Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

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·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

About the Episode: 

Today, in the final episode of our very first season, the tables turn. 

For nearly 30 episodes, I’ve asked the questions, held space for others to open up, and pulled at threads in hopes that you, the audience - leaders and colleges - could find resources and actionable strategies. Now I find myself on the other side of the mic, sitting face to face with my mirror, Jesse Link - (and by chance a literal mirror!) We get into my own journey — my upbringing, my family, the roads I’ve walked, the mistakes I’ve made, the systems I’ve built to stay standing, and the people and relationships that keep me whole. 

Guest Host:

Jesse Link is a strategic partner to agencies and growing businesses, helping CEOs connect the dots between their numbers, their narratives, and themselves. He’s also the lead researcher at Healing Our Politics, and, proudly, a coaching client turned lifelong friend. 

From college athlete, to climbing the ladder at Goldman Sachs, and founding a venture-backed startup, Jesse decided to step off the corporate fast track, to follow the crooked path — the kind built through failure, creative discovery, and honest reinvention. Not the one laid out for him on Wall Street, but one that meant something. And while he’s exploring new creative frontiers — through writing, video, and documentary — he’s still learning to lead with not knowing. 

He’s asking the big questions  — what drives us, what blocks us, and how we find our way back to passion. 

. 

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Episode/Guest Host Intro

· [00:09:03] Identifying as a Public Service   

· [00:12:43] What Would Grandma Think?

· [00:18:17] Skippy Shows His Cards: Political Family History 

· [00:23:43] Partnership as Lead Domino, Partnerships is a Verb 

· [00:28:45] Selfishness in a Good Way 

· [00:29:50] Discipline and Practice 

· [00:32:55] What Worked for Weirdo (Skippy) 

· [00:34:20] Hitting the Decision Point  

· [00:36:20] Change of Environment 

· [00:37:43] From the Illusion of Confidence to Genuine Confidence 

· [00:40:07] It's More of a Spectrum of Growth than a “Before and After” 

· [00:49:30] Unrelenting Hope 

· [00:55:22] Ho to be an Unbogged Public Servant 

· [01:00:48] Skippy’s Happiness Parachute in Office (An Unsolved Bog) 

· [01:03:54] Time In Office and Campaigning for Conversation 

· [01:12:25] Leaders are the Wheel, not the Gas

· [01:16:20] SPONSOR: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP15

· [01:17:15] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

· [01:19:35] Comparison in a Bubble of Privilege 

· [01:24:46] The Dichotomy of Shame and Desire of Wealth 

· [01:26:12] Available Resources for Public Servants and its Consequences 

· [01:31:37] Financial Responsibility as a Constraint for High Function 

· [01:31:37] A Digression into Spinny Flippy Zone 

· [01:35:25] Safety and Risk 

· [01:39:25] Fear is a Yellow Light 

· [01:43:34] Skippy’s Theory of Travel (and tips!) 

· [01:54:12] How to Stay Charged While at Work 

· [01:57:16] Rapid Fire Q&A’s: From Favorite Color to Biggest Fear 

· [02:04:34] Skippy’s Zone of Genius: The Wellbeing of Leaders 

· [02:13:45] HealingOurPolitics.com 

· [02:13:50] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [02:14:04] ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

· [02:14:04] Support ELC 

Key References and Resources Mentioned:

· [00:28:40] David Allen HOP Episode

· [01:10:44] Roland Griffiths

· [01:26:30] Rick Doblin HOP Episode 

· [02:00:23] The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion, Jonathan Haidt

· [02:13:50] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [02:18:18] SPONSOR: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP15

Where to Find Jesse Link:

• [email protected]

Where to Find Skippy Mesirow:

• Receive Support at the Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com
• Follow on Instagram www.instagam.com/skippymesirow
• @healingourpolitics
• Book a free Clarity Call https://calendly.com/skippymesirow/elc-clarity-call  to see if coaching is right for you

Episode Sponsor:

Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP15 

Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com (ELC)

Helping You Heal Our Politics

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:

Dr. Kurt Gray is an award-winning psychologist and one of the country’s leading experts on moral psychology and political polarization. With a PhD from Harvard university, Kurt is a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he directs two groundbreaking institutions: the Deepest Beliefs Lab and the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. Through these, he explores how our deepest convictions shape society, and how we can bridge divides, and he also serves as an adjunct professor at UNC’s Kenan-Flagler Business School, where he trains future leaders to lead ethically in polarized environments. This fall, Kurt will be the incoming Weary Foundation Endowed Chair in the Social Psychology of Polarization and Misinformation at Ohio State University. 

Dr. Gray’s work has been featured in The New York Times, The Economist, Wired, and NPR’s Hidden Brain, and he's spoken on multiple TEDx stages. He’s the recipient of numerous honors including the Janet Spence Award, the Theoretical Innovation Prize, and the Psi Chi Award for Undergraduate Teaching Excellence. His new book,  Outraged!: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground,  hit #1 in its category on Amazon —  *And it’s a must-read!*

About the Episode: 

In this conversation, Dr. Kurt Gray breaks down the psychological patterns that drive division in our politics—insights that are essential for anyone working in public service or elected leadership today. He explains why we instinctively cast others as either villains or victims, and how that oversimplification fuels polarization and undermines our ability to build coalitions or govern effectively. We explore how fear—far more than fact—shapes political behavior, and why traditional messaging strategies so often fail to persuade. Kurt unpacks the double-edged nature of moral outrage—how it can unite us around shared values or tear us apart when left unchecked. For those working to lead ethically in polarized environments, we discuss how to create the kind of spaces—whether in town halls, policy negotiations, or public messaging— where people actually feel safe enough to listen, reflect, and shift. From the power of storytelling to the importance of ditching the small talk, and braving deeper questions, Dr. Gray offers science-backed strategies that can help restore civility, rebuild public trust, and lead with integrity in times of uncertainty. Whether you're knocking doors, or sitting in a city council seat, this conversation will sharpen your leadership and deepen your impact.

Key Topics Discussed: 

· [00:02:40] Guest/Episode Intro

· [00:07:50] Other Minds 

· [00:09:00] “You never understand me!” 

· [00:10:20] Learning to Adapt Early in Life

· [00:13:07] Skippy’s Experiences from Across the Globe!

· [00:16:30] What’s the Protection Narrative Here? 

· [00:18:50] Fear is Driving Behavior 

· [00:21:02] The Apex Predator Myth

· [00:24:40] We are Herd Animals 

· [00:26:58] The Trend of Presence 

· [00:28:28] Social Media is giving Above Clinical Threshold PTSD

· [00:29:36] What is the right thing to do?: Norms and Morals 

· [00:33:48] Statistical Truths Become Irrelevant  

· [00:34:32] Rationality, Self Interest and the Breadth of Morality 

· [00:36:46] What Do We Lose In the Absence of Safety?

· [00:39:15] Good Choices for Bad Intent

· [00:39:48] What Makes Something/Someone Evil? 

· [00:42:00] Humanizing Hitler 

· [00:47:21] The Victim/Villan Narratives: Moral Type Casting

· [00:50:35] SPONSOR: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP15

· [00:51:30] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

· [00:53:50] When is Outrage Bad?

· [00:57:40] The Selfish Reason 

· [01:00:40] When Disagreement is Unsafe 

· [01:02:05] "E pluribus unum"

· [01:03:50] The Power of Trying to Understand 

· [01:05:43] It’s a Hard Sell 

· [01:06:21] The Power of Stories

· [01:08:15] Better Questions Yield Deeper Connections 

· [01:11:00] The Fast Friends Protocol 

· [01:13:11] A Herd Species in the Age of Social Anxiety and Fear 

· [01:16:15] Moral Creep  

· [01:23:07] Step 1: Recognize Shared Intentions/Validity

· [01:23:57] Step 2: Share Your Stories

· [01:25:35] Final Question: Keep Asking Questions to Understand 

· [01:29:50] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [01:30:55] Sponsor: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP155

· [01:31:50] Sponsor: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

Key References and Resources Mentioned:

· [00:07:43] Outraged! on Amazon

· [00:31:22] The WEIRDest People in the World, Joseph Henrich 

· [00:59:20] The Habsburg Family 

· [01:02:05] "E pluribus unum"

· [01:03:05] Daryl Davis 

· [01:03:44] Dr. Dianna Smith HOP Episode 

· [01:03:47] Remaking the Space B...

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:

Eldra Jackson III is the Co-Executive Director of Inside Circle, a nonprofit dedicated to breaking the cycles of incarceration and violence through healing-centered inner work. But what makes his experience essential is that Eldra doesn’t just lead this work—he lived it.

He spent 24 years in prison for robbery and attempted murder, including years in solitary confinement. It was in that extreme isolation that Eldra began the transformational work that would change his life—and now impacts countless others.

Since his release, he’s become a national voice in trauma-informed care, restorative justice, and men’s emotional wellness. He’s a TEDx speaker, the subject of the award-winning documentary The Work, and has been featured by NBC News, Forbes, and the LA Times. He also hosts the Inside Circle podcast, where I was honored to join him earlier this year..

About the Episode: 

Whether you're designing policy, leading a team, or simply seeking deeper understanding —this conversation will challenge you, move you, and equip you with new insight. In this raw and deeply personal conversation, Eldra takes us through his journey through trauma, transformation, and the hard truths behind incarceration in America. We begin by exploring Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and how untreated trauma in early life can lead to lives marked by crime, apathy, and pain. Eldra offers a rare, firsthand look at the psychology of gang culture, the pursuit of power, and the deep role that fear and survival play in shaping identity and behavior. We dive into big, systemic questions: Should prison be punitive, rehabilitative, or something else entirely? What do most political leaders misunderstand about human behavior and the roots of violence? And if Eldra had the power to wave a magic wand, what would he do to reduce crime and incarceration by 80% tomorrow?

We discuss the structure and philosophy behind "circle work," the transformative group healing practice that Eldra now facilitates with incarcerated and formerly incarcerated men, the nature of toxic masculinity, the resistance many men feel toward emotional vulnerability, and what it actually takes to undo that conditioning. Perhaps most powerfully, Eldra shares the daily practices and mindsets that keep him grounded and in service to others. This episode is straightforward, surprising, and ultimately hopeful—a powerful reminder that real transformation is possible, not just for individuals, but for systems. 

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Guest/Episode Introduction

· [00:06:18] What love means to Eldra

· [00:07:36] Learning to Feel despite Cultural Messaging, and Trauma

· [00:12:22] Sharing for the first time 

· [00:14:42] Indoctrinated into Secrecy 

· [00:16:10] A Central Unnamed Fear 

· [00:18:53] Who was "Vegas”

· [00:21:53] Fear motivating aggression

· [00:24:13] What is Gang Culture? 

· [00:29:05] The danger in apathy

· [00:30:40] Eldra’s Rock Bottom: Worse than Charles Manson

· [00:33:45] The Mindset of Attempted Murder 

· [00:36:11] How did you get out of prison? 

· [00:39:37] What shifted in you to convince the Board? 

· [00:33:15] Taking Responsibility

· [00:43:55] SPONSOR: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP15

· [00:44:50] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

· [00:47:45] The New Goal: Escaping Internal Prisons 

· [00:48:23] ACEs: Adverse Childhood Experiences

· [00:51:15] What Keeps you out of prison? 

· [00:52:19] The Practice of “Who do I want to be today?”/”How did I show up today?” 

· [00:55:20] Keeping the Practice of Circle 

· [00:56:56] What is Circle? How does it work? 

· [01:04:30] Another Story from Circle 

· [01:08:08] Failures in Understanding and Systemic Apathy 

· [01:09:35] Emotional Literacy as the Key to fewer Incarcerations 

· [01:10:50] Evil is real and born from intention

· [01:12:51] A Transformational plan (not Rehabilitation) 

· [01:15:55] Toxic Masculinity 

· [01:17:50] The Weaponization of the Concept 

· [01:18:11] Meeting Internal Resistance

· [01:21:17] Know and Love Yourself as a Model to others

· [01:23:40] Final Question: See Yourself in Other People

· [01:24:43]] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [01:25:50] Sponsor: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP155

· [01:26:45] Sponsor: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

Key References and Resources Mentioned:

· [00:04:10] Eldra’s TED Talk

· [00:04:34] Inside Circle Podcast 

· [00:04:36] Inside Circle Episode w/ Skippy 

· [00:15:57] HOP Episode w/ Bryan Hubbard 

· [00:36:42] California Board of Parole Hearings

· [00:48:23] ACEs: Adverse Childhood Experiences

· [00:48:35] The Violence Project

· [01:21:57] InsideCircle.org 

· [01:23:00] Outside Circle, October 10-12 2025 in SF 

· [01:24:43]] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [01:25:50] Sponsor: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP155

· [01:26:45] Sponsor: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

Where to Find Eldra Jackson III:

• InsideCircle.org 
• Inside Circle Podcast 

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:
Rick Doblin  is a man who saw a future no one else believed in: to restore and reimagine the role of psychedelics in society as tools for healing. Today, after nearly four decades of joyful persistence, legal battles, and spiritual grit, that dream is a global movement. Rick is the founder and president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, or MAPS, a nonprofit that’s been at the absolute forefront of psychedelic research since 1986: If you’ve ever had a serious conversation about psychedelic medicine, chances are, you’ve encountered his work — directly or indirectly.

Rick holds a Ph.D. in Public Policy from the Harvard Kennedy School, where he wrote his dissertation on the regulation of the medical uses of psychedelics and marijuana and his Master’s thesis on a survey of oncologists about smoked marijuana vs. the oral THC pill in nausea control for cancer patients. His undergraduate thesis at New College of Florida was a 25-year follow-up to the classic Good Friday Experiment, which evaluated the potential of psychedelic drugs to catalyze religious experiences. He also conducted a thirty-four year follow-up study to Timothy Leary’s Concord Prison Experiment. Rick studied with Dr. Stanislav Grof and was among the first to be certified as a Holotropic Breathwork practitioner. His professional goal is to help develop legal contexts for the beneficial uses of psychedelics and marijuana, primarily as prescription medicines but also for personal growth for otherwise healthy people, and eventually to become a legally licensed psychedelic therapist. Rick has been a featured guest for TED Talks,  and the Students for Sensible Drug Policy ,SSPD, and just last year was recognized as one of the most influential people in global health, 2024 TIME 100 Health Honoree. He’s part philosopher, part policy strategist, part spiritual truth seeker, and CONTINUES to be one of the most persistent, thoughtful, and — frankly — courageous advocates for psychedelics as tools for healing.

About the Episode: 

I first sat down with Rick months ago, but in light of the FDA’s decision against MDA assisted psychotherapy, dropping just before the original episode release, I HAD to check in with Rick again for the whole picture. In this exciting two-parter you get Rick’s perspective PRE and POST the FDA’s decision. 

In the first half, we dig into Rick's 40 year journey, including never before told stories about his early life, the founding of MAPS, what it's like to stay true to a vision no one else believed was possible, and Rick’s decades-long chess game with the FDA. We talk about making bipartisan coalitions last, unconventional approaches to management, how to discern grit from stubbornness, and how to reframe fundraising asked to truly connect with lasting mission aligned support, structuring your organization - for profit, non-profit, or something else-  how to turn enemies to allies, and how to fight major institutions and win. In the second half, we discuss how MAPS is paving the way for global psychedelic healing, as well as Rick’s personal approaches for staying committed through uncertainty, how to build systems and practices to sustain yourself over time, how to remain warm, open, and connected in the face of mass public criticism, and what it takes to scale a movement from a single believer to a global institution. We touch on MAPS's new push to measure gross national trauma with a goal of net zero trauma by 2070 and how you as a public servant, leader, or active citizen can help us get there. This episode takes us deep inside Rick’s toolkit so that you are resourced to do what others can’t yet imagine.

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Guest/Episode Intro

· [00:04:45] This is a 2-Part Episode! 

· [00:08:12] PART ONE

· [00:08:12] Moses was high, Dad! 

· [00:13:30] An Exemplary Pathway for Leaders

· [00:14:30] “Then they take you for granted…” 

· [00:15:50] “Winning” isn’t forever 

· [00:15:57] Magister Ludi: The Glass Bead Game (*Spoiler Alert*)

· [00:20:45] Predicting Civil War 

· [00:22:05] The Success of Preposterous Lies 

· [00:25:11] The Beginning of the Mission 

· [00:27:43] MAPS’ 38th Anniversary 

· [00:29:27] Core of Darkness Wrapped in Privilege 

· [00:34:33] What My Bar Mitzvah Should Have Been

· [00:38:00] Becoming Political via Landline Propaganda

· [00:42:20] Study and Practice of Non Violent Resistance 

· [00:42:43] Side Note About Getting Sucked Into Systems (Don’t volunteer yourself) 

· [00:44:33] Oasis of Sanity: Exploring Psychedelics 

· [00:46:22] From Counter Culture to Culture (“Criminal” to Psychotherapist) 

· [00:47:30] 1960s Culture of Silence 

· [00:49:57] The Political Exaggeration of Psychedelics

· [00:52:50] Understanding Commonality, Backed by Experience

· [00:55:50 Wanting to Quit?

· [00:58:20] Science Blocked by Politics: Rick’s Shift to Harvard

· [00:59:08] Winning the Lawsuit but Losing the Job

· [01:00:00] 14 Years Into MAPS: the STRUGGLE to begin Research

· [01:01:54] Independent Institutional Review Boards 

· [01:02:01] Western IRB, now part of the WCG (WIRB-Copernicus Group)

· [01:02:04] 17 Years In: Approved to BEGIN 

· [01:03:37] Training Inner Work, Renewal of Convictions, and the Measure of Happiness  

· [01:07:09] Success in Small Victories and Just Showing Up

· [01:11:06] Back to the Story!: Approval Rescinded

· [01:12:10] Politics Blocked Science, Again

· [01:14:07] Finding Copernicus: Approval Finally Granted

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:

Bryan Hubbard is a visionary leader in psychedelic medicine reform and one of the most influential voices in America’s fight against the opioid crisis. He’s the former Chairman and Executive Director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission, Special Counsel for Kentucky’s Medicaid Fraud and Abuse Commission, a board member of the Commonwealth Center for Fathers and Families, and a commissioner for both the Mental Health and Recovery-Ready Communities Commissions—where he brings his prodigious intellect and force of nature to the work of healing others.

As Director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Commission, Bryan secured $42 million in opioid settlement funds for ibogaine research and treatment—making Kentucky the first state to publicly pursue psychedelic therapy as a solution to opioid addiction. That bold move placed him in collaboration with an eclectic mix of national leaders—from Rick Doblin and Rick Perry to Senator Kyrsten Sinema—while igniting a rare, bipartisan conversation about what true healing in America might look like.

Now, as Executive Director of the American Ibogaine Initiative at the REID Foundation, Bryan is coordinating efforts across more than 20 states to build ethical, science-backed systems for healing trauma, addiction, and despair. Through big wins and big setbacks, he’s remained rooted in his mission: restoring dignity, health, and hope.

About the Episode: 
In this episode, we explore Bryan Hubbard’s journey from rural Appalachia—the son of two coal-mining families steeped in generational poverty—to the front lines of America’s opioid crisis. Bryan shares what it was like to watch loved ones, including family members, die from the slow collapse into apathy, fear, and hopelessness. We talk about the reality of living with a spouse suffering from mental illness, the national tragedy of addiction, and the possibility of real, lasting healing. We examine how the myth of difference and division—fueled by political parties and the media—distorts our sense of shared humanity, and we offer a toolkit to reclaim it. We dive deep into faith, God, and purpose, and how we are more than isolated individuals—we are part of a sacred, interconnected whole. Bryan speaks to how medicines like ibogaine can help reconnect us to the divine, however we understand it. Bryan walks us through his approach to doing hard things—like taking on a politically unthinkable cause—and breaks down the playbook so you can bring forward something you care deeply about, even if others don’t yet understand. Bryan Hubbard is one of the most passionate, eloquent, and insightful men I’ve ever met. He challenges my assumptions, softens my judgments, and gives me hope—for myself, for us, and for what’s possible.

I hope he does the same for you. Please enjoy this powerful, healing, and reverent conversation with Bryan Hubbard.

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Guest/Episode Introduction

· [00:10:30] On the Human Level: Jo Alice and Bryan’s Experience

· [00:17:00] Logic and Choice Were Not Options 

· [00:18:35] The Ibogaine Journey begins 

· [00:21:18] Childhood Trained Me to be Her Husband 

· [00:22:40] SSRI Free for 5 days

· [00:26:00] Jo Alice’s LAST Celexa and Compounded Transformation

· [00:27:22] An Answered Prayer, An Affirmation of Love 

· [00:28:50] Three Words From Before : Fear, Grief, Hope

· [00:29:29] Three Words From After: Gratitude, Joy… Rapturous (ie: “Right Carnal”) 

· [00:31:52] The “C” Word is in the Realm of Possible

· [00:32:50] Ibogaine’s 3rd Piece & the Disease of Despair

· [00:34:17] The Opioid Epidemic: Engineered Catastrophe 

· [00:36:07] The 2 Parts of  Purdue Pharma 

· [00:37:08] Where Oxycontin was Detonated 

· [00:37:40] The Host Conditions of Addiction 

· [00:38:47] Brief History of WV and KY’s Appalachian Communities 

· [00:44:45] Killing the Pain & Public Systems Failures 

· [00:47:20] Misunderstanding the Conditions 

· [00:49:46] Owning Your Contribution to the Problem 

· [00:50:30] Spiritual Pain as Physical Pain 

· [00:51:35] The Need for Spiritual Recognition

· [00:54:25] The Power of Sanctuary, Loving Relationships and Spiritual Affirmations

· [00:56:40] SPONSOR: Skyrun Vacation Rentals: Use Code HOP15

· [00:57:35] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

· [01:00:00] The Scale of Suffering Today 

· [01:04:54] Skippy in North Korea!? 

· [01:06:44] The 2008 Financial Crisis as a Catalyst 

· [01:09:13] Suffering is EVERYONE’s Problem 

· [01:11:01] Where do we from here?: “Spiritualize Humanity” 

· [01:11:56] Opposites Arriving at the Same Conclusion 

· [01:14:00] Tempering Optimism with Pragmatism: Ibogaine is the Beginning

· [01:15:40] “A Tough Row to Hoe” 

· [01:16:00] Hunter S. Thompson Campaign 

· [01:16:37] Months of Research and Critical Examination 

· [01:18:16] The Brain’s Starvation caused by Opioid Dependency 

· [01:19:05] Ibogaine’s RAPID Restoration of Dopamine and Serotonin

· [01:20:00] Persuading the Attorney General 

· [01:20:45] Listening to the Public 

· [01:23:35] Ibogaine’s Lack of Cultural Stigma Provided an Opening 

· [01:25:50] Disconnection from Divine Love 

· [01:26:15] Respecting the Free Will of Belief & Acknowledging our Connection

· [01:28:00] Plant Medicine An Overwhelming Feeling of Gratefulness 

· [01:29:20] Who Would YOU Be? 

· [01:31:27] Navigating Good-Faith Pushback 

· [01:32:39] Meeting Opposition with a Question and Testimony 

· [01:34:13] Opposition Motivated by Self Interest ($$$)

· [01:35:35] Expose, Confront and Hold Accountable 

· [01:35:51] Relationship to Patience 

· [01:39:04] Final Question: Your Love Can Break Fabricated Divisions

· [01:41:15] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [01:42:27] SPONSOR: Skyrun Vacation Rental: Use Code HOP15

· [01:43:15] Sponsor: ELC (https://www.elected...

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

In our 3rd *EPISODE-LETTE* Join us for this quick 15-minute IG LIVE based HOP hot take, with...

Sam Daley-Harris, Author of Reclaiming Our Democracy 📖 🇺🇸
Founder Civic Courage 💪🏼🦁
Creator “Transformational Advocacy” 📣❤️

Want to become a "Transformational Advocate"?
Use this link, and Sam will help you find the organization right for you!:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdCQuqj-4O2eh4Sfy_E-dfVntbPlqg1A4T4oQ8E2J0nuZbD-w/viewform

Sam has spent decades studying how to make advocacy an act of courage that brings us together to enact lasting change for the collective benefit. 

Sam's Book: https://reclaimingourdemocracy.com/

We Talk About:
🗣️ ADVOCACY, PROTEST, COURAGE, WORKING TOGETHER  🏛️

To hear more from Sam shoot us a DM, or email info at Electedleaderscollective.com to request a full episode of the healing our politics podcast 🎙️

Where to Find Host Skippy Mesirow:

• Receive Support at the Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com
• Follow on Instagram www.instagam.com/skippymesirow
• Book a free Clarity Call https://calendly.com/skippymesirow/elc-clarity-call  to see if coaching is right for you

Episode Sponsor:

Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com (ELC)

Helping You Heal Our Politics

The Elected Leaders Collective (ELC) organization is the leading US-based provider of mental well-being training for public servants, conducted by public servants and the world's best mental health and human optimization professionals. With ELC Training, you will learn to rise above and become the political healer you were meant to be, improving your well-being in the process.

Website: ElectedLeadersCollective.com

Contact the HOP Team:

Do you have an episode idea?

Want to suggest a guest?

Can you provide critical feedback?

We'd love to hear from you!

Contact our team at [email protected]

Your input helps us create content that matters.

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:
Damien Williamson is a 2024 Bard Environmental Defense Fellow, driving sustainable solutions at both the corporate and policy levels. He is a former editor-in-chief of Aspen Peak 

Magazine, and Harvard graduate with a B.A. in psychology —yes, Ivy League fancy—but his story starts far from privilege. Damien grew up in Chicago, Illinois in an underserved neighborhood, but with the support of a loved one and a lot of self-described luck, and an unwavering pursuit of education, Damien set himself on an expansive new path. From environmental policy to high-end media, from public service to cultural commentary, Damien has lived a truly miraculous and uncommon journey—one that blends grit, intellect, and relentless purpose, shaping a truly unique and important perspective. 

About the Episode: 

In today’s episode we dig into the mental toll and strategic insights that come from living in multiple worlds. You will learn how intense stress, financial disadvantage, and community decay can lead to unrivaled resilience and growth, but more commonly end in tragedy, and what you can do to be or support an expansion of the former, and lessening of the latter.. We get tactical, discussing how being militant with your calendar freedom, especially in high-stakes service work. How stepping outside the noise of cancel culture can lead to better well-being and clearer purpose, and how to be a force to educate rather than condemn, understand rather than judge, and fuel collective healing over self-righteous noise.Damien shares his perspective on nihilism as a precursor to purpose, and opens up about a career-ending mistake that, in hindsight, became the doorway to the life he was actually meant to live. This conversation is raw, deeply human, and packed with wisdom for anyone trying to make a difference without losing themselves in the process.

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Guest/Episode Intro

· [00:05:05] Origin Story

· [00:10:38] Circumstance as a Superpower and Hindrance 

· [00:13:12] The Average Outcome 

· [00:15:30] Grandma: Someone who gave a sh*t

· [00:16:55] The Jump(s) to Harvard  

· [00:20:24] Testing Boundaries of Self and Space: Full Sparkle Pony 

· [00:23:30] Planning is a Privilege: Survival Grows Skills 

· [00:28:08] Avoiding Survivorship Bias 

· [00:29:40] Inflection Points

· [00:31:48] Mind, Body, Spirit

· [00:34:00] The Perfect as the Enemy of Good 

· [00:35:50] Creating Balanced Experiences 

· [00:39:42] Meticulous Planning for More Freedom

· [00:42:15] Also Doing Nothing ~

· [00:43:00] SPONSOR: SkyRun Vacation Rentals

· [00:43:50] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

· [00:46:10] Scandal as a Path to Self Reckoning

· [00:49:45] The Stages of Scandal Grief 

· [00:52:10] Switching from Showing to Being

· [00:53:00] Public Perception Inhibiting Individual Growth 

· [00:54:50] Punishment vs. Accountability 

· [01:00:14] When Centering Yourself is a Distraction 

· [01:03:30] Where is the Attack/Trigger Coming from? 

· [01:07:30] Final question: The Impact of Support 

· [01:50:47] “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [01:51:25] Sponsor: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

Key References and Resources Mentioned:

· [00:31:48] The Aspen Idea: Mind, Body, Spirit

· [01:05:15] Terry Cruise Podcast Interview 

Where to Find Damien Williamson:

• LinkedIn
• Premiums for the Planet 
  
  

Where to Find Host Skippy Mesirow:

• Receive Support at the Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com
• Follow on Instagram www.instagam.com/skippymesirow
• Book a free Clarity Call https://calendly.com/skippymesirow/elc-clarity-call  to see if coaching is right for you

Episode Sponsor:

Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com (ELC)

Helping You Heal Our Politics

The Elected Leaders Collective (ELC) organization is the leading US-based provider of mental well-being training for public servants, conducted by public servants and the world's best mental health and human optimization professionals. With ELC Training, you will learn to rise above and become the political healer you were meant to be, improving your well-being in the process.

Website: ElectedLeadersCollective.com

Contact the HOP Team:

Do you have an episode idea?

Want to suggest a guest?

Can you provide critical feedback?

We'd love to hear from you!

Contact our team at [email protected]

Your input helps us create content that matters.

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:
Melissa Stangl is the Founding Partner and COO of Soltara, Shipibo-based Ayahuasca healing centers in Costa Rica and Peru, where indigenous wisdom meets western medical support to foster life-changing transformations. Melissa holds a Master's Degree in Biomedical Engineering from the University of Pennsylvania, where she developed a strong foundation in science and engineering that would later inform her work in the plant medicine space. Before co-founding Soltara, Melissa served as Operations Manager and Director of Business Development at a top-rated healing center in Peru, gaining years of on-the-ground experience and a deep understanding of plant medicine’s benefits. Her work also includes coordinating scientific studies, expanding public awareness, thought projects like helping to produce a documentary about war veterans with PTSD, and raising funds to support sustainable projects, like installing solar panels in the Amazon village of Libertad. Additionally, Melissa is a forthcoming author, with her book, Roots of Consciousness: A Modern Skeptic's Journey into Plant Medicine & Psychedelic Science, which is available for pre-order now! Melissa is a passionate advocate for bridging the gap between Western medicine and the transformative power of traditional indigenous healing traditions and practices, and an Elected Leaders Collective board member.

About the Episode: 

If psychedelics are a new topic for you, this is the episode for you, designed to be an entry point for public servants. In this episode, we dive into foundational fluencies: What are plant medicines? What’s happening in current research around treatment-resistant PTSD, depression, anxiety, and addiction? How do we begin to decode statements like "the plants called me to this work" in concrete, understandable terms? We explore the structure these medicines require, including the integration of ancient and modern traditions, the contrast between reductionist and holistic models of health, and the cultural awareness and responsibilities involved in this space. We talk about how to face uncomfortable conversations, how to stay resourced while under stress, and why this kind of work, even if you never come near a psychedelic in your life, offers deeply transferable knowledge for leaders, change-makers, and humans navigating this complex world. This isn't a how-to guide or a policy debate. It’s an invitation to demystify, to explore, and to reflect. I hope you enjoy this curious, thought-provoking, and heartfelt conversation with Melissa Stangl. 

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Episode/Guest Intro

· [00:07:20] Part of the Kaleidoscope of Care 

· [00:08:12] Winding Path to Peru 

· [00:09:50] The Basics: What is a Psychedelic?

· [00:12:17] Disrupting Default Perspectives: Making New Connections 

· [00:13:10] Conscious Access to Your Inner Landscape

· [00:14:20] Drugs: Tylenol, Caffeine, Banana, etc. 

· [00:15:05] Chemicals in the Brain 

· [00:17:10] Brain Says: “Dog = Dangerous” 

· [00:18:39] Why Care About Plant/Psychedelic Medicine? 

· [00:20:00] The Reductionist Western Medical Model

· [00:22:33] Parallel Perspective: Integration is Essential 

· [00:25:30] “Self vs. Self”  

· [00:26:57] Reductionist vs. Holistic 

· [00:27:42] A Detour Through the Forest 

· [00:32:45] Modalities of Healing that Must be Explored 

· [00:35:20] What is Oni/Ayahuasca? 

· [00:38:23] The Importance/Science of the Brew 

· [00:39:32] An Entourage of Alkaloids 

· [00:40:27] A Master Plant Teacher 

· [00:41:14] A Pause to Address the Skeptics 

· [00:43:00] Kené & Icaro

· [00:48:05] Is it “Woo Woo” or Simply AS Magical as ALL Science!?! 

· [00:52:25] It's not just about the Ayahuasca

· [00:54:51] An Open Mind Can’t Hurt

· [00:56:07] Suspending Disbelief & Welcoming Curiosity 

· [00:58:23] Soltara Experience Play-by-Play

· [00:59:05] Intake Process 

· [00:59:55] Preparation 

· [01:01:29] Retreats

· [01:02:15] Ceremonies 

· [01:02:25] About Vomitivo

· [01:06:20] Individual Consultation 

· [01:06:30] Group Shares, or “Sharimonies”

· [01:06:50] Integration Workshops 

· [01:07:20] The Pillars of Soltara: A Bridge to Back Home

· [01:07:55] SPONSOR: SkyRun Vacation Rentals

· [01:08:50] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com) 

· [01:11:33] TEASER ALERT! : Roots of Consciousness by Melissa Stangl

· [01:13:19] Healing Emotional Wounds & Physical Manifestations 

· [01:16:19] Starting from a Scientific Understanding

· [01:19:08] Melissa Meets Mushrooms 

· [01:20:43] The Larger Theme 

· [01:22:35] “From the Bowels of the Internet My Life Sprang Forth!”

· [01:24:45] Risk is in Relation

· [01:27:50] Following Intuition: Planting The Seed 

· [01:29:08] Daniel Cleland 

· [01:31:43] From the Brink of Something Dark to Leaping in Faith 

· [01:35:26] Shifting Gears to Yester-Year

· [01:37:32] Remembering the Dread

· [01:40:00] Growing Into Soltara: Honoring Traditions & Furthering Integration

· [01:42:55] The Spiral Process of Healing 

· [01:49:09] Preparedness Paired w/ Trusting Support 

· [01:53:03] Collaborating Instead of Competing 

· [01:57:10] Applying Learnings to Service 

· [01:59:35] The Ritual & Practicality of Setting Intention 

· [02:07:18] A Productive Environment for Collective Action

· [02:12:00] Set the Table!: Invest in the Soil 

· [02:13:30] Techniques for Grounding 

· [02:16:45] Finding a Working Dose & Tuning In 

· [02:19:45] The Grounding Touch 

· [02:21:22] Orientation for Our Mammalian Brains 

· [02:26:04] Self Contact for Somatic Relief 

· [02:29:04] Honoring Traditional Practices: Cultural Bridgework 

· [02:34:58] The Bullet Points on a Respectful Approa...

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life, and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

In our 2nd *EPISODE-LETTE* Join us for this quick 15-minute IG LIVE based HOP hot take, with Allison Ralph (forgive the IG LIVE audio quality and join us on a full production episode for the dulcet tones of our guest's voices)

Allison Ralph has spent decades studying religion, history, the openness and closeness or society, and it's relationship to human well-being, progress, and conflict.

We Talk About:
⛪️ RELIGION, HISTORY, SOCIETY, CONFLICT, & PROGRESS 🕍

🎙️**The first few minutes have a bit of audio distortion, so fast-forward to a few minutes in for a clean stream!**  🦁❤️

Where to Find Host Skippy Mesirow:

• Receive Support at the Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com
• Follow on Instagram www.instagam.com/skippymesirow
• Book a free Clarity Call https://calendly.com/skippymesirow/elc-clarity-call  to see if coaching is right for you

Episode Sponsor:

Elected Leaders Collective ElectedLeadersCollective.com (ELC)

Helping You Heal Our Politics

The Elected Leaders Collective (ELC) organization is the leading US-based provider of mental well-being training for public servants, conducted by public servants and the world's best mental health and human optimization professionals. With ELC Training, you will learn to rise above and become the political healer you were meant to be, improving your well-being in the process.

Website: ElectedLeadersCollective.com

Contact the HOP Team:

Do you have an episode idea?

Want to suggest a guest?

Can you provide critical feedback?

We'd love to hear from you!

Contact our team at [email protected]

Your input helps us create content that matters.

Welcome to the Healing Our Politics Podcast!

Join Our Community and Receive Free Tools + How to Guides:

Join “The Leader’s Handbook” newsletter https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about

·  Always free

·  Once per month email

·  Curated selection of tools, techniques, and practices discussed on this podcast

·  Delivered in simple to follow how-to-guides

·  To try and test in your life and teach your teams.

JOIN HERE https://leadershandbook.substack.com/about 

Guest:

Michael Drakovic is a social practitioner, creative producer, and democracy advocate on a mission to create a more participatory democracy. He is a dual graduate, MPA/MBA, of the Harvard Kennedy School of Government and MIT Sloan School of Management, and is  currently a PhD student in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness at the California Institute of Integral Studies researching the relationship between society and spirituality. Michael is not just about degrees and credentials—he is adoer! He is the Founder and Lead Collaborator at Common Light, a consultancy for renewing human agreements, as well as a co-founder of the state legislative resource Democracy Policy Network and co-lead of Los Angeles for Democracy Vouchers and the citizens’ assembly project Public Democracy Los Angeles. Previously, Michael founded the digital studio Ovrture, where he managed creative campaigns at Bono’s antipoverty advocacy group The ONE Campaign, where he worked on the 2010 and 2011 U2 360° North America Tours. 

About the Episode: 

In this very special episode, I sit down with public servant and Renaissance man, Michael Draskovic. Michael was my very first one-on-one coaching client, so this conversation holds a deep personal significance for me. We talk about how to overcome the fear of "not enoughness" and break through to self-assurance. Michael opens up about his experience as a closeted gay man and the shadows and light that have shaped his life and service. We also explore the dynamics of fame and access, sharing a practical guide to navigating high-profile relationships while staying AUTHENTIC to the projects you are leading. Citing Michael’s first-hand experience, you will feel empowered to explore these avenues in your own initiatives. We also talk about how his daily practices, like meditation, have blossomed new ways of thinking and leading: reducing partisanship, and leading by listening to shape an environment where everyone’s needs are respected and considered. Plus, Michael shares his insights into participatory democracy, and co-governance: providing ways that leaders like you can test these waters in your own communities while growing confidence and support. PACKED with wisdom and ACTIONABLE takeaways, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to foster a democracy founded on common ground and co-governance nurtured by many voices.   

Key Topics Discussed:

· [00:02:40] Guest/Episode Introduction

· [00:08:45] The Grey Shoes Story 

· [00:11:18] Awareness vs. Embodiment 

· [00:12:40] Lacking Self-Assurance and Belonging 

· [00:14:50] Spiritual Abuse & the Lasting Trauma

· [00:17:50] The Intrinsic Desire to Cocreate

· [00:19:17] Michael’s Creative and Political Influences 

· [00:21:20] Rethinking Policy: Diverse Voices and Recognizing Community Potential 

· [00:27:40] Cafes and Porn Stars: A *messy* Introduction to Politics

· [00:30:35] Michael and The ONE Campaign 

· [00:32:45] A little Shop Talk about the ONE Campaign Structure 

· [00:33:55] Influence and Power Dynamics that come with a Rockstar 

· [00:37:42]’ The NRA for the World’s Poor’

· [00:38:50] Making the Most/Avoiding Pitfalls when working with a high-profile Advocate

· [00:40:44] The Resurrection of George Washington! (A Casual Example) 

· [00:42:14] The Pope, The Quakers, and Institutional Potential 

· [00:44:50] SPONSOR: SkyRun Vacation Rentals

· [00:45:45] SPONSOR: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com) 

· [00:48:05] We Can’t Open Hearts by Just Thinking About It

· [00:50:25] Leading with Action with Chi Chi Ossé

· [00:53:30] It's Not About George 

· [00:56:10] What Lit Michael’s Fire 

· [01:00:57] Get Involved to Fight Fatalism, Recognizing it's a Privilege

· [01:03:04] It Will Never Be the Perfect Time to Fix the System 

· [01:04:43] Meditation to Reduce Partisanship

· [01:06:00] Seeing In Many Dimensions

· [01:07:35] Owning One’s Flaws 

· [01:08:48] The Forest

· [01:10:25] One New Hire Can’t Save All

· [01:13:55] Taking the Practice into the Room 

· [01:14:30] “The Softest Voice” 

· [01:16:25] From Polarizing to Polarity: What We Can Agree On

· [01:20:52] Reimagining Political Wisdom with Many Diverse Voices 

· [01:22:21] Starting Small with Civilian Group Policy Making 

· [01:26:44] The Strategy and Goals of Assemblies

· [01:28:40] What’s In the Works?

· [01:30:44] Inner Work and Policy Work 

· [01:32:17] Spaces of Exploration and Development

· [01:33:28] Holding an Object in Your Mind 

· [01:37:00] Final Question: “What We Lose In Power We Gain in Legitimacy” 

· [01:38:00]  “The Leader’s Handbook” (https://www.healingourpolitics.com/#newsletter) Newsletter

· [01:39:10] Sponsor: SkyRun Vacation Rentals

· [01:40:05] Sponsor: ELC (https://www.electedleaderscollective.com)

Key References and Resources Mentioned:

· [00:00:01] SkyRun Vacation Rentals

· [00:00:00] Common Light 

· [00:23:55] Community Crisis Response in New Jersey

· [00:27:10] LA’s Neighborhood Council System 

· [00:30:35] The ONE Campaign 

· [00:35:04]