online course is a tool that transforms it's learner. And so I think when we talk about these things, there's a lot of overlap. There's a lot of confusion. Um, and I'm working really hard right now, so that people see the difference. Number one, number two, they can raise the bar for themselves so that they become business owners who actually deliver on what they said they'd deliver on. Right. And number three, that they can do it with accountability, with systems and speed. Because if you can create something like that, that means that your students, your customers can get that information that much faster. And you know what that creates trust. Right? You do those three things for people and they go, Oh yeah, okay. Maybe I'll buy from them.

Heather (00:15:47):

Right. So it's, it's not anything new. I want to be really clear about that. Like, this is not reinventing the wheel. This stuff has been around a long time, but I think what's happened is it's almost been abused. You know, we've, we've discovered the short course called it a webinar and are now using it to peddle our wares in a way that leaves people going. It's just a sales pitch and that leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. And so if you're giving away a course, you exchange it for an email. Yes, you do that. But you give away what you said. You were going to give away. You're not giving a sales pitch, you're giving away something. That's going to help people to actually learn. And that's a big pet peeve of mine. It's really getting my goat right now because everybody's online trying to get online, even deeper, you know?

Heather (00:16:31):

And so I popped up with this, this system in this program that I'm promoting three months ago, and now I'm really seeing this everywhere, this other way of doing it. Um, and it's interesting cause I've been doing this for 20 years. I've been doing online courses since 2008 and that's longer than Facebook's been around almost, you know? So it it's, it's, it's really transformed over the last few years from a course is no longer a product. You know, unfortunately when people think of online courses, they think of it as part of the sales funnel and they're calling it webinars and that is not what this is. Right. It's totally different. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:17:09):

Yeah. And I'm like you, and I see that a lot, like, you know, learn my four things you click over and then immediately it's, you know, give me your email and I've done it in the past. And then like you said, it's really just, well, the four things are one, two, three, four. Here's my course, if you'll sign for it and it, you know, to me, it's immediate distrust. And I think that's an important part is that, um, you know, P you don't, you only get one time to make a first impression. And if that's the first impression, people are going to steer clear of you, because they're going to think it's just another set up. So,

Heather (00:17:44):

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I, um, I joined a program this year, um, to grow my business before I went in this direction with it. And it's funny because they were talking about scaling your business, which is real hot buzzword right now. Like, you know, like what are we scaling to? I don't know, I'm just getting lost in the buzzwords. But anyway, I signed up for this course. It was very expensive. And when I get in there, I realized they were teaching people how to do automated sales funnels, which sounds great, super sexy, but the logistics behind something like that, but it was a big scheme, right? It was, it was like, this course costs more than my first car. And I had a really nice first car. And this whole thing was that you could set up your business so that you never have to work at it.

Heather (00:18:30):

Right. And I went, okay, all right, I'll give it a try. So I tried it and I ended up working more to just to maintain that funnel. Then I did, when I went back to just genuine sales calls, like, yeah, if you're going to book a call with me, I'm going to talk to you about my program. But by the time you get to the part where you're actually having a call with me, you know, that you're going to buy for me because that's the point of the call, right? There's no pulling the wool over anybody's eyes. We're not, you know, I'm not trying to bait and switch anybody. If you've looked at everything that I'm doing at this point, you're ready to talk to me about what the next steps are. And so what I found really interesting about this program was that number one, they weren't selling what they said they were selling.

Heather (00:19:09):

And that sort of started me on this journey of like, wait, now there's a huge gap here where people are talking about online courses as a way to scale your business, but nobody's actually teaching you how to build that online course. Right. So that was the first thing. The second thing was that the marketing piece is getting more attention than what's actually in that course. You know? So if you spend all your time trying to fill your cold funnel with warm leads, when do you have time to deliver what you said you were going to deliver, right? And because we're so focused right now on, you gotta be online, you gotta be seen, you gotta be big or go home. Um, I think we're really as entrepreneurs getting in this frame of mind where all of our time, energy and money should go into filling that funnel because it's a numbers game because we think we're competing against each other all the time for this limited attention span that humans have, what I'm arguing and what I'm seeing the results of is that when you build a course, that is as good as you think it is.

Heather (00:20:12):

There is no selling involved, right? And when you offer something that people really need, and what people really need is transformation of some kind, right. We want to have solutions to our problems when you're doing that. It becomes a no brainer for people to go. Yep. I'm going to buy that. I want that. Right. And I think the thing about online courses that we, you get a bad rap. If you run an online course, first of all, is that people automatically assume you're just trying not to work. Right. You're trying to do something that is scalable. And that is repeatable, you know, and lather, rinse, repeat doesn't mean you don't have to work. I don't know if you've done any laundry, Roy, but it's a lot of work to ladder, right? It's a lot of work. It's no, for people to assume that, Oh, you have an online course.

Heather (00:21:05):

It's because you're trying to scale. And you're trying not to work. These systems can be gold. Mines, miners work really hard. And so I'm trying to be really Frank with people about what you're getting into when you're, when you're making the change from a service-based business or even a product based business into the online space, because it's not a free for all. And you don't just get to hit play on that funnel and walk away from it. It's a lot of work. Right. But if you build it once it's done, right. And I think what people are getting hung up on and where I'm working really hard to help people is just that when you know what has to be done, you can get it done. Right? How many times in your life where I have you seen something and you're trying to figure out what the next step is, and you waste weeks and months trying to figure it out.

Heather (00:21:52):

But as soon as you know, you take a step. Right, right, right. So there's my cats, my cats coming to visit. And so, yeah. So I think right now, um, and I'm a life coach as well, but what I'm not doing right now is coaching people. I'm not saying, how are you doing today, Roy? Because how you're doing is almost irrelevant to getting this stiff, this stuff done. Because if you can get this done, how you're doing will improve that. Right. You're you're like, I know how you're doing. If you're coming to work with me, I know where you're at. I know how frustrated you are. I'm not going to life, coach the crap out of you to try to get you to feel better. You're going to feel better once we get this done. And I think what we need more than ever right now as entrepreneurs is we just need systems.

Heather (00:22:36):

We need accountability to ourselves and to each other to make, make sure our economy keeps going, right. We're all looking at the government to fix everything for us, but the government's not going to fix everything for us. Entrepreneurs show up when we fix things, that's literally what we do. Right? We are solution masters, right? And so I think this idea of accountability systems and speed is what we need more than ever, because the faster we can move, the faster we can figure out what's not working. And then the faster we can fix those problems. Right. And that's what I think online courses to do for people is it becomes a data hub, right? If you've got 10 or 15 people going through your online course, your only work around that is to show up and help them as they need it. And then to collect that data about, well, what didn't work, where did they need extra help? So it is man, like you have to show up and do it. Yeah. Um, but I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around who you are if you're offering this kind of thing and that you're trying to skirt around the work, but online course creators are some of the hardest workers I know because they're building an ecosystem, right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:23:38):

Yeah. I mean, you have to put in the work and that's, I think that's something to be Frank about with people is that this isn't going to be a few words on a couple of PowerPoint slides and you're done. Right. And so, and number two, I think that's where you come in as a benefit, not only setting up the structure, but also the, um, the content, because you're a writer, you know, we, I am not a rider. And so, um, you know, that's where we first met each other because I know I'm not a rider. So I seek help to like, um, those words that pull people in that engaged that keep them engaged. You know, we have to be sure and put it in, in a, and I guess, depending on our product, you know, a lot of times we, as business, people think we know exactly what people need.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:24:27):

So, um, I can only assume that we can build this class and then, um, our training, whatever we build we'll build it. But then if the users come back and have, if five people come back and ask you the same question that you didn't address, then we kind of have to tweak that. And then as, as we grow, as our products grow, as our services change and grow, you know, there's always room to update that, you know, updated as we go forward. It's not a same stress as building it for sure. But you know, it's not a, I don't think it's a set it and forget it. I think, you know, we have to be there to be in tune because people need something from us. Even if we have this course, that's not going to be the end of the line.

Heather (00:25:14):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's really important that people understand that it's yeah. It's not set it and forget it. Um, but yeah, I'd like to tell you a little bit about the system that I've created, because it will directly, it'll directly answer that question, um, that you're, you're sort of putting out there. Um, so you're absolutely right. That if somebody comes back to you and they've got a question and that keeps happening over and over again, then yeah. That is a ball. Quite frankly, that you've dropped. You've missed that piece of information. Now, what I see happen is new course creators. When that happens, they go, Oh, well, I guess I'm not cut out for this. And then all of a sudden, their course isn't available anymore and they run and hide and they have imposter syndrome. That's where the life coach and me lights up go, what are you doing?

Heather (00:25:58):

Get back here. Let's fix it. Right. Right. Um, and so what I did is first and foremost, I think it's really clear to, you have to be really clear about what the difference is between an instructional designer and a course creator. Okay. So I have a master's degree in adult education. I studied this for years in school, at the post-secondary level, I've been creating online courses since 2008. I've been creating courses. In-person workshops in college curriculum since 2000. So I've been doing this for 20 actual years. I'm an instructional designer. That is my subject matter expertise. Roy, for you, your subject matter expertise is in business. In marketing, in senior living in sales, you have a S you have a container of subject matter expertise, right? As a course creator, your only job is to take your subject matter expertise and plug the holes for your clients.

Heather (00:26:51):

Now, what holes are they? That's where I come in as an instructional designer, I help you see where are the gaps for your clients? I don't take your work and plug those holes. I take your expertise and put it into my framework and show you how to plug those holes for your customers. So that when you roll out your course, there are no questions. Right? And let me tell you how I do that, where you go to a marketing strategy. So with using a marketing strategy, what's the first rule of business, do your market research, right? Go and talk to your potential customers, right? This is true in instructional design. If I have no, I have no subject matter expertise in what your wanting to sell. I don't need it to be able to create a course for you. I go out to your market.

Heather (00:27:40):

I ask them what they need. You and I sit down together and I pulled from your brain. What is going to plug those holes for those people then? Because I know how to build a course. I put it into a format into a framework that teaches them part one, part two part three, until incrementally. They get to the transformation that they're looking for. Very, very simple, very simple framework. Why people get overwhelmed is because they think about how do I go from, this is what I have to teach to. Here's a fully finished functional online course, everything in between turns to mud. And they get stuck in those ruts. Right. Happens all the time. So what I did is I looked at how do you find out about that niche marketing about that target marketing and how do you apply that to learning? And it's the same systems.

Heather (00:28:25):

If you're creating a course for somebody you do, what's called a needs assessment. Right. Okay. The other thing I tried really hard to do is to leave all jargon at the door. When people take my program, you're not going to hear a single word of jargon because you don't need to be an instructional designer to create an online course. What you need is a framework to drop your knowledge into that becomes a course, right? So what I did is I bought from the marketing industry and I bore them from the instructional design industry. And I looked at what makes this easy for people to not feel intimidated by, because what I want people to remember is that, you know what, you know, better than I ever could. And you know what, you know, better than most people who are Hocking, what you're also trying to Hawk, right?

Heather (00:29:11):

Whatever it is you're trying to sell. There are 10 other people, not nearly as qualified as you who are doing that out there. And you have to find where the pillar is that you're going to stand and how you're going to do that. So I help you figure that out with the course. And I walk you through this course, it's a four step system, right? That you walk through. But the first whole week that you work with me, we talk about this market research. And how do you pull that data so that you actually create a course, number one, that people want, number two, that they finished. Remember we talked about how people don't finish these courses, right? And the way that they finish them is that you focus on one or two very specific problems. You don't need to teach them everything that, you know, they don't want to know that.

Heather (00:29:49):

Anyway, they want to know the answer to a question they have, and they want to be shown how to do it. They want systems and they want speed, right? Entrepreneurs are busy, do not make courses that are a year long. Nobody will buy them and you will lose. You'll lose them at six months every time. So you have to look at the needs and the wants of people. And then you look at what do I have to fill those needs and wants. And when you do that, when you weigh that marketing framework over it, and you put it into an instructional design framework, you get a course that people go, this is exactly what I need. And it, there, there is no sales funnel when you're selling exactly what people need, you know? And so I think it's really interesting because we tend to think that it's an experts.

Heather (00:30:37):

You know, you're an expert in what you do. I'm an expert in what I do, but experts tend to hold things close to their chest because they want to be seen as someone who knows more than anyone else. I think an expert is someone who goes, you have a problem. Here's how you can fix it. Right. And that doesn't mean that I'm out there trying to make a hundred mini MES. I don't need a hundred more people that are there to understand instructional design. In fact, I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm trying to just get you to do the thing you're trying to do without needing to learn an entire other industry. I think that is what makes someone an expert when you can push people over the hump without weighing them down with a bunch of baggage. Right? And so the thing is that it, it, when you create an online course and you said it earlier, and I'm so glad you said it, you think about what you want to put into it.

Heather (00:31:28):

And so many people create these courses in seclusion, and they're afraid of, you know, once you hit published, like, well, the whole world is going to judge it. That's not very fun because then they're going to start to see the cracks. They're going to see where you didn't answer that question, or you missed a staff or whatever. Um, but that's why when you only focus on one or two very small things, it's very easy to drill down into those things. Right. And nobody said you couldn't have 10 or 15 courses to solve 10 or 15 bucks.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:31:54):

That's why I was just thinking, you know, our attention spans are so small that instead of trying to cover everything of one major subject, break it down and cover, you know, one or two points like you're saying, and put 10 of these instructional videos out there.

Heather (00:32:09):

Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing that I'm seeing right now, because it's the holidays and we all love to just give stuff away at the holidays is a real under, at, at one point at one end of the spectrum, we're overselling like crazy. And what I mean by that is we're over promising. What's actually happening inside the course, right? At the other end of that spectrum, we're giving it away for pennies because we're afraid it's not really worth what we say it's worth. Right? And so I'm seeing a lot of people and it happens around the holidays, but it does happen all long to where my course was a thousand dollars. And today it's 97 bucks. You will never forget that today it's worth 97 bucks when tomorrow it's a thousand dollars. Again, you'll never pay me that thousand dollars. Right. You could have gotten it for $97 today.

Heather (00:32:59):

Right. And people think like, Oh, that's great. I'll just, I'll make up for it in volume. But what you're doing as a course creator is you're saying to people out loud, what's in this course is not worth more than $97 right now, if you're selling a course at 97 bucks, that's great. Make it 97 bucks. Don't make it 49. Don't put it on sale because knowledge is not for sale, right? It's not something that you can, you can just sell. It's acquired, right? You, you have to decide to engage in that. And what I want people to know is that digital courses, online courses are not products. We're not selling products here. They are simply vehicles. It's a container. It could just as easily have been an e-book. It could just as easily have been an in-person workshop. It could just as easily have been 10 social media posts where you're giving away everything.

Heather (00:33:51):

Right. But it's the container. What people pay for is accountability systems and speed. The more accountable you can make your people, the better systems you can give them. And the faster you can get them there, the more money they're willing to pay. But if you slash it with a big red marker and say, it's on sale today, then all of a sudden, my trust for you goes down because well, yesterday it was a thousand bucks. Is it not worth a thousand bucks anymore? Right. But we're desperate right now. Right. People are desperate. They're just trying to make a buck. And what's the fastest way to make a buck. What things on sale, right. Except everyone is left with kind of a bad taste in the middle of afterwards, because you got to put that price back up eventually. And then we're all just waiting for your next sale.

Speaker 3 (00:34:33):

Or I was the guy that paid a thousand dollars yesterday. It's the worst. That's the worst thing.

Heather (00:34:39):

Well, podcasts about this, myself, about how, one of the reasons I don't do discounts anymore. And for a long time in my business, I had this value system where I was like, I'm not discounting anything. Right. Uh, and that was a lot of stubborn pride. And the more I learned about business, the more I realized that there is a time and a place for that. Right. However, I think there's, you know, in good conscience, I can't sell you what I'm selling you today at full price. If I know that thing is going on sale tomorrow, right. Because I'm not Walmart, right. Like it's not buyer beware when you're buying from people and we have companies, but we're people. And, and I think that that's really, really important. And I think there's a lot of that happening right now. I just saw someone posts on social media.

Heather (00:35:27):

Uh, yeah. It was 1,097 bucks and it was slashed to $97. Wow. And then I saw another one that was a thousand. I think it was also $1,097. There must be some psychology around that price. Um, it's not too much, not too little or something, but 97 bucks seems to be the thing. Yeah. So it was $1,097 and it was, she was selling this thing for $1. Wow. $1. So basically what she was doing was baking, you pay a dollar to get on her email list, right. Yeah. Right. So like that's genius. Uh, but I would be wild if I had bought that same product for $1,097. Like you say exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We, we,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:36:11):

Instead of focusing it, well, my, my opinion and what I talked to a lot of my clients about is instead of focusing on discounting, because you'll never get out of that. And, and we need to focus on the value proposition. I mean, if, like you said earlier, if there's a thousand dollars worth of value there, then it's worth a thousand. If there's only $97 worth of value, then that's where it needs to be. You know, we have to decide that upfront, but let's focus on the value in what we're giving. If it's worth it, you know what we're giving people it's worth that amount of money. And, uh, because it sometimes also too is like, you know, people just want to beat you down over price that will not make, you know, if you have other services that you're gonna try to get with them, then they're going to want to beat you down on that. It's an endless cycle. So I'm like you, I mean, there are reasons why we've got bulk bulk or, you know, somebody engage you for 10, 10 different products, you know? Yeah. There is a time for that, but just one off, somebody want to, you know, take advantage of you beat you down over that. I'm totally against that.

Heather (00:37:20):

Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting, like I did this year, I very purposely, I didn't do a black Friday sale and I watched the conversations online from small business owners, like solo preneurs, and I'm a solopreneur. It's just me. I run my entire company and I watched people have these conversations around the pressure they felt to discount, right. So there's the pressure to discount, but then there's also the social conformity of this is a thing every business does in North America. I don't know if they do it in Europe, but in North America, this is the thing we do. Um, and so I made a very conscious decision not to discount my prices for black Friday. What I did instead was I partnered with an organization who has a very specific pool of people who are my exact target market. And I offered them an exclusive code to get, I think I give them 500 bucks.

Heather (00:38:14):

I gave them $500 off my program, but the only way you could get that was if you were in that exclusive pool of people, it wasn't a sale. It was a partnership. Right? So in exchange, in exchange for that, and I'll tell you, I did that in a minute in exchange for that. I was featured in their gift guide in, I live in Atlanta, Canada. Uh, we're pretty small. And Atlanta, Canada, we don't have a lot of stuff going on here. But what we do have is plenty of very talented entrepreneurs. And this woman that I know in my network reached out and said, Hey, do you want to do a contribution? And I said, yes, I gave away one seat. My program is valued at $2,000. I gave away one seat in my program as a prize for any entrepreneur who wanted to, to do the draw, to, to be able to create an online course.

Heather (00:39:02):

And then I gave discount codes for, I think it was up to 50 of their people and they have a huge network in Atlanta, Canada. And the reason I did that was because I was going to take money out of my pocket to buy Facebook ads. And I'm going to be real Frank with ya. I hate Facebook ads. And this year Facebook ads have just been like robbing pockets of people. It's a great tool. If you can figure out how to use it, but it costs you thousands of dollars to figure out how to use it. Right. So I said, I don't want to do a black Friday sale, but I do want to do some Facebook ads except I hate Facebook ads. So when I was approached by this girl, I said, you know what, the money I was going to spend on doing those ads, if I got one or two people to sign up for my program at the discounted price, that would have been better than doing Facebook ads.

Heather (00:39:52):

And so I shifted my focus away from spending $500 on Facebook ads to trading basically a giant network of advertising. For which realistically let's be honest, it was going to be one or two seats. It wasn't going to be 50, 50. People were not going to sign up for my program. But when you do Facebook ads or when you do those kinds of funnel selling things, you have to set metrics, right? You have to know what does success look like? And so for me, it was, well, if I spent $500 and I got one person to buy a $2,000 program, that's a pretty good success metric. So instead of doing that, I kept my 500 bucks and I gave them a bunch of discount codes. And so far nobody has purchased, but one of the reasons why it worked out really well was that that became a national thing.

Heather (00:40:40):

It was sent all over Canada and all over North America. And you guys have, uh, in the States, you guys have a show called shark tank. Yes. So in Canada, our, our version of that is called Dragon's den. And one of the dragons picked up this gift guide. And so one of these women, who's on TV here, Arlene Dickinson is her name. She owns a huge venture communication and capital company in Western Alberta. Uh, she picked up the gift guide and she sent it out to her million people network. And then all of a sudden, a million people knew about me. Right. And it costs me nothing. And I remember thinking like, this is like gorilla marketing at its finest, really, you know, like just get out there, pound the pavement, do what you can to be seen and be heard, but be very careful about spending money for vanity metrics.

Heather (00:41:29):

You know? So it was interesting because you have to set those metrics. You have to think about as a course creator, but also as a trainer myself, I need to think about what is the best way to let people know about me. And then what's going to happen is people are going to mimic what I'm doing, right. Because they've seen how I sold my course. They want to sell their course in the same way. And so it cost me no money and I got national reach international reach because then we get into the United States with it as well. Um, and sometimes being seen is worth more than making a sale. That sale only happens once. Right. You know, but that gift guide, this Atlanta Canadian gift guide, there's things, there's 30 of us, it's 30 women in this gift guide. Um, the reach of that now is exponential and it will live on for a while like that.

Heather (00:42:17):

Um, but I think there's a real pressure for people to, to not look at something like that and see the value in that and throw the $500 on Facebook to get a couple of more likes to get one or two more sales. Right. But those sales, you know, they're so important, obviously money is the lifeblood of your business. Um, but if you can't get outside of a hundred kilometers of where you sell your, it's not your you're going to run dry, you know, and that's important. That's why an online course can help. So many people is automatically without even thinking you get outside of where you live and you can help virtually anyone, you know, whether or not you should is another story for another day. Yeah, yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:42:57):

Yeah. And I, and you know, kind of off topic a little bit, but I thank you, you know, that situation just reaffirms that, you know, we have to stay out there. We have to stay active. We have to look for those different things because just like yourself, I mean, look what that one opportunity turned into. I mean, that's amazing that's, but if you hadn't been out there hustling and doing it would have never happened. So I, you know, sometimes people, uh, you know, we kind of ebb and flow on those marketing efforts on what things that we're trying to do. And so there, uh, you know, every, everything that's good for us does not have to be paid. There are a lot of things that we can do just, um, you know, networking, helping other people out that ends up helping us tremendously.

Heather (00:43:42):

Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. And it's um, can I tell you a little story? Sure. Okay. This is so on point with what you're saying. So two years ago, um, and I think it's been maybe even two years since you and I have spoken, but, uh, two years ago, I, again, I live in Atlanta, Canada. There's not a whole lot going on here on a good day. Uh, I love it with all my heart. I would never live anywhere else, but we are economically challenged to say the least, okay. So two years ago, a friend of mine and I, around this time of year, we were talking about, we wanted to go to a women in business conference. The last women in business conference that was held in my area was in 2015 and I was at it. And I remember thinking like, God, this is amazing.

Heather (00:44:24):

This is so great. There hadn't been one in almost five years at this point. So, uh, my friend and I, well, if there's no court, no conference to go to let let's just hold a conference, let's create one. And so one of the very first things we said, cause we were, we were kind of half joking. You know, you say things. And especially when you're, you're bantering with, with colleagues and business partners, you kind of say things. And then most of those ideas fizzle out, uh, except we're doers her. And I, we will just get things done, especially if there's a hole to fail. If there's a gap somewhere, we'll just show up and do it. And so we joked about what if a net for Shuren could be our keynote speaker. And for those of you who don't know who know for sure it is, she was the CEO of home Depot, Asia, and then became the CEO of home Depot, Canada.

Heather (00:45:11):

And then was, was the leading, um, uh, investor in the Michael's arts and craft store in Canada. So she brought this chemistry. She's kind of a big deal. Uh she's from 20 minutes from where I live and she's an international business woman sensation. She's incredible. She's an author, so many, so many amazing things. Anyway, she lived she's from 20 minutes from where I live. I don't know her from a hole in the wall. She certainly doesn't know me, but we were kind of joking. Like, wouldn't it be fun if we could get this woman to come and be our keynote speaker to our non-existent, we're probably joking conference. So you say something, you put it out into the world, right? This is why to your point, networking is so, so important. So one of the things I wanted to do in late 2018 going into 2019 was that I wanted to get out in my, my community.

Heather (00:46:05):

I wanted to sell in my own community even more. And I was still freelancing at the time. And I saw on Facebook, uh, this girl who I did not know, but was in my community of entrepreneurs, who said, I'm doing surveys with entrepreneurs, women, entrepreneurs in the community for a report that's being written, looking for people to take the survey. So I wrote her and said, Hey, yeah, because I was checking my own box. Right. I was like, Oh, this is the thing I want to do. I want to get out into my community more. I'm going to reach out to where I'll take the survey. So I did the survey with her and I got to chatting with her and she was lovely. And I said, Oh, and by the way, I'm doing this women's conference because there's nothing like this happening here. And she said, Oh, we are actually doing something that same weekend.

Heather (00:46:46):

And we were doing it on in March. It was for international women's day in March. And she said, we're doing something that same weekend. And I said, what are the odds that we went from? There's nothing for women on this day to, there are two events. Anyway, it turned out that there ended up being like five events that day. But our event was certainly, it was the biggest one and we, it was amazing. But anyway, she says to me, um, we should probably work together on this so that we're not stepping on each other's toes, which was totally classy. And I could not thank her enough for doing that because of course, your first thought is, Oh my God, everyone's going to go to her event by event. Right? Like just the pettiness and the claws come out. So anyway, I was like, okay, thank you for doing that.

Heather (00:47:26):

So she invited me to this condo, uh, that was not hers that was owned by an F for Sharon, the CEO of home Depot, the woman who brought Michael's to Canada, Michael's arts and crafts to Canada. Uh, because it turned out that that survey that I had taken was being orchestrated by a group of women that a net for sure, and had orchestrated to take this survey so she could invest money in the community to help women entrepreneurs. And so one phone call, one survey, one conversation led to me sitting in her living room, talking to her sister because she lives in Toronto. Um, her sister was there and her sister, Dorothy is lovely. And they loved me and her sister, Dorothy said, I'll get a net to go there. So she called up an F for me, and I never had to speak to her.

Heather (00:48:12):

She called up a net and said, Heather's this girl and her friend, Wendy are doing this thing in Cape Breton in Nova Scotia. You've got to come, please come and speak for these girls. So we had a hundred people in the room and we got $20,000 worth of sponsorship. We had, Oh, it was crazy. We did it in 56 days. Okay. From idea we showed, we did it in 56 days. That's amazing. The icing on the cake was a net flew in. We have a very small airport, like two terminal airport here. Like not even terminal gate to gate airport. She flew in at three o'clock. She come over to our event and spoke for one hour, talk to everybody and then go back on a plane and left and charged us nothing. She she's like a 20, 30, $40,000 keynote speaker. He, you have to pay for her to come.

Heather (00:49:01):

And she said, these women in Cape Breton need my help. It's near dear to rehearse. Nobody else was doing it. She came and she helped us. So anyway, uh, and I'm lying a little bit there. She didn't get back on the airplane. She actually then invited us. She was going to do other things that day. Um, she, it was her event. The other event that weekend was her event. And she invited us to be guests of her event. And so I got to hang out with her all weekend. I got to have a beer with her and the F like the repercussions, the like waves of opportunity that came from that one phone call to this day. I now have a network of 700. I can't even believe there are 700 women entrepreneurs in my little Island. There's like a hundred thousand people that live here.

Heather (00:49:45):

And 700 of them are in this Facebook group, all running businesses. Anytime you need anything, anytime you have an idea, these women just come together and they do all this stuff. And it's so important for people to not just golf at things and say, it's not worth my time if I'm not being paid right. Or, you know, to help somebody out. Like, I have lots of friends who were starting podcasts and I've been podcasting for years and I'm like, Oh my God, I'll be on your podcast. And then I'll interview you and we'll talk about all your stuff. And it's, you know, you got to scratch people's backs a little bit. And yeah. And I think sort of bringing this back to the course piece of it, is that just because you create a course, doesn't mean you don't have to be out there going, Hey, look, I have this thing, you know, it's, there is such a sense that it's one and done, and then you can go to sleep and wake up with a bank full of money.

Heather (00:50:37):

And I've had people say this to me, you know, like, Oh, you must be so nice. You don't have to work. I'm like, Oh my God, what? I work more now than ever this isn't, this is a baby in the world. Like you do, you know how much it like, it's a lot. Right. But it's, it's so interesting because I think right now there's a real sense of, you need to just spit things on the internet and then react. And it's conversations like this, Roy and it's conversations like I had with that girl, whose name was Jill, who she actually ended up starting as our very first cidery. We have a cidery now, because this woman thought the red tape for two years to build it. You know, like people are amazing when you talk to them and the reach that you get when you talk to people, it's incredible. And I think now more than ever, um, selling is, is it really is relationships. It really is. You know, people who say, Oh, it's who, you know, like you're, you're frigging, right? It is. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:51:36):

I think that's a two-fold message to take away is not only, you know, we need to keep pushing and pushing, but we also need to think about giving back without expecting something, because you know, this one visit, okay, how many lives that she touched and the changes that have, you know, will take place for a long time to come. It's not just a, just what happened at that point in time. But this will, that will be an event that will have ripple effects for years to come. So that's yeah.

Heather (00:52:05):

And, and it's amazing because you know, when you're the orchestrator of that, when you're someone who like made that kind of thing happen, people look at you like, Oh my God, that you must be a special flower. And you're, it's not that you're a special flour. It's you picked up the phone and asked a question, you know, or you asked for help. And I think so many times entrepreneurs and business owners don't succeed because we make the mistake. And I'm saying, we, because this has certainly been true of me. I think we make the mistake of thinking. We should, we should know this. We should like what you're trying to build an online course, and it's not working it's because you don't know how to do it. So why are you sitting there telling yourself, you should know how to do it if you don't know how to do it. But I think we do that a lot. Right? Our marketing's not working well, I'm just doing what everyone else is doing. Well, that's probably why it's not working. Like it's we get, we trick ourselves a little bit into thinking this should be easier than it is, right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:53:06):

No, I agree with that. So, uh, tell this as quickly, uh, before we wrap up. Um, so I pick up the phone, I call Heather and say, Hey, got an idea. Can you just kind of hit the high spots of, you know, kind of how this process and I know product services, everything is a variable, but you know, just on a very generic level, what does that process look from the time that we can't make contact?

Heather (00:53:29):

Yeah. That's a great question. Thanks for asking. Right. It's actually, it's a very simple process. So by the time you've spoken to me, you have probably been thinking about grading your course for some time, I bet you 10 bucks. You've kicked your can a couple of times trying to do it. There's a level of frustration there. You've hit some, a point where you don't know what the next step is. So anyone I'm working with has already tried this or has been thinking about this for some time. Um, I work with established entrepreneurs. So this isn't startup. Uh, one of the things that I think people are making a big mistake with right now is they're dropping what they're doing. And they're going in a totally new direction. Not having an experience in that direction in order to be a really successful course creator, you got to know what you're teaching, right?

Heather (00:54:10):

Right. So if a course is your first product, I'm not your first call. You need to have a business to support the infrastructure of that online course. Okay. Um, so we will have a conversation around where are you at in your business? Where do you see the course helping you accomplish? Why do you want to create it? When you come into the program with me, it's a four week program. So my program is actually called create your online course in 30 days flat. And the reason I can promise you 30 days flat is because I'm not teaching you entrepreneurship, not teaching you sales. I'm not even teaching you marketing. I'm teaching you one simple thing, how to take your expertise and put it into an online course. So I'm telling, I'm helping you build the container. How many people you build the vehicle. Okay. So the first week is building the groundwork.

Heather (00:54:54):

That's all the market research. That's interviewing potential students. That's figuring out what you're going to teach, why you're going to teach it and how you're going to teach it. At the end of week one, we have a, we have a functional working course outline. So you know what you're going to create week two is creating something. I call a tech space. And so that's all the material in your head. And in your experience, this is one of the key points that people get hung up on is where do you start getting all those ideas out of your head and onto the papers. So that's week two. At the end of week two, you have pages and pages and pages of the solutions you're going to provide for your students. Okay? Week three is when you take all those solutions and you record videos, you create workbooks, you develop the layout of the course.

Heather (00:55:39):

What would it look like if you were going to deliver it in person, we break it down that way first and then week four. So on days 21 to day 29 or 30, rather. So it's like an eight day week at the last week, just because you need time for uploading and recording. The last week is called the upload. And that's where I teach you how to use a learning management system, one learning management system. I don't give you a choice. The whole process is about eliminating choices. You need answers. I can give you answers and move on to the next thing. So I teach you how to use a learning management system and teach you how to set up a sales page. I teach you how to set up your payment gateway at the end of 30 days. If you've gone through the program, if you've gotten up on day one and did one, two, and three things, you got up on day five, and you did one, two and three things at the of 30 days, you have a fully finished, ready to sell online course there.

Heather (00:56:27):

The caveat is, and I'm very clear about this. The caveat is you can do this in 30 days, and I encourage you to do it in 30 days, but it's up to you. Whether those 30 days are in a row because everybody's got you're a business owner, right? So how it works is you get 90 days access, but you will only have to work for 30 days to great. This course. Now some people have done it in 30 days. I have two people selling courses right now. I have two more people coming through they're finishing this week. So they will have their courses up of the people who've gone through the program. I would say half the people have done it in 30 days straight, and the other half are picking at it a day here a day there. Yeah. Calendar days wise. And I think that's really important because I don't want to pull the wool over anybody's eyes.

Heather (00:57:12):

You can do it on January 1st to January 30th, or you could spend every three days for three months working on it. Okay. What the program comes with is four weeks of coaching. And the reason I do that is because after the first four weeks, you're not going to need me for very much after that. It's the first four or three weeks, rather the first three weeks of material where people get hung up, the last part is just execution. And so that's it. So it's very simple, very simple delivery, very simple framework. And the onus is really on you to do the work. However, one of my other pet peeves is one of the things I, I never want to say to people is, you know, well, if you did the work, it would be done. I don't, I hate that. That's a life poaching thing. I personal development.

Heather (00:57:56):

You know, if you just journaled more, you'd be happier. Well, okay, fine. But this journaling isn't making me happy. Um, so I went with results-based training, which means that every day, and I worked really hard to make sure that people didn't feel overwhelmed. The content is dripped and it's on demand. So you can do the work as you want to go. Uh, but one of the things I did, I, that is proving to be very effective for people is I'm only asking you to do one or two things a day, which only requires you to spend an hour to two hours max, every day, working on this, right. It, because it's designed for already established business owners who don't have enough time to have lunch. It had to be accessible that way. Right now, the way that I promise 30 days is you're not teaching everything, you know, right. You're creating a course that focuses on one or two problems. We're creating five, six modules at the most. We are not creating year long courses together. We're doing six to 12 week long courses, which is all people can handle anyway. Um, so there's, there's a lot built into it so that you don't fail.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:59:00):

Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. I think that's great to break it down in those bite sized nuggets, because like you said, there, people are running their business, so that's awesome. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. So what is a tool that you use in your daily life? It can be professional personal, but a tool, a habit of ritual. So what's something that you do you couldn't do without

Heather (00:59:23):

Something I couldn't do without do you know, I I'm a doer, so I need a task list all the time. And I actually, I have a system that I use, but it's not just one system. I have a system for my social media that I use paper to record my social media, what I'm going to do on that day. And then I use my Google calendar to facilitate time-blocking and it's not sexy and it's not even functional for a lot of people, but being able to see there's one place where my appointments live. And I would say more specifically to answer your question, it's the reminders on Google calendar. If I'm being honest, it goes, Hey, you got a phone call where Rory in five minutes. Oh yeah. Right. Okay. Great. Like it's that stuff, right? Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think, I think the, I think tools are only as effective as the uses that you have for that.

Heather (01:00:25):

Right. And I have lived and died by my Google calendar since 2017 when I started my business, because if it's written down, it's going to get done and I've modeled my own program after that in a calendar format, if it's written down and you'd show up and you do this today, it's going to get done. Um, and so I think that's probably the biggest thing for me. Um, but I'll just tell you a little trick that I started doing in the winter when I was feeling really overwhelmed with COVID-19 and everything. Um, because when you're, when you're faced with obstacles and change, you're not really sure what direction to go in and you don't really want to focus on. And so one of the things I started doing was reverse engineering, my to-do list. So instead of starting the day with a list of things, I thought I should work on, as I worked on things, I wrote down what I had done. And so at the end of the day, I would have, you know, four or five things on a list instead of a list with four or five things that didn't get done. Right. Right. And, and that was, that's something, that's a tool I pull out every now and then it's, uh, it's just a strategy for making you feel more productive than you are.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (01:01:31):

And I think that's a good point because, um, you know, I have a habit, I'm a list list person myself. So I've got my list and I think we all have the habit of beating ourselves up at the end of the day. Cause I left three things on there. What we don't do is we don't celebrate the seven that we took care of. And if we prioritize typically they are the, probably the most important seven that we had. So we need to celebrate that at the end of the day, like got this done instead of just beating herself up about what was left over.

Heather (01:02:01):

Yeah. Yeah. Cause if you're anything like me and everyone else on the planet, all of the stuff that was left over was the hard stuff. Right. That push to the bottom for a reason.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (01:02:16):

Well, Heather tell everybody how, uh, number one, they can reach out, get a hold of you are how they can sign up for the, uh, online training.

Heather (01:02:26):

Yeah, thanks. Right. So my website is Heather deveaux.com. Um, I'll just spell it for you. It's H E a T H E R D E V E a U x.com. Um, and when you visit there, you'll see that there is a bunch of stuff. Um, but the most important tab is the created online course tab where you'll learn all about my program called think big, moved fast, great. Your online course in 30 days slash and people can find me on Instagram, just Heather Deveaux and I'm on Facebook as think big move fast as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (01:02:54):

Awesome. So y'all reach out to Heather. Let's get that online course. Let's get started and start the new year off, fresh with that. Heather, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to speak with us. We certainly do appreciate it and we'll be Vista and soon kind of catch up again. And this is such an in-depth, uh, subject. I'm sure we can have three or four conversations, but thanks a lot for being here. Appreciate you listening again. This is a, the business of business podcast. You can find us at www dot the business of business podcast. We're on all the major platforms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, Spotify. Uh, I saw that even a heart radio. We got put on there yesterday. So if we're not on a platform that you use, let me know. I'll be sure. And get us added to that. You can also find us Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, this, uh, the, uh, recorded video. This will be put up as well again until next time everybody take care of yourself.

Think Big. Move Fast. - Heather Deveaux

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility with Bobby Machado

Bobby discusses steps we can take involving our own site in order to improve the SEO. We pick up after our keyword searches and move to check our existing content to see if it reflects our keywords we want to use. We want to optimize for a theme. It is good to develop a sitemap to follow as you build out or tweak the site. Use of headers.

About Bobby:

Bobby is the CEO and Lead Strategist at Signa Marketing, CEO at Sector 7 Apps, and a partner at Quick Job Products with his brother Cesar Machado.

As a kid, Bobby always had an interest in business such as providing landscaping services, training horses, or reselling “Tang” back to his parents during 5 grade. His experience in the digital world began when he taught himself how to code websites in high school, which turned into a way for Bobby to make money on the side while racing motocross, which remains as one of his passions to this day.

After he stopped competitively racing at the age of 22, Bobby decided to focus his full-time efforts in web development as a freelance web developer, which then introduced him into the digital marketing world. Being the analytical and creative type, Bobby developed a passion for digital marketing and data.

After working at an automotive digital marketing agency as a paid media specialist, managing a little over $300,000 per month in Google Ad spend for several auto dealerships in the United States, Bobby combined my passion for business and launched Signa Marketing.

Signa Marketing currently makes up about 70% of Bobby’s time and he enjoys hosting a Signa Marketing show named “Blueprint”, in which he answers any and all user-submitted questions on how to market their business online. New episodes are released on Signa Marketing’s YouTube Channel.

Overall, Bobby enjoys being immersed in anything “digital” that has a positive impact on people and humanity.

www.signamarketing.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (00:03):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm your host, Roy. This is one of our digital marketing series on SEO episode number two. Uh, we're going to be talking with Bobby with Signa media, um, uh, Signa marketing, excuse me, with Signa marketing. And, uh, we're going to be talking today about the on site SEO. So Bobby, thanks for being with us again. We appreciate your, uh, helping us with this SEO, unraveling it for us, telling us where we need to put our attention and you know why we need to worry about certain issues.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (00:35):

Oh, of course. That'll happen. Happy to do so. Yeah. SEO is one of my favorite, uh, subjects. Um, and it's, it's, uh, it's amazing. It's a puzzle that can always be put together. So yeah, I'm excited to dive into the on-site aspect of it today.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (00:46):

Yeah. And if you, uh, this is the first episode you're listening to, you may want to go back one week. We, uh, uh, posted episode one where we kind of just went over, you know, the generals of SEO, who it's for, why we should care about it and the building blocks. And I think we're going to pick up there with our, uh, key keyword, you know, the, the place to start is let's look at the keywords to see what people are actually searching for.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (01:10):

Yes, yeah, no, exactly. So kind of where we left off exactly as is keyword research and how to conduct it. So, uh, again, for context, uh, when we start to dive into SEO, keyword research really dictates and drives the strategy from there. And it's really as a domino effect from there. So we start with keyword research to understand, you know, what exactly are, is our end users searching for in relation to our product or service. And we start to ask ourselves, okay, well, if we have an existing site, we ask ourselves, does any of our current content on our site even meet those, those key phrases or answer those questions. And we start, you start to try to make sure that you're matching everything driven, uh, based off of, uh, the user of what they're searching for. And so a really good, uh, free tool that you can, everyone can use is the Google keyword planner in, in any Google ads account.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (02:05):

And that tool is going to give you at least, uh, an idea of, of the keywords, like after you've identified certain keywords that you want to go after, you can bet them, you can see, okay, are people actually searching for these keywords as their search volume behind it? Um, and, and with that tool, it'll also give you an estimated, uh, average cost per click. And typically he wants to have a high cost per click, meaning that, you know, they're pretty competitive are indications that there are actually very valuable keywords that there's some buying intent intent behind them, uh, because advertisers is not going to waste money on keywords that don't have buying intent usually behind them. Right? So, um, using a free tool like that can definitely start to at least give you a foundation from a keyword research standpoint of what type of content you should have on your website, what pages should exist on your website, et cetera. If you want to take your keyword research up a notch, you can use a paid tools like SEM rush or age refs. Uh, those are great tools for conducting even deeper keyword research. Uh, but that's where you want to start as your keyword research. And that's going to drive the rest of your SEO strategy from onsite perspective.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (03:12):

Yeah. And, and I'm, uh, uh, very much a novice novice at this. So, um, uh, I will pose this as a question to you that, so sometimes when we look up keywords, we'll actually see that there may be a phrase that's associated with that. So I guess part of looking that up is that maybe there's two or three words we could actually string together to make that, uh, a searchable are whatever our title or whatever, our content, even more searchable with more words strong in there. Is that correct?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (03:39):

Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's, it's almost, I always kind of preached that. We want to get away from the idea of just optimize one page for one keyword or one key phrase. It's really a beam that you're trying to optimize for. And so you'll, you'll try to find that, that top level cat, uh, keep raise that has the most search volume, but to what you mentioned right now, there's going to be a ton of other keyword variations. That mean the same thing or, or 90% closely related to that main keyword, um, that maybe have lower search volume, but you want to make sure that those are included, encountered and counted for, uh, within your onsite SEO strategy. So, absolutely.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (04:16):

Yeah. And dependent upon the industry too, we may have very specific words that we use within an industry that if the consumer's not familiar with those technical terms, they may be, uh, searching, using some combination of different words. And that's one thing I've noticed about, uh, like the SCM rush I've used that prior in that, uh, if you put a broad category in, sometimes you may be surprised at the different words that come up for that category.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (04:46):

Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Kim rush has a neat, uh, tool has been, uh, uh, the keyword magic tool for that, because you'll find even a couple of columns. One column is questions that are related to the subject matter. And it's great because if you're trying to find blog content to write for, it's giving it to you right there, what people are asking, you know, the search engine.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (05:07):

Yeah. Yeah. And so the number on the right, the number of searches is there a good, I realize that each phrase that we put into search it may have its own grouping, but, you know, I was looking at one the other day that had like the top one had 10,000, but then we got down into the hundreds. Is there a line that, where we want to cut off or as long as it's getting, uh, some in the hundreds of search traffic, is that good?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (05:32):

Yeah. So there's, there's a couple of factors that come into play because it depends, uh, where you're currently at in your SEO journey. And so, uh, for example, if you have a really high authority website, um, I mean like super high, like say you're, I mean, even like Forbes or something like that, for them, you know, they have so much authority that they know they'll, don't go for the most likely the key, the key phrases for a term that has the most search volume in the sense that because they have so much authority that they know that they can most likely rank for it. Right. A small business that tries to go for a insanely competitive keyword that has a hundred thousand search searches per month. Yeah. The reality is that they're most likely not going to rank for it. So they got to drill down and find keywords that are more in their, in their tier of authority, really, if we're going to, uh, rank for, and that's also talking from a national SEO perspective when it comes to local SEO.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (06:31):

Yeah. Those, those, uh, that search volume is definitely going to be lower depending on the service that you're offering and stuff like that too. So, you know, if you're a service based business in a local area, maybe the search volume for a keyword or key phrase is, you know, maybe a few thousand per month or maybe even just 800 per month or something like that. Um, so, so there's going to be variables like that when it comes to that geographic location, because a search volume for a specific service in LA compared to a small city in Nebraska or something like that, that search volume is going to, uh, uh, uh, be different within those two areas.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (07:05):

Okay. Okay, cool. So that kind of leads us into the next topic is the, the URL structure. And you've talked a little bit about domain authority. So what does all that mean for us?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (07:16):

Yeah. So, so say for example, you complete, you complete all your keyword research and you've identified. And let me back up one second. Two is, say, for example, you're a, a S uh, a small business and it's a service-based business and you have three services. So each of those services, you're going to conduct keyword research for each service to understand, you know, what is, what are people actually searching on, on a search engine related to service number one, and then we'll do that for service number two, and then number three. So that process will that then lead into the URL structure of a website, because then you're starting to look at how to organize a website. So first I would start with your homepage. And then after that, you'll have your three service pages and then a contact page. Most likely I, didn't probably a blog so that you can work on top funnel stuff there, but, um, that's where you start to, to, uh, look at the architecture of a website.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (08:10):

And it is very, um, it's all about organizing information. That's how the search engines like they they're really looking at how is information organized and the better that we organize the information to make sense to anyone, uh, then the, the better, uh, for search engine crawler and also does a user. Okay. Um, so, so that, that's the output of getting a site map. And so once you look, and so that's the result and the deliverable from doing that exercise is really, you're looking to get to a site map of what, how, what are the pages that need exist on my website, and then how are they organized? Which pages are sub pages of other pages and just going through that organization like that, um, once you get to that point and you're like, okay, great. I have my site map. I know the type of site that I need to build or how to restructure my current website, uh, then from there, uh, you want to make sure that each page really has honed in, in terms of the exact keyword topic that it's going to be optimized for. Um, and so once you get to that point, then everything's a domino effect because each page has a purpose. And so, for example, what the service number one, you'll say, okay, cool. I know what the keyword research, what the keyword for this pages. Um, and now I can write my title tag am I meant a description, uh, to carry that keyword strategy within those two items there. So that's kind of like the process there too, at least starting the title tag and even the meta-description process.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (09:37):

Okay, awesome. So, um, content, you know, I, I'm a firm believer in content marketing. I mean, I think that's how we differentiate ourself from other people is, uh, putting out thoughtful content, being helpful, not being afraid. You know, we're not giving away the secret sauce usually, uh, easily when we give away some good details, we're actually explaining to the consumer how it may be a lot more difficult for them to do this themselves than reaching out and hiring an expert. So, uh, let's talk a little bit about, you know, the content

Bobby - Signa Marketing (10:11):

For sure. Absolutely. And even just to string these two items together, uh, w from title tag, meta to content, I also did want to mention that. So I touched on having your keyword research or your keyword category, uh, integrated into your title tag. You want in your meta description, not because it actually increases rankings or anything like that. Your meta description is actually all focused on increasing your click through rate. So you just want to make sure that it's, it's supportive of the headline, uh, because how we mentioned earlier, uh, earlier is that, you know, there's only 10 positions on Google and so everyone's fighting for it. So you want to make sure that your listing sticks out. Um, but the cool thing about adding your keyword within the meta description is that if people are searching it, it's actually going to be bolded. And that's just like those little items are things that can help boost your clicks, the rate.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (11:02):

Um, so then from there, it does lead us into the page content, because this is honestly like, like a high level, like easy ratio just to, to, for people to use, but it it's pretty safe to at least have that keyword category of keyword phrase appear at least every 150 words throughout a piece of content, just naturally. It's not something, you know, plus, or minus that it's not, you know, uh, you know, be all, it's not the Holy grail or anything like that, but that's a good rule of thumb is about every 150 words. This keyword or key phrase is going to appear naturally within the content itself. From there, you also want to make sure that your content is well organized. And what that means is, you know, making sure that the end user, when they're going through the content, they understand what's a heading and they're reading that it made is the introduction. Then it goes into some major points sections. And so that's where you'd use your, uh, H twos. Um, and then maybe an H two topic has to be broken into H threes to really get more details of that object subject. So it's all about just organizing content that makes it really easy for the end user to consume and understand where they're at in their journey of consuming this, this article or this piece of content. So, yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (12:16):

Uh, I want to back up for just a minute to the meta descriptions, because, you know, we were talking about a time on the page and we want people to stay on your site longer. So it's, it's important not only to have one, but if you change your page or tweak it, make sure that your meta descriptions, uh, keep up because the worst thing you can do is say, you know, I'm going to tell you about, um, you know, how to fix your garage door, how to buy one, you click on it. And it's something totally different. You know, people will leave your page immediately because they think it's, you know, there's something wrong with this. I'm going to go to somebody else. So it's just a good idea because that's kind of your, if I'm not mistaken, that's kind of like your, uh, you know, your teaser, your advertiser, like, this is what we're going to talk about. If you click on this link here.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (13:03):

Yeah. That's exactly. Yeah. And, and that's the thing, I mean, say, say Google rewards you with rankings and traffic and how we mentioned. I mean, if they don't see that historical behavior of people landing in city, staying on the site of that page stuff, it's going to affect your rankings. And so 0.2. So yeah, what you mentioned is it's highly important to stay relevant. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (13:25):

So the other thing not to belabor the page content either, uh, it's simple, but as a non-rider, you know, one thing I was never used to doing is putting those, uh, uh, the, the titles in. And so what they ask you to do, I think in some, you know, riding platforms, it's about every 150 200, maybe 300 words. They want you to break it up, have a new title, and then you can use that either the H two it's the size of it, or the H four, it's a little bit smaller, but you use those in order to kind of break up the page where readers can, I guess it's a site map for the content. I actually, people can look at those titles and see kind of where we're going with this or skip around. So it's, it's a good, it's a good thing to add. And if you're, if you're like me, if you're a non-rider rider, it's very important and I never really saw the need for it, but, you know, especially the more we talk about SEO, the, the more important that they really are.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (14:21):

Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. You'll even find, um, really, really long pieces of content that are just jam packed with a lot of good information. And they're almost, you'll find them online as like guides or like, you know, they're not even a blog article may, or they're like four or 5,000 words. Right. Um, but, uh, you'll find that a lot of them, even at the top for people are large pieces of content. They'll be very organized with headings, but they'll even have a table of contents at the very top at our anchor LinkedIn stuff like that. And, uh, Google loves that too, because I mean, now in search, people have probably noticed that when they have a question they'll type into Google and Google is feeding answers, even from aspects that are in the middle of the page. And when you click on it, it'll actually take you straight to the middle of that page. Um, and so it's, it's gaining insanely dynamic, which is awesome for the end user. But, you know, it's important that from us as business owners or publishers, that we're taking all those items into account so that we can maximize the opportunity for optimization.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (15:18):

Yeah. And it's funny, you mentioned that because this week I've noticed that, you know, it used to every now and then you would, if you did a search for how to, or something, you might get a little paragraph that opened up at the top, but now I've noticed that as you click down, even through the page, it starts opening up and it'll give you a block of text from that article to check out before you even clicked. So,

Bobby - Signa Marketing (15:39):

Oh yeah. Yeah. It's definitely been nice for me with any questions I have. It just takes me straight to it. It'll be something that's highlighted in yellow. I'm like, dude, this is awesome.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (15:48):

Right. All right. So, um, uh, so internal linking, you know, there's some other things that even though we've got a great article written, we've broken it up with some, uh, subtitles subtopics. Um, so now let's talk about internal linking and then also, uh, pictures and images. I think that's also very important.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (16:09):

Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, well, one aspect of optimizing content is apps is definitely internal linking and internal linking is, uh, is related to having internal links that point to other pages within your website. So it's not taking a person out or anything like that. Um, and I'll, I'll, I'll touch on outbound links, but right now it's just for internal links. Yeah. Um, what, what you're always asking yourself is what's beneficial for the user user experience. Always just use that as your anger, because that's what a search engine is looking for. And so say for example, you have a page or a blog post, and you're going through the content. And when you find out, uh, uh, uh, mention that ties into another aspect of your site or anything like that, um, those are opportunities to create an internal link to feed, to, to point that a user in that direction, if they need it, you know, they need, uh, uh, they have a question about, you know, whatever they read that they can get answered. Yeah. And so that's what you're just looking for is from a user experience standpoint, especially if they have a, uh, a paragraph and you mentioned some term that maybe doesn't make sense to them, but you have another piece of, uh, of content that answers that you would in turn up that, yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (17:21):

One thing I've just done on my, uh, on my personal website where I talk a little bit about employee retention is, so what I did is I've got like 10 or 12 steps that we need to walk through with each one has their own page with its own content. But what I've done is at the bottom, I put the link to that next page. So it makes it easier for them to go from number one, to number two, without having to go back up to the, you know, the top and get in back into the, the menu again. Yes. Yeah. That,

Bobby - Signa Marketing (17:50):

That exactly. There's also, uh, uh, this is kind of gets more heavier into the technolog, uh, technical aspect, but I'll touch on that a little bit is, is how, uh, how backlink authority juice is being funneled into the, to the site. So when, say for example, you have a high authority website, uh, with a backlink to one of your pages. And then that page should have internal links that are natural, that are beneficial to the user, that those internal links are actually gonna, uh, uh, capture some of that authority Jews it's going to get dispersed. And so imagine just that this juice of authority gained this person to the site, uh, uh, as, as it makes its way through. And it gets diluted, you know, as you get pages deeper and deeper, I guess I alluded to the fence. Um, but that's something that's also, why is internal linking so important because, you know, though you have a back link that's pointed to age a, but B and C are links are, would internally then Dell benefit some juice too. Okay.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (18:49):

Okay. Awesome. Yeah. So let's talk about images right quick. Um, just it's a must have nowadays. So we can't, we, we probably really shouldn't just post anything that strictly texts. We need to find some kind of an image. And again, uh, my opinion stock images are good and they have their, their moment and their place. But if we could take a, a real live image of us or our, our workplace or our process or our vehicles or whatever, to me, it always adds that connection from somebody that may have just hit the site, trying to figure out, you know, who is Bobby. Really?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (19:24):

Yeah, no, that's an excellent point. I always start with authentic photos and yeah, if you're, if it's, uh, you're on a budget Pence or just resources at the time, then yeah. You can default to using a relevant stock photo for sure. Yeah. Um, and that's, yeah, I, that's a great point right there. Uh, when it comes to optimizing the image on a page, uh, there's a few factors you want to look at a force size, uh, how big is this image? Is it going to take forever to load stuff like that? And so you want to make sure that it's, uh, compressed, but without losing the quality and ensure that it's going to load fast. Um, if you have a web development team, uh, do inquire about different, uh, formats that that image can be rendered in because you can have one image, but different copies of it, depending on what device is going to be rendered on.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (20:13):

And that way you can optimize for mobile. So that if it, if the browser is, uh, the server dictates, Oh, okay, this is this, um, Paul's coming from a mobile, uh, user, then it's going to use the mobile version of the image. So that it's even the bastard, but like that. Okay. So I'm kind of just keeping it super high level in that technical aspect, but you have felt the team definitely inquire about the different formats of one single image. Uh, so you can even optimize for that way. Um, the other items, it's going to be all texts, entitled tags. And with those, that's the opportunity to make you, um, he were to re enrich the, the image itself to basically describe what's occurring, what that image is related to. Um, and so, and that is important that that image is related to the keyword subject matter of the actual page as a whole. So, uh, that's important as well, but visual search from Google's perspective is really important. And so that's why making sure that all your images are properly optimized, Google along the way.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (21:13):

Yeah. Okay, great. Which kind of leads into the technical portion. Um, science speed it's I used to, there was a place you could go to kind of run some tests, but you do get deemed where if your speed, if your page doesn't load up fast enough, which has to do with the images and some other things, but talk about that for me.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (21:34):

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So more and more, uh, uh, technical SEO is, is incredibly important. It's always been really important, but, um, now from a sitespeed perspective, I mean, it is, uh, Google's expectations from us are very high. We want to make sure that we're getting as close to meeting those as possible. Uh, but from, yeah, that, that entails from a technicality standpoint, making sure that our sites are loading at lightning speeds. Um, honestly the, the faster, the better. Um, and, and it does get into the technical side of things of how sites are coded, you know, what platforms do you use, stuff like that. Um, and so, but there's always a way to make sure that your site is, is super, super fast. Um, and it, and this also kind of touches into what we described to now with images of even looking at, you know, how to make sure that, you know, taking advantage of, of any optimization efforts with, you know, providing images for specific, uh, platforms or devices.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (22:32):

I mean, in that sense, uh, so that you're not loading this huge image on a mobile device, you know, you can in a different version of it that smaller, more compressed. Um, and then also making sure that all your accessibility, uh, issues are always resolved. Um, accessibility is, uh, a big, big aspect. And that's also why it's all texts. The time texts are important too, because it's, um, it's for, you know, if, if so that people that can understand contextually what it's about, if the image is not rendering and stuff like that too. So, so accessibility goes a long way too. And that's something that Google does look for if your site is not me as having issues with accessibility in that sense. Yeah. You'll, you'll pages will get penalized in some way. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (23:12):

Yeah. And nowadays, I think if you're using WordPress or something very simple, they, uh, I think all of them now are optimized for PC and for cell phone. But I would say that, you know, if you still have a site that might have been built, you know, that hard coded back in the day, that's something that you definitely need to check out because, uh, the sites that were designed for a PC, they just do not load correctly onto a phone. And that can be a big thing. And the other part of that is if, um, you know, you need to check out it's little easier on, um, you know, when I've run some Google, uh, excuse me, some YouTube ads where you can go and see, but you'd be surprised, especially on the YouTube side that maybe 75% of the traffic nowadays is, you know, 75, 80% comes from a cell phone. I mean, so most, most everybody, you know, except for some of us old timers that still get on the computer, cause we need to have a big screen to see what's on there, but most, most people are doing everything off of their cell phones nowadays.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (24:16):

Oh yeah, yeah, no, there's a lot of industry that, uh, that mobile devices just makes up more than half of the traffic for a site. There are definitely certain industries that, uh, it's still the, the reverse, I would say, even, uh, businesses that are, are in really large spaces, maybe like really large engineering firms or like stuff like that. You'll see that desktop still takes over in terms of traffic. But, you know, as if you're on a, especially on a, B to C business to consumer market, hands down mobile phone,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (24:49):

Uh, we need to wrap this up. I know one more point though, is it's good to look at your audience to see where that's coming from because, uh, one time on, uh, doing a YouTube ad, I made a mistake. And for some reason I had checked, uh, Europe as my target market. And, you know, it ran for a few days and I started noticing, I was like, wow, all this traffic is coming from TVs and S I guess in Europe, they must use a lot more TVs for surfing the internet than what we do. But you know, it just, it's a little bitty thing like that, that whoever that audience is wherever they reside, there may be those little differences that we need to share, pick up on.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (25:30):

Oh, yes. Yeah. Not that hands down. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (25:33):

All right, Bobby. Well, thanks a lot. Hey, tell everybody how they can reach out and get ahold of you.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (25:38):

Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, if you have any additional questions or you're like, you have a specific situation, you're like, man, I wish I could just get the answer for this. Uh, feel free to send it my way. I have a cool show called blueprint, but we answer questions on the fly, uh, on our YouTube, uh, show. So if you have a question, feel free to find us at taking the marketing is our handle on all social media. So you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, or even LinkedIn. And even if it's a comment or a direct message, we're always scraping those questions and making sure we answer them on the next episode.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 2, On-Site Strategies To Increase Visibility (26:09):

Okay, great. So y'all tune in, we'll go back next week, go back to last week and you can look at the introduction to SEO and then stay tuned next week. We're going to be talking about, uh, offsite SEO. So until next time, Bobby, thanks again for your time. Of course y'all can find www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com and we're on all the major, uh, social media platforms, as well as all the podcast platforms until next time, take care of yourself, take care of your business.

www.signamarketing.com

www.thebusinessofbusniesspodcast.com

 

Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In with Roy Harmon

Roy Harmon talks about the power of inbound marketing. Focus on what buyers need at each stage of the process. Don't underestimate just getting individuals into your funnel. They may not need your service right this minute, but they are in your pipeline where you can continue to drip them great content until they are in need of your product or service.

About Roy:

Roy Harmon is an experienced marketer with a demonstrated history of generating leads in the legal, political, automotive, higher education, software, and healthcare industries. His efforts have mobilized voters, enticed customers, and persuaded donors.

Advertoscope isn’t your typical lead generation company. Most of the time, business owners searching for lead generation services end up fighting for leads generated by third parties.

Those leads are sold to multiple competing businesses, and anyone buying them has to hope that:

1. the lead is qualified
2. their sales rep gets to the lead first
3. their sales rep closes the lead before the competition bombards them with other offers

You won’t have that problem with Advertoscope. We help businesses generate their own leads.

We’ll work with you to generate a detailed customer profile so you know the leads you receive are highly qualified and ready to close.

For more information, shoot Roy Harmon an email at [email protected].

www.advertoscope.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy, thanks for being with us. Uh, we try to bring a guest from all disciplines of business to help our solo preneurs entrepreneurs and small business listeners out there. So today we are, uh, we're grateful to have, uh, Roy Harmon, Roy, thanks for being with us. Uh, Roy is an experienced marketer with a demonstrated history of generating leads in the legal, political automotive, higher education software, and healthcare industries. His efforts have mobilized voters, entice customers and persuaded donors. Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. And, um, how's everything going this morning

Roy Harmon (00:51):

Going good. Thanks for having me. And thanks for, uh, reading out that long bio

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (00:55):

You bet. No, no, it's impressive. I'm glad that, you know, you've got a history across a lot of, uh, different industries, which that's always good to, you know, kind of know, I guess we could translate some work in, uh, some, some things work in one industry, some in the other, but it's always good to learn from different, uh, environments like that. So yeah, I guess we'll start with, uh, you know, kind of what brought you, what got you into marketing and, um,

Roy Harmon (01:25):

Yeah, so I started out, I actually went to law school and I thought I wanted to be a politician. And while I was in law school, I started doing political marketing, um, working with a, uh, with a consulting firm in South Carolina. And I worked for some campaigns and I found that I liked the marketing side of things even more than the political side. And I certainly didn't want to be a lawyer. So I graduated from law school and never looked back. I moved to DC, worked for, uh, the national rifle association doing social media work. And after a couple of years, when my wife would realize that we were going to have a baby, we decided we'd moved back here to be closer to home. And I realized that it really wasn't the political marketing thing. I liked. It was more of the marketing thing I got out of politics. And these days I'm, I couldn't be happier that I got out of politics. This is a good time to not be,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (02:30):

You got that ride. It's been brutal.

Roy Harmon (02:33):

And so, um, so along the way I, I worked for, um, an automotive ad agency, uh, some, you know, programmatic ad agency, but ended up in the software space, working with SAS companies and then startups more generally. And it's exactly where I want to be. So even though it have been nice not to pay off that, not to have to pay back a hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt, maybe I wouldn't be where I am if I hadn't, if I had had to do that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (03:09):

Right. Well, I know that one thing that you, um, that you focus on is lead generation, uh, correct. Right. Yeah. And that's so important. So what are some things that you do, excuse me for your current businesses that you work with? What are some, um, I guess some methods that are really working for lead generation. I know, you know, it's, it's always changing. You used to, you could send out some emails and people would respond. And now I think, you know, very few people check if they don't really know the name in the header of the email, usually you just get, uh, you know, deleted or pushed aside. So what are some things that are working?

Roy Harmon (03:51):

Yeah. So the big focus is inbound marketing and that's been the way to go, honestly, even before digital, the best way to go was to offer people value and to be very focused on what does the buyer need at each stage of the buying process rather than what you need, because you may need people to sign up for your email list that doesn't help them. Well, maybe it does, but if it does, you need to, you need to make sure that it's going to help them and you need to let them know how it's going to help. And I think a lot of people kind of feel like, Oh, I don't have time for inbound marketing because they think inbound marketing means that you're just waiting around for search engine rankings. Right. But the, what I do and what I find to be most effective is to take those inbound marketing principles and then apply those in your advertising efforts as well. So you can still provide value through an ad and, and that's where you're really able to supercharge those inbound efforts.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (05:01):

Yeah. And I think you may make a good point. Uh, you know, inbound is, um, just to me, inbound is on the buyer's time. They, if they need you at this point in time, because w as salespeople, as marketing people, you know, we have a need to make a transaction today, or we need to the, um, you know, we need the lead to come in today, but if you're not in the place to buy right at this moment, um, you're not, you know, nothing is gonna happen. And so I guess I take it from on the other part, when, when we're doing outbound, if you're not interested, you could be a potential customer, but I could pester you so much that, um, you know, I kind of turn you off. So I think that's a good distinction between the two, especially in this day in time, it, you know, outbound, I'm not going to say it doesn't work a of people still swear by it, but, um, it's gotten much, much more difficult.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (06:03):

And I think if, uh, you know, I'm like you, if we focus on these, uh, inbound opportunities, I think we not only make better customers and, uh, have happier people, but we can also, it's easier to build a pipeline. Would you say, because just like, if you saw my ad, if I keep it in front of you or whatever I'm doing to promote myself, if I keep in front of you and you're not ready today, you may not respond, but tomorrow, next week in a month, when you're ready, if I'm still in, that's the consistency of this is that if I'm still doing it, you're like, Hey, I've seen this guy's ad or whatever I'm doing. And, you know, go ahead and reach out and get ahold of me.

Roy Harmon (06:45):

Yeah. And w and S and the big thing that, that a lot of people sometimes miss is the, the value of just getting somebody into your funnel, getting them onto your email list. So having some, you know, for instance, if you're a, um, you say you're doing outbound sales, if you can get them to opt into something, right. Instead of just going right for the sale, or if you have an ad, and you know, that this ad is being sent to a very broad base of, of potential customers, people who somewhat matched your, you know, your ideal customer profile, but they're not, you don't know that they're ready yet. Right. Well, rather than focus on, Hey, get a demo when they may not be ready for a demo focus on something, the more people are going to be more likely to need or want, so that then they at least give you their email address. And then you have the ability to build a relationship with them, to send them more value through email. Right. Uh, and then instead of, instead of doing cold email, then you're doing warming, then you've got them, you know, you're, you can use your marketing automation to see what are they doing on your website. And when they do visit your pricing page, for example, well, then you send that over to your sales team and you say, Hey, these, these people are ready for you to make a pitch.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (08:12):

Yeah. I think that's important to monitor, um, you know, where w what people are trying to gather from your website, so you can target your next contact to that instead of just, you know, and I probably beat this to death on this show, but instead of the, Hey, you know, you called me last week, or I saw you hit our website, are you ready to buy yet? And you know, that just, I still get that today. And it just kind of, you know, it irks me a little bit. It's like, let's build this relationship. And, you know, I'm, I believe in value that we need to provide value instead of just a, Hey, are you ready? Because if they were ready to buy, they would have called us already. We wouldn't have to be reaching out to them. So, you know, even if we're doing those, uh, drip email campaigns, it's to, you know, to educate them, Hey, I saw this, this might be important for you, or, you know, you, and this is the other thing about having those conversations is we can hear what's important. So we can say, Hey, I heard you mentioned, this are, uh, like you said, you were on our web page, but, uh, one thing I was going to ask you to do before we get too deep, though, is backup. You mentioned marketing funnel. And just for people that may not really understand exactly what that has to, you know, what the components of that. Could you just go over that quickly?

Roy Harmon (09:32):

Sure. So the, the ideas that just like the funnel, you've got your people at the top of the funnel where it's a pretty broad group of people. And then by the end of the funnel, you're going to have less, so it gets narrow. So you've got your top of the funnel, which if you subscribed to HubSpot's, uh, explanation of the, of the buyer's journey, then the top of the funnel is where they're starting to realize they have a problem. They're starting to maybe look up, you know, what is this weird growth on my face? And then like that, uh, then, uh, in the middle of the funnel, they're actually starting to research things that they can do. This is a consideration stage, what they call it. And then finally, there's the bottom of the phone where they're trying to make a decision about whom or with what I'm ready to make a purchase. And the top you kind of bought in for, uh, so pump the flywheel on them. And, uh, I don't know if they'll have much success with that because the funnel's been around forever. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (10:48):

Yeah. And that w uh, uh, uh, the little bit I've heard about the flywheel effect is basically it's that once, um, I guess a little effort and momentum to get the flywheel turning the less effort, it keeps to make it turning faster and faster,

Roy Harmon (11:05):

And it get, it is a good illustration. And I don't think it's actually original to them. I think it's really just, they had so much success owning the, the term inbound marketing. Yeah. I mean, that is, if you look, I've been Mt. Marketing, HubSpot's coming up, and I think they're, I think they're you, they want to, they realize that it's hard to, harder to own the funnel while in fact, they're probably on the funnel tube at this point, if you want to an example of, uh, of marketing that works for them, but could not work for anybody for most people, HubSpot writes about everything these days, they're going to start writing about sports scores, uh, probably before long cause they're writing about things that are so out from what they do, just because they've got the budget, they've got the, the marketing automation in place that they don't care how high up you are in the funnel. If you, even, if you do anything involving marketing or sales, they want to get you in. And then there, they know that they can, they can convert you eventually. Yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (12:11):

No, I think that speaks basically to the power of content as well. I didn't, I guess that their theory is that, uh, if I'm not searching for, um, CRMs or, uh, you know, and then they do a lot more than the CRM, but I, I do use them for that, but if you're not searching for their particular product, um, if you're reading something else they're writing about, then they can, uh, you know, they make that connection where, you know, at least you start having some name recognition. So I think in, let's talk a little bit about the, the, the importance of content and good content in this whole process.

Roy Harmon (12:52):

Yeah. It's, it's huge. And it's really, I, you can see the, if you start out with maybe some thin content, I worked with a company called fusion web clinic. And when I started out there, there was, it was, there were, there was content that was clearly designed to check those boxes of, you know, here, let's talk about the problem here. Let's talk about some solutions. Let's try to rank for this keyword, but they were all very short. They were very unoriginal and so nothing was really happening. Yeah. Then as soon as we started to create this content that spoke to each stage of the buyer's journey, multiple personas, multiple, um, you know, decision makers, influencers, different people who would be, uh, potentially making a decision. We saw huge growth. Um, I mean, obviously we're doing other things as well, but our, we made a huge focus on content marketing and the, uh, ARR went up by 245%.

Roy Harmon (14:04):

Oh, wow. Of course, here, as we were building out this content and then marketing the content based on the buyer's journey. So instead of just saying, let's find some broad Facebook audience and send all our content to that, we would have a broad audience that was, uh, people who we thought they may, they may be a good fit. Then we'd have an another, uh, campaign within that. That would be remarketing only to people who had actually visited our website. And then within that remarketing for people who had visited the website, but then also our consideration stage content. So they, we knew there were a little deeper and once they went to our pricing page or signed up for a demo or, you know, things like that, then we knew, okay, let's start really promoting our product in the, in the ads. Let's start pushing them to, to sign up for, um, sign up for a demo or push them to get on a phone call, discovery, call, whatever.

Roy Harmon (15:10):

Right. Um, and so that's where the advertising comes in. So the content is, is key, but it's, you know, it's, especially these days, SEO is just getting harder and harder. Google makes is giving more and more space to ads and less and less space store Gaynor Russo. So you really have is that you can get eyeball and square feet. That's temperate, CHADS, all these different platforms. They give you a great opportunity to do that. And if you use the buyer's journey and you create your content in a way that's buyer centric and focused on getting value to your prospects, it's all going to fit together in a way that's going to increase your sales velocity because you're edgy. It was, they go, you're being people who are when they're actually ready to buy. Um, and then you're also generating more demand. So it really, it's gonna, it's going to help you out in every level.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (16:14):

Yeah. And since that content, uh, stays out there, you know, depending upon where we post it, it lives, you know, basically forever, it will keep working for you. And I think one thing that we had talked about, you know, uh, the other day is that, uh, the other nice thing about the, uh, the inbound and doing this is that we can meet the, well, not only meet the buyer at the stage of the journey that they're at, but we can meet them at the time of day where they're at too. And, you know, we were talking like, uh, you know, I was working kind of late the other night, and then I'm doing a little Christmas shopping. And so, you know, it was like 10, 10 30, um, on a, um, somebody's website, looking at something or reading this or that. And, and so if we have that content out there and we're, we have a really good inbound program that works 24 hours a day, versus, you know, if I would've gotten a sales phone call at 10 30 at night from this company, I probably wouldn't have been too happy with them, but, or, you know, w could they have hit me with an email at that right time.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (17:20):

So you know, that, and it needs to be a combination. I get that, but this is the importance of building that base with this. Uh, the, the inbound portion, you know, can work for you 24 hours a day. Right. The other thing that you mentioned, you know, Facebook and ads is it's important to know where your customer lives, I guess, you know, trying to build the back in the day. I don't know if they still say this, but the Abbey of you're an avatar of your customer, who are they? Where do they hang out? Because, um, and it changes it's changed a lot. I think that, you know, 10 years ago there was a younger crowd on Facebook. And I think the, you know, because of all the parents and grandparents are on there, I think some of the, some kids are in the, uh, you know, in the last few years they kind of moved away from it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (18:17):

But then now I heard from a tick tock. Yeah. Yeah. It's all there Tik TOK. But I heard from another younger person, 22, 23, the other day that maybe that they're starting to come back to Facebook again. So it's always changing, but the point is that you really need to sit down and figure out where these people live. And we were just looking up some stats on Pinterest yesterday, and it's incredible, you know, like 70%, 80% women are who use that. And then, you know, all these different platforms, they can tell you who their main groups are. They can tell you education, income, a lot of information if you'll just research it.

Roy Harmon (19:03):

I mean, well, so, and that's a great point as far as the research goes, because any, you never know really until you do the research or even actually run a test. Uh, and just as an example, like, so Pinterest is primarily female, but at the same time, depending on what you're doing and, uh, you know, maybe you have it, you've really, you're looking for a new opportunity because you're already doing, you got all the low hanging fruit. Yeah. It could potentially work. Uh, but just as an example, I know my father-in-law gets on Pinterest all the time because a lot of people put home improvement projects and they'll like, or they'll build a deck or a fire pit and they'll have that on them. And, but then it, you know, kind of goes back, you got to prioritize, you usually want to start out with something like Google search, if there's, uh, if there's going to be Byron tin out there, that's the best place to go, go ahead and scoop that up.

Roy Harmon (20:03):

Yeah. But really eventually you get to the point where you, as you're building this lead generation machine and, uh, and nurturing the leads and closing leads. Well, eventually you get to the where, okay. We need more leads. Yeah. We, uh, it's kinda like, um, you know, who wants, you have to get out in the oil sands to get, uh, to get more oil, you know, when you've, you're, you're pumping it all out of the ground and stuff, but now it's worthwhile to go out and get it out of the sand. Um, that might make sense to you as being X there's. I don't know if everybody will get, get that reference, but, you know, it gets to the point where it makes sense to go somewhere where it's harder to get them, because at that point, that's where you have to go for growth. Yeah. Basically it just costs you a little

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (20:48):

Bit more to extract it into it, harder to, you know, you have to work a lot harder to find those leads once you get to that point. But yeah, you're right about that. So, um, yeah. And the, um, and that's the other thing I was gonna, I kind of lost my train of thought, but just think, thinking that, you know, these are always our strategies and processes. We always need to be looking at updating because we can't just, everything is not just always the same things are changing. Like you said, if we've pulled low hanging fruit from one place, then we have to kind of look around to see, you know, what is that next stop for us? And that's where, uh, you know, really having a plan and it being, you know, a plan is not like a railroad track with no room to move. I mean, you know, you have to be able to revise it, to keep it up to date. So, you know, that's an important aspect of this as well.

Roy Harmon (21:49):

Yeah. This is the marketing is definitely not an industry where you can sit back and relax.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (21:56):

Right? Yeah. Cause once you, uh, uh, my opinion is once you push a campaign out there, you almost have to, you know, rethink this, maybe not quite for the very next one, but you know, pretty soon you have to start really rethinking, you know, what is our next step here? And, you know, you can't just keep doing the same thing over and over and over and expect to continue to grow

Roy Harmon (22:21):

Well. And then they're going to keep coming out with new channels. There'll be new social media platforms for tweeners to dance on and all kinds of crazy things coming out, you know, who knows what it'll be, what will be next, but you've gotta be ready to leverage those opportunities and try. I mean, um, and I've been, I've been fortunate to have, um, a lot of clients who've been willing to experiment like when, um, Snapchat geofilters first came out, those sponsored geofilters actually had a, um, Alexis dealership group that was willing to do that and have a, uh, sponsored geofilter. And, you know, you find out in a lot of cases that didn't work for them, but it was, you know, we did it in a very controlled way and having those kinds of pilot programs and, and try things out, that's the way to really get ahead. Right. You know, once you've got your groundwork in place and you're, you're actually profitable, you can start trying to be, you can be the one to find the next big thing and try to get ahead of your competitors rather than just an neck and neck, or, you know, if you happen to be the Pepsi, to somebody else's Coke, you know, you, you need to be really on alert for new ways to get ahead.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (23:47):

Yeah. And that, that's a good point too, that we need to think about, uh, you know, as we're looking at the different channels and we're looking at content and we're, uh, you just have to think about all the noise out there already, and the people that are in your same space that, uh, you know, are bombarding consumers with the same information basically. And it's like, how do you differentiate yourself? Uh, you know, another thing, uh, talking about content is, uh, pictures, you know, pictures, videos, be sure, and, you know, implement them in your strategies because I've, I've always been told that, you know, you can write a text, let's just say, you know, you're doing a, a post on a Facebook, you can do text it's all right. But if you put a picture on that, it's like leaving breadcrumbs. And if you do a video it's like leaving chocolate covered bread crumbs.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (24:46):

So it, uh, you know, it just enhances it. You know, somebody pointed out to me not long ago, too, that not only is it just as it kind of the algorithms work better for you, but you just take up more space too. If you think about your little text box versus the picture and how it widens out that space to get somebody's attention. So they're just all, all those little things that we always need to remember, you know, to try to stand down in another, I guess I'll pose this as a question, but you know, what I always try to tell people to do is be authentic with those pictures and with the videos and to, um, make it, make them of yourself, of your company, of your equipment, of your stuff, where people can get to know you, people want to buy from people that they like, people that they trust people that they feel they relate to. And so if you, you know, if you're a big dog lover and you have a dog, it's, it's always good to put in there because dog lovers will relate to that. But so, you know, as again, I'm kind of posing that as a question. That's, that's kind of been the theory for me up to this point. So what are your thoughts on that?

Roy Harmon (25:59):

Yeah, I think that authenticity, I think authenticity is great and part and parcel of that is having a, a personality, having a, a real, trying to be unique and your brand and not do what everybody else is doing. Um, one of my clients is actually a more serious product for, uh, basically for large resellers of, uh, basically it's for like huge IP companies. And, but the CEO of the company is a funny guy. He, he likes to joke around and what they're doing is they're replacing something that's very, uh, sort of an old way of doing things where people will cut copy and paste things back and forth from Microsoft word and XL. And now they're doing thing they're doing this, they're automating it. Okay. And so since this guy is a funny guy and he was, uh, another one of the clients I've had where I've been lucky that they're willing to try things, we did, uh, we must've done like 30 or 40 social media posts that were black and white graphics instead of cup because has been colored graphics and usually pictures of their product, which I don't, you know what I mean, offer product and that interesting look at.

Roy Harmon (27:22):

So we have black and white pictures and they were old pictures, like real pictures. And then we just would do stuff with them and ride something funny on them. And the engagement was huge and people would see them and ask about them, you know? So it, it makes people they're able to relate to your brand. And even if they're not funny people, or they're not, you know, whatever your personality is, it lets them know that you're a real, you're a real person, or at least it feels as though, you know, your company is made up of real people. And they're just going to give them a lot more of a warmer feeling towards your brand.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (27:58):

Yeah. And that's a huge evolution, you know, back in the day when the internet started, you know, it was buttoned up professional, don't let your personality show through. And I think that's one thing that has been a positive evolvement is that, you know, we're getting to know the people behind the, the business people, which, you know, that's awesome. Cause like I said, we want to do business with like people and we want to do people, you know, business with people we like, so it's always good to, you know, cause I was working with the company long, long ago that was redoing their website and you know, they had a bunch of these stock photos. I'm like, you know, just, just make it personal, take some pictures of, you know, the CEO, the staff, they have a lot of, you know, trucks and equipment in a warehouse take pictures that, you know, people would be interested to see how, you know, kind of the behind the scenes so important.

Roy Harmon (28:50):

You heard that story about, um, Oh gosh, now I'm not gonna be able to remember his name is the science of advertising guy. Uh, anyway, he had a, he's like a genius advertiser way back when, and he started figuring out how to like, if you're good in advertising, things like that. But he went to, uh, the Schlitz brewery and they were showing them out around the brewery and they said, you see, we triple distill this and we clean these, you know, three times a day, we do this and we do that. And he said, well, that's your advertisement right there. And they're like, why everybody does that? And he says, yeah, but they don't show people that people know that. And so it's like these things, the steam totally run of the mill to you, you know, you can go in and actually highlight those and say what we did.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (29:44):

Yeah. Yeah. And there's some geeks like myself, I'm admitted that, you know, I always want to know what's behind the, you know, what's behind the curtain. I want to know how things work. So it's, it's of some interest just to, you know, do a pan of the, you know, of the brewery. I don't know. There used to be a couple here around in Texas that, you know, they had tutors because, well, I think the adults went there because they gave them free samples, but the, you know, the kids loved it because you got to see all the cool gauges and everything else. So yeah. And again, it's just being different. May, it may not work for you and your business, your industry, but you know, I think there's things that, uh, we need to try to be a little different and that kind of brings up one thing I meant to ask you earlier was, uh, the importance of AB testing and not, uh, you know, if you have a thousand dollar ad budget, you don't just have an idea and just lay it all out there and do one thing. But can you talk a little bit about the importance of AB testing?

Roy Harmon (30:45):

Yeah. So I've got a little bit of a, maybe not an unorthodox opinion on AB testing. Um, so when it comes to AB testing, I think that it's so difficult to reach to the sample size that you would need to reach to get meaningful results. And there are so few opportunities batch E um, do that in a way that's not gonna lead to sample pollution. Like for instance, if you run a Google ad and I remember when I was working at an ad agency, there were like, you have two ads for every single one. And I would say, well, okay. And so then the ad we'd, we'd get to the ball where we got a hundred impressions and I'd say, and they'd say, why are you still running this ad when you got a hundred impressions? And this one is a one point, 1% click through rate, and this one is one person.

Roy Harmon (31:46):

Well, it was like one other person clicks the next ticket. All of a sudden it's like flipped the other way. Um, and so I just, I think that there are definitely times where AB testing is important, but for most people, depending on the size of your budget, the sophistication of your team and what they can do as far as data analysis, you really have to think hard about what are you going to get results that you actually, that are actionable? Because if you run a, if you run for instance, a display campaign and you don't know for sure whether people saw both, for instance, I mean, so maybe they, maybe they click one more than the other, but you don't know that they only saw the other one. Right. Right. It's very hard to have a control group really in any kind of digital advertising or, you know, some, some website tools make it a little bit easier, but even there, they typically rely on cookies.

Roy Harmon (32:51):

So somebody deletes their cookies then, um, you know, so that, I just, I guess I'm just, I'm a little skeptical about the idea. I know that most people look for it. So you kind of sometimes just have to be more for those what people want to see. Um, and then also there are polls tomorrow, you know, there's, there's people smarter than me who say, I've heard people say both things. So I think that'll matter. But at the same time, I think you really have to make sure that you're not just spinning your wheels because especially for smaller companies with smaller budgets, you've got to make the most out of every minute, every dollar. Um, and, uh, so, you know, it's just, I think something to be really thoughtful about. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (33:35):

Well, and maybe that's the thing is if you, you know, the smaller teams may be just to put a lot more thought in before you launch the campaign may be the way to go then instead of doing the AB testing. Yeah. Because I never really thought about that is, you know, did, did I see both ads and one drew me in or did I only see one? It would, I, I may have, if I had seen the other, I may have still clicked on it too. So yeah, that, that's a pretty good, a pretty good argument against that as well. All right, Roy. Well, thanks so much for being here, taking time out of your day to be with us. Um, what, what is a tool that you use in your daily life, either your professional or personal life, either a tool, a habit, something that you do every day that you just couldn't do without,

Roy Harmon (34:25):

I really like free writing, um, and stood, you know, the side, if you just, you write and you don't learn stuff, stop to edit your stuff, don't, uh, you don't do it. You're just right. And you don't stop. And so a lot of times I'll do that just to do it, but I, especially if I have a problem, I'll do it. And I actually, um, I made a, a free tool that I use to help me with it, where it turns off where I can't even see what I'm typing so that I, um, so that I can just go and I'm not, I'm a little bit less, uh, likely to try to like go and backspace on a, you know, something a type of, because I can't see the type of bread. So even though if I'm fixing it or not interesting, and I have issues, it's helped me solve problems, it's helped me come up with ideas. Um, so I would say like for people who need to be innovative or creative, or just need to solve problems, I would say, do you know, do free writing. And there's all kinds of accidental. Genius is a short book on it, but there's, you can find how to do it for free all over the internet. And, um, and there's actually a really good book called inside the box. That's unrelated to free writing, but all about innovation, creativity. So I'll just throw that out there.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (35:49):

Okay. Yeah, because I spend most of my time backspacing to correct my misspelled words.

Roy Harmon (35:55):

Yeah. I know. I might've said it. It's really hard for me to do that. Um, but, but I, I do it

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (36:05):

All right. Well, thanks again for taking time to be with us. So tell us, uh, before you go, who is your client, what you can do for them and of course, how they can reach out and get ahold of you.

Roy Harmon (36:17):

Yeah. So I work for, um, generally startup companies, SAS companies, um, you know, anybody who's typically in the earlier stages of trying to figure out, um, how do we generate leads or people who are in that middle stage, uh, or even they've been around for awhile. And they just aren't getting the results that they want, or they, they feel like things are inefficient or they're just pipeline isn't full enough. Um, so generally software companies, but, um, you know, I really, I, I just pitched a game company, uh, the other day. So we'll see, uh, um, I really, I find that the principals are just, so they cross so many industries as you know, like I've seen in all these different industries that I've worked in. Right. Um, and so my company is called it Virta scope. And, um, and so I write about lead generation there and I've got a actually, I've got a free sales call template on there that, um, that they can, without even downloading, it's just something that I have there on the website without, um, an email or anything like that. So I'd love to see people on the Virta scope.com and, um, I've really have had a great time talking to you. Thanks for having me on

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (37:42):

You bet. And we'll be sure to include all that in the show notes as well. All right, until next. And we'll try to get you back on, like I said, this is always evolving. So, uh, you know, in the, in the short period of time, we'll get you back on here and kind of get some updates and go over. There's so much stuff to cover. We, you know, we could talk for hours and hours, but, um, we'll get you back and do a follow-up.

Roy Harmon (38:06):

All right. Well, great. I loved him. Yup.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Lead Generation, Provide Information of Value to Gain the Opt-In (38:09):

All right. Well, everybody, thanks a lot for listening. Again. Y'all can find [email protected]. We're also on all the major platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, uh, Spotify. If we're not on the platform that you use, please reach out. We'll be glad to get it added. Also be sharing, share with your friends. And, uh, we always look for, uh, you know, topics that people are having some issues with. So don't hesitate to email or, uh, get with us on social media, let us know some things, uh, some pain points that you may be having, that we could find some guests to get on and help you out

Speaker 3 (38:49):

Until next time, take care of yourself.

 

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Learn How to Scale Your Business For Success with Jan Cavelle

Jan was running a small business that she started at her kitchen table. While selling furniture her manufacturer quit overnight. She was then put in a position to own and run a manufacturing company. She found that sometimes bigger isn't always better. We have to scale for success and not let our business outgrow our time, ability, and resources. Jan explains scaling for success.

About the guest:

Jan is an entrepreneur from the UK who has a few decades of running micro and small businesses behind her.  She is very familiar with all the challenges that go with that, having started one from the kitchen table when her children were small and she was a single mother, to go on to build that into a multi-million turnover business.

She has known success, winning regional and national awards and known failures too, including ending up burning out.

Jan regrouped, deciding to follow her childhood ambition to write.  She has put together a book aimed at helping entrepreneurs to grow their businesses during the big leap of 1-10m.  The book is called Scale For Success and it is being published by Bloomsbury.  The UK publishing date is 4th February 2021 but it is available now for pre-order from Amazon and other good bookstores (details of those on my web site)

www.jancavelle.co.uk  

twitter.com/@jancavelle             

www.linkedin.com/in/jancavelle/

www.facebook.com/JanCavelleWriter

https://www.instagram.com/jan.cavelle.scaleforsuccess/

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy, of course we are the podcast that brings, uh, we bring guests from all disciplines to try to help our entrepreneurs, solo, preneurs, and small businesses. A lot of times, uh, their thing, uh, you know, new and exciting things out there. And sometimes we just have, uh, we have things that we want to try to solve, and we don't know where to turn. So hopefully, uh, we've had a guest on that can help you, or we will have a guest on in the near future. If not, please reach out to me. I'd be glad to, uh, you know, kind of target some guests based on some issues that the, um, the listeners are having. But today, uh, we are fortunate enough to have Jan Cavell. Uh, Jan is an entrepreneur from the UK who has decades of running micro and small businesses behind her.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (00:54):

She is very familiar with the challenges that go with that. Having started one from the kitchen table when her children were small and she was a single mother to go on to build that into a multi-million turnover business. She has known success winning regional and national wards and known, uh, and known failures too, including ending up burning out, uh, Jan regrouped decided to follow her childhood ambition to write. She has pulled together a book aimed at helping entrepreneurs to grow their businesses during the big leap of one to 10 million. The book is called scale for success and is being published by Bloomsbury. The UK publishing date is the 4th of February, 2021, but it is available now for pre-order from Amazon and other good bookstores. And you can also find details at her website at www dot Jan, J a N C a V E L L E dot C o.uk. Of course, we will publish all that in the show notes as well, but Jan, welcome to the show and thanks for being here,

Jan (02:03):

Roy, I signed to you and I have to say that's one of the best introductions that anybody's ever done. That's brilliant. Thank you.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (02:10):

I'm afraid I didn't hit all the high points, but we got the good ones. And you know, um, when we first met, what really interested me about you was the scaling, you know, the scaling for success, not only your history where you've been, and uh, we'll talk a little bit about that, but it's so important to think about, uh, how we scale. And I, I talked to a lot of businesses and that's where they run into kind of that gap is, you know, started in my garage or I had this hobby, uh, I was, uh, had a trade craft that was good at, I ended up just, you know, buying a truck and servicing, but never really gave much thought to how we kind of move past, you know, you know, you referenced the one to 10 million, but sometimes even past that, you know, first, second, third employee. So, uh, but before we get all into that, why don't you just tell us a little bit about your story and how you got here and, uh, you know, leading up to writing the book.

Jan (03:12):

Wow, wow. Um, toggle two. I will attempt to do that. Uh, as, as you rightly said, I have had a lot of micro businesses and then I found myself as a single mom and thought it's time to kick on a bet and I'd better take it more seriously. And, um, uh, partly, partly out of intention, partly by chance. I ended up scaling a business really because, um, I, I did want to take it more seriously and grow more better. Um, but I really didn't know what I was doing, but, um, I, I sort of, uh, I was selling, um, furniture to interior designers, um, because selling was something I could do from home while I looked off the children and I was boring, a gentleman Southern him. And, um, then I started having a friend who finished it for me cause I couldn't get it finished anywhere.

Jan (04:08):

Uh, well, um, in the corner of bone. And so that was okay. And then not to call it a bit busy. So I got a small farm unit, um, uh, they're not by pure chance. Again, the people who were making the financial, um, the owner decides to retire in a hurry. I mean, literally overnight one Friday afternoon, he knocked on my door and said, I'm stopping. Oh, well, and I know, I know it's crazy. I mean, two-part crazy. Um, and I still, you know, you better come in and have a chat about this. Um, so, uh, I've fed him tea and said, calm down a second. You know, I I'd rolled, need a, an income and I've got people waiting for this furniture. And I said, I don't care. Um, and I said, well, I do. And so we had several words over a several cups of tea.

Jan (04:59):

The long short of it was that I agreed that he could retire that weekend. I would pay him on and never, never for his business. So I ended up with a making bets as well. Wow. And, uh, it's literally a sudden assault, I mean, within a couple of hours. Yeah. So it took me a little while to digest this farm that I then had to two tiny businesses. Um, I had a fairly long, long drive between the mother and my kids' school, the opposite direction. Um, you know, the whole thing was clearly a nice idea, but poorly impractical. So I thought we'd better get a proper unit. Um, uh, the only thing I could find was this rolled overlord factory, but Arthur blots, okay. It's in the right place geographically. And so I signed a lease and then of course, I didn't know anything about factories had never had a factory in my life. So it cost a fortunate kid hard. Um, I was in so much trouble just to pay off the debt I had to really, really start scaling. So that's how I got into scanning by pure disaster. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (06:06):

Yeah. And, you know, as we talked, uh, uh, in our brief conversation that we have few days ago, I think that was one thing that you did bring out was, um, you know, obviously you were thrust into this with your situation, then that is not the way I like to end my weeks with somebody laying that one on me on Friday afternoon. But, uh, that, you know, you need to make sure that this is really what you want and, and I'm talking about scaling, you know, if you're a one man show, you have to think about everything that goes with scaling and make sure that you really, really want that you're not doing it just because you think it's the thing that needs to be done or you or everybody else is doing it.

Jan (06:46):

Absolutely. And there is this huge thing I know, which I think is even worse because entrepreneurship Scott's sort of fashionable and everybody thinks big is good and big isn't necessarily good at all. You know? I mean, I know, I shouldn't say that. I was like, you know, I mean written a book about scaling, but, but it isn't, you know, you can have a really good business that suits you, it suits your lifestyle, it may bring you a good income and it would be totally wrong. Just go, why spoil it? Right. Um, you know, it's right. For some people in some businesses and it's really important that people make that distinction you're quite right. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (07:22):

Yeah. Because it, you know, and we'll take your example. You know, the furniture building part is that, uh, I may be a good craftsman and can build a really nice piece of furniture, but all of a sudden, if I've got employees I have to manage, I've got multiple equipment, maybe multiple locations, I've got the books taxes. I mean, you get all of this other stuff that multiplies when you, you know, increase or when you scale and you, you really have to be ready for that. You have to plan for it too. I mean, because it, that is where I see and, you know, you talk to about burnout and that's where I see a lot of people get burned out. They love what they do, or they love what they did. They don't necessarily love that business. End of it.

Jan (08:10):

That's fairly true. I mean, I actually stayed loving that business for a very long time after that. Um, but, uh, it did catch my pitch. Eventually when you fall out of love with the business, you walked Godard rat, um, keeping going if is as stupid as growing for growing sake. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (08:30):

Well, and that's why we, you know, that's exactly why I started this show is because, you know, just talking to people that somehow they had fallen into a business and then it grew, some of them had very good fortune and it grew, and then they had all the complications that go with that. And so, you know, bringing on guests like yourself to try to help solve these problems, that's really the Genesis of this show. I mean, I'm selfish the fact that I get to learn from all of my awesome guest as well, but, um, you know, it's a real thing. And so you have to think about that. And, um, you know, I think one thing that you've mentioned too, uh, before is that, so what we need to do is surround ourself with a good support team, mentors and advisors. And let me preface that. I'll let you say it, but let me preface it by, that's not your mother. I mean, my mother is a good business person, but, but she, uh, you know, she might not, uh, she may not be as blunt and as truthful as what I would need her to be in business decisions. So I think we have to find people that we trust that we respect their opinion too.

Jan (09:42):

Yeah. It's a real challenge actually, to find that particularly now, because the market, so of crowded with support systems for entrepreneurs, I mean, you only have to bridge to get 64 proposals from a business coach generally. Um, but, um, it's, it's really, really hard to find the right support system. And with, with respect to business coaches who have awesome, very good ones, I, you know, I think more entrepreneurs I've spoken to have got more help from other entrepreneurs or people who started in the same time as them and cannot share, which is as well. I ended up getting support from actually people who are going through the same thing or had gone through the same thing. I think finding people to talk to in your sector who have, you know, I've done find the problems, be it manufacturing, for example, you know, manufacturing they'll have a few problems are special to it. Um, um, you know, only manufacturing people would understand that. Um, but you know, that's the same with every sector. Um, and again, your mum wouldn't understand unless you've been in the same sector.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (10:49):

Exactly well, and, uh, you know, I think in the past we've always felt like, um, a board was for, you know, bigger, larger companies. And I think that, you know, as entrepreneurship or, you know, solo preneurs, smaller businesses have, you know, really, um, become the norm now that we are understanding that we do need those advisors surrounding us. And, and it's, you know, we can have more than one. We just have to have a team that we trust. And, you know, I know some guys that, um, they are in like businesses and, you know, they go eat breakfast once a month and they talk about things a lot of valuable. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Because then it's like, you know, one guy was saying he had a, you know, an employee issue and another one said, Hey, I just had that same thing. And these are some things I learned from that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (11:45):

So yeah, it can be invaluable to surround yourself with, um, you know, others from the industry. And, you know, sometimes we, um, uh, we want to horde, uh, our industry or our knowledge or our business from others, but you know, what there, most of the time there's room for success for more than one company in, in an area. So we shouldn't necessarily worry that if me and Jan are competitors, that we can't both be successful if we were, you know, kind of talking about things. I mean, you have to be careful on the collusion side and not price setting. And, you know, I'm not talking about illegal stuff. I'm just talking about the business processes that we could survive in the same, uh, market and both be successful, but be able to talk about those things.

Jan (12:40):

I think that's true. I mean, I think there are, you know, I never to play one or two people who are sharp and would take advantage of that. Um, but you know, on the whole, people are straight and now willing to help you and looking to you for help and once worked together for the mutual. Good. Okay, great.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (13:00):

Yeah. And, and I think we, uh, you know, we draw, don't draw the line at just, uh, other entrepreneurs, but I think it's also important to surround ourself with other professionals, uh, CPAs lawyers, uh, you know, payroll people, if we get that big, because it's, you know, and I use this for an example quite a bit that, you know, my, uh, um, I'm a finance guy as well. And that's what I spent a lot of time in. And I could do my own taxes every year, but I don't. I take them to a lady, been doing them for years. She's a professional. She does that for a living. And so what it does, it allows her, she stays on top of these, you know, they get these tax advisories or bulletins that come out all through the year. So she's got this accumulated knowledge through the year that I'm not going to be able to sit down on January the second and think, okay, I've got to catch up on all the changes for this last year and feel like I could do a good job. And so again, it's just a, I think it's a justification that, you know, we need to choose experts in our field, just the way that we want people to choose us to work for them as experts in our field.

Jan (14:14):

I upset agree I'm in the good, it's good. Ex-pats as you rightly say, go on, you know, PD courses, um, keep up to date for Lakeland latest legislation. I mean, I don't know what it's like in the States, but I'm in the HR, um, legislation I've ahead of changes quicker than you can breathe and see the way you as a business, keep up with it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (14:36):

Yeah. Well, and with this pandemic, you know, I think it's made everything even, even shakier the HR side, the, uh, uh, tax. Yeah. Yeah. Cause there's going to be a lot of exceptions, a lot of different things and yeah, well, I don't want to get into this too deep, but they, they did, you know, I was hearing the, uh, this morning, they are in the States. They're saying that, you know, the question is now, can your employer force you to get this vaccination? That's just,

Jan (15:09):

I've got the same email this morning,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (15:12):

Huge debate going forward. If you can, uh, you know, people can get accepted anyway, that's just going to be, again, it's one of these things that we would need to seek guidance from somebody.

Jan (15:23):

I would indeed you'd need to surround yourself with experts on that one.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (15:28):

Once we kind of get our team in place, I guess we also want them to have the right mindset. We, um, if we do want to grow and we want to scale, we need to surround ourselves with a team that, um, kind of has not, they don't, they don't have to have that vision, but they can understand it and not hold us back as well.

Jan (15:48):

Yeah. I mean, as in team of team of employees or such, or, or small people who work for you who have shares or whatever. Yeah. Very much so. And it's that one, I think that comes up of the more people as baked you more business owners. I speak to that's the one that's the make or break that's for one that drives people to jump off cliffs or to celebrate. And, you know, it's so hard to get that right team, um, to get to, as you say, to get them to buy into, to some extent, um, and to be capable of growing with the business, you know, you can have people who've been there from the start and great, and, you know, uh, for example, good craftsman or something, but it doesn't mean to say that they're going to end up running a multi-million pound corporation. You know, they ain't got it in my neighborhood. They have no wish to either that changeovers really hard, really hard.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (16:45):

Yeah. That's a good, uh, an example of when I was younger, I worked for a major corporation here and the way that we, uh, chose our management, where, you know, if you'd been there the longest, or if you, you know, if they came out to some people and said, Hey, we were looking for a manager, does anybody in here want it? You know? And then yeah. And that just because somebody just will take the furniture example just because I'm an awesome craftsman and I can build a great piece of furniture that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to be a good manager over people who are building furniture. So there's a lot of predictive tests out there, you know, too. I think that's careful that we probably add that in is that, you know, if you want to bring these people along in a corporation, make sure that they are suitable for that job. Not just that they have, uh, a craft skill set to do the end job, but to make sure that they can manage people

Jan (17:40):

And they have to want to share. I mean, other craftsmen, for example, actually have no interest. They, they love what they do. They don't want to go and do something else and a manager, you know, they want to make furniture or whatever.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (17:52):

Right. So the other thing too, I think that we, um, want to take into consideration is systemization. And along with that can be delegation. I know some things that you've spoke about before are, uh, you know, we don't have to do it all. So we have to learn to delegate and we have to systemize when we can.

Jan (18:15):

Yeah, very much. So I have to let go of baby, but you know, it's interesting. That's a man. I call my, for a mansion to achieve as a felon, new book height, um, by, uh, called systemology on the awesome argues that, um, actually, I mean, he's right about this versus for sure. Um, for most entrepreneurs can't stand the idea of doing systems. And so they don't do vaguely know if they should do it, but don't do it right. And he argues that actually, if therefore, they are the most atrocious people to do, the system was ocean. They just need to do to, to map out for best customer journey once and then find out who's loves doing systems and, uh, business, um, and leave it to them, which makes a lot of sense to me. If I thought I could do that much better system.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (19:10):

Well, we don't think, um, I don't think we realize in our day to day activities, uh, the thing, the little things that we do. Um, so if you were to come and sit in my chair for a day, I could tell you the big stuff, but there are a lot of little bitty things that I do. And so, you know, when we talk about systemization is the very first thing is to write it down and, you know, have a, have a document that says, this is the process and the procedure. So, uh, number one, we can always be changing it and making it better. But also too, we have to have somebody new come in that seat. We can tell them exactly what, not just, I don't know, Joe did something and it just made it happen. We don't know what the magic was. So be sure and get that magic on paper.

Jan (19:59):

Absolutely. Because you know, people have their own lives and however wonderful. They aren't the, to the company, there are, they may come a time when they have to leave in a hurry. And if you've relied on them, because they're so early Lynch and you've never written it down, you're going to be absolute, it's dark. And it stops you growing as well. The moment you can ride it on you couldn't chip.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (20:21):

Right? Yeah. And I think it also gives us the chance to improve on it. If we really don't know what is going on, it's hard to improve that. Where if it's written down, we can see step one, two, three. Maybe we need to add something in there. So very important documentation. And, um, uh, you know, again, it lets us nurture that talent. We can show somebody the job description and say, this is what you're gonna do. You know, they may be like, uh, not, not for me

Jan (20:51):

At sat me isn't for me. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (20:53):

So I'm in delegation, you know, I think that's another thing that this is my baby. I've done everything. It's hard. I am not going to say that it's something that's easy to do, but that's where we get back to hiring good people, having processes and procedures in place. But we've got to be able to, to turn some authority over to other people,

Jan (21:17):

Upset, you have to like have that baby and not micromanage micromanage is for quickest Kellogg to their enthusiasm going in. If they fail on to valued on a trust edge and uninfused, you know? Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (21:32):

Yeah. Because we do, we kill that enthusiasm that, uh, if you're always telling me this is the way and no, no, no. Well, when I have a good idea, I'm just going to say like, you know what, I'm not doing that anymore. Cause it's just too much of a headache. And so, uh, you know, sometimes we're going to have good ideas. Sometimes we're gonna have bad, but we need to nurture that from our employees, if we want to grow and scale

Jan (21:56):

Couldn't agree more. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (21:59):

Yeah. So the, I guess the, the, the next last and biggest thing is we need to have an end game.

Jan (22:09):

Yeah. And so many people don't, they did, I never had bond. You know, I remember sitting in my office saying, you know, they'll have to drag me out of here. I love what I do. Um, but, uh, and, and you know, that, that, that those people who surface sort of take that approach of, you know, just go and doing it. Cause I love it. Um, they other people who, um, just say I'm about time to think about it, just, I'm going to think about it. I've got a unit we'll have to wait till next month it's and of course, next month now it becomes. Um, but the problem with that is it's a bit like your favorite employee who has something going on in their personal life. You don't know when life's going to hit you and it makes you sing. I am too tired of this. All of a sudden, or I have a personal prices or health crisis, or just, you know, for whatever reason you want to type life, life throws us curve balls. And if you haven't got that business into a state that you might be able to sell it, you know, all those years will be wasted and you'll be unable to take off and do whatever you want to do and get no benefit from it. You might even be lumbered with the DMS thing and not be able to get out it either.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (23:26):

Yeah. Two things come to mind is like you said, that something happens. And once the business starts going downhill, then nobody wants to buy it because it's, it's in a shambles, a number one, or you just you're going to sell it at a discounted rate. But the other thing I think I would, I can speak to from experiences, uh, the solo preneurs or the smaller businesses where it's built around one person. And they don't think that, um, if, if you don't nurture your other talent to come up, then what, what I've seen is at the end of time or at, you know, when it's time for the end game, that all the value is actually in the person that is leaving. And so, you know, it's like another company is not going to want to come in and pay anything because there's no value there. The value is the person who's leaving.

Jan (24:22):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and it does a really usual one. And I mean, I remember as, as I started to grow, I mean, there was somebody who wanted to come in with me or buy the business off me and he said to me, you know, cause you, you know, if you want to leave, forget it. So I'm not interested. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it, it did, it made me twice and, you know, realize that it's about six actually, that you have to make business run without you. You can't be the business. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (24:52):

Yeah. And you have to, you know, there has to be, you have to put your other people out in front of clients. So they know somebody else exists at that business and not just, uh, you know, think it's you. And, and it's sad because a lot of solo preneurs professionals, you know, they're in their practice. And then when they get to the end, they can't extract any value out of the practice, you know, for themselves in retirement, which that's kind of what they've always thought is I'm going to have this as my nest egg. And then unfortunately, it's just not

Jan (25:25):

So many people fall in step one. I mean, even people with quite big businesses, but, you know, because they're prepared and United still, they may have 20, 30 staff, but it still relies on well on them. There's no nest egg. That's awful. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (25:42):

Well, Jan, we appreciate you coming on. Uh, I usually don't harass my guests, but I was gonna say your, uh, uh, your accent sounds like that is a deep East, Texas accent.

Jan (25:56):

Ah, yeah. [inaudible] it's Texas.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (26:03):

So you're originally from Australia. Is that correct?

Jan (26:07):

No, my son is in Australia. My, um, well sort of personally a polyglot cause my grandma's was from Boston. Um, so I don't know if it's the whole accident you're picking up. I'll try back. But, uh, but yeah, Boston rolled to Burton, Texas and my father was a skull. So on my son is Australian. Interesting. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (26:33):

Well, if you don't mind tell everybody, uh, you know, kind of tell them a little bit about the book coming out, but if somebody else wants to get with you, um, you know, on trying to scale, you know, how can they reach out and get ahold of you?

Jan (26:47):

Yeah, please do. I mean, you know, I am very open to, um, somebody wants to send me an email, get in touch with a website. If you've got a, got an issue, I can't promise you I'll help, but I promise you I'll try. And, um, you know, just leap on that website, um, which we can, one day is going to put him on notes, China, UK, um, um, uh, I'll see what I can do.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (27:12):

Okay, great. Well again, uh, so, uh, one thing I failed to ask you there too was, so what is a tool that you use in your daily life? It can be personal professional, it's a tool, a habit or ritual, but something that you do every day that you just couldn't do without? Um,

Jan (27:35):

No, of course like so many people on a practical basis, it serves him around, you know, here we are on it, not right now. Um, so, you know, that's become pretty indispensable because, and talking to people for a such my book came all to my G now everything is zoom, zoom, zoom. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (27:55):

Yep. Nope. I understand. And it's, uh, it's, you know, I think it's been good to keep us connected. I don't feel, um, you know, I'm very fortunate. I don't feel isolated. I get to talk to awesome people like you every day, but, um, it's been a way to stay connected are, you know, we did our Thanksgiving this year over zoom. Uh, my, you know, both of our mine and my girlfriend's parents are both elderly. You know, my mom would kill me if she heard me say, call her elderly, but you know, they there around that eighties and, um, you know, we just couldn't take a chance. So yeah. Zoom has been a, it's been a blessing in a lot of ways, uh, getting through this pandemic. Right.

Jan (28:35):

I agree. I wouldn't deal with that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Scale Your Business For Success (28:39):

All right. Well, thanks again for taking time out of your day to be with us. We certainly appreciate it again. You can find us at www dot the business of business podcast. We're also on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. We will be posting, uh, we're also in all the major, uh, uh, podcast platforms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, uh, Spotify, and a couple more of the big ones that we've just gotten on. If we're not on the, uh, something that you listened to please reach out. We'd be glad to, uh, submit it form, but, uh, please share. And, um, give us any feedback that you may have, and you can also find a recording of this video on YouTube. All right, Jan, until next time, take care of yourself. Okay.

 

www.jancavelle.co.uk  

www.thebusinessobusinesspodcast.com

 

 

Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why You Should Care? with Bobby Machado

We kick off this new Digital Marketing Series on SEO with an introduction to SEO. Who should care and why they should care. Bobby talks about why we want to focus on SEO for the long-run approach to driving traffic to our website. SEO is a must if you have a business webpage. Check back for Episode 2 On-Site Strategies to Increase Visibility.

About our guest:

Bobby is the CEO and Lead Strategist at Signa Marketing, CEO at Sector 7 Apps, and a partner at Quick Job Products with his brother Cesar Machado.

As a kid, Bobby always had an interest in business such as providing landscaping services, training horses, or reselling “Tang” back to his parents during 5 grade. His experience in the digital world began when he taught himself how to code websites in high school, which turned into a way for Bobby to make money on the side while racing motocross, which remains as one of his passions to this day.

After he stopped competitively racing at the age of 22, Bobby decided to focus his full-time efforts in web development as a freelance web developer, which then introduced him into the digital marketing world. Being the analytical and creative type, Bobby developed a passion for digital marketing and data.

After working at an automotive digital marketing agency as a paid media specialist, managing a little over $300,000 per month in Google Ad spend for several auto dealerships in the United States, Bobby combined my passion for business and launched Signa Marketing.

Signa Marketing currently makes up about 70% of Bobby’s time and he enjoys hosting a Signa Marketing show named “Blueprint”, in which he answers any and all user-submitted questions on how to market their business online. New episodes are released on Signa Marketing’s YouTube Channel.

Overall, Bobby enjoys being immersed in anything “digital” that has a positive impact on people and humanity.

www.signamarketing.com
www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy. Hey, we're going to introduce you again today to Bobby Machado. He is with Cigna marketing. We are going to start our second series. It's digital marketing series, and we're going to talk about SEO. We'll have about four episodes. That'll help step us through this process and already in our pre-show talk, I'm already feeling beat down. Uh, this is one area that I know that I struggle with, and I know a lot of people do, you know, wondering what is the right thing to do? Um, how can we do it better? And so Bobby, we appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us and talk about this. This is going to be a great series.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (00:40):

Oh, absolutely. No happy to do these. These are always

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (00:43):

Fun. Okay. Well, great. Well, um, I guess let's talk about, you know, in this first episode we're just going to get with the basics, is that, you know, what is SEO? Why should we even care about it? And some of us that have trouble spelling SEO, you know, how, how are we going to be able to carry this out? So we'll just let you start at the very beginning and go from there.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (01:05):

Awesome. Sounds great. Yeah. So, so why SEO? So, uh, at the end of the day, if someone has a question, a need, uh, especially if it's an urgent need or anything like that, uh, it is, I mean, almost second nature now to just go to a search engine to find your answer or the help that you're seeking for. And so that's why from a business perspective, um, as business owners, if we're looking for really efficient ways to get in front of our end consumer and, uh, in a channel where there's high urgency, we need, you know, that lead is hot or warmer in that sense. Uh, then that's why search engine optimization can be so powerful for a business because you're actually getting in front of, uh, users organically that are actually actively searching for your product or service or the answer to the issue. Um, and so that's why SEO is so important and why it can be so beneficial for businesses.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (01:55):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think also too, you know, maybe 10, 12, 15 years ago, it was much more simple because, you know, you, you may be one of the few people in your space and I think this is why it's grown to be so important is that there's just so much noise out there that we have to be able to separate our good content that's meaningful from just the noise and the clickbait of other things that are out there.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (02:22):

Oh yeah, for sure. And, and search engines. I mean, that's why they're there, they're always constantly making updates to the algorithm now literally on a daily, even testing portions of it and so on, because their end goal is to meet the end consumer and the end consumer is to start. Sure. Yeah. So the more relevant and Quaker, uh, that these answers can be given to an end user. And that's how the search engine knows it's doing a great job. And so, um, and it's always looking at human behavior of how, how us humans are, you know, trying to figure out these issues or find the right provider or stuff like that, that they can better match, you know, our though. So yeah, but that's why SEO is so important because, but it's also why, you know, a lot of businesses that get into SEO, uh, find it maybe difficult to get rankings and stuff like that from because, uh, because yeah, I mean, it's, it's a market a lot. There's only 10 positions on the first page of Google and everyone's fighting for them. So, uh, so that's why it can get pretty competitive. And so it comes down to understanding, you know, what are the key factors that when you be focused on as business owners to make sure that we're placing ourselves in the best position to attain rankings.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (03:30):

Yeah. And I think it's a good time to say this, and we will probably mention it through all these episodes that you really need to listen to honest, uh, ethical people like Bobby when they give you advice, because I think they call it black hat, but, um, if I'm wrong, but there's so many people that will try to tell you how to take a shortcut or how to buy your way, not, not actually purchased the top rankings, but actually do some other things to try to help you gain SEO typically. And I'll let you expound on this Bali, but typically those things will backfire on you and you will end up in Google jail where they just won't send you any traffic.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (04:12):

Yeah. Well, there's certain tactics like, um, I mean, there's, I've been like geographic farms or stuff like that, where you get a bunch of, you know, inflated fate, organic traffic to hit your site, um, because there's certain factors that an effort for that. So for example, just for context, you know, when, when you're starting to get rankings and traffic organically and, uh, and, and historically you see a page having the low bounce rate rate, uh, people that answer that page start to navigate to other pages of the website, et cetera. This is what we call historical analytics that search engines do analyze and see that, you know, okay, we gave traffic to this page, um, and we actually saw the performance. That's actually positive. So therefore we're going to start to rank it even higher, right. It compounds like that. So if you're doing a traffic farm of fake traffic hitting the site, which is going to be a hundred percent, most likely bounce rate, they're going to leave.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (05:06):

And it's a compound effect negatively where Google says, okay, where does this a ton of traffic, but it's really hitting the page and leaving. So this page is obviously like something's bad here. And so that's why it's, it's important not to practice this back black hat strategies, or even stay away from the gray hat where it's, you know, where you're trending in the middle, uh, strategies it's the, the right way is, is difficult. It takes a lot of time and resources, but that's all we call it digital PR because you are naturally truly trying to build your, your online PR, uh, in that sense. And that will last for a long time. It's not something that would just go away tomorrow type of deal. So, yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (05:45):

And I think you make a good point. This is something that we need to start today and, and build is going to take some time to get everything dialed in and we just have to stay on top of it. But if we do the right thing and follow good advice, uh, you know, like you're going to give us through this series, then we should be able to, you know, rank higher to the higher, closer to the top than what we are now, for sure.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (06:09):

Absolutely. Yeah. It's something that from day one of your business, you want to start thinking foundation wise, am I building, at least it started building the foundation from an SEO perspective the right way, because it always costs more money and resources to have to fix things in the long run will make that even, even if you're on a tight budget, make sure that you're starting at least on the right foundation, because over the longevity, it is going to be much more efficient time-wise. And then of course it was budget wise too, when it comes to SEO, in terms of people will ask, okay, or business owners specifically in this case, you know, who is it for? Do I need to be investing in SEO? Um, my answer is if you have a product or service, uh, that, that, you know, people are actively searching for online, then you need to be investing in SEO. Organic traffic is one of the most efficient forms of traffic out there. Uh, and it's something that once you get rankings and you're, you've nurtured that, um, authority to, to, to attain those rankings and that traffic, I mean, you're getting traffic while you sleep. Uh, and so that's why it's it's efficient. Um, and that's who it's for is for business owners or anyone to have something of, to provide, uh, and that, uh, that they know that people are actively searching for it. So that's who SEO is for.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (07:24):

Yeah, because it's changed, you know, I think back in the early days it was build it and they'll come B because they're just, there wasn't that much out there, but nowadays that's totally not there. And I, you know, we had a site, we were working on that we prematurely put up and it got zero traffic. So I mean, I, I can attest to the point that if you don't dial in your SEO and do some things you need to do that people will not come at. You know, we, we had zero hits on it, we weren't ready and we, you know, eventually took it down. But we found out that it had been posted for awhile with nothing going on. So it's, I can't stress how important that watching your SEO is going to be to drive traffic. And if we've got a web presence at all, that's exactly what we put, put our web pages up there for us. We want some kind of attention, some kind of traffic.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (08:15):

Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's all forms of, of traffic. There's paid traffic, there's email, referral traffic, or social media referral traffic. And then you have organic SEO in terms of, uh, organic traffic. And so all these channels of traffic, you're, you, you're always making sure that it's matched to business schools or at least some type of objective. For example, if you have blog posts that you're ranking high to attain top funnel traffic, you want to wait to nurture that traffic to capture it and convert it into somehow. I mean, are you going to convert it straight into a business lead? It could happen, but most likely you want to nurture it. And at least maybe go on a, on a date first up in a value. It could be a lead magnet of a checklist, uh, an ebook or something to provide free value. Uh, but that's how you start to build a relationship. Because if you even convert organic traffic with lead magnets, then you can get their contact information, get them in an email sequence and nurture them from there now. Uh, and then, you know, go all the way to marriage, which is the sale. Yeah. Right, right. So, yeah, it's, it's really mapping now and, and thinking about, okay, these traffic channels, how am I going to convert them to the end goal? Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (09:26):

So where would we even begin with this process?

Bobby - Signa Marketing (09:30):

So, so starting with the, the process is identifying your market on, on search engines. Uh, one of the main way to do this of course, is through keyword research, because what you're trying to do is identify what are the Mo the most, what are the most likely, you know, the keywords that a user is searching for that's related to my product or service or, or, you know, answer if it's a blog post. Yeah. You're answering something and see how much search volume is behind it, because that's how you're able to vet, okay. Is there interest around this topic or is there a need around this? You know, how many people are searching this key phrase per month? And a one free common tool to use is Google keyword planner that you'll find in a Google ads account, and you can get a historical keyword data of how many people are searching a certain keyword and see how competitive is to how competitive it is, um, from a cost per click standpoint, um, because that's also an indicator to, if the cost per click is pretty high, it means that you have advertisers buying it, which is the inclination, like indication that it's a value that it's a, it's a keyword that has some buying intent behind it.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (10:39):

So you want to start doing with keyword research because keyword research is what actually drives the decision making of content of which pages should exist, which pieces of content should exist, et cetera. Um, and so it's always going to start from a keyword research standpoint, but using a tool like keyword planner is, uh, definitely very common. If you want to take it up a notch and use the paid tool, uh, tools like SEM rush or age refs are really powerful for doing keyword research as well. Um, so if you want to take it up a notch, those tools are, are, uh, available to them.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (11:12):

Okay. Awesome. Well, uh, this is going to be our first episode. We're going to do, um, three more and, uh, you have anything else that you want to add before we, because I was just going to rattle off these other topics unless you have something else.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (11:27):

Yeah, no, actually I think that this, this wraps up the introduction to SEO. We're going to pick up where we left off with the keyword research aspect and how that drives the on-site up positions.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (11:39):

Okay. Yeah. Great. We're going to, the next episode will be onsite SEO, and then we've got offsite. SEO will be episode three and then episode four will be re optimizing or redesigning an existing site. So please stay tuned in what we'll do is release these on Thursdays, on our kind of our off cycle with our major episodes. So also want to say, go back. Uh, we, we did four episodes on YouTube advertising and so go back, check those out. Uh, they were probably in the month of, uh, coming through the month of February. So, uh, Bobby as usual. Thank you very much. Uh, tell her about the, how of course they can reach out and get you there at Cigna marketing.

Bobby - Signa Marketing (12:22):

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Roy. Uh, and so if you have any questions or anything like that at all, um, we're actually able to answer questions even in public form, through a YouTube show that we call blueprint. Um, you can find us and submit questions through any of our social media channels, just at Cigna marketing, uh, is our handle on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and LinkedIn. And we're more than happy to take questions and I'm always able to provide them on the show.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 Episode 1, SEO Introduction - Why you should care (12:47):

Okay, great. Well, thank you, Bobby. We look forward to talking to you again next week. Of course, this is the business of business podcast. You can find [email protected] on all the major social media. And of course these episodes will be released on YouTube as they become available. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your business.

www.signamarketing.com
www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

How These Inbound Marketing Strategies and Techniques Will Increase Your Prospects with Monique Idemudia

Monique Idemudia is the founder of Dragon Digital Marketing, a digital marketing agency for small businesses based in St. Petersburg, Florida and passionate about inspiring small business owners to build an online presence and grow their business with the power of great digital marketing. She is an execution-driven consultant and specializes in inbound marketing strategies with which small businesses can scale.

A little about me

• Practically addicted to cold brew and iced americanos
• Loves running (Yes, I actually enjoy cardio)
• Embarrassingly obsessed with my bearded dragon Horatio-Marquise
• Has been to 21 countries ...and counting
• Has lived in Germany
• Speaks English, French and German
• Liked math in school
• Knows how to code
• Prefers waffles over pancakes
• Host of the Dragon Digital Marketing Podcast
• Writer on the Dragon Digital Marketing Blog

I'm a small business digital marketing consultant for small businesses that want to grow

I've founded the Dragon Digital Marketing agency because I'm passionate about small business marketing and designing a digital marketing strategy. Being as creative as I am, I always come up with ideas. I like when it gets technical and enjoy to bring a vision to life with small business marketing tools.

If you're an entrepreneur and want to become more influential and grow and need help with crafting the right plan of action that allows you to scale efficiently, Dragon Digital Marketing is the agency for you.

We specialize in creating digital marketing strategy frameworks that cover everything from your branding to your marketing, to the different channels you use, like social media, email, or your website, just to name a few.

If you have high aspirations and seek to make a bigger impact in the world, you have to consider a lot of different aspects and be clear about your processes all the way down to the nitty gritty.

And you don't want to lose yourself and stay authentic while you take your business to the next level. You also don't want to do everything manually and leverage small business marketing automation. This is exactly what me and my team can do for you.

You need a well thought out small business digital marketing plan from a professional small business digital marketing consultant.

A successful digital marketing strategy focuses on generating traffic and leads, capturing information and building an audience, presenting your offers and closing deals, retaining customers and overdelivering on your promises, as well as nurturing your audience and following up. It also includes and aligns with your branding strategy, overall marketing goals, channel strategy and the content you publish.

www.dragon-digital-marketing.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

Full Transcript Below 

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy. We are a podcast that bring a lot of different guests from a lot of different disciplines, a lot of viewpoints, just trying to put information out there. Um, you know, that is our main focus is just, uh, not only educating our business, our smaller businesses, solopreneurs entrepreneurs, but also giving them resources to go to if they, you know, may recognize that they have a need. Uh, we do talk to a lot of great professionals. And again, today we have another awesome professional with this. It's Monique Idemudia, and I hope that I got, she coached me through that, but I hope that I got that right. She is the founder of dragon digital marketing. It's a digital marketing agency for small businesses and she is based out of, uh, St. Petersburg, Florida. Um, Monique is passionate about inspiring small businesses, small business owners to build an online presence and grow their business with the power of great digital marketing. She is an execution driven consultant and specializes in inbound marketing strategies in which small businesses can scale. So first off, Monique, welcome to the show and thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. Hi

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (01:25):

Roy, thank you so much for having me.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (01:28):

So first off, you know, I guess the, the good question is kind of, how did you end up here? What led you to the digital marketing and especially focusing on small businesses?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (01:41):

Right. I've always worked in digital marketing. I've loved marketing ever since. It's always fascinated me and excited me. I'm a creative person, but I'm also like a little bit of a numbers person and an analytical person. A marketing has like the perfect, um, makes where I can use my skill set and, you know, apply all of the knowledge that I have and use all of the skills that I have all in one. So it's really multifaceted and yeah, it's a lot of fun to me and yeah, I decided to help small businesses with my agency because I love small businesses and I, you know, I like to help small business owners and I want to really help them grow and scale. And, um, you know, versus working with like large corporations, it's not as fun, not as exciting to me. I get to really work closely with the people and I get to see the impact that I, that I make. And it's just a better connection and a nicer, more personal relationship.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (02:41):

Yeah. And I think, uh, you know, I do a lot of work with small businesses as well, and you can really see the needle move with them, or sometimes, you know, maybe even a needle, small amount for a large corporation benefits in greatly, but it's not near as fun as the, you know, seeing how you can really transform a small business. Well, you know, and that kind of leads into what, um, I guess what drew me to new and got us to speaking originally about, you know, you coming on the show is I like what you said about, uh, building strategies that can scale. And I think that's kind of a jumping off point. It's important because a lot of times we do things that at some point we kind of bumped into the ceiling, we just can't push them further. So, uh, can you tell us a little bit about this, uh, you know, how you can help businesses build these strategies to scale?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (03:36):

Yes, that's right. So oftentimes there comes a point where a lot of small businesses can grow and scale anymore when they've reached that point because the processes and the systems are just not built for that. They haven't been laid out to handle, um, you know, all of that input coming in. So it's really important to systematize the entire business and structure the strategy. Um, you have different processes there and you have to be really, really aware of every single stage. You have to be aware of the stages of awareness of your target customers. You have to be aware of the target that you want to achieve and how you funnel your target customers through your bias journey and have goals set for each stage. And then you also need to have software in place that handles it for you. And everything has to be well integrated, um, with each other. So it's like this. Yeah, perfect orchestrator of people and processes, SOP plan software, all working together. So you can really grow and scale your small business.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (04:49):

Yeah. I'm a fool. We even start talking about the digital aspect or marketing in general. I think you bring up a good point with all these different things that need to be in place. The very first thing I suggest is to be able to have a conversation because there's so many, uh, people doing things that I don't want to say unscrupulous, scrupulous, but they will take your money and do things that don't really propel your business to that level. And I've talked about it with, uh, others before, but we'll just pay, uh, likes, you know, if you get likes on a, an account that is just bang, basically it's just managing driven because somebody, I can have thousands of people like my account, but that does, if they're not buyers or potential buyers in the future, then they have no value. I mean, I would rather have one light with the person who was going to be a buyer and then a thousand of people that don't because it doesn't gain this anything.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (05:51):

So I think the importance is setting down and hearing exactly what you just said is that this is more than about candy market for me. Yes. Here's my check. And then it just sometime magically happens. I mean, you have to have a conversation, number one, to make sure you're a good fit, but also you have to build these processes on these systems before you can actually get going. So it's good to, to understand that from your marketing, person's point of view, what they can do for you, what they're willing to do for you, and then also manage those expectations.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (06:29):

That's right. Yeah. So you really have to get to know the business, like, like everything, um, and analyze everything and take all of that into account and then map out the strategy. It has to be custom. It can't be a cookie cutter template or a cookie cutter funnel. What, uh, what an entirely different business in mind. So really, really custom. And you have to make the effort to really actually care, first of all, and then get to know the people, get to know the business and really get to know their goals. And, you know, there's different ways. There's not one, uh, the one and only way to achieve a certain thing. So you can really map it out and then customize it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (07:10):

Yeah, I think it's important because a lot of times people say, Hey, marketing is marketing. I can do a four gathered selling, you know, candy person sell cars. And I think the back end process of me putting an ad, something let's just use Facebook. I mean, the process of putting some text in a box, selecting go, Hey, that's all pretty much universal, but the messaging, I mean, the, somebody like yourself, that's working with small businesses really has to fundamentally understand, you know, who's my customer, what is my business? What is my value proposition? Because honestly, there can be two like businesses that have very different value propositions. So, uh, if your marketing person won't take the time to sit down with you and have this conversation, it would probably be a big red flag.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (08:03):

Yes, it should be. It shouldn't be a big red flag. If your marketing person is not willing to take the time to sit down with you and really get to know your business and create personas for that business and, you know, really, um, segment your audience and turn them in to like different groups and buckets that you can then, you know, work with. So that's really been, and it's also important to agree on KPIs and not chase vanity metrics, such as likes, like you've mentioned that mean nothing, and they don't affect the bottom line and it's not getting your profit because you want your marketing to be an investment and actually making more money back. So you really have to approach it strategically. That's.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (08:45):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other part of that is that as the consumer or as the client, you should not have to beg and stay after. You're a marketing to do that. If they don't come at you pretty quick with these are the things that we need to do, then it probably need to move on. But enough about that, that's just, you know, it's very important. There's so many people that in this day in time, anybody can hang a shingle out that says, I'm a marketing guy, I'm a finance guy. You can say that you're anything, but knowing these intricacies of how to actually work that process, not everybody has that detail. So that's just good to know when you're interviewing or talking with other people. So let's just start with the basics that, you know, you, you mentioned inbound marketing, so there is inbound marketing and outbound marketing. What are some of the key differences? And the second thing is why, why do I care? What the D why would I care as your consumer? What those are.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (09:47):

Yes. Right. Okay. And bound and outbound marketing. They're both fundamentally different. Outbound marketing is like, you're reaching out to your target customer. You're cold calling them. You're sending them emails. You're sending them DMS on LinkedIn or wherever, and reach out to them. And you just pitch to them and you want to sell it to them. And you're the one who finds them. Like either you buy a list of, uh, contacts with their contact information, email address, phone number, wherever you get that information from, and then you call them up or you hire like, uh, at their company to do that for you. And, um, that's outbound marketing. That's like the old school way on the way that it used to be. And people just, you know, got kind of sick of it. You know, people don't like being sold to people left to buy what they don't like being sold to.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (10:41):

And they like to buy from people that they know like and trust and, um, organically come to them. And it's just a better approach to bring, to allow people to have the realization themselves, that you're an expert you're trustworthy and you can help them. And you have the perfect solution for them organically through content that you put out. For example, I'm on your podcast right now. So people can see, I actually know what I'm talking about. Um, you know, not just pretending to be a marketer, but I actually, you know, know what I'm doing. And I have a proven track record and there's content out there that shows it and that proves it. And that will attract people. And that's the inbound ways of the inbound ways, really doing content marketing and putting your videos, blog articles, uh, podcast episodes, uh, graphics, whatever you have out there. And that attracts people to you. So you're not as intrusive and salesy and pushy. Um, as the, as the stereotype is for a lot of marketers and salespeople as well. But yeah, you're just letting your success, your, your actions speak for themselves, so to speak.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (11:59):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that a couple of things, just from what you said that I kind of recognize is, so the, you know, the outbound marketing is basically the business, taking the approach to reach out we're inbound is you let people take, come to you, you know, their time when they're ready. And like you said, sometimes people are turned off by a very aggressive, outbound marketing, and you ended up turning somebody off that may have been environmentally, but now they, you know, they have a bad taste for your company. So they're like, I'm not even going to consider. So think that is, um, one thing to consider. The other thing that's interesting is that, so when you do outbound, you're limited by your, how many people you have. I mean, you can always scale by adding people, but when you add people, you add costs training. There's a lot of complications. Whereas I'm assuming with inbound marketing side, that is where the scale really works. Because once you have success, because it's much easier and probably much cheaper or more cost effective, put it that way. It's more cost effective to scale to get that next lead than I actually have.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (13:17):

Yes. Right? Yes. When you're at Brown, you're also burning a lot of leads because if you leave a bad first impression and you're really pushing and following up like a million times, you don't take the time to like, even get to know the person and you know, how, how you can, how you can provide help and how you can benefit them. But you're basically saying, um, I want your money. Um, you know, you only get one chance, right? That's what you're doing when you do outbound. Versus when you, when you do inbound, um, you can convince people through your content and you can put out different forms of content that help people learn more and, you know, educate themselves about what it is that you do. And whether, you know, common, myths and misconceptions, and they can get like a realistic understanding about what they need. And what's actually good for them and just learn more as well. And then they can come to you and reach out when the actually, you know, when, when they're ready, when they, when they feel like it, when they've reached that stage. So time is also very important. Uh, you can reach out to the right person when I'm working, but if it's at the wrong time, then you've last that, that person as well. So yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (14:33):

Yeah. Sorry, I'm not being rude, just taking some notes because there's a lot to go with this, but, uh, you know, the, uh, the other great thing about the outbound about the inbound portion is that you can make that work for you 24 hours a day, because you know, like the other night I got busy and it was, you know, 10, 11 o'clock. And I'm thinking about a Christmas gift from my dad. So I'm kind of looking through some stuff. Now, if you'd called me at 10 or 11 o'clock at night, probably wouldn't have been too happy that you make enough solicitations. That that's both illegal number one. But, you know, I mean, the point is that I had access to content that I could look at at, on my terms, whenever that is 24 hours a day,

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (15:22):

That's right. It's also South brain forcing, you know, people can share that content so you can get new traffic and new people come into you and you get word of mouth referrals and you know, it just, it works 24 seven, basically. You don't have to do actively reach out to people all the time and your stuff is out there on the internet, 24, seven, 365 days a year, and people can find it and, uh, share a day and night. And, you know, a piece of content that you may have graded two years ago can still gen generate you leads today. And I'm also going forward into the future. So it just snowballs and may become so big and powerful, uh, once a year, really, you know, doing it and you're fully leveraging it. So it's really a powerful approach to marketing being indicted.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (16:11):

Yeah. One more thing about that is the, uh, you know, I feel like our consumers are getting smarter now. I'm not talking about more of a, you know, three or $5 item that somebody might pick up. That's not a lot of thought goes into it, but once your price point start rising and the purchase of a good or service takes more thought and consideration, I think we have begun with the internet has allowed us to do more research. So instead of me having to call you and say no need that, I don't know what your product or your service really is. Can you explain that to me? The think that we, as consumers are doing much more research before I call you and say, Monique, I'm ready to buy in that, is that kinda what you are seeing?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (17:01):

Yes. And you give the people the opportunity to do that and to do that research what your content. So you can also, you know, influence that. And yeah, that's really powerful. And just also what I'm seeing. So people are definitely much more informed than they used to be, and they're doing their research and they're also really interested because they can access that information, you know, easily on their phone. Um, if you're connected to the internet, the whole world is, is in your hands basically. Yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (17:30):

Yeah, yeah. And the other nice thing about that is it allows our prospects or consumers to much more easily share the business information with friends and relatives too. It's easy, you know, just a forward or share something. So I think that's another big thing. Um, so tell us some tips, I guess, about, you know, I've got some content that I want to publish either website, I guess, blog, you know, there's a lot of methods, but what are some ways that I can make sure that that gets viewed at one? Cause that's a great, you can create great content, but if nobody ever sees it, it's pretty much worthless. So I think that is, you know, what is the next step once we created it in order to get it out to the right people?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (18:19):

That's right. So content promotion is just as important as content creation. You guys create the content and then also go ahead and promote it and which channels you're promoting it on really depends on your business and depends on your audience. You have to analyze it. You can do surveys, ask questions, ask your existing customers, do some market research and see what people like, um, how people like to consume the content, whether they prefer to read an article or watch a video, like you don't know, you have to find out and then see where they hang out, which are their favorite social platforms. Like where are you going to be at as your small business, or is your brand, and then be where customers are. You have to come to them, um, you know, to, to get your content in front of the right eyeballs. So that's really, um, that's really, um, individual, there's no general advice that I can give here, but you can easily find it out.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (19:14):

And another important thing is to really, um, create buyer personas. So you know, everything about your ideal customers and it really, it really personalizes everything it's like now, you know that you're talking to a real person and they're not just like a number anymore, this abstract, Oh, like, this is my ideal customer. Right? You, you got it. You can reference that over and over again and refine it. And it's going to help you to resonate more with the right people so you can get your content in front of them. And, um, yeah, that's really important.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (19:51):

Yeah. Sorry. I just had a battery failure on my recording device. Can you still hear me? You still hear me now? Yes. I can still hear me. Okay. I don't have too much background noise. Yeah. Uh, so, um, yeah, I was just making a note that that's important is to create an avatar of our, our customer. They're all different they're for every business. And then also that's going to change maybe for, you know, six months or a year. We always have to revisit that, to see if this is still the same person that we're selling to. And it's also different to try to differentiate between, um, who may be our in user versus who may be the purchaser. And I just say that because I, I talked to a gentleman not long ago that did some work with, um, with kids through a martial art studio. So some of their advertising was reaching the kids, but of course they don't have the buying power to actually make the purchase, but, you know, they were able to convince mom and dads to do that. So anyway, there can be a differentiator between there as well.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (21:09):

Absolutely. Yeah. This is a great example of your marketing to kids. You have to convince the parents as well because your parents have the money saying when you're in B2B and you're selling to larger companies, maybe they have, you know, hierarchies, they have report lines. So the end user may not be the one that the purchaser with the purchasing power that you know, has control over the budget. So you really have to identify the different roles in the buying center and see, you know, who you approach, how and yeah. That's

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (21:42):

So then the next thing we do, we have done once we create that buying persona, then also really looking at the channels because our, I think our cha, if I'm not wrong and you can, you know, you can elaborate on this, but I think our channels have become very differentiated who resides where, and just some of the big ones that I can kind of relate to are, you know, business professionals, if you're like doing B to B sales, probably want to be on LinkedIn. Whereas if it's a consumer sale, uh, if it's for a, uh, I don't know, middle-aged maybe I think middle-aged is probably now the bigger audience on Facebook and then kids typically, maybe Tik TOK or Instagrams, maybe even Twitter. I don't know what, what are you, what's your take on that? Yeah,

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (22:38):

That's right. So you have to identify which channels make the most sense for you and where your ideal customers actually hang out and what are they using because that's where you want to be as well. So do some research about that. And that should also be part of your buyer persona or of your ideal customer avatar too, to figure that out. And you definitely want to go Omni channel and not put all of your eggs in one basket and, you know, do just one thing and focus all of your energy and efforts just on one channel. So you want to distributed a little, which they'll focus on a couple of, you know, key things, key channels. You don't want to dilute all of your marketing power and try to, you know, do everything at the same time. And then you end up being good at nothing because nowadays it's very competitive and you have to be amazing at what you do in order to stand out or your, your posts are just not gonna stick out. And especially on social media, what you've mentioned of the social platforms, uh, people have infinite feeds and you can keep on scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and you, you know, you need to post and create a content that is scroll stopping that really waste them staffers second, and think like, wow, okay, this stands out to me. This is for some reason unique, um, you know, to, to be in order for you for, for it to be effective for you. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (24:02):

Right? Yeah. And that's the, uh, the other good question is posting because I know algorithm well, there's so much out there now that I feel that if I post something, let's just use Facebook for an example, I post something on there. Now, if you're not on there now you may not see that the chances are very high, that that post is already burned off by the time you get on there. So, and there's, you know, as I've, you know, I have my own ideas, but as I've done a lot of interviews lately, you know, I hear a lot of differential, different opinions on how much you should post. So let's talk about that for a minute. What, what do you think, uh, you know, I'm selling the service that in, uh, I'm doing Facebook or LinkedIn, how often do I need to post?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (24:59):

Yeah, that's a great topic. Um, it really depends on the social network. Each social network is different and the lifetime of posts on each social network is different. For example, on Instagram, your post is pretty much dead after just a couple of minutes. Um, because yeah, it's, it's just so competitive. So many people post their pictures under the same hashtags that are just super, super popular. So you have to post more frequently think about posting daily. If your audience is international, you may even want to think about hosting several time today to reach people in all of the different times as, because one person gets up and starts their day. And for one person, it's the end of the day, they're just going to bed and just, uh, just, uh, trying to chill or whatever. So that's important. And for example, LinkedIn, uh, the pros live a lot longer and you can still see things in your feed that people have posted like a week or two weeks, or sometimes even three weeks.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (25:57):

I've seen that three weeks ago. So that really depends. And you can also post the same content, just adjusted a little bit and, uh, you know, tailor it to the social platform, but you can definitely recycle it and repurpose it and post it on different platforms or even under the same platform, just a couple of days later, um, at a different time, maybe. So you don't have to always come up with new content and that's how you can make sure and improve your chances. Then everybody gets a chance to, to see your posts. And then, like I said, go Omni channel. Um, ideally that person is also a subscribers, your email list, for example, then you can send an email out to them and give them that information and share those, those news with them that way as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (26:46):

Yeah. The, um, I guess the other part of that too, is, um, well, I just lost my train of thought and then we'll come back to that because I had another, I had another thought about when you said that about getting with them. So there are ways if I'm not mistaken now, too, if somebody checks out a posts, we can see kind of, if I'm, let's say I've got new sales and maybe I've got service components of my business, if I post a new sales posts versus the, um, repair type posts, you can actually look at that. So you know how to target re sending them information. I mean, like it, and then I hate to pick on car dealerships, but let's just use that for an example. You're looking for a new car. If I start flooding you with information about how awesome I can repair your car, you're like, that's not what I'm interested in, but there are ways to make that happen. Correct. Yeah,

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (27:52):

It's the psoriasis, there are many ways that you can make that happen. You just have to find out, you know, what people's problems are, what their pain points are and what they're, uh, what they're searching for. So that comes back to the stages of awareness. You know, a person starts as a complete stranger. How aware are they of the problem and of your solution? Are they interested yet? Are they actually, uh, searching things and trying to find out information and trying to learn and educate themselves and Google stuff? Or are they already, you know, well-informed and they're already ready to buy, and they're just looking for someone to stop the problem for them, for someone to hire, to repair their car, for example. So you have to like map it out that the different stages of awareness, and then also take your funnel as an example, and, um, just, just match it to the different stages of the marketing funnel as well.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (28:49):

So you really know where the person is at as an individual, like everybody is at a different stage, and then you have to cater to that and create content for each of those stages to reach people in each of those stages. So that's how you do it and what most people do, or what I see most people doing is they're only targeting the people that are already ready to buy. Um, and then they're just missing out a huge portion of the entire pool of people that could be potential customers for their business. And they don't market to them. They don't market to the people who are not solution aware yet for who are we, we not even problem aware yet. And, um, yeah, that's just such a missed opportunity because there's huge potential.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (29:38):

Yeah. And what we want, you know, our society is a lot more, um, instant gratification focus. We can't lease back the, you know, the, um, from the old days. So we always talk about building a pipeline is that, you know, I want to reach you if you're ready to buy the day for sure. But I also want to be putting out information to make you, like you said, brand aware that I exist, that I have your solution, but be there in six months from now when you are ready to buy. So I guess that kind of gets back to these consistency and running the ads and things like that.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (30:18):

Yes, exactly. So you can just, you know, be all short term instant gratification. You have to think longterm too, because the time passes anyways. Right. For example, if you're going to, um, pop, publish a blog article, let's take that as an example, you optimize it for SEO and you optimize it for all of the keywords and also from a technical perspective and everything it takes like a year until you rank for it and get all of that organic traffic would all of those, um, potential customers coming in, coming to your website that, uh, want to buy from you. Um, the time is gonna pass anyway. So if you're, if you're not doing it at all, you can't win, but you know, if you're doing it, you can win. So, you know, you're in it for the long run. And hopefully like you, you want your business to grow. You want to survive and you still want to be there many, many years from now. And since the time's going to pass anyways, you can, you can really invest in that and leverage that as well. So you have to think longterm and, you know, um, also be open to long-term digital marketing strategies and not just the short term, because then again, you're, you're missing out on, uh, on a huge opportunity.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (31:28):

Yeah. So the other thing I did recapture that thought I had her last year, but we're talking about most and stuff. It's like, uh, you know, text is good and people want something to read when, you know, if we're putting out inflammation to educate, we have to have texts for sure. But my understanding is that, you know, texts can draw people in and then, uh, pictures are like leaving breadcrumbs to your content and videos are likely being chocolate covered, crumbs to hear content. So, you know, like when we posted and, um, again, use Facebook, LinkedIn, since I'm more familiar with those, but, uh, when you do post some texts, select the picture that's relevant, I think it helps the draw. The picture gets people's attention. Like you were saying earlier about just scrolling by stuff. If it's just texts, I think you have a tendency to scroll by it faster than if a picture is like, Whoa, let me look at that.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (32:36):

Yes, that's right. Have a visual, uh, you can design your own graph phase or use a stock photo or whatever, but it definitely helps. Um, it's also great because then you're probably takes up more screen real estate and it becomes larger because all of a sudden that picture is there. So you can be more present and that impression, uh, generates more awareness for you as well. And videos are even even better than pictures because, uh, it's just a richer, medium, and you can also build rapport through video, you know, really, really greatly. Um, especially right now, everything has to be socially distance. You can't meet people in person. That's why it's so great to go on video, um, do virtual events. So you can really connect to people. They see you, they hear you talk and move your, your mimics, your gestures at the same time. And you can get that really personal connection and you just increase your chances of people stopping and watching it. And then also clicking on the link and clicking through, versus if it's, you know, just texting and always have a call to action, as well as also super, super important. Whenever you're posting something, you have to lead people and, you know, tell them what it is that you want them to do, because you can't just assume that they'll know it or they'll just do it because they, they won't.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (33:55):

Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. That's very important. And then, uh, as we talk about that, the, um, uh, one thing I'd say is don't be afraid to show your human side or that personal. I mean, I guess there's different degrees of vulnerability, but a lot of times people are, you know, we may go with, uh, a spot photo versus take a photo of yourself, your staff, because, you know, as you mentioned earlier, I think people buy from people that they connect with, that they feel some kind of a kinship with, you know, they trust for sure, but you know, you like dogs, then don't be scared to have a dog in your picture or something like that. Is there, is there value in that?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (34:44):

I think so. Definitely because at the end of the day, we're all humans and everybody, you know, people interact with people and people buy for people, even if you're in B2B, it's still, people is still human beings that, uh, that buys from you. So if you can connect at a personal level, you find something that you have in common, you're being sympathetic. You're, you're just showing that you're a real human being and you liked docs and you're not always no buttoned up burner as suitor or whatever. Um, and you're just being, you know, personal and yeah, just, just be vulnerable human, um, and show you, show your personal side and that will definitely benefit you. And yeah, that's a, that's a huge plus if you, if you can do that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (35:28):

Yeah. And it's, so cost-effective nowadays the iPhone, well, let's just say any, uh, smartphone takes good video. There are, uh, services where you can caption your picture. You know, there's a lot of things out there. If that's what you really want to do, look forward. It doesn't cost a lot or take a lot of time. You know, these are the other thing I find is it's surprisingly, um, quick to do these little tips and tricks that will really help you like taking a picture. You know, it's not like what some people think that we got to have the big photo shoot hair and make up, and we're bringing in video Crees. That's not really what I'm talking about as much as, you know, cause I I'm the guy that thinks if it's too contrived, if it's too sanitary too, uh, scripted, I'm not as interested in that as I am, you know, that the guy that's out on the back deck, you know, taking his own video or whatever, I just, I find more value in that personally.

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (36:33):

Absolutely. And that's also the trend that we see. It used to be like that back in the day where you needed to have those high Lester productions and everything needed to be super professional in order for you to even be taken seriously as a business versus now you can just take your iPhone, um, you know, just record yourself. Uh, you, you can use selfies as, as your pictures. You can just make your own videos. All you need is just your phone and we'd be like a tripod and go ahead and make it super casual video. Gary Vaynerchuk is super successful with his video content and you know, it's anything but super professional. You know, you don't need a film crew coming in here and make every and everything to be perfect. The chart is even in everything being imperfect and just real, you know, which is a real, just normal, like we all are. So yeah, definitely. You, you have to overcome that. Don't be like a perfectionist and think that everything has to be perfect. Just be, just be you. And you know, that's what it's all about. It's about being different and being uniquely, you, you need a unique selling proposition, you need value proposition and that's what it's all about when it comes to differentiating yourself and building your brand. And that's exactly what you achieved by doing that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (37:51):

All right. Yeah. And especially with this pandemic, you know, we've got a couple of dogs that, uh, they've been awesome today, but every now and then they will come jump up in the picture, be a little bit noisy in the background, but you know, um, that's everybody's lives. I mean, that's the thing is like you said, those imperfect, imperfect, perfect imperfections is that everybody has the same thing. So yeah, we're all, you know, people are dealing with their kids or spouses and mothers or mother-in-laws or whatever. There's a lot of stuff going on. So it, it kind of lends the fact that, Hey, you're human and it also kind of lets them know that it's okay for them to have these things, things going on. That's right. Pomona. We appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us. It's been an awesome talk. I feel like we've learned a lot. Um, first off, what is a tool that you use in your daily life, either a professional or personal, a tool, a habit, a ritual, something that you just don't feel like you could do without every day?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (38:57):

Um, I like to use, I like to use food sweetie, to schedule my social media posts in advance. It helps me a lot with my planning. I don't have to, you know, set my, set my alarm to think about posting. I can do it all in advance, preschedule it? And it's, you know, so amazing. It gives me analytics reports. I can even interact and answer comments and interact with my audience and all different, uh, social media platforms at the same time, all in that dashboard, all in one platform. So that's super handy. I love active campaign for marketing automation. It just handles so much stuff for me that I otherwise would have to do all manually. And it's such a time saver. Um, if you have that set up. So yeah, those are like, uh, two of my favorites. I like Trello for project management. Um, so yeah, there's a, like my favorite tools.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (39:52):

Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Well, so let us know. Uh, so who is your customer? What can you do for them and how can they reach out and get ahold of you?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (40:02):

Yes. That if you're a small business and you really want to grow and scale and you have big dreams, I can definitely help you grow and scale and adapt a digital marketing strategy and adapt your digital marketing strategy and help you create a strategy that is just for you. And it's going to be super actionable, like a plan of action step by step and systematize all of your operations and your entire business. So it can grow and scale what you and you can achieve your big dreams and hopefully grow. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (40:32):

Okay, great. Great. So how can people reach out and put you to work for them?

Monique - Dragon Digital Marketing (40:37):

My website is dragon-digital-marketing.com and they can find everything you can reach out to me. I have a lot of content and resources on there as well, so you can learn right. Everything. You can also find all of my social handles there. I'm on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Um, yeah, that's the best way to reach us.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Inbound Marketing Strategies (40:59):

Okay. Yeah. We'll be sharing the website in the show notes as well. So y'all reach out, put Monique to work for you. Let her help you grow your business. Uh, you won't be sorry. Let her help you scale your inbound marketing for sure. All right. Well, thanks again. This has been another episode of the business of business podcast. You can find us at www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com also on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and, uh, this recording will go up on YouTube as well, be sharing and share with your friends. And, uh, we own all the major platforms, iTunes, Google, uh, Google play, Stitcher Spotify. So reach out until next time everybody take care of each other.

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

www.dragon-digital-marketing.com

 

           

Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source with Tracy Lamourie

Tracy Lamourie,a high profile international award winning publicist, is the Founder and Managing Director of Lamourie Media Inc. a  Universal Women's Network 2020 Woman of Inspiration Winner for the Women In Media award and the author of the upcoming book GET REPPED - Build Your Brand With Effective Public and Media Relations. She is a well known long time advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award-winning international publicist working across industries from major entertainment projects to small businesses. Tracy is passionate about amplifying important messages and being a voice for those who most need one. Recognized by media around the world for her 20-year campaign that ultimately helped free an innocent man from death row to her work getting clients major media attention and for her local community work, she is the winner of the FIRST PLACE PLATINUM award Hamilton Spectator ReadersChoice for PR 2018, Diamond 2019. She has been frequently quoted in the international media on both human rights issues and as a Public Relations thought leader.  A frequent guest on TV, radio and high profile podcasts around the world on topics of leadership, empowerment, and entrepreneurship as well as all aspects of media and public relations. She is a  2020 RBC Women of Influence Nominee and was also recently nominated for the internationally prestigious 2020 Tällberg/Eliasson Global Leadership Prize.

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy, of course, our show. What we do is we talk about issues that affect small businesses, solopreneurs entrepreneurs, and, uh, try to bring guests on that, you know, that can have an impact for those businesses. We can talk about actionable items, a lot of things that we may not have thought about, or if you have thought about it, uh, you know, we can try to help provide guests that can provide that solution for you. So, uh, today we are fortunate enough to have Tracy Lamourie a, she is a high profile international award-winning publicist and the founder and managing director of Lamourie media. She's also a universal women's network, 2020 woman of inspiration winner for the women in media award and the author of an upcoming book, Get Repped - Build Your Brand With Effective Public and Media Relations. Tracy, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us.

Tracy (01:06):

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to your audience.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (01:09):

You bet. So, um, let's just talk a little bit about that. You know, I think media relations is it's important because there are, I think there are a lot of channels, you know, traditionally we think of marketing nowadays as putting an ad up on the internet or Facebook, but there are a lot of opportunities through traditional media as well. Not only to get the exposure of, you know, of links to us from them, but also just get direct exposure through them.

Tracy (01:39):

Absolutely. There are, and that's something that most, I would say 80% of entrepreneurs, honestly, across industries do not consider that, or aren't even aware of that. You know, once they get to the corporate level, it's common to have a communications team, right. Which is essentially the publicist, but, um, at the entrepreneurial level and they are, it's a shame because they're literally daily missing opportunities where media is actually looking for sources as well as those opportunities where they can be telling this story, reaching out with media advisories and press releases, you know, and, and it's just as easy to get, you know, w with a skill when understanding what the newsroom is looking for and a skilled way of telling your story, it's just as easy to get mainstream media, attention, TV, radio print, as it is to be, you know, get international podcast attention on high-profile podcasts like yours. And if people aren't doing those things these days, this is where you hear the term thought leadership, even though some people think that's a silly expression, but if you're not looking for ways to sort of talk about your industry, your feel, what you do, other people in your industry are. And so it proceeding, you know, more and more as we move forward, you're getting left behind and you're just being stuck with your own little customer base that won't expand. If you're, you know, you're not in the games actually.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (03:01):

Yeah. And that's why it's important to, you know, know contacts like you. That can be the, uh, the, I guess, media relations department for small businesses that, you know, can't afford to have somebody on full-time because you know, this kind of falls under the category of, we don't know what we don't know. And, um, you know, a lot of times entrepreneurs fall into something because they're good at either making something or providing a service, but this whole back end of the business. And that's kind of, you know, that was why I started this show was to try to help them with this. But this media thing, I mean, it's tough because you've got to know how to get through to the right. You can just pick up the phone and call these guys and think that they're going to be like, Hey, yeah, we've been waiting on you to call us, come on down. Or, you know, we're coming out or do something. I mean, you have to know how to, uh, I guess get through the right channels.

Tracy (03:56):

Yeah. And it started with two things. Number one, is who are you contacting? Are you calling the right meet? He like would report on that. You know, like, you know, the basics, like you don't want a sports guy with the business story, which sounds obvious, but it's not people do it all the time. And there's no better way to like annoy the media. But the other side of it too, is really understanding before you even think about calling in the media is understanding they're not in the business of giving you free advertising. They're quite aware of the value of that space for just like you're aware of the value of your podcast. You don't think, but you don't put everybody on, even though they might be nice. They maybe whatever you have a certain audience and a message in a framework that any potential guest has to fit into.

Tracy (04:36):

And so people all the time w when, w when I, you know, when entrepreneurs finally understand the value of media and that it's not just for celebrities or sports stars, the next hurdle is for them to really, truly understand the difference between editorial and advertorial. Huge difference. You never watched the news, right. And see new and improved product. Doesn't matter how amazing your product is. It's not in that 20, 20, 22 minute newscast just know that's not news. Right? Right. So you have to understand, get yourself in the head frame of what they, you want to gift them with content. That actually is quality content that feeds their audience and what their goal is. You have to be thinking about what, how the newsroom thinks. And the first thing they're like new thing, especially in a business story, the editor is going to think, buy an ad, buy an ad.

Tracy (05:29):

Why don't you buy it? Now they know you're nearing a beach bike, you know, been two and they need work and you're there to make money. And you're, you know, so the first, their first instinct is, you know, buy an app, right? So you have to break that by actually fighting about a story and showing them how that story is something their audience needs, not just as a new improved product. Right. But, uh, so the way to do it is quite often not focusing on the product itself, but focusing on you, the expert, speaking about the industry or something about like, even if you're a lawn mower, even if you mow lawns for a living and that's your company, and you think, well, what the heck am I going to? Well, there are things that you, you know, every day we don't know about, whether it's about how grass has changed, the quality of the environment, the bugs that you're seeing right now, that whatever it is, there's stories in there, you can be speaking about which you are to media saying, Hey, you know, Bob from Bob's lawn care has noticed this year.

Tracy (06:23):

We have more assets than usual and you know, or whatever it is. And as you're now the story isn't, Bob's lawn care has some sales that that's long airplanes in town. Yeah. But the fact that you, Bob, on their speaking, they have to must be the best lawn care guy in town. They don't let the power of the media. When you see a real estate agent on there, you assume the media would look far and wide for the best die. The doctor that's ordered the best. You know, they were the ones that presented the story in most cases, or they were the ones who give good quote or the publicist was available when they reached out and said, Hey, I'm looking for a doctor who can do this. So there's existing media opportunities that you, you know, that a publicist knows what the, you won't find for yourself. Right. But if you wanted to spend hours and hours a day doing the kind of stuff that we do, essentially becoming your own publicist, right. You could do those. Then there are other things that, you know, just you putting out your own messaging, understanding what a press release says, understanding that editorial versus advertorial and reaching out to your local media and you can get, you know, you could get a hit and get coverage if you're doing it right. It truly is informational.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (07:30):

I know you've kind of talked a little bit around it, but why don't you just explain the difference between the editorial and an advertorial?

Tracy (07:39):

So advertorial is, you know, and this is what money is, what most entrepreneurs are going to tell me in their first, you know, when the child, me about what they want the press release to be about. Right. And I have to correct them and go, no, no. Well, cause they're thinking, they're not thinking they're not editors. And I very good at what I do because I have also been in the newsroom. I've been a writer, I've been a journalist, a better TV person. So half my brain, when you tell me the story you want me to tell an editor is thinking like an editor, like, right. It's that nice, nice. You know, it's nice, but it's not. I only have 22 minutes in my news broadcast. I have three pages. So number one think, is it worth there that limited space, that limited very valuable real estate, right?

Tracy (08:23):

Is it true? You ask yourself, is this truly news or is this something I just like, is this really just an ad for my product and I, that, you know, really harshly ask yourself that, right? Because there's always going to be, that doesn't mean there's no way to get the news. There's always a way that means you got to massage your, you know what you're suggesting. So you're not going to ever want to tell them, press release. I mean, the business press, you may send them knowing it's not going to get any press, but just to tell the business, press, you know, we hired a CFO or a blah, blah, blah. Right. But you're trying to actually generate a media story, you know? So you may put out a press release saying, Hey, we have a new product. Yeah. Just, you know, you let them know about it, but you know, you're not going to get like a media news for that.

Tracy (09:08):

But when you want to get the actual generate the news. So, so you're going to talk about, like I said, um, figure, what is news? What do you know about what in your industry or about your product, but preferably in your industry around the bigger picture, can you speak on as an authority? And then when you're being quoted, they're always going to mention your product because why are you the authority? Well, he's the maker, blah, blah, blah, the company, blah, blah, blah. Right? So you're, you might be getting your company and, you know, sneakier that way, but basically an editorial versus arbitrary think like a newsroom think and be very harsh on yourself because they will. And once they realized, Oh, you're just, they're going to look at it like, Oh, you're just telling me a nod circle at their throat. It's not, not even telling you about it.

Tracy (09:55):

You just went from that. Right? Yeah. And part of the good thing about having a publicist is that, um, from a entrepreneurial perspective, yet we're selling you to the media. But from the media perspective, a publicist that has a good reputation. Even if they don't know who we are. Right. But they know our company has a legit, we're expecting to be separating the wheat from the shop. It's essentially, they don't want to see us a publicist. I mean, we can't center, Hey, press release. Carpet company has new, uh, as new cleaning service, we would never get another presser is open to get, you know, having a publicist is that credibility. And I've even had entrepreneurs be told, go get your publicist. You know, when they've reached out to media, which I thought was ridiculous, because you should be able to tell a story. And normally you can, but in one or two cases, maybe it was because of the way they reached out or something.

Tracy (10:47):

But the reporter, actually the editor said, look, that's nice, good story. Having a publicist reach out to me. Right. But they want it. They don't want to try to be wasted thinking about how many emails you got today, but they're not there. They don't have time to like teach you and massage you. How to talk to media. Yeah. Give me a story. They might print it. They might interview you. It's gotta be ready to go. So you have to be really harsh on yourself. Understanding if it is, if it isn't, now that might make an ad. If it's not a story, think of a story. Yeah. You are in through your background story. Why are you doing this? What brought you to this field? What is something there's always something in there. People have a hard time finding that sometimes, but there's always something.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (11:28):

Yeah. And I think it's good to stop air at this point and say, um, before you embark on this path, you need to check your patients too, because, uh, this is not, if you're lucky enough that something is going on big in the world, you might get, uh, you know, because it is happening right this minute. But you know, I was watching the news the other day and they were doing a story on somebody that had filmed probably back in March or April before the pandemic even hit. And so, um, you know, I guess the thing is that sometimes even though they film these, you're not going to get, you may not always get instant gratification off of it. So we need to, this needs to be a long-term play.

Tracy (12:16):

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And you have to realize that you're building relationships with your limit, your relate, your media relationships are limited where you live, even if you were like in a giant media center, there's still only two newspapers with two editors or, you know, in one, one big TV, couple big TV stations, and you don't want to be burning your bridges where they're like, Oh, that guy get, he always send me no, like understand what they need when you reach out. But also don't forget. Uh, there's also a ton of opportunity to start with like community television, like your cable whatever's there, or your local weekly newspapers that actually have a mandate to highlight the local community. Right. Those are often great places to start to tell your story and to get those first couple of links. Yeah. And, um, really it's all about, you know, before you even reach out to any of them, before you reach out to you as a podcaster, you have to, you know, tell your own story in that compelling little paragraph that makes people understand what you're, you know, what you can bring to the table too. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (13:14):

Yeah. And I don't recommend, and well, let me ask this as a question. I don't recommend going out and trying to find charity work in order to promote your business. But if you're involved in a charity or you're involved in some other kind of human interest type story, those are always good because it's not a sales, you know, you're helping the community by doing this. You just happen to get some publicity.

Tracy (13:41):

Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? You bring up a good point there too. Like that's all it apps. I mean, I come from a human rights perspective and an activist, so a hundred percent, that's always, you know, always good. But just even to build on that a little, even if you're not doing like a charitable thing or a particular, you just talked about, you know, what you opened up there is the other side of yourself, not just your hard business self. Right. And everybody has it. So even if the, even if it's just your personal interest, like say you're a passionate Beatles fan, like me, or you're you really love snowmobiling or whatever your thing is. There's media talking about that. So look at maybe that media, and then you're, you're in there talking about your passion or whatever it is. But again, there's always a descriptor of who is this guy I'm talking to.

Tracy (14:26):

So they're talking to me about the Beatles of Glenn. If I go on a Beatles, odd gas, just to try to go with my passion for the Beatles or whatever, you know, they're always going to talk, they're going to introduce me before I go. So they're going to say, we're talking to a publicist Tracy Memorial, Memorial media, and right there, that's giving you again, somebody may be attracted to you because of that human side you showed to yeah. From a business perspective and they may choose you from a business perspective for that reason. So, yeah, absolutely.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (14:55):

Yeah. And that's kind of, you know, I'd had a conversation not long ago about being vulnerable and this gets back to that. We need to open up, be vulnerable kind of show ourself and who we are. Uh, you know, it's something simple as even like, if, uh, if you like dogs that, you know, we show dogs in our pictures, we show them with us, it's a connector. People want to do business with people that have like interest or feel the same way that they do.

Tracy (15:24):

Exactly. Exactly. And that's more and more true now. Like your vibe attracts your tribe, you know how they say that personally, but I find that's very true in business too. I mean, I've always been very genuine who I am a public PR company. It's an open, you know, I get the bright red hair that I, the mom told me not to get 20 years ago when I was a kid. What happens when you can't do it in 18? And you know, I couldn't go into corporate boardrooms. You know, I couldn't say, Oh, I need to tone that down or need to, but I also worked in entertainment. So it's all about how you present yourself to get to know what's appropriate. If you break a rule, like for example, having bright red hair and instead of being stuck, you know, you have to, otherwise you have to be presented.

Tracy (16:04):

Well, you have to know exactly your environment. You have to dress well, you have to have a resume that reflects, you know, your skills and that, you know, so it means if you can, you know what I mean? You can break rules if you know what the rule be within reason. If you know what the rules are and what's appropriate. And when to be, you know, and sometimes that can become your calling card, right? So people will come to you for, you know, they want, you know, who knows. They want that at this point, everybody comes to me just for my resume. But early on, maybe people would come to me if they w if they wanted, if they felt more everyone, you know, that maybe they feel more comfortable with me rather than the corporate suit and tie guy. And so I'd get a whole, you know, who knows what brings someone to you, but we never know who doesn't come to us.

Tracy (16:46):

Right. Like, I don't know about the businesses that I've maybe lost. Cause someone looked and said, well, I don't know what the red air Publix is. Right. But we know about the ones that come to, you know, so it's quite possible that people and that's okay because you can't serve no matter what your business is, you cannot serve. Everybody serve the people that are, you know, your, whatever, your, you know, your, your audience, your vibe, your, um, your demographic. It could be many demographics, but don't worry about you. Can't, you know, like you can't please, everyone, like your mom always told you, you can't like, it's better to be genuine and be real. Especially now all eyes are on us. We can hide social media is killer. If you're true, pretending to be something you're not, it's going gonna, you're going to come out, you're going to slip up something that doesn't put that Eric or your bills, you know?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (17:33):

Yeah. The other thing too, that, uh, I had been interviewed for a story a long time ago, and it wasn't like a, uh, I don't know what you, I guess you call it a feature story. It was a network that they have a string reporters doing stories that I guess go directly to internet, things like that. But even though we don't get featured on the news, it there's still value to having those, uh, little blurbs that come out from, uh, you know, on an ABC or NBC or big, uh, network website as well. Not only the story itself, but the power of the back link coming from that to your website eventually.

Tracy (18:20):

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (18:25):

Yeah. What, what did, uh, what did they call those? Um, w I guess, what, what did they call the kind of story that, that is, I guess it's just filler for something for them to have. They just have to have so many high volume of stories on their website.

Tracy (18:44):

So you mean for like aggregate, you mean the aggregate news site kind of thing, where you see all that, where they don't do it, their own story, but you see the link it'll know

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (18:53):

This was, uh, she actually worked for NBC. And so she called and she was doing a story. I don't even know on what, but like, she called me, got a little blurb from it to post it to the big network site, but it wasn't like a feature film. You know, it wasn't a feature that came out on the five 30 news or something. Yeah.

Tracy (19:16):

Yeah. They do that a lot. Like they, cause they actually do their own news beyond, you know, the way you see the 22 minutes of the news. Right. They've all, they're all like. Yeah. Like most of the, the, um, if you go like any, any TV stations at like CNN or wherever, right. Whoever NBC, you'll see like, you know, their TV, their little TV pieces, but also with their TV piece, they'll have an actual article. Well, who wrote that article? You like a print article, you know what I mean? We'll be like click here to see our TV a piece or, you know, when it aired and then here's this whole big, so yeah. So there's, or there's yeah, they there's a lot, it's not just filler. It's like, that's, that's the bulk of what they are, what they are or what they have, you know, what comes out of the 22 minute news and TV is, you know, whatever. But they, they drop people because they're their news sites in general. So they're beyond put on the GB right there. Right? Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (20:10):

Yeah. And you know, we look at it. The other thing that it's a little bit out of the scope of the media, but it's these back links. And so we look at the power of the back link and where somebody that has linked to our site come from, you know, there's power in that when it's a huge site Lincoln back to us. So there's, you know, there's all kinds of value to be found. Even if we can't become the feature story, they're still there.

Tracy (20:37):

Yeah. That's I mean, that's exactly, that's why. And that's why a lot of these podcasts, like yours are just as valuable as, you know, being on whatever, being in the newspaper day that might or might not be stay online. But you guys are really good at SEO. You search my name later. You're going to come up with five other pots. Cause I've done are going to come up. So later on, you know, when somebody comes, Oh, who is this Tracy memoria that I'm talking to you on LinkedIn? Yeah. They can look at my bio. They can look at all that stuff. Right. That I say in my bio. But how do you verify that? Are they going to call up the awards show? Well, I guess you can look at the pictures. You know what I mean? But I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Tracy (21:12):

There's a lot of cases where people have a bio this big, whatever. I'm not checking. I just assume it's true. Right. But when I go and if I search Google their name, and then I find them, you know, you find 10 podcasts of me talking around the world. I can't fake what this knowledge that I'm giving. I can't think so. Number one, there's the, the, the credibility that somebody else is talking about what I'm doing. Right. And also you're actually in a deep dive with that person about it. So when someone sees, okay, there's 10 Tracy Lamar is on podcast. I'm going to go click and start listening by the second one. Oh, here's bang. Here's one in Texas, whatever. But then they started listening and really, she knows what she's talking about. There's a half, you know, you have a half an hour deep dive with the length.

Tracy (21:59):

So this could be way more valuable than that little, two minute NBC thing, because now someone that listens, they can actually hear and understand, Oh wow. She has a lot of knowledge. I really want like to get, you know, I liked her personality, you know, they could, by the end of this really decide, Hey, I want to work with that person. Right. You know? Right. Or just the credibility or whatever it is. Like, it's just, you know, you're building your brand, but there's more than marketing in this world. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So everything in the world, I mean, you serve people, search you when they date you. They said she wouldn't make you where they rent your apartment, you know? So get out there, don't be shy. Like you got expertise you're, you know? Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (22:38):

Well, we'd like to do business with, again, like we've talked about people that we connect with and think the same. And so listening to your views, uh, you know, on how you would proceed with handling somebody, media relations, it's very important for them. I think it, it gives us a chance to become comfortable, uh, you know, cause we're all stretched across the globe nowadays. So it's a kind of a long distance way to be, you know, become comfortable with one another. So why don't you tell us a little bit, um, I know you've got an upcoming book, um, get repped, build your brand with effective public and media relations. Why don't you tell us a little, when is, when is that expected to come out?

Tracy (23:21):

Well, I'm hoping spring and so is my publisher. Everything is literally done except me. He said in the final version, it was the most publicized publicizing everybody else. But yeah, the way that came about is, um, one of my early clients that's been with me for six or so years. She originally hired me, um, to, uh, to get her book out there, a business book called the 30% solution. And that's her brand is about civility and how that can, you know, um, we're taking a retention of, uh, of, um, potential clients and our, your staff and all that stuff. Anyways, we made her book a business bestseller and she was, um, after that, she decided to basically start her own published this, do self publishing instead, and to start a company where she would publish other people's books, soft skills business. So now she's got about 10, probably 30 by now.

Tracy (24:14):

Initially she had about 10 and it was, they're doing really good and they're rocking. And she asked me to literally write the book on public relations because we had helped make her book, a business bestseller like that. So she does business and soft skills and all that. And she thought a book on PR would fit. And I always wanted to be an author. I used to be a writer as a kid, never published anything yet. So, Oh, is that I went so, you know, I jumped, they asked me to write the book, but so this is my first book, hopefully birth of many. And this is, you know, professionally about what I do and what you, how you could. And it's about how people, what people can look. A lot of the things we're talking about here, what people can do on their own, what they should do on their own or what they, what they should get a publicist for, what they, and some champs, you know, each either way, what you can, you know, how you can do it, if you'd go and get alone and how you can choose a publicist if you're doing that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (25:03):

Okay. Awesome. So Tracy, we thank you for taking time out of your day to be with us. Uh, so what is one tool that you use throughout the day? Uh, either business personal could be a tool, a habit, but what is something that you use every day that you just couldn't do without?

Tracy (25:21):

Um, well for sure, the injury, the injury webs, I literally built my business with an internet connection and, you know, a crappy laptop 10 years ago and you know, a lot of belief in myself and all that stuff. So literally, you know, other than, you know, my family and all that stuff, but yeah, honestly I think the, the, we have the world at our fingertips right now, literally in ways that previous generation than previous entrepreneurs could only dream of we for those, you know, people sitting around, you blame the, washed, everything on Netflix during COVID, you know, there's a lot of ways you could be using your time to your true advantage. But on the other side of COVID, you know, you've, you're still standing when other people have fallen and you you're there to help lift them up instead of, you know, just being down. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (26:13):

Yeah. And that's, you know, one thing that, uh, we've actually started doing more cooking and food preparing, which has been kind of fun and interesting, uh, through COVID. So yeah, I think you make a good point. Uh, also there is that we should, uh, it's not fun, but there are other, a lot of things we can do besides Netflix to occupy our mind, learned a new language, read a book, cook, whatever. Well, Tracy also, uh, tell people like, who is your client, what you do for them, and then how they reach out and get ahold of you.

Tracy (26:46):

So my clients are literally across industries. I work in the standard, obviously with entertainers, I work with a lot of authors and public speakers, you know, which people would expect, but also I work with, uh, luxury real estate agents. I work with, um, uh, life coaches. I work with counselors who work with women who have, you know, a recovering after divorce or death of a spouse. I work with, you know, as manufacturers who introduced recently beauty product manufacturers and beauty brands. I work with, uh, some marketing experts on neuro-marketing expert as the old marketing expert. So I worked with a lawyer I worked with so literally a diabetes experts are literally no matter, you know, right across the board, you don't have to be, you know, celebrity. It's just about getting you as an expert in whatever you are. There, there are thousands of opportunities that I see all the time and then we also create opportunities. So you can find me, hopefully you all have the spelling of my name down there. It's on Instagram. It's lamouriemedia. So L A M O U R I E M E D I A is Lamourie Tracy Lamourie media on Facebook, Tracy Lamourie um, on the interwebs lamouriemedia.com and, uh, yeah, I'm definitely available for consultation free consultation. If anybody wants to have a call with me personally, about, you know, how it can benefit their business particularly.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want PR and Media Coverage? First Work on Your Pitch to The Media Source. (28:16):

Okay, great. Yeah. And we will include all that in the show notes as well. So, but, uh, thanks a lot. Everybody reach out to Tracy, put her to work for you, uh, getting you some good media coverage and, um, again, thanks a lot for your time today. Uh, this has been another episode of the business of business podcast. You can find us at the business, uh, www dot the business, a business podcast.com on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube as well. So until next time, take care of yourself.

 

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com
www.lamouriemedia.com

           

Data-Driven Decisions To Get The Best Results With Your Digital Marketing with Cross Palalas

Cross is a VP of Marketing for a Media Agency at just 22 years old, I've taken over 500 of the world's top Brands & Creators to the next level!

Obsessed with success, I am an experienced data-driven marketing professional with over 7 years of experience in digital and traditional marketing. I have owned & operated a successful Marketing Agency, working for a Global Fortune 500 company to consult on holistic digital marketing strategies for Top Marketing Agencies across North America.

I am now the VP of Strategic Optimization at Secret Sauce Media where I oversee both the Paid Media and Organic Social teams. During this time, I have developed an and implemented successful Marketing strategies to drive success for over 500 of the worlds top Brands & Creators! 

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (00:03):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business. I'm Roy. We are the podcasts that we bring you great guests from a wide variety of disciplines to help you in your business. I know as a solo preneur entrepreneur, small businesses, sometimes we don't know what we don't know. So this is a great opportunity to learn about new and exciting things. And not only that, but bring in some experts so that if you do recognize that you have an issue, we can give you a place to go, you know, and find help. Uh, today we are fortunate enough to have cross palace with us. He is the VP of strategic optimization at secret sauce, media, where he oversees both paid and organic social teams. Uh, during his time in the marketing space, he has implemented six developed and implemented successful marketing strategies to drive success for over 500 of the world's top brands and creators cross. Thanks for taking time out of your day to be with us. Uh, how's everything going for you today?

Cross (01:11):

Things are going well, very excited. Glad to be here. Good. Good for having me

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (01:16):

Good. Yeah. You know, we can never get enough of marketing and the digital space for sure. Uh, it is a, uh, it's, it's an ever-changing world. And just about the time that you think you, well, let me say this for, for lay people like me. Who's this is not my, uh, you know, this is not what I do every day. About the time I get caught up on it. I talked to experts like yourself and realize that I'm probably about two or three steps behind. So that's kinda what we're going to, uh, you know, get in today is, you know, so what are some good strategies, uh, some good things that, uh, people can think about to help get their message out there and, you know, advertise and market for their business.

Cross (02:03):

Awesome. All sounds good. I know marketing is something that it's changing rapidly 24 seven, especially when you look at digital marketing it's ever-changing

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (02:13):

Right, exactly. Yeah. And with social media, you know, um, and I just, I just kind of going to throw this out there, um, to begin with, because I was, I got flooded with the guy that was sending me a bunch of ads about, uh, you know, get more likes on social media, Instagram in particular. And you know, what I think about, I guess my opinion on that is that some of the likes and chatter it's vanity, if they are not people who could be a consumer of your product. So I think we have to be sure and distinguish that factor because a lot of people that I know get sucked into, you know, paying these guys this money, and then all of a sudden they've got a bunch of followers from all the world, but they're not people who would actually ever be their clients. Exactly. Yeah. So I just feel like the, uh, you know, especially the social media, just, just be careful of who you're dealing, make sure they're reputable and they can give you a good plan. But, um,

Cross (03:18):

Yeah, people will tell you anything when it comes to social media, I've had people who I talk to and they have clients spending thousands of dollars for light campaigns on Facebook. And I'm like, why? I'm like, well, they want to make sure that people are engaging. And I was like, show me these campaigns. Cause we were spending that much on engagement. Are you really getting people who are going to use your service or are you just getting likes for the sake of having links? Right,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (03:43):

Right. Yeah. And likes don't, I don't know. I, I think you'd be hard pressed to take likes to the, uh, you know, to the phone company and see if you could pay your bill with them lithium or something like that. So yeah. We just need to make sure our strategy. So what is, uh, and the other thing, you know, well, let me ask you this, not to say it, let me ask this question. And so, you know, there are platforms like Google being, um, a lot of places, what I would call more on the internet side where people may be, uh, searching through not necessarily a social media platforms, such as a Facebook or Instagram. So does the, does it depend on the business that you're in kind of how much effort you want to put into either one? Is it usually a pretty good mix of 50 50? Or what, what is your take on that?

Cross (04:38):

I'd say it really varies. So something like e-commerce, for example, something where social media is ideal, especially if you've got very little cost products and it's hot and balls, you can get the awareness and have that bottom funnel in there and still drive, you know, really high ROI ways. Whereas something, for example, um, a little bit more lead gen related. I know I've been dealing a lot with clients who are doing, uh, solar panels recently. Yeah. For them it's, I'd say about 60%, 70% on the Google side, because it's more search space to start that relationship than it is finding on social. And then what we do is once they've gone to the site and they've started clicking around, we then re target them on social because we know that there's an interest there. And it's just about staying top of mind getting in there and they're more likely to then start converting that lead. Um, so it's definitely a very healthy mixture.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (05:34):

Yeah. And you mentioned the funnel, if you don't mind, can you just go over a sales funnel for any listeners that may not actually understand the components and the importance of that?

Cross (05:47):

Yeah. So funnels are really, really great. There's all different kinds, but the basic kind of sales funnel that I usually use is a three tiered system. So at the top you have that awareness stage. This is when people are getting to know who you are. So these are people who had no to about you. Maybe they'd see your social media video later this year ad for the first time. Okay. Now I know I'm aware of you, uh, then you've got that consideration stage. So this is where maybe they'd fill out a lead form. Maybe they're, you know, just kind of viewing your content a little bit more, getting to really contemplate or making that purchase decision. And then at the bottom you have that conversion. So you're got that person who's handing you money for the job or for the product.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (06:27):

Okay. Yeah. And you mentioned a good point earlier about lower cost items versus I guess, a higher cost, um, services and products. And typically I think that funnel kind of collapses, you know, if we're talking and I'm gonna speak for myself, uh, for this, is that, you know, if I see something I kind of like it's three, four or five bucks and I'll have to do a lot of thinking about that. I'm going to click it, get it, you know, if it works out, that's good. If it doesn't, it's not that big of a deal, you throw it away and, and know not to buy it again. But when you're talking about a 5,000, 10,000, $25,000 item or service, I think that that's where that consideration point becomes much more important is that I need to know who cross is before I write you a $10,000 check or before, you know, the other thing that we don't think enough about, I think too, is our brand, is that, um, we need to, uh, build that relationship where I have the trust in you because, you know, if I turn my campaign over to, you have basically turned my brand, my reputation, and, um, I need to make sure that we are both aligned in that messaging as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (07:43):

So it's important to, and you know, I will ask again, I asked this question to you as the, um, as the person that carries that out, you know, having that, um, uh, a long conversation before that you actually make a client it's important for both sides, because I need to be important. I mean, I need to be confident in your messaging, your what tactics, what you're gonna do, but you also need to be confident in me because you know, your reputation is on the line. If I've got a crummy product or service, if I'm ripping people off, that gives you a black guy too. So I think that that conversation needs to be had for both sides of that.

Cross (08:25):

Exactly. Definitely a conversation to be had. Another big one is expectation. So a lot of people hear social media marketing, you hear all the gurus doing e-commerce sites who are probably selling those low cost products. And, you know, they've got 20, 30 X ROI and they're spending, you know, very low budgets. Right. Um, and then somebody who's got a $50,000 service they're trying to sell expects to go online, spend a hundred dollars at half screen appliance tomorrow, correct? Yeah. A $50 product is a lot of money or even a service. So I'm going to have a much longer time that I'm thinking about this. So just putting one out in front of me at a low cost, isn't necessarily going to have me convert like this. You really got to look at how much are you looking to spend in the long run rather than putting up a little bit of money and hoping that everybody just flocks to you. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (09:15):

Yeah. And I think the other point of that, it's who you reach with that ad because you know, the low cost items, you know, you may reach that consumer, but let's say it's at $50, $50,000 service. Um, I am probably not. My messaging is probably not reaching the guy who was going to make that final decision. I, in my, in my experience, you reach a lower level person. Who's like, Hey, this is good. They kind of run it up the chain to get that interest that do you, is that a fair assessment of how that usually works?

Cross (09:53):

Exactly. Like even me, I was, uh, looking at temporary services for bringing in, uh, new hires at our company. So different hiring agencies and stuff like that. And then I started getting served ads and stuff, but I'm not the one who was making the decisions on who we're partnering with. So I'm just saying, Hey, this is a company that seems really good. They came across me on Facebook. Here's an ad, take a look, see what you can do with them. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (10:16):

Yeah. So the old, uh, aggregate Arion, um, example, it could not be more truer. I think the higher you work your way up, the price point is you have to, uh, so, and then you have to cultivate before you can reap. And, and I think that we've missed that a lot in, um, well in our instantaneous society, you know, everybody gets instant gratification. I want to, like you said, I want to put an ad out there. And then I'm just sitting here waiting by my phone. Um, you know, I, I hit the go button on my ad five minutes ago, and now I'm waiting for my phone to ring. Like I said, the lower price points. When you have a buy button, you know, you'd probably get some generation immediately, but that, um, the higher price points, I think, um, there's going to be the wider, um, that cultivation point is going to be wider.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (11:09):

And it's going to take more work because you have a lot of people, not only do I need to convince you that you need to take me up to your superiors, but then you have to start working on them. And the other thing I think that we forget is, okay, I'm a sales guy. I just pushed out this ad or this email. And, you know, I think Cross's sitting at his desk looking at his screen, just waiting for my message to come across so he can jump into action and buy. And, you know, I think we have to think about our buyers are very, very busy people. Their schedules are crammed. And so, uh, again, that gets back to maybe something more on the order of a drip campaign to stay in front them. No, you're not. Let me say that two number one, they're busy.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (11:56):

And even if they want to buy right this minute, I think that, um, it may take some time for them to get our message sink in, have time to act. But the other thing is you may not need what I'm selling right now, but that doesn't mean that you can't be a customer. So can you talk to us a little bit about, you know, maybe the, uh, kind of a smaller drip campaign where we're not like just unloading a big message on everybody, you know, kind of a data dump, but we're more just kind of dribbling that kind of keep our name in front of people.

Cross (12:30):

Yeah. So this is something that's really, really important, especially when you look at things that are higher ticket items or longterm purchases. I'll use myself as an example. Uh, my purchase journey for our car has been about the last three months so far. I still haven't made the purchase. Uh, and there's one local dealership that has really stayed top of mind for me. And I'm 90% sure when I'm ready to make the purchase, uh, in a few weeks, that that will be where I go, right. And the entire time I haven't gotten one sales message through my Facebook. It hasn't said, Hey, buy this now we've got this big deal. Wow. Slowly at first I started getting, you know, uh, some ads based on the cars. I like just going over. They were videos doing like inside, outside tour of the car is what you can expect.

Cross (13:15):

Um, that I really enjoyed because now I'm getting to know not just the brand, but the salesperson. So I feel like about almost kind of a connection there with them. And two, I'm getting all the information I need on the car without having to go through and read, which always is good to me. The more time I can save about half of the read about something, uh, the more I'm willing to go there. Right? And then as time went on, I started to see some more stuff about just like culture there. So there was one just the sales guy talking about, you know, what you can expect in terms of the relationship, not, you know, if you buy a car, we're going to save you a ton of money, but no. What, so when you come in, you know, we've got this nice area we're going to sit, we're going to talk, find out, you know, what's best for you because I may want a $70,000 truck right now.

Cross (14:02):

But reality is a, is my budget gonna afford a $70,000 buck? And B, do I really need that truck? Right. I could probably get, you know, a much cheaper option. That's better suited for me. And it was really cool to see that somebody was willing to tell you that because if I went onto most lots and said, Hey, I want that because that's a truck. Yeah. They're just going to give it to me. So the house, somebody really flipped that on its head was really a cool wake up call. And then since then, it's just been, you know, minor ads to keep their name top of funnel or top of mind. And slowly, slowly, now I've reached time. I think about the fact that I need to go get a new car. I'm like, Oh, shoot. I need to go see a, it ends up being, I printed it out, but it's a local Dodge dealership here. And they come to mind constantly because they're just always slowly giving me some information and we'll never really ask for that big purchase.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (14:53):

Yeah. It gets back to our initial con you know, we talked about the conversation between somebody doing the work, but it also goes between us and our customers. We have to have that conversation because, you know, unfortunately in the, in the past, if you walked onto the lot and said, uh, I'd like to look at the 70,000 when I'm, I'm going to be like, actually we've got a 90,001 over here that I'm going to try. Do you want to, you know, we don't, it's selfish, but, um, you know, we're always, I guess we think that this is going to be the last sale that we ever make. And so we always try to push somebody up instead of thinking about, I want to make this customer for life. So what do you need? You know, the question, and I'm just kind of using your example, but you know, what are you going to use this for?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (15:36):

Do you really need that with this 40,001 certifies because, uh, you know, trying to do the right thing for your customer. And it's just like in a, you know, in my business and I don't want to sell them, sell somebody, a bunch of stuff that they may or may not need. I would rather try to give them what they, what they need, what they want, because I want them to come back. I want them to feel that I'm honest. I don't want to, I don't want them to walk away at some point and say, wow, I just got ripped off because I got sold all this stuff. You know, it may have done what I said I was going to do, but it was like stuff that somebody didn't really need. So again, having that conversation to try to determine what are the needs of you, your client, the other thing you, you bring up, that's kind of a, another soap box of mine is the, the, the way that we follow up.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (16:29):

And if I was to ever get your email, you know, a lot of times you, you get these like, okay, you came in and he looked at my vehicle's like, Hey, cross, you came in on last Tuesday night and looked at this truck. Are you ready yet? Can you come in and sign the papers, you know, instead, and not, and maybe, maybe it has to do with the product, but I look at it that, uh, in my business, especially, I want to educate you and say something, you know, more something on the order of, Hey, I know you came in last Thursday talking about this. Here's some more information, not necessarily about me, my company, but it could be, you know, a great article. So, you know, what I've done before has taken article that I read, pull out four bullet points and say, Hey, cross, I just saw this four great bullet points on this vehicle that you're looking at buying and just leave it at that, you know, we do.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (17:22):

I think as salespeople, you know, we have the walk, the line because we have to ask for the sale. I mean, at some point I've got to say cross, yeah, let's, let's get this done. But on the other hand, it can't be cross nice to meet you. Here's the truck let's get this deal done. I mean, that's where we take out that, uh, the, that middle section and then that we need to take the time to really cultivate this relationship. Like said too, you mentioned build trust. You need to trust me that we're doing the right thing. It's so important, but I think that's a big part of what we skip nowadays. I just want to send you an email and then I want you to email me back saying, uh, let's buy the Nina, let's get this thing done. And it just, I don't know. What is these, what are the current stats on, uh, touches before somebody actually makes a purchase?

Cross (18:14):

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, depending on who you ask and how their funnel is set up, it's very drastically different, but what I've seen, uh, I love to use the Facebook attribution tool, um, just because it gives me a sense I can hook up all my different ad platforms to it and aggregate everyone's information. Okay. And it's crazy. You really get to see, uh, I'll use dealerships as an example. Uh, dealerships has been an interesting one because I've seen that some will start off on their mobile, probably just looking up because they're like, shoot, I need a new car. They end up on the site, they touched a little bit. Then, uh, they go on their desktop usually. And I've noticed that that's where we start to see a little bit more consideration based stuff going on. They're really diving into the information they're booking consultations, requesting pre quotes. Uh, and then we'll see it on move to mobile again, where a lot of touch points happen. And that's usually their Google ads, their Facebook and other types of ads going on and coming back. So it really is multi-platform multitouch and I wouldn't even put a number on it. I'd just say it's long journeys these days, and it's so many different ways.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (19:18):

Yeah. I think, um, again, the higher, the price point, probably the more touches that we're going to have to have in the more patients that we need to have to educate our customers. Because obviously if it's a high ticket item, it's probably more complex than, you know, the gadget on somebody's website for three or $5. So we have to educate and, uh, which kind of leads us to the point of price versus value. And, you know, I'm in the service business, I'm huge in value because I don't ever want to be a price leader. I mean, cause peop somebody will always beat you on price. So what's the, uh, yeah. So what is the advantages to, uh, you know, kind of sticking to that value proposition versus, Oh, I'm just the lowest or, you know, going for the price.

Cross (20:13):

Exactly. Value is a big thing. And something else you mentioned a little while ago was giving information, which is two really big things. So, uh, I was recently helping a business who does, um, they sell trailers, but what they do during the winter is they will go through and like winterize your trailer for the, when you come back, it's all good. They drain all the pipes, all that fun stuff. And they're ad every year for like the last 30 years has just been a photo that says, this is, you know, our name. This is what we're doing. So we're going to winterize your trailer and here's the price and said, how much does that actually work? And they had really low ROS, if anything, and out of our bringing maybe six customers and they were pumping it with thousands of dollars. And I said, okay, let's take one video of you just telling people how to winterize it themselves, give them all the information upfront so that they can do it.

Cross (21:06):

And at the end say, you know, what, if you're, you know, rushed on time or, you know, you just don't want to do it, your starting number, give us a call and we'll gladly out and do it. Uh, and automatically they saw an increase like crazy and all this stuff was a hundred dollars on the video because they didn't trust me at first. They're like, we'll see how this goes. They're just going to do it themselves. And I was like, I promise you, if you tell them how to do it, they'll understand that you know your stuff and there'll be much more willing than if they just saw, Hey, we do this. Here's the price. And, uh, since then people have a lot more trust for them. They also noticed that people who were winterizing with, um, from this video were much more likely to convert on new trailers and stuff too, because they have got this confidence in you because you weren't trying to sell them at the start. You were giving them information and providing them with the tools that they need. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (21:59):

Yeah. That's similar to a, I read this in a book years ago, but this one guy had this marketing plan. And so it was a jewelry store and what they had done some analysis and figured that they had like a 50%, um, conversion of well of making first-time buyers, long-time customer. So if you bought something for them, 50% chance, you're coming back to buy something else. So what he did, he went out to professionals, doctors, lawyers, and he, he devised a campaign that said, okay, as being, uh, you know, we want to, the doctor's position was we want to thank you for being our customer jewelry company said, we will provide, you know, what the doctor said, we've worked out this deal with X, Y, Z jewelry to give you a 50% off your first purchase. And so then it was win-win because the professional sent them out to their customers.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (22:58):

Customers are thinking, wow, this guy really went the extra mile for us to get this discount. We get a 50% discount, but the jewelry stores thinking, even if I give away my first sale, I know that 50% of these people will come back and buy something else. So, you know, we have to kind of think outside the box, interesting concepts like that. And I think like you said, um, number one, this trailer company, they showed people they knew, but also if there were different things that they were doing above the competition, they kind of highlighted, we go the extra mile for you as the customer. And then the other thing it's like with me, I see that. And I'm like, Oh, I thought it was just turning the tap to drain the water. I didn't know how to do all of these things now. It's like, I don't have time to do that. Or I'd rather take it to the expert and just let them handle it.

Cross (23:51):

Exactly. And it's really cool. I love working with Julie companies because I've learned that they can be really, um, unique in how they do stuff. So a lot of people just think, you know, it always sends back the price. And so Julie, a lot of times we'll just like, okay, we're having a big 50% off sale today. Um, and one of the best campaigns I've run for a jewelry store instead of giving any kind of discount. What they did was, um, if you came in and purchased over a thousand dollars jewelry, you were get, uh, what came to about a hundred dollars, $120 cleaning kit for your jewelry, with all the products you need to be able to really shine it up and make them sparkle like new. And they had a ton of purchases cause people really wanted that for the long run. And then what they also saw is people didn't then expect something.

Cross (24:37):

The next time they came back, because the second you give somebody a discount, people said to expect discounts. Like I know there's certain restaurants I go to cause I know they always have a discount. And if I ever went there and they did have a discount, I might just leave and go find out special back at it. Whereas if you give someone something for free, they're not going to always expect, like I wasn't going to go back there. If they gave me a free dessert and be like, okay, next time I go, they're going to give me a free dessert again. And it's really interesting that that's how it works. Like if you start discounting, it's just expected. But if you give someone a little gift, it goes a long way and it don't always expect that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (25:12):

Yeah. And people love those free gifts. I mean, yeah. It doesn't matter how small they are, but people love to feel like they're getting something, you know, for being, uh, being your customer. So, um, how do we integrate, um, our emails? So, you know, I get somebody to sign up, I get their email. So what is a good plan to time these, uh, how, how often do we want to send them out? Things like that.

Cross (25:43):

Yeah. So, uh, I'm gonna tell you something different on this one. This is something where I usually say, uh, based on just even personal preference. I hate when I get emails weekly or daylight, there's one guy in my inbox right now. I just need to unsubscribe it from, but I don't read anything because daily, he sends me an email and it just drives me crazy. Nobody's got the time to read that much content. Nobody wants to see you that much. Right. Um, I've always said bi-weekly or monthly is usually the best when it comes to emails in his letter, especially if you want to have a high open rate. Um, cause the more you get in people's face, the more we're kind of tiring that's, especially on. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (26:19):

Yeah. And dependent upon, uh, you know, kind of what stage you're in. You bring up a good point about not looking at emails and I'll know, uh, you know, I'm still kind of the old fashioned that look at a lot of mine. You know, the unlike you, I have those same people every day I just get rid of, but it's another part of our conversation with our client, with our trying to build this relationship is how, what is the best way me to contact you? How do you like to be contacted? Then let let your buyer tell you, cause you will be surprised that buyers mostly expect that they're going to be contacted. Very few are naive enough to think they're going to walk in somewhere and get you're going to give them, uh, you're going to try to sell them. They don't buy in that. You're not going to follow up in some way. So, you know, if they say I don't want anything, then you have to respect that don't follow up. But a lot of times they will gladly give you an email or they may be, they want a text or something like that. So just be sure and ask that question. Yeah.

Cross (27:18):

A hundred percent. And it's funny what you'll learn to. Um, for example, I was working with a business and Toronto, Ontario, there's a lot of universities, a lot colleges. And so they have a lot of international students and I was working in the business who asked that question. They were like, what's the best way to contact you and like to keep communications up. And their number one response was WhatsApp because a lot of them were international students. Yeah. And it was something that they'd never even thought of. They were like, okay, we got emails, social media, we've covered all our bases. And they were like, no, no, if you WhatsApp me, that's the best way because I'm on there talking to family, I use it for like, even my communications out here. Cause they don't need to pay for, uh, like mobile service. They can use wifi and it was really awesome for them. And then, um, WhatsApp's also kind of nice because it's owned by Facebook. So there's a lot of integration there that if you want to advertise through it still, you still have that ability.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (28:09):

Yeah. I'll have to admit. I'm not, uh, I'm a slow adopter. I haven't made it around to one WhatsApp yet. I can barely work my, my phone and my email. So I'm trying not to add anything right now, but yeah, that's a good point that, you know, we just never know and we want to reach people where they are. Uh, one, one other thing to kind of, while we're talking about messaging is the importance of being honest, truthful, um, because, and the reason I thought of this, I've got a guy that started texting me. They, um, you know, it's that time a window when we sign up for new health insurance at the end of the year. And so I had a guy that called me from a far away city or I knew where he was and said, Hey, you know, I'm your, uh, insurance rep health and care representative.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (29:00):

And then, you know, I started getting all these texts from his office, like, Hey, I worked for this guy and we're your new representative? And they weren't. I mean, all cause you know, I know who my representative is and it's not them. So, you know, I just think instead of tricking somebody, cause that's all, I mean, you may trick me into calling you, but I'm just going to be mad. You're not your, I think your chances of turning somebody very slim. Uh, but I guess, you know, it's predatory. Maybe they just try to get unsuspecting people. But I think that we really have to look at our messaging, be honest, be transparent because we want to reach people who want to, who need our product would maybe want to buy our product. You know, we don't want to be just hassling people just because we have their email.

Cross (29:51):

Exactly. And it's funny, you mentioned, I just had recently on LinkedIn, so I'm VP at a big media agency. And so most of the roles that I need are marketing related role and I've put up a post just saying, Hey, we're hiring. Like, let me know if you want interview or if you have a resume and I'll a pass along and had this guy send them his resume, he was like, yeah, I really liked the talk. And I took a look at his LinkedIn before we hopped on the call. So I shouldn't even have accepted it. But I saw that he had like a small agency, I thought maybe, okay. Maybe he just wants to move over. And I got him on the phone for, what's supposed to be an interview. And for an hour he tried to sell me on why I should outsource the work to him. And I was like, are you kidding me? I was like, now you've put a really sour taste in my mouth. Right. All I'm going to do is anytime somebody asks about you or I see you on social. Cause I'm going to bad mouth because I have this new tricks to me. Like I didn't want to get sued by you thought this was an interview.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (30:48):

Right? Yeah. And you know, I'm glad you bring that up to the LinkedIn component because I think LinkedIn is it's uh, what, depending on what you sell, it's a good platform to reach out to other professionals, especially if you have a service. But again, I think that there's an etiquette that we have to follow and uh, you know, it's like, I am, I guess what they call the open source or whatever, where, you know, I will accept anybody's, uh, request. I'm not, you know, I want to build my network because I feel like that, you know, I can refer people out to things that I don't do. So I always love having a big network of other providers or other professionals. Well, what, um, you know, what I dislike is that sometimes, you know, once you join somebody, then all of a sudden you get the, that marketing email right back on top, instead of trying to build a relationship or give me time to see really who you are, what you do. And then also it it's for something that is totally nothing that I would ever need or use. And so, um, you know, I realized some of that is probably part of getting caught up in a wider net, but can you kind of speak to, uh, using LinkedIn as a marketing platform?

Cross (32:11):

Yeah. I really love like that. So if you're trying to build awareness, the two best platforms right now, um, because of the lack of content on them compared to things like Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter is tic talk and LinkedIn, their algorithms are so nice. And the amount of content is so little compared to these other platforms that you can put out one post and just blow up. That's all really takes. So I really recommend beyond these types of platforms, if they fit you, um, and keeping things on LinkedIn professional based, but also understanding that it's not a sales tool at the end of the day. So my biggest pet peeve as a consumer or a viewer on LinkedIn is when someone sends me a connection request and their first message is a sales message, right? It's the easiest way to get deleted from my network is the, send me that as your first message, right?

Cross (33:08):

And I always say, treat us a little bit as social media. So you've got your posting giving out content and then the sales funnel think of it or on the message side. Think of it as in-person sales, you wouldn't talk to me and be like, Hey, I've got a product for you. You should buy it. You would try to butter me up at least like, you'd be like, Hey, this is what you do. Awesome. This is what I do. Maybe at the end, you give me a business card. I say, I'll also reach out to you. And then maybe a week later, try to sell me. Yeah. But don't just reach out and expect to get sales because it just makes most, I've never heard somebody who enjoys getting outreach to for sales and the first message

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (33:42):

And you bring up, that's a good, a good analogy is that when, uh, you know, if we were to meet in person, we wouldn't shake hands and I'm like, you know, here's a invoice. If you'll just go ahead and sign up for this. I mean, it's, and I think that, I guess that we feel social media of some is that some distance that, you know, people think that they can do anything and get away with it, but we really have to kind of think of it as that in-person meeting and what would we do? How would we do that? We want to learn a little bit more, because again, you have to ask the question as the salesperson w what are your needs, you know, and in some, I would rather have somebody just asked me, you know, what are your needs? I can tell them I don't have any.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (34:23):

And, and also we should not get upset if we send out a message and we don't get a response from somebody because, you know, we're intruding on their time. And time is important for all of us. So just like myself, I mean, I may get 50 of those LinkedIn messages a day. I mean, if I just took five minutes for each one of those, if you can imagine, you know, you can multiply that, see how much time it would burn up to try to respond to everyone. So also patients that, you know, if people aren't interested in, we have to move on. There's actually a good book somewhere about called getting to know. And, you know, sometimes getting to know it, at least lets me know, you're not interested. We can move on and not waste any more time there. So just, uh, be, uh, just be kind and be responsible even on LinkedIn. Uh, it's very, very important. And

Cross (35:19):

It's funny that you said time too, and like people are busy. So another thing I'd see on LinkedIn all the time is even if I am looking at getting someone service is they'll send me a message. I'll read it, but I'm also working throughout the day. Right. So I'll come back to it when I have time. And if I don't mess this on back right away, I'll normally see 20 minutes later, get another message like, Hey, are you still there? Like, uh, you know, limited time. And I'm like, now you're just bothering me. At least to me, it's 24 hours. Like, I'll text you. Right. I'm not just going to go see you on this. Yeah. And I understand you need to reach out back at some point, but give it some time. Don't just like harass people. Cause you're just going to push away that sale. You're doing the opposite of what you think you're doing.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (35:58):

Yeah. Because we always need to keep in mind that even if you don't buy today, it doesn't mean that you may not need my product or service in the future. So we always have to protect those relationships. The other thing that you mentioned that, uh, I'm so out of touch with Tik TOK and tell me how a professional or even a professional services or somebody with a product would use that because I'm going to be honest and say the only thing I thought it was was like a dance platform of some kind. So

Cross (36:31):

Definitely. So I love brands who can use tech talk very well. There were some at the beginning who came out and they were just showed their representatives dancing. But for example, Starbucks said this a lot. At the beginning, I saw a lot of like local Starbucks around here who would just have their like baristas dance, the songs. And it doesn't make me want to come in anymore. It doesn't make me want a Starbucks coffee. Um, they were just trying to go with the trend, but then there were people who use it in a very meaningful way. Uh, there's someone I've been looking at purchasing, you makes a custom metal art and what he does, all his videos are just him showing you how he does it. Like he's giving away all his secrets. He just builds it in front of you in a minute long video.

Cross (37:13):

So he speeds it up. Yeah. It's really interesting a to watch it's nice content, if you don't want to purchase, and those who are looking, it was really cool to see the dedication he puts into the work is not trying to sell me on it again, he's just building it and showing me his work. But now I've gotten value out of the content it's meaningful. It's not just people dancing. And then, you know, in the comments, your usually puts a link so that if you want to purchase, you can then go check it out. I can message him.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (37:43):

And, um, I know that Tik TOK had a little bit of a scrape with the, uh, in the us a few months ago. And I, my understanding is they've got all that worked out. So it is going to be a sustainable platform in the foreseeable future going forward. So we shouldn't be scared to spend some time and money over there. Correct.

Cross (38:05):

Definitely. I don't see it going away anytime soon. What I would say is I definitely prefer to put my aide media on other sources. Um, the reason for that is it's really hard when things are so quick, like tech talks very short, uh, short form content. The longest thing you've got is a minute there. Um, so it's attention spans really flare up and it's really easy to just skip ads on Tik TOK too. You just got to keep scrolling. Um, so my paid media, I definitely prefer to focus on larger platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, where there's a little more longer format to it. Um, but I definitely feel like if you're looking at organic social tech talks a great way to do it, because like I said, there's not a lot of content on the platform yet compared to big platforms. Okay. And the algorithm is really unique in terms of, you know, instead of prioritizing like you as the engagement on it. People who have no followers can blow up overnight because it's just like content is good.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (39:04):

Okay. Yeah. And I think that's the, uh, another, um, value of hiring a professional like yourself is that, you know, you have more in depth knowledge of all these because of what the other thing I was going to lead up to was that we really need to research the platforms and the audience that we will reach there because I would just suspect that tick-tock is going to be a younger audience. Versus if I have a professional service where I'm trying to market to, um, you know, businesses, I doubt many of them reside are going to be there picking up my ads where that would be more of a LinkedIn. Whereas if you're looking at a, probably a middle-aged to older consumer with a smaller dollar item that may be, you know, putting your money into Facebook, different things like that. Yeah.

Cross (39:57):

And it's funny how quick things change. So I'm still only 22 right now. And I'm heavily on the Facebook platform have been for years. Cause I was really the first social media for me and I was talking to a family friend, who's got a kid who's 19. So only a couple of years younger than me. Doesn't have a Facebook, doesn't have an Instagram. They're only on things like YouTube and Tik TOK. Right, right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (40:22):

Yeah. And we've got, uh, we've got one of those two that she's, you know, 26, 27 that no Facebook account. And so it's, it's funny that you say that maybe it's kinda making a resurgence because it seemed like there was a group and I always kind of accused the kids of, well y'all are getting all getting off of Facebook because your parents and grandparents are on there. So you got to move off and find something different, but maybe there's a group coming back over there. Uh, so yeah, the, I think those are, you know, important points to make is that there's a lot of great avenues out there, but you just have to know, you know, where your audience is going to reside for your product service, price point, things like that. So, um, if you're doing page, you can definitely do where you're going to get the biggest bang for your buck. For sure.

Cross (41:13):

Exactly. And one thing I've got to say this, um, pixels are so, so bored, especially that Facebook pixel. I love Facebook business, my best friend, because, um, as much as I liked my Google ads at the end of the day, all someone has to do is clear their cache and all that information goes away and I've got to rebuild that retargeting audience. Whereas I found retargeting on Facebook and Instagram is so nice because it's people-based, uh, so it's very cross-device because my laptop, my phone, my TV, even all have the exact same Facebook profiles hooked up to them. So no matter where I go, Hmm, I'm getting those retargeting ads through the pixels. And the best part about it is yes, you can remove your data from a pixel, but it's very hard. There are a few people who can tell you how to go on Facebook and check off the right box that you're not getting those retargeting ads. It's not as simple as just saying clear my history. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (42:13):

Okay. Well, Krause, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. You've given us a lot of great information to think about. And, um, one thing I'd like to ask is what is the tool that you use either a tool or a habit or ritual something you do every day that you couldn't do without either your business or personal life?

Cross (42:35):

Yeah. I think a big thing for me when it comes to business is stepping back and like we decided really thinking about our audience. So I've always been addicted to a, I forget the movie. It was a, I think it's called think like a woman or something like that. It was an old movie where he's in marketing and like, he starts to think like a woman he puts on like her clothing and stuff like that. Uh, and he gets in character and I fully believe that that's a great thing to do. I will sit there and just pretend I'm the consumer to really understand what is their thought process, where are they going to grow? Uh, and I think the more you can get into who your consumer are, the better you're really going to do in business.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (43:16):

Yeah. Not to keep going. We could probably talk for hours and hours, but I think that's an, that's a good point to make is that, uh, even if you have an existing business or product, you always need to sit down and kind of design your avatar of your customer, who is the, and it changes. So, I mean, it's something you need to revisit, but these are good questions. Who is it? Uh, where do they, you know, again, where do they reside? So I can know where to target them, but you know, what are their buying habits? You know, I talked to a gentleman not long ago that, you know, they were doing a bunch of, um, YouTube ads. It was a karate studio. So they were doing these YouTube ads. They were reaching kids, you know, but unfortunately the kids, weren't the one that had the buying power to go to the studio and do this.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (44:07):

But he said, you know, after about two weeks a month, the kids actually kind of nagged the parents enough to take them in. And so it ended up being successful. It was just a little bit of delay. And so, but a good strategy is that, you know, if we can, if we can get the kids interested, sometimes they can convince to, so really sit down and think about, you know, who's your customer, who's got the buying power, how they act and, uh, revisit that every six months because things change. I mean, we're always in flux, so, well tell us, uh, number one, uh, who is your client? What can you do for them and then how they can reach out and get a hold of you?

Cross (44:51):

Yeah. So I've actually do a lot more consulting on my own outside of secret sauce lately for brands because secret sauce is more geared towards content creators. So I deal a lot with, you know, more local, small, medium sized businesses. I'm still working on my new website, so that's under construction, but if you go on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, anything, uh, my handle's always the same. It's just Cross Palalas, C R O S S P a L a L a S, definitely send me a message and we can always talk about even just conversational, what you can do to improve your business. And then we can always talk about services later.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (45:29):

Okay, great. Well, again, thanks a lot for taking time out of your day to be here. It's been a great conversation. I look forward to having you back soon and you can tell us, uh, you know, kind of update us and tell us what's going on.

Cross (45:40):

Thank you for having me. It was a great time. You bet.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast (45:43):

You bet. All right, well, thanks again for listening again. This is the business of business podcast. I'm Roy. Uh, you can find us at www dot the business of business podcast. We have a player so you can listen to, uh, share with your friends so they can listen to this episode and others. We're also on all the major platforms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, Spotify. Uh, if we're not on one that you like, please reach out. I'll be glad to get us on there. Also, we do post the, uh, videos of these, uh, episodes on YouTube. So you can go over there and check this out as well until next time I'm Roy take care of yourself.

 

 

 

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