The Cheat Code & Friends

Join hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray for a conversation with Sei Suriyakumar, head of marketing at Superhuman, on making one plus one equal three. This means combining different efforts and initiatives in a way that the value generated is greater than the sum of its parts. Sei emphasizes the importance of having a great product and building trust within the organization to implement these unconventional marketing strategies. Tune in for examples and advice on picking the right mix of marketing channels that are uniquely suited to your business to drive growth and success. 

Takeaways: 

1. Strategically orchestrating campaigns can create a viral effect and generate excitement among customers: Successful marketing campaigns are not just a result of creativity but also strategic planning. Sei shares that by carefully designing each element of the campaign—from messaging to timing and channel selection—companies can tap into customer emotions and behaviors that encourage sharing and engagement. This orchestration often includes leveraging the right influencers, integrating multi-channel marketing, and creating moments that resonate deeply with the audience. Essentially, it's about building momentum that customers drive forward themselves, turning them into brand advocates.
2. Using responsible marketing by focusing on revenue and cost of acquiring that revenue: Sei shares advice on how marketers must align their efforts with financial metrics, ensuring that campaigns are both effective and efficient. This approach fosters sustainable growth by optimizing marketing spend, prioritizing high-impact strategies, and constantly measuring return on investment (ROI). The emphasis is on quality over quantity—acquiring the right customers at the right cost rather than chasing vanity metrics like impressions or clicks.
3. The race car framework: According to Sei, the "race car" framework is a metaphor that highlights how companies can accelerate growth (turbo boosts) while also improving long-term sustainability (bending the baseline). The key is balancing these two elements: using turbo boosts strategically to capitalize on immediate opportunities while ensuring that the underlying business model is robust enough to sustain growth in the long run.

Quote of the Show:

"We often say that marketing is a game of cake layers. You're building one thing on top of another, on top of another, and really the win comes when those things combine to be that birthday cake at the end of the day. They're much more than just the individual ingredients, but together they come out to something so much more.” - Sei Suriyakumar

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seiyonne/ 

Shoutouts:

• Rahul Vohra
• Paul Teyssier
• Kristen Hayward

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this conversation, hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray chat with Joe Chernov, CMO at Pendo.io, on what he calls the streetlight effect in B2B marketing and the need to break free from the conventional KPIs that limit creativity and innovation. Joe emphasizes the importance of appealing to buyers and focusing on what would truly resonate with them, rather than solely relying on measurable metrics. He shares examples of marketing strategies that have worked for him, such as collaborations with influential individuals and podcast sponsorships. Together, they highlight the significance of trust between marketers and CEOs in order to create a culture that values good marketing over dashboard metrics. 

Takeaways:  

1. Recognize and overcome the streetlight effect: Joe emphasizes how marketers often focus on the metrics that are easy to measure — such as MQLs and lead generation — simply because they can. He defines this as the "streetlight effect," where marketers look for success under the easiest, most obvious indicators, even when those indicators don’t necessarily align with buyer behavior. Joe recommends shifting focus from easily measurable metrics to understanding and appealing to what truly resonates with buyers. 
2. Break free from conventional KPIs that limit creativity and innovation: The key is to avoid becoming so beholden to dashboards and metrics that you lose sight of marketing’s core mission — building real, human connections with potential buyers. Prioritize value creation and authentic engagement over rigid adherence to traditional KPIs that stifle creativity. 
3. Experiment with marketing strategies outside the norm: Embrace unconventional marketing tactics, such as innovative demos and partnerships, to engage prospects in authentic and meaningful ways. 
4. Build trust between marketers and CEOs: One of the key points Joe makes is the importance of having a CEO who trusts the marketing team to do its job well, without needing to justify every decision with a dashboard. Foster a collaborative culture where CEOs empower marketing teams to innovate without constant reliance on dashboard metrics for validation. 

Quote of the Show: 

"I think a good foundational question is, what would you do to appeal to your buyer? It's deliberately a generic word. I'm not saying convert. I'm not saying engage. Appeal to them. If KPIs didn't matter, what would you do just to appeal to them?" - Joe Chernov 

Links: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jchernov/   

Shoutouts: 

• Reprise 
• Pendo.io 
• Todd Olson 
• Bill Binch 

Ways to Tune In: 

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8  
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190  
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912  
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast  

Andrea Lechner-Becker, a self-proclaimed, “recovering CMO” and published author, reads a lot and has rarely found a problem there isn’t already a book about. In this episode, she details a few of her favorite examples, including the initial key to sticky ideas, which requires marketers to break people's guessing machine and surprise them. Andrea also covers the need to build relationships and educate leadership teams on the value of marketing.

Takeaways: 

1. Find a book that tells you how to do something and actually apply the lessons from it. Andrea shares how a wealth of knowledge is often hidden in plain sight within books, but it only becomes useful when put into action. The key isn’t just reading but applying what you’ve learned. Many people consume vast amounts of content but never take the steps to implement that knowledge. When you actively integrate insights from books into your work or life, you turn theory into practice and start seeing tangible results. 
2. Break people's guessing machine and surprise them to make your ideas stick. People are naturally wired to predict and make assumptions based on familiar patterns, but when you disrupt those expectations, you capture attention and make your message memorable. In marketing, this concept is critical because customers are constantly bombarded with information. Whether it’s a bold creative idea, an unconventional campaign, or an innovative product, when you defy expectations, your message resonates more deeply.
3. Creativity and taking risks are essential in marketing. At the heart of great marketing lies creativity — the ability to come up with fresh, innovative ideas that break through the noise. But creativity often comes with a level of risk, as it challenges the status quo and pushes boundaries. Risk-taking doesn’t mean being reckless; rather, it involves experimenting with bold ideas, understanding your audience, and being willing to step outside of your comfort zone. Great marketing is a balance between creativity and risk, where you learn to embrace uncertainty in order to create lasting impact.

Quote of the Show:

"You have to break someone's guessing machine in order to get them to pay attention to the message that you are using to get them to do something." - Andrea Lechner-Becker

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaelbee/  

Shoutouts:

• Drew Smith 
• 'Obviously Awesome' by April Dunford 
• 'Made to Stick' by Chip and Dan Heath 
• 'The Challenger Sale' by Matthew Dixon and Brent Adamson

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this conversation, hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray chat with Marco DePaulis, Director of Partnerships at Loop, on the power of co-marketing and partnerships in driving brand recognition and demand gen. Marco emphasizes the importance of going to market with symbiotic players in the space to reach the desired audience and build trust. Marco also discusses the need for alignment and buy-in from leadership and other teams within the organization to ensure the success of partnership initiatives. This episode highlights the value of tracking both qualitative and quantitative data to measure the impact of partnerships and justify continued investment.

Takeaways: 

1. The Power of Strategic Partnerships: Marco discussed how collaborating with symbiotic partners who already have established trust with the target audience can greatly enhance credibility, efficiency, and effectiveness in reaching new customers.
2. Importance of Alignment and Execution in Co-Marketing: Successful co-marketing depends on choosing the right partners who can actually mobilize and participate effectively. Marco shared that it’s crucial to align on shared goals and expectations early on to avoid execution issues down the line.
3. Building Brand Recognition Through Partnerships: Marco highlighted how partnerships can accelerate brand recognition, especially when entering new markets or verticals. By leveraging the credibility and reach of established partners, brands can quickly establish themselves as key players in a new space.
4. Tracking and Leveraging Data for Success: Tracking both qualitative and quantitative data to support the effectiveness of partnerships is critical. Marco emphasized that success is often measured not just by direct revenue, but also by the impact on broader metrics like brand awareness, demand generation, and customer retention.

Quote of the Show:

"There's so much opportunity to go to market with symbiotic players in your space that work with the brands and customers that you want to be in front of and that already have their trust. So why not go out to them and talk to them as a trusted partner of somebody that they're already working with or speaking or have some sort of a relationship with? You are just that much more efficient and effective and trustworthy.” - Marco De Paulis

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mdepaulis/ 

Website: https://www.loopreturns.com/ 

Shoutouts:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davegerhardt/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

Join hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray for a conversation with Kelly Hopping, CMO of Demandbase, on being a business athlete. In this episode, Kelly emphasizes the importance of understanding the financials and thinking like a business person in order to gain the respect of peers, justify marketing's value, and make better decisions. Kelly provides tips on gaining context by talking to finance partners, listening to investor calls, and leveraging the revenue operations team. 

Takeaways: 

1. Ask Questions and Seek Context: It's crucial for marketers to be curious and proactive in learning about the business. Kelly suggests asking questions, collaborating with finance and rev ops teams, and listening to investor calls to gain insights into the company's priorities and performance. This knowledge allows marketers to make informed decisions and contribute more effectively.
2. Balance ROI with Brand Building: Kelly explains that while it's important to measure the ROI of marketing activities, there should also be an understanding that not all initiatives can be directly tied to immediate financial returns. Some efforts, like corporate events, play a significant role in brand building and long-term success. Marketers need to strike a balance between proving ROI and investing in these intangibles.
3. Digital Engagement is Crucial: The modern B2B buyer prefers to conduct extensive research digitally before engaging with a salesperson. This trend necessitates ungated content, product demos on websites, and influencer marketing to effectively reach and engage potential customers.
4. Account-Based Marketing (ABM) Delivers High ROI: ABM has shown significant ROI compared to traditional demand generation, as it allows companies to target and engage with specific accounts showing buying signals. Kelly shares that this approach is more effective in identifying and converting the 5% of the market actively looking for a solution.
5. Importance of Value Selling and Customer Onboarding: For complex B2B sales, it's essential to focus on value selling rather than just competing on features and price. Ensuring customers see value quickly through proper onboarding and integration is key to retention and expansion.

Quote of the Show:

"Common sense doesn't always translate to getting the CFO to give you more money. Sometimes that's the hard part.” - Kelly Hopping

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyhopping/ 

Website: https://www.demandbase.com/ 

Shoutouts:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtbricker/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this episode, hosts Josh Wagner and Sean Kester are joined by Steve Armenti, B2B Marketing VP, ex-Google, to discuss two angles of storytelling: how to storytell to the market and how to storytell internally to build a career and achieve goals. Steve shares his experience of bringing ABM (Account-Based Marketing) into Google Chrome and the playbook he ran. Together, they touch on the importance of storytelling in marketing and the need for operational infrastructure to support marketing efforts. Steve emphasizes the significance of understanding the audience and tailoring the story accordingly. 

Tune in for a discussion on the challenges of marketing to marketers and selling to salespeople and advice for creating a compelling narrative.

Takeaways: 

1. Storytelling as a Core Strategy: This applies not only to external marketing efforts but also internally within an organization. Steve shares that effective storytelling is crucial for securing budget, aligning teams, and driving initiatives forward.
2. Importance of Internal Alignment: Achieving internal buy-in, especially between marketing and sales, is critical. Steve emphasized the need for joint OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) and cross-functional collaboration to ensure both departments are aligned in their goals and strategies, particularly in a challenging environment where budgets are tight and expectations are high.
3. Operational Efficiency and Data-Driven Marketing: Operational infrastructure, including data management and automation, is essential to enhance marketing effectiveness. Organizations must invest in operations to handle large-scale lead generation efforts effectively and reduce inefficiencies, such as high rejection rates of marketing-qualified leads (MQLs).
4. Targeting the Right Audience: Steve shares that when marketing or selling, understanding the specific type of person you're dealing with is key. Tailoring your approach to their specific needs and roles can significantly improve the effectiveness of your message.

Quote of the Show:

"Tune into the emotional aspect of your customer and make them the main character of the story. When you get that right and you do that repetitively and it's true in everything you create, then it starts to stick and that's what makes a good brand.” - Steve Armenti

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenarmenti/  

Shoutouts:

https://hockeystack.com/ 

https://www.lavender.ai/ 

https://www.clay.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this episode, the hosts dive deep into the intersection of marketing and partnerships with a special focus on leveraging personal brand development as a powerful marketing cheat code. Greg shares how he unexpectedly became a thought leader in the B2B space by sharing genuine insights and experiences on LinkedIn, a platform he once viewed with skepticism.

Greg discusses the journey of launching his company and how building a personal brand through authentic content creation on LinkedIn not only expanded their audience but also significantly contributed to the company’s growth—all without spending a dime on traditional marketing. 

Takeaways: 

1. Humility and Authenticity in Building a Brand: Greg discussed the importance of staying humble and authentic when building a brand on social media. He found that sharing genuine experiences and insights resonated deeply with the audience.

2. Organic Growth Through Community Engagement: Greg grew his LinkedIn audience from 5,000 to 15,000 in six months by consistently providing valuable content without any paid promotion. This organic growth was driven by community engagement and the positive response to helpful, experience-based posts.

3. Challenges of Scaling Personal Brand and Influence: Greg highlighted the difficulty of scaling personal brand-building efforts while maintaining quality and authenticity. As the speaker’s influence grew, they received offers to promote products, but Greg stressed the importance of staying true to their values and not diluting their message.

4. The Role of Personal Connections in B2B Marketing: Greg noted that B2B marketing is increasingly adopting tactics from B2C, like influencer marketing, but emphasized that in B2B, the quality of personal connections and trust is crucial. Scaling these efforts without losing the personal touch is a significant challenge in the B2B space.

Quote of the Show:

"You can't really run partnerships successfully, at least in my opinion, without a strong marketing footprint and a strong go to market footprint."- Justin Gray

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregportnoy/ 

Website: https://eulerapp.com/ 

Shoutouts:

• Euler
• ARCADIA Leadership Summit 
• Spiff 

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

Tune in as hosts Josh Wagner and Sean Kester sit down with Gauri Chawla, SVP of Alliances at Stibo Systems, to discuss the importance of messaging and value proposition in go-to-market strategies. Gauri emphasizes the need to communicate the value of a product or solution clearly to customers and partners, and highlights the role of messaging in building strong relationships and driving success. Together they discuss the collaboration required between different teams and stakeholders, including marketing, sales, and executives, to create and iterate on value propositions. 

Takeaways: 

1. Clear messaging and value proposition are critical in go-to-market strategies. Gauri discusses how potential customers must immediately understand what your product does, how it solves their pain points, and why it's superior to alternatives. A well-defined value proposition should be tailored to resonate with your target audience, addressing their specific needs and challenges.
2. Effective communication of the value of a product or solution is essential for success. Gauri explains how consistency in messaging across all platforms and interactions ensures that customers receive a unified and compelling narrative about your product, increasing their confidence in choosing your solution.
3. Collaboration between different teams and stakeholders is necessary to create and iterate on the value proposition. Creating a compelling value proposition requires input from various teams—marketing, sales, product development, customer support, and more. Each team brings a unique perspective on what customers need and how the product can meet those needs. As market conditions, customer preferences, and competitive landscapes change, so too should your value proposition. 
4. Ongoing training and enablement are important to ensure the value proposition is effectively communicated. Providing your teams with the right tools, such as detailed product guides, value proposition documents, and customer personas, ensures they have the resources they need to convey the value of your product consistently and convincingly.
5. The partner ecosystem presents both challenges and opportunities in go-to-market strategies. Partners can extend your reach, open up new markets, and add credibility to your product. A strong partner ecosystem can be a significant driver of growth, helping you scale more effectively. However, managing partnerships can be complex. Misalignment on goals, communication issues, and conflicts of interest can arise. Successful go-to-market strategies involve carefully selecting partners, aligning on mutual goals, and maintaining strong, open communication to navigate these challenges.

Quote of the Show:

"If you can't communicate the value of what you're trying to have your customers buy, then what are you doing?" - Gauri Chawla

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gauri-chawla-422425/  

Website: http://www.stibosystems.com/ 

Shoutouts:

• Sam Yarborough
• Jason Yarborough
• Microsoft

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

In this episode, Justin Zimmerman shares his go-to-market cheat code for successful partnership marketing through events. He emphasizes the power of leveraging LinkedIn influencers and creating “partner pods” to drive traffic and generate leads. Justin discusses the importance of aligning partners with the same ideal customer profile (ICP) and how to manage different intent signals within the pod. Tune in to learn more on the need for personalized follow-up and lead scoring to ensure effective sales conversations.  

Takeaways: 

1. Leverage LinkedIn influencers and partner pods to drive traffic and generate leads: Justin emphasizes the power of LinkedIn influencers in driving traffic for events. He advocates creating a "partner pod," where multiple non-competing influencers collaborate to maximize reach and lead generation.
2. Align partners with the same ideal customer profile (ICP) to maximize the impact: Look for partners whose products or services complement each other without competing, ensuring mutual benefit for each partner's audience and define common goals for the partnership, ensuring alignment on objectives and success metrics.
3. Personalize follow-up and lead scoring to ensure effective sales conversations: Engaging content and personalized follow-up are crucial. Justin’s approach includes using pre-event activities to identify attendee needs and tailoring the event content and follow-up messages to those needs.

Quote of the Show:

"I take a lot of responsibility and ownership over the relationships and conversations that I'm creating on behalf of both my own personal brand and the companies and individuals that are trusting me to do marketing at scale, oftentimes using and leveraging their names and brand.” - Justin Zimmerman

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinzim/  

Website: https://partnerplaybooks.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast 

Join hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray for a conversation with Chris Walker, CEO of Passetto, that dives deep into the essential elements of aligning marketing strategies with overall business success. Chris emphasizes the importance of understanding your customers and market better than anyone else, arguing that marketing decisions should be based on direct customer insights supported by both qualitative and quantitative data. The conversation highlights the necessity of viewing marketing as a core business strategy encompassing positioning, messaging, pricing, and distribution. Tune in for actionable insights that will help you align your marketing strategies with your business objectives for sustainable growth.

Takeaways: 

1. Understand Your Customers and Market Better Than Anyone Else: Chris Walker emphasizes the importance of deep customer and market understanding. He argues that marketing decisions should be based on insights directly from customers, supported by both qualitative and quantitative data. This approach reduces internal debates and aligns marketing strategies with real customer needs and behaviors.
2. Qualitative research is crucial in determining what to do next in marketing. While quantitative data shows how things are, qualitative insights reveal the underlying reasons and motivations. This helps in refining value propositions and targeting the right audience more effectively.
3. Marketing should be viewed as a critical part of business strategy rather than just an auxiliary function. It encompasses positioning, messaging, pricing, and distribution. Founders need to understand and prioritize marketing to drive business growth, making it as important as understanding financials or sales.
4. CMOs need to have a strong understanding of finance and sales to gain the trust of CFOs and CEOs. This involves not just justifying past marketing spend but also forecasting the ROI of future investments. Without this financial acumen, marketing leaders may struggle to secure necessary budgets and demonstrate the value of their strategies.

Quote of the Show:

"There's a clear disconnection between the financial metrics that are being looked at at the C-level or the board and the go-to market metrics. And they do not connect together." - Chris Walker

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswalker171/ 

Website: https://passetto.com/ 

Shoutouts:

https://www.refinelabs.com

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast