The Business of Business Podcast

Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience with Sir Sanju Ganglani and Natalia Armani

Social media is a direct pipeline to our target audience. What a great time in life to be advertising our product and services. Video, video, video if I didn't stress that enough video is where most digital content is moving. It really exploded in 2020 and we should spend 2021 dialing in our content to resonate with our audiences

About Sir Sanju

He is the founder of gang&lani media serving the global business community across Canada, USA, Europe and Africa for the past ten years.  The company specializes in serving B2C and B2B clients in marketing: traditional and digital with primary focus on search Engine Optimization (SEO), Search Engine Marketing (SEM), Social Media, Design & Branding, Print and Website Development.   As an entrepreuner, Sanju understands what level of dedication and support is necessary to help make a business successful.  He is involved with many not for profits and charities such as NourishHope, Skills for Change. Brilliant Minded Women Foundation, Pink Attitude,  Blues for the Red Door, and Heroes in Black.  He was knighted by the Order of Saint Stanislas – Bishop-Martyer which is awarded to people all over the world for their achievements in the fields of education, science, sport, art, economics, national defense, social work, civil service and for furthering relations between countries.

About Natalia

My name is Natalia Armani and I am a social media manager, digital marketing consultant and Influencer. My goal with every person I meet is to regain their hope in people, love and community. What better way to do that than to connect people together through creating engaging content and initializing conversations with people's brands. At the end of the day, the world of marketing has changed because it is not just about your product or service anymore and this is where I come in. The purpose of marketing and social media is to communicate your values and what you represent to humanize your brand so people can resonate and associate themselves with you. Creating these ah ha moments is why I do what I do.  

www.gnlmedia.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (00:00):

Two one. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy, we are the show that brings you a wide range and diverse set of professionals that can help you in your business. Uh, you know, everything from marketing and sales to, um, uh, finance and HR issues. And, uh, you know, not only do we want to spark some ideas, maybe some things that you haven't thought about, but also if there are things that you have been thinking about, we want to give you some professionals that can really help take you to the next level, help you solve the problems, make your, uh, make your business run smoother and be a more profitable. So today we're also, uh, we, uh, we're lucky to have two guests. Uh, we had, uh, one gentleman that had been on a few weeks ago and, um, such a great conversation.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (00:55):

We decided to bring him back and, uh, an additional somebody that works for him as well. So, um, give a short introduction here, sir. Sonjay gang Lonnie. He is the founder of gang and Loni media serving the global business community across Canada, us Europe, and Africa for the past 10 years, the company specializes in serving clients in marketing, traditional and digital with primary focus on search engine optimization, social media design, and branding print, and website development. Uh, also we we've, uh, uh, special guests today, uh, in Italia Armani. She is the social media manager, digital marketing consultant and influencer. Her goal is for every person that she meets is to regain their hope and people love community. And, Oh my gosh, what a job you have cut out for you there, especially with social media and some of the crazy stuff that's going on around here for the last couple of weeks, but I want to thank both of y'all for being on and also just give a disclaimer.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (02:03):

We, uh, we live fairly close to an air force base, so you may have just heard, uh, one of our fighter jet screaming over that. It's, it's awesome. It's the sound of freedom. I know it kind of breaks up a podcast every now and then, but we love to hear them. So, uh, you just have to, we'll have to endure and talk around that, but thank you both for taking time out of your day to be with us, uh, uh, Assad as you, we had such an awesome, uh, conversation last time. So I know you, we wanted to come back and bring the Tahlia on and kind of focus a little bit. I think we're going to jump off a little bit on social media to begin. Um, so many topics to talk about and so little time, so let's get into that. Um, one thing is 2020. Uh, we finally got that behind us and we're looking ahead to 2021. So what are some of the differences that we're going to see how we use social media and what we see on social media?

Sir Sanju (03:05):

So I think if we want to compare how 2020 looks and how it's going to be looking like in 2021, I think 2020 was a really good a year to really introduce into, to focus on the use of videos. I think 2020 was really that year, that emphasized videos and video content. And I think because of that foundation, you know, apps like technical colorized or, uh, real ads and videos, it's at the end of the day, I'm always the kind of person that says if you're going to decide between posting a picture or videos 100 times over always posted it.

Natalia (03:43):

Yeah. Yeah. My modification and other modification with like Instagram, my dad did reels, um, you know, all these little things that the promoted video or encouraging the more video content like then, like Matt said, it became more the trend. Right?

Sir Sanju (03:58):

Mm. And then that even also, it would transpire with IGT views. Right. So that's why I think the funny thing is I feel like Instagram because Instagram really is the main hub. I would say, of course, Facebook groups, but Instagram is the real star. And I just find it very interesting because with the implementation of IGT me, I feel like that was a way for us to get used to actually watching longer content and spending more time on these platforms kind of like YouTube or Netflix in that sense. So I found it so interesting when a juxtapose is with tech talk and reels, which are quick clips, so to speak. So I think the difference is 2020 was really based on videos. 2021, I think is the main focus is really just going to be on building the relationships. So whether it's a real, a video or a photo, no matter what that is, I think that main goal and what people are looking for right now, or just real companies with the real beliefs and the real foundation underneath it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (04:59):

Yeah. One thing I've told him and my listeners get tired of hearing me say this. I know, but the, the difference between texts and pictures and then pictures to video, there's really no contest from all the evidence that I've read. And, and one of my favorite sayings is that, you know, a picture is like leaving a breadcrumb to your blog or to your website or your content. Whereas a video is like leaving chocolate covered breadcrumbs to the same content. It's just, it's just that much different. And, um, you know, I think the one thing you said too, that stands out is building relationships. And I think that the video of us, um, you know, because I've been around for a long time and so people, you stock photos and that doesn't really tell us who they are much about anything. Whereas the video, you can really connect with somebody with a 32nd video with a video, you

Sir Sanju (05:58):

Can communicate emotion. And that is the key to marketing. The key to marketing is making people feel the way that you want them to feel, right. Because that's how you relate brands with yourself, right? So it's like saying, for example, why do people buy Chanel perfume? Because it's, you know, it's a luxurious brand. So they feel luxurious. Social now has worked for this brand presence and for this connectivity to happen in your brain, which I think is not stated.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (06:27):

Right. So unless let's step back a minute to, um, Instagram, because Instagram is probably my favorite platform because I I'm very visual, like the pictures, a couple drawbacks that, uh, you know, what I have found, especially with the podcast, because you know, my goal of marketing, I think the limit is like 45 seconds to a minute of video. If I'm not mistaken on Instagram. And, um, the drawback to them is you can't put hot links in your description, you know, in order for people just to click through, but I still like it. And, uh, but if you could tell us a little more, what is I G T V I've seen it, but don't really know a lot about it.

Sir Sanju (07:12):

So what it actually does is it addresses the issue that you were just describing about videos, not being long enough. Okay. So the maximum video that you can post on just your regular feed in that sense is a minute long. When's your reach past the minute. That's when it turns into an IgE TV. So essentially it's just a longer video. It's more than a minute, even if it's a minute and three seconds, it's still technically an ID.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (07:37):

Okay. So I could just still post longer content the same way I post the okay. Because what I've been doing is like,

Sir Sanju (07:45):

Sorry. So the way that it works is that let's just say you have a video that's a minute and a half. What it'll do is it'll show a preview on your Instagram feed of a minute. And then once that minute lapses, then it'll get sent you a little notification that says, you know, watch the rest of the video or see more. And then that's when it'll take you to see the entire IGT video.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (08:03):

Interesting. Okay. Because, uh, you know, many years ago I tried to, uh, I did some taping of interviews, but that was in the old Skype days. And, you know, the, the struggle was getting people connected. We'd spend 30 minutes trying to connect a call like this. And then everybody was like tired and like, Hey, we don't even want to talk anymore. Cause we were give out from all the technical issues. So, uh, but now everybody, uh, you know, has come pretty accustomed to zoom. It's easy connection. And so, uh, the last few months I've been doing it, but you know, I've been taking those videos and cutting them down to, you know, 30 seconds or minutes. So that's awesome to know because of give me a chance to post a little bit longer, uh, content. Now let's just look at that in the, um, the SEO terms or maybe the attraction through the, uh, Instagram platform is a longer going to gain you any more attention or notoriety or is it all about the same?

Sir Sanju (09:02):

Well, the thing is, is that the way that, like, if you take the photo and the video, a video, we know works better, you get better engagement, you can get more people viewing it. Right. So if you have more attentions on a video, then that's obviously going to, you know, SEO or Google is gonna pick up on that a lot more because more people are, it's like, you know, flies and you know, they're going to go where they go, so to speak. Right. So in that sense of like, depending on the length of the video, I wouldn't necessarily say that that makes a difference for SEO. Okay. Um, I just think consistency and quality of videos and the content that you're posting is what's key. That's a really good question though. I don't think anyone else anyone asked me that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (09:44):

Yeah. Well, I was just thinking in context of, uh, on Instagram, I didn't know if, you know, like, like me, um, most of my interviews are anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes. So would it benefit me to, you know, I guess if we're in the middle of a point, it would benefit to like run that an extra 15 to 30 seconds to, uh, make the point clear in the video. But as far as any other SEO value, probably about the same as just posting the one minute video,

Sir Sanju (10:17):

Anything for you to do is to post the teaser or the woman, a video and drive them back to you, YouTube channel two channels are going to get the juice out of it and use the social media side of it's actually attract new followers and new subscribers. Okay. What you do on Instagram, those are the breadcrumbs. Right. And then you lead them to the user group.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (10:37):

Yeah. And so that makes it, that's a good point is, uh, especially with Instagram, because it's a little different and that that's, to me, the advantage of Facebook is you click on the, if you post it correctly, you click on it. You're taken right to that content. So what, is there any tips or tricks or works or work arounds that when I post something on Instagram and I want to drive them to my website or to YouTube, is there a way to make that easier?

Sir Sanju (11:08):

So no matter if you have a hundred followers or 10 million followers, Instagram, doesn't allow you to put links in the actual caption. Right. So that's why people usually say, you know, LinkedIn bio. So I find that whenever you're writing, like it's this, this is like a really simple trick, but it actually makes a big difference. So if you're writing Lincoln bio, what I w what I would suggest is to tag yourself right. Beside where you write your bio. So people can just click on the link, which brings you back to your profile, even though your name is there, and they can just click on it. Sometimes it just doesn't register where people are. They could do that. So, Todd, so tag your name again right next to where you say Lincoln bio, and just automatically that will give people an incentive because it's easier. Or just click on that. And then the bio is just right there. Okay. The little, yeah. And then of course, like, what you could do is then post the post to your actual video or photo on your story. And then if you, that's what, you know, if you do have over 10,000 followers, that's when you have the ability to use the swipe up feature, so we'll get there.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (12:17):

Okay. So, um, let's talk about Tik TOK for just a minute, since we're talking about videos, uh, you know, we had a conversation about that. Um, you know, I'm the old guy that thought that was for dancing teenagers. And then, uh, I think songs, you, I think you told me the story, was it a glassblower or somebody was telling me that, um, our, uh, met, uh, art, some kind of, uh, art, uh, person that build things that they had put snippets of their, uh, work that they did up on Tik talk and it had gained some traction. So I guess in, in the right use of it, it could be, um, uh, a good tool for just about any business.

Natalia (13:04):

Well, I, I kind of fall into that. Um, I'm too old for this category too, a little bit to it, but, um, what I would imagine would, would be ideal is two sides, but one is leveraging the educational side of it. So when you're selling that piece of art for $10,000, people understand why it's worth $10,000, love and labor went into it. Um, and then the other side is obviously for the, um, younger guys and ladies to, you know, interact and have a social life together and then be fun together. Right. Um, especially with the past year, which is probably why I picked up a lot of steam. Um, but I, I really would defer that back to not, I guess, in terms of the best uses or, um, or how to take advantage of

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (13:43):

The other thing I think that you made mention is even if you don't use it, at least go there and secure your, your name or make sure you get to your hands

Natalia (13:51):

Handles and came running some point a hundred percent and any social platform that, that generally comes up on, we usually recommend that our clients want at least secure the brand. Right. Because you never know, right. Tik TOK, uh, six months ago was supposed to disappear from the face of the earth. Right. Right. And suddenly now it's back in full motion and the people who didn't register there's was register are having a tough time.

Sir Sanju (14:11):

Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (14:14):

Natalia, do you want to go in a little bit, do you want to go a little deeper on the content and some things that we could do on tickets?

Sir Sanju (14:22):

No, for sure. So I think the reason why I was so turned off of Ted talk in the beginning of that, I feel like it was, I it's true to be completely transparent. I thought it was a waste of time. Yeah. I thought it was a complete waste of time because it's like, for me, what's important that I look at social media as like a beacon of news. And just to understand that the open perspective to learn. Right. So I feel like I don't to go on tech talk and waste my time, just scroll it. Cause like, even like, essentially I didn't even like the whole concept of just going through videos so quickly. Cause I feel like it does doesn't, it's almost it's it's we spent the entire year of 2020 trying to build the value of videos and trying to increase length and viewership.

Sir Sanju (15:11):

And then we have another app that just ruined it and two seconds. Yeah. That's how I felt about it. Right. And then slowly but surely after, you know, getting more on the app, I do notice that exactly what Sandra is saying and what I was going to say is that what we need to really take advantage of is the educational part. So in the sense that we do have a younger audience on Tik TOK and at the end of the day, it is still completely varied because I have people older than me using tech talks, so to speak. Um, I do think it is an app that really really hones in, on creativity, which I got that part. I do. Like there are so many options that you can do. So it's just cool because rather than taking just, you know, a regular video that you would take on Instagram, you can be a little bit creative. Nate showed us some parts of, you know, your product or yourself even right. Showing yourself in different lights. So I feel like Tik TOK is an opportunity for you to be a little bit more fun.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (16:06):

Okay. So what is the, uh, what are the, uh, I guess the restrictions of Tik TOK, as far as the length of video, is it kind of like posting the same thing? Like I'd make a video either on zoom or on my iPhone and then upload it to Tik TOK. Are there anything special or different about it?

Sir Sanju (16:27):

Well, yeah, so it definitely like maps for shorter videos. You can post videos them for 15 seconds to 30 to if it's up to one minute. But after that, that really isn't the platform for it. That's why I'm saying we'll have fun and do a little, you know, things. I think it's a great way as well. Especially if people are thinking about how does that, you know, a high, you know, professional, you know, a lawyer, an accountant or a real estate agent, how did they use tech pop? I think technology is a great way to show your team, the people that you're working with, you know, show the things that you do on a daily basis and more of like a lifestyle I would say. And again, a day it does have the opportunity to educate people and people who are younger, which I do think there's a lock in that. Right. So, yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (17:10):

You know, one thing when we talk about social media, always it comes up is, uh, you know, you have to live where your audience lives. And I know that, you know, there are different age groups, different, uh, genders that hang out at different places. And, you know, the, I guess the easiest one to think about is, uh, like Pinterest, you know, probably higher usage of women, uh, in a higher age range. And then, you know, like Facebook, when it first started, it was all younger college kids. And I think now, uh, because there's so many parents and grandparents on there, I think the kids have, they abandoned it for a while and it's coming back. But I think the interesting part would be to think about, um, how many platforms does a typical, uh, user, not, not the poster, but the viewer, how many platforms do they view across now? You know, I post because of the podcast I post on all the channels. And so that kind of puts me on all the channels looking around, but I'm just saying for that person, who's just sitting on the couch, wanting to do a little scrolling through social media. Do they stick with one, one platform? Do they have two, three multiple kind of, what are the statistics on that

Sir Sanju (18:29):

They are definitely using all platforms as possible. Even if you think about it, just sitting in your living room, if you think about it, logically some people usually have a YouTube or Netflix on, right. They probably have their laptop in front of them, maybe streaming something on Spotify, or, you know, again on food, then you can have their phone where they have access to Facebook's Twitter, uh, talk Instagram, um, you know, the list can go on and on, right. You know, there's other clubhouses, a really big app that people are going on right now, too. Um, and just, there's more and more things. So honestly, probably out of time, I would say at least three or four.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (19:10):

So, uh, what is clubhouse? I don't think I've ever heard of that one. So I'm going to tell you right now, Natalia, you're supposed to be coming over here, making it easier for me, Nanda throwing more things out here and clogging me up

Sir Sanju (19:27):

House call house is actually pretty cool. So it's basically, I like to just call it like a live podcast.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (19:33):

Okay. So

Sir Sanju (19:34):

Essentially you, you can join rooms, which every room has. Another has a specific topic. So you can look and talk with anywhere for marketing to help to, you know, moms, anything you can really find that it's really unclip house. So essentially you're in this room and there's other people there and you're just talking to each other, each other questions, you know, literally like a podcast that's live.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (19:57):

Okay. Kind of like the old in the olden days, they had a like stack lines, I guess, where you could pick up the phone, you call it a central number and there may be 12 people, you know, basically talking on that, I guess, except you can see them. So, uh, is there always like, um, is there always like somebody live, who is the kind of the head of it and putting out the content or is it just,

Sir Sanju (20:19):

Do you, have you have a moderator? Do you have a moderator and a person who owns, you know, the, the, the room. So like you could have your, like, people can follow you so to speak. So the way that that works is that you, in order to, you know, be, have your own chat, like your own room, basically, you need to be hosting sessions a couple of times a week. Okay. And then eventually people are able, you know, to follow you, you get more recognition, you know, the glow grows from there, but it is a great way to, and to really bring forth, especially if you have a business and you want to, you know, pitch to people, there's people there's, you know, celebrities go on there, you know, crank or don't, uh, you know, all these people always go in tech it's it's, it really is a great opportunity because is it true that it's by invite only and Apple only. So I know for sure. It's, uh, it's invite only whether it's Apple only. I am not a hundred percent sure. I don't think it is. I'm pretty sure that it's open to. Yeah. Um, I would say probably at Apple only, but that's because statue and I have Apple and Samsung, but we'll keep that for another day. It is invite only.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (21:28):

Okay. Yeah. I know I'm going to have to fall on the Apple side of that. Unfortunately, that's the one I got started with and I'm just like, so not afraid of change, but like I just don't have the time to try to figure out some other device right now. But speaking of devices, you know, an interesting thing happened, um, not long ago, I've just thought YouTube would be a good advertising platform to do some, and I don't know all the technical terms, but to do the, uh, the non repeat where you just have the, um, the little ad where people can skip it or something like that. And the original one, one of the second or third one I added, I, I messed up and selected a European audience, which wasn't bad. I mean, I still was getting some hits and it was good. But the one thing I noticed about them is that, um, most 75% of the viewership was on TV, on a TV device, not on a handheld or computer, which, you know, it's a little bit, uh, you know, here in the States, it's mostly, uh, phones, tablets, and then we may get on a computer every now and then, but I just thought it was an interesting, um, use that they, uh, I guess go on their TV boxes a lot and try to pick up.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (22:47):

So it just kind of just to expand that if you're doing something that's global, you kind of have to think about that. You know, when you develop something as how did the users intake this? It's not like the old days, it was all PC. So you built websites that were PC based. And then when phones came out, you know, it was like, you got the very middle part of it. It wasn't optimized for the phone. I think they've worked pretty much most of the kinks out of that through WordPress and some other things that I guess you can hard code, but when we start expanding across the world, it's, uh, also, you know, think of, take into consideration what your audience is going to be viewing your ad on.

Sir Sanju (23:27):

Well, yeah. Something as something so simple as format makes a big difference because the size that you do need is different from what Instagram story needs, which is different from what feeds need, which are different from the [inaudible]. So it's all different, right? So sometimes you can have some what I like to say at end of the day, we have probably maybe three seconds to get people to stop scrolling you're right. So in those three seconds, if they see something is off, you lost them, right? So there are very, very small, um, decisions that you have to take in order to properly post it. I don't think people understand how much of a science, so it actually, you know, there is doctor you just posting a simple photo and the work that takes, you know, behind it. But yeah, you're absolutely correct to your format is definitely a very big difference. And at the end of the day, you have to optimize for each platform. So the same way with you start off with your podcast, that's usually how the funnel goes to start off with podcasts. You post the video on YouTube snippets on Instagram and Facebook equals the entire thing and so on and so forth. Yep.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (24:32):

Yeah. And there's a lot of tools out there now, you know, like for me, I didn't post the videos for a while because I couldn't manipulate them. And, you know, I finally found me a nice tool where I could just cut a slice out of it, drop a, uh, a thumbnail over it and go on. But you're right about that. Because, so through my podcast hosts, I have this thing called, uh, it's like an audio gram where they take my podcast cover and use it for a cover and they do the audio behind it, but it's in the square format. So when you try to translate that to YouTube, which is a more of a rectangle, you have to be careful because now all of a sudden I had black space on both sides and cut the top and the bottom of it. So, you know, to your point, you do have to pay attention.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (25:15):

And I use another program, uh, to develop, uh, some of the cover art cover piece. I don't know, poster like material. And the nice thing is they ask you right up front, you know, where you're going to be using it like Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, because they size it. So the, uh, I think to your point, it is very important to pay attention to that. Because if you have something, especially if you're professional, if, uh, if you have something that's all kind of wonky on there, people are gonna doubt your ability, right. From the very beginning, because they saw this thing that wasn't right.

Sir Sanju (25:51):

Right. Exactly. And the reason there was, like I said, it was three seconds and you lost somebody.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (25:59):

So, um, another thing that you, we had talked a little bit about was posting and, um, the number of times I'm all over this. I mean, I, you know, there are times I think that, you know, less is more. And then there are times when I kind of slide back into the more is more. So give, give, give me your professional opinion on that. And then we can talk about it. You know, I'll share some of my thoughts with you.

Sir Sanju (26:28):

The key that I tell everybody, whoever asks me is that consistency is more important than posting every single day. Okay. So my rather you take the time to make, you know, quality posts start anywhere from two or three times a week maximum do that for a couple of weeks, get things ready. I always say you could be ahead of your content and plan it that way, then your best, because other than focusing on what you have to post every day, you're now focusing on how to engage with it and how to push it. So that's why I always say, start with the three times, because the reason why is that you can't start off posting every single day when you're a new, um, when you're a new, when you have a new social profile, because people will get annoyed of you really quick. So you need that happy medium, where you're not completely, you know, disappearing, but at the same time, you're still there.

Sir Sanju (27:21):

You're checking in dropping value, you know, bringing those colleagues posts. And then at the end of the day where people start doing as other they'll start expecting you to post. And they'll look for that. So what I don't want is for people to get used to you posting every single day, and then when you can't keep up with it, then we lose followers because people don't really, you know, that trust and not thought that, you know what I'm going to be getting home daily every day from this person and they don't get it. Then you kind of have a disconnect there. So start small, go two to three times and work your way up. Yep.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (27:54):

Yeah. And that that's consistent with, you know, the podcast too, is that you, you know, if you do make a commitment to a podcast, you've got to whatever you've set your schedule at. You've got to stay on it because people luckily knock on wood. I haven't had this problem, but I, you know, I know a guy that put a podcast out and he got sick for a couple of weeks and Oh my gosh, his, his audience turned on him and I thought they were gonna, you know, riot because he wasn't eating, putting a podcast out. And so it was very important to your point, that consistency because people get to where they look for it. But so here's my dilemma, my argument, uh, my point, I will try to make my case here with social media nowadays. Uh, our content burns off so fast, you know, back in the olden days, uh, when there were five of us on, uh, you know, Facebook or Instagram or whatever, it was pretty easy because when you signed on, it's like, well, you know, there's not that much content out there, but now everybody's posting, everybody's taking pictures, videos, whatever.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (28:59):

So it was like, it burns through the, on the other side of that coin, if you have, let's just take Facebook. If you have people that have liked your page or join your page or group or whatever. Well, now if you're posting 12 times a day, it's like, they're getting pinged 12 times a day. And you know, they don't like that. They're like, Oh my God, I don't, I can't stand it. So you lose followers. So I'm just thinking from, you know, like my shows perspective, we are still in a growth phase and I would love to add, you know, more, uh, subscribers in people to social media for me. So I try to walk the line between pushing enough content out there. So somebody that doesn't know about me can see me versus not angering those that are already attached to me in some way. So let's kind of open that discussion up and see, uh, you know, am I wrong about thinking that if I push more and more content out there, I'm going to get in front of people who may not be aware of me.

Natalia (30:07):

I think it's, it's more about like, like the quality of the concept. Right? Right. It's, you're providing more value. You're providing back something that they want hear or talk about. Um, and you have an opinion that is firm. Um, but obviously respectful. Um, I think you'll get a lot more traction than posting, you know, Hey look, take big picture of my ice cream burger, you know, whatever, there's a bird. Um, so, you know, so I let him know I've been shocked, but that's sort of where I would go with it. I'm especially in rural world where there are a lot of podcasts and there are a lot of people vying for attention. Um, you know, being able to bring back a certain piece of value, which you do and your stuff's is pretty awesome. Um, well thank you. I think will really help you grow much quicker and get that exposure.

Sir Sanju (30:57):

Well, I think that's where the whole notion of relationships come, right? So if you are dropping, you know, value at the end of the day, with the way that 2020 transpired, we can't be walking on eggshells anymore. People need to like, I'm the kind of person that says, you know, if you do believe in something, don't be on the fence, right. Say it, it's almost as if, you know, like how, you know, we, young people say, say it with your chest, so to speak, you know, um, what it's really about showing your stance, because that's, that's a difference that this world needs. We have too many people who don't talk about an issue directly and, you know, you kind of lose sight of what the real message is. So I think that's where the change is going, because now people are expecting this from businesses. People want to know, okay, you know, what are you doing with your, you know, simple things. What are you guys recycle? You know, simple things about, you know, going green and that sort of thing. It makes a difference.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (31:51):

Yeah. As long as you, to your point, um, you know, the last couple of weeks with all that's transpired here in the States, it's like, you know, I posted on, uh, to respond to somebody else's post I'm. Like I wish we could go back to the old days where we just posted, you know, what we were having for lunch. It was right. It was magical. It was much quieter. But, um, you know, I think it it's, it's somewhat generational. And I think people like myself are having a hard time breaking out of that because we were conditioned, uh, you know, when the internet came out professional, don't ever let your personal side out, you know, keep everything. But when we look at what are we trying to do, we're trying to build relationships. So if I never share my personality with you, well, how can we ever, you know, get connected and really engaged because if I keep it all in, you reach out to me to do business. You're going to, you'll find out you don't like me, you know, pretty quickly. So I don't, I think maybe I hate to say hide, but I don't think we should, you know, hide our emotions and our feelings that we need to, you know, if we do believe in something, put it out there

Natalia (33:01):

And look at it as going to a party, right. You're going to a party, you know, meet a whole bunch of new people or an old friends. There's still a certain part of you that you understand. Isn't, um, isn't so, you know, lines you'd cross or places you'd cross with people. Right. And I think it's sort of the same thing online, where I think is going to become a problem going forward is, you know, uh, all of our, you know, our kids are teenagers that are out there right now or doing things. Aren't understanding the potential consequences of what it brings up 10 years from now, because of everything that gets archived because of everything that, you know, it doesn't go anywhere. Usually your Facebook page, it's still there. Right. So, you know, people not under, you know, and maybe later on that may never be an issue later on who knows, but there's still a bias or stigma that's brought up by researching someone and sings, you know, down and half drunk at a party or whatever it is, or, you know, commenting on something that you're like, this doesn't align to my values though.

Natalia (33:57):

That was their personality 10 years ago. They're not the same person. Yeah. That's important. And so I think that's, that's going to be a little pop.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (34:04):

Yeah. And that's important a point to make, and I'll tell you, uh, you know, because this is a business show, we talk a lot about a lot of different subjects in HR. And so one, one place where this became very evident to me about four or five years ago is, uh, you know, I was trying to, uh, hire a, um, a media person to help me do some stuff and interviewed four or five people made, uh, you know, thought I'd made a decision. I had somebody that called me at the very last minute said, Oh my gosh, I really want this had an awesome resume. Um, and so I met with them late on a Friday night at the coffee shop and I thought, wow, this is the perfect person. So I changed my mind, but I wanted this person, but I didn't make an immediate offer.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (34:51):

I said, you know, let me think about it for a day and I'll call you. So I went home and started searching social media. And of course this is a long time ago, but, um, I found a, a hidden or not a hidden, but a Facebook page that really wasn't in her name that somehow related to her. And then there was a very, uh, I can't even tell you, but it was a very compromising picture of her. And I was like, wow. You know, I almost made a huge mistake. And so two things, number one, you know, doing the research on people. It's what I always suggest is, you know, we need to market for talent. So, uh, we need to see, uh, always how people are interacting with other people. What they're, you know, will they be a good fit for our company culture? But on the flip side of that is, you know, we have to be careful and realize that nothing is hidden or sacred and that, uh, stuff lives forever out there. And it's sometimes it's very unforgiving.

Natalia (35:54):

Yeah. And then back in there, what would you do? You do a background check? Like, what are you going to find? Are you going to find it as you know, did you do something illegal or not? That's really the bottom line right now. It's like, uh, I know she did it last summer. [inaudible] creepy stalker stuff going on. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (36:09):

What happened in Vegas? Doesn't always stay in Vegas. All right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean

Sir Sanju (36:17):

No, no, no, it's fine. Um, I always, I'm always up to interruptions when it's a joke. Um, but I do find it interesting that like saying how, like the difference between personalities in our business. I feel like now there is no, there is no difference. There is no separation. People need to know so many. So often people do business with specific people just because they like them. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (36:38):

Right. Yeah. And that's, that's really, really important. And that's what we say in sales is that people, they do business with you because they like you, you know, if everything else is fairly equal and a lot of times they'll pay more money because they like you, they like the interaction. They like the way that you treat them and follow up. So, uh, yeah, definitely.

Sir Sanju (37:03):

And that even, excuse me, following your point that you're talking about, um, being, you know, careful with who you do business with, I feel like if we're going to like transition into talking about influencers, I think not as something that's really, really big, that's going to be happening more in, you know, 20, 21, the fact that, um, influencers even like with myself, I find that I'm very, very careful with who I, you know, do business with, or I do collaborations with, because at the end of the day, we all have to protect our brand and talk about how, um, how we can connect with more people all around.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (37:43):

Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of guilt by association. If you, uh, get hooked up with the wrong person, unfortunately their reputation rep, their poor reputation can cast a wide shadow on other people that, you know, may be, um, innocent bystanders or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. So definitely, you know, I think the, um, who we're linked to on social media now has become like what your parents used to say about who you hang out with at school, you know, don't hang out with the wrong crowds or be careful because whatever they do can damage your reputation. And so I think we have to take that into consideration nowadays, you know, on the internet as well.

Natalia (38:27):

I fully agree. I think, um, reputation association is such an easy thing to break now. Right. Um, and it's so easy. See through BS, right. Um, with all the tools that we have are disposables.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (38:41):

Yeah. And I tell people be genuine. That's all it really takes because, um, people are, people have made are going to make decisions, whether they like you or not. And, uh, you can't hide from that. So just be who you are, the people that you want to be connected with. W you know, they will embrace you and like you and the other people, we don't really, um, it's not really, it's not really a point whether they care or not, because they're not, our customers are not going to do business with us anyway. Yeah. Seminal consequence. Yeah, exactly.

Sir Sanju (39:15):

Well, that's why I think that's why, if we're going to talk about what we were saying previously about not walking on eggshells anymore, at the end of the day, if you're a company that believes in something, and that's what you set your foundation on, and you project that onto other people and share that message with others. Right. And if they're not accepting of it, then at the end of the day, they weren't your customer, they weren't your client in the first place.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (39:42):

Exactly. Yeah. And, uh, gets back to, we talked, you know, kind of touched on the stock photos and that's something, you know, I talk about a lot is that I think businesses need to get out from under that and start showing more, you know, of themselves, take pictures of your staff of your own equipment of your own building facilities. Because, uh, it, just, to me, it speeds up this process of getting to know each other versus, uh, you know, going and buying the stock, cartoon, cartoonish picture, and posting somewhere. I still have to, it's harder for me. Uh, you know, I'm not lying when I say that it's harder for me to let that go because I've been, uh, you know, for so many years of the internet growing up, you've been told to protect that and not do it. So I'm not going to tell you that I'm good at that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (40:35):

I still struggle with it, but I think that's something that we've got to overcome. Um, and the pandemic, you know, there's, as we're talking, you know, there's vaccines coming out and there's things that are changing, but I'm still a little concerned about how long this is going to last. And so instead of being able to get together in social environments to get to know people, or, you know, in-person environments, you know, social media for, at this moment, anyway, it's going to be a large part of, uh, having that, um, introductory process and getting to know each other to build relationships, excuse me.

Natalia (41:16):

Um, and I really think the, um, the stock photo thing, that's not an evil thing. Right. It depends on the industry. Um, and it depends on what you're trying to convey. Some things, no matter how much you try to photograph it, you can't convey that experience or feel right. Right. And maybe it's already, but people like let's say a doctor's office or a chiropractor or a dentist, you can't put stock photos up because number one, they're gonna be like, that's not your practice. Number two, Hey, I want you to work with that hygienist. There's so many issues. Now we use it for, let's say, you know, as someone who's a vacation luxury guy and he wants to convey the joy of someone eating on the beach. Cool. Right. It's a stock photo. No problem. Yep. Right. So I think there's a bit of a balance in terms of how they're used and where they're used. Yeah. Um, and then also, uh, you know, to be fair, the frequency they're used, if every single image has stock photos, then you know, obviously there's a component of laziness there, um, that maybe we considered. Yeah. Even though they shouldn't be calling us, there you go. So the, you know, the internet, or

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (42:19):

Let's not say the internet as a whole, but let's say platforms have gotten very noisy. I mean, especially with the last year, people are more time on their hands or taking advantage of it. But, um, let's talk about for just a minute, the, um, just, uh, I don't know what you would even call it, just like a, a 15 to 32nd video filming of your iPhone. Like, uh, you know, you had some company today, and so now you're going to get on and share it with the world. Uh, are these advisable, I mean, I know, I guess it depends on the context and a lot of things, but just in general or are those drawn attention, is there so many of them that people are just blowing them all off? Kind of what, what are y'all's thoughts on that?

Natalia (43:03):

So I'm going to, I'm going to go first. Cause I know now it's going to give a serious answer. I absolutely get annoyed so badly about those things. Um, like I'll literally be sitting next to my wife and she'll be going through Instagram stories and I'm like, who is this? And why do I care? Why do I have to listen to this right now? All right. So yes, to everybody, there's an audience, you know, things that you should be telling, maybe your family, friends over the phone that maybe people don't necessarily care about. I don't like it when you're being forced to care about it. Right. Um, from a serious standpoint, I guess I'll leave it in that. But that's my, that's my little spiel on that.

Sir Sanju (43:45):

Um, I'm going to be honest guys. I, I didn't catch on what Roy said was, it's kind of ch

Natalia (43:50):

So, Oh yeah. So what he's asking is saying, you know, when, when you have an epiphany or you have something really valuable that you want to share, let's say you get up in the morning and like, Oh my God, I just figured out how to bake cheese or I make waffles or Mickey mouse. Um, you know, is it make sense or is it of any value to go online and post that right away or share that with the world? Or, you know, like, how do you handle that

Sir Sanju (44:12):

For me? I think it's what, like, your intention is behind it. Okay. So for me, for example, sometimes I like, I'm very big on motivation. I'm very big on positivity and I post that, you know, those kind of things on my Instagram. So for me, I had posted the other day I was breakfast. And so I eat plantain. So I was very happy because my plantain was ripe and ready for me to eat. And it's like an avocado, like when you buy avocados, like you have to wait so long for them to ripe it. So I had posted on my Instagram when you don't want life is good. My plans are rights, right? So it's like, for me, it's my, like what my goal behind that, you know, a little Instagram story was to show people how happiness is a choice. You can choose to be happy about certain things and not that, you know, transpired throughout. Uh, I think it all depends on what or what you're trying to show. People are going to want to tell at the end of the day, people are going to see through it or not. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (45:14):

Yeah. And I I'm just conflicted because two, three, four years ago, you know, I did more of them. I would put them out, but then to Sonja's point at, um, I've got some people I know that I follow now that it's like every day, I'm like, ah, you know, I can't get past it fast enough because I'm like, and maybe it's just because their, their message isn't to me. Or maybe it's my personal feeling. You know, I don't know what that's about, but, uh, cause I do suggest it to, you know, customers or people that I talk about. I'm like, you know, if, if you can be genuine and real and have a good point to convey, there's no better way to do it. But then on the other hand, I've gotten to the point, I feel like it's one of those things that everybody's doing it. So it gets discounted to some point. It's not like it was three to four years ago.

Natalia (46:07):

I mean, like if you're going to sit here and tell me that you saw a lady in the grocery store wearing pink pants and you thought they were really weren't flattering to her, like, I don't care. I'm going to sit here and tell me, Hey, listen, I figured out the formula of how much of your marketing budget you should be spending based on the revenue that you're accumulating. And if you follow this formula, you didn't raise investment right now we're talking to something. Right, right. Right. So, so that's, I think that's really different than, and again, that may come down to personality and preference, like maybe that's just my mindset versus somebody who's interested in the pink pants and the grocery store. Right. Like personalities, personality, I guess. Right. Yeah.

Sir Sanju (46:38):

At the end of the day, I do think, and the beauty of marketing is that there's a story to everything. Right, right. So that's where again, all the serious side of you comes out because at the end of the day, it's important to address these things. And it's important to like Instagram is not only just supposed to be about perfection. And I think that's something that all our people understand. It's not just about, you know, the perfect picture or the perfect video. And I think often times, if you want to even think bigger than that, you know, so often we don't try or we don't go ahead of things because we don't think they're perfect. Right. And the whole point of Instagram is to show the realness and the raw, you know, the raw behind the scenes of the way things actually look like.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (47:24):

Good. And I think we can say, [inaudible], I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

Natalia (47:34):

I said like how she flips out when her plantains aren't there.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (47:37):

Right, right. Right. Well, I think we might need to take, um, you know, talk about this from the viewers perspective for a minute, because it's become a thing that, uh, you know, people view only perfection on the internet. And so they're like, well, why is my best life? Not this perfection now just like me, I got the shirt on and I might take a picture of it right this moment. But not 30 minutes ago when I had it buttoned wrong. And it was all jacked up, you know, people don't post, like you said, you know, we don't post the imperfection. And I think that's, uh, you know, a big message to users or to the, you know, the viewers or the consumers of this content is a lot of times people don't post those imperfections. They're only posting the high points of their life. There's a lot of imperfection in between.

Natalia (48:28):

I agree, but I I'd argue not to get too deep into it. Um, but I'd argue that that's been our culture. Right. Whether it's been print media, we're not transitioning to digital media, you're never seeing what's wrong or what shouldn't be right. Or what it took to get there. Right. Right. And I think that's just culturally, that's what we want to consume is that perfect lifestyle. Um, and obviously it drives the other half of us crazy because we're like, why are you competing with someone that does actually exist? Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (48:54):

Exactly. They themselves don't even look like that. Well, you know,

Natalia (48:59):

She does a podcast comparisons before and afters and the reality [inaudible]

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (49:04):

In so many times we view somebody as a, um, overnight success where they're not, they've been working on this image or this product or this thing, you know, for many, many years, it just, all of a sudden it blew up. And so a lot of times, I don't think, especially kids coming out of school, uh, nowadays is that there's a lot of hard work that goes into stuff. I'm not saying that people don't get lucky post a video, it goes viral. And like, Hey, you're a big star that does happen. I know, but for the moment, but then what do they do with that though? Cause you can, you can go viral, but then what do you do with that afterwards? Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Natalia (49:46):

I still strongly that there's a, there's a big piece of fake it till you make it behind that. Right. There are a lot of people that go viral, but really they're paid to go viral, right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (49:56):

Yeah. Yeah. Let's just, uh, we are, I'm sorry. We've gotten way long. I know this has just been a good conversation, but that's, that's another good point that we could talk about for just a minute that I think me and long you got into it for a little bit, but the, um, vanity metrics versus metrics that really count. And you know, again, it depends on what we're trying to do if you want to be a social media star then. Yeah. I guess likes are an awesome thing. Uh, I got, uh, you know, I got hundred likes on the post the other day, took them to the grocery store and they wouldn't exchange those for food. And so I think if you're trying to, yeah. If you're trying to sell a product or a service, we, uh, you know, I get these ads all the time, you know, send me 500 bucks and I'll get you all these likes and uh, this exposure. And it's like, well, that's not my customer. It doesn't matter. So anyway, I'll turn that over to all the professionals to talk about the, you know, the vanity metrics versus things that really matter

Sir Sanju (51:02):

Two, like two things there. I think, um, you get what you're looking for and depending on how you think you're going to interpret it a certain way. Okay. So for me, for example, I don't follow celebrities on Instagram. Right. I literally like all, I almost don't have, my Instagram is primarily food marketing business and means that's it. Right. So I think that, so it's like for me, when I see these things, when I see like, you know, perfect, you know, the way people look or their bodies or, you know, men and women, like all these things, I think that at the end of the day, it's how you see it. And what lens do you look through it? And so often, or not people don't see how easy it is to portray yourself a certain way or to portray yourself. Like you have a lot of followers or whatever it is.

Sir Sanju (51:57):

And in reality, they don't. And I know these little tracks because you could see people, for example, that has, you know, 40,000 you 40,000 followers, and then you'll go on their photos and they don't even have a hundred people liking them. Right. So this is where we go down and we talk about bots and we talk about people buying, you know, followers or likes and that sort of thing. And at the end of the day, that is only going to make what you do in the future. So much more difficult because you're, you're basically, you're taking steps backward because although that people are saying, Oh yeah, I get this all the time. When people say we can get you followers that are in your target market and then yada, yada yada. And at the end of the day, there's no guarantee. There's no guarantee that you're going to get these followers and they're going to engage with you because it's not real.

Sir Sanju (52:42):

It wasn't a real connection. That was neat to, to do that, just to, to see how it more of like a, like a, like a surface level, like appearance sort of thing, or like a first impression I personally would say, just don't do it. Don't do it. There's no, there's not. There's, there's something that's not genuine there. And as soon as someone see is that they're completely turned off, they don't, they don't want any part of it. Right. So I always like say, you know what, start organic. Yep. And, and stop worrying about how many followers you have or how many likes you get, what you need to worry about is how am I talking to people? What am I saying to them? And who am I talking to? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (53:26):

Goes to the point of, um, do something that you like too. And because if, if you're just struggling out there to get some likes or whatever, and you're doing something you hate, you know, it's just like this podcast. I mean, it, uh, you know, in the very beginning, not too many likes listeners and, um, you know, it can get very discouraging, but I believe in it, I enjoy it. I meet so many great people that, you know, over time, you know, things have changed and I do see that growth. But, um, again, w what I need to do, I want to get y'all back on, uh, in the, not too distant future, because I think we talk about some things that we could, uh, kind of map out. We need a roadmap for our, our marketing, social media included. And, um, we need to really think that out where we have quality, uh, balance with quantity, but then the consistency, what's the message that we're trying to put out there.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (54:20):

And, um, you know, really develop a, like a content calendar of what we're going to do. So we don't wake up every morning and think, ah, I gotta do something today. And you do something crazy, inconsistent, poor quality, you know, a lot of things like that, where if we're planning this out, it gives us a lot of time to think about, to write, to write thoughtfully, uh, con you know, like, like we said, convey that there's a solution, not just that, uh, you know, Hey, if you're a business, you should be marketing. It's like, yeah, that's pretty much everybody knows that. But if we say, you know, how much you should be spending, or, uh, the details of that, that's what people want to listen to. So I'm going to, uh, I'll make you all a deal. I will let, y'all go for today. If you all promise me that, uh, we can reconvene this in a, not too distant future. And I get off a little bit deeper into some of these things, loved it. All right. Awesome. Well guys, thanks so much, uh, before we go, uh, I'm gonna get it from both of y'all. Um, so what's a tool or a ritual, a habit. What's something that y'all each do in your daily life, and that can be professional or personal, uh, that you just, uh, you feel adds a lot of value to your life. Something that you couldn't do without,

Natalia (55:38):

To me personally, I try to learn one new thing every day. So whether that's as small as a new change in SEO algorithm to as large as, you know, learning a whole new skillset.

Sir Sanju (55:50):

Awesome. Natalia, um, I think for me, it would really be to find, I'll use one thing that I'm appreciative for, because I think we oftentimes get into, we get stuck into our routines, into our habits, or get stuck into the stresses of what we're doing, and we need the reminder to kind of say, okay, but there's a reason why we're doing it. So something as me being appreciative for my plans and being and ready, that was something that I did.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (56:24):

Yeah. I think that, um, you know, kind of adding on that, something that I I'm trying to turn around in my life is that, uh, you know, being appreciative for the small gains that we make in the day, not every day is going to be conquering, uh, you know, the highest mountain, some days, we're lucky just to stay on the mountain. And at the end of the day, you know, if I got 10 things on my list to do, um, and I only get three done, I need to be grateful for those three and not beat myself up. You know, we don't need to beat ourself up and only we only carry that into tomorrow and that negative reinforcement. So, uh, I think gratitude, especially during these trying times where you're, you know, we're getting into a new year fresh start and, uh, you know, things are looking awesome. So we need to cut ourselves some Slack and, uh, and, uh, let our, let our shortcomings just go, but be happy for what we can accomplish. So anyway, also y'all tell, tell us, who is your customer, uh, how y'all can help them. And then of course, how they can reach out and get ahold of y'all.

Natalia (57:25):

So, from my perspective, um, our, our customers, anyone who's looking to grow their business, um, in a way that involves a bit of strategy and then the path forward, um, you can reach me through LinkedIn, look up, send juke and money and Sanjay. You can money, um, or ask us for anything.com, um, or, uh, let not handle the other ones. Okay.

Sir Sanju (57:46):

Yeah. You can follow us on Instagram at GNL media. Um, and then you can just send us a message comments on one of her posts. We can get in touch with each other, or you could even send us the emails directly through that as well. And you will find Sandy's personal Instagram there as well. And you'll definitely find my there too. So it's just learning.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Take Full Advantage of Social Medias Direct Pipeline To Your Audience (58:06):

Well, again, you all have been fantastic, a lot of great information, and I certainly do appreciate y'all taking time out of your day to be with us. Uh, you can find us at www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com. Also, we've just added the T B O B P. The initials for that came available. So, uh, the short form is TBOBP.com. Um, also we're on all the social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and then this, uh, once we put this up live, the video will be on YouTube as well. So until next time, take care of yourself and definitely take care of each other. Thanks.

wwww.gnlmedia.com

www.thebusinessofbusniesspodcast.com

Don't Put It Off Any Longer, Back Office Help For Any Stage Of Business with Vinnie Fisher

Who's watching your back office? It's an important part of the overall management process that is usually the last to be addressed until something goes wrong. We are typically focused on sales and marketing, human resources issues and don't think about who is handling the financial health of the company. You can fix that today!

About Vinnie

Vinnie Fisher is an entrepreneur and a best-selling author who has over 20 years of experience growing a scaling multiple 8 figure companies.

His most recent mission is helping eCommerce, tech and digital business owners improve their financial fluency and operate their accounting back office as a profit center.

After growing 3 – 8 - figure businesses with fast growth, many customers and low margin, Vinnie discovered the issue was that he lacked financial fluency and gave back much of his hard-earned money in cash waste and no margin.  With no good solutions in the marketplace, Vinnie founded Fully Accountable, an outsourced full service cutting edge accounting firm, that helps eCommerce and Digital business owners through fractional CFO and accounting services.

Vinnie has been awarded Digital Marketer of the Year multiple times and has been featured on many top-rated national podcasts and other media outlets such as Business Insider.  He has also authored three best-selling books and has guided Fully Accountable to the Inc 5000 as one of the fastest growing companies in America twice, and ranked as one of the Top 5 Outsourced Accounting Firms by CFO Tech Outlook.

www.fullyaccountable.com/thebusinessofbusiness

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (00:03):

Hello and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business. Uh, we, this show covers a wide range of topics for all. Businesses are entrepreneurs, solo, preneurs, uh, small businesses, as well as some larger corporations. And, uh, you know, what we want to do is just not only, um, put some ideas out there for thought, but we also want to bring you professionals that, uh, can help you solve those problems that you, um, may have identified. So, uh, without further ado today, uh, you know, we're blessed to have any Fisher. He is an entrepreneur and best-selling author has over 20 years of experience in growing and scaling multiple eight figure companies. Um, his, uh, most recent mission is helping those businesses. E-commerce tech, digital business owners improve their financial fluency and operate their accounting back office as a profit center. And I think, uh, you know, Vinnie can talk a little about this, but after he grew three businesses into the eight figure range with fast growth, uh, many customers and low margins, he discovered the issue that he lacked the financial fluency and gave back much of his hard earned money in cash waste and no margin with no good solutions out there in the marketplace.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (01:26):

Vennie founded fully accountable and outsource full service, cutting edge accounting firm that helps e-commerce and digital business owners through fractional CFO and accounting services. Vinnie, thank you so much for taking time out of your data, uh, be with us. Uh, this is such a great topic and it's such a need that, um, for, we get into that though. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? I know that you've, uh, were awarded the digital marketer of the year multiple times. So, uh, you know, you have a well-rounded, uh, background, you know, in all aspects of business. And then also, uh, you've authored three best-selling books and guided fully accountable to the Inc 5,000, uh, w as one of the fastest growing companies in America twice. So, um, again, welcome to the show and, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got here.

Vinnie (02:25):

Uh, first off, thanks for having me. And, uh, we, uh, honored to be a guest on your program. I love what you guys are doing. You know, I am through, in, through an entrepreneur. I have spent even before my entire career. So it's been my professional career. I've just always been, you know, this is just the way my mind thinks. I see problems. I try to come up with solutions to those problems. So when you look at my kind of portfolio or resume, you see a guy that had some of his own problems set out to solve those problems, and then tried to discover and did discover whether there was an audience greater than just me having that problem. And, and those would be my businesses. And so I'm thankful to that. I am a really a marketer, right? That's you know, even though I'm a lawyer by trade and I did corporate, uh, acquisition work as a young professional, I love the law.

Vinnie (03:23):

I really cherish being a lawyer. You can't hire me as mom, but I love the idea that I love what I do and it, and bring it into my businesses. Uh, but I've always seen problems. Uh, and thankfully I'm, my minds worked into a solution orientation and sorry, I've run my marketing as how I run the building of our businesses. And I know that's an unusual combination of marketer that runs business. Those usually don't go together. And I might quite thankful that my emotional equivalent, my ability to be, uh, relationally connected to other people in our team is, is one of the best traits I bring to the table. So that's probably what's factored the best in my ability to maturely grow a larger organization is, is the depth and development of team, right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (04:11):

Yeah. And, you know, it's, uh, a subject for another day, but I think that you bring out a great point because I talk a lot about retention in, uh, you know, that's what I do in some consulting practice, but, you know, we have to market for that talent. We have to be good at building that relationship because we're only as good as the teams that we can build and surround ourselves with. For sure.

Vinnie (04:33):

Absolutely. You know, I'll tell you that the people will realize that less than 7% of all companies do a million dollars of annualized revenue. So the amount of energy it takes to create a value proposition to where you have enough customers buying and repeat buying your stuff to get to a million dollars in revenue is its own issue. And so you have to establish that you're really those 7% of companies that actually have that, or we're going to have food. Well, there's an argument, a good one have an established value proposition. Now you've got to work on other things. Processing team are really the maturing things. You have to work on more than the idea of getting your offer to convert, because getting an offer to converse the first phase of business, building out the maturity of your company is truly the second and third phase of your business.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (05:31):

Right. Right. And yeah, and that's so important because, um, you know, a lot of people fall into a business, uh, a trade and they just start off and they really don't have a plan. And so that, that growth, um, well, it sounds awesome. You know, it can be a real block for some people knowing when to hire those, make those key hires and, uh, you know, what is that best path of growth? And I, I like what you said about the, the, um, you know, one thing that you learned was the no margin. And I think a lot of I've worked with some people that, that was in that growth period. They had a product and a price, but it was a losing price. And it wasn't like that was a market leader trying to, uh, get some other type of business. They didn't understand. They didn't understand margin on 40.

Vinnie (06:21):

Yeah. I, uh, I was like, you made you, uh, had a very nice syndrome. Yeah. I thank you for that. And in there you had mentioned my digital marketer of the year award while I was walking on stage with my then business partner. And we were walking up to get the award and we had actually won it two years in a row with this big event. It was kind of cool. And so we were coming up as getting all the accolades and I leaned over to him and said, wouldn't it be interesting if this crowd knew that we were more profitable when we were half the size. Right? And so I would always be attracted to everyday growing the gross revenue. And I never had a relationship to what we kept now. I know that sounds real basic, but I avoided the net profit or the net margin of the company because I was scared of terminology. I didn't understand. And this is a corporate lawyer who's trained in tax who equally was scared of that information. And when I woke up thankfully, and really my heart softened to that, this is my two, how can I be mad at anyone else in our company, if I'm not focused on the protection that changed, it really changed the way we operated our company.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (07:38):

Right. Right. Yeah. And, and, uh, you know, the terminology it's important because I, you know, when people try to sell their business, they, a lot of times they will be like, Oh, I've got a $10 million business. And, you know, the first thing I say is, that's awesome, unless it takes you 12, 12 million to run it or fulfill your product or your service. And so we have to be very careful in some businesses I've been involved in some industries, you know, that service creep that, uh, you don't really realize that growing your staff, the impact that it has on that bottom line and what you get to, you know, keep after the day is over with.

Vinnie (08:22):

Yeah. And I'll tell you for me, I, we have a really large health self-made company. We were doing almost three and a half million a month in top line revenue, but we were keeping raised for thin margins of around 8%, just enough to stock inventory paste. Them bills have basically barely anything to ourselves at all. And we were dumping it all back into growing the business because we wanted to sell it for some big exit. Right? Well, during this wake up time, I realized that that type of business that we built should have been profiting around 22% profit margin. So then all of the sudden I started seeing that we were losing 14% of the bottom, not winning 8% and like everything changed for me. So soon as I saw the leaky bucket and I was able to see where it was leaking, I became a ferocious animal defending the 22% and we got there and we were able to not only have distributions go to the company, but we ultimately sold it for a much better situation than we did when we were just running an 8% razor thin margins. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (09:29):

Well, and you're, I think you're lucky, not lucky, educated, educated yourself to actually realize that because it's, it's an unfortunate fact, you know, and I don't know what the numbers are more about small businesses not lasting, but we'll, you know, we'll use a marketer for a good example. There are people who are ACEs at marketing, get you in front of the right people, get the right, you know, get the flow into the pipeline. They could do all that, but they don't understand that back in. And at some point, if you don't make money or you don't make enough money to survive, you end up going out of business. And, uh, you know, that's what I see it way too often as somebody who's very good at their trade, whether, you know, whether it's marketing, being a lawyer, plumbing, electrical, whatever it is, they're really good at that. They kind of fell into this thing. But now all of a sudden, it's trying to understand, um, understand the back end or the other thing too, is the accounting portion is not keeping good records. And now all of a sudden, uh, you know, today it's, uh, January five. And so now all of a sudden it's scrambling around trying to put together the documentation, not having everything that you need in order to move on to that tax preparation. And, uh, you can lose a lot of money in that as well.

Vinnie (10:52):

Yeah. You know, it's funny, as you had made a mention too, like businesses closing of that number, you know, there are some statistical data from the small business administration as the close rate for one year to five. What's amazing to me is that less than 6% of companies see their 10th anniversary business, wow. 80% of covenant companies will not see their fifth anniversary business of all of those. That means that between the magic is getting near your fifth year, right. But from zero to five years, four out of five companies will run out of cash and that's why they closed. Right? And the reason is, is this lacking any fiscal controls where you're operating the business? And I think the real reason why we've grown and why we've built the business we built is because I think the bigger problem is the mindset of the leader that he or she is not building process in their company that he or she is really didn't actually sign up to actually run a business.

Vinnie (11:59):

He or she had a product or service that worked for a couple of people that the third of growing, and it became this thing. I'm firmly convinced that most people did not sign up to operate a business. But the reality is something's got to change when your business starts to get bigger than you, if a new habit and a new structure doesn't kick into where you invest into the backend operations of your business, then you're going to be on this hamster wheel, giving back way more money than it, um, is necessary. And with today's technology, that's unnecessary and no longer needed to be the way to run a business. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (12:36):

Right. Yeah. And even, you know, I think the other component of your businesses, that fractional part is that, you know, as you grow the business, you may not think that you can afford that salary to go out, hire that CFO to be your guy full-time. But no, but you know, the solution that you provide is awesome because you can get that help at an early point at an earlier point than what you used to could, you know, used to, you had to wait either had to know somebody who could help you out and do it for cut rate, or you had to wait till you got to the point you could afford to put somebody on full time and, you know, that's kind of frightening as well, but with the, your service, I think that's the really cool part is you're able to put that expertise on at a much, much earlier timeframe than we used to could, which is,

Vinnie (13:27):

Yeah. I'll tell you what. I have a gift for everyone watching and listening, and it's at fully accountable.com forward slash the business of business and what you'll get there is our best-selling books, all yours just raise your hand and my team will send this stuff to you. But why I'm making reference to that is that one of the things that's critical for a business of this is the leader has to start thinking about investing in the maturity of their business. And the one part that I'd say is core is the brain, meaning whoever is the core leader and its team, but everything else from today's technology is outsourceable right. We're one of those categories. So as other elements of service, maybe your supply chain like today's world, there are solutions to those problems in businesses and more leaders that their mind gets locked into that they, they don't have to be one of the tragic stories of running out of cash because it grew, uh, beyond their control. And so I'm thankful that we're on that wall where one of those categories on that wall, and there are other business process outsourcing categories in our materials will help you really think about those things. And we want to give you every chance to succeed in each one of those categories.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (14:49):

Yeah. Okay. And I appreciate, and I know the listeners will as well, that that's, um, awesome, um, awesome material, because we do need to think about that, especially if you're, if you're starting a business, uh, if you set out to start the business, not even talking about the people, just falling into one, but you've got to start thinking about this stuff day one, because what hap, what I've seen happen is it kind of creeps up on you too. You get beyond the point of being able to, uh, you know, hire help to come in, to fix things. And, uh, you need to be very thoughtful about that from the beginning and set it out in the plan. Like these are the, uh, timeframes, and these are the revenue numbers that we need to get to in order to make this, um, you know, to continue to grow the business where we can, uh, survive, not only survive, but we can profit from it as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (15:45):

Cause, uh, you know, we'll just kind of get into that a little that, uh, a lot of times business owners are, you know, the, uh, it's the other way around still the dog wagging the tail, the tail wags, the dog, that low profitability. What I see is that that tends to be when the dog starts wagging the tail, when we're not making enough money, we put in more effort, or if we're not, uh, if we're not taking care of the money that we make, we're not doing the Mar you know, looking at our margins. Now, all of a sudden we have to start working longer hours, harder doing other things to try to generate more and more income at lower and lower margins. Is that kinda what y'all see as well?

Vinnie (16:29):

Yeah. Two things, you know, in my world where we live with high transactions in a digital world, we have a lot of transactions flowing through. So if you're not paying attention to those, those items, cause so many transactions are flowing through where you can waste money in so many different channels. Acquiring the customer can be way more expensive than it has to be. If you have some controls in place, you can save some of that cash. But worse. What we noticed about cash strapped companies is the creativity of the executives we're leading. We're so worried about the bottlers. They don't have that. The ability to have good solutions into solving other problems in the business, almost go away. It happened to me like once I was able to free up cash flow in our health supplement company, I remember becoming more creative because it's all like proverbial news around my neck was taken off. And so that is one of the shames there's already enough downward pressures that come on a professional, you always need to be available and you always need to be right. Well, if you add like freaked out about your cash every hour of every day, it gets a lot less fun to run a business. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (17:40):

Yeah. And that creativity, you know, we need to set our, uh, there's a lot of, um, uh, research based evidence that we need to set some aside to be creative. But if, like you said, if we're worrying about how we're going to pay the light bill next month, uh, we don't, we're not able to take that time out for ourself and for our business and can be varied.

Vinnie (18:01):

It's happened to me multiple times, right? I mean, I, I know with firsthand, you know, think about it. Like if you're so anxious and worried about whether or not the right shoe is to drop or the furnace breaks in the right time, gosh, how could you not be filled with a level of stress that's going to be unproductive in your organization? So to me, as an organization starts to increase in revenue, it has to start maturing aspects of its company. In one of those categories where we live at accounting and finance is one of them where a business grows up, you can buy those things on a fractional basis. He can get the best bang for its buck. You know, we call it time, money and resources. Where can I win back a lot of time? Where can I spend a fraction of my money and get way more resources that I could otherwise buy with that same amount of money?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (18:51):

Yeah. Because you've got people who already know the business, number one, uh, and, and they will pay for themselves. They will help you save enough money or help you to funnel or channel or tweak your pricing enough that they will pay for themselves. It's not going to be just a dead expense for sure.

Vinnie (19:10):

Yeah. And if you like what you said there, when you think, when you think about the size or, you know, it's funny, our number one, objection, growing up as a business has always been, Oh, I'd like to have that in-house yeah. Well introduce the world's century pandemic. Well, that objection is gone. We don't have this question in our sales team of, about being in house. Well, what it's done is actually exposed a better issue. The better issue is what's the better use of my dollar in return for my company. [inaudible] minute I can buy those resources. In other words, all of the sudden you can look in each category of your business, which is why I very much encourage you to dive into my book, the CEOs mindset, because I break each department out of a company and you can look what a business should do. First is look to outsource in the best use of your dollars. You can always insource later as you grow up. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (20:09):

Well, and, and not only the use of dollars, but like you said our time, because if you're a heck of a marketer, instead of, um, taking the time to, you know, spill out some spreadsheets or, or make sure you're keeping up receipts is, you know, find somebody that's good at that. And you can spend your time growing the business, you know, through the marketing or whatever product or service that you deliver or whatever, wherever your skillset lies as well. So you brought up the, um, uh, you brought the pandemic up. So let's kind of think about that. Uh, what are some other things that you have seen that not only have changed because of that pandemic, but also, uh, you know, what are some changes that you see are some things to look for as we begin 2021?

Vinnie (20:58):

Yeah. When this all first started, I, I was following some executives who said, Hey, it looks like we're going to accelerate three or four years of behavior. And interestingly, as this has dragged on, you know, when you look at what's going on, I think we had accelerated somewhere North of five and maybe as much as 10 years, a decade of behavior. And so what does that mean? We're in the world. I live, you know, direct to consumer e-commerce the we'd spend every dollar we could to get a consumer used to buying online. Well, now we've been forced to create a habit to buy online. So what I see changing for e-commerce in high transaction businesses is that we had to switch our mind from just acquiring the customer, to finding a profit margin in acquiring that customer, because we don't have to beg here Xi to buy online anymore.

Vinnie (21:55):

That's the real reality. So that's one thing that I think direct to consumer online is the new way business is going to be done for at least 25, if not 30% of buying behavior, by the way, before all this was margining around 10%. So we have tripled buying behavior online. That's huge, which means there are going to think if you're a local retailer, you're going to have to very seriously think about your digital buying engagement behavior. One, two, if you're someone who has historically had all your talents sitting in your building, you know, we run a hybrid model, we run a corporate office as well as our, the vast majority of our staff, uh, sits in other places around the country. There are full-time team. Well, we run a hybrid model where our homeys work from home. Now we've been doing that since day one. So we didn't skip a beat on that, but that this reality that we are going to have a, an environment, uh, at a minimum of a hybrid environment, as we figure out new ways to tolerate working from home, that is that in the upheaval to the way we think about running a direct to consumer business, both of those have been negatively accelerated, and it's not this new normal, it's the reality of the way business was going to be done. It's just been massively accelerated, right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (23:23):

Yeah. And I think you make a good point that, uh, you know, I think we're here to stay with a lot of this digital purchasing because the, the hardest part is getting people to do it for that first time. And, and, you know, I can use my, uh, I'll use my parents as an example, is getting them to order groceries over the internet was a struggle and a challenge, but now they've done it, you know, for the last six or eight months, it's like, they will not go back to making that weekly trip to the grocery store. And then, you know,

Vinnie (23:55):

Well, you've traded in ignorance. You treated ignorance for unknown, for convenience. So when that habit supported convenience, the other arguments as to why not to do it are gone. And so, um, do I believe that because of this acceleration, it took something like that massively change consumer's buying behavior. Yep. Do I think that we are not going back pre this? I also believe that to do, I think will level out somewhere between a buying behavior that looks and starts local and may end digital. I don't know where those numbers are going to level out, but I, I believe that even though experts are still guessing a little bit, I had some boy we're gonna approach a 50% adoption rate to buying online behavior, and that's going to be a real thing.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (24:52):

Right. And I think, uh, you know, a lot of brick and mortar companies have adopted or adapted to this and they have the, you know, order online and pick up. I know that, you know, I was just, uh, had a few dollars left over in my, uh, uh, uh, uh, the FSA account. And so instead of going up to the store and walking through the store, trying to figure out what was available, you know, I was able to go online. They had the local drug store, the FSA store ship, part of it, pick part of it up. And, uh, again, that's, uh, for me, I feel like I'm pretty adapt to the digital, but that's going to be a new habit for me, is getting all that stuff online and just running by and letting them walk out and give it to me.

Vinnie (25:37):

Absolutely. I mean, it's funny, as you know, you made mention that, you know, people have adapted to some of that. You know, I was just reading an article, uh, where, uh, one of these big data companies was tracking the haves and have nuts, surprisingly retail, people who do have an e-commerce presence have thrived shockingly, coming into this whole thing, more than 50% of the active operating businesses in America, didn't have a website. We have barely moved the needle on that statistic through all this process.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (26:10):

Oh, my word. I didn't know that. So

Vinnie (26:12):

There's a, have not, there's many retailers who are not taking advantage of the e-comm part of their business and it's them that are going to have to change the way they do business, or they're going to have to change the business. They do. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (26:30):

Yeah. That's for sure. Well, Vinnie, we appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us. Uh, so tell me this, what is a tool? And they can be a tool or a habit or ritual. What is something that you use you use every day in your daily life, either professional or personal that you just don't think you could do without?

Vinnie (26:51):

Uh, you know, I, I use, uh, two things. I use a journal that literally allows me to organize my thoughts. And so my buddy Tony grabbed Meyer, built a journal called the be fulfilled journal. And it's, it's his version of it. There are other ones I'm just mentioning his because how I use it, but a journal that can allow, I have a lot of responsibilities. A lot of people on my team, I've kids, I've stuff to be able to organize my thoughts, not my I'm not an organized person. I know I have a lot of responsibilities, but I'm not a generally organized person, but one of the places I needed to up-level was organizing my thoughts. That's one thing I do a second, that it was, I time chunk. Now this may for high performers, you have to do this. And here's the tip. I specifically take my calendar and I set out not just blocks of time, but specific blocks of time.

Vinnie (27:50):

So if I were to grab my screen right now and show you my calendar, you'd see that today. And what a woke up, how to get ready, prep time. People are like, what, what is that? That's still a specific thing I need to do right after that I would have today. It's Tuesday. I know whatever we air, I recognize it's not going to be all that, but I have a specific ritual and each of those moments are blocked out. And only the time it's open is our purpose, allowing someone to last minute and on my schedule. But I think in order to be a high performer, you have to find a way to make time-blocking an important part of your, uh, your daily ritual. Now.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (28:28):

No, that's very good point. And, you know, protect our time. It's one of the most valuable things that we have is to, uh, be able to get things done and, uh, you know, be creative. It allows us to schedule that time for creativity for thought and you know, everything that we need to do to make our days more efficient. For sure.

Vinnie (28:48):

I just get more done, like, because the world will take every second of your time, if you, the calendar open, you want to really check high productive people. They I'll tell you. People say, they think time's the most valuable until you monitor what they do with their time.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (29:05):

Right? Yeah. Yeah. It can be an awakening just to write down all the things that you do during the day when you, when you're not paying attention, then, uh, you'd be surprised.

Vinnie (29:16):

All right. My friend, Tony, did this exercise with you. No, go ahead.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (29:19):

Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. What about

Vinnie (29:22):

My friend, Tony, that same guy did this exercise with me about drainers and drivers. What I would encourage everyone is to list out the things that are driving your time and what are the things that are draining your time. And you'll be me. You were calendar days are stuck creep in days, and the amount of leakiness in your time that needs to be protected. You'll see a massive uptick in, in, in peace and joy in the things you do. And so I'm so thankful for that. And it's, it's, it's really been a huge weapon that I know I would not want to do without.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (29:59):

Right. All right. Vinny will tell everybody, uh, how first off, you know, who is your client and, uh, what can fully accountable do for them? And then of course, how can they reach out and get ahold of your team?

Vinnie (30:13):

Okay, so fully accountable, you know, we are a fractional CFO and controller service. We provide a full service backend to e-commerce and digital companies doing a million dollars in revenue a year and above. And so we work with high transaction businesses. We're the experts. It's the only category we work with. So all our people, that's all we do. We're the largest in the space at what we do. That's our client during all this process, we wanted to make it simple for people to get in touch with us, regardless of where you are as a category. So we created a week here fullyaccountable.com. You can go see our website. You can also take advantage of the free resource we gave you at fullyaccountable.com forward slash the business of business. Please take advantage of those resources. Even if you weren't a great fit for us, we'll get you in the right hands and give you resources to succeed. Our mission is to help 10,000 businesses, double their profit margin. And if we can do that by equipping you great. If we can do that by being that for you, we'll do that as well. Okay.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business (31:12):

Awesome. Well, again, Vinnie, thank you so much time. Uh, y'all reach out, see how Vinnie and his team can help you. Y'all be profitable and, uh, 2021. All right, well, that's going to do it for another episode of the business of business podcast. Again, I'm Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Don’t Put It Off Any Longer, Backoffice Help For Any Stage Of Business. Uh, you can find us at www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com. We're also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and of this will be posted on YouTube as well until next time, take care of yourself and take care of each other.

www.fullyaccountable.com/thebusinessofbusiness

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions with Michael Sherlock

From sales to self-care you need a strategy to be successful. Communication is another key to being successful in sales or being successful as a leader or business in general. We have to think through our messaging carefully in all areas. Setting realistic and obtainable goals is one thing but you really need to announce them to be legit.

About Michael

Don’t be fooled by the name, the hair color, or crazy shoes. Michael Sherlock is serious about business. She is dedicated to creating positive, productive, and profitable workplaces, and helping individuals, and businesses unlock their ultimate potential.

Before launching her global training company, Shock Your Potential, Michael was Vice President of US Sales for two multi-national medical device companies, responsible for net revenue exceeding $75 million and as many as 500 employees at a time.  In 2020 she released the Shock Your Potential App, an on-demand training tool for leadership and sales professionals, and was chosen as #12 of the Top Female Entrepreneurs to Watch in 2021 by EnterpriseLeague.com.

My Favorite Quote

No one’s sense of urgency ever matches my own. – Michael Sherlock

www.shockyourpotential.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast on Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions, of course, we're the podcasts that bring a wide range of guests covering a lot of diverse topics, uh, you know, aim to help our entrepreneurs, solo, preneur, small business people. And today, uh, we have another fascinating guest it's Michael Sherlock. She is, uh, the lead at shock your potential. They teach leaders how to operate at a different level, leveraging the strengths of the team to achieve higher levels of success. Focus on supporting corporations and business leaders with actionable strategies on leadership, employee development, customer service, and sales transformation. Michael, thanks for taking time out of your day to be with us and welcome to the show.

Michael (00:56):

You're welcome. I, every time I hear, you know, intros, I'm like, wow, I do a lot of stuff.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (01:01):

That's what I tell people like, would this quit here? Because it just, for me just goes downhill. Once I get past my introduction. Well, I know that you deal with the, um, you know, a lot of a wide range of, uh, customers and, you know, in kind of our pre-show talk, you said your business that, you know, in the pandemic has shifted more from B to B, to B, to C, where you're helping some people with the myriad of issues. So what are some things that you're saying that us entrepreneurs solo, preneurs and small business people need to keep in mind or need to have our eye on going into 2021?

Michael (01:44):

Well, I'll tell you what we, if there's one thing we've learned, it's that we have no choice, but to communicate differently, right? And the core of everything I teach is all about communication. So, you know, leadership, my leadership concepts are based in active questions and really truly active listening. Uh, my sales coaching and training is all about listening and asking more questions than making pitches or assumptions. But I think that whether you're a solopreneur, you're a small business person, you work for a corporation. The key moving forward is if you are not continuing to evolve and enhance your communication skills, you're going to get left behind. Right? Because we know that for a fact, we're going to have so much more remote work and interactions moving forward, even when the world is all fully vaccinated and turning again, because we've found that it, it makes sense. It makes financial sense, but there's a price tag to be paid for it. If you're not, if you weren't a good communicator or a very clear communicator to begin with.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (02:45):

Exactly. Yeah. And, um, a lot of people have been, you know, we zoom too much and I actually have enjoyed it because it's gotten us away from these emails because sometimes, you know, our, the message or what we're trying to convey is doesn't come through as well. Uh, you know, just in an email. So I've actually enjoyed being able to do a lot more connecting with zoom. Um, you know, so you could see people's reactions, they can see yours. It just, uh, to me, it makes the communication process much easier.

Michael (03:19):

I think so too. I think there's a great advantage to it because, you know, we can look at each other, you know, much more directly. And it was interesting. I had, um, a media outlet approached me for some input on, you know, what do you do when you have people, employees that are displaying my bad behavior on zoom? You know, maybe they're, you know, they're sloppy now, maybe they're swearing, you know, maybe they're multitasking, you know, you know, what are those things? And, you know, my first response was, you know, we, you know, we were in 2020 in uncharted territory from a complete business standpoint, but at this point in time, if we haven't learned to act better on camera, then you know, then the core communication strategy has already broken with you. And, you know, to be able to see somebody and realize we can operate professionally in a whole different way and we can do it consistently, we can have great, great outcomes much better than, you know, from your point trying to communicate through email or even sometimes getting on an airplane to go have a business or sales meeting with somebody.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (04:23):

Yeah. Now I'll throw myself under the bus, say I'm probably that guy, most of the time, uh, I jokingly call this my zoom shirt. You know, I keep it hanging over here on the, on the wall. So when I have to get on the call, I'll throw it on. So I'm not looking at my old t-shirt, but you know, I think the, the other thing we need to look at from a positive perspective is this, um, it widens our talent pool from a geographical constriction that I think some people have always felt that we've had that I live in my town and I need to hire in my town. Maybe the talent pool is, uh, not what I need it to be, but this, I think we've proven now that a lot of jobs you can do it remotely and do it well.

Michael (05:09):

Absolutely. And I think when we talked before, I think I told you that my entire team is based out of Kenya. And I found not only was that affordable for me for, from a business standpoint, but there is incredible talent there that I would have never known. And it's truly, you know, something that gives me also a different global perspective. Um, not, not even so much, uh, you know, from, from my team, but you know, it opened up new, uh, proper opportunities. We actually started a new business where we're matching people from Kenya, with other businesses and small business owners around the world. But now I have a following in Kenya that I would have never had before. And as we open ourselves up to new people, new cultures, new opportunities, and we don't see the boundaries, we really truly become global and can become global very quickly. Yeah. And, you know, that's,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (05:58):

Uh, you know, as I've become older, that's something I really realized about myself is, you know, I grew up in a very small little bubble of, you know, people I surrounded myself with and, uh, you know, there's a big a world out there that a lot of us are just totally unaware of. So that has been another positive is that I think it's opened up, um, so much more, if nothing else, just to know other people's cultures and you know, how they live their day to day life as well.

Michael (06:30):

Absolutely. But there's a lot we can learn from it. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (06:32):

So kind of speaking of that, um, I feel like, and I saw a survey the other day that said probably 75% of remote work is here to stay. Um, you know, companies are gonna have problems saying, Hey, we need you. We need you to come back to the office. Now, a lot of people are gonna say, no, I'm just gonna look for another position that will keep me at home. But, um, you know, what is your take on that? Do you feel like that, um, the bulk of the stay at home, if you can operate at home that the bulk will stay at home?

Michael (07:05):

I think so. And I think especially for the next few years now, there may be a different shift after that. But one of the things that I see is that there are a lot of people who are very afraid to go back to work, right? So even if they're vaccinated or even if you know everybody else in their offices vaccinated, we still don't know all the data. We don't know how long the vaccines last. We don't know, you know, what else is going to, to occur. And although there are many of us, I think that are very comfortable and we'd love to be back based a base with a lot of people. There's a lot of people who just simply aren't comfortable. Right. But regardless of that, I think businesses have, have now had to ask themselves the question, how much do we really need to spend on our overhead space? Right. And what is the outcome that we can get with remote workers? You know, I mean, some of the biggest players in the world, you know, the Facebooks, the Googles, you know, we're building massive brand new buildings all over the place. Cause those things stop. You know, the question is, you know, what will happen in many of those cases where workers really can be remote, maybe shouldn't come together at times. Right. Um, but the, the cost benefit analysis is not always going to be in line for people coming back into an office environment.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (08:22):

Right. So what are some tips, um, that you have for, for, um, I guess being productive and you know, so many people, I think this is, um, there were people that were scared that felt like I've got to have my people where I can look out my window and see them, or, you know, look out my door and see them. And I think maybe we've changed a few minds about that, but there's still the concern from both perspectives managers and workers have that connection. Um, you know, cause sometimes people are left and nobody, nobody ever reaches out to them. They feel like they've been, you know, cast off to an Island, which is probably not a good feeling for that employee. So what are some things that we can do or how do you run your business where you can stay engaged?

Michael (09:14):

Well, you know, you, you hit the nail on the head, you've got two sides of the coin. You've got the employee who, if they're left alone wonders, do I still have a job because zero communication from your manager means maybe they don't think I'm important. Right. Um, from the, um, the leadership, the management perspective, when that employee doesn't communicate, you wonder, well, what are they doing? Where are they? Are they even working? And so the key communication channel is broken down. Um, and I know I find that with my team and they work at different hours and you know, I mean we're eight hours apart most of the time. Um, and there's challenges with that, but we've become very project based. But the last couple months, you know, I have realized that I need to be better myself and having not weekly meetings with everybody because my team's getting too large for that.

Michael (10:05):

But that at least every other week that I'm with somebody in my, in my department managers, I need to be with them once a week. And I have to carve that time out of my schedule. I might not spend an hour with them, but we need to have the rhythm of that to be able to talk, to be able to communicate, to say, what else do you need from me? And to be able to, to have feedback. But there are a couple other things that I think are really important and something that I learned because my entire team is global and remote is when I couldn't get them. If you know what I mean, sometimes there'll be five or six o'clock at night. My time they're in bed, they better be in bed. It's very late. Um, and, but I have something that I want to share with them.

Michael (10:47):

So there'll be times when all hop on a zoom meeting myself and I'll hit record and I'll say, hi, Lorna, Hey, I hope you're getting a good, night's sleep. Something I want to cover with you today. Um, so that you can take a look at it tomorrow and then I'll share my screen and I'll, and I'll go through like, maybe I'll say, Hey, I know you wanted me to edit, you know, some of our social media posts, let me show you what I was thinking and why I changed these things. And it gives me an opportunity to teach and connect in a different way. And she doesn't say, I mean, they all do the same back to me. They'll go, Hey, Michael. Um, I really need your help on this, this and this. Let me share my screen. Let me show you what's going on. And that kind of communication. I'll tell you what if I, if I was so smart, I would have figured that out way before we had a pandemic, because it just interest increased our communication and our understanding and that's what builds trust.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (11:39):

Yeah. And that's an awesome idea. It's something I've never thought about, but being able to not only record the video message, but also, uh, you know, do the screen share so you can actually put documents and other things in front of them while you're talking about it. So you, there, you learn something every day. That's an awesome takeaway.

Michael (11:58):

And it I'll tell you what it, it also it does, is it, it does, you might not be speaking together at that time, but then you do have like that Ida, I contact you, you know, I mean, I'll, I'll speak right into the screen as if that person is there and you start to feel like you're together and not so alone. Whereas, you know, even your, your example before emails can be taken a lot of different ways. Right. But if I, if I do it and I have my inflections and I'm like, Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions, let me tell ya, okay, we gotta talk about your last article he wrote. Right. You're going to hear my laughter. You're going to hear my, my intent. And it's not going to come across if I have some things that I need to critique you on as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (12:38):

Yeah. And, and, you know, case in point I had a client last week, a new one that I hadn't talked with and sent me a couple of emails. And I was like, Oh, I mean, I cringe because I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is going to be a beading. And when I finally got on the phone and talk with the guy, he was the nicest communicator. It was really good. But when I, you know, I kind of judged by these couple of short Curt emails that I had received and, you know, I was cringing. So that's just a, another reminder that, you know, emails, aren't always the, uh, don't always carry the intended message that others are trying to convey. So another thing that you have done, you've got, uh, uh, you know, a fascinating background, but you work for two multinational, uh, medical device companies. I think the revenue exceeded about 75 million and you had 500 employees, um, in sales at the time. So what are some things that have changed are changing, are going to change, you know, as, uh, as things either drag on a little longer, or maybe get back to some different form of normalcy, um, what are you seeing in the sales arena?

Michael (13:56):

Well, I'll tell you just for lead generation alone, I am seeing people in my view abuse, um, the opportunity of LinkedIn. And let me explain what I mean by that. Um, I have every day I probably get 10 to 15 LinkedIn connection requests. And I always know when it's going to be somebody who wants to sell me something, because it starts off with a line like, Hey, I just, I reviewed your profile. And I think that we can have synergies and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And most of the time I accept them because why not? I like to have, you know, I like to have great connections. I like to be engaged with people. Um, but I always know when I'm going to be sold and it doesn't feel good to have somebody then start bombarding my email inbox on LinkedIn. I've got almost 18,000 connections.

Michael (14:48):

So most of the time I forget about him anyway, after a little bit, because you know, the emails are replaced by somebody else trying to bombard me, but really interesting is that I think people, I do know that there are a lot of people who are using LinkedIn, where they'll have somebody go in and start farming for them where they're using different kinds of bots and know different elements to, to market. So it's vastly different than sales, but they think it's sales. And by the way, I had, this was two guys in a row who their message was exactly the same. And it starts out, I was trying to think of something witty to say, to, you know, make a great new connection. But I guess this is all you got love to connect. And, and when I saw the second guy and they were literally the same words I thought, Oh my gosh, now we're copying what other people are doing.

Michael (15:37):

This is, what are you doing at the end of the day? Sales still has to be about, about individuals, about how you establish a relationship. It doesn't mean relationship. Be like, you have to be somebody's friend, but you have to make a connection, right? Because if I don't make a connection with you, I can't determine whether or not what I'm selling is even an interest. But I think that right now, people have had so much time that they're just throwing things at the wall, hoping and praying something stick, right in, all it's doing is turning people off. We want, we want, um, honesty. We want, uh, we want it to be, you know, our true selves. We, we don't want to be sold by somebody who who's now conveying. What we all seem to align with sales is something that feels dirty. It feels like you're, you know, a little bit of, you know, when I say used car salesman, we all know what I mean. And I always feel bad for an actual use car salesman because they have a bad rep, but those practices are going on a long, a lot right now. And I think it really gets to the heart of somebody whose integrity in terms of how they are pushing in systems where people don't want what they're selling. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (16:52):

Yeah. And I think, uh, unfortunately, you know, it's one thing to copy good behavior, but now we're copying others, poor behaviors sending out those messages. But you know, I'm like you get bombarded daily with products that I don't even, I wouldn't even use. And I know that they probably cast a net based on a, um, you know, some key word or something that they picked up. But that's the other thing that lets me know that they really, even, haven't done much research on me and my needs because you know, they're saying, Hey, I can sell you a bunch of, you know, PPE or something like that, that like, you know, totally not even close, but you know, and what it's done, it spoiled it for those of us that try to use it in a responsible manner because now a lot of P it's it's become like email, I think, unless people know the person sending it a lot of times it's just, uh, discarded anyway. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Michael (17:50):

And that's where I say communication is so critical and more than ever because good communicators are really making, you know, are they're making a great comeback because if they're good communicators and they're in this new unique environment, they start to stand out even better. Right. And that I think gives us a real competitive advantage is making sure we're asking the right questions. So, you know, I started, I joined this, uh, somebody invited me to join this, um, networking thing called lunch club. And it's really interesting where you can be matched up with somebody once a week. And you just have a, you know, it was like going to have coffee with somebody and they're trying to match you based on your interests and what you're looking for. So it's really sales, networking, or, you know, interacting, networking. But, um, I've had a couple meetings there that have been just phenomenal.

Michael (18:39):

One that was not, uh, you know, a right fit for me, but it was a great connection, enjoyed the conversation. Right. The next one I had was like a perfect match to several things we're doing, not that I'm going to earn business from him, but there are synergies, there, there are opportunities to work there together. And that's what I think is really, you know, is, is interesting, are the platforms and the tools that allow people to communicate and really talk. And then when people get there, they operate in the right mindset. There can be some great outcomes to this.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (19:09):

Right. So, um, what are some other overall strategies that you're recommending to your in, you know, uh, I know that you, you said that you've kind of moved to that from the B2B to the B to C. So, um, you know, what, what are some strategies that you are putting out there to try to get people off to a fast start for the next year?

Michael (19:35):

Yeah, it's really great timing that you're asking this question because, um, I think I told you when we met before that, you know, I had to pivot my business because prior to COVID 95% of my business income came from me getting on an airplane to go speak or train somewhere around the world. And I always in the back of my mind had this desire to, to create an app. And I wanted an app because, you know, if you have any standing in front of a thousand people at a conference and everybody is like, Oh, we love you. We're going to buy your books. We're going to follow you. You know, they might follow my podcast. They might read my book, all that, but eventually you kind of lose them. And I always, for years thought it only had an app and that, you know, I could say, Hey, if you want to keep in contact with me, my Cod casts, um, other trainings, lots of free stuff, some executive membership stuff, it's all in one space.

Michael (20:26):

And so finally with COVID, uh, when the airplane stopped flying and all my conferences canceled, I said, okay, this is the time. And so we created this app and we, um, you know, we pushed it out just on beta test and we're actually getting ready to release officially and begin actually marketing it, um, here next, but our beta test, uh, just with no marketing and advertising, we have a thousand download users all over the world. I think 25 different company countries. And one of the things that I do on there is have what I call morning motivation. So it's like a motivational message to help you get focused. And so the, the month of January is all about it's a new year, keep a flexible focus. So how do you set realistic resolutions for your goal for yourself? What are your overarching goals? And so we're breaking it down to the little bits and the steps of doing and things like, you know, realize that a resolution, the definite definition of a resolution is, um, is the, uh, the firm intent to either do something or stop doing something.

Michael (21:35):

And so that from intent is the question, is, are you just saying, I want to lose 30 pounds or you like, my firm intent is to get promoted this year. My firm intent is to get five new clients, you know, whatever it is, but to set it. And so I've been sharing with my, um, well, I just taped all the, the, uh, warning motivations for the first week. But my, my intent for this year for 2021 is to find synergy and balance between my business, my personal life and my relationship with myself. Correct. And that is something that will drive success in all those areas of my life. And so I'm talking about those pieces of how you set that intent and you know, how do you get in the right frame of mind to even do it and what happens, you know, along the way when life starts getting in the way?

Michael (22:23):

Well, here we have an opportunity. And today I was just talking about scheduling for yourself, set setting time every day. So in 2021, every Monday afternoon, between two and five, I am fully dedicated to my own development. So that's either doing, you know, working with a coach, that's working, reading another book. That's, um, that's listening to other podcasts that are going to motivate me, but every week I'm going to dedicate time to myself, which sounds a little luxurious, but if I don't do it, how will I ever continue to grow? So it's really about setting intent, but then also following up with the actions that are going to get you there. Otherwise it's just a great idea where 80% of people will be out of their resolution before January 31st.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (23:09):

No, and I think that's a good point because, uh, you know, I was just talking to a gentleman the other day about, um, having that good work-life balance. And I think a lot of times we focus on work or family or home life, but we leave out focusing on ourselves. So I think that's something very good to remember is that not only for self development, but self care, getting to the gym, you know, taking a walk, doing whatever we need to do to keep ourselves healthy. And, you know, it's funny, I found this a meme from a few years ago that I just posted yesterday that said, uh, I think it was, um, Zig Ziglar, but it was, uh, motivation doesn't last. And then he says, but, um, you know, bathing doesn't last either. That's why we suggest you do it every day. So, you know, um, you know, yeah, right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (24:02):

It's like motivation. Isn't just a January 1st pep talk. We give ourself and like, Ooh, we're good. We're done for the year. I mean, you know, somebody, uh, said successful entrepreneurship is not a gradual line up it's up and down and up and down. And we have to continually find ways to not only improve ourselves, but to motivate ourselves every day or, you know, there'd be days like maybe today, then I would just check it up because, you know, my morning started out, my morning started out pretty rough, but, you know, we just have to, uh, celebrate ourselves, celebrate our victories and, uh, you know, learn to move past that. But also the self-development, I think that's a big thing for, uh, you know, a big thing we've learned. There's a lot of success that has come out of 2020, and I don't want to be little, um, the people who have been sick, the people that have been impacted with their jobs or lost loved ones that has been serious complications. But I think this is, uh, it's been a real banner year for people who have been able to be creative and be able to pivot and maybe just look at things a little bit differently.

Michael (25:15):

Absolutely. And it takes, I love, I love your quote because it is so true that motivation comes in fits and spurts, but the only way to keep motivation flowing is to make sure you are working on it every day that you're, you know, that you're focused on it because wherever you look, that's what you're going to see. Right. And when we put it behind us or we push it over to the side, we don't see it. So we're not going to act on it. It won't continue to grow inside of us. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (25:40):

Yeah. And the other thing that you mentioned that I just, we, we were, you know, kind of bantering around the dinner table at Christmas, and somebody talked about, uh, a dream and, you know, it was, my mother actually is, you know, and, you know, I kind of use that quote on her that something like, uh, what is it that it, if you want to do something, it's only a dream, unless you put a timeline on it and then you can make it a goal. So I think that's important to, you know, really think about our time horizons, how long we have to be kind to ourself. We can't say, ah, I'm going from zero to a hundred million, you know, by January 29th or something crazy, we have to be,

Michael (26:21):

Hey, Hey. And unless I win the Powerball,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (26:25):

Exactly. You have to be kind to ourself and know what is realistic, but we also have to be sure and put those deadlines and keep that focus. It it's hard because life is throwing us challenges every day, every minute. But we have to focus on, you know, I hate to always use cliches, but a lot of them are so pertinent. It's like, you know, have a plan and what is it? Plan your work and work your plan. But you have to stick to it when you fall off of it. You have to have a roadmap to go back to, to say, you know, this is where I need to be, where I need to be focusing my attention.

Michael (27:01):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I totally agree.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (27:04):

Yeah. We can, uh, you know, focus on a lot of, um, activities that really don't push us forward, bring us more revenue. It's just busy work and, uh, you know, it may need to be done, but usually we can find others that can do it at a much more reasonable cost to, you know, not taking us away from our goals and where we need to be for sure.

Michael (27:28):

Abs. Absolutely. And I, you know, I, that's one of the reasons that I've become so much more structured in my time and why I'm blocking more time in 2021 is that I can be easily distracted by shiny objects. Right. I've got a lot on my plate this year to accomplish. I can't do it without, um, making sure I put my head down every once in a while.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (27:49):

Right. Yeah. And then it's the, I guess the second part of that story is to, uh, reevaluate month in quarter and take, you know, some point in the future because things change just like we've seen this year. You know, if you had goals that you set out in January of 2020, uh, by March or April, things had probably changed quite a bit. And even in good times, we still have to, uh, you know, set that time limit to reevaluate. What are we doing? Is it working? Do we need to make changes, um, constant self evaluation,

Michael (28:26):

Hey man, I so agree.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (28:31):

Well, I do appreciate you taking time out of your day and the insight that you've provided. So tell me what is a tool or a habit or some kind of a ritual that you use every day, uh, either in your business life, personal life, but something that you couldn't do without,

Michael (28:49):

Uh, meditation, meditation and mindfulness, without a doubt, I got into it probably about seven years ago. It has made the biggest difference in my stress levels in my sleep. And I do it every single day. Um, right now I use a, um, course, I always talk about this and I wish I was getting a kickback off of every exam. I recommend it, but there's a gentleman. His name is Glenn Harold, and he does hypnosis meditation. And he's got a great app, um, that has just a ton of everything from, you know, they have sleep endings, they have waking endings. They have, you know, listen to these while you're on a walk or a jog, just a variety of things. So everything from getting mental focus, to sleeping better, to helping you to lose weight or have a desire to exercise. Um, but there's one I really love and it's called raise your energy.

Michael (29:39):

And sometimes in the middle of the day, especially after lunch, I hit that, you know what I call post ed sleeping, you know, when the afternoon's dragging and had lunch and then you don't have the same urgency or energy you had in the morning. Right. And you know, you got to commit to this cause it's 38 minutes, but I will lay down what on my headset, listen to that. And it puts you in a kind of hypnotic trance. I mean, you could still hear the, you know, uh, fire alarms went off. You don't have them, but, but it, it really it's like a little bit of a nap, but as it brings you out of it, cause it's got a wake ending. I just feel like my entire energy is infused through my body. And after I get done with that, the afternoons are just a joy. And I don't think I ever looked at my afternoons as a joy before. Right. So if, if tomorrow he didn't have that app available, I probably have a little bit of a minor panic attack just because I've learned how to do it a lot myself, but it really is something that reminds me to your point self-care is really important to me. And that really keeps my, my mind and my heart and my head space exactly. In alignment. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (30:46):

Yeah. We can, um, you know, when we have that energy, we can be so much more productive and so much clear, you know, sometimes just take for me taking a simple walk for five minutes. It's like, I, I have clarity like, Ooh, you know, I wasn't couldn't have even had this thought, you know, 10 minutes ago sitting in front of the computer. So self-care is definitely, um, definitely something we need to keep in mind going forward as well. So

Michael (31:14):

He's also a really dynamic guy. I'll just insert this real quick. But, um, I, I got the opportunity to interview him for my podcast and I'm so excited. It was like, you know, I was, I was fan girling. And uh, so he, he, uh, so in our app, in the shock, your potential app, we have a folder that's called, um, uh, meditation corner or the meditation room. And in the meditation room, I have his interview and he also allowed us to put two of his meditations on our app. So they're for sleep. And it's amazing to me that after people have listened to that interview and listened to it and done the sleep meditation, I can't tell you how many people from all over the world have said, thank you. I can't believe how well I slept and I can't wait to learn more.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (31:57):

Awesome. And so we can find that app in iTunes app store, Google, Google apps. Yeah. Okay.

Michael (32:05):

Just type on shuck your potential finally, very colorful logo. Okay.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (32:10):

Okay. I'll put that in the show notes as well, where people can reach out and download that. So, uh, uh, if you don't mind, take a minute, tell people, uh, who is your customer? What can you do for them? And of course, how can they reach out and get ahold of you?

Michael (32:27):

You bet. Well, I'll take the last question from first, which you can find us at shockyourpotential.com and that will give you everything. Um, although if you are interested in our, um, in our remote staffing business, it's called Kukula biz and that's K U K U L A B I Z.com. And Kukula biz is where we're matching talented professionals from Kenya, with small business owners all over the world. But my, my customer is multi-faceted. Now, if you would've asked me a year ago, I would have said my primary customer is a company or an organization that wants me or my team to come in and train on leadership sales or any other element of, um, profess of customer experience. But today that is still my primary customer. My secondary customer is someone just like you, someone who needs motivation, who needs, you know, training, who just wants to have, you know, a lot of resources at your fingertips to help propel you professionally and business wise.

Michael (33:25):

And that's where I, you know, as we really relaunched this app, um, it is, you know, we, our followers are our students in college. They are people who've been in the workforce for decades. They're people in the C suite. There are people that are frontline salespeople in stores, you name it. And what we're finding is that we are, we are becoming that place where if somebody wakes up tomorrow and they say, I have a job interview tomorrow, and I don't know how to prepare for this, that we've got resources for them. And it's been, it's been really, it's been really fun. I mean, if somebody says, Hey, I don't know how to manage stress, you know, in my life, uh, he, I don't know how to have a difficult conversation with a coworker or with one employee. We've got those resources there. And so our, our goal is kind of world domination, I guess, that, you know, that the app would be in everybody's hand and that'll be the place that they say, how, what do I need to do to get a promotion? What do I need to do to, uh, you know, to, uh, get that new job? What do I need to do to prove that I'm ready for a leadership position and that, uh, it'll be their go-to resource.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Business Strategies, The First Step to Better Decisions and Actions (34:29):

Awesome. All right. Well, we'll be sure and include that. Y'all go out and download it, reach out, give Michael a call and know that she can help you in a wide range from leadership to sales, to all of the above in the app. There be sh uh, you can find us of course, at, uh, www.the businessof businesspodcast.com We're also on all the social media, Facebook, Google, I mean, Facebook, uh, Instagram and Twitter. Also, this will go live on YouTube as well. So again, Michael, thank you for your time until next time, take care of yourself and please take care of each other.

www.shockyourpotential.com

www.thebusinessofbusniesspodcast.com

 

Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy with Purdeep Sangha

Did you get into business to have more control over your life? Not working out the way you dreamed? You are not alone. A lot of entrepreneurs let their business commitments overtake their personal lives. The reality is we need both. We need to have a good balance between our business and personal life. It can be done. Purdeep has helped many overcome this hurdle to happiness

About Purdeep

Purdeep Sangha is the world’s leader in complete executive consulting. He is widely known as “The Strategist For Businessmen” and teaches men how to become THE COMPLETE BUSINESS MAN. His personal mission is to help men grow their businesses massively, increase their personal fulfillment in life and improve their relationships with their wife and kids. He is the founder behind the movement of men becoming mindful alpha males. Men who experience complete victory and have it all! As an award-winning author, entrepreneur, speaker, podcaster, business coach, husband and father, Purdeep knows exactly how tough it can be to balance a successful business with a happy family. After studying and working with some of the most successful men around the globe, Purdeep shows men the neuroscience behind becoming limitless. 

Prior to starting his own business, Purdeep was a successful executive at multi-billion dollar organization before he walked into work one day and quit, cold turkey. Purdeep is popular for his expertise in business growth, male leadership the modern world and the neuroscience behind human potential.

His inspiration for The Complete Man was his father, who ironically passed away shortly before seeing Purdeep’s vision come true. His father was an entrepreneur who had immigrated here from India with $11 in his pocket. He worked a minimum wage labor job for many years before starting his own business. Purdeep learned many lessons from his father. Positive attributes such as: values, being strong as a man, masculinity, and never giving up. But he also learned the challenges that came along with being a struggling entrepreneur: the feelings of guilt, not being good enough, and addictions. Seeing his father struggle and having struggled himself, Purdeep’s motivation is to ensure that other male entrepreneurs have the knowledge, tools and skills to create a more profitable business and fulfilling life for them and their family.

Now, Purdeep dedicates his time to helping other men and spending time with his family. 

He also loves to podcast, workout, learn new things, and spend time in nature with animals.

Certifications

Executive MBA In Innovation Leadership

Certified Innovation Executive

Certified Lean Blackbelt (Operations)

Certified in Business Operations Excellence

Certified Executive Education

Certified in Financial Management

Certified in Strategic Intervention Coaching

Certified in Neuroscience of Change

www.purdeepsangha.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

The Male Entrepreneur Podcast: www.malepodcast.com/

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/purdeepsangha/ 

Facebook Business Page: www.facebook.com/thepurdeepsangha

Instagram: www.instagram.com/purdeepsangha/

Twitter: www.twitter.com/PurdeepSangha

Youtube: www.jot.purdeepsangha.com/youtube

Podcast Freebies For Listeners: www.purdeepsangha.com/freebies/

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (00:03):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. This is Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy. Uh, we are a podcast that we bring a wide variety of guests that talk about a, a whole diverse set of topics, mainly, uh, you know, focusing on our solo preneurs entrepreneurs, small businesses. And so today, uh, we are fortunate enough to have Purdeep Sangha, uh, Purdeep is an internationally acclaimed personal advisor and coach to high performing executives and entrepreneurs. He teaches men how to become the complete man, a man who achieves ultimate performance, fulfillment, and victory in every area of his life. He shows men how to live at their highest potential and to be the best possible business leader, husband, father, and man, they can be, uh, he has a very unique approach that it's, uh, how to balance life between business and personal goals as a family man, he is one of a few select groups of people that have experience in business neuroscience, high performance, psychology, masculinity, and men in relationships, uh, along with spirituality for deep. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join us.

Purdeep (01:22):

Hey bro. Hey, I appreciate you having me. Thank you so much.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (01:25):

You bet. And I'm going to be, uh, you know, we talked a little in the pre-show, I'll be the first to throw myself under the bus here and say that, uh, you know, I have a tendency to maybe work a little bit more and not be able to do, uh, that good balance. Uh, you know, my kids are older, that changes a little bit, but still, you know, I've got a, uh, I've got a partner and family, so, you know, spending more quality time being able to detach because you know, the other part, I think about the, uh, the integration of business and personal life is sometimes even though you may not be at your desk, uh, doing actual work, you're still thinking about it and you're not present in the moment when you're with your loved ones or doing other things. So anyway, we, we can just, uh, I'll throw that out there and I'll be the Guinea pig. And so we can kinda start unpacking that just a little bit.

Purdeep (02:16):

Awesome. Yeah. You know, Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy, we've all been there. I faced that myself as well, but w what you're talking about is very common, especially for guys, you know, a lot of this stuff applies to women as well, but for guys, especially if you're a go getter, you like to accomplish things, it's, it's part of us.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (02:31):

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Is it, uh, you know, we, and I think I said too, you know, I'm very fortunate that I enjoy what I do. So that makes it, I guess, a little bit harder. Maybe if I hated what I did, it'd be like, I'm glad this is over with, and I can get up and go, but, you know, it's like, um, I'm always thinking about, you know, marketing and different avenues, how to tweak this, how to tweak that, you know, riding stuff. Uh, I mean, it just, it's constant.

Purdeep (03:01):

Yeah. I guess I, I guess you could say you're one of the fortunate ones who actually enjoys what you do exactly. Cause there's a lot of guys, there's a lot of guys out there that are spending too much time I'm in their continent. A different trap. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (03:20):

Right, right. Yeah. And I guess that makes it harder even when you do get to detach and go be with your loved ones, that if, if you're kind of hating what you're doing, you may have that bad attitude that you kind of carry with you there.

Purdeep (03:34):

Yeah, exactly. That, that, or you're that much more thankful for having them around. Right. Because

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (03:40):

Right. So, uh, you know, because our show kind of, uh, you know, we reach out to a lot of entrepreneurs, solo preneur, so, you know, what are some tips that, especially for those just getting started, you know, how can we put up some boundaries or some guidelines that we know, um, you know, maybe we're overdoing it and it's time to, uh, do things a little bit different.

Purdeep (04:04):

Yeah. That's a really good question. I would say from my experience is that a lot of us, when we get into business and entrepreneurship, we ended up going into the business first and then start thinking about the lifestyle and all those other things. Right. So we basically are our life backwards for, for a lot of people. And I always, I always get people to think about what kind of emotions they want to live by on a day-to-day basis. So some people like to have excitement, like to have their day full of excitement, full of challenges. Um, you know, they're the firefighters. They like to go out there and, and, and, and have that adrenaline rush, right? There's other people that just like to have more peaceful days, they want to have a content life. They want to have a peaceful life. They want to be able to chill more and they want to have, you can say more of a balanced type of emotional state.

Purdeep (04:55):

It's really neat to feel, first of all, us, or sustaining you probably wondering what does emotions have to do with, Oh, it had everything to do with your business. It has everything to do with the quality of your life because your quality of your life is dependent on the emotions that you feel. And the quality of your business is also dependent on your performance, which a lot of your performance is based on your emotions. So if you start with emotions first, you can actually build your life backwards and say, okay, what kind of emotions do I want to feel on a regular basis? And I'll give you an example. There was this one young gentleman that I was working with. And when he first started, when he first came to me, he said he wanted to make a hundred million dollars a year. He was doing pretty good.

Purdeep (05:38):

Uh, but his goal was to hit a hundred million. I said, well, that's a pretty big aspiration compared to where you are right now. So tell me, you know, what kind of lifestyle do you want? What kind of emotions do you want to feel on a regular basis? And one of his top emotions was peace and content. And I basically said to him, I said, you know what? I coach executives that are entrepreneurs that are making hundred million dollars here. Do you know that peace and content is not one of the emotions that they feel on a regular basis? Because when you have a business that big, there's going to be a lot of problems, there's going to be a lot of challenges. And so, you know, when he got that into his mind, he said, okay, that makes sense. He pulled back his revenue figures and realized that he didn't need a hundred million dollar business to feel that. So you work for you start from emotions that you take a look at your lifestyle, or, and then you say, okay, what kind of lifestyle will support those emotions? And then you take a look at your business and you say, what kind of business will support that lifestyle now, whereas most entrepreneurs just get into the business aspect that they consider the lifestyle a little bit, but they don't, they're not building their business around their lifestyle. They build a lifestyle around their business. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (06:44):

I think that's important to distinguish because, um, you know, a lot of there's a lot of reasons people get into business. Sometimes they fall into it sometimes it's because they want more control over their schedule in their life, or they want to make more money. And, you know, to me more money is nice, but it should translate into a better life or a different lifestyle is kind of where I go with that. But, uh, unfortunately I think that we can, instead of the, you know, the dog wagging the tail, unfortunately we get into it and then the tail starts wagging the dog. You know, we let the business, uh, dictate what we do instead of, uh, the other way around. And I think, you know, there's a lot of things for that delegation, uh, you know, some of us that start out small solo preneurs, that delegation factor is really difficult to find somebody you can trust enough to do things the way that you want them. And then I think maybe, uh, there could be a twinge of perfectionism in there too, that we have to learn that, you know, there is a, um, uh, quality range that doesn't have to be off the charts for everything.

Purdeep (07:57):

Yeah. I think if more, you know about yourself and what you enjoy doing and what you don't enjoy doing, the more successful your business will be. There's people that I work with that do not like to sell and they're solar preneurs, and they don't like to sell all they like to service their clients or their customers, but they're stuck in their business because they're continuing to service themselves and they're their own bottleneck. Right. And so even at building a team for them is difficult because they don't have those leadership or managerial skills. So you have to say, okay, and be realistic and say, okay, what, what kind of, what are my skills? What am I good at? What am I not so good at? What do I enjoy doing? What do I not enjoy doing? And what am I willing to change about myself, right? Because you may not be willing to sell today or be comfortable selling today, but will you be comfortable selling tomorrow? Will you be comfortable leading and managing a team a year from now? Those are all things that to take into consideration. Yeah. Uh, this

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (08:56):

Is like kind of off topic and I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it, but it's worth mentioning that, you know, I do a lot of work with, uh, looking at employee retention and of course, uh, you know, we talk about hiring or I talk about, you know, the front end, the hiring onboarding and all that stuff on the front end is very important. So I think that translates some into this, that, um, as that solo preneur, we make a quick hire, or we don't really put a lot of time and thought into that hire, we make a bad hire. They come in and then it sours us on, uh, hiring people, you know, and then, then it's like, okay, well, I've tried that it didn't work. And so I think that gets back to the planning that, you know, if, if things start growing out from under you, are you have, um, uh, things like you said, maybe if you don't like to sell, if you're going to hire a sales person, do your due diligence and really set out a plan for yourself on how don't just, uh, you know, flinging an ad up on indeed and take the first person that answers it because you know, it, it will, it will very much turn you off on that process for sure.

Purdeep (10:06):

And I think one of the, one of the fastest ways for people to grow their businesses realize that when you have the right people on your team, you will go faster. Yeah, this is, this is something that, uh, you know, I've, I've used for decades from a business perspective, then it takes them getting to use to, for people that aren't, um, comfortable with giving things up or relying on other people. But I always say, take a look at the hoop versus the what, because for me, um, and sometimes we fall into this trap of solo preneurs. We take on something that we don't necessarily, or we shouldn't be, we start to learn things and we become experts in areas that don't make us money, or don't make us as much money, and we're better off to give to someone else. And for, for example, even myself, I'm constantly looking at strategic partners to say, and I personally, the way I've structured my businesses is that I keep a core amount of staff on minimal that keeps, it gives us a competitive advantage, right? Everything else is we outsource because I will let the experts do the things that they're good at. And I don't want to build that expertise within my own organization, unless it's actually going to give me an advantage. And a lot of times it doesn't, and it saves me a lot of time from a hiring perspective, from a management perspective where I can just outsource and say, Hey, this is what my expectations are, and I'm expecting your organization to get those results. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (11:30):

Yeah. That's very important as we, um, you know, those break even, or back office tasks that we can successfully outsource. It's also, you know, it's a great option, but you know, back to that team building is, you know, we need to really take into account who we surround ourself with for a lot of reasons, not only, you know, skill, you know, we, we have to look at some skills to hire, but, you know, I want to look at the, uh, quality of the person because you know, you're going to, if it's a small business, especially you're going to have to depend on each other and you're going to have to see this person. Well, you know, maybe in these days we don't see each other enough, but you're going to have to have interaction with them. So we definitely want people who have our same ideology and, uh, I guess, personality people that we can mesh with. And then we can teach them the intricacies of the, um, skill, you know, for our particular business that we need them to have

Purdeep (12:33):

Completely agree. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (12:36):

So then, um, you know, once we decide to wa once we decide that we okay, it's, uh, it's, um, it's over with, for today, I'm stepping back, you know, the kids have a baseball game or whatever's going on, what are some, um, what are some tips that can keep us from drifting? Uh, you know, while we're sitting there watching, it's like, we start thinking about the 10 things that we want to do or need to do. Do you have any good tips? Like how we can kind of stay on track to stay in the moment with what we're doing?

Purdeep (13:12):

Yeah. Wow. You just opened up Pandora's box or because that's, that's a big one. That's probably the biggest challenge, uh, entrepreneurial space, right. We don't have that clear line between work and personal life. And they constantly gets blended when we're with our families with constantly thinking about work. And when we're, we're at work, we're constantly thinking about, okay, I gotta be a better parent or a better spouse or whatever that is. Yeah. So here's something, because I have a neuroscience background, I've melted the worlds of business and neuroscience together because business is operated by people and people are creatures of neuroscience. We're creatures of our bodies. We're creatures of our mind, especially. And so this is one of the things I struggled with personally, because I am a, I, you know, I was a high performer. I was a high achiever and I was constantly thinking about, okay, I was sitting with my family and I faced this myself.

Purdeep (14:01):

I'd had two young kids and I'd be in Lala land thinking about it. This is what I can do from my marketing strategy. This is the, all of these great things, right. And I said, I can't do this anymore. Like, it's just not fair to my kids. They're not going to miss these moments. So here's, here's the approach that I take and that I approach other men to take it. It works very well. And these are principles from neuroscience. Okay. The first thing that we need to understand is that our brain is a goal driven Oregon. Um, and it likes to finish tasks because if there's an unfinished task, our brain will just constantly be thinking about it. It's like even those moments when someone says, Oh, do you remember that movie? And that so-and-so is actors that name, you know the name, but you can't recall it.

Purdeep (14:41):

And you're just constantly thinking about it and it bugs the crap out of you. Yeah. Well that's because your brain doesn't like unanswered questions or unfinished tasks and it keeps thinking about it. So at the, of the day, always check off your last task, always finish it. Now you may not, you might have this big task or big project that you might not be able to finish, create a mini tasks for yourself. So just create something where you say, I finished it and check it off. And you say, I'm done now mentally gives your brain this cue that says, okay, you're done. You can move on to the next thing. And the next thing to do is actually incorporate the ritual because rituals are important because they are signs and they tell your blood brain that you're actually going into a different mode, a different chapter of your day or your, or your life.

Purdeep (15:29):

So if you created a ritual, I know guys that literally, they will just crumble up a piece of paper and just throw it and be like, I'm done, right. Um, or they're slam their laptop shut. And they'll be like, I'm done. That's telling their brain that they're done for the day. So creating a ritual is important. The third thing is creating a new identity or transitioning yourself into a new identity. So having different identities is important in life. So if you think about it as entrepreneurs, we don't, we don't approach. Or we don't behave the same way at work with our employees as we do with our kids, you know, that would be kind of silly. Right? Right. But when we're with our kids, we have a different identity. And the classic one I use, I like to use as I, you know, Disney dad for my kids.

Purdeep (16:16):

And I like to have that moment where I laugh and I joke around with them. So I know that when I'm going for work now transitioning from being a boss and entrepreneur, I'm transitioning into Disney dad, I have this new identity and I'm giving my mind a target now to play within a new role. Right. And that's important because now you're letting go of that old goal of being that entrepreneur and boss. And the reason why that's important is because if you continue to use the same identity in your personal life, you're going to get caught in that trap. And you're not going to be able to get out of that old thinking. Yeah. And then here's something that's really important. And this is where a lot of people struggle is you need to have goals outside of work. You need to have goals with your family.

Purdeep (16:58):

You need to have goals with your marriage and the can be many goals. So for example, one of my goals with my kids is just to make them laugh for five minutes when I'm done work, I just make them laugh. That's my goal, whatever I can do to make them laugh. And your goal, your brain is a goal driven Oregon. And if your brain doesn't have a goal outside of work, well guess where it gets pulled back to all the time, the goal that it consistently bowls, which is back to work, your revenue targets or your sales targets. So whatever that is. Yeah. So if you give it goals for your family, for your kids, for your relationship, then you're more likely to stay within those goals and be more present. Now there's, those are the four things that I, that I recommend finish the task, have a ritual, have a new identity for your family and create a goal for those moments, with your family. Now on top of that, you can do other things, have mindfulness practices or meditation that really helped ground you and really calm your brain down. But those are four simple things that you can do on a day to day basis that really structure your day to get you out of that work mode and enjoy your family. Yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (18:04):

No, those are great tips. And I think the one that, you know, you hit on was that different identity, because so many times we can continue to be the boss. You know, we can continue to be the boss and home. And somebody is a quick to tell you that you're not my boss or, you know, this isn't work. So we need to get out of that, get out of that space. But I think that's awesome too about, uh, you know, having goals and writing them down for your family and personal time. Um, never thought about that, but that's, that's a great idea. Another thing I think is, uh, one thing I do is, you know, you have tools. So if you do have an idea, you know, you can text yourself, uh, sending a quick email. I find that if I get my thought off of my mind where I know I can pick it up later, I am much more, um, calmer than trying to think.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (18:54):

Okay, I got to remember that, you know, for the next hour, until I get to where I need to be. So, you know, be sure and have those tools at your disposal where you can just jot down a note and be done. And then, uh, the other thing is sometimes it's good to, what I find I can do is just take a deep breath and, um, you know, kind of not full meditation, I don't guess, but just take a deep breath and remind yourself where you're at and what you should be focusing on because it's unfortunate. But you know, sometimes families suffer at the expense of business and it should be the other, I think our business and, you know, if we have a family, that's where we should want it to do is support that lifestyle that give us more time.

Purdeep (19:37):

Yeah. And you know, what, you just hit something really important because that, that is the unfortunate reality for a lot of entrepreneurs. A lot of people, men and women get into entrepreneurship because they want to provide their families with a better life. But if you talk to their spouses and you talk to their kids, they will tell you that they want to spend more time with you. They want you to be around more and more present. So it, it, it's actually in reverse. And we've got to break that cycle. The faster you can break that cycle. And B you can say consistent with your own behavior, the faster you'll be able to actually have a more successful businesses.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (20:08):

Well, yeah, yeah. I think you mentioned it earlier, but you know, sometimes our personal life carries over into our business and business into personal. And so, uh, you know, we don't take care of that personal life and those relationships. I think that stress that comes from there can hamper our performance or make us, uh, not a very nice person to be around at work. Sometimes. You know, sometimes we, we don't say things at home, then we come take it out on employees or customers or other people. And that is not a good, not a good plan for sure. And, you know, we come in through the, uh, you know, coming through the holidays, it's been, uh, you know, it's a tough time for a lot of entrepreneurs, but I just think it's good just to, uh, you know, if you plan ahead set that time aside, if you possibly can just to say, you know, this is family time and, uh, we just have to take the time to enjoy life and enjoy those moments that we have.

Purdeep (21:11):

Yeah, I completely agree.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (21:14):

So, um, what about the spirituality part? You know, I think that, um, you know, it's kind of a touchy subject. Some people believe in the spirituality, some people don't I personally do, because I think, uh, you know, my opinion is we need to believe in, uh, uh, there's a higher person, you know, it doesn't have to all be the same person, but there's a higher person for each of us. And so how do we, um, I guess how can we mesh that in to, you know, kind of help, I guess it would help us even more

Purdeep (21:47):

Well, you know, I'll talk about it from a spiritual perspective, because I think whether some people have their own individual faith, some people have a belief in an energy source or, but just a belief in something more, you know, that's how I define spirituality is there's, there's something more than what we see and what we feel here on a day-to-day basis. And I think we need to have that because that gives us a little bit more hope when it, when things are going that well, for example, COVID a lot of people have lost their jobs to their businesses and they're down to now and, and having that faith is critical. I can remember being a kid, some of the toughest times of losing family members. Um, it, our faith is what got us through, right? But from a spiritual perspective, now science is catching up and it's actually showing now that there's there, we're at a time where science and spirituality is intersecting, where I'm going to speak about it from an energy perspective.

Purdeep (22:43):

We know that there is an energy out there that scientists don't even understand. We know that we, as human beings operate on energy, we are literally just walking, talking. Most of our body, our being is made up of energy more than matter if we actually, if you take a look at the actual matter within our body, it's phenomenal to actually see if you condensed it. It's less than a speck of sand, a grain of sand. Wow. Everything else yeah. Is actually built around energy, which is phenomenal if you think about it. So what does that mean? That means that we are experiencing life through energy. That means that we absorb energy. That means that we give off energy. And that means that we have to be cognizant of our energy. We have to be cognizant of our, not only our cognitive, our mental energy, but also our emotional energy, because the emotions that we give off, if we think about it is, is a form of energy.

Purdeep (23:40):

Other people around us are absorbing it. So our family members are absorbing our energy. We are absorbing our family members energy, and I, that's why I always am very, uh, my wife and I have very, you can say deep conversations about this. She believes in spirituality as well. And I'm constantly telling her, you know what, because she, she deals with cancer patients and she deals with dying patients every day. And she has to be very conscious not to bring that energy home because it's very tough on her, but you can feel that energy when she comes home, even if she doesn't say anything. So we have to be very open about this and very, because you know, there's positive energy and then there's not so positive energy. I don't like to say right or wrong or good or evil, but there's just, there's an empowering energy and there's a disempowering energy.

Purdeep (24:30):

And we know that we can feel that. And the reason why I say this, if I just go look at it from a scientific perspective, is that we need energy to function appropriately and properly. Our limited resource, a lot of people say time is our most important resource. And from my personal experience, I believe that energy is because I know a lot of entrepreneurs who have an hour of time or two hours of time or an entire evening of time with their family members, but they don't have the energy to enjoy it. Right, right. They've worked their butts off at work or whatever it is and their business. And they don't have the energy level to enjoy life to the fullest and think about it. Well, we are not at our highest energy level. We are not operating the best. We're not thinking the best.

Purdeep (25:14):

Right. And we're not able to contribute because a lot of times when you, Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy, when you talked about us being present, a big part of that is energy. We just might not have the energy to be as active with our kids to play around with our kids. We just want to enjoy and vege, right? We want to vege and just neutralize ourselves. That's where energy comes in. And we will notice, you know, there are times whether it's a moments of faith or a movement of something out elsewhere, whether it's mindfulness or meditation, that just by taking that moment to just feel the energy we can re-energize ourselves. Right. And I think this is something that we have a lot of entrepreneurs have forgotten because there's just so busy right. Day in and day out doing the same old thing. But if you focus on the energy, if I was to say, what is the one thing that the entrepreneurs I work with want and what high performing entrepreneurs is, they want more energy. They want to be able to get more done within a specific time period. They want to be able to be more energetic. They want to be able to be more outgoing or curious Matic with their children or people around them, but they just might not have that energy. And so that's where spirituality comes in too. It's a form of energy that I wish I could explain Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy and say, you know what, this is how it works, but you know, it's tough to explain something that you just can't put your finger on, right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (26:39):

No, for sure. And I think the, um, you know, there's a lot of evidence that, that side, you know, not only can help us in healing, but also in that energy, which gets back to, you know, we talk about building our team and who we surround ourselves with. We need to understand that in our personal life too, that, uh, you know, we want to hang out with positive people that give us that positive affirmation. Instead of, you know, sometimes we may have old friends that are negative and it can just drag us down. And so, uh, you know, it's very, we need to be very conscious of that, to where we spend our time, because sometimes it's just, uh, you know, the w my partner calls him energy sucker. She said, you know, that that person just like sucks the life out of you. And then, uh, you know, I think the other thing is we talk about energy and I, this is just my personal, uh, experiences that, you know, I've got a list hanging over my desk of things that I need to do every day breathe.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (27:41):

Um, I catch myself holding my breath, you know, you know, when I get involved or, uh, get really into something. And so, you know, those deep breaths, uh, get sleep, drink, water are exercise. Um, because I know that when, like you said, when, when I'm doing all those things, right, I have much more energy. And then also sometimes much more clarity. Like I, if I get a little jammed up, if I just go take a five minute walk outside, it seems like I just have this, um, uncanny clarity all of a sudden. Yeah. So I think it's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we need to take care of ourselves in order to, uh, you know, to make all these other things happen as well.

Purdeep (28:27):

Yeah. If we think, if we take a look at it, one of the biggest things and, uh, energy is important because we, as entrepreneurs are solopreneurs have roadblocks all the time. We come up against obstacles every single day. And what ends up happening is that we need to overcome those obstacles in an overture to overcome those obstacles. You've gotta be creative, and you got to have creative energy to be able to do that. So a lot of the times, if we feel stuck, we're not able to be creative, right. But if we have that energy, we have that drive, we can say, okay, this, this challenge is nothing. We can just, you know, there's something that we can do to overcome this. And you'll notice at some point in time, that idea of that thought, whatever it is will come to you, that insight comes to you when you have that level of energy.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (29:10):

Yeah. This was more of a study that was geared toward kids, but basically, uh, what, what the research was trying to show was that, you know, today we over-schedule kids, not only with outside events, but we have electronics video games. We just have a lot of stimulation going on. And what the research was saying is that our kids tend not to be as creative as some of us old timers. You know, we had to go out and find some creative way to play with rocks and sticks in the, you know, dirt pile. And so, uh, I think that translates into business into the fact that we, if, if we're trying to write or solve a problem, um, or even develop a new product, a new service or a twist to what we're doing is we have to schedule that time where we can just be and give us, give our body and our mind time to be creative.

Purdeep (30:06):

There's two, there's two things. There's two resources that I tell entrepreneurs to really pay attention to. Um, I don't even take into the time aspect. I don't really talk about, but there's two, the one is the energy aspect that we talked about. The second is focus. Yeah. Those are the two biggest things that you can do to impact your business in life. Always pay attention to where your focus is and always pay attention because where your focus is, that's where your energy is also going as well. Okay. So if you can maintain your focus in the ways that you need to, from an empowering standpoint, right? If you're focusing on the worry and all the crap or the business that you might have, that's what you're going to continue to get. That's where your energy is going to go. But if you're focusing on solutions, if you're focusing on how you can make more sales to pay down your debt, all of these kinds of things that are more empowering, you're going to be better off this ultimately works because it's a compound effect. The people that are the most successful, the entrepreneurs that are the most successful out there are the ones that know how to keep their focus on the areas that they need to and push their energy, energy towards that. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (31:09):

Yeah. And we need kind of in that vein too, we need to drive out the front windshield and not, uh, you know, drive looking in the rear view mirror. Cause sometimes that can definitely take our focus. You know, we focus on the past instead of the future where we need to go, that can definitely drain our focus and our energy both as well

Purdeep (31:29):

As you know, and that's a good point because that requires forgiveness. Right? That requires a lot of self-forgiveness. Yeah. Because, because if we take a look at our past mistakes, uh, it's, it's good to take a look at some of our mistakes because they're learning points. They give us opportunity to say, I could do this better, but when we come into that guilt trip, uh that's when it really becomes a hindrance and a lot of us do everybody does, but that's where we have to be more self forgiving and be in, in now she's tell ourselves I made that mistake. It's okay. I just need to move on. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (32:04):

Yeah. We're all gonna make mistakes. And that being forgiving and also the gratitude. I think that the one thing we've come through the pandemic a lot more people are starting to understand gratitude, but, uh, at the end of the day, you know, I'm guilty of, I had 10 things on my list today and I only got seven done. I left three and I can really beat myself up over that. Whereas, you know, trying to flip the switch and say, Hey, you know what, I got seven pretty good. Uh, we'll carry those three till tomorrow. And, uh, you know, give ourselves a break and be gracious for what we actually did get done that day and for what is going wrong in our life. There is a lot of re for most of us, there's a lot of re there's a lot of things that are going right for us. We just need to, uh, you know, focus and give thanks for those as well.

Purdeep (32:55):

You know, I was, I was thinking about the state on my daily walk because, um, I typically do my daily videos, my social media videos, when I go for my walks and this today, I was thinking about the concept of self-love and how we need to be better at, especially for guys, because the concept of giving yourself love is tough. Uh, and when you do that, you have this sense of, uh, how would I say peace content, um, inner even clarity, but confidence. But if you can't love yourself, it's tough to give love to other people as well. Um, as much as you feel like you may be a loving person, you can give that much more love if you actually give yourself some self self-love. Yeah. And ultimately, that's, you know, it's an exercise that I do myself. I get guys to do is just put your left hand on your chest.

Purdeep (33:43):

And this has been shown through, um, what they call coherence testing, that if you put your left hand on your chest and you breathe in a certain rhythm and a regular deep breath rhythm that your heart and your mind will actually synchronize, it's called heart and heart-mind coherence. And when they actually synchronize, you actually become in a lot more peaceful, more, you can say a gratitude state, um, and it helps a lot with reducing stress. It helps a lot with reducing cortisol in your body and rebalancing you. So you can actually think more effectively. And this is, I highly encourage everybody just to just try that exercise even for 30 seconds or a minute, um, you know, just play some weather, whatever music is comfortable to you for you, whatever the soothing or whatever it is be in a dark room, whatever's comfortable just deep breaths, but putting your left hand on your heart and actually breathe. And you'll realize that. And brain scans have actually shown this EEG is eventually shown that the mind and the brain will actually start to synchronize, whereas in most parts of our days, because we're so busy, our minds and our hearts are off track. They're not synchronized. And because of the stress, because of the busy-ness and that causes not only cognitive cognitive disorder, but also physical as well, it stops our body from healing itself. So there's a lot of different aspects, um, positive act aspects that can help, uh, by doing that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (35:09):

That's interesting. I'll have to give that a try. We're pretty deep. We certainly do appreciate you taking time out of your day again, to join us. So tell me, what is one tool, a habit or ritual? What is something that you do every day in your personal life or your business life that you just don't think that you could do without

Purdeep (35:31):

Wow. That I could do without, Oh, this is a really, really so from a, uh, a tool. Oh, um,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (35:39):

Yeah. Tool or habit, you know, just anything that you do every day that you feel like is good for you.

Purdeep (35:46):

Yeah. The, the one, you know, I have different habits. The one thing that I cannot do without is visualization. Okay. That is something that I do on a regular basis. It is something that grounds me to helps me with my creativity. Um, I, you know, I could be in the crappiest mood and have the crappiest situations happen in my business or other aspects, but just going back and being able to visualize part of that is through meditation. But that really, if I, if I can say what has helped me get to the point where I am today in my business or any other level it's visualization, I truly believe in the power of visualization. Okay.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (36:25):

Okay. Awesome. Well, thanks a lot again, uh, tell everybody, you know, who is your client? What can you do for them? And then of course, how can they reach out and get ahold of you?

Purdeep (36:37):

Yeah, thanks Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy. I appreciate that. So I have, uh, two different arms of our business. We have a consulting practice where we harp help organizations in a number of different areas from building high-performance teams, for example, to business operations, marketing, different areas. Um, and then my personal side in terms of what I love to do is coach entrepreneurs and executives. I love working with individuals specifically with men, um, because that's the area that I focus on and it really, you know, helped them get success in all areas of their life. So we work on business leadership, we work on fatherhood, we work on, um, you know, even relate like marriage, for example, but it's more about that individual. How do we make that person, um, what I call the complete man, I should, we just released the book, the complete man and it's, and it's all about that aspect where a man can achieve fulfillment, success and victory in every area of life. Uh, and you can find me on pretty much every social media channel at a Purdeep Sangha I'm available. I'm active and feel free to reach out. Okay. www.purdeepsangha.com

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Be A High Performer? Develop A Strategy (37:40):

Well, great. Everybody reach out. I know that, uh, Purdeep can make your life, your personal life and your business life better, uh, some great tips and information today. So again, thank you very much. That's going to do it for this episode of the business of business podcast. You can find us at www.the business of business podcast.com. Uh, we, of course, we're on all social media, uh, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, and we will be putting this up on YouTube as well. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of each other.

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Your Life or Your Business? You Don't Have To Choose, Love Them Both with Holly Jean Jackson

Start with self-care, even in business. It's a very important place to start. We cant take care of others unless we take care of ourselves. To be a good leader, we must be at our best. As leaders, we need to set our priorities both personal and professional. The set our goals and a plan to achieve them. Build your inner compass to guide you.

About Holly Jean

Holly Jean Jackson helps entrepreneurs and business leaders love their life and business again. With over 12 years of technology and business experience, she helps business leaders get their groove back physically, mentally, and emotionally.

She does this through a combined approach of both coaching and consulting providing practical and actionable results.

She also helps end fear and frustration with technology. Holly also teaches her clients to remember self-care is essential, not optional. And that community is critical to success.

www.hollyjeanjackson.com

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Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy, thanks a lot for being with us today. Um, we are the podcast that brings you guests from a wide variety of disciplines to, uh, not only give us some, uh, different things to think about, but also if you're having issues, uh, it'd be a professional or an expert in that arena that can help you solve your problems. And with that today, uh, it's a very timely guest, Holly Jean Jackson, she's a success coach, a business consultant, and a speaker that helps entrepreneurs and business leaders love their life in business. Again, with over 12 years of technology and business experience, she helps business leaders get their groove back, physically, mentally, and emotionally. She does this through a combined approach of both coaching and consulting, providing practical and actionable results. She also helps in fear and frustration with technology. Holly also teaches her clients to remember self care is essential, not, uh, an option. And so, um, and that community is critical to success. Holly, thanks for taking time out of your day and being with us.

Holly Jean (01:17):

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me here today.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (01:20):

Well, we hit on so many things. I had almost stopped at each one of them and said, yeah, that is right. You know, going through the holiday season, especially for solo preneurs entrepreneurs, um, you know, it can be very take a toll on physically, mentally and emotionally. So, uh, you know, what can we do to help ourself? I know, you know, uh, I'm terrible about over-scheduling and trying to cram, you know, 12 hours worth of work and the eight and it just doesn't work out for me. So what are some tips that we can do to kind of help, uh, put us back on an even keel going through the holidays?

Holly Jean (02:00):

Yeah, well, I think the first thing is to remember what's most important to you. I actually just wrote a blog. Um, I think last month around this, and one of the things was, you know, create your values system with your family or your loved ones around the holidays and keep it really simple. You know, what are the traditions old or new because COVID is kind of putting us in a different predicament this year that are important to you. And I think also with this holiday season, people are, um, less busy because they're not going to all the holiday parties. They're probably a bit zoomed out and tired of video conferencing. So I always dial this back. Even if it's not holidays, it's like everyday life. Uh, I work with my clients on building their life and business compass and all of your decisions on whether you say yes to something or notice something are based on your compass, which is personal to you as an individual.

Holly Jean (02:56):

And on the compass, you have your five life priorities, whether that's family with very specifics around that, whether it's self-care and health and various specific tangibles around that. And then the other side, you've got your three quarterly business goals that you're aiming to nail and dial in that year. Um, and then from there you have your longterm five or 10 year goal, and it's important to have this compass so that you say yes to things that are on it. And if they're not there, are there are things or opportunities that come up that are not on your compass. You should have gracefully say, no, otherwise you're not growing in the right direction. So it's the same during the holiday seasons or not just really dial in what is most important to you and say yes to those opportunities.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (03:39):

Yeah, I think that's important there. So, uh, there's so many people on both sides of that fence out there that, you know, there's some that say, say yes to everything. Some that say, say no to everything, but I think you're right. It's good to look at w what aligns with our goals and what can propel us closer to, you know, where we want to be. Those are the things that we not only do we want to say yes to, but we'll probably put our heart and soul into it just because that's something that we we need and enjoy more than likely.

Holly Jean (04:11):

Yeah, absolutely. And I also think that a lot of us make the mistake of allowing society or people around us to define success for us. And that's why outlining your compass and what makes you happy? The things you're passionate about, passionate about the values that matter most to you and your community, you know, write those out. Otherwise you're going to just kind of Willy nilly make decisions. And ultimately you're gonna be saying yes to things that force you to say no to things that are aligned to getting you closer to how you define success,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (04:42):

Right. Or that we just, uh, unfortunately we take on so much that we can just have burnout, which is, you know, that's terrible because I think that affects us, you know, as, as we were saying, uh, in the lead in about the physical, mental and emotional, I mean, it can just drag us down and, you know, like I said, I'm guilty of that. Uh, you know, you get busy, get sucked in and, um, you know, forget to get out and exercise, forget to step away and take a breath. So even, uh, once we write down our compass and we kind of have our direction, so what are some daily techniques? Um, because I I'll do good with that for about two or three days, and then, you know, kind of start slipping off. So what are some things that kinda keep us from falling off that cliff and kind of keep us back and focused on our compass?

Holly Jean (05:31):

Yeah. So, um, having your compass as your screensaver on your computer, on your phone, having it posted all around the place so that it's kind of anchored into your life, and it's a constant reminder of how you're defining success is a great way to daily check in with that, sharing your compass with people around you is also a great, um, routine, not daily, but maybe monthly or quarterly, so they can hold accountable. Um, some other daily techniques that I use, um, you know, how Al rod has a book called miracle morning, and I actually do a very similar practice to that before he wrote the book and then just dialed it in based on what he shirts. It's very, very amazing. And it's using meditation to quiet your mind, focus on breathing, and then affirmation worked to, you know, fix beliefs that are limiting or, you know, beliefs that are not true anymore in our life to make them more positive and serving us, I'm using visualization for me, visualization is necessary every day.

Holly Jean (06:36):

It allows me to visualize how I want my day to go my week to go my long-term goal, like actually tapping into that long-term vision every morning helps me stay motivated and wake up excited. Or if I don't wake up excited, when I do that visualization practice in the morning gets me excited for the rest of the day. Um, and, and these practices, if you do them daily in your reflective journal on that, and you're consistent, and it does take, you know, 30 days or so to make that a habit. I noticed that the days that I miss that I don't have productive days. I'm not as happy. I'm not showing up when I'm doing interviews, like what we're doing right now. And it just really shows up. So create that habit over 30 days and play with what works for you. So for me, meditation and visualization are part of every morning for me and journaling.

Holly Jean (07:27):

But for you, perhaps it's simply just doing some short breath work and exercise. It's very different for each person, but figure out a morning routine that gets you excited and keeps you on track. And it keeps you grounded. It's the reason it's so important is it gives us a scale of where we are when we wake up in the morning. Are we burned out? You don't know if you don't stop and check in with yourself. Right. Um, I think I just shared with you. I just went through the most horrific move of my life and probably the second or most stressful eight weeks of my entire life. Um, and if I hadn't learned lessons from the past around burnout, I would likely be sick with COVID or something, um, or super burnt out. And so, because I have these daily practices, I knew that I couldn't do a hundred percent in my business during the season because of what was happening personally. And I'm really up leveled. My self-care even higher. I was like, okay, I need to do a sensory deprivation float every week. I need to meditate longer every morning. I need to be willing to ask for and receiving support. And I need to dial back my launch to January for my online class and not December. So checking in with yourself, knowing your capacity and being aware of that. It's really good.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (08:47):

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. The self-awareness, uh, you know, like the situation, if you were to just continued to pile on, it would have led to, you know, probably disaster, not only, uh, mentally, but physically as well. And that's what, you know, getting stressed out. It can drag you down physically, which then, like you said, you makes you susceptible to, uh, you know, illness and sicknesses and a lot of other things going on. So your, um, you know, cause that's been a positive, I think that's come out of this. Uh COVID is that people have slowed down a little bit and it seems like, um, more people are trying to practice more gratitude, uh, the journaling and the mindfulness, because it's important to know really where you're at. Sometimes we, uh, if you don't slow down, it's hard to pick up, um, those signs that we need to around us.

Holly Jean (09:44):

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I it's, it's interesting. I, even though I'm well practiced in these daily routines, um, I recently saw my physical therapist cause, um, I knew that my pain level is going to be high with the stress, even though I was managing it fairly well. And she asked me yesterday, she said, where does it hurt? And I said, I don't know, because I'm, self-aware enough to know that I had, um, separated myself from my body because my stress level is so high and I'm in fight or flight. And I have been for weeks. So I knew that that was what was happening. And I was getting all of the support tools and everything that I needed and asking for and receiving help, which is hard for me. Um, but still it's so easy to separate ourselves from what's happening in her body and stress wreak so much havoc in the system. I also knew I wasn't eating enough or drinking water enough. And so I told people around me that were here to help me during this transition. I said, make me drink water and make me food. Cause I'm not going to do it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (10:48):

Yeah. And you know, those are, I, I wish I could show you. I've got a sign that hangs over my desk that says that, you know, these are kind of the daily things, exercise, eat, right, drink, water, get your sleep. And another one I've added is breathe. And, um, you know, I was not aware of this, but I've been in some situations where people be like, it's okay to just to take a breath. And you know, when I get stressed or get really involved in something, it doesn't have to be bad. It could be good. But when it's intense, I guess I tend to hold my breath. And so learning that was big for me because now I need to step back and make sure taking those deep breaths and not the shallow breaths, because it's amazing how much that we can control in our body by just simple breathing.

Holly Jean (11:36):

That's really interesting. You just said that, um, every time people say breeze, uh, I check in with like where my breathing is. And even though I'm not stressed out right now, like specifically over anything in this moment, um, what I noticed is when I've been in fight or flight, or just a really stressful season for a long time, my breath is really shallow. So it's like, you know, my shoulders and above, and it's like super, super shallow and short. And like you said, kind of holding versus as soon as somebody says, Oh, what's happening with your breath? I'm like, Oh, wait a second. I need to actually inhale throughout my whole body and my diaphragm and Oh, I can actually let that out. And I think sine also is really healthy. So it's funny. Do you feel people around you will sign and you're like, Oh, what's wrong? And I saw a lot and I don't, I don't think I even realize is people like, Oh, what's wrong. I'm like nothing. I'm just like letting all the stress out of my body. And it's a great physical way to just release all that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (12:32):

No, you're right. And that's something I didn't realize I was doing, but that sighing, you know, especially when you're working and can't get up, it's like sometimes just to let everything out is, is really good. And it, you know, like my situation, it wasn't even a stressful thing at work. One of them was a, we went to one of these painting things where, you know, they have the lady that stands up there and she does the painting and kind of tells you how to do it. And so I was actually having some fun and, you know, she walked by and said, it's okay if you'll just take a breath. And I'm like, I didn't realize it. But you know, I was kind of sitting there on my tongue, hanging out, just, uh, concentrating so hard that just don't think about it, but it's very important. Cause I think it controls a lot, uh, or it can help with a lot of other functions besides just our stress. But, um, you know, just getting all the oxygen and nutrients that we need to our body. So, I mean, that's, that's huge now on your, uh, on your meditation, do you use an app or some other kind of a prop for that timer, egg timer or something like that?

Holly Jean (13:38):

Yeah, it depends on the day. I like to use the app calm and I have the paid version of calm. I typically use their daily calm, but sometimes if my mind is really active and I want to do longer, I'll use the timer where you can just have very quiet and it has a bell ring every 10 minutes or something. Um, and then sometimes I do my own meditations without an application. Um, and then they also have a lot of apps for affirmations. If you're really interested. I use physical cards from Louise hay, um, for affirmation work because I find that having a physical anchor is a great reminder of something I want to work on. Um, and then I have these Sequoia, like Indian cards that, um, just, they're not taro cards, but they're always right. I'll, I'll pull one of them. And this is really interesting. It's like, Oh, you need to work on trusting your intuition. I'm like, okay, that's that's right on track. Um, and it was just really, even if you don't believe in that, it's just a different perspective to give you creativity and openness to learn something new about yourself. Um, so anything that works for you, that's out of the box out of your comfort zone is always

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (14:52):

Yeah. And we talk about, you know, practicing gratitude, um, you know, a lot of things, a lot of days, I may have 10 things on my to-do list or want to do, but you get through seven or eight of them and you leave too. I can find myself in the evening, beating myself up over. Wow. You know, those two things I didn't get done. I got to push them out and being really disappointed. But I think we, you know, it's probably good for us to flip that switch and be celebration, be celebrating the eight things that we did get done instead of, I think as humans, sometimes we always tend to go to that negative and try to, uh, not celebrate even the small victories that we have every day.

Holly Jean (15:35):

Yeah. The brain actually scientifically has been proven to have a negativity bias. So, um, it was there back in caveman times to keep us surviving. So we'd always see these, these negative things and they're there so that we always remember them. So we can survive in modern times that doesn't really serve its purpose anymore. And so for in modern times, we need to remind ourselves that it's so important to acknowledge progress every day. So when you're going to bed and you're judging yourself for missing those two items, like you said, it's instead acknowledged that you made progress on eight things that were on your list and acknowledged that you had enough self-awareness to stop so that you can get sleep for the night so that you can tackle more than the next day. It's just about taking small steps each day, not tackling a mountain every day because it's not realistic.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (16:26):

Right. Right. You know, talking about taking a moment, um, to be reflectful and just be mindfulness. I read a study not long ago and this was basically geared toward children, but I think it applies to us in business as well is that we have to be still in order to be, um, creative. And I assume, you know, it's probably the same for most everybody, but you know, just like myself, I can be so busy in the daily stuff that, um, you know, I'm not creative, but I can go take a 15 or 20, 30 minute walk. And it's like my head clears and, you know, problems, solutions to things that I've been thinking about all of a sudden they just come very easy.

Holly Jean (17:12):

Yeah. I mean, so for each of us is different, what that state of flow is. But when we get to a place where our mind is not overthinking, and they've defined this as flow for the creative space, there's a lot of books on this and science behind it. Um, for one person flow could be going on a bike ride and they have a problem for their bike ride. They finished the ride and they're like, Oh my gosh, I have all these great ideas for another person, you know, going swimming in the pool, um, could help them another person's sleeping overnight. They could solve their problem. Um, so it really varies for each of us, but Kurt you're correct. If you're so focused solving the problem or staying in the day to day task after task, and you're feeling overwhelmed a lot of times it can be helpful to walk away from it and do something entirely different. And I can't tell you how many times where I'll do this or even I'll be in the shower and I'm like, Oh, that's a great idea. Like, it's just, it, you can't solve it when you're over obsessive obsessively, thinking about the problem, you kind of need to change the environment.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (18:18):

Yeah. You know, and I kind of like to jokingly say, I've got a, uh, uh, 20, 20, uh, Meg hard drive mind in a, you know, 12 gig world. So, you know, because the other thing that I have found that really helps me to kind of make space is to write stuff down, whether it's a kernel of an idea or a to-do list. If I get it out of my head, I can quit thinking about it and I'm able to move forward. And, um, you know, over the years I've used a lot, but do you have, um, a process for your task keeping up with your task?

Holly Jean (18:59):

Um, it's kind of very, so I use, I use Evernote for ideas that I have. Um, I also journal every morning and I keep post-it notes in my meditation space. So if I have a really great idea that I want to take action on that week or that day, I'll put it on a post-it separate from the journal. Otherwise it will be forgotten because the next day will happen. Um, and then I actually keep a kind of an old school way of A-list. I have, um, these mole skin notebooks that I use to track my to-do list. And I love, um, there's this I forget who wrote this the perfect day formula. Um, I use kind of a version of that to plan out my next day. So I used to try to block schedule my time for a week that it just felt like that was not really realistic other than just like my online calendar.

Holly Jean (19:48):

Obviously you have to chunk that out. Um, but beyond that just the night before I literally plan out, Oh, okay. Eight to 10 o'clock, I'm going to do some writing. And then after that, I'm going to do this and it's realistic. And it has some flexibility in it because life happens. And the more I do that, the better I learn about myself and when I'm most productive, like the best time of day for me to do writing or creative work or strategic work, the best time of day is to do administrative things or coaching calls. And so the more you practice that each day, you learn how to be more productive and how better to plan out and be realistic. So that at the end of the day, you feel great about it, you know?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (20:30):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like the old saying the, the, um, tail wagging the dog. If we wake up in the morning without a solid plan, then the first email we get first phone call, we get our first thing that comes into our mind. That's kind of where we tend to go. That is the path that we need to be on to get us to our end goal or not. So I think that's an awesome, I'm glad you brought that up because that's something we need to do is plan and kind of getting back to your, the morning routine as well. I think that we need to, um, we really need to protect that time and you know, whether it's, if you're an early morning riser and you can get up at six o'clock and say, you know, six to seven or however much time you need nothing else happens in this time, except, you know, my meditation and getting ready for the day. But, um, so many times we get up and like I said, it's whatever the first thing that hits us and then we're off to the races and we, you know, we've lost total track on where we need to be

Holly Jean (21:32):

Well, and realistically life does happen even though I've been doing this for years. Um, I have seasons where I won't be doing my morning routine for a week or two, but whether it's vacation or this crazy nightmares move that I just experienced. Um, and so, and then I'm like, okay, I need to get back into that. And so I have, you know, a coach that reminds me, well, have you been doing that? And I was pretty good about it, but then the last few days because of the chaos has not been as consistent, but I can tell the difference and I'm because I've been doing it so long. I know I need to get back to it. And I have people holding me accountable. So also give yourself some grace and realize that there will be seasons or times where you fall off track. It's just more about being aware of being forgiving and then getting back on.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (22:17):

Exactly. So, uh, one thing that you mentioned too, is that the fear and frustration with technology, what are some tips that you can give us? Uh, you know, because we've become people like myself, you know, when I started out, it was a big chief tablet and a number two pencil. I mean, you know, we've had to adapt and there's something new coming at us every day. I mean, there's all these other two marketing tools, sales tools, you know, apps and programs. There's just, you know, a flood of things. And, uh, sometimes people have a resistance to try new stuff.

Holly Jean (22:55):

Yeah. Well, I find that in life, regardless of technology or not, whatever we resist persists. And so, um, as business owners, it's necessary to use technology. You just kind of have to get to a place of accepting that and you're having trouble. That's something I work with clients on, but it's also about being very specific around what technologies that you're investing in your time, your resources, because you could go after 10, but you probably don't need 10. So it's being really smart, researching the different products, working with somebody who understands the technologies and the goals of your business this quarter. And it's really just creating that step-by-step plan of, okay, well, right now I need to get an amazing CRM, which is your customer relationship management system. So that I'm information about potential clients, existing clients, companies I'm working with family even, and keeping my relationships amazing.

Holly Jean (23:54):

And because we can't remember everything, there's so many people in our life, especially in this online world. And so it's just biting off small bits of technology at a time, instead of boiling the, see a lot of people that I work with, what I find them doing is they try to learn three to five technologies at once. And if you start looking into things like funnels, funnels are not using one tool, they're typically using multiple tools. So you've got, you know, click funnels to build the funnel. And then you've got an email marketing strategy tool that you're using. You're pulling from your CRM to target market, to this specific people for that funnel. Um, there's so much that you could get into and you don't want to be too overwhelmed all at once. So it's really bite size pieces. It's also realizing that technology is supposed to help you.

Holly Jean (24:46):

It should actually be reducing your stress, right? So initially it's overwhelming because it's new, it's uncomfortable. That's normal as humans, we resist anything that's been changed or uncomfortable, but after you get past that hump of the learning curve, it actually should make her life a lot easier. You'll find, Oh, okay. Yes, this takes 10 minutes a day, but Oh my goodness, like my customer service experience and my customer relationships are so much better, or my I'm closing sales so much better because I remember things, my customers are raving about me because I have such a high touch experience and connecting with them for their birthday, et cetera. So ultimately you need to make sure that it's helping you actually get some tangible wins and if not, then get rid of that technology.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (25:33):

Yeah. And it's funny, you're reading my mind because when we start talking about that's a CRM is what jumped into my head because I talk with so many sales professionals and, uh, they, they, um, have an aversion to using it, you know, in the moment as we're talking jot notes, when am I going to reach back out to you again? How am I going to, am I going to call you email? What have I promised you that I need to deliver? But, um, you know, one thing I'll say about that is that all technology or all CRMs, let's be specific, all CRMs are not created equal. And it may take you a little bit more time on the front end, but if you have control over what you use, my advice is look at four or five different ones and find one that suits your needs because I'm telling you, there was a period that I went through.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (26:24):

I think I went through four or five or six within a year because I just, I never could kind of like hit the groove with one of them. But I finally found one that suits my needs. It suits my work flow. It was perfect. So, um, if you're in a position where you can control that, be sure and take time to do research, to do testing. A lot of these guys give you free a 30 days that you can, you know, do it. So get on there and really work hard at it and find one that you can mesh with.

Holly Jean (26:59):

Yeah. And I mean, also when you say they're not all equal, some of them are a lot more complex, so I'm not going to name specific instances, but there are some that, like the onboarding process is so complicated and I worked in technology for 12 years. So for me to say it's complicated, that is really saying something. Yeah. Um, so if you do that 30 day thing and it's not, it doesn't make sense or the customer service support team, isn't great. That's not the right CRM. And that's actually the same thing with any technology. Um, if it's so difficult that you feel like you're getting an MBA to understand it, it's not the right tool.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (27:36):

Exactly. All right, Holly. Well, I think through taking time out of your day to be with us, we certainly do appreciate it. And hopefully we can, uh, you know, stay on track, especially through these holidays, get to the new year. Do you have any tips for, uh, you know, like kind of kicking off the new year where we can get off to a fast start?

Holly Jean (27:58):

Yeah. Um, well, I'm actually, if you look at my website, I'm doing an event, I think it's January 19th or something. Um, and it's called visualize your year and how to make it happen. So the biggest mistake, people deal with the new year's. They make the resolutions, but they don't set tangible goals and they don't set the action steps, will those goals, they don't set timelines to make them a reality. So you might have this really big goal, but, and it's really exciting music you're going to do it well, 94% or higher when people do not hit the resolutions, it's really, really high. So, um, that workshop, we're going to talk about some of the tangible things you need to do for the short term to take action steps. Um, also I interviewed this guy, who's the bucket list guy, Trav bell on my podcast recently, and his episodes releasing pretty soon.

Holly Jean (28:49):

And I had thought it was really kind of cool cause I hadn't revisited my bucket list for a long time. So it might be kind of fun in the new year, especially since 2020 was really difficult for many of us to revisit or create your first bucket list. So these are things that you want to accomplish before you die. Um, and then start thinking about maybe two or three and the next year that you could actually tangibly achieve, because if you're excited and passionate about life, it's going to bring you more creativity at your business is going to thrive. You're going to be happier and let's be real. Um, you know, in the sales world, if your personal life is an upheaval, it's going to affect your sales conversations, gonna affect your business. And so as business owners and solo, preneurs and salespeople, you have to up-level yourself care. You have to make sure you're at 110% because otherwise, um, personal experiences will reflect in your business. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (29:44):

Yeah. That's definitely true about especially sales when you're out in front of people, you gotta be on your game all the time. All right. Well, what is the tool that you use in your daily life, either professional, personal tool or a process? Uh, I know we've talked about some, but what is one that you feel like you just couldn't do without, uh, on a daily basis?

Holly Jean (30:09):

Um, I mean, for me, the one that I can't do without daily is visualization. Um, and it's not really an app or anything that I'm using. I've read a lot about visualization. There's not like a specific book coming to mind, but, um, essentially you can YouTube to find a guided visualization, but my attempt for each view is just practice different types, experiment with it and visualize how he events for the day. You'd like how you want them to go. Um, if you're a parent, a difficult conversation you're having with your child visualize how you want that to go. Um, it's great to visualize difficult conversations or conflict, um, before going into it, how you Blake of the resolution to occur, because then you're more likely to go into that situation, um, with new ideas and a different perspective versus defensiveness, um, visualize how you want your next year to go. As you put together your news, new year's resolutions and all of the cool things leading up to that throughout the year, because you want to enjoy that journey and not just the end game and just celebrate along the way.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Your Life or Your Business You Don’t Have To Choose, Love Them Both (31:20):

That sounds great. Well, Holly, again, thanks for taking time out of your day to be here. We certainly do appreciate it. Uh, this is going to do it for another episode of the business of business podcast. Thanks for listening. Of course you can find us at www.the business of business podcast.com Finally, just yesterday, uh, uh, the, uh, TB O B P the, um, initials for that just became available. So you can also go to T B O B p.com for, um, same podcast. We can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and, um, even on YouTube until, and also on all the major platforms, uh, Apple podcasts, Google play Stitcher Spotify for not on one that you listened to, uh, reach out. I'll be glad to get us added on to it until next time, take care of yourself and take care of each other.

www.hollyjeanjackson.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website? Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks with Sir Sanju Ganglani

The old days of build a website and they will come are no more. A good website takes some thought and creativeness. You have to be able to capture your reader's attention in just a few lines. But having an awesome website provides no value if no one reads it. This emphasizes the importance of SEO

About Sir Sanju

He is the founder of gang&lani media serving the global business community across Canada, USA, Europe and Africa for the past ten years.  The company specializes in serving B2C and B2B clients in marketing: traditional and digital with primary focus on search Engine Optimization (SEO), Search Engine Marketing (SEM), Social Media, Design & Branding, Print and Website Development.   As an entrepreuner, Sanju understands what level of dedication and support is necessary to help make a business successful.  He is involved with many not for profits and charities such as NourishHope, Skills for Change. Brilliant Minded Women Foundation, Pink Attitude,  Blues for the Red Door, and Heroes in Black.  He was knighted by the Order of Saint Stanislas - Bishop-Martyer which is awarded to people all over the world for their achievements in the fields of education, science, sport, art, economics, national defense, social work, civil service and for furthering relations between countries.

www.askusforanything.com

www.linkedin.com/in/sajug

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below 

 

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (00:00):

One hello and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy. We are the podcast that, uh, we bring you a wide range of guests from a lot of disciplines that have to do with the running of businesses. We typically speak to solo preneurs entrepreneurs and small business people. So we want to give them some things to think about, and we also want to give them some resources to reach out, to, to, you know, help, help them be more successful in their journey. So today we have an awesome guest it's Sur Sonjay gang Lonnie. He is the founder of gang and Lonnie media serving the global business community across Canada, us, Europe, and Africa for the past 10 years, the company specializes in serving clients in marketing, traditional and digital with a primary focus on search engine optimization, social media design, and branding print, and website development. So without further ado songs, you, it is awesome to have you with us today. Thanks for taking time out of your day.

Sir Sanju (01:12):

No, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I'm excited

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (01:14):

Now this, uh, of course your family is a family of entrepreneurs. So, you know, this is kind of, you've been able to learn growing up the, you know, the dedication and the support necessary to make it, uh, to be successful in business. And I think that's awesome. You also have been knighted by the order of, and I'm going to let you pronounce that and tell us a little bit about it, uh, because I don't want to butcher the name.

Sir Sanju (01:42):

Yeah, it's the same sign. It says, um, it's an order of Poland action, so I can come up Polish night, which is kind of funny. Um, and it was basically what it's been last year actually was exactly a year ago, um, for, you know, the work that we did in community. So we do a lot of work with, uh, women on knowers and, um, people, students that are looking for scholarships or helping to kind of get the next level, so kind of work a lot with them. And that work was fortunately, um, recognized in the community. Uh, we were, I was a nightly last trip.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (02:13):

Well, that's awesome. Congratulations. I don't know that we've never had somebody who's been knighted on the show, so that's a first for us. Well, um, you know, you cover a lot of ground. And so I thought we would take this opportunity just to kinda, uh, you know, we're not going to have time to delve into all these subjects. I mean, we could spend hours and hours on each one of these topics, but let's just kind of take it from the point of view that, um, we've got some, a new entrepreneur out there starting his own business, or maybe there's somebody in business that wants to redevelop their web presence. So let's kinda just start at the beginning with, uh, you know, the website development.

Sir Sanju (02:56):

Okay. So, so it's kind of funny because it's, you know, digital marketing is one of those things where it's not just one thing. It's not just websites, it's not just social or SEO. It's sort of this whole ecosystem that works together with the foundations. So the analogy I usually use is that of, um, a young lady getting ready to go out on Saturday night. So, you know, if, if you look at it, visualize it, you know, sort of the first thing that they go out and do is, you know, they're at home, they put on their foundation and we kind of refer the foundations of their makeup, um, to a website. So the first thing and most important thing that I will look at nowadays, it's no longer your business card, it's really your website, right. So, and they're looking you up, whether you're running an ad campaign or whether they just got your, you know, your business partner spoke to you, they go to your website and that's sort of what kind of judges you, or gives you that club that you need.

Sir Sanju (03:47):

Right. Um, so to me, that is by far the biggest and most important investment that you need to make. Um, but the key with two websites that we find it's new entrepreneurs or in honesty with, with, uh, people been around for a while is a lot of us look at the website as what we would like to see. Right. And so we kind of way that this a disconnect where it sort of, you know, some of us like myself, I'm always a lot more creative. So I want that sexy, you know, afraid of artistic website. Right. You know, versus you got the guy who was like, dude, I came here to find out what you do and I need to get it out in one minute or less. Right. So, you know, helping, helping entrepreneurs understand that, you know, the site may not look or feel, or, or represent your personality, but it needs to reflect the people you're trying to target.

Sir Sanju (04:34):

And I think that's a big gap that people find. Yeah. Um, and this ecosystem is that when they go into it, they build this beautiful website and, you know, God bless them. But when it comes to convert or get the one website to use it, they find that it's not quite what they want it or the quality of what they're bringing to the website. Zoe does it, who they're really targeting. Right. So, you know, the, the time that goes into a website, you know, and you know, of anyone, they'll tell you, Hey, I'll do it in 48 hours, two guys who say this is for six months. Um, but there's value in both scenarios. Right. Um, you know, websites has become so diverse. That's no longer going in and building a one page website saying, all right, good for 10 years. Right. Um, you know, it's looking at now, am I an e-commerce site?

Sir Sanju (05:17):

Am I a small business? Am I a consultant? Am I a restaurant? And kind of, kind of that expands or contracts, the depth of your website, right. Or what you want to do. Um, you know, and then, you know, some of us, some of the larger organizations, there's someone who's to build something more, long-term sustainable. You want to go through the whole design process. Right. Actually creating the mock-ups, um, you know, making sure that things are placed properly, that you do the testing before you even start development. Right. Versus, you know, a lot of the new startups are a lot of, you know, guys up there who were running a restaurant or starting out a new bakery or looking at a new real estate brokerage or whatever, it is, just need something to kind of get up there and get the message out there. Right. So it's understanding where to put your money and how to kind of put your time. Yeah. But also understand that it's valued too. Um, making sure that mandation is relayed properly. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (06:07):

I think it also kind of adds a little bit, uh, air of legitimacy nowadays. Not that somebody can't fabricate a false website, but if, if you give somebody a business card without a website, you know, people really question, question that. And I think it's a good research tool because, you know, and we'll say with the higher dollar, as we walk up the, uh, you know, the service or products that are going to cost more, I want to do some research to make sure who I'm dealing with because unfortunately in this day in time, um, it's easy to give somebody a credit card number or write them a check and then never see them again. So, uh, and again, the website, I know it's not going to solve all of those issue, but I think it gives us as consumers, a place to go learn more about it. Uh, you know, who we may be hiring

Sir Sanju (07:01):

A hundred percent. Right. Um, it represents you. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's unfortunate that a lot of people don't understand the value. Right? The other thing that people don't understand is, you know, in the building websites today, there are a lot of our clients are people that come to us. They're like, well, I just need, want to set up. And they're looking at three to six months out versus where we really started thinking as how's this going to evolve in a year, three years, five years, because you don't want to rip out those guts and make that investment again. Right? Yeah. You want to build something that's going to grow with you or give you that ability to, um, completely customize it to where it works. Right. And it's, it's tough. Right. Because a lot of people, it's not, you know, you don't understand it just like yesterday, I had a plumber come to my house and he looked at my stuff. He's like, who did this in trial? And I'm like, how am I supposed to know this? Right. So it's I get it right. Yeah. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (07:52):

Yeah, no, I get that. Sometimes people look on the back end and go, Ooh, what happened here? But you know, websites have evolved and we'll talk a little bit about that. I've had guests, the last few guests I've had make me feel like I'm a ancient dinosaur age because, you know, back when websites started, a web page was texts. And it was basically, uh, you just regurgitated everything you could think about yourself, your business, your product, your service on one page. And that page may be, um, you know, what, we'd call like a standard, you know, 10, 12 screen links of just, you know, scrolling through texts, texts, texts. And so, you know, as things have evolved and as a technology definitely has evolved, we've gone more to picture base and, you know, pictures, videos, but more visual base than what back in the day.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (08:46):

So talk a little bit about the integration of pictures. Uh, and also the, the depth I'm less, I don't know, the easiest way to say is that the, uh, depth of a website versus the link. So instead of having everything, um, you know, just all lined down on one page where people have to scroll because, you know, I think it's, it's, uh, we only have a few seconds to capture their attention. And so I'll let you talk to that. And then I'll jump in. I've got just a, you know, a few things that, uh, observations that I've picked up.

Sir Sanju (09:25):

Well, it's kind of fun is as you I'm just describing those websites, that's when I started loving websites. So it was in your fire. GOC is, and it was all animated gifs everywhere. And the more cheaper you can make it look appealing, nothing more effective, but was right. Exactly. It's funny that, you know, like those are the days when I used to literally pull from old patterns code right off the top of my head. Yeah. Um, that's, it's bald like crazy. Right. And it's finding that that solution that works for you is become more of a challenge. Right. Um, you know, a lot of things that we need to start focusing on are the wide, you know, what the ecosystem is again, because you can build out a website and you can stick it all on one page and you can still do that. No problem at all.

Sir Sanju (10:08):

Um, but if you're looking to build something that's going to generate leads, um, or that's going to attract that right. Type of client, that's when you start talking about the SEO side of it and talk about the Legion side of it. Right. Um, and making sure that that strategy is fitting into this website that you're building. So little things like, you know, making sure you have at least 500 words of content on every page, right. From a SEO perspective. Right. Um, making sure that your copy is legitimately your copy, right? You didn't pull it off some in Brazil,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (10:36):

Stop. I'm going to stop you right there. Cause that's an important part that, uh, that's, you know, it's been a change the last few years, but I'm not sure people really understand that is my understanding is that Google will not index anything under the 500 words that you speak of. So what you're saying basically is we've ha we need 500 words on the page in order to get Google, to read it and index it where people can

Sir Sanju (11:01):

Find it at least. Yes. And now there's that fine balance of 500 words versus 5,000 to say the same thing. Exactly. And then, you know, w when we get into the SEO side, there's a whole difference of keyword stuffing versus legitimate times. Exactly. Um, but, but for the purposes of the website side of it, um, it, it's making sure that there's enough on every page that people are engaged. Yes. Um, you know, and that is, needs to be a healthy mix of text, um, audio or potentially video, potentially an imagery. Um, we are getting much, I don't say lazier, but our attention span is definitely reduced significantly harassed. Right. Um, and, and the problem is that, you know, our audience start shift on the younger end, our client clients younger. They're literally gonna look at it and in three seconds on it, right there to engage with it or not even understand it.

Sir Sanju (11:53):

Um, you know, so you kinda gotta cater to everyone. So if you have sort of a mixed client base, um, your older clients will be the stuff you're middle-aged guys, and probably watched the video and young guys look at images and vote yay or nay. So it's, you know, making sure that you kind of capture everyone, uh, everyone's attention and kind of get them to fill that magical form. I didn't get in touch with you. Right. Um, and giving them enough ammo to do so. The one-page website, in my opinion, is very starter, very, very, very starter. Um, you know, for, for most businesses, to me that going to last, you maybe three to six months, they're starting to grow. Right. So again, it's looking at that investment that you want to make. Right. Do you want to make it one time upfront and kind of expand and scale, or do you just want to test the business and see what happens? And you're okay with kind of going back and doing it. Um, and it's a tough decision to make, right? Because obviously when we're all starting something, or we're in the middle of something, you know, the goal is, Hey, 30 years from now, I own the world. Right. And then, you know, there's a level of realism that has to kick in with that. Right. And some scaling,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (12:52):

Well, let's talk a little bit about, um, um, kinda jot some notes down as you go, cause this is so important, but let's talk about the difference between stock pictures and, um, more realistic pictures of people, operations things. You know, my, my opinion is that, um, you know, people look at stock photos now and they, you know, kind of like, eh, whereas if, if I have a picture of me, me and my dog or doing something I enjoy doing, it's like, it gives people a way to bond with you, connect with you. What's your opinion on that?

Sir Sanju (13:29):

My opinion is doctor that. I mean, we, we usually refuse to stop those. Um, uh, the only time we used to stop, if there really is no other way to convey that message or to not feel it right. Um, you know, without having to hire an actor or whatever it is to pose for it, most of our clients do prefer live action pictures. Um, you know, it's not necessarily the personal pictures, it's a lot of the professional pictures. Um, we keep those personal pictures for their, about me page, let's say, or their social media. Um, but from a overall website standpoint, you know, let's say they're a dentist, for example, you know, pictures of the practice, which are the hygienist, if you're happy patients that are actually patients, um, you know, and leveraging those assets to, to kind of be the messaging that they want

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (14:14):

Yeah. And their equipment inside of their office. And that's, you know, those things that are, um, you know, it's important because you want to see, well, what does the inside of this place look like? So I think those are important, important,

Sir Sanju (14:29):

Like for like lawyers, Oh, look, another picture of a gavel [inaudible] so it's again finding the right imagery to convey the message without ever getting into cheesy stuff. Right. Or getting into free trade stuff. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (14:45):

So let's talk about, uh, the length versus the depth, because that, again, I feel like is a change in, you know, what I try to do is instead of, you know, having everything run from the top to the bottom and, you know, basically utilizing just one homepage it's, um, what, what I've been told and what I kind of feel now is that, you know, we have that page that comes up that it's really awesome if it fits right in the screen, but then we give people options to go deeper, depending upon what they're looking for. And, and you mentioned about you, maybe you want to find out, you know, where did the dentist go to school? Uh, maybe, you know, there's other topics that services, things like that, where they can click on whatever their interest in and go deeper into a website and not just, you know, have something that's just flat and more linear.

Sir Sanju (15:41):

So, so it's really multipurpose. Um, you kind of have to have both and I'll explain. Okay. Um, you need to have the short depth to the guys who lined up on your website. And I just, I just really quickly want to get to know who you are, um, click the form and get in touch with you, but you kind of have to have the depth from an SEO perspective because when you're running campaigns and you're running, you know, let's say again, let's go identity. For example, you want to implant campaign. Um, you know, you want them to end up on one page that has detailed about what it is. You don't want them to end up on the services page. That's just the high level overview. So you kind of have to mix both. Um, and again, this will vary industry to industry, but majority of them and pretty much into both, right. Cause if I land up on your site, let's, you know, Roy referred me to that dubs was XYZ. I'm just going to look around and super comfortable with the guy. Right. But if I go through social media or Google and I'm looking for an implant, for example, I'm going to click and I want to learn about implants or what you think about implants I align.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (16:35):

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's more, uh, maybe I misspoke. That's kinda more what I was talking about, but the, you know, the, the front page kind of captures your attention, gives you the choices. And then once you click on it and get deeper, then that's where you have, you know, the 500 word or more explanation. In-depth explanation about services, the, about you, different things like that. It just, um, also it, um, it keeps people from having to search because I, my opinion, when you have a long front page, I'm trying to search for this information where if it's concise, even the visuals that, you know, you have the block that says services or whatever, it's just eaten. You know, I, I'm guilty of losing all the patients that I used to have. And, you know, I want it quick. I just want to click it a few times. I don't want to have to scroll because you know, the longer I have to scroll and look for something, I become very, um, unengaged and, you know, I'll just move on to something where I can find it easier.

Sir Sanju (17:41):

Well, I mean, you know, you've got to think this way, by the time they reach a page, potentially 30, so desensitized to the topic that they're going to read them. Right, right. I've, I've always kind of said that, you know, a good website, no one really goes to the homepage because it's not really necessary. But if you're going to focus your efforts on the homepage, above the fold of the browser, the window that they're using, you should highlight your top two or three things that they're going to be looking at. Yeah. Right. So if it's a lawyer, let's say it's family law, um, litigation and collections or whatever it is that they specialize in those top three are right there and then go right into it. We're going to keep going if they don't want to.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (18:18):

So let's back up just one step. But it's something that just came to mind was the, um, the domain name. So, you know, what is the science and the art behind let's choose a good domain name. It has gotten tougher. I'll tell you, there's so many websites out there. There's so many brokers that buy these things up, hoping to capitalize on them. So, you know, what, what is the thought behind choosing a good one?

Sir Sanju (18:45):

So, so kids, so this is a weird one for me because of the way I structured my stuff. Um, so my primary domain is ask us for anything.com. Okay. And the thought process behind that was because we were a marketing agency. We could literally go out and source anything and find things. I mean, we've done stuff from weddings and conventions and things that you normally wouldn't be able to do. Um, but the way we shifted after three years was we have a primary domain, which is genome, google.com, um, which refers back to that page. So the signs of a domain, um, number one, there's a broadening aspect. So as close as you can get your brand, get it. And then there's the vanity Legion aspect. So if your strategy is to create a landing page about, um, just because I'm in it, let's say social media, I don't know, Idaho by social media, idaho.com, right.

Sir Sanju (19:35):

Build a landing page, drive the traffic to it, get your needs that way. Right. But as your primary front facing domain, it needs to be representative of your company brand because that's what people are going to search for at the end of the day. Okay. Um, in terms of the.com versus the dot, you know, dot me dot code or whatever, um, obviously.com is always preferred. Um, but you know, nowadays we sort of suggest to clients and they buy the.com.co and probably the.net just to secure the brand overall. Um, because those are still fairly common and still being adopted by most. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (20:08):

I had a guy, uh, I was talking to a few months ago that he had a.co and, you know, and all of his emails, he always preference. No, I did not leave the M off of that. That's a dotcom Nazi. It's all right. Uh, yeah. And what about going across all of our social media channels? Um, to make sure, you know, if we're, if we're selecting a name, you know, kind of not my personal name, but just a, you know, a made up company name to go through all the social media channels to make sure that the same, um, format or the same way you lay it out is available in of those. That's

Sir Sanju (20:48):

Getting a really tough nowadays. It's, it's actually crazy how hard that is. It's almost harder than domains nowadays. Um, you know, so, so there's two ways of thinking of it. One is you make sure your primary ones are the same. So your Facebooks and Instagrams are exactly the same by initiators, I guess, mostly, um, those three are the same and everything else is what it is. You kind of both get some variation of it. Um, or like a domain. You find something that's sort of a neutral, but so speaks to like, it's on Judah, you know, it sends you or it's Roy or Roy or official or whatever it is. Um, and find something that works across all the mediums across that way, but it is getting way temper. So usually again, when things like when Tik TOK came out, you know, the first thing we told people, it's just, you're not gonna use it. Doesn't matter, secure the name. Right. Go get three years named security. Right. Because you never know what happens in a few years, right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (21:38):

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I just wrote that down tick tock. So I don't want to get, I don't want to get all too far off on that, but, um, you know, for, for us, people that have been around for a while, we'll put it nicely like that, you know, Tik TOK used to be for dancing teenagers, but from what I'm hearing now, a lot more mainstream businesses are using it to, um, you know, show, processes, procedures, whatever. But I think they're like a minute clip, or maybe you can tell us a little bit more about that.

Sir Sanju (22:11):

There's a, children's an interesting, like you said, it started off more as a, as a teenage, uh, you know, something for my kids to do kind of thing. Um, then as you know, when they started developing an influencer community and developing, um, more of, uh, a base of people that were able to, um, sell product, it started became steam, right. And then obviously the, the good or bad PR, or we won't think of it that came out across the States, you know, just kind of repelled me personnel or the interest in it forward. Um, checked off is great for the, I would, I don't want to pigeonhole it, but also the younger businesses. Okay. Um, you know, or, or the guys who have a social media team that can create the content because it's very difficult to create content that's engaging with tech talk, right.

Sir Sanju (22:54):

Like you really got to go off brand sometimes to create something fun. Okay. Um, but usual we'd say is, you know, created a talk video, but, you know, use that in your marketing efforts, on your Instagram, on your Facebook companies like that, um, create ads to advertise, get in front of influencers there, if you're, let's say clothing company, um, and leverage that side of it. Right. So again, depending on the industry, it's really going to vary, um, the usefulness of it, like, you know, as a lawyer, I mean, what are you gonna do? Right. I mean, yeah, I'm the dancing lawyer, like I dunno. Right. Right. Exactly. So for that kind of stuff, you know, there's obviously there's much less room to do things. Um, but if we can leverage it for advertising, Hey, you never know. Right. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (23:35):

Yeah. And if you make a product, I think that was, uh, somebody was telling me that it can't be, it's like a glassblower, maybe something like that, that he did a little clip about actually he did the process. So, but I think the next part of that is even if you can create content on there on social media, we have to be careful about where our clients live, because I'm just thinking most of my clients, probably not, not on Tik TOK. So while there may be a couple, would it really be worth my time and energy to create something to be.

Sir Sanju (24:06):

And honestly it saved for us. I mean, and we've posted maybe five videos today maybe, but the main thing, the main strategy was to secure the breath and see what it says. As long as you just get the brand to grow in the closet when they put applies to you one day. Awesome. You got it. If not, at least, you know, you're clean.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (24:22):

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so, uh, kind of move on. So now we've got our cool website built and now what we really need is people to put eyes on it, uh, search engine optimization, SEO, you know, that's kind of the wizard behind the curtain that we talk about it. We know, but well, we talk about, we know what it is, but do we really know how to do that? So let's talk about some SEO tips. You know, I know that you mentioned keyword stuffing, that's a no-no nowadays. And, uh, but yeah, go ahead and tell us, you know, so now that we've got our cool website set up, what are some things that we want to do to make sure that we are, you know, optimized and that where people can find us or will find us?

Sir Sanju (25:13):

So there's a few, there's a few different kinds of SEO, right? There's the technical SEO, which is things in your website itself, your header tags are all teenagers, like whatever, technically on your website that has to be, um, optimized working through those pieces. So that's one part of it. The second part of it is what's called on-page SEO, which is what we've kind of been talking about a little bit, which is the content on your website. Um, you know, making sure that, you know, let's say looking, you're looking to attract, you know, um, I don't know, uh, you're looking to attract a certain type of person looking for, um, kids both let's say, right. So, you know, whatever's in your content. One kid's post has certain keywords. So let's say kids quotes, Houston, kids, clothes, New York, um, you know, cute tubs for girls, things like that is within these content that you're building.

Sir Sanju (26:00):

Um, so that when we do put that onto the search engines and then push it out there, um, it's signals to Google saying, Hey, these guys are actually talking about this topic. Okay. Um, and I'm, I'm very simplifying this quite a bit, uh, high-level wise. And the third part is what's called off-page SEO on page SEO is you reaching out to other websites, um, with high domain authorities and saying, Hey, can we post some content for you? Um, or can you post some content for us or what can we do to work together to kind of leverage our networks together? Um, it's also leveraging things like Reddit's, um, Quora's, uh, you know, going in and responding to things, um, if you can get access to Wikipedia and then God bless then, you know, doing something we compete. Um, but the, the is kind of tying that into backlinks, right.

Sir Sanju (26:45):

And making sure that whoever you're associated just like real life, whatever you're associated with has a good reputation and we'll take care of you. Right. And take you kind of uptake you for that ride with them. Okay. Um, you know, so all three of these things need to work together. The problem is, is that a lot of people tend to only do the on-page SEO. Right. Which is, okay, we'll write a blog a month, we'll optimize the keywords. Um, and we put it up there and good luck buddy kind of thing. Right. Um, w which isn't, you know, it's, it's one third of the struggle literally, right? So it's not necessarily the right thing to only be doing. Um, and I understand sometimes it's the budgetary constraint and, you know, somewhere to start at least, but eventually builds is the plan should be attacking the other two because as Google algorithms change, which, I mean, this year they change, what three times, four times isn't the same.

Sir Sanju (27:34):

Um, you know, they're constantly evolving and getting smarter and you can't cheat the system. Right? Like you can't take this blog and post on for the websites, you know, for the lawyer websites, for example, we're going to go this little copyrighted. Right. It's not the same. Yeah. Um, you know, so, so being, being honest and transparent about what you're putting out there, investing in that content writer, if you have to, you know, just a little bit, even to give you points to talk about, um, is well worth the investment in the long run, because what you don't want to happen and what we've seen with a lot of other good way that we get all the clients is, you know, they'll work with another company, Google change algorithm. We go from the first page to God knows where, and like, we just moved 30 grand over two years or three years where they log out. Yeah. Right. Versus the way we build it takes, you know, it may take six months to get you there eight months to get you there, which is fine. But when you're there, you're there, if you move from page one, you might move to page two and then we can kind of see back by my real calibrating.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (28:31):

Yeah. And there are so many tricks to that, to that. And you have to be careful because just like we were talking about the keyword stuffing, uh, it's a good way to get you taken off of the Google rankings completely. Yeah. And I don't know how long that sentence lasts, but you know, everybody, you know, it kinda jokingly call it Google jail, but I mean, it can be devastating if you depend on web traffic for your business.

Sir Sanju (28:56):

Understood. I mean, anyone that, that tells you, Hey, I'll get you a page one in 30 days or less. That's, what's called black hat, black hat SEO. And I please just run, just run, hide. Dude's got to do a proper SEO strategy, depending on the competitiveness of the industry is at least six months to start getting new CTO.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (29:13):

Yeah. And we have to be patient to do it. Right. And, uh, there's no shortcut. There's just not. And, and that's why Google. And it's funny. Cause I was actually doing some research on, uh, on search engines the other day. Cause somebody mentioned one from, you know, way back in the nineties as like, Oh, I hadn't thought about that in a long time. But th this is why I actually really, um, Google capitalized on is that search engines, you know, they just looked at words and so keyword stuffing a page was the way to go. But what happened is, you know, the web pages became so spammy that you could go to 10 different sites and it not really be what you were looking for. People would just put all these keywords on there and then try to sell you, you know, some, some other crazy gadget. And so, you know, while it's tough, I think we have to be respectful of the fact that, you know, it really, as the consumer, on the other side of that, it's really been, uh, you know, a good thing for the industry because it kind of keeps everybody legit and not doing, um, you know, these borderline hokey things

Sir Sanju (30:20):

I fully fully agree. And again, you know, you gotta respect the guys too, you know, how to have a sales strategies and maybe doing it the same way that they did five years ago. But you know, it's not their fault necessarily. Right. Because things evolve so quickly with some of those for us, it's kind of hard to keep up. Right. And make sure that we're optimizing that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (30:38):

Yeah. So behind the scenes, um, you know, you're talking about the technical part, like one thing I, you know, I think about is, uh, the Ault message on images, you know, it's, I think, tell us a little bit more about that.

Sir Sanju (30:57):

So, so the key is to wait with alternative. So first of all, for whoever doesn't know about, so ultimately just when you hover over the image, it'll usually pop up a line attacks and say boy with blue shorts, right. Um, also, uh, all texts, an images is very important for our friends that may have, you know, are visual disabilities or other disabilities, um, you know, to make sure that they can have an optimum experience as well. Right. And that's fair. Gentleman's got to play together. It's spare for that. Um, you know, so the, the purpose of that is to be able to succinctly describe what the image is, um, while not becoming a bold paragraph. Right. So what we usually say is, you know, it's giving what's in the picture, maybe a color of the picture and describing what's happening in the picture in terms of an action, but no more than let's say 12, 15 words max.

Sir Sanju (31:46):

Right. Okay. Um, the other key part is, you know, a lot of people get lazy cause guys on the bad front end, you know, clients don't understand or see the backend. So the developer go in and put boy blue shorts, boy, blue shirt, boy, blue shirt, boy, it's all the same thing. And it's like, but it's not the same image. So that actually gets dinged by Google because they're like, they're just using the same image over and over then. So what are you trying to do? Right. Um, you know, and the other cool part is that if we do tag it properly and start to show up in Google photos and starts to show up in those searches, which just gets you more exposure at the end of the day.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (32:19):

So, and that brings up the, uh, the difference between, uh, pictures and videos. And some, this has been a while ago, but somebody told me that it was more or less with blogs, you know, used to, when you blog, you just put the text up there and that was it. So then it was, well, we add pictures now, ads, video. And, uh, a guy told once that, um, when you use a picture it's like leaving breadcrumbs to your blog or to your website, when you use a video it's like leaving chocolate or bread trumps to, to, to the same place. So is there, uh, really more value to use videos where appropriate versus a picture versus nothing at all?

Sir Sanju (33:01):

So, I mean, as much as, you know, the old adage of, you know, pictures will be a thousand words, YouTube is actually the biggest surgeon in the world. So it's not even Google is actually routes are owned by Googles and difference, but, right, right. So I, I think to me that's a huge statement in terms of the value of how it, um, you know, especially now it is just culturally renowned streaming services and content out there. Everyone's just moving towards a model where they'd rather just watch something in 30 seconds to a minute, then actually have to focus and read it. Right. Um, yeah, there's just so much problem, but, uh, you know, so, so I think being able to, um, serve people's needs or serve them in a way that they want to be served. Content is probably obviously more optimal for your, for your success. Right. But like I said, in the beginning, we need to have that balance of the three types of content. And just to make sure we hindered everyone and

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (33:55):

About services, like, uh, like Yoast and you read about some of these others they have on page. Are, are those, uh, valuable? I know I'm sure they're not as valuable as hiring a professional like yourself that can really dig in and go much deeper. These are very superficial and, uh, you know, can give you some guidance, but are they effective in helping you

Sir Sanju (34:18):

So most is actually pretty good. Um, uh, again, if you just need to get some sort of a head start on it and get some understanding of, you know, how to optimize your page a little bit, this is actually a pretty good school. I mean, I know we've used it a few times. We know if we got stuck on something or trying to figure out a more creative way to do it, we'll go to it for inspiration. Um, you know, but the, the power, the results you're going to get comes from the mining or the industry tools behind it, right? Like, yeah. Um, yes, as, as someone who just goes to a website and wants to just get an understanding of where they stand from an SEO perspective. I mean, I think Yost is probably one of the more solid ones and more reliable ones out there,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (34:58):

You know, and you mentioned earlier back links the importance of them. And, um, that's a difficult game to play because you do have to take a lot of time to reach out. But the, again, the value of that, if you can land them is phenomenal. But let me ask you this. So a true back link would be, uh, let's just, let's just use the mic, uh, Microsoft, or, uh, you know, in MSNBC or some huge website, a big presence like that. If, if they had an article written by me and they had a link to my website, that's a true backlink. Now, if I just put a link to one of these major presence on my website, is there any value to that

Sir Sanju (35:46):

There's value to them very minimal, but the value to them, to them, right? The, the, the hard part about backlinks. Uh, if again, if we've had a website up for five, seven, 10 years is, you know, the original strategy backlinks, just immense quantity and Lance, you didn't care if it was the da one or J 100 set at that point, you just wanted more in mix. Um, what happened two years ago? And the change algorithms is we literally have to go to new client sites and clean out thousands and thousands of back links. Cause the whole thing strange, changed and rightfully so to quality versus quantity. Right. So, you know, I I'd say looking at back links, I don't think it's the primary of your strategy. It's, it's, you know, one of those things that supplements and helps them move. Yeah. Um, but if you're going to do it and you're going to invest in and make sure it is in quality, um, and it's again with pages or brands or blogs or whatever it is that you want to be associated with.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (36:39):

Yeah. And you know, it begs to mention this right now, we'll talk about, you know, cause we're not going to get deep into social media, but with social media, there's a difference between, uh, actual quality likes and in, in, um, engagement versus just vanity likes and vanity engagements. And so with links, it's the same thing. There are a lot of people out there that'll tell you, they'll get you these back links, you know, for, you know, $5, a backlink or 10 or 50 or whatever. But again, they have what I call a back link farm, where they just have some old website that they're putting all these back links to you again, uh, Google has wise and up to this and there are penalties if, if you do that too much.

Sir Sanju (37:28):

Yeah. They do. And it's interesting too. There's a lot of, um, and not to knock anyone, but there's a lot of digital agencies that build the websites and build our own phones that way. So they'll leverage your website and getting ranking on SEO, but only because they're leveraging the other 50 sites that they're working on or, or have up and running. Right. So as soon as you leave their ecosystem, it was a complete waste of your time. Right. Right. So it's, it's, it's, it's kind of dirty, but you know, I guess it is what it is. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (37:56):

Yeah. And, and again, it comes to be quality over quantity. Uh, one in what I think you call it a da, is that like a domain authority, they're different, there are different levels where the Google, the Microsoft in, you know, NBC they're way up there. And then, you know, the rest of us are somewhere, somewhere way down below that

Sir Sanju (38:18):

Bailey, you know, what's funny about that. Even getting to that, if you're a first month pumping, you're selling show, but the da 90 site who was again going, how did you do that? So that's, it's a bit of a weird game where he kind of got bounced, you know, no more than 50 per now. And then, you know, add a few fifties that move up and kind of go from there. So it's, it's really a bit of a science behind the right and making sure that you're always going to find yeah. And making the Google gods happening.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (38:41):

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We don't want to, don't want to make them for sure. Yeah. Cause I was looking at, uh, uh, I have a, um, a little stat tracker that I looked up the other day and I think what Google is still at 95%, 90 to 95 somewhere crazy of all the search traffic in the world right now. So you definitely have to play by their rules and it's, so it's constantly changing. They're always upgrading and doing so, uh, you need to find somebody that can stay on top of that.

Sir Sanju (39:14):

Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (39:15):

Well, again, again, we appreciate you taking time out of your day. So I want to ask you what is a tool that you use in your world? Um, it can be professional. It can be personal and, and it not just the tool that could be a habit or some kind of a ritual, something that you do every day that you just can't do without

Sir Sanju (39:36):

I rely heavily on. And I know it's not quite original or tool, but my team, I got to say that, you know, I think, you know, knowing that the team that we have behind us, knowing that, you know, the, the brain power that we have behind us and the passion that they all have for the clients and for what they do, that's what really is my kind of ritual, you know, wake up in the morning, going all right. We, we have really good people who love what they do and we just want to take over the world. And I think having that motivation and having that, that mutual respect between all of us is really what kind of keeps things moving and driving and aspiring to do more and more. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (40:15):

All right. Well that's all. No, that's a good answer. Cause it does gives us that peace of mind when we, when we open the door every day, then we've got, we've got a good team behind us instead of worrying about, is anybody going to show up or what things may happen during the days? I know that

Sir Sanju (40:30):

I get to keep my hair. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (40:33):

All right. Well, if you don't mind, uh, before we go tell everybody, uh, who is your client? What can you do for them? And then of course, how that they can reach out and get ahold of you.

Sir Sanju (40:44):

So our, our clients, um, is really anyone that wants to grow. So the way we operate is we don't specialize in any one industry or anyone's size of client. We work with people who are interested in going down a path with us, um, wherein they trust our process and let us help them grow. Um, so we're very bespoken that way. And we're very limited in that sense that, um, you know, we really come and become an extension of their business. So that's really what we're looking for. Um, you know, Morales, how big, what advice, and I was happy to work in people and people's, it's all part of the process of growing, right? Um, you can find us online at askusanything.com or AAU, the number four, eight.com. It's easier. Um, our Instagrams at G and L media. Um, and you can just look me up on LinkedIn and I'd be happy to connect in and having these conversations with people. All right, great. And

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Drive More Traffic To Your Website Here Are Some Tips and SEO Hacks (41:34):

We'll put all those in the show notes for you as well. All right. As long as you use, thanks so much again, it's been an awesome and uh, what I really need to do is get, uh, you know, we'll set up a time for you to come back because like I said, we could take hours upon hours to talk about each and every one of these subjects, uh, you know, we didn't even get social media or the branding, you know, design and branding component. So, uh, we'll do that and get you back on soon. All right. I appreciate your grandma's thinking. You bet. All right, well, that's going to be offered today. Of course, we are the business of business podcast. You can find us at www.the businessofbusiness podcast.com. Also Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and, uh, this, uh, uh, this video of this interview will be put up on YouTube as well. So, um, again, if you have any, uh, ideas that you would like us to address, uh, please reach out to me [email protected] and we'd be glad to, you know, find subject matter experts to help you out until next time, take care of each other.

www.askusforanything.com

www.linkedin.com/in/sajug

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Want to Get Your Emails Read? Here Are Some Great Tips with Ellisen Wang

Help your emails to stand out from others in an overcrowded inbox. People like to read about problems when you ask them questions and list. These are some surefire way to get the recipient to take an interest in your email. Stories are also naturally engaging. You only have a few words to grab the reader's attention. Make it count. Chances are you won't get a second chance

About Ellisen:

Ellisen Wang is an email copywriter, author and publisher of "How to Become an Email Titan." He also publishes daily copywriting, email marketing, and business tips on his blog. He has helped clients in many different industries including non-profits, startups, ecommerce businesses, real estate, and tech companies write engaging sales emails that their subscribers look forward to reading.

www.ellisenwang.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Ellisen (00:02):

Hello,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (00:02):

And welcome to another episode of the business of business. Uh, I'm Roy, uh, the focus of this show is to bring, uh, professionals and experts from all disciplines to, uh, help our small solo preneurs entrepreneurs, smaller businesses to give them, um, uh, some tools to hopefully be more successful, but then also give them some resources just in case they need to reach out and get some help. So, uh, today, uh, we have an awesome guest Ellison Wang. He is an email copywriter author publisher of how to become an email Titan. He also publishes a daily copywriting, email marketing and business tips on his blog. He has helped clients in many different industries, including not for profits startups, e-commerce businesses, real estate and tech companies, uh, writing, engaging sales emails that their subscribers look forward to reading. Alison, thanks for taking the time out of your day to be with us.

Ellisen (01:08):

Oh yeah. No, thank you for having me out. Yeah, you have to be here.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (01:11):

Yeah, no, you know, we, uh, we got, uh, got hooked up over, you know, you kinda stood out for me with this email writing because it's become so important used to everybody open every email they got now it's kinda just the opposite. A lot of people, if they even use email anymore, you know, a lot of people just, uh, they don't recognize it, they ditch it or, you know, put it over in the, uh, the pile to open when they have more time later in the week. And sometimes that never happens. So, you know, writing an engaging email where people, like you said, look forward to it, it's such an important part of our outreach these days.

Ellisen (01:50):

Yeah, it is. It definitely is.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (01:53):

So, uh, I guess let's just start at the beginning of we're gonna, is this gonna, I guess we could talk about a couple of different things. Uh, one would be a one-on-one you're writing an email to me where maybe we've had some previous contact or I looked at your website, but then also, uh, more of a, you know, a bulk email type thing going out to a lot of prospects. Let's start with that one first. Um, you know, if we're, we got a new product, we got a new offer, so we're gonna, uh, blast an email out to all of our, uh, you know, everybody on our email list. W where do we start with that? I know, you know, intuitively the, um, I guess the, uh, subject line is going to be the very most important thing.

Ellisen (02:42):

Yeah. Um, well, let's see. So, yeah. So let's talk about assuming that, like, the people that are emailing to, um, you know, they'd been on us for awhile, is that like yeah, it was even assumptions to me. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, let's see. So I think the first place I would start with is like, what is the problem that, uh, that your product is solving? Okay. And then what I like to do is, uh, I like to write a series of emails that really, um, pinpoint on those products, uh, that products, those problems. Okay. And the reason why is that, you know, when people read about problems that, you know, they can relate to, it's naturally engaging. So, and just, you know, and it's really the whole psychology behind, like, you know, talking about problems, listening to, uh, you know, drama and everything. Um, it really ties into a little bit of that.

Ellisen (03:54):

That's why, you know, people love those reality TV shows and the whole thing about gossiping and everything like that. Um, so that's where I would start with, and then once you have those down, once you have, like, the problem's been pointed, um, what I like to do is I like to write the email and I like to write a story that kind of relates to those problems. And, um, again, stories they're naturally engaging, you know, where, uh, our brains are pretty much hardwired to be engaged to those stories, to storytelling. Yeah. Um, and yeah, so once we get into the story, what I do next is just figure out how you can tie that story into the product or service you're selling. And then once you get to the end, um, Oh, that email that's, you know, when you do your whole, uh, your whole pitch and everything like that, and then send the paste the link that will get them to the sales page, where they can read more about it and, uh, buy our product and service. So, yeah. So that's really the main, uh, approach. That's how I go about how I would go about it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (05:23):

Okay. And you mentioned, uh, in the beginning, you said a series. So what do you consider a good number for a series of outreach emails?

Ellisen (05:34):

Uh, so let's say if we're doing a launch, that's like, I don't know, five days as long. Um, what I would do is I would do, I mean, usually I w I do like one email a day. So like, for my personal example, um, when I opened my application to, uh, to new clients and things like that, um, I usually sends one email a day, sometimes two emails a day. Um, and then on the last day, uh, you know, I do one email it early in the day, and then one, maybe like a few hours before the deadline. So, so what I'm trying to say is like, when you're doing these launches, uh, it's good to be, you know, a little more aggressive with emailing. Okay. Is what I'm trying to say.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (06:42):

Okay. Okay. So let's talk about the length. Uh, you know, if we want to tell a story, some of us are a little bit wordy, you know, non-rider rider types. If we tend to think, you know, sometimes we think more is better and it's not always the case. And, you know, there's that debate. And it's a little bit off the topic, but we'll just use, um, uh, you know, blogging, for example, there's, there's the, the mindset that shorter's better tension spans are shorter, but then if you look at rankings, it's like more content, more words tend to have more eyes on them. So with emails, what is the strategy with length?

Ellisen (07:29):

Uh, Hmm. I mean, I like to keep mine relatively short. Uh, I usually keep mine around, uh, usually 300 words because I know that people get a lot of emails a day and they're busy, you know? So they don't have time to read like a 1000 word email. Yeah. But there are situations where I see people emailing, um, a pretty lengthy email, like there's, there's one copywriter. I know who sometimes when he launches a product or an affiliate product, right. He would interview the owner of the products and he would get that interview transcribed break into like three or four different parts. Okay. And then he would just send that out. And then at the end he would, um, paste, you know, the affiliate link. So as a result, the reader, they get a little bit education from that interview transcripts, and then they also have, you know, a lot of opportunities to buy. So, um, you know, so it's, I want to say it doesn't really matter because as long as they hear from you, because that's what really matters. It's like the relationship you build with your readers, um, the connections you made and just the constant contact with them. Okay. You know? Um, yeah. And as long as you send, you know, relevant, interesting information, they'll be, you know, there'll be more than happy to hear from you, you know, regardless

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (09:16):

At one point there used to be a, um, kind of a tip, I guess you could say that you put the, the person you're sending it to their name in the subject line. So is that still a thing, or I guess what it tried to translate was that you knew them and it made it a little more personable than just, uh, you know, cause every now and then I get emails where somebody forgot to put it, the insert, the names. And so he, you know, you get one that's either to the wrong name or to just high with no name or the, the little symbol that you know, where you insert name. And so, um, anyway, there, it was a theory at one time, like put the person's name in the email subject line that kind of makes it a little more personable.

Ellisen (10:10):

Um, yeah. I, uh, when I, before I did the copywriting thing, I used to run a, a blog where I, um, uh, I taught people how to build their own computers and, uh, how to improve gaming. So it was in that niche. Okay. Um, yeah. And then, so I set up like a whole autoresponder series when people opt into my email list and yeah. So for me, when you add the name to subject learning and things like that, uh, I do it for like the initial email just to get their attention a little bit. Um, but then once you builds, you know, the initial foundation and relationship with them and they get familiar with their name, um, and then they like what you read. Uh, I found out that what you write in the subject line matters a little bit less, and it's really more of, Oh, if it's from you, if they see your name. Right, right. Uh, you know, you know, they're gonna want to open it. Yeah. You know?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (11:30):

Yeah. And that's another, uh, point too is, um, you know, you don't have a choice on the top of your email or in, you know, when you set it up, you can put w this is more for like a solo preneur entrepreneur, but you can put what people see as the name, the re you know, you would see my name. W w does it matter if we put the company name or is it to put the person's name? Can they relate more if it's an individual than the company? Or how, how does that work?

Ellisen (12:01):

Yeah. I always advise, uh, to put your personal name, just to make it seem, does it seem a little bit more human? You know, like people want to hear from an actual person rather than, you know, a company, uh, like, uh, I like to call it a faceless company. Right. Um, but yeah, it really adds like that human aspect to it because, you know, like, would you rather hear from, you know, a company or, or friend, you know, it's like that whole saying, um, I remember one of the marketers, one of the old marketers, Gary Halbert, uh, he taught a seminar, um, about like mail advertising. And he had this whole lesson about pile a pile B, where if someone gets mail that's from like a faceless company, it would go in pile a, which is the garbage pile. And then if it looks like it's from, you know, a friend or a person, uh, it would go into pile B and then that's likely to get open more. So that same concept, uh, also I apply it to email as well. Okay. Okay. And, um,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (13:29):

So on the, you talked also about OD using auto responders. What is a good, um, I guess what is the situation where the auto responders work well, versus the, the human kind of sending out more personalized emails once there's a response?

Ellisen (13:52):

Um, wait, can you clarify that a little bit more?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (14:00):

Yeah. Just like the, uh, you know, if you send out, uh, I guess, uh, you know, a book and then if somebody clicks a link or something, they'll be, that's in the email then maybe there, that sets off a secondary email that comes back to them. And I'm just wondering, what is the, you know, if you have a huge, gigantic list, I understand that it's a little bit more complex, but with smaller lists, uh, you know, is it better to maybe handle those individually? And I guess that would just really depend on the volume that you're sending out.

Ellisen (14:38):

Um, Hm. I think if you have, I mean, if you're dealing with a smaller, you a smaller list, um, I mean, I still recommend that you do some type of, uh, like trigger automation. Like that's the one where you're talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. So like the, yeah. Trigger on vision. I still suggest that you set that up. Um, just so it saves you time, you know? Um, and yeah, that's what I used to do for my blog as well. Uh, yeah, it definitely saved me a lot of time, you know, I could just using that time. I could have just use it for, you know, other things as well, like, you know, writing, developing, um, you know, my website and growing my email list and things like that. Um, but now I really simplified it. Um, so for me, like I, I emailed daily and there's what I do is like when people opt into my email list, um, they get that initial email, that welcome email where, you know, I tell them what's going to happen, uh, what, what they expect, um, and that, you know, that free opt in bribe that I promised.

Ellisen (16:10):

And then after that, I just send them a daily email, you know, so yeah, my ways is very simplified. Um, you don't have to do it that way. It depends on the business really. Um, but if there is a need for you to set up those trigger automations, I do recommend you do it. It does save a lot of time and it's also, it adds to their personalization as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (16:40):

So you mentioned that you, uh, you have, uh, like a subscription, uh, a bribe to get people to opt in. What do you, uh, what do you typically, what do you typically offer? Uh,

Ellisen (16:57):

Me personally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (16:58):

Well, or, yeah, or just what would be a good suggestion? Is it just, you know, more information or is it like a, maybe a special series on some, some topic or,

Ellisen (17:11):

Yeah, so I mean, me personally, I, uh, so my book, how to become an email team, I promote the sample chapters of it. Um, but one really good suggestion is, I mean the little one, like if you're going to give away information, um, make sure it's something that once the person gets it, they can implement it right away. Otherwise they're gonna get it downloaded. And then probably it's just going to sit on their computer forever and on opens. Um, another thing is that if it's possible offer something that has like a real retail price tag on it, just so it seems, you know, a lot more, just seems a lot more valuable, you know? Like that seems more valuable compared to, you know, just some random ebook you made in just like one week, you know what I mean? Right, right. So, yeah, maybe like an old discontinued product that used to sell, but you don't really sell any more. So you're going to give away for three, or maybe like an unpublished book, which I thought about doing as well. Um, but it's just a matter of me sitting my butt down and actually writing it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (18:40):

Exactly. So what about the, let's talk about the, the form of the content of emails. Again, you know, there's the theories of you, you write very professionally, not over people's head, but you, you don't write like you speak. And unfortunately, I'm one of the guys that I write just like I speak. And, you know, I usually that works for me because people that typically people I'm emailing usually know me. And so it's not as big of deal, but what is the, what is your suggestion on that? Should we kind of, uh, just write it the way that we are? Should we go back and kind of clean it up and I'm not talking about grammatical errors or misspelled words. I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about word usage, different things like that.

Ellisen (19:35):

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm kind of like, just like you, I kind of also write how I speak as well. Uh, so my tone is very, it's very casual. Right. Um, and you know, there's several reasons why I do that. Number one, it's, it's a lot easier, right. It, um, and it helps my writing process become, you know, faster. Um, but also it's, it's fun to write when you like, write how you speak. Right. And my way of thinking is if you have fun writing your emails, then the person who is reading it is going to have fun reading it, you know? Um, yeah. So it's not always necessary to, you know, be, to be super sophisticated and everything like that. Um, I know that that's kind of how, like, at least my college kind of teaches me how to do it, but it's like, it's just, it's just plain boring, you know? Yeah. And one of the things about email is that like, it's, it's good to like have some educational value out of it, but it's also important to be entertaining as well, you know? Um, because if it's not fun to read in the first place, no matter how valuable it is, um, they're not just, they're not going to be able to get to the end of it, you know?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (21:16):

Well, and it's things have changed a lot for some old guys like myself, you know, back when, uh, when the internet first came, it, you know, everything was very formal, no emotion or no personality injected. And I think we've come a long way, not even designing our websites, but also our emails is that people want to, uh, you know, they want to get to know who you are. People buy from people who they like. Of course. And so I think kind of interjecting a little bit more personality, um, into emails is, you know, we don't want to get crazy and be unprofessional. Of course, that's not what I'm saying, but as long as we keep it professional, but we can have a little bit of personality interjected. I think that's a good thing.

Ellisen (22:03):

Yeah, it is. Um, and it also depends on like what you want your personal brand to be, because there's a lot of different people I follow. Some of them are more professional. Some of them are more, uh, they're more, they're more polarizing, so it really depends on how you want to set yourself up in front of people. Right. Um, but yeah, I definitely agree.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (22:30):

That brings up a good point. I was, uh, you know, I was reading an article the other day about this was more about advertising, but it was, should you introduce, uh, the shock value into your ads? And so let's, let's, let's kind of talk about that in emails. Uh, you know, a lot of course depends on our, like you said, our business, our brand, but does the, does the shock value of saying something, you know, kind of crazy in our email, does that have any, uh, is there, does that add any value or get us anymore, um, click throughs or look throughs then than just putting out good information?

Ellisen (23:15):

Yeah. Um, it's definitely gonna get some more engagements. Like I have tested it myself because in the past I've written emails that, uh, it's like on the edge of controversial, you know, a little bit. Yeah. So a few examples. Um, I talked a little bit about how the, uh, the beauty standard is, you know, it's just unrealistic and people just should just shouldn't even pay attention to it basically. Um, I also gave my, uh, uh, I just talked about my political beliefs so that, you know, that, you know, just politics itself gets very, it gets crazy. Um, but yeah, I got into it a little bit without, you know, going a bit overboard, but it does get engagement from it. Um, and of course that leads to sales. Uh, but yeah, so the shock value thing, you kind of want to do it, you kind of want to do, do it sparingly, you know, you don't want to do it so many times where that kind of becomes the norm and then that kind of, that effect just diminishes, you know what I mean? So

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (24:55):

I think it's like, uh, I think you're right on using it sparingly and just compare it to, uh, you know, we used to have, uh, like nighttime soap operas and they would be really good, like their first season, they would be good, but, but then they would do crazy stuff. And so then the next show they had to do something crazier and then the next one crazier until it got to a point that it was unbelievable. And so I think, uh, you know, I think we could do the same thing with our emails. It could just get to a point, it either you're going to turn people off or it just gets to the absurd that nobody's listening anymore.

Ellisen (25:34):

So what

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (25:34):

Is your thought on AB testing? Um, you know, I've, I've always thought that it's a good idea, but, you know, I had a guest on not long ago, that was just, you know, we were talking about the fundamentals of it and, and things like, uh, who saw it, what time of day were they in need? You know, there's a lot of variables behind it that he, his position was, it's just not worth it. Do you have an opinion on that?

Ellisen (26:04):

Uh, yeah, I would, I would have to agree also that Julie, just now, where is it? Um, like I've tried it on my old blog thing and the results is just, it's just not worth the efforts. Um, so like it, again, it really comes down to the relationship building with your readers and the thing I said before that, as long as they get familiar with you, they like you, they like the content that you give them. Um, it really doesn't matter what you write on the subject line or whatever you're testing. Right. Um, if they see it's from you, then they're gonna, they're gonna be willing to open it and read it, you know, and see what you have to say. Yeah. Split testing is just, you know,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (27:10):

Yeah. I mean it just, and again, he actually, after we discussed it, it kind of changed my beliefs a little bit. I I'm, I'm kinda the same way as that the, you know, all the variables, if we took a group of 50 people, two groups of 50, all the variables, aren't going to be the same for each one of them. So, you know, it could be very, very misleading, um, the results.

Ellisen (27:33):

Yeah. And there's a lot of other factors as well, that's going to affect my results. So it was just not reliable.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (27:41):

Exactly, exactly. Uh, well, I had one more thought and I guess that has escaped me, so, Oh no. What I was going to say, talking about the AB testing, another good thing that we need to realize as email senders is we are not going to be for everybody. And so we, you know, we, if we send out a hundred emails and we don't get a hundred responses doesn't mean our email was bad. It doesn't mean our product service. It just means that those people weren't interested. I mean, it could be bad emails, it could be bounced. It could go to spam. I mean, there are so many variables again that go into that, but we have to be very patient. And, um, unfortunately in sales we have gotten very impatient too. We want to make a phone call. We want to reach out with one email and expect somebody to hit the buy button with, uh, you know, with lower dollar items, three, four, $5. I think you have a much better chance. People will take a chance on that. It's not a lot of loss, but if you're selling high ticket items, you know, five, 10, $20,000 services, then, uh, you know, we have to be patient. We have to take the old agrarian, uh, view that we have to, you know, we have to plant, we have to cultivate before that we can reap the benefits of that. So again, patience, patience.

Ellisen (29:14):

Yes, definitely. Yep.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (29:17):

All right, Ellison. Well, thanks for taking time out of your day, uh, what is a tool that you use, uh, could be in your business life? It could be in your personal life, but what is something that you do, uh, that you use daily or a habit that you just couldn't do without?

Ellisen (29:37):

Hm it's a habit. Uh, yeah. So one thing that I do, so, like I said, I, uh, I email every single day. Right. So, and because of that, I always need to have like a constant flow of new ideas to write about. So, um, what are the habits that I do actually? Yeah. One of the habits that I do is that I sit for 20, 30 minutes in a quiet room by myself. And I just think of new ideas to REITs. I always try to come up with at least three, but more is better. Um, and I just write them, write them down, knowing just, yeah. And just do like a, just like a, just block out time to just do a brainstorming session. Okay. Um, and then another one, if I can say yes. Uh, I also, I also journal, I also journal every day, so, and I don't journal in a way where I just put a timer for like 15 minutes and just writes, I always, uh, set a goal for myself to write at least 750 words each day.

Ellisen (31:00):

Wow. And when you do that, uh, number one, your tolerance for writing becomes a lot higher. So writing an email every day for me now is just, it's just effortless. Right. It just feels like, um, I dunno, it's just light work to me, you know? So, um, and then also when you journal, you also get a lot of email ideas as well and fun facts, the cover for my book. I actually got that idea one day when I was journaling. Yeah. So yeah, journaling really helps. I totally recommend it. Um, it's good therapy too. Uh, and, uh, yeah, journaling and then just the,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (31:51):

You make two good points. I think first off is the creativeness. Uh, and there was a, um, I heard a, uh, professional that spoke on this not long ago and it was focused more on children, but I think we, as adults can have a takeaway from that is that when you are so heavily scheduled, you do not, your brain does not have time for that creative thought. And so, you know, that's, um, kind of like, you know, back in the, uh, pre-electronic date, we'd keep talking about how old I am, but, you know, pre-electronic days when kids had to think about, you know, they had to make up stuff to do on their own, but they had time to be creative and, uh, you know, like riding it, it takes, um, unless you just have a huge inspiration, I mean, you have to sit down and it needs to be thoughtful, the subject, what you're going to say, how are you going to say it?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (32:46):

What order are you going to say it in? So anyway, to make carving out that time every day, just to be creative and think about what we want to say is important. And then I've also heard, and there's a couple of systems out there where you can, uh, they will prompt you to write 350 to 500 words a day. And that's exactly what it is it's supposed to kind of, it's just like walk or running. You're supposed to build up your endurance to be able to write easily. So those are both good tips. Now, when you journal, do you journal a pen and paper or do you journal on the computer?

Ellisen (33:28):

Uh, I do it on the computer, the computer it's much faster. Um, and it's just less tiring as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (33:37):

All right, Allison, well, thanks a lot for taking time out of your day. Again, we certainly appreciate it. If you could tell everybody how they could reach out and get a hold of you, and if they want to get on your email list or look at your blog, how could they do that?

Ellisen (33:55):

Yeah, so they can go to my website. It's a Ellison long.com E L L I S E N w a N g.com. And then when you go there, you'll see a splash page where you can, uh, opt in to get the sample chapters of, uh, how to become an email Titan, which are basically just handpicked chapters, just to get you started on like building an email list. And, um, you know, my way of my methods of writing email, um, if you don't wanna do it, that's fine too. You can just go to the home page and then you'll see my blog where I have, uh, all my daily tips there. So it's your choice. Okay.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want to Get Your Emails Read Here Are Some Great Tips (34:41):

Awesome. Well, thanks a lot Ellison. We appreciate it again. This has been a, the business of business podcast. You can find [email protected]. Of course we are on a Facebook, Instagram, and a Twitter. You can also find us on all the major, uh, uh, podcast platforms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, Spotify, and you can also find a, uh, a video of this conversation on YouTube when it's posted as well. So until next time, take care of each other.

www.ellisenwang.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign with Bobby Machado

To work with you have or start over? That can sometimes be a very tough question to answer. If it's just a few small tweaks you are talking about when re-optimization is certainly the way to go. If you have more work to do, like a fundamental change in structure and theme it may be better to start from scratch and work on a parallel site offline.

About Bobby:

Bobby is the CEO and Lead Strategist at Signa Marketing, CEO at Sector 7 Apps, and a partner at Quick Job Products with his brother Cesar Machado.

As a kid, Bobby always had an interest in business such as providing landscaping services, training horses, or reselling “Tang” back to his parents during 5 grade. His experience in the digital world began when he taught himself how to code websites in high school, which turned into a way for Bobby to make money on the side while racing motocross, which remains as one of his passions to this day.

After he stopped competitively racing at the age of 22, Bobby decided to focus his full-time efforts in web development as a freelance web developer, which then introduced him into the digital marketing world. Being the analytical and creative type, Bobby developed a passion for digital marketing and data.

After working at an automotive digital marketing agency as a paid media specialist, managing a little over $300,000 per month in Google Ad spend for several auto dealerships in the United States, Bobby combined my passion for business and launched Signa Marketing.

Signa Marketing currently makes up about 70% of Bobby’s time and he enjoys hosting a Signa Marketing show named “Blueprint”, in which he answers any and all user-submitted questions on how to market their business online. New episodes are released on Signa Marketing’s YouTube Channel.

Overall, Bobby enjoys being immersed in anything “digital” that has a positive impact on people and humanity.

www.signamarketing.com
www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm your host, Roy. This is going to be the fourth installment of our digital marketing series on SEO. Uh, glad to welcome Bobby with Signa marketing back to the show. How's it going, Bobby?

Bobby (00:17):

Hey, Roy. Great to be here. How you doing,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (00:20):

Man? It's going good. Uh, I just want, thank you so much. This has been an insightful series and for those listeners that may be just tuning in for the first time. If you'll go back a couple of weeks, we put out episode one is an introduction and episode two, we talked about the on-site SEO. And then last week we talked about, uh, something, uh, that's not really mentioned a lot, but offsite SEO and the importance because that's, uh, you know, kind of some of the Google foundations are built on that. Off-site, um, the links back to our site. So today we're going to talk about re optimizing or redesigning an existing site. And I guess this is for people that may be having neglected the, the SEO function for a period of time. And it may be easier just to kind of start fresh again.

Bobby (01:06):

Absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of people, you know, have had an existing website and they're like, Hey, you know what? I'm not happy with my current rankings or organic traffic. And there's some, they're finding ways of how to make tweaks to it and stuff like that. But usually the approach is kind of where a lot of people struggle at. And so that's what we're going to cover today.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (01:24):

Right. Well, let's just jump right in. Uh, so what would be, uh, you know, w where do we draw the line between tweaking what we've got and maybe just saying, throwing up our hands saying, look, we just need to start, start from the beginning.

Bobby (01:37):

Yeah, for sure. So a lot of times it comes down to the foundation and really assessing, you know, from, as your website's foundation from an SEO standpoint, workable, and can we build off of it or is it going to actually hold us back from doing what we need to do? And so a lot of times it will be even from a technical aspect that the site's foundation is just super outdated. It's going to be incredibly slow forever. And always, it just really needs to be a hundred percent uplifted. And sometimes the cost of doing that type of work is more than just replacing the entire website. Uh, and so that's, that's why what's what you're looking to assess. Um, sometimes when you're redesigning a well, actually when you do re design a new website, the opportunity with doing that as that you can actually have the entire website meet your SEO objectives a hundred percent, even from the user experience standpoint. And a lot of times you can't get that type of impact if you're uplifting a current website. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (02:34):

I think you mentioned a good point, uh, in one of our previous episodes, is that really, that's what SEO is all about. It's about that user experience. And, uh, Google has been very good at figuring out, you know, uh, what users want or where we need to take them. And so it's, if we can have designed a good experience on our website, then, uh, probably our SEO is going to be up there anyway. But you know, this is a point that I usually don't try to put out a lot of plugs, but this is where I will say that you need to reach out to a, uh, an expert like Bobby and his team, because you could spend a lot of time redoing or tweaking your existing site and spend time and money and still end up nowhere. And then, or if you make this decision to re optimize, it's a big decision, take some time and energy, but you can do it wrong too. So you can redesign a site and end up right back in the same place where you were with your old site. So this is a great time for, I guess, that SEO audit where somebody like yourself and your team can really have a lot of input first off making the go, or no-go do we need to change? Do we need to redesign, but then what are some of the components that we need to capture in that redesign?

Bobby (03:49):

Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. You always, actually, I mean, whether you hire an agency or even do it yourself, you always want to conduct an audit to understand, you know, where, where are you at? You know, what, what do you need to do? And so you can make those decisions, uh, that are best for the business. Um, doing a, uh, an SEO audit. Of course, you want to start with benchmarking, uh, stats. So some really high level stats while we'll, of course be like analyzing your, uh, organic traffic, uh, year over year to see, you know, are you trending in the right direction? Uh, what are the pages that make up the most of your traffic? Uh, what are the top ranking keywords that are driving the most traffic to your site? Uh, stuff like that. There's going to be some other indicators that are a little bit more underground, but there are strong indicators like domain authority, uh, and then also what we call citation flow, uh, and trust flow. And I know those are almost kind of like jibberish there, but even if you do some Google searches, you'll, you'll start to see why these metrics are important because they're indicators to letting us know our, where are we trending in the right direction? Or actually, are we doing stuff that is very unhealthy for our SEO ranking? Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (04:54):

A couple of questions I have, uh, first off is that, you know, this is a long, this is a long play. And so you, um, it's not recommended that you put your side up and after two weeks, you're wringing your hands about SCO, wondering what we can do to, I mean, we're always wanting to do to make it better, but a couple of weeks is not gonna, uh, you're not going to have a huge amounts of traffic, uh, flowing over to you. But the other thing I was thinking about too was, so what about stagnant sites? I mean, just somebody that built the site five years ago, even though it may be optimized for mobile, and it has a lot of the right features, but there's been no update or no new activity, does that penalize you, do you need to be refreshing your content quite a bit.

Bobby (05:38):

And the best way to answer that question really depends on the actual industry and the service itself has your, as your service actually changed, you know, because you don't want to necessarily change things just to change it. Um, you want to make sure that you're doing everything with the purpose. Um, and so, I mean, to this day, of course we do. We still see certain static websites that haven't been touched in eight years, still rank at the top of Google. It happens. Absolutely. Uh, you know, and so every site and industry is different because each market micro market in the census is different in different players or are doing different things. So if you're in a very competitive market where everyone is really doing a lot of optimization work, well, then you'll most likely have to match that speed or surpass it so that you can provide more value to the end user, but are there certain industries that are, you know, much slower in terms of how they move? Absolutely. And at that point, you know, the competition is probably less and everyone's more static in that point. Okay.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (06:38):

Yeah. And, and even at that, I think a good way to differentiate yourself is always putting out fresh content, answering people's questions, because even, you know, like what I think about is different situations that come up in my day, uh, they're not always the same. And so being able to ride or do a video about what was that certain situation that, uh, it, it never hurts to put it out there because you can probably bet that somebody else is having that same problem and they're searching for an answer. So it might as well be you that they, uh, hit to find that answer.

Bobby (07:09):

That's exactly right. Yeah. But, but yeah, I mean, when it comes to, to reauthorize the site, that's what is going to kind of, uh, well, we touched on earlier is it's gonna have to do with your foundation and really assessing, Hey, is this foundation workable or not? Uh, or is it going to cost me more, you know, just working off this foundation or, or is it going to be more effective and more efficient budget wise, just replacing the whole thing?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (07:34):

Well, things, again, we talked about in last episode is if, uh, you know, back in the olden days when they actually had to hardcode sites and they weren't, uh, automatically optimized for a cell phone. So again, probably more important if you're in the B to C space, then you know, B to B may still be a lot on computers, but you know, that's something to look at is that it's not going to do you much good, uh, to really tune in your site. If, when people look at it on a phone, it's just a total mess. So that would be a huge key. And the other thing I think is speed, uh, you know, Google wants our stuff to load faster and faster, and it's, it's kind of counterintuitive because we also need to use more pictures and more videos. So those, you know, those have a drag, but there are ways to compensate for that. But those are the kind of things I think that really, uh, some of the big points that you may want to look at before undertaking redoing a whole site.

Bobby (08:31):

Yes, that's exactly it, a hundred percent. And with, um, the CU the cool thing with redesigning a site, even from a technical, like a technical standpoint, is you can at least build it in such a way where it is faster. It is ran green photos, uh, much quicker and stuff like that too, because sometimes to take an existing site and really have to nitpick and do those types of optimizations can cost lot of time. And a lot of times you're kind of just there's conflict and more friction in that sense. Um, but, uh, when you are redesigning a website, the benchmarking aspect is huge because, uh, you may have a site that is actually ranking really high for certain pages, you know, and there's a lot of traffic and you don't want to disrupt that. And so that's why I read it. When you approach redesigning a website and replacing a whole site, you really want to make sure that you are not disrupting, what's already working.

Bobby (09:24):

And so that's why the benchmarking aspect is so important. Uh, one, one, uh, example of that would be making sure that you don't really mess with the URL structure too much in, in such a way that it's going to disrupt the rankings. If you have to do that, which sometimes you absolutely have to do that to reorganize, uh, information on the site. You want to make sure that you have three Oh one redirects, uh, in place, which means that you're telling Google, Hey, this URL doesn't exist anymore. And here's the new version of it permanently forever. Here it is. And so, as long as you're setting those rules and, uh, in, in that sense, um, in guiding the search engine, then you're following a process. That's very safe to maintain those rankings that you already achieved. You're just directing traffic into a different area.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (10:09):

Okay, awesome. Yeah. So what about, what is, uh, let's talk about domain authority. I think we've touched on it, but if you could tell us a little bit more about that.

Bobby (10:18):

Yep. So domain authority is a metric, uh, created by, uh, uh, MAs as a company, uh, ammo Z. And so if you even type in domain authority on Google, you'll see their article most likely pop up at the very top to explain, you know, why they created this metric, but essentially it is a metric to gauge the authority of a particular website. And it's, uh, it's graded between zero and a hundred. Your Facebook and Google is going to be 99. You know, they're extremely high. Uh, but a lot of mid level sites will tend to sit between, you know, that 30 to 50, 60 ish around there. Once you start the game to some pretty heavily authority sites, that's when we start looking into the 70 eighties, uh, and then maybe even nineties, those are like your big publisher sites and stuff like that. However, yeah. But it all local businesses and stuff like that, you'll start to, you'll see local businesses sending between that 30 to 50. Ideally what you want to do is get to fifties 30 is kind of considered healthy, but you're not ranting and raving about it either, uh, in, over be reflected in your ranking. So it needs a 50, 40, 50 is really optimal, uh, at that point.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (11:28):

Yeah. And if I'm not wrong, you can go on Moz. And, uh, I think you can just plug your domain in there and they'll, it'll return what that is so you can get a good idea.

Bobby (11:37):

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And that's why, when, when, when about to, you know, start your SEO journey as a business owner or publisher, you have to think long-term and no, okay. I'm going to start right now. And a year from now, we're going to start being, you know, getting some pretty good, consistent traffic, you know, six months you'll start to see things happening. Absolutely. If you're doing things right, but the maturity of that traffic is definitely a year out and then hardcore really solidifying and building that even further is two years and above after that. And so that's why the question of sometimes we'll hear a question of when can I stop SEO? And it's, that's almost like, well, when do you stop your business? A business money stops coming in. And that feels the same way you can, you know, a business, say, for example, you have cat, capital's stashed away from all the, you know, businesses you've stirred up. Maybe it'll last you some another year, but it's gonna slow down at some point. And with SEO, it's the same thing. It's a momentum game. So if you stop SEO after a year, well, you'll still probably absolutely be gaining traffic and stuff like that. But you are, you're opening the door for vulnerability because you have competitors really trying to take over your position. So that's why SEO is actually just a effort that actually never stops. It's something you always have to be involved in.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (13:00):

Yeah. Because it's like being at the top of the mountain, even if you're at the top, there's always people that are trying to unseat you from the top. So it's, it's always, even if, um, you still remain very relevant, there's always other people out there creating content and doing other things. And, uh, you know, again, we'll mention that this is such a, long-term play that, uh, I was listening to a podcast the other day about somebody posting some videos and they said it took them like four months of posting daily videos, but they finally saw that pop in there. So, um, you know, we, we just can't expect, maybe we get lucky and we, something goes viral. There's always that chance. But you know, for most of us normal people, it's like, it's just that daily grind of doing the things that you've got to do every day, putting out good content, uh, you know, working for those backlinks, just trying to put this whole thing together, as you said, it's a, it's a big puzzle. We're just trying to find all the rap pieces that fit.

Bobby (13:59):

That's exactly it. Yes. It, I mean, and SEO can pay dividends and when you invest in it, you do it right. I'll pay dividends, uh, from a bid perspective. Um, because I mentioned earlier, I mean, when you're sleeping, you're, you're attaining traffic, right? It's not a campaign, a campaign is a faucet of traffic. You can turn it on, turn it off, but when you gain organic rankings, uh, it's something that's very consistent, as long as you keep feeding the momentum. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (14:24):

Right. So, um, so we've gone through our benchmarking and, uh, w well, before we do that, you mentioned trust flow. I want to ask what is the, the trust flow.

Bobby (14:36):

So trust, flow, and citation, or two metrics that are created by a tool and a company called majestic. Um, and so trustworthy is going to be a measure of the trustworthiness of the links that are pointing to your site. Okay. All right. Citation. Well, is the influence that these links have, uh, on, uh, in terms of, uh, uh, rankings on your sites or in the authority on your site. Okay. So those, those two metrics are really important to make sure that you're attaining healthy back links and that you're not, you know, getting links from sites that have really low trust, you know, scores and stuff like that, that, that would be a bad indication. So that's why you want to make sure that those two metrics are, are healthy and getting as close to the number 50 as possible. Um, that that's why you want to strive for.

Bobby (15:23):

So, and typically those, those two metrics are something that's, um, really used by SEO. Strategist is not necessarily something that business owners have you huge involvement in, even when it comes to domain authority, the way, the way that we convey results is, is through organic search traffic. And is that traffic converting into leads or calls or sales. And so, um, so we always recommend that when you start, you know, really working well, we recommend the moment you have a website to have Google analytics, but if you start to do SEO, you want to make sure that your Google analytics account is set up and that you have goals set up within, so you can, uh, measure contact, form submissions, phone calls, stuff like that. Uh, because yeah, I mean, even though it's organic traffic, we want to make sure we're getting the right traffic, that's making a difference to our bottom line.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (16:17):

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's, uh, uh, I guess that's one of the bad points about trying to buy traffic is if it's not really a sustainable. And the other thing that we've talked about is time on a site. So if we're getting click clicks on a page and then they're exiting our website, you know, that's bad. So we just, when I try to tell everybody is just, you need to have a lot of patients formula form, it, formulate a plan and just stick with it and carry that out. It'll be much better than trying to take a shortcut because you may, some of these shortcuts may really, uh, may have a pop for a day or two, but if you get caught, they can penalize you for the next six months or a year to come. So anyway, just always want to reiterate that.

Bobby (17:04):

Uh, absolutely. I mean, and anyone that, uh, logs into your Google analytics account is going to tell when they see a spike of traffic, just go up out of nowhere and it's going like this, and it just stops. They're gonna be like, okay, well, what was that a paid campaign or something, but if it's organic track traffic farms,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (17:21):

Because it, you know, uh, we kind of get back to a more, this is more social media related, but, you know, there's a difference between vanity likes or vanity traffic, just so we can say we've got a big number versus that quality of somebody that may actually be a potential buyer. I mean, and that's what it is. I, I would rather have one website hit with the guy that bought than have a hundred or a thousand people just say, yeah, we really liked the site. You know, I usually use this example that, you know, the other night we went out to eat and I pulled out my thousand likes from Facebook and tried to pay the bill with it. And they didn't take that, you know, uh, was only like, so now we've gone through our benchmarking, we figured it out. Uh, we want to start, um, we need to rebuild our site. We're just going to start from scratch. So kind of where do we go from there?

Bobby (18:12):

So, so from there, uh, once you've actually made a decision of like, okay, you know, as my foundation workable or not, then the redesigning process kind of how we were touching on us. You want to make sure you're careful with it, and that you hire the right agency that understands how to redesign websites while maintaining SEO rankings. Yeah. That's super important. So just vet that part, because there is a way to go about that, um, and how to be careful with them, et cetera. Uh, if you are able to take the current site and uplift it in terms of, uh, applying SEO, optimizations and upload theme from that perspective, then you know, that that may be something that you can do, uh, internally if you have the resources or you will have to hire, uh, an SEO agency that has the development capabilities to implement those items too. So, you know, it's not just SEO, but technically what has to happen on the site from a development perspective to do things correctly. And so that's what you'll look for is to make sure that those capabilities are within that agency to make sure that you make the right decision.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (19:19):

Yeah, I touch on too. The difference between, um, being able, if the fundamentals are the, the base of the, the website is good and we want to stick with it, maybe it's just some other technical tweaks, the difference between working with the live website versus, uh, you know, sometimes like when you, when you restart and just redo from the very beginning, you kind of have that dummy site setting out there, uh, by itself that you can make all your changes on. You can see what's happening, but you're really not messing with anything that's live. So tell us a little bit about that differentiation.

Bobby (19:57):

Yeah, absolutely. So as far as any development process, you always want to make sure that you're making changes and updates on a staging site, uh, which is a copy of your live site and make making sure that everything's really just done on that first to make sure that there's no issues or anything like that, that you're not going to cause any functionality errors. And then once everything goes through a quality assurance process within the firm, then all those changes get applied and pushed to the live production site.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (20:27):

Okay. Yeah. And it's always good to have, uh, either yourself or somebody on your team, uh, actually visit your website every now and then, because, um, you know, a friend of mine, we were talking the other day and so tried to send her an email and it wouldn't go through. And so I said, well, maybe I got the site wrong. So I went over to the side and the site was down and, uh, you know, it's something that we don't think about it. We just think that it's always up and running, but somebody kind of needs to be in charge of, you know, looking at that periodically just to make sure it's still up and something didn't happen.

Bobby (21:01):

Yeah. You never, you can never go wrong with a good QA process.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (21:05):

Exactly. Exactly. All right, Bobby. Well, is there anything else you want to add about the redesign before we move on?

Bobby (21:13):

No, I think that wraps up, uh, the re optimizing and redesigning aspects. Uh, there's a lot of variables that go, you know, after, uh, after the last step of, you know, making sure that you, that whether you have internal resources or you're hiring and out that you make sure that you have the capabilities to follow the process, uh, safely for redesign or how to approach, uh, re optimizing a current site. Um, you know, that's, that's really gonna be the next step is making sure that you are covered and have the right capabilities to execute either, either route.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (21:45):

All right. Well, Bobby, we thank you so much for, this has been a great series. Uh, again, I want to just go back in the, in the episode, one was the introduction. Then we went through onsite SEO. Then we went through offsite SEO and went through the re optimization or redesign of existing site. Thank you so much for your insights and for doing these series a, these have been great. I've enjoyed it and learned a lot as I know our listeners have as well. So, uh, first off before we get outta here and tell everybody how can they reach out and get ahold of you either at, uh, Cigna marketing or at blueprint?

Bobby (22:21):

Yeah, absolutely. So you can find us online at signamarketing.com. That's spelled S I G N as in Nancy, a marketing.com. Uh, and then you can find us on social media at Signa marketing is our, uh, handle, uh, we have a great Q and a fun show called blueprint where I answer any and all digital marketing questions. And so if you have a question out there that's super specific to your situation, I'm more than happy to provide answers for it. Uh, feel free to just, uh, submit your question as a comment or a direct message on any of our social media platforms. And we'll make sure that it gets answered in the next episode.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Digital Marketing Series 2 SEO Episode 4, To Re-Optimize or Redesign (22:54):

Okay. Well, thanks so much again, for taking time out of your day to be with us. We appreciate it, and hopefully, uh, we'll be looking forward to you putting the, putting the nun one together. Awesome. All right, well, that's going to do it for us today. This is the business of business podcast, and we can be found www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com. We are on all the major social media networks. Of course, a video version of this interview will go up on YouTube when it goes live as well. So you all reach out and, uh, you know, get some help from Bobby, get your SEO dialed in. It's something that you, uh, you definitely need to do. And it's, it's always a challenge it's always changing. And so, um, you know, if you can keep up with it yourself, great, if not reach out for some professional help and guidance until next time, uh, I appreciate, uh, the listeners very well. And until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your business.

ww.signamarketing.com
www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

   

Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques with Cooper Krauss

Listen to your prospect, understand exactly what their problems are but tell them why you are calling and gain their trust fast. You only have few seconds to grab their attention. Understand the power of No! No is where selling begins. Don't be scared of clients that don't make sense for you business. They will only turn out to be a distraction.

About Cooper:

A highly successful Sales professional, Cooper Krauss has generated over $5M of revenue in just 6 years across various industries. He is now the Global Sales Director at Full Scale, one of the fastest-growing companies in the US with hundreds of employees worldwide.

As a sales leader, Cooper quickly climbed the ranks in Corporate Sales environments. Prior to joining Full Scale, he became the youngest Director-level hire in the history of a $700M Consulting firm.

As a podcaster, Cooper has appeared on multiple podcasts including a 3-Part Sales focused series on The Startup Hustle, a Top 50 Podcast Co-Hosted by Full-Scale Founders Matt DeCoursey and Matt Watson.

Proven record of building New Client Relationships by establishing trust quickly and solving issues practically. Practitioner of radically transparent Cold Outreach. Ability to quick establish Peer-Level Trust with C-Suite and Founders. My team and I secure meetings, facilitate multi-stakeholder discussions, uncover issues and drive revenue. Experience partnering with organizations from Start-Up to C-Suite at Fortune 100. Extremely passionate about implementing and executing a rigorous sales process from initial contact through deal close as well as leading and developing sales professionals.

www.fullscale.io

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (00:00):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm Roy. Uh, this is a show that we bring a wide range of experts and, um, knowledge base to the solo preneurs entrepreneurs, small businesses to, you know, try to help enlighten us sometimes as small businesses or as entrepreneurs. We may not know exactly what we don't know. And so this is a good, a good forum for us just to talk about different topics that may help you in your business. And then also give you the resources to, uh, you know, make some changes if necessary. Uh, today we're going to talk about sales and that's something we don't talk near enough about, but it's a very dear subject to my heart. I enjoy talking about it a lot and we are, um, uh, we're blessed to have, uh, Cooper Krauss with us. He is the global sales director with full-scale Cooper. Welcome to the show. Thanks for taking time out of your day to be here.

Cooper (01:03):

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here. I agree. People don't talk about failed enough, so I love it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (01:08):

Yeah. Now, you know, we talk about marketing. Everybody wants to, you know, uh, and not making light of that. We have to have marketing to get to sales. I get that, but, uh, it seemed like everybody's kind of piled in on that marketing space. And so, uh, that's awesome. But if we don't know how to handle the customer, once we get them through the funnel, to the sales, to the sales portion, then, uh, it's all meaningless. So, uh, let's just kinda jump in with, um, a little bit about what are you seeing today. I know there's been a huge environmental change, uh, for a lot of workplaces. Have you seen that it's had an impact or change the way that you do sales? And if you don't mind, tell us a little bit number one about how you got here and full-scale, um, you know, y'all have a developers that you may embed in other company. You can tell us a little bit about, um, what that's all about as well.

Cooper (02:05):

Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I grew up just North of Kansas city, Missouri, and a town called St. Joe about 70,000 people. Uh, and in 2014 I moved to Kansas city and, uh, getting into sales was a little bit of an accident and it turns out that, that I love it. Um, so what happened was I was serving tables at a bar and grill in downtown Kansas city and was waiting on a group of about 12 people. And when I checked them out, one of the guys that I was waiting on, walks up to me and says, Hey man, you kept that organized. No mistakes went well, good customer service. If you can do that, you can sell insurance. And, um, I was like, absolutely, I'll get off the serving floor and go, you know, sit behind a desk and try to try to build a career that way.

Cooper (02:50):

So, um, studied my insurance for property and casualty, you know, Autohome, uh, studied that for a couple of weeks past that, and eventually was able to sell life and health as well, but, uh, wards for that agent, uh, underneath the farmers for about two years. And it was one of those scenarios where like my second day, um, it was, they dropped a stack of papers on my desk and it was, here's some names, phone, numbers, and addresses. We'll see what you can do. So then you just start burning through as many phone calls you could possibly make. Um, and you're trying to, you're trying to gather quotes for people and you have to get some pretty intimate information about a person to get them an accurate insurance quote. So, um, that was a really good experience to cut my teeth. So I did that for, um, about two years, and then I took a role with them.

Cooper (03:37):

The company called Robert half, which is a five, $5 billion publicly traded staffing firm. Um, so my first role there was, um, in their division called office teams. So we were, you know, we were staffing, um, HR sales, um, customer service, data entry, really, I'm pretty sure lower level roles in terms of how a corporation is generally structured. Uh, so they did that and that was, you know, heavy sales and heavy recruiting, um, did well in that division. So then I got a tap show, a tap on the shoulder and see their accounting and finance division, um, and, and continue to do well then. Um, and then, um, at, uh, after about two years there, uh, okay. Role with a larger consulting firm, um, and, uh, was lucky enough to be hired there, the youngest director and in that company's history. And so that was, uh, a practice where I was, um, in charge of, uh, about a $4 million book of business across the Midwest.

Cooper (04:31):

And, uh, that business there was to help large companies with merger and acquisition transactions and system integrations. So leading that space and it, all that is, is, um, really, uh, those are all, all areas that I just mentioned that I had absolutely no technical knowledge or expertise around. Um, it was just the ability to, to dig in and know enough to be yeah. And no window kinda shut up and listen to your clients. So, um, and then in March of this year, I joined full-scale. So that's kind of the pattern of my career so far, it's about six and a half years. Um, and so join full-scale in March is their first sales hire. So that's where I'm at now. And as you mentioned yet, we've got a team of 200 developers that we, we embed into client teams, um, to support their, their development projects.

Cooper (05:20):

That's, that's the overall overall and primary full-scale business we also have. And I wear it every time I'm on another podcast is, uh, our, our podcast is called startup hustle and that's become a, it's been around for three years, about 500 episodes and it's become a top 25 entrepreneurship podcast. Um, so, uh, uh, yeah, 1.5 million lifetime downloads. So it's turned into a congratulations really sucks. Thank you. Thank you. Now I can't take too much credit. I'm not a part of it. It's our, our CEO and our other co-founder who they bring on other CEOs and CTOs and entrepreneurs five times a week to talk about their experience, but it's gained a lot of attention. And so due to that, uh, we've actually, we're, we're launching a web series about entrepreneurship called startup hustle TV, and just a few weeks. So, um, yeah, that's a little bit about how I got here and full-scale okay. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (06:09):

We'll have to check that out and I'll include that in the show notes too, to help out the entrepreneurs want to give them all kinds of tools, uh, you know, anything to help them out. So, yeah.

Cooper (06:19):

Yeah. I mean, those are the, those are shows where like the second episode is called getting funded sucks. So like, we, we really dig into, we dig into the, the good, the bad and the ugly of entrepreneurship. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (06:31):

Yeah. Let's do, before we get too far off into the sales, I, you know, you make a, you said you came out of waiting tables, somebody noticed you in, and, you know, I talked to people about that all the time for recruiting is that you have to keep your eyes open no matter where you are, when you find somebody that, uh, can be conversational, talk to people, you know, we can train them usually in the industry, but I can't, I can't teach people really how to be personable. I mean, that's just kind of a quality, a lot of people have, or they don't, you know, whether they're shy or just, don't like to talk. It doesn't, it's not that it's good or bad. It's just, some people are cut out for that sales role and some aren't. So you always have to be, uh, always be on the outlook for somebody that's, uh, you know, good and asking questions that, you know, I think too, also, uh, starting in that insurance, because that's what I talk a lot about is, you know, we have to ask questions.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (07:28):

I can't just call you and say, Cooper, I'm selling this product are, you know, how many can I sign you up for? And, uh, you know, maybe for low, maybe lower dollar items, we can get away with that. But you know, when we're selling consulting services, high ticket items, you know, I've got to try to solve a prop. Do you even need this? I mean, I, I, I got, I got a great John Deere out here behind the bar, and I'd love to say, but, you know, you may not be in the market or may not even could use a nice big old tractor. So, uh, you know, asking those questions right up front and getting to know your prospect, uh, that, that was a great start.

Cooper (08:05):

Yeah. And it's, but there is kind of like a, always a tug of war, I think, with being in the sales role, because as you mentioned, you want to, um, listen to the client and understand what their problems are, but at the same time, you also have this requirement to tell them exactly why you're calling and gain their attention quickly and respect their time. Um, and so there, there is that, that push and pull of, uh, I've got to get their attention immediately and be direct and honest, like, Hey, here's why we're, here's why I'm calling. Right. Uh, and then she to opened the conversation. So it is a bit of a juggling act.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (08:40):

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, we talked to a little bit uh pre-show you know, one of your, um, something that you talk a little bit about is the power of no. And so it kinda opens us up to, uh, you know, sometimes salespeople we're scared of no, uh, sometimes we're scared of yes. Just as much. So, you know, I think what, you know, part of this is that we want to get to yes. Or we want to get to know, uh, as quickly as possible, because even if I get to know if you're not client, it gives me a chance to move on.

Cooper (09:15):

Absolutely. And I think there's a two, I think there's two sides to the power of, no, of course the power of know, whenever, as you mentioned, we want to understand whether or not that client is interested in our product or service as soon as possible because we're salespeople and we want to close the deals ultimately. Right. Um, and so that, that's important to get there quickly, but it's also important for us to say no to clients that don't make sense for us. Right. And that's, that's something that I think a lot of people in the sales profession struggle with, because again, we're, we're quota based, we're number driven and anybody who wants to work with us, we want to say yes to, but I've got more than a couple of stories of clients that I should have said no to, and, and up creating more work for me, worked for our billing team or work for the operations team, because we brought on a client that really wasn't that good of a client. So there's kind of a two sides to the power of now.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (10:10):

Yeah. I mean, we have to be careful with that because it's likely, like you said, sometimes we can try so hard and, uh, you know, I'm this, not that I have this problem, but you know, there are some people that are so good at sales that, you know, they can close just about anybody and then they end up making a poor customer. They're unhappy, your team spends more time messing around with them. So it, it can be a dilemma as well.

Cooper (10:35):

Yeah. And I think that's, I think it's a bit of a PRI a by-product though. Uh, well, at least with, with larger corporations that are like just large sales organizations and they've got huge teams and, uh, you've seen the BDRs and, and their quote, their, their quotas book, this many meetings, you know, closed this many deals, so on and so forth. Right. They're they're so, so number driven and revenue driven that those reps will do just about anything to hit those numbers, to satisfy, satisfy their managers too, who were really, they were passed down those metrics from leadership. That's not even attached to the, to the sales process. Right. And so it's just kind of a, it's kind of a weird trickle-down scenario where, um, those reps are just chasing those numbers and they're going to get them at, at, at any cost, not, not a good approach.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (11:23):

Yeah. And, uh, I wanna, I wanna touch on goals here. And just one more thing about the power of, no, I think too, the other thing is sometimes we think of like, uh, uh, the, your prospect says, no, so we just hang up. But also before, sometime in between the no, and the hanging up, it also gives us an opportunity to ask why, because maybe, you know, maybe they just purchase whatever we've got. Maybe they can't afford. I mean, you know, there's a lot of reasons, but it also gives us that chance to open some dialogue to, uh, um, you know, maybe try to tell them how we can, you know, maybe they don't know what we do or what it was all about. Don't have a fundamental understanding. So anyway, it just didn't, I didn't want that as much as we want to get to.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (12:10):

Yes or no, just when somebody says, no, it just doesn't mean that we're done with the conversation necessarily. Now I'm not a hound. And so when somebody says, no, I may ask a couple of followup questions, but you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not one of those that sticks with them till they just slam, slam the phone down. I want to be respectful because just because you're not a customer of mine today doesn't mean that you won't be tomorrow. So that's another balancing act is we have to, you know, sometimes as salespeople, we have to push hard, but we have to push hard and still be respectful where, um, we can hang up the phone or we can end our meeting, uh, on a friendly terms. And give me another shot at you down the road.

Cooper (12:53):

Yeah. There's always a delicate way to handle an objection or, or a straight up. No. Um, and, and I think that one, one way to do that is to something that buyers smell is salesman or sales woman being timid. And if you're being timid, then they're going to eat you alive on that phone call. Right. And so if somebody says, no one thing that, that disrupts the thought process of a lot of buyers is by agreeing, agreeing with them. Cause they're like, wait, what? Like, yeah, no, I assumed you'd say, no, I'm reaching out about next year. I mean, whatever it is, just those little things where you're like, what you, you thought I was going to say no, and you still call me. Okay. Little things like that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (13:38):

Right. Right. So, uh, you mentioned goals and, and that's a good thing is that, um, you know, first off, I, I believe I've worked for companies before that really had some good metrics, but in the end they turned out to be a stick that, you know, they used to club employees with had a later date. So I think as we set goals, we have to be mindful of what, what is the accomplishment will and the rehab, uh, and the quality because, um, I will guarantee you, I could line you up 12 phone calls for this afternoon. They are not going to be people who are going to need your services, but I can check that off my quote, Alyssa, I got Cooper 12 causes afternoon. So, you know, it's a waste of time. And I saw this, uh, you know, I, I started out in that, um, cold calling space as well.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (14:31):

I worked for a brokerage company. And so, you know, when you're new, they give you the list and you sit down and make a hundred, hundred $50 a day. And we had one guy that he was making about $200 a day. He was knocking them out, but the guy never, uh, he never opened up any new accounts and he was struggling. So we got the pull in the, and this was back in the ancient days. We thought we were lucky. We had a phone log where we could see, and, you know, part of his 200 calls was his mother, his sister, his friend, the seven 11 down the street down the, uh, way, you know, because at the end of the day, he can say, I made all these phone calls, but they weren't to people who were going to be his customer. So, you know, I think it's just an important thing to remember when we set objectives, as they need to be in line with where we want to go and we need to, we need to make sure that the, I guess, the results of that are quality.

Cooper (15:29):

Yeah. And I mean, with, with how educated buyers are nowadays, it, the only metric that actually matters is did you generate the revenue with the right client, right. And that's never going to sat and that's never going to satisfy a publicly traded executive. You know, if somebody is on the, you know, somebody in the C suite of a publicly traded company, that's never going to satisfy them, but that's the truth, right? I mean, buyers can figure out really, really quickly on their own without coming to salespeople, what they need and shop themselves. Right. And so, um, yeah, th th the metric is, did you, did you earn a deal with the right client? Um, and even if I made it, I mean, you look at somebody who makes 150 phone calls and they're doing the shotgun approach and they don't know why they're calling anybody.

Cooper (16:24):

And then you look at someone who makes, and they look at someone who makes, you know, 30 calls that day, but before they make each phone call, they look at that person on LinkedIn. They look at that company's website, they look at the latest news releases. And that, that takes, that takes five minutes max. And that probably not even that takes three minutes. And then when you call them, you can have something to talk about. You can make a comment about how many recommendations they've received on LinkedIn, whatever it may be, because if you don't, you can only call them to talk about yourself, which is the quickest way for a deal to die. And you're going to get a higher response rate if you do that. So I'd rather make 30 calls and get 15 responses to then make a hundred calls and get nine. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (17:08):

Right. Yeah. Sometimes we need to choose quality over quantity for sure. Yep. Uh, yep. So, um, the, I think you bring up a good point by our, our buyers being smarter. Now, I, you know, we kinda, I think we have to keep that in mind to meet them where they're at, uh, you know, uh, makes me feel old sometimes to have to talk like this, but, you know, back in the day, but prior to the internet, you know, if you had a product or service, people may not know about it. So, I mean, it was a genuine lead in like, Hey, let me tell you about this product. Well, now, you know, buyers, that, that's a good point. Yeah, true buyers. They are the internet and they know more about you and your competition, you know, than a lot of sales people that I know. So, uh, I think that, you know, the research on who we're calling, but then also figure out where they're at in this process. And let's, don't start, you know, it's, don't start at the ground floor with everybody. Like nobody knows what this product or service is.

Cooper (18:12):

Yeah. That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about that. Um, in terms of, I mean, yeah, there definitely was a time where when you called somebody, it was, it could potentially be the first they'd ever heard of, of a product or a service like, like that. So that is a genuine, that is a genuine outrage. You don't, we don't really have that. That's probably, I would say that's probably the only luxury that modern salespeople don't have. Um, but just about everything else is, is dramatically enhanced in terms of our ability to go find prospects that make sense for us,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (18:47):

Right? Yeah. Yeah. The internet has been, uh, you know, it's a great tool. I know there's a lot of get us in trouble as well, but there's a lot of great tools out there if we just, uh, you know, know what to do and what to look for, it's in kind of speed gun and kind of going in that vein, I guess we could talk about, uh, something that you mentioned or, you know, in, uh, um, at the sauce at the guest on one of your sites was dish, this functional selling. And, uh, could you explain that a little bit?

Cooper (19:20):

Yeah. Um, have you ever heard of a, of an author named Mohan CALSA?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (19:26):

No.

Cooper (19:28):

So he wrote a book, um, he wrote a book that was called, um, Oh, what was it? I'm blanking now. Um, you know, it's funny because I have it right here. Sorry to do that. So it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, let's get real or let's not play. And so the whole concept is kind of, um, to put, to bed the desk that you put this bed, dysfunctional selling, and again, dysfunctional selling kind of going back to sales, people, reaching out to say, Hey, we've got this great product, this great service. We know you need it just sat down. And let me tell you how it's going to work like that. That is how sales was approached for a really long time. And to your point, sometimes that actually made sense because that buyer might actually not know anything about that, that lane. Right. Um, but with, with where we're at now, I mean, the truth is that there, there are definitely products and services out there that have unique, uh, nuances and tweaks, but not a whole lot of ideas are completely original anymore.

Cooper (20:42):

Um, so a lot of markets are saturated. And so, um, the idea then with, with Mon calls, his book is to, um, check your ego at the door as a salesperson, right? So really like for, for a given about what it is that you want, because if you forget about what you want, which is to close the deal and make money, if you forget about that, you'll end up closing more deals and making more money. Right. Because you're, you're not like it's kinda like, well, one of my mentors, um, whenever I was at Robert half hit, one of his first lines was that the less that you, the less that you think about making money, the more you have in your pocket. And, and as soon as, as soon as the sales person can kind of grasp that, uh, then, then their success level in terms of deals close and money earned it, it really changes because they're, they're not being selfish. I mean, who makes money being selfish. Right,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (21:36):

Right, right. Yeah. And sometimes they just get so anxious, you know, I've known a few like that, that they just couldn't, they couldn't even give away a glass of water in a desert because they were so anxious. And when they went in, I mean, they made the client anxious. They, it was just, it was not a good situation, but, you know, having them calm down and just say, look, you can't be worrying about the future. You know, like I said earlier, sometimes they were scared of getting a yes. It'd be like, Oh my gosh, what if they said, yeah, I'll take it then what

Cooper (22:10):

Th they were, they were anxious because they were thinking about that themselves. Exactly, exactly. It's kinda like, it's kinda like, uh, like speaking in front of a group of people, some good advices is just remember that it's, it's for it's for them. Like, you're, you're talking for them, not for you. Right. And it kinda, it can kind of relieve some pressure. So as a salesperson, if you've got, I mean, and to be honest with you, I'm a great example of that. Because before I was going to make my first sales call at a farmers, when I first started, I had to go to the bathroom before and gather myself because I was having a, like a mini panic attack. Cause I was sitting in, it was my, it was my first sales job. We're just sitting in a small office. Um, so both of the agents that I've worked for could hear me and the other salesperson who had been there for three or four years, I mean, we're all tight knit. And so, you know, I was like, I'm going to butcher this and they're going to hear every single word of it. Um, and then you just kinda, I went in there and gathered myself, came back out and did, and then, and now I've got, you know, uh, very comfortable making cold calls to people that have no idea who we are round. So it can definitely, they can definitely be overcome for sure. It's just a matter of focusing on the right thing.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (23:19):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just have to focus on your customer and, uh, you know, you have to trust yourself to a lot of times we don't trust ourselves that we have the answer and that's another thing, you know, we sometimes as salespeople, we feel like we have to have the answer for every possible question that comes. And as the customer, I have more respect for the guy that says, I don't know. I mean, but I can sure. Find out for you, you know, sometimes it's like when people have the answer to everything, you might start quiet unless they're very experienced you. Sometimes I start questioning, are they just making stuff up as they're going, you know, just where they have an answer to throw at me.

Cooper (24:01):

Yeah. Something to keep in mind as a modern salesperson is just like, you're looking up your customer on LinkedIn. If you're doing your job the right way. Right. They might be looking you up too. And so if you're, if you're in a, so for example, like I, I'm not technical, um, by trade at all, like I can't write a line of code and I, and I sell software development services. So when I'm speaking with chief and all of the officers at recently funded, you know, innovative startups, uh, I can't, I can't be asking them for one second because they know, they know when someone knows software development and you know, I've, I've been here nine months, so I I've gained some knowledge and I understand how to uncover issues, but when it gets technical too technical, I mean, I just I'm like, Hey, that's, that's over my head. I've got a development manager. You can, you can talk to, but this is, this is where it stops for me. And, and, and they get that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (24:54):

There's no shame in that. I mean, you know, sometimes we are tasked to be sales because we're good at sales, not because we're good at code development. And I think that's something to think about in the hiring process when we look at, you know, people's resumes, just because they may be the very best at the job that doesn't necessarily translate into, uh, that they will make a good manager or that they would make a good sales person for the project product.

Cooper (25:21):

Oh my gosh. That's uh, yeah, that's, that is incredibly accurate. And that's something that that's another, I would say another fault of really large sales organizations is they have a tendency to promote the person who's closing the most deals. Um, but there, there might be a reason why they're closing the most deals. They, they, they, their, their sweet spot might be, Hey, individual contributor. And, and they want to focus on their book of business and the person with, you know, maybe mediocre sales, but that, that leadership charisma is probably the way to go, but bigger companies, they just want to, they see that person that's made all that money and they want to reward them like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (25:59):

Yeah. And sometimes it's a huge mistake and I worked, it wasn't a sales organization, but, you know, I worked for a major corporation back in the day and our promotion process was who wants the job, or who's been here the longest. I mean, it's almost like a battlefield promotion that you survived the last five years. So now you're, you're going to be the manager of this boat and that it was disastrous. And, you know, we, sometimes we can't get out of our own way, but you know, there's a lot of tools out there. Do you use any specific tools for hiring

Cooper (26:35):

For hiring? Um, when it comes to hiring salespeople, the first place I'm always going to go relationship-based so I won't even go to LinkedIn. I won't go to indeed because sales sales is a really popular profession. A lot of people do it. And to be honest with you, a lot of the, a lot of the processes and the approaches are really simple. Like my, I always say my revolutionary advice is that no advice is revolutionary. Like sales has been, sales has been sales for the longest time. Like we, we don't need to try to rewrite it. I mean, there are, there are differences now, obviously between now and 30 years ago, but at the end of the day, it's still the same. And so I like to connect with people that I know to see if they know of anybody who is like, Hey, like let's cut through the resume stuff.

Cooper (27:27):

Let's cut through their education. Are they going to be an effective and ethical salesperson? Yeah. I mean, that's the approach that I'll take. And then, and then secondly, I'm going to go to, to LinkedIn. I'm probably not to be honest for sales, I'm probably not going to do indeed or any of those more traditional job boards because, um, you know, on LinkedIn you might be able to identify kind of how they communicate by their interactions on LinkedIn. Um, and that tells me much more about what I need to know, opposed to what their resume looks like. I mean, to be honest, a resume means very little to me at this point. Um, yeah, it's just, it's a different, it's, it's a little bit different than, than, than looking at, um, you know, have people check the boxes of what's supposed to be good on a resume.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (28:17):

Exactly. Yeah. And, uh, a lot of times people can, uh, make a resume look, uh, they can make it look like whatever you want it to look like too. So, you know, and I think that another thing about hiring and, you know, and I think we have to approach that, like we do, um, Mo like we do sell in our product, we have to market for talent. We, can't just, uh, I'm not a big fan, you know, to me, recruiting is not putting up an indeed post. I think that we have to have that personal knowledge and relationship and, you know, we have to have, I kind of think of it as we have to have people on the bench that are either calling us w you know, wanting to know that we got an opening yet, or who we've identified that, you know, the next opening I have, because of things, like you said, how we see them interact in public, or at other functions, if they're in the same industry or, you know, what they post on LinkedIn, a lot of different things like that, that we need to take into account.

Cooper (29:18):

Yeah. And sometimes it's helpful to join networks that are related to your profession. So for example, uh, I joined, uh, a, uh, sales leadership network called revenue collective, and there's about 4,000 members across the globe. And so automatically any, you know, the next time I'm hiring for a salesperson that that's the network that I'm going to trust, right. Is I'm going to say, Hey, either, either I'm going to hire somebody who's actually in the network or talk to, uh, a leader in that network about, Hey, here's what I'm looking for. Do you know of anybody? I mean, so that's another way to, to kind of cut through the noise. Right.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (29:54):

Right. Exactly. So, um, what about managing, do you, uh, first off, I assume that you have, uh, managers or a sales force under you, but, uh, you know, what about managing in this environment that we're in, where people are working from home? You know, we're not all in the same office anymore where you can stand up and look out the glass wall and see, you know, who's sleeping and who's dialing in, you know, what's going on. Uh, so how are you doing any, what are you doing to, I guess, man, is that process?

Cooper (30:34):

I think it's wonderful. Honestly, I think it led to a lot of it led a lot of companies know that we don't need to be in the office for people to be productive. And regardless of whether you're in the office or you're working from home, the numbers tell us everything. So again, you know, not being, you're not being cold call obsessed or setting appointments obsessed, but at the end of the month or quarter or whatever your, your quad looks like if the, if the numbers are there, I, I do not care where you work at. I, that's not, you know, as long as you and I can maintain a relationship, um, you know, via zoom and, you know, consequently vacation over Slack. And then, you know, we can safely get together every once in a while as a team or individual meetings. Um, you know, that that's been the general approach.

Cooper (31:20):

Um, you know, we, we've got, uh, we've got a pretty small squad of six. Um, but you know, we got together a week and a half ago at our new office. Um, and we were able to, you know, stay six feet and, and go through our 20, 21 go to market strategy. Um, and so, but, but really, I mean, ultimately to me, it's, it's great for people who have always felt like we have to have the salespeople in the office, you know, to, to, to manage them. The only, I would say that there is a potential downside, and it depends on the type of salesperson you are. And then also probably depends on inherently on, uh, what type of product you're selling and just that, that industry, because there is something to be said for the positive energy and momentum that you can get from being in a bullpen of salespeople. I mean, that is something that, that I know I miss since I'm at the time, and I know a lot of salespeople do. Um, but you know, you can, you can try to cultivate that in other ways on, on virtual meetings and virtual contests and things like that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (32:28):

Yeah. And I'm kind of the opposite, I think, uh, you know, not being in once I got out, because I, there was a time, like I had to put a chair in front of the door of my office, just because from eight to five, it was like, uh, you know, just a steady stream of people coming in. Then I could get my work done after six or seven o'clock at night after everybody went home. So, you know, I like, uh, you know, not having the commute and then also, uh, I don't know, just not having the distractions sometimes. Maybe I'm just, uh, I'm like a squirrel, you know, some bright, shiny object distracts me. So, uh, you know, being at home, I tend to be much, much more focused.

Cooper (33:07):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the time back in the commute is nice. Uh, I mean, if you can get really granular on time, back on the commute, less wear and tear on the car, uh, you know, less gas money. I mean, there are definitely some benefits to that, for sure. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (33:21):

And I think one drawback is if, uh, you know, if it's something that you're selling where you need to be in front of customers, I think that's made it a little more difficult. And I personally, that's what I like to be out, you know, and, uh, you know, the phones are okay, but I'd much rather be in front of people I seem to, you know, kind of do better there. So that, that has definitely, would definitely be a drawback depending on what you're selling.

Cooper (33:48):

Yeah. I mean, there's, there's no doubt that it's easier to build relationships with high value clients when you get to sit down with them and shake their hand. Especially if you're, we talked about this a little bit, just the difference between a transactional maybe, you know, low investment sale versus something that's going to be, you know, six figures, million, $2 million. I mean, the transactional sale that that's something that's still going to be able to be cultivated because there's no that client isn't trusting you with 1,000,005. Yeah. But those more solution-focused sales where you might be, um, try. And if it's a new relationship, you're trying to establish with somebody that you can't meet and you eventually want to sell them on a $1.5 million system implementation over the course of 18 months. That's going to be, that's going to be a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Definitely. Well, Cooper,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (34:40):

I appreciate you taking time out of your day. It's been an awesome conversation. Uh, so what is a tool that you use in your daily life? Either a professional personal, it could be a habit or just, uh, you know, something that you do every day that you feel contributes to your success that you just don't think you could do without.

Cooper (35:02):

I will give a two, I'll give two, if I, if I can. Okay. Um, so one is not related to technology. One is just something that I do, um, in the morning. Uh, so I've got, I've got this little notebook here and it's got, um, it's got my kind of core virtue of the core values, my purpose and my success. So kind of have that defined. So I like to review that. And then, um, I've got, you know, my monthly goals. So this is like December and they're broken down in terms of professional personal and okay. Um, so I like to look at that every day so that that's not some technology based, but I feel like it kinda just keeps me focused. Exactly. And then the one that's technology technology-based is a seamless.ai. Uh, it's a, it's an artificial artificial intelligence tool that can gather contact intelligence, like nothing I've ever seen.

Cooper (35:59):

So, and with a lot of accuracy. So, um, I mean, you can, you can get, you can find out the phone number, um, as creepy as it may sound the, the, the home, the work, the cell email, um, uh, that it'll give you all their social media pages. It'll give you the size of their company, uh, uh, Crunchbase news, New York stock exchange. I mean, it's just a full thing of contact intelligence and you get it in a matter of seconds. So it plugs into LinkedIn. Um, and so it would just add like, uh, next to each person's profile, it has a little plugin that says fine. You click on find, and it just scattered across the internet and gathers everything in can. And it's insane. I mean, it's, it, it saves me hours and hours and hours at a time. Yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (36:48):

I'll definitely check that one out. That sounds interesting. All right. So, uh, tell people, you know, who is your client? What can you do for them? And of course, how they could reach out and get ahold of you.

Cooper (37:01):

Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate that. So our, our ideal client is a startup or a small business with around or less than a hundred employees that has, uh, in-house technical leadership. So a CTO or a leader of engineering. And that way they understand kind of how to lead developers, um, to, you know, through a complex developer on the project. So that that's really what we look for. And so are we really, what we do is we help those companies build development teams quickly and affordably. So as I mentioned, we've got 200 engineers. Each of them have at least five years of experience and they're permanent employees, the full-scale background check times to actually, um, they, they get salary, PTO benefits, insurance, all of that stuff. So they're not, w we're not waiting on clients and say, Hey, I need a developer. And then we can go try to find some people we don't know. We've got people on the bench all the time, uh, that we're, we're ready to go. And they, they just come with a flat monthly fee for, and it's a, full-time the full-time resource for a flat monthly fee. They sit in Subu city, Philippines. So there's significant cost savings. Uh, but there's not really a difference in the quality of development. If you look at that, you know, versus versus a developer in the U S so that's the, that's the rundown with FullScale.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (38:19):

Okay. And how could they reach out and get ahold of you?

Cooper (38:24):

Uh, they can come to our website and there, you can book a call with me directly on our website, or you can reach out to me, uh, [email protected].

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Want To Take Your Sales To The Next Level? Listen To These Awesome Sales Techniques (38:32):

Okay. Awesome. Well, Cooper, thanks again. I appreciate it. And I appreciate everybody listening. This again, has been another episode of the business of business podcast. You can find us www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com. Of course, we're on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube, and also all the major, uh, um, podcast, plat forms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, Spotify. And if we're not on one that you use regularly, reach out, let me know, and I'll be glad to had for you until next time, take care of each other.

www.fullscale.io

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

 

Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business with Josh Kim

The Small Business Administration (SBA) main loan program is the SBA 7(A) program. According to their website "The 7(a) loan program is the SBA's primary program for providing financial assistance to small businesses. The terms and conditions, like the guaranty percentage and loan amount, may vary by the type of loan."

About Josh:

Starting from nothing, Joshua Kim had a desire to purchase a small business, even at a young age. He discovered the world of SBA financing and after much trial and error, was able to finance his first business purchase with an SBA loan of $1.2M at 19 without family money, connections or an ‘insider’ at the bank approving the loan.  Subsequently, he was able to get 2 more loans totaling another $1.3M+ to purchase 2 more businesses.  He realized that many business owners either never apply for SBA financing because they hear commonly perpetuated myths, or just have bad experiences with unsuitable SBA lenders and started his latest business, 7a Accelerator, where he and his team help educate, consult with and assist small business owners in securing SBA financing.  By cracking the credit matrix and demystifying the process, they save business owners time and money by making sure they get paired with the right bank for their business.

www.7accelerator.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. This is your host, Roy, of course we are the podcast that brings a wide variety of guests to the table to talk about a bunch of diverse topics to help our business businesses out there do better. Maybe there's something that, uh, some product or service you weren't aware of, or maybe even you're having a little trouble and looking for somewhere to turn. Hopefully we can help you answer the question then, uh, today, uh, we're lucky we have, uh, a gentleman that stopped by to talk to us, Josh Kim. He is with seven, eight accelerator. And, uh, what I'll let Josh explain it a little bit more, but basically, uh, what they, he deals with is helping people get SBA loans through their seven, eight program. So without saying much more Josh, welcome to the show.

Josh (00:55):

Yeah. Thanks Roy. For having me on, um, you know, it's, it's, it's great to be on and I'm really glad I'm here to share some information. You know, a lot of business owners, they they're so busy running their business, just trying to, trying to keep busy with every thing that's flooding them. You know, they're, they're not necessarily here and all the incentives are out there with the SBA and all these different business loans. And it's kind of why I started seven accelerator because I've got a, I've got a good breadth of knowledge in the space. And I just don't really think that people don't pursue what they don't know about. And so, you know, the more people have been educated about what incentives the government has in place for small business owners outside and above, you know, the ideal, the PPP, the other disaster relief stuff. Um, you know, the, the more businesses we can help, the better it is for everyone. Right?

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (01:39):

Exactly. Yeah. And that was what caught my eye. Uh, you know, when we first started talking is the, uh, number one, you've got an interesting background. I'm going to ask you to talk about, but also, uh, you know, being able to look for funds, a lot of places, we feel like we're coming out of this pandemic and businesses, uh, you know, I'm based in Texas. And so, you know, we are going to open up next week. And, uh, so anyway, there's some businesses going to be looking to see how they can get back on their feet, maybe grow a little bit, uh, you know, there may be even some entrepreneurs that have decided to not go back to work that maybe they want to buy a small business. So I think it's a very timely topic, but if you don't mind, before we get too deep into the, uh, the SBA, tell us a little bit about your story.

Josh (02:25):

Yeah, so I, I've got a pretty interesting background with dealing with SBA loans. I actually purchased the business, my first business at 19 with an SBA loan. And, um, you know, I was really just frustrated with the lack of resources and information that were out there around how you go about getting an SBA loan either for, you know, not even necessarily for a business purchase, but just for business in general, you know, there's 3,500 plus lenders that work with the SBA, uh, you know, primarily banks. There's a couple of, there's a handful of non-bank lenders that do you know, the seven, eight and five before loans too. But, um, I was just really at how hard it was to just navigate, because it seemed like me every bank you talk to, they gave you a different answer. I just dealt with this situation today. I mean, I, I actually, you know, I had a situation where I was wrong.

Josh (03:10):

I just had to double check with the SBA, but a banker who's been doing SBA loans for 10 years. You've need, you know, bad information about a client we were working with. Wow. Um, and so unfortunately, you know, that's what happens with a lot of business owners. They get a bad piece of information from a banker who, you know, they had better information or whatever the case might be. They throw up their hands and never want to pursue it again. So, you know, I knew for a fact that I was able to, you know, go buy a business with the seven, eight loan, but I really had to go talk to a lot of lenders before I figured out the ones that really understood, you know, how the program works. Cause you could go out there and you can call all 3,500 lenders, but the number of good lenders out there is probably less than a hundred.

Josh (03:48):

Right. And so, um, you know, that's, that's kind of what struck me as really frustrating. So anyway, ran those businesses for a bit, you know, recent sold some off on and more focused on this full-time because I just realized that, you know, this is, this is my skillset, it's my wheelhouse. And you know, me being involved with the, with the business owner for only a couple hours, I can say the months of time and going through this process by right. Uh, you know, approaching the right lenders to the beginning of it. So, you know, back to more of my story, you know, like I said, I, I bought a business, I actually bought three businesses with SBA loans before I turned 21. And you know, what I found out was that every single bank out there has kind of a different David different criteria, different little credit marks.

Josh (04:27):

And so, you know, it's not like going for an FHA mortgage where every lender you go to, they're going to have the same strict, exact guidelines, every bank, even though it's the same 17, same five Oh four programs, you know, they're going to have a little bit different approach in how they underrated things and how they approach things. So that the screws, a lot of people over because they, you know, like, like I said, they get better information from one place and just take it to heart and then just never try it. So, but, but yeah,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (04:52):

Yeah. And these, uh, you know, that's the one thing it's a good and a bad about dealing with the government is they've got some good programs. That's usually just a lot of red tape wrapped around it. And if these lenders don't have somebody that's dedicated to that, full-time, then that produces that bad information and kinda sours people's, uh, uh, you know, from pursuing it more further or again, but also, you know, this is actually a pretty good deal for the bank. So you think that they would take a little more interest, but let's talk about for, for a lender. What are some of the, um, what are some of the good points about why you would want to go with SBA versus maybe going to a traditional lender?

Josh (05:35):

Yeah. So I guess from the perspective of the lender, the reason lenders really like these SBA loans is that it minimizes their risk. The way that the SBA works is, you know, they're, they're guaranteeing a significant portion of the loan. So normally in normal times it's actually 75%. So if you go get a loan of a million dollars to, um, you know, to, to, to your business, the SBA is guaranteeing hundred 50 grand right now. And so October, and I, I guess we can talk to some of the specifics on this later. One of the unique things that they have right now is actually guaranteed percentages 90. So if a bank makes a loan for a million, they're actually, they're only really risking a hundred grand. Okay. And so for situations where there's a collateral shortfall for a smaller business, which is almost always the case, right.

Josh (06:17):

Um, it's, it's a great option for the bank because they can look at it and say, okay, well, you know, the cashflow is here to cover the monthly payment on the loan, but we don't have the collateral to, you know, to fully cover, you know, the, the unsecured portion. And so for them to look at the SBA is a great option because it's okay, well, we can minimize our risk, you know, with, with these guarantees, um, you know, a fun fact is the SBA as, as a government division, you know, the way they work is they just charge a fee on every loan. Then, you know, between three and 4%, they charged alone of that to, to every new loan. Those are also getting to mainframe now, but, you know, they just accrue all this phase and they use the pay off the bad loans.

Josh (06:55):

So it's actually a very, you know, for the banks who understand SBA and they, they do it well, it's a very profitable division for the bank. So the motivations for the bank go, it reduces their risk and allows them to, um, you know, help businesses grow. Because if that business grows that guy, the guy who owns the business, you know, he goes from making two, 300 K a year go, you know, 1 million, 2 million, $3 million a year. You know, he's going to be keeping all his money probably at that bank. So it's a great way for them to, um, you know, advance capital to business owners needed to grow so that person can, you know, build up more money with the institution by the banking products, but it also has minimal risk for them because it's predominantly guaranteed by the government. Right. Um, that's a great option, you know, on the flip side for borrowers, because a lot of times they, you know, if you want to go buy a business or you want to, uh, you know, get extra capital for your business, I mean, you know, most situations it's not going to be fully secured.

Josh (07:43):

And so, you know, the terms on, on debt elsewhere, um, you know, if you go to some of those lenders online, you know, they're there sharks, you know, what, 1820 4% daily paybacks, you know, uh, hidden fees that can amount to tens of thousands of dollars on a, on a relatively small loan. Um, and the reason, you know, obviously the reason SBA loans are such low interest rates is because they're government guaranteed. You know, right now the maximum you'll pay is about 6%. Wow. So, you know, the prospect of getting over a million dollars in secured for under 6%, it's, you know, you can't beat it. So other than kind of what the motivations are, I guess, for the lenders and the borrowers, it's a, it's a great option for, for all parts.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (08:19):

Yeah. And I guess, as you mentioned with this, um, with online commerce and everything else that's going on, it's also, I think you can, as the borrower, you can probably rest a little easier with the SBA behind this, that you're not going to find yourself in a, in a bad situation once you sign the papers, you know, there's a lot more trust there as well. Yeah,

Josh (08:43):

No, no. Yeah. That's, that's great.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (08:46):

Yep. So, um, you mentioned a couple things, you mentioned, uh, buying a business and you mentioned, you know, some work in capital, what are the, um, you know, what are some things that the, the seven eight program will cover? If you are a, uh, you know, business person or want to buy business, what, what can, what can you do with the money that they loan you?

Josh (09:07):

Yeah. So yeah, that, that's actually one of the biggest questions that I hear from people is that like, you know, what can I do with it? I heard you can only buy real estate or do real estate improvements with it. Um, you know, for the seven, eight term loans. And, you know, I, I'd kind of lump them into two types of loans. You've got five Oh four loans. Those are just for real estate. So real estate purchases, real estate ground-up construction, renovation, you know, tenant improvement, fixed improvements, all that, the seven, eight loans. Those are the more general ones. You can use that to buy a business. You can use it to buy out a partner. You can use it for general working capital. You can refinance debt. Um, you know, you can obviously use it to buy real estate as well. Uh, the rates and five Oh four on seven eight are usually a little bit higher than five Oh four, but there are certain benefits and certain circumstances where seven eight that one's a little more expensive is preferable to for five Oh four.

Josh (09:52):

Um, but you know, I, I tell people like it, as long as you have a legitimate business need for extra capital to grow, whether it's to buy, you know, buy equipment, like I'm working with a guy right now, he's got a software company and the software he deals with is, uh, managing it. He sells a software to companies who need to manage remote employees. So with COVID everything, the demand for their stuff has gone through the roof. It needs to buy a few million dollars worth of servers to actually accompany the, you know, the increased demand and, you know, bandwidth on their infrastructure. They don't have enough bandwidth on their servers to keep up. So he's basically just gonna go and take all this SBA money and just go buy more servers. Um, I've also seen situations where partnering buyouts business acquisitions. There's a lot of different things you can do with it, but you know what?

Josh (10:32):

I generally tell people, I said, you know, as long as you're not going to take money and buy a boat for yourself to go, uh, you know, vacation with it, it's, it's probably, you know, concerted and eligible use, you know, obviously you read the fine print brand, make sure, uh, make sure it works. But yeah, I mean, it, it's a great option for just, you know, I got off a call with a guy earlier, we're going to be working with about, uh, two to 300 e-commerce businesses, but are all doing about a hundred thousand dollars a month or more in sales, you know, that they're trying to grow their credit lines. And, uh, you know, a lot, a lot of business owners, they, you know, they just try to bootstrap their business growth with credit cards and it's like, it's great. But after a certain point, American express is limited 50, a hundred thousand dollars.

Josh (11:05):

It's only gonna take you so far. Um, you know, and I, you know, it doesn't matter what your business is when you're a contractor, whether you've got an e-commerce business, you know, a doctor, a lawyer, like, you know, you need outside capital. And so that's really, what's great about these SBA loans. And, and it's not, I will tell people if you need capital in, you know, in a week, it's not the fastest option in the world, but it's, it's, it's by far objectively the best long-term permanent countable solution for small business. Right. Cheapest rates, best terms. But yeah, I mean, you can pretty much do anything with it.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (11:34):

Yeah. And here again, that's another, uh, another, uh, good point to reach out to an expert like yourself before, you know, you Wade off into this and get too far down the road and make sure that, you know, this is something, uh, number one, that they'll, you can use the funds that they give you for what you need to, and, uh, you know, get some advice up on the front end before. Cause I know, uh, anytime you deal with the government, there's going to be a lot of paperwork that goes along with that. Uh, well, I

Josh (12:00):

I'll jump in there. It's actually, that's, that's probably one that's one of the other big misconceptions about SBA loans is that require a ton of paperwork. Um, you know, they, if you go for a regular seven, eight loan, there's actually two forms that are SBA specific. You gotta fill out. One of them is a personal financial statement. So whether you were applying for a mortgage with the government guarantee or not, you're going to have to fill out a personal financial statement. They just like being on the SBS form. And then the other form they have is, is what they call, um, it's just a borrower information form. So just basic information about yourself, like, you know, your ethnicity, your nationality, all that, no jobs, the loan will support. And that's how the SBA would think like they gauge their success is they, you know, they take all that data.

Josh (12:39):

Like how many lungs were made to this ethnicity, how many jobs are saved and just, it's basically data mine VSPs we can keep track of, you know, how much of an impact they're having in helping it's important jobs. Okay. So, but you know, I, I tell people it's one of the biggest misconceptions too. If you have a full loan package ready to go, you know, you've got all three years of your business and personal financials together, you've got your budget, you've got your two, three page business plan, narrative one, you know what? You need the money for it a little bit about business. You can get an approval within two weeks. And if you have all your ducks in a row, you can close in three to four weeks. Usually what takes a lot of time is, you know, again, I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but working with the wrong bank, like you said earlier, the bank said it's not their specialty.

Josh (13:20):

So they've got a bunch of, you know, they've got a bunch of knuckleheads working on it, who, you know, they're also trying to say credit cards and traditional mortgage. That's not their core expertise. Right. So, you know, you're going to be kind of stumbling around in the dark and, uh, you know, the other issue, it's usually, uh, a lot of times it closing delays, a lot of times fall in the borrower. They don't have their, they can't find their, their LLC formation documents. They can't find a tax return. They can't find a copy of their lease or an insurance document. So as long as you don't want your stuff generally available, and that's kind of where working with someone like NIS is helpful for a business owner, I kind of tell them all up front, like, here's everything you need to be working on now, so that it's not holding you up later. If you have all your ducks in a row, I've seen loans closing less days from application to approval, but it's, it's usually, it's usually, it's usually a combination of, you know, either a lender who's not on the ball or, you know, a borrower who doesn't have all their stuff together. Yeah. But yeah, it, it, it really doesn't take as much paperwork as you like.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (14:14):

Oh yeah. Okay. No, that's awesome. Cause that was actually, I was fixing lead into the, uh, you know, what are some of the other misconceptions about the SBA loans, but I think you covered it unless you had any more points you wanted to make there.

Josh (14:27):

I, you know, I, I think some other misconceptions, you know, a lot of people think, you know, my business isn't eligible. I'm not, you know, I either I'm too big or too small, you know, the size thresholds for, for SBA. I mean, if, if you need to borrow anywhere between 25 grand and 5 million, you know, you can, you can take advantage of SB. I have a situation friend of mine, he's actually getting more than that. He's actually getting 5 million from an SBA credit facility and 3 million of a financing from the same bank together. So, you know, he didn't actually think, you know, before I very, I guess before, you know, it kind of came to it. He didn't think that SBA financing was going to be suitable or his business and the growth and kind of what they needed, but, you know, he found out, well, Hey, this is, this is actually an option.

Josh (15:08):

And he'd been running his business for 20 years. Unfortunately he knows a lot of situations like that. People just don't realize like it's a suitable thing. Um, you know, another big misconception I think is that, you know, you need to have a ton of collateral. It actually says explicitly into the SBAs SOP for the seven, eight program, a lender cannot decline a borrower's request for a loan solely based on inadequacy of collaborative. And so obviously I got $1.2 million at 19 years old with 20 grand in my name. Um, because the business that we were purchasing was a good underlying asset, right. They didn't, they weren't looking at how much equity I had my house and this and that. And you know, again, a lot of that comes back to the bank. If you go to Wells Fargo, they're going to tell you, you need X amount of collateral coverage on this lump.

Josh (15:50):

That's not the SBA policy. That's just Wells Fargo policy. Okay. So you know that unfortunately, lenders to disservice to a lot of borrowers by reinforcing some of those myths and misconceptions, because it's they tell them, Oh, this is SBS policy. And most borrowers, they're not going to go and take the time to read through 300 pages of an SBA SOP. Like, so, um, but yeah, I mean, that's another big misconception. You need a lot of collateral or cash to go get an SBA loan. Um, you know, really I'd say that those are the two biggest ones that need a lot of cash collateral to get one. And it takes a long, long time and it takes a lot of paperwork. And in both of those are not, they're not true if you work with the wrong banks, obviously all the misconceptions become true. But if you work with owners, really know what they're doing, a lot of those problems.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (16:31):

Okay. Are there some, uh, are there some instant red flags that if somebody, you know, was out shopping for the SBA lender, are there things that can be picked up on, in a phone, quick phone call that lets you know, that you're not at the right place?

Josh (16:49):

Yeah, I would say so there are a couple of things that are hard stops that, that make it really difficult to get SBA financing. Um, so actually I'm actually kind of dealing with the situation right now. So, uh, I'm dealing with a bar where she was actually a co-signer for somebody else's student loan. Um, and so we're having to navigate it. Luckily it's not a big deal. You know, her business, she's making about 300 grand a year off of it. And it was an old student loan that was supposed to get it. She was supposed to be absolved of liability, but through a couple of things, but long story short five, six years ago, default did charged off there's like a $9,000 liability out there. And because it was a federally guaranteed student loan, if you've ever defaulted on or had a loss on a prior, you know, federally guaranteed finance instrument of any kind business loan, personal loan, you know, FHA mortgage, student loan, whatever you're going to have to get that current before your SBA financing goes to.

Josh (17:39):

So we already told them dang about like, Hey, this is kind of what happened. So they're actually having to run a check to see if it still shows up on her record or if she was actually taken off of it before, you know, when new default or, or, or charged off. But, um, in her case it's easy because she can come up with the $9,000 just to pay it off that wishes, you know, she's clear, free and clear, right. Um, also tell people, you know, like if you've got a, if your business is, is, is a technology-based startup that has a burn rate, you don't have a clear path to being cashflow positive. As feelings are really not going to be a suitable mechanism for, you know, that's kinda more where the venture capital one comes in, you know, it's, it's, it's innovating and it's, it's betting on a new product in the market adoption for that, as feelings are really meant for, you know, fundamentally some businesses that have a product or service that have already been proven and you know, our, our cash deposit now not to say they obviously they do startups, but it has to be a startup where there's a very clear path to within the next three to six months, we're going to get this thing open.

Josh (18:36):

We're going to be cashflow positive. SBA is great for franchise startups. If you count Prince to start a franchise, SB financing is a great way to do that. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's, you know, if your business is fundamentally never cashflow positive or has not gotten there yet, you know, you're going to want to wait until you've had some positive cashflow point and then take SBA financing. Um, and then, you know, obviously credit is, is, is, is usually a big thing. I mean, they don't have a huge requirement. As long as your credit is above six 50, you should do most lenders. Okay. But if you do have credit issues, it doesn't necessarily preclude you from getting an SBA loan. It's just something you're gonna have to go engage a credit expert, I'll prepare your credit, you know, for, you know, call it 30 to 90 days before you go get the loan.

Josh (19:16):

Cause they, they do, they do a hard credit pull and a lot of times, as much as they like to make the loan to you, there are hard lines in the sand that are SBA policy on, on minimum credit score. So, but, but yeah, I mean, I'd say as long as you have a cashflow positive business, you've got decent credit and you know, you don't have any outstanding liabilities to the government, um, student loan or FHA mortgage or other business loans. It should be fine. Um, you know, most, most people, most people would, would be able to qualify and it's, and it's, it's kind of interesting. I'll, I'll tell you the reason that I'm talking to guys like you and, you know, trying to talk a lot about a lot of audiences is I think that really only maybe five to 10% of business owners in the country really know, you know, enough about SB to really take advantage of it.

Josh (19:56):

You've got, you've got a large portion of them. You know, they hear one bad thing from a friend or a banker or somebody about, Oh, they had a bad experience with an SBA loan cements that in their head, they never try it. Right. And so, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's one of those things that, you know, a lot of people, they never try. You know, we're sitting here talking about what are the barriers I think the biggest barrier to, to also add is people never, ever pick up the phone. They never, they never try it. They don't, they don't, you know, they don't think it's suitable for them. And so they never, they never applied. Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, most, most businesses would apply as long as you're cashflow positive and you've got these credit, you can get SBA financing.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (20:29):

What about capsule in the program? Do they, uh, is it pretty much open they'll take anybody that comes through or do they have like X number of dollars that we lend that they lend per year and then cut it off?

Josh (20:42):

Yeah. So they've, to my understanding, they've never had issues with like going the allocated dollars federally, um, you know, basically the funding that the government puts in place for the seven eight program. Well, I guess first of all, the seven, eight and five Oh four program as a whole, like they're designed to actually be a breakeven, right? Cause they're charging guaranteed fees that goes into a pool of DSP and the users to pay a losses now. So in most years, obviously 2020 was a big exception for a lot of reasons, but most of the, actually the SBA opposite, um, they operate at a budget surplus. They actually make money, which is kind of crazy. It's a government agency that makes money, you know, between then in the patent office, you know, maybe one or two other things that the only divisions of government to actually make money.

Josh (21:22):

Um, but yeah, you know, there's, there's very rarely an issue with them doing that. I will say there are borrower camps. So the way it normally works is it's, you know, normally through 70, the max you can borrow is fine because the maximum amount of federally guaranteed dollars that, you know, they determined to be assigned to any one person it's 3.7, 5 million. So 75% of five minutes, is that okay, the way five or four of our loans work or a little bit different, uh, on a five Oh four loan, the government's really only guaranteeing about 40% of those because they're primarily for commercial real estate. Um, so I guess you just got to do the reverse math. It's like 9.4 million or something like that is how much you can borrow if you get funneled for. Okay. But, um, but yeah, I mean most, most people there'll be able to, you know, they, they shouldn't have any issues with him taking advantage, even if they do. I mean, there are a lot of lenders who will, I wouldn't say a lot, there's a handful of lenders will do 5 million on SBA and then they'll do 3 million conventional provider. The deal is strong enough and like the business, they understand it and all that.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (22:19):

Yep. So let's speak to some businesses that are out there today, uh, may maybe struggling. Well, you know, we could take a restaurant, you know, there's two situations, I guess number one is there's an owner it's kinda struggling. Things are opening up, looking better, you know, what is, uh, what is their situation going to be? Are they going to have a good chance, but then also let's take the, uh, you know, the guy that wants to buy a business that may be in trouble. Uh, you know, I'm sure not terrible trouble, but let's just say borderline, will they loan on situations like that?

Josh (22:56):

Yeah. Um, you know, they're obviously gonna want, you know, the, the real during normal times, the way that banks are looking at it is they're looking at three years, historical cash flow, just they can share everything covers. Yeah. Um, obviously coronavirus has been something that has just thrown everything for a loop. And so most of the lenders nowadays, they put like 95% of their underwriting weight on how the business with one for, you know, for 2020. Okay. So, um, you know, in any event that you've got a business owner, who's wanting to try to buy another business that didn't do well through 2020, they're really, really going to have to have a clear reason as to why them taking it over. Just kind of make sense. Um, you know, it could be something as simple as, Hey, the owner of this business was essential to the operations. They caught COVID themselves and have been incapacitated now and not able to do it. And, you know, the person wanting to buy the was one of the managers of the company. Like that's an easy situation, but I would generally say more of the situations that are more common to finance with SBA, a business that's looking to grow a business that needs capital to invest in, you know, real estate or assets that, you know, the it company that was looking to get in the servers, um,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (24:04):

Or even like a transfer of ownership from a parent to, to sit

Josh (24:09):

Buyout partner buyouts. Yeah. Partner by business acquisitions. You know, most of the deals that they're financing are not like turn around situations and problematic stuff. It's, it's other business needs capital to scale or someone, you know, needs capital to, to take over a business that you know, was doing okay. That's those are most the situations. Ah, I mean, obviously there's, there's real estate purchases, real estate renovations, the special projects. But, um, I would say like if you're, if you're looking at a business that, you know, went from a positive to a big negative in 2020, uh, you might be better off just negotiating something directly with the seller, just having seller finance it versus getting outside bank financing, because a lot, a lot of banks right now, even though that there's 90% government guarantees and all these other things, they still have to have a reasonable, you know, credit request in the loan file showing like, Hey, you know, the projected cashflow here is enough to cover, to cover the debt service. So, yeah.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (25:04):

Okay. So, uh, you talked about the, uh, that typically the, um, the, they covered about 75% and now that's up to 90. Are there other, some advantages or incentives that are happening right now versus in normal times?

Josh (25:22):

Yeah. So the three man incentives they have there right now, so obviously the 90% guarantee something is something that is going to be more of a bank facing benefit. And, you know, indirectly benefits the borrower because if the bank has a 90% guarantee, they're going to be more likely to approve a deal that at a 75% guarantee, they would not. I actually have heard that verbatim from some of the lenders I talked to, they straight up said, this is a deal we're only going to be looking at these kinds of deals because of the fact that we have a 90% guarantee, we did not have the 90% guarantee. Um, you know, if, if it was normal times, we didn't have, COVID a 75% guarantee would do, but there's still a lot of uncertainty on, you know, how long it's going to take to get the vaccine rolled out how long it's going to take for some of these States to fully reopen how long it's going to take for consumer behaviors with traveling.

Josh (26:10):

And, you know, whether it's interstate intrastate, or just general travel, how long that's going to change. So that's one of the big benefits. There's 90% guarantee on this. So the other two things are, and I think I touched on this earlier, but right now with the, with the STEMIs package, they passed in December. All they did is really extend the initial cares package. The initial cares package, um, did a lot of these things too, but the December students package added it or extended it, any new loan that is made gets six months of free payments. I'll qualify that as of today, as I speak it's three, because they're sure if the amount of money that they initially did it for six months and then the money that they had concerns with the budget was numerical neat. But the $1.9 trillion stimulus bill is any more money for the SB plots.

Josh (26:54):

It's why they expected anticipated that all the new lungs will go back to them. What gets six months, but new loans will be able to get six months of free payments, um, towards your loan up to $9,000 a month. So that's $54,000 up to have free payments that are subsidizing your loan. And they're also waiving the guarantee fee. And, you know, even though it's only 3.5 to 3.7, 5% give or take on a few million dollars that adds up, you know, 2 million bucks, that's, you know, that's, that's almost one 75, 80 grand. Yeah. So those, those are the two big benefits. And so I actually break down the math for people on, um, you know, on potential clients we're working for. But generally speaking it's about, it's actually about 10% of the total loan amount and you're saving between the subsidized payments and the waiver of all the guarantee fees.

Josh (27:38):

So if you have, if you have a loan of $500,000, if you're getting between the guarantee fee waiver and the free payments that they would be covering, you'd be saving $50,000, which is 10% of your lung. It's it's, it's, uh, it's pretty crazy. So when I tell people the government is actually paying you to borrow money, that's, that's crazy. That's not right. And then I show them the math. I said, no, they're actually paying you. You could technically take a loan and have the pay six months. And, you know, the balancing habit of the principal would be less than you started and all the things came from the government. Yeah. So obviously I don't think that's usually worthwhile for people to do. There's a lot of headache and pulling all your stuff together just to save a few grand, but, you know, technically you could do that. Yeah. So,

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (28:18):

Okay. Yeah. And so, uh, you know, we've talked about a lot of, um, um, a lot of things that make the, the SBA more, um, it looks like it's, it looks like a better option to go through. So what, or have we touched on all the, uh, con the comparison between all the financing options? Is there anything else you'd like to touch on that?

Josh (28:43):

Yeah, I, I I'd really say, I mean, you've got SBA seven 80 that encompasses the regular seven, eight loans, the SBA seven, a small loans, basically anything under it, really, anything under call it 350 K you also have the SBA express loans. Um, you know, SBA express loans are great too, for, for most people that can be structured as lines of credit. Uh, you've got the SBA five Oh four loans as a more real estate SBA does also have some other unique programs that, you know, they have cap lines, community advantage, international trade export wouldn't happen. All those ones are a lot less, you know, um, leveraged I think because, you know, the terms on those are, are basically the same for most of the SBA stuff. So, I mean, an SBA, the only difference between your international trade and a, you know, a regular seven, eight loan is, you know, the use of proceeds is a little bit more limited, but you're getting the same interest rate, you know, same guarantee fees, the same maximum loan amounts.

Josh (29:37):

So what most borrowers is, it's not too much of a difference. However, I will say, if you did compare it to what conventional financing options are out there, you know, uh, everything is going to look inferior next to SBA. And obviously the reason for that is, you know, no private lender is going to be able to compete with a 75 to 90% guaranteed from the federal government, right. On, on a business loan, you know, so, uh, you know, that's, that's what I would tell any business owner is, you know, you can go out there and, you know, there's probably other financing options, but you're going to, you're going to be paying 12 to 25% interest. You know, your loan term is going to be three to four years, not 10 years. And, uh, you know, you're going to get hit with all these fees and all these restrictions and covenants SBA, as long as you pay the loan, they don't have any commitments, just pay the loan and send them your tax returns at the end of the year. And that's all they care about. So, you know, it's, it's, it's really, you know, when it comes to apples to apples comparison over the financing options are out there. Nothing can compete with us today.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (30:31):

Yeah. Well, that's good. And I appreciate you coming on the show to educate people. I think that's a, you know, a lot of things we've talked about have probably just, uh, you know, kept people away, um, for probably a good deal. And so this will be a nice little wake up call for the listeners out there. Anybody that's wanting to either purchase a business or maybe get some, uh, capital for growth. Uh, this should be a great option. Uh, when I ask you, you know, a couple things in a minute, but before we get to that, um, so what is a tool that you use in your daily life? Like, uh, uh, it could be a tool. It could be a habit, a ritual, just something that you do every day that you feel like really, uh, uh, adds value.

Josh (31:18):

Could that include like a, uh, a browser extension that saves me a lot of time. Certainly. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I actually found this recent, um, recently I found an extension called motion. I'll send you a link on it, but, um, it, it allows me, it's basically kind of like a, uh, you know, like Facebook messenger. They've got that little circle, that'll, you know, hover on your, on your, um, why does they don't do it anymore, but you know what hover on your screen and you'd be able to pop it up there. Now, a motion is like that, but with my calendar, my contacts, you know, tab manager, they have a distraction blocker for, for what I'm trying to work on my, you know, on various stuff. But, you know, it allows me to pull my calendar, allows me through this little thing to quickly pull up what tabs I have open.

Josh (32:01):

Um, you know, that the distraction Blackboard blocker is pretty nice for when I really want to focus in on stuff. So I only found it recently, so I'm still getting settled in with it. Okay. But I would definitely think that it's, it's, it's something that's, you know, been able to save me, you know, save me enough time that we know where I felt fine paying a hundred and some bucks a year for, for the, for the subscription. Uh, you know, other tools I think I have, um, I have a great one called loom. Uh, loom is a great software that allows you to collaborate quickly with your team. It allows you to basically take quick videos of your screen with you narrating and talking. So like, if we have a tech problem with our website, or we're trying to figure out how to, you know, how to get a client, they're logging in, they're having issues with it, we can actually just record a quick thing.

Josh (32:44):

It'll clip it to the cloud and give me a link and I can take the link and drop it into Slack. And that's a much quicker way for me to show my team, like what I'm working on, what the problem is instead of having to type it out, narrate it, it's a quick video. So both are great tools. Like I've definitely been using them a lot longer than motion, uh, the Southern motion now, but, um, you know, both of them have saved me countless hours in, or they're working with my team managing my schedule. Um, just everything.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (33:07):

So, uh, loom, L O O M or L U M.

Josh (33:11):

Yeah. At loom L O m.com like fruity.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (33:14):

Okay. Oh, okay. Okay, great. All right. Well, yeah, check those tools out. We're always looking for, uh, you know, time-saving devices or things to make our life easier. So that's great. Um, so now I know who your client is, your client, somebody that wants to borrow money or looking at buying a business, uh, capital, but kind of give us a brief overview, you know, who do you work with? How can you help them? And then also just, you know, kind of in the midst of all that, why does it make sense to go through a consultant like yourself instead of just trying to do this on your own?

Josh (33:48):

Yeah, so I, I guess I'll, I'll characterize, you know, the ideal business owner of someone I would work with is ideally someone who needs between a hundred thousand and $5 million in assistance through SBA financing. You know, ideally they have a company that's netting them, you know, between a hundred thousand to $2 million a year. So there's more, um, and you know, they need help trying to find what the most efficient capital solution is for their business. Um, you know, and I can cover a broad range of things because I have clients we're working with, they need $200,000, so they can go buy, you know, right. Like they're a trucker and they're like, I'm leasing my truck right now. I'd rather just fly it. I would go from making what I'm making now to, you know, making an extra 60, 70 K a year. If I just owned the truck, I don't need that much money.

Josh (34:31):

I just need a hundred, you know, a hundred, 150 K to buy the truck out. You know? So we're with guys like that, those are super easy to finance because they're, you know, relatively straightforward loan requests. Um, and you know, the SBA has stuff in place for expedited approval and underwriting. You know, if you need a loan under $350,000, you can do it through an express or 70 small, and that can get closed and finance most three weeks from, from application to funding. So, you know, we, we do a lot of those, you know, smaller under three 50 care requests. Cause those are simple. And in a lot of those people, you know, they're, they're not finance experts, they're not experts in banking. And I guess that kind of gets to the other question is why does it make sense to work with a consultant?

Josh (35:07):

Well, I tell people there's theaters, there's 3,500 plus lenders out there that do SBA loans. Do you want to go call all of them yourself and figure out who's going to be the best for your project? Or, you know, do you want to work with somebody who's been dealing with it for five years? And, you know, instead of you taking three, four months of your time and talking through all these lenders, trying to figure out who's giving you good info, who's giving you bad info, just have me look at their request. And you know, I already know everyone out there. It's going to take me an hour of my time to go and set up a call, prescreen it, talk to them about what your financing request is, match it up the media term sheet. A few days, you get finance closed a couple of days later.

Josh (35:41):

Um, you know, the, the time saving for, for people is often a big thing. Yeah. The other thing too is by, by working with a consultant like me, when I refer a deal to a bank, they generally know that it's been shown at least one or two other banks. So they're not automatically going to come out and charge the highest interest rate they can. They're going to try to be competitive. And, you know, if I tell the bank like, Hey, listen, you know, the borrower is interest rate sensitive on this. You know, they know they're not just gonna slap on them. You know? Cause most of the time most people, they go, they go to the bank, whatever the first terms are from the first bank that gives him approval to go with it. They don't think about, well, Hey, maybe we should think about a fixed, you know, a fixed interest rate instead of a floating one, ma maybe we should try to go shooting a rate down half a percent of interest on a, you know, on a million dollars.

Josh (36:23):

It's still five grand a year, right? So, you know, all those are just little things that, you know, over the life of your loan, you can end up spending, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in extra costs just because he didn't negotiate correctly on the front end. So right. It's a two-fold thing, you know, I'm there, I'm going to help save you guys a lot of time as, as a prospective borrower, by making sure you're set up lenders that are actually going to finance your type of business and your size or ProQuest off the bat. Uh, but also generally speaking with lenders work with the junior media areas, such as myself who handles a high point with these kind of loans. Like they know that anytime I'm sending them a loan, someone else is looking at it. So they're not going to just quote you the highest rate out that they're going to give you a competitive price and you know, make sure you get the best deal that you possibly can.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (37:04):

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure they also understand, uh, it's less work for them. So they're, it's kinda sh you, you kind of streamline it for the bank. They're not having to, you know, continue to go back to the client for this and this. You, you can generally make sure everything is in order before you present that to them.

Josh (37:20):

Yeah. That's the other thing too. I do bring a lot of value to the lenders because if you ask any SBA banker, you know, they make great money for, for, for all the loans that, you know, if they do a lot of loans, then they have great money, but you know, 90% of their time is going back and forth on email chains with borrowers, Hey, where's this document? Did you send me this already? Oh, you sent me the unsigned copy. Send me the signed copy that you missed a signature here. It's like all this back and forth. And so, you know, when I tell them, I say, listen, you know, the banker's going to have a lot easier time dealing with you. You get this all done upfront, right. I give them the checklist of what they needed to fund. I let them go take a week, putting it all together, put it in a Google drive.

Josh (37:56):

I go through it, make sure it's 95% completed and mostly there. And then when we get set up with the banker, everything goes to one quarter. Yeah. So that's the only thing. The bankers like working with someone like me who is educating the buyer, know the borrower and helping them make sure they get everything together before going, because you know, you know, 90% of the time that bankers spend working on these deals, it's just, you know, chasing documents and documents going through email chains and following up with people. And it's, uh, not, not a very efficient process. I've got a longterm project that I'm working on software wise that I'm hoping will help automate a lot of that for a lot more borrowers than just outside the people I work with. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's a big headache documents, the team bankers.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (38:36):

Exactly. All right. Josh will tell people how they can reach out and get a hold of y'all there at seven a

Josh (38:44):

Yeah. So I'm sure we'll put a link down in the description below for the podcast. You can reach us at 7accelerator.com. Um, we're putting a lot more information up on the website, you know, other interviews, other blog posts that I'm doing and just talking about incentives and stuff. Um, you know, obviously as, as, as we get, you know, every case study, we can get, we're putting it up Thursday, kind of see the people we work with, the types of deals we're going to want to get done for our clients. Um, but yeah, 7accelerator.com. It's not, there's not two ways. It's just 7accelerator.com and then make it a bit easier, both fine. Um, I think if you type in 7accelerator next week redirects to our site, we got both domains, but you can find us there. Um, and we've got a ton of content resources on the site learn more, you know, you're interested in reaching out further about possibly, you know, having us consult for you to help you find the loan, um, that that's best suited for your business. You always book a call with, uh, with us, you know, let us know that he found us through, uh, Roy here and, you know, we'll definitely be able to hook you up, but, uh, but yeah, uh, w w you know, 7accelerator.com and we'll put, we'll put a link in the description for the podcast insurance. Yep.

Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Needing Capital to Kickstart 2021? See If The SBA 7A Program Is A Good Fit For Your Business (39:49):

Yeah, certainly. All right, Josh. Well, thanks a lot. Y'all reach out to Josh, uh, see if he can help y'all with your next a business loan there. That's going to do it for another episode of the business of business podcast. Uh, you know, you can find us on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. Also check us out on our website www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com also on all the major social media and a video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your business.

www.7accelerator.com

www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcast.com