The Cheat Code & Friends

In this episode, Stacey Lewis, founder and CEO of HR Interrupted, sits down for a brass-tacks conversation on how startups and high-growth businesses can navigate the murky waters of human resources (HR) and diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). As the pendulum swings, seemingly away from what has dominated the business landscape for the last half-decade, it’s more difficult than ever to simply “do the right thing” and even to know what that right thing is. Together the group discusses what really matters when attempting to build high-performing teams, the importance of employee voices, and fostering workplace relationships while also navigating what has become a landmine-riddled field around the concept of DEI.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction 

02:57 The Evolution of HR and DEI

05:59 The Impact of COVID-19 and Social Movements

08:59 Navigating Employee Expectations

11:50 The Relationship Between Employers and Employees

15:02 Understanding DEI and Its Challenges

17:55 Finding Balance in Workplace Dynamics

26:35 Core Values and Organizational Identity

29:11 The Evolution of DEI and Its Challenges

30:21 Understanding Equity vs. Equality in the Workplace

34:06 Navigating Relationships in Organizations

37:31 The Importance of Commitment in DEI Initiatives

40:20 Creating Safe Spaces for Authenticity

44:24 Building a Thoughtful Hiring Process

49:17 Trust and Relationship Dynamics in the Workplace

References in the Show:

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2025/02/pay-salary-decline-quit-job-market-raise-gartner.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=nch&ana=e_n_bizwomen_tease

https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/26/here-are-all-the-tech-companies-rolling-back-dei-or-still-committed-to-it-so-far/?guccounter=1 

https://www.axios.com/2024/11/27/walmart-dei-trump-lgbtq 

https://diginomica.com/dei-20-how-companies-are-navigating-diversity-and-inclusion-reset-politically-charged-environment 

Quote of the Show:

"I need to know that you got my back or at bare minimum, you at least acknowledged my pain. With all of this equity work and DEI scaling back, my heart is broken as an equity strategist because it's gotten so far off of the mark. It was never ever intended to isolate a demographic” - Stacey Lewis

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

The hosts welcome Scott Albro to their podcast for a discussion on venture capital trends and AI. They compare B2B vs. B2C AI adoption, emphasizing outcome-driven solutions. Together they explore AI’s impact on industries, labor markets, job roles, and startup founding teams. 

Chapters

04:59 The State of Venture Capital and AI Startups

10:01 B2B vs B2C in AI Adoption

15:00 Transformative Growth in AI Startups

18:48 Addressing Labor Market Challenges

22:32 The Evolution of Job Roles in Tech

23:43 Agent-to-Agent Communication and LLMs

28:00 Data Cleanliness as a Precursor to AI

30:58 The Hype Cycle of AI Technology

35:00 The Future of Venture Capital

39:13 The Importance of Founding Teams

39:54 Work Culture and Remote Work Dynamics

References in the Show:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/joefloyd_letthemeattech-activity-7294760958327930881-IAH9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAADoIpIBycGOZH95BvXnzuOv2UcnyeyhFDs 

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/scottalbro_seeing-some-vc-chatter-that-the-old-triple-activity-7296175283265511424-gAwM?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAADoIpIBycGOZH95BvXnzuOv2UcnyeyhFDs 

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/scottalbro_the-other-day-jason-m-lemkin-asked-for-activity-7285699611132911617-5ktv?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAADoIpIBycGOZH95BvXnzuOv2UcnyeyhFDs

Quote of the Show:

"The founding team is all that matters. Because the market is changing so fast, these founding teams need to be really smart, really adaptable, really resilient. ” - Scott Albro

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

From the GTM Cheat Code to ‘The Cheat Code and Friends,’ season 4 kicks off with the core crew only as Justin, Josh and Sean introduce this season's new format and cover some burning topics revealed by the start of the year - better known as 'Board meeting season.'

00:00 Introduction and Setup for New Season

(05:51) Board Meeting Dynamics

(09:03) Board Structure and CEO Support

(11:59) Effective Board Presentations

(15:03) Decision-Making in Board Meetings

(17:59) Go-To-Market Strategies and Challenges

(22:12) Navigating the Marketing and Sales Landscape

(26:10) The Power of Fundamentals in Sales

(34:10) Unlocking Partnerships for Growth

(36:29) Traits of Successful CEOs

References in the Show:
https://hbr.org/2025/01/how-the-best-boards-engage-with-management 
https://hbr.org/2025/02/research-how-boards-can-increase-ceo-accountability?ab=HP-hero-latest-text-1 
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jasonmlemkin_holy-crp-shopify-at-an-112-billion-run-activity-7296998848474791936-QMuO 

Quote of the Show:

"Are you going into a call thinking about what you need to learn from them to be successful? Or are you going in thinking, ‘What do I need to tell them so I'm successful?’ That mentality leads to night and day results.” - Justin Gray

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• Amazon Music
• YouTube

Join us for the Season 3 finale! Kyle Lacy dives into the pivotal role marketing plays in achieving goals across the business and how owning a number is key. From navigating top-down and bottom-up revenue goal setting to empowering founders in the process, Kyle unpacks strategies that keep marketing leaders agile and data-driven.

Plus, hear about Kyle’s latest venture, The Revenue Diaries, where he shares lessons on scaling software businesses and personal growth. If you’re ready to supercharge your marketing efforts, this episode is a must-listen!

Takeaways: 

1. Marketing Owns a Revenue Number: Marketing’s job isn’t just to deliver MQLs—it’s to take ownership of a revenue or pipeline number. That means driving alignment with sales and customer success, leading key conversations, and taking accountability for results. This shift from “supporting” to “owning” ensures marketing plays a leadership role in achieving shared business goals.
2. Build Revenue Plans from the Bottom Up: Don’t rely on top-down booking targets that lack a connection to reality. Instead, start with granular metrics like conversion rates and pipeline coverage. Bottom-up modeling allows for iterative adjustments and realistic goal-setting, especially for companies without much historical data.
3. Turn Call Recordings into Marketing Gold: Tools like Gong go beyond sales enablement—they’re essential for marketing insights too. From competitive analysis to campaign effectiveness, call recordings provide valuable data that can refine messaging, improve alignment, and enhance conversion strategies.
4. Master the Metrics That Matter: Marketing leaders must understand core business metrics like CAC, ARR, and NRR to align with company priorities. Build strong relationships with finance or the CEO, and ask smart questions about board-level goals. This business acumen is essential to driving informed strategies and delivering measurable impact.

Quote of the Show:

"How can you do everything you want to do from a brand, creative, enablement, product marketing perspective - anything you could think of? By actually owning a number instead of supporting it.” - Kyle Lacy

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylelacy/ 

Shoutouts:

Joe Chernov: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jchernov/ 

Anthony Kennada: https://www.linkedin.com/in/akennada/ 

Gainsight: https://www.gainsight.com/ 

Jellyfish: https://jellyfish.co/ 

Ways to Tune In:

●      Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 

●      Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 

●      Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 

●      YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this episode, Amanda Kahlow dives into how embracing change with love and leading with emotional intelligence can transform the way we work and connect. She explores the evolving role of AI in marketing, the power of resilience and positivity, and why building authentic relationships is more important than ever.

Takeaways: 

1. Embrace Change with Optimism: With rapid tech transformation, especially with AI reshaping industries, Amanda emphasizes the power of a positive mindset. Instead of fearing disruption, lean into innovation with optimism and confidence. Change isn’t a threat—it’s an opportunity to reimagine possibilities and deliver greater value for your customers.
2. Build Connections That Matter: Despite AI’s advancements, the human element remains irreplaceable. Amanda highlights the importance of emotional intelligence in building meaningful relationships—with your team, your customers, and your community. In sales and marketing, trust and connection drive success, and these values should be at the core of how we lead and grow.
3. Turn Challenges into Opportunities: Whether facing setbacks or receiving a “no,” Amanda’s advice is clear: reframe obstacles as chances to innovate. From industry-defining successes like Airbnb to everyday wins, perseverance and perspective are essential. Helping others and fostering collaboration can unlock new paths to success, both personally and professionally.

Quote of the Show:

"In the world of AI, where there is a lot of fear right now that AI will be taking, augmenting and in some cases, replacing jobs, we have a choice to say, yes, I'm going to embrace this and I'm going to lean into it or no, I'm going to be afraid of it and run away. My recommendation and my cheat code is lean into it with as much love as you possibly can. And yes, your existing functions and tasks may change and may go away. But at the end of the day, I believe it's going to make all of our lives better. And I have a healthy amount of love for it.” - Amanda Kahlow

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandakahlow/ 

Shoutouts:

1mind: https://www.1mind.com/ 

6sense: https://6sense.com/ 

Mike Maples Jr: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maples/ 

Airbnb: https://www.airbnb.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this episode, marketing leader, concert photographer, and author Jason Miller explores the foundational marketing pillars of brand, events, and community. Together, Jason and the hosts unpack what it takes to build a brand that resonates and drives trust, breaking down misconceptions about community building and the power of having a distinct, purpose-driven perspective. 

Listen into discussions on the shift from traditional demand gen to a new era where authenticity, trust, and relationships drive growth.

Takeaways: 

1. Focus on Core Marketing Pillars: Brand, Events, and Community: Building a strong brand, engaging in key events, and fostering community are the essential marketing pillars for B2B success. Demand gen should support these pillars, with brand-building taking center stage to establish trust and differentiate in competitive markets.
2. Start with Positioning and Messaging for Brand Impact: A brand’s power lies in its foundational positioning and messaging. Clear, cohesive messaging enables companies to convey their unique value effectively. Too often skipped, this essential groundwork ensures consistent and compelling narratives that protect brand integrity, especially in the era of AI automation.
3. Build Niche Brands with a Personal Connection: For startups, a niche focus allows for more personalized connections and targeted messaging that resonate deeply with specific audiences. Leaders and founders should embrace their roles as brand ambassadors, confidently sharing unique perspectives to create a distinctive voice—even if it means polarizing some audiences.
4. Invest in Small, Trusted Communities Over Broad Platforms: The value of intimate, trusted communities often surpasses that of large platforms. Smaller groups foster authentic connections, allowing members to ask questions and share insights without the noise. These close-knit environments often lead to more meaningful professional support and collaboration.
5. Network and Collaborate with Empathy: Peer connections are invaluable. Exchanging insights, challenges, and successes with other marketers fosters empathy and mutual support, creating a powerful feedback loop that keeps teams agile, motivated, and informed.

Quote of the Show:

"It's literally finding your tribe and bringing them into a place and giving them some sort of value. I think if you sell it as the point of, you can learn here, you can share here, it's a trusted space, I think people will respond.” - Jason Miller

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jsnmiller/ 

Shoutouts:

Jon Miller

Second Skin: Tales and Truths from the Mosh Pit of Life

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this episode, we sat down with David Meerman, limited partner and strategic advisor at Stage 2 Capital, to discuss the power of newsjacking and how it helps brands capture attention and drive leads.

Interview Takeaways: 

1. Timeliness and Relevance are Key: Newsjacking allows you to bring your expertise into breaking news moments, creating opportunities to reach your audience fast.
2. Be Ready to Act in Real-Time: Successful newsjacking hinges on pre-approvals. Establishing clear guidelines with PR, legal, and marketing teams ensures your organization is primed to respond with relevant content right when it counts.
3. Choose Your Moments: Not every trending story is a fit for your brand. Selectivity is essential.
4. Handle Sensitive Topics with Care: David cautions against newsjacking stories involving politics, death, or disasters unless your organization plays a direct, positive role in the situation.

Quote of the Show:

"As [a story] is breaking, that's when the media is looking for an expert to quote. That's when, if it's a product related kind of story, that's when people are looking to buy something. That's when you need to get your information out into the marketplace right then.” - David Meerman Scott

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmeermanscott/  

Shoutouts:

• Fanocracy
• The New Rules of Marketing & PR
• Marketing Lessons from the Grateful Dead
• Brian Halligan
• Marketing the Moon: The Selling of the Apollo Lunar Program

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this conversation, hosts Sean Kester and Justin Gray sit down with Eric Martin, senior vice president of marketing at Stack Overflow, to discuss the critical alignment between marketing and finance. Together they emphasize the importance of understanding metrics, communicating effectively with the board, and building a cohesive team that is aligned with the company's vision. Eric shares the importance of strategic business decisions, team dynamics, and the impact of unique marketing events. They discuss the challenges faced by marketing leaders and share effective budgeting strategies to drive success.

Takeaways: 

1. Marketing and Finance Alignment: Eric emphasizes the importance of strong alignment between marketing and finance. This alignment is critical for navigating economic challenges and ensuring that marketing efforts are directly tied to business goals. Marketing teams that work closely with finance can maintain stability and efficiency, even in turbulent times.
2. Simplicity in Metrics: Marketing teams should focus on basic, easy-to-understand business metrics, like customer acquisition cost, rather than overly complex attribution models. Sticking to straightforward financial metrics helps build credibility with finance and leadership teams.
3. Speaking the Language of the Board: One of the key points Eric discusses is the need for marketers to understand and speak the same language as their board and investors. This means aligning marketing strategies with the broader business objectives, articulating clear results, and focusing on what the board cares about—revenue, expenses, and business growth.
4. Zero-Based Budgeting Over "Use It or Lose It": Instead of scrambling to use a budget before it expires, the focus should be on aligning spending with performance metrics and business goals. Building trust with finance can enable more flexibility in budget discussions, avoiding the pitfalls of overspending for fear of losing next year’s allocation.

Quote of the Show:

"If you're thrashing on a business model or on campaigns that aren't working, a great reset is talking to a person from finance and understanding what their goals are, double checking what you are doing and making sure that everything you're doing is working toward one of those goals.” - Eric Martin

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericjmartin/ 

Shoutouts:

• Joe Chernov
• Kevin OMalley

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

Join hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray for a conversation with Pablo Gonzalez, the co-founder and CEO of Be The Stage. They discuss the importance of super consumers and engineering moments where prospects overhear super consumers talking about your brand. Pablo shares his insights on creating a point of view (POV), designing a content stream, and organizing in-person events to strengthen communities. Together they explore the importance of having a unique POV, the challenges organizations face in defining it, and the benefits of doing so. 

Takeaways: 

1. The Power of Super Consumers: Pablo explains the concept of "super consumers," derived from Eddie Yoon's work, referring to a small percentage of a company's client base (1-10%) that generates the majority of revenue (50-70%). These loyal customers are not only heavily invested in the product but also act as evangelists, offering invaluable insights and promoting the brand within their networks.
2. Community Building as a Business Development Tool: Creating a community around a brand where prospects can overhear super consumers discussing their positive experiences, is incredibly important. This community approach fosters authenticity, connection, and trust, making it a powerful tool for driving business without directly pitching.
3. Shifting Event Value Propositions: Both Pablo and Justin highlight how the value of events has evolved post-COVID. Traditional events focused on large crowds and curated content are no longer as effective. Now, people are drawn to smaller, more intimate gatherings centered around peer-to-peer collaboration and shared knowledge, making smaller, focused communities more valuable for business development than large-scale conferences.
4. The Importance of a Clear Point of View (POV): Companies must clearly articulate their differentiation and the urgency of their solution.Only solutions with a direct, immediate impact are considered for purchase. This applies to both companies in their go-to-market strategies and individuals in the hiring process—having a clear, hyper-relevant opinion is critical for standing out.
5. Tying Strategy to Measurable Metrics: A consistent theme is the importance of tying any strategy, whether in community building, partnerships, or sales, to a specific metric that can move the needle. Whether driving higher conversions or increasing revenue, organizations and individuals should focus on metrics that demonstrate real impact, both short- and long-term, to ensure their relevance and success.

Quote of the Show:

"I've never found anything to work better as a way to convince somebody to do business with you than engineering moments where your prospects are overhearing two of your super consumers talk about you without you in the room.” - Pablo Gonzalez

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablotheconnector/ 

Shoutouts:

• Play Bigger
• Superconsumers: A Simple, Speedy, and Sustainable Path to Superior Growth
• Clari
• Arcadia Leadership Experience

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

Tune in as hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray chat with Adam Needle, CEO and co-founder of  ANNUITAS, Inc., on the importance of the customer journey in go-to-market strategies. Adam emphasizes the need for organizations to be customer-centric not only in product delivery but also in their sales and marketing efforts. Adam introduces the concept of conversation tracks, which are designed to activate the customer journey and align all aspects of the organization towards engaging with the customer. Together they highlight the challenges organizations face in understanding their customers and conducting in-depth customer research to gain valuable insights. 

Listen now to learn more about the impact of post-sale demand and the need for live interactions to foster customer engagement.

Takeaways: 

1. Customer Journey as the Core Focus: Adam emphasized the importance of aligning an organization's go-to-market strategy with the customer journey. He noted that while companies often claim to be customer-centric, many focus only on product innovation and fail to apply the same rigor to understanding and engaging customers effectively.
2. Context and Customer Insights: Many organizations are good at product research but neglect gathering insights on customer behavior, pain points, and content consumption preferences, leading to ineffective go-to-market strategies.
3. Importance of Conversation Tracks: Adam described the concept of "conversation tracks" as a simplified, actionable approach to activating customer journeys. This involves segmenting customers at different stages and building content and demand programs tailored to these segments, ensuring the entire organization is aligned around this strategy.
4. Avoiding Random Acts of Marketing: A common pitfall in B2B companies where they engage in random acts of marketing, trying various tactics without a coherent strategy. This leads to inefficiency and a downward spiral in go-to-market effectiveness.
5. Shocking Customer Insights: Adam shared an example of a software company discovering through data analysis that their outbound sales team, which was responsible for most customer interactions, was actually contributing the least to sales success. This type of insight, gained from thorough customer research, can drastically shift how organizations approach sales and marketing.

Quote of the Show:

"I think a lot of organizations know how to do marketing research around a product, but they don't really know how to do it around go-to-market execution, around sales and marketing phases. They're not looking at higher order pain points. What was the issue that someone had before they looked for your product? What were those steps that led to? What was the actual composition of how many people were involved with that buying process? Who were the influencers? What were their roles?” - Adam Needles

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abneedles/  

https://www.annuitas.com/ 

Shoutouts:

• Scott Cook
• Martin Schneider
• The Chief Growth Officer’s Handbook

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast