The Cosmic Current: Weekly Conversations With Experts In Spirituality and Divination

Hi Numerologist community, thank you once again for joining me for another episode of the Numerologist Podcast.

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Here’s what we discuss:

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As a thank you for joining us here on the Numerologist Podcast, we’re giving you access to a very special video report which delves into the deepest levels of your numerology chart to help you understand who you are.

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Hi Numerologist community, thank you once again for joining me for another episode of the Numerologist Podcast.

In this episode, we’re joined once again by our resident numerology expert, Roy Kirkland, to discuss the Expression Number.

Listen below or on your favorite platform…

Show Links

As a thank you for joining us here on the Numerologist Podcast, we’re giving you access to a very special video report which delves into the deepest levels of your numerology chart to help you understand who you are.

https:/video.numerologist.com

Full Transcript

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Numerologist Podcast, where we bring you a very special guest every week to help guide you on your spiritual journey, live with abundance, and inspire your soul.

Rose:

Hi Numerologist fans. Welcome back to another episode of the Numerologist Podcast with me, your host, Rose from numerologist.com. And we’re back once again with our favorite numerologist, Roy. Hey Roy.

Roy:

Hey, how are you?

Rose:

Very well, thank you. Now we’re actually going to go into quite a big topic today. We’re going to be talking about the expression number. So I’m really excited to learn all about the expression number, and we’ll have a few other episodes as well that go into a bit more detail about this topic. But for now, let’s look at the expression 101. So what is the expression number?

Read more: The Birthday Number Explained With Roy Kirkland

Roy:

Well let’s talk about it like this. The expression is the numerological sum of the heart’s desire, also known as the soul urge, which is the sum of the vowels, and the personality number, which is the sum of the consonants, which means it’s actually the sum of all the letters in your name. But at the same time, it’s really a lot more than that. There’s a principle called synergy that we use a lot in modern philosophy and physics and stuff like that, that means the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In other words, you can’t tell what an automobile does or what it’s actually for or how it works if you have every single separate part spread out on a lawn or something. It’s not until you put it together that it becomes an automobile. Otherwise, it’s just something that’s a bunch of parts.

In other words, the whole idea of synergy is that a complete thing does something more and sometimes different than what the assemblage of the parts can do. Now the body is like that. The human being is a synergetic unit. If you separate the heart, the liver, the kidneys, they each have their own functions, but at the same time if you put everything together, all the nerves and electrical signals and all that stuff together, then you have a person. So in other words, everybody on a sports team will have different specialty moves and skills, and even different functions on a sports team, but the athletes’ ability to function together is what makes the team, is what wins or loses the game. You see what I mean?

And so synergy explains what the all encompassing nature of number nine is like too. In the old numerology books, they used to always say it’s all-encompassing, meaning that it carries a little bit of everything from one through eight in its job. That’s why in real old numerology books, especially in the Calvian numerology, they don’t assign any letter to nine because they say that the number nine is reserved for God. And it’s a very interesting system of numerology. Even though it’s very old school, it works very well today.

Rose:

Yeah, okay. Hey Roy, I’m going to have to get you to maybe change your headset. It keeps clicking. It keeps going in and out. Do you have a different, whatever you were using last week?

Roy:

Yeah, I could do that. I don’t know why that is. It might be because the [inaudible 00:04:09] software is updating or something. So let me switch over to the [inaudible 00:04:13].

Rose:

Okay cool, thank you.

Roy:

It will only take a minute.

Rose:

Roy, it’s really funny you mentioned about all the pieces to the puzzle sort of laid out on the ground there, and it all has to sort of come together. I feel like sometimes that’s my life, and I think a lot of people would also feel a bit like that as well. So let’s talk about the expression number and how it brings all that together. So what is the expression number?

Roy:

Okay. The expression, I like to use this phrase to describe it. It’s about you as a human doing rather than a human being. In other words, it’s about what you bring to the table. It’s about your contribution to the world around you and the way the world reflects your contribution back to you. Some people call this paramount. For instance, in other words, you give to the world and the world gives back, and that’s what the expression talks about. It contains all the little tells. You know that expression called tells that we use for people playing poker or something like that?

Rose:

Yeah.

Roy:

Little give away signs that lets others know when you’re in a mood.

Rose:

Absolutely.

Roy:

It holds all your skills and talents, and maybe some that you haven’t explored yet at hand, but when they’re needed, it’s like a monitor on a computer that turns the millions of internal electronic processes and their interactions into a YouTube video, a document you’re working on, or connects you to others through the social network. In other words, we don’t do anything with those computers that isn’t analogous to something that happens within ourselves. And the expression is sort of like the interface between you and the rest of the world by way of the internet. The expression is an action. It’s not a name for something. If you think about it, express is a verb. Sometimes we use it as a noun when we order express shipping, meaning you better hurry up and get it here, but it’s not a name for something. It’s more of a verb. It’s an action. It’s about how we express ourselves and how our expression affects other people. And consequently, they process it and it’s about how their return of that expression affects us.

Rose:

Right. Okay, well that’s interesting, that sort of perspective on it. It sounds like it’s more than just a combination of the heart’s desire and the personality numbers though. So can you expand on that a little bit?

Roy:

Yeah. Yeah. Let’s get a little more in depth about that. It’s more than just a combination of the personality and the soul urge. A more wholistic picture of a person’s individual psychological makeup is involved here. And let me explain a couple of important terms that I know and that I think in terms of. You don’t have to see it this way, but from the standpiont of Jungian psychology, the psychology of Carl Jung, the ego is what protects us from the personal and collective unconscious. In other words, all these thoughts we have in our own subconscious, some of them we’re aware of, and some of them we aren’t. It’s usually the ones that we aren’t aware of that cause problems for us in our life. Complexes and things like that.

And also, there’s a collective unconscious. There’s things in the mind that we share with all human beings. Sometimes they’re just in a little cultural bubble, or in little family bubble, or a historical bubble, but nevertheless, these are collective ideas as opposed to personal thoughts. It’s the primary force that protects the self against most of our own thoughts too, that could cause us harm if we persist in them, and whether or not they are our own or come from other people or self-damaging fantasizes that exist in myths, stories, and ideas that are part of the collective mind that we share with others. An example of that is what they call a Cinderella complex. When somebody just wishes that a fairy godmother would come along and introduce them to a prince. Or when they say somebody is looking for Mr. Goodbar is a more verdant expression for that.

Read more: How The Universe Is Rooting For You (& Why It Means You Won’t Fail This Week)

So when people think of the ego as a person’s overinflated image of themselves, they’re talking about that person being possessed by a sense of grandiosity. In other words, they think they’re bigger and better than they actually are. That’s what we generally call the ego. Saying the person has a big ego, that’s not necessarily true. The person has an overinflated sense of grandiosity. That kind of character defect is clearly seen in the expression. But as a result of a problem at the level of the personality number, which is where psychologists, spiritual healers, and self-help guides and all that kind of stuff, they all work on the level of the personality number. So the ego shares energies and forces of both the heart’s desire and the personality, because it’s trying to protect that deepest inner level of the self from the damage that can be caused by all the stuff in the environment, sort of like the ego is the part of us that puts on the sunblock and so on before we go into the regular environment to keep ourselves from getting too many UV rays and stuff like that.

So the self image is another aspect of the expression. It’s a term that a lot of meditators, especially those in Buddhist traditions and books on mindfulness call the self-image, the part of us that reviews ourselves. It forms our personalities and analyzes the world on both an emotional and rational level. It’s where the ideas about a person’s styles of behavior, including speech, appearance, and so on come from. In other words, the self-image is the you that you like to be, or that you want to be, or that you try to be. It’s also constantly analyzing possible threats and sends that information to the deepest level of the self so it can send out the defensive forces of the ego to combat that kind of stress. It also has a direct line to ego, as I just mentioned, and connects the personality and the heart’s desire numbers.

It’s our inner critic, but it can also be our internal cheering squad. This is what I call in a lot of my writing the internal guidance system, or your energetic guidance system. That which leads you to, or tries to lead you to where you want to go. Sometimes we just override it because it’s like your friend, say your best friend wants to go mountain climbing or something, and you just dread the idea. It might actually be a good thing for you to do, but if you just dread the idea, you’re not going. And there might be a good reason for that. It might be that your energetic guidance system is trying to keep you from causing yourself trouble or harm. It’s through the self-image that we encounter most of our problems, but it’s also the part of us that attaches meaning to life, meaning to our experience, and lets us know what makes us feel happy and fulfilled. It’s more like an acting coach than it is like anything else. An acting coach who teaches you how to respond to a director of a play or whatever.

The expression is guided by the self-image and the needs of the ego, but is partly explained by the heart’s desire and the personality numbers. That’s kind of a way of breaking down what the expression actually is into… How do I put it? Understandable chunks or pieces where there actually are no pieces in us. But it’s an easy way for us to understand what’s going on within ourselves and around us. And this is one of the things I like about numerology so much, because the chunks are so much bigger than they are in like astrology or some of the other methods of studying the personality, or even in psychology. It’s easier to understand than that because we’re looking at three big chunks here, three big pieces. And all of these things are different ways of describing facets of the human personality, but all these descriptions are in reality just one thing, the expression itself.

Rose:

Sorry Roy, I couldn’t get myself off mute. Well that all sounds like a lot.

Roy:

Yeah, well I knew this would be a little complicated, but it’s really not that complicated. If you think of the expression as the key number of the individual self and like the life path, as like the key number of the environment, then it becomes a lot easier. Okay?

Rose:

All right, so can you give us a brief example of how this works in personal numerology? Because I’m sure a lot of people listening to this want to know how it works for them.

Roy:

Yeah. Yeah. Well let’s do that by giving you an example. And I’ve wrote up a brief essay about this guy for the blog. It’s Elon Musk, who’s often called a visionary genius. We know that he is a genius, without a doubt. His car company, Tesla, is the most valuable car company in the world. As a matter of fact, last week it beat Toyota in market cap and now has a larger market cap than the next six companies below it, which are Toyota, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Ferrari, and somebody else who I don’t remember off hand, but anyway, it’s worth more than all of them combined. He’s building a tunnel under Los Angeles for a super fast train to run on magnetic repulsion. His rockets and space capsules are proven to lift multiple astronauts into space at like a tenth of the cost or the danger of the space shuttle. And all of that is part of his project to build a human habit on Mars. I don’t know what he’s going to do about the radiation up there, but nevertheless, this is a guy that’s taking us into outer space with a private company.

And we look at his numbers, and we see his soul urge, or the heart’s desire, as being a total of five. A five is a trend setter. A trend setter is a person who is always ahead of the game, who other people are following. And this is a perfect example of a five. If you’ve ever seen him on an interview, you know he’s a really relaxed kind of guy who at least to enjoy himself, which is another aspect of five, and that he’s always one step ahead of the critics. He’s at the cutting edge of today’s technology, and waiting for the world to catch up with him. All of these attributes are normally associated with a five. His personality number is six. His vision of electrical power for the world, high-speed automatic transportation, and other projects and ideas that he’s basically described for building harmony within the environment, comfort within the home, and he’s well-known for his love of children. All of these are different attributes of six, his personality, his personality number.

So we add five and six together, and what do we get? We get 11. That’s the expression. Some numerology books call this the master psychic, or the visionary, which is the name that I prefer. It’s the mark of someone who celebrates their own uniqueness, is charismatic, and finds it easy to influence others. In one interview, he even described himself as a kind of a wizard. And in my opinion, he’s living the 11 life better than almost anybody I can think of, except for maybe Tony Robbins, who also has a lot of 11 in his chart. But at any rate, I picked him because his name is short, but the numerology of it is very clear and on target about what we see of him on TV and on the web, in the news, et cetera. In other words, he’s a pure example, an excellent example of what an expression number is all about.

Rose:

You know Roy, I really love it when somebody is sort of that mysterious kind of person, but their numbers just reveal everything about them. It’s so good.

Read more: Why Your Personality Number Will Help You Navigate Momentous Changes In You Life!

Roy:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right, exactly, and it’s the same thing for all of us. Whatever our expression number comes out to be reveals something about our character that is so central to the behavior and so on and so forth. So at any rate, yeah. Yeah, he’s a good example.

Rose:

Absolutely. But it just makes me ask a different question. I thought we were working with single digit numbers here.

Roy:

Yeah. Well I usually describe a lot of single digit numbers in my writings in blog posts and so on, even though I’ve started to work with these master numbers and karmic numbers and so on and so forth, I do that to keep beginners from getting thrown off by the fanciful descriptions of these master numbers and karmic numbers on the internet and in books on numerology, because they says all sorts of things that just aren’t realistic about these. And to me, the idea of calling them master numbers is kind of silly, because what are they masters of? They’re not prime numbers or anything. But anyway, for the expression number, like the life path, we’re kind of obligated to use the bigger numbers. Unlike the life path, however, we often see the higher master numbers like 33, 44, and others in the expression because names can be very long. And those long names, like a name that totals up, when you total up all the alphabet values, can easily total up to 44 or 55 or 33, and so on and so forth.

So like in Elon’s case, even though is 11 describes what he does and his behavior, you can also see the two in some of his interviews where he appears to be an unassuming and reasonable person, but he really sticks to his guns when it comes to what he’s doing and how hard it is to influence his ideas and so on and so forth, without being stubborn like a four. But that’s the sign of a really high level two. And that often comes when that 11 is subdivided down into a two.

He’s even made comments like he thought that the Tesla stock was too expensive. This was back in May of this year. And the date that he did that was on the first of May. Now five plus one equals six, which is one of the components of his personality number. And then at 8:11 in the morning, California time, was when he said this. So there’s the 11 coming back again. And then they made a five for one split, which was announced on August the 11th. So here we have 8/11 coming a couple of times, and so these kind of things are not coincidences, even though they may look like them on the surface. They’re not coincidences. I have to wonder whether it was strategic planning on his end because he knows something about this, or whether it’s just the magic of the soul urge number. I just don’t know. I can’t tell.

Rose:

Absolutely.

Roy:

That’s not important. That’s genius [inaudible 00:23:30].

Rose:

And my next question is going to be a little bit of a tangent, but it’s a bit of a personal question to you, because it sounds like you really like Elon Musk, but I’m curious, do you follow him because his numerology is so fascinating?

Roy:

No. It’s not like I’m a fanboy or something. I read a lot of financial news though, and he’s constantly in it, and I can’t get [inaudible 00:24:03].

Rose:

So let’s talk about, I know you’ve mentioned this before, but just for our listeners who are a bit confused about what it is, what is the subtotal?

Roy:

Okay. Now sometimes we have a name that’s much longer than Elon Musk’s name, and it comes to a very high compound number, like say 46 to 73 or something like that. And many of us numerologists like to look at that high compound number, which is the subtotal, before you finally reduce it to a single digit number, because it has something to say about the character of a person as well. For instance, if a person’s name totaled up to, say, 45, well we know that means they’re going to be a nine, but it’s a four and five nine as opposed to a seven and a two nine, which makes for kind of a difference in the character. Like the four and five would be more of a hard working kind of idealistic person who will not put that hammer down no matter how hard the foreman tries to tell him, “Hey look, the house is built. You don’t need to hold the hammer anymore.” But these things have a lot to tell us about the influences, the conflicts in the individual’s life that are more obvious to others than the expression number itself. But this will also be a topic of future posts on the expression and talks when we’re covering famous people and stuff like that. But there are a lot of ways of breaking the expression down into chunks that work well, okay?

Rose:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.

Roy:

Yeah, and these subtotals, just one of them.

Rose:

And I actually think that’s quite an important thing to note, because there’s only a finite number of numbers that we actually attribute to ourselves in our expression number, personality number, all those different things. But looking at the subtotal is, the one single digit or master number that you come to when you’ve totaled everything down is kind of the surface, and you’re just kind of scratching underneath the surface with that subtotal, aren’t you?

Roy:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Exactly. Exactly. And the subtotal comes from not even paying attention to the personality and the soul urge. It’s when you just total up all the letters straight across, all the letter values straight across, and you come to the subtotal first before you come to the whatchamacallit. So it’s more of a component of the way that the name is actually spelled and so on and so forth than either the soul urge or the personality is. Those are separating those components into two categories. So it’s specific to the expression. It doesn’t make much of a difference in the soul urge or the personality number, I’ve found in my own research, but it is specific to the expression, and it’s something that we ought to pay attention to when we’re doing readings or we’re trying to understand our own expression numbers.

Rose:

Absolutely. That’s a super interesting point, actually. I just want to go back a step, because usually at this point during the podcast, we would have told our listeners how to actually calculate their expression numbers. So we’ve heard about the numbers that are allocated to Elon Musk’s name, but how can our listeners figure out which numbers are allocated to the letters in their name?

Roy:

Oh yeah, no problem. There are a couple of ways of doing that. The first way is by breaking down the soul urge and the personality. The soul urge, you just total up all to vowels, and I believe you should include Y as a vowel in numerology, because the way we use it in the English language and the way it’s used in many other languages, it only has a vowel sound. The only time you shouldn’t use a Y is when it’s totally silent, and you don’t find that in English. But anyway, we have the vowels, we add them up and see what we get in order to know the soul urge, and then we add up the consonants, like B, D, and so on to find the personality number. And then when we get those two numbers, we add them together. Okay?

Rose:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Roy:

Now sometimes the soul urge and the personality might be a master number, but the sum of them changes it to not be a master number, and that has a lot to say in itself. Like say for instance a person has a soul urge number as 11, and a personality number as, say, six. That means that they’re going to be an eight. Yeah, they’re going to be a 17, eight by way of the expression number. But it also means that the soul urge has a lot more emphasis in this person’s life. In other words, the seven is kind of a quiet number, which means its personality is likely to be kind of quiet. So a person like that might be an actual genius at something, but because the eight is the expression, he may try to downplay that inventiveness and so on and so forth. It’s like a story I read just the other day about this guy and his wife who won over… Oh what was it? Something like $32 million in the Michigan State Lottery, and the way they did it was because this guy discovered a pattern in the lottery. He’s a mathematician.

Rose:

Oh wow.

Roy:

Yeah. They own a convenience store, but he went through several other jobs doing this, that, and the other, because there aren’t that many great jobs out there for a mathematician.

Rose:

Exactly.

Roy:

But that’s what his degree is in, and so on and so forth. Yeah. It’s like that. It’s like that’s the kind of thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if that turned out to be his numerology. But anyway…

Rose:

Yeah. Absolutely. So we’ll also put some links to a couple of blogs that our listeners can read and go and have a look at which numbers are allocated to which letters as well so they can see that in front of them, because sometimes it’s a bit difficult to listen to and try and figure out when you’re listening to a podcast. But anyway, let’s move on. So I just want to talk about the name table that you’ve talked about in the past. So what is that?

Roy:

Oh yeah. This is one of my favorite subjects. Well gosh, I say that so many times. I think everything is my favorite subject. But anyway, I like to call it the inclusion table. Some people call it that. Many people call it the karma table, most of the new age people, because they believe it’s something that’s carried over from previous lifetimes or something like that. But the inclusion table, I like to call it that because it has to do with how many of the nine numbers are included into your name. The way you make that is you make a grid of nine boxes, like a tic-tac-toe board, and they represent the top, the nine numbers. So across the top row, you write how many ones you have, how many twos you have, how many threes you have, and then you analyze that.

This inclusion table not only gives you a lot of information about the person’s life. For instance, I know a person who has basically one five in their inclusion table and a whole bunch of ones, and about three twos and so on and so forth, and this is a person who has no… How do I put it? Struggle to be personally free of traditions and stuff like that in their lives. They’re okay with everything that’s gone on before, or the cultural stuff that they do and so on and so forth. They’re okay with it all. It doesn’t bother them. But what that one, it causes a conflict, because there’s so many ones, there’s like the strong sense of self and self-importance that goes along with this. Anyway, explaining the table as a whole is something that we don’t have time for in this podcast, but we will do it in the future. But let’s just say that having explored thousands of these tables, I want to let you know that I don’t read someone’s chart without exploring this inclusion table, because it is so important for understanding the way that their name works. It’s like the amount of each of the nine numbers in the name.

Like for instance, in Elon’s chart, he has no letters with the value of seven, eight, or nine unless we count his middle name, which is Reeve, and then we get that R, which means one nine. But no sevens or eights. Now there’s so many people out there who think that no eights means a bad chart for money. Elon Musk is the fifth richest person in the world right now. He just passed Bill Gates, so I think he may have gone up a rank since he decided he was moving to Texas. But in other words, he’s not broke. He doesn’t have a bad chart for money. He had struggles when he was getting started. He and his brother used to sleep in the little office that they rented because he couldn’t afford an apartment. That was before he invented PayPal and so on, or the company that eventually became PayPal. But I don’t think that this idea that no eights means having a bad time with money makes any sense. In other words, I don’t think his prosperity consciousness is lacking. Even though there aren’t any eights there, even though he started with very little by today’s standards, he has all the passion and drive it takes to attract the billions needed to build a private space program. That’s amazing. And that’s his mindset and his attitude. He’s focused on what he does, not what he makes.

As a matter of fact, I was just reading an article about him the other day in the financial news about why he’s moving to Texas from California. He at once started selling off a bunch of his properties and so on out there, and he said, “I just don’t need them.” This is a something a person who had no eights in their chart would never do, and who had a bunch of eights in their chart would never do. He’s just like, “I don’t need them. It’s too much. It’s too much for me.” So he’s moving his family and part of his business to Texas. Why? Because there’s no capital gain stacks.

Rose:

That’s smart.

Roy:

Yeah. He’s using his mind, not his… How do I put it? Self-image to make his decisions, you know?

Rose:

Absolutely.

Roy:

It also gives us a lot of hidden numbers in the name that have special significance in the life. And let’s move on, because like I said, we’ll discuss this table in future podcasts, okay?

Rose:

Perfect. Now okay, you made me a promise to ask about the dynamic personal alphabet. Let’s talk about that.

Read more:  9 Amazing Reasons To Love Your Life Path 9 Bestie

Roy:

Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I’m going to talk about that. Now each of the letters in the expression constitutes a personal alphabet, and we read it dynamically. In other words, we read it by way of time in that the number associated with the letter marks off a number of years that each letter is active. For instance, A runs for one year when its cycle comes. The R runs for nine years when its cycle is running. And each name has its own cycle. So we consider each of them separately, as in several columns or several rows in order to make sums of the letters in the name. In other words, if you have a person who has no middle name, you just use the first name, you make a column of that, and the last name, and then sum the number in the first name and the number in the last name.

Okay, let’s take a person like Alan Alda, famous actor. If we had A as the first letter of the first name, and A as the first letter of the second name, that would mean that for one year, his first year of life, that the two ones would run concurrently, meaning that his first year would have had a two as a special number, which is something we’re going to be discussing in depth when we get to it, but let’s go back to Elon’s chart. The first letter of his first name is E, which is five, which will run for five years. The first number of his last name is M, which is four, which will run for four years. So the secret identity, or what else do I call it? The moving balance number becomes E and U for the fifth year of his life, and L and U for the sixth year of life. You see, because the number is always changing in both of them. And they always change on the birthday. That’s another trick to it that another people don’t get, because there’s a whole lot of… Let’s just say I’m doing a whole podcast on the subject of this, okay? And maybe two, because there are a lot of letters in the alphabet, and I’m going to explain them all.

Rose:

Perfect.

Roy:

Every 19 years, the cycle, we count up his first name, we have 19 years. 19 is the sum of the number of digits. Of the letters, I’m sorry, values in the first name. So that means every 19 years, after 19 years have elapsed, then the cycle of the first name will begin again. I’m pretty sure I did this on him with the podcast. So it’s not just that we get these different cycles and patterns of numbers that flow from the personal years and the life path cycles and the pinnacles and so on and so forth. We get them from the name by using this method of understanding the alphabet and what these alphabet cycles are in the person’s name. That’s why I’m doing a whole podcast, and as I said before, maybe two, because it’s so important. While the life path, different cycles that are generated from the life path, while they have plenty of value, they describe what’s going on around the person. But these name cycles describe, once again, the doings of the person, what they do. In other words, this is what generates the actions that cause the feedback from the universe that we get with the life path cycles.

So it becomes a complete method of prediction, a feedback loop that’s very easy to do once you get the basic ideas. That’s why I’m breaking these up into different pieces, so that the basics, the basics, the basics. I hammer that into all my astrology students, for instance, because these books that are out there, all the good books are the kind of books they used to give closed door to cycles in ancient times. Writing a book was not easy, so they didn’t spend the time to write a book that nobody could understand properly unless they had the basics hammered in over years and years and years of verbal practice. And that’s the same thing with numerology. These kind of ideas seem complicated on the surfaced, but once the basics are well-known, then they become so easy and so simple to understand. You see?

Rose:

Absolutely. Okay, so the expression is really something, it sounds like.

Roy:

Yeah.

Rose:

And actually, it makes me think that we talk about the life path number as being the most important number to know, but it sounds like the expression number is pretty important too.

Roy:

Oh yeah.

Rose:

So is there anything more you want to say in this podcast about the expression number?

Roy:

Well like with what you said a minute ago about it being pretty important too, it’s like balance in nature. If you consider that everything in life is a matter of give and take, in other words you have to give something in order to get something. If you want to grow a garden, you’ve got to give up the sweat and the money to buy the tools, and even the money to own the property and so on and so forth in order to dig up the ground, which takes more sweat, and plant the seeds, which takes patience. In other words, all of these things are what you surrender in order to have that beautiful garden grow. It’s just as important to the garden as the seeds and the weather. So everything is in balance in nature like that. And like if you consider as being like the take and you as being the give, and that these roles are constantly interchanging between the two, the expression is just as important. And both of them are supremely important to understand. From the life path, we get our time cycle, so environmental change. And when I say environment, I mean everything that’s not you yourself. And from the expression, we get all our action, and the feedback for our action that the environment gives us, it all works together in yin and yang kind of harmony due to difference.

But anyway, having described the expression and gone into some depth about its power and meaning, you can see that explaining the many ways to explore the power and value of the name numbers. Now this post will give you an overview of the expression that can help you know some of the fine points of analysis that we will be discussing on a regular basis in posts like these and in celebrity profiles and other types of blog posts. So for now, just focus on the fact that expression is about choice and character, whereas the life path is about opportunity and risk. And get ready for a continuing series about the expression. I think I’ve got three of them already done, and that’s without the alphabet considered. Okay?

Rose:

Oh wow, absolutely.

Roy:

So yeah, all the information that I briefly introduced you to in this introduction to the expression number and a lot more.

Rose:

Wow. Okay. Well I’m excited to listen to the next few podcasts, and listeners, make sure you subscribe to the podcast to make sure you get the podcast as soon as it comes out and as soon as it’s live. And I will also link the blog post that Roy is talking about in the show notes, so you can go there to check those out. Once again, Roy, thank you so much, and we’ll speak to you next time.

Roy:

Yeah, I’m looking forward to it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to the Numerologist Podcast. If you loved it, make sure you subscribe, and don’t forget to check the show notes for an extra special free gift.

Welcome back to the Numerologist podcast. I hope you’re all enjoying the festive period in the lead up to Christmas. I’m in Australia, so it’s always a hot Christmas for me but being from the Uk, I’m used to a cold one, so, if it’s chilly where you are, embrace that for me even it feels a little bit miserable for you.

This episode of the Numerologist podcast is a magickal one indeed.

Shawn Engel is the brand strategist and spiritual mentor behind, Witchy Wisdoms. She is the author of Cosmopolitan’s Love Spells (Sterling),  Power of Hex (Chicago Review Press), the upcoming Witches Brew (Sterling), and the matriarch of The Boss Mystic Podcast Network. She has successfully leveraged social media and currently has over 50k followers in her social community under the handle @witchywisdoms.

But the Shawn before the followers that we’ll explore today. Her story of how she embraced her magickal side to liberate her from a life of drugs and partying is one that you have to hear.

So, without further ado, let’s welcome Shawn to the show.

Related Podcast: A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE MADE JOHN HOLLAND REALIZE HIS TRUE CALLING

Related Podcast: How To Be Fine With Kristen Meinzer and Jolenta Greenberg

Here’s what we discuss:

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As a thank you for joining us here on the Numerologist Podcast, we’re giving you access to a very special video report which delves into the deepest levels of your numerology chart to help you understand who you are.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Numerologist Podcast, where we bring you a very special guest every single week to help guide you on your spiritual journey, live with abundance and inspire your soul.

Speaker 2:

Welcome back to the Numerologist podcast. I hope you’re all enjoying the festive period in the lead up to Christmas. I’m in Australia, so it’s always a hot Christmas for me but being from the Uk, I’m used to a cold one, so, if it’s chilly where you are, embrace that for me even it feels a little bit miserable for you.

This episode of the Numerologist podcast is a magickal one indeed.

Shawn Engel is the brand strategist and spiritual mentor behind, Witchy Wisdoms. She is the author of Cosmopolitan’s Love Spells (Sterling),  Power of Hex (Chicago Review Press), the upcoming Witches Brew (Sterling), and the matriarch of The Boss Mystic Podcast Network. She has successfully leveraged social media and currently has over 50k followers in her social community under the handle @witchywisdoms.

But the Shawn before the followers that we’ll explore today. Her story of how she embraced her magickal side to liberate her from a life of drugs and partying is one that you have to hear.

So, without further ado, let’s welcome Shawn to the show.

Hey, Shawn. Thanks for joining us.

Shawn:

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2:

I want to really explore your magical world because magic is always something that fascinates me so much. Before we get to what you do now, let’s take a look at your journey to actually getting there. How did it all start for you?

Shawn:

Oh, it’s a long story, long and arduous story with so many different evolutions. I’m a triple Scorpio, so it was definitely true to the brand but in terms of the magical beginnings, I was always a spooky kid.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Shawn:

[inaudible 00:00:55]. Right, making potions in the backyard with flowers and mud and going on those … You remember those old websites that had red font and bad like gifs and looking up spells and sitting on the floor in Barnes & Noble and looking up palmistry books and astrology books. My magical journey started there and just dabbling, not necessarily taking it seriously, I was however old I was 12, 13. What do you really take seriously then?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Shawn:

It was always part of me but after that, at a very young age, I got into lots of trouble. It was the era of sex and drugs. It was a really devastating decade of just way too much self-destruction. Again, quite Scorpio.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Shawn:

Right and so I did lose touch just a little bit with the magical side. And also, if you’re in that much self destruction and self harm, it’s really hard to reach for things that can benefit you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Shawn:

Right, it’s more of an ego attachment. Lost touch with it a little bit. And then fast forward over to, let’s say, I think I was 24 years old, so quite a few years ago. I got into therapy and got my tarot deck back out and the rest is history.

Speaker 2:

Right. I’m interested to explore that 13, 14 year old you. Did you ever … Because I’ve spoken to a few witches before but they feel like they’ve actually come out as a witch. Did you talk to people about it then? Did you tell people you were interested in that kind of thing or was it just one of those side things that was in the back of your mind?

Shawn:

I was never officially in the broom closet. It was always part of me but it was always … Again, I prided myself on being strange. Yeah, I did a spell or I was the one that introduced it to my friends who always gave a side eye but reluctantly did them with me.

Speaker 2:

That’s always the case, isn’t it? They think it’s weird but they actually get into it themselves.

Shawn:

Exactly. And my birthday is October 29th, so it’s always right by Halloween. Every birthday party we were doing seances. It was definitely part of my brand from a very [inaudible 00:03:13] age.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. What did your parents think of it?

Shawn:

They were like, it’s Shawn being Shawn.

Speaker 2:

Well, that was good.

Shawn:

I was really fortunate. My mother is of Jewish faith. My father is a German Catholic and they asked me and my sister when we were really young, what we wanted to study religiously, if we wanted to do either. And I was like, “I’m going to be a witch.”

And my sister was like, “I’m an Aquarius. I don’t care.”

Speaker 2:

And that’s really refreshing because a lot of people you talk to, their parents would not be as … Especially if they have their own faith, they would not be as open to things like that. That’s quite refreshing that you were able to explore what you wanted to explore.

Shawn:

I think I was super, super lucky that my parents were 80s punk rockers. My dad was had pink hair and was a drummer in a punk band and my mom was a groupie. They were always way more open but yeah, I’m absolutely so fortunate to have had that upbringing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. You said … Okay, when you were about 24, you brought your tarot deck out again. What happened then? What was the big change?

Shawn:

My big Tower moment, it was the catalyst for Witchy Wisdoms but at the very tail end of my sex and drugs escapade, I got involved with … Who I didn’t realize at the time, I was in a lot of naive denial but he was a heroin addict. And I moved from Manhattan to New Jersey to basically support him, with the promise that he would eventually pay me back but we moved in together. And then two days after we moved in, he said, “Hey, I have a heroin addiction and I need to go to Florida to rehab.”

And my whole world crumbled. And just previously from that, I think the reason why I even got into that relationship in the first place is because I buried so much trauma from a sexual assault in the previous year. There was a lot to unpack and a lot of the reasons why I was brought to that Tower moment because these faded events that happen, it’s like you veered so far off course that something drastic has to take place. And I’m not saying it was … Oh, I found out. And then the next thing I know, I’m Witchy Wisdoms. It took a very, very long time for me to get into therapy, work through things, work through my worth and see that he was no longer a part of that life, to break up, to realize what boundaries were. I’d never even heard that word before therapy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Shawn:

And then once I was in that mode of self-discovery, marrying the things that I was learning in therapy, like boundaries, big queen of swords energy with the taro, was so cathartic. That was the basis for all of my magic going forward.

Speaker 2:

Was it a difficult transition? Obviously, going from your old life to transitioning through that therapy period, how did it take its toll on you?

Shawn:

Oh, my gosh. Well, I have to say, I’m lucky in that I’m a very Mars ruled person. Determination was never … That was never an issue for me but I went through a thousand deaths in that period. Not to be dramatic but I was taking a train., I was taking three trains from Jersey city to Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, twice a week to see my very stoic German therapist who was in my network that I found on Zocdoc and was sliding scale. And it was so painful to revisit. I was so triggered by everything. We’re going deeper and unpacking so many things. That saying where it’s always darkest before the dawn …

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Shawn:

That was what it was.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people when they have their moment, whatever it is. Whether they’ve come through a really dark period or they’ve just been living a life that isn’t necessarily who they are and they have that aha moment, like you said, it’s never a, “Aha. Oh, now everything’s all good.”

It’s an aha of , “I’ve got to go through all of this crap before I get to the good stuff.”

Right.

Shawn:

Absolutely. And that’s the thing with manifestation too. It’s like yeah, you can get it but then you have to implement it. It’s like, “What?”

Speaker 2:

Let’s start talking about … Okay, what was the moment that you started to go back into this witchy side of you and explore that? What did that look like?

Shawn:

It happened pretty organically. I’ll be honest. I’m a really big believer in signs or just things popping up in your periphery when they need to happen. Whether I was scrolling Instagram or looking through magazines or talking to people, the notion of magic just kept popping up, whether it was astrology or tarot or whatever. And it was just that dinging thing in the back of my head that was like, “Remember how helpful this was to you. And remember how this was a part of your personality.”

And I was just like, “Man, I think this is something … It’s calling to me.”

And it fit like a puzzle piece because yeah, therapy is great but it’s hard work, right. And it doesn’t feel as enlightening and fulfilling for me without the magical aspect of just that integration. That was just something that I needed. It works really well for some people on its own but I needed them in tandem and it worked so well for me.

Speaker 2:

And I think that’s an important point to note as well, isn’t it? Therapy isn’t for everyone. Therapy plus something might work for somebody else. And there’s so many different combinations of self-care, self-development and professional … Sorry, personal growth that people can go through. And I think that’s a really good point you highlighted. For anybody who’s out there going through therapy and thinking, “This isn’t working the way I want it to.”

There’s something out there that might be for you instead, right.

Shawn:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. When did it go from magical Shawn for Shawn to magical Shawn for the collective and for clients and that kind of thing?

Shawn:

That again, was pretty organic and I want to say slow moving but now that I look back at it in the years that it’s taken me to culminate my brand, it was not slow. It was pretty fast. When I got to a point of like, “I have internalized this work. I’ve gotten to a point where I can at least see the other side of it.”

No one’s ever really on the other side of trauma but I felt that I was able to share it and I don’t know, just talk about it. And I was always a writer. Again, going back to that spooky kid version of myself, I was writing horror stories when I was in fifth grade and scaring my teachers. Writing was just always that tool that I used. I decided to write a blog because again, at the time … Now, I had lost so many jobs during the breakup because I was just unable to focus and also just was not meant for the line of work I was in. I was in the service industry and working as a GM. I got back into bartending and held the job for a while because I was more mentally well and able to perform but I was unfulfilled and I was like, “I need something in my life that’s going to help me move forward and give me purpose.”

I wrote the blog, Witchy Wisdoms. And married the tarot with therapy. And so every blog post was a card and was like, “Here are the practical applications for the magical nuances, used to be occult symbols.”

And it resonated with people. They were like, “Oh, this is really helpful.”

Then that turned into an Instagram. And when I realized I had a knack for social media, I was like, “I can get exposure doing this.”

And when I reached enough people, I was like, “I could be a life coach.”

I got certified. And that was I think, maybe three or four years after my therapy journey but then now that I do business coaching, it’s because the life coaching business took off so well. Those were the evolutions of it but yeah.

Speaker 2:

I do find that really interesting, how the magic and the business intertwined because there’s so many business coaches that they don’t niche down into anything specific but tell me, how have people responded to the magical element of your business coaching? Is it just spiritual people or people who are interested in the occult or the magical side of things? Or is it businesses as a whole, who they don’t necessarily have a magical leader at the helm if you will?

Shawn:

Well, it’s definitely taken all kinds. I’ve worked with everybody from non-profits for women in Guyana to artists, to tarot readers, to beauty brands. It’s run the gamut but what I’ve noticed, is it’s generally just who gravitates towards me, are women that struggle with empathy and worth. And I think that’s where the magical aspect ties in because again, being so good at the boundaries that I practiced, I can tell people that are healers by nature, whether it’s through beauty branding or helping women in Guyana or whatever the case may be, I help them heal but with integrity and from a standpoint that also supports them and helps them strategically keep scaling so that they can heal the masses versus being stuck in that loop of where you think you can only do the one thing and you can only help these certain people and it should all be for free and then nobody’s getting any value.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And that’s something that a lot of people struggle with, isn’t it? Actually taking money and not doing something for free and that kind of thing. And it seems like a bit of a guilty thing. I know from personal experience, I started a business blog, since somebody private messaged me and said, “Where are the profits going for this?”

I’m like, “It’s a business. Why do people make people feel guilty about taking money?”

Shawn:

Honestly, I think that’s just full projection. And I actually, I’ve had that happen to me quite a few times. When people back out on contracts where the parameters are clearly stated, what is expected. And then they feel like I should have given them things for free. I’m like, “Well, my time and my energy isn’t free and you can take it or leave it. No one is making you pay this price but if you don’t value yourself, I’m pretty certain you’re not going to value me either.”

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Shawn:

Right and there’s a lot to unpack there and many different reasons because money is a sore spot for a lot of people but that’s generally the biggest culprit.

Speaker 2:

Let’s talk about what a session or what a … Work with with you looks like. If I came to you as a business, what would we do? What would a session look like?

Shawn:

It depends on … And this is if I’m doing business coaching, it depends on where you’re at but generally if I’m starting with mid level accounts, let’s say there’s maybe 5 to 10K followers, what we do through the course of two months, we’ll have 30 minute check-in calls but over the course of two months, we set up a content strategy that feels really easy but it also gets engagement and gets conversions. We at least set up that strategy so that it feels like a well-oiled machine. Once a week you can sit down, create content, boom. And then that part of the marketing side is down. And then it also has to do with product development, right. What kind of courses are you releasing? What kind of services are you offering to your community? But the overarching real work that I do and where it comes to be more spiritual is in the branding.

Those are the ABC strategies but we do a lot of shadow work around the brand because again, there’s a million tarot readers. There’s a million astrologers but what is it that you focus on? How are you adding your own flavor? For example, I worked with Astro Forecast, who’s on TikTok. I love her so much but we helped develop her brand to be a newscaster. That was how she delivered her astrology. And it resonated so well that she got over a hundred thousand followers on TikTok.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Shawn:

It’s really because she felt into that character and felt akin to it. And it was part of her. And so it didn’t really feel inauthentic and she was struggling with visibility and then she just took off. That I think, is the real magical work that I do within it. And then everything else falls into place.

Speaker 2:

And I think what you just said there about authenticity, it’s something that we say so often but it’s something people find so difficult to actually find their authentic self. And it’s another one of those aha moments, when they do step into alignment with who they are and the path they’re supposed to be on, then everything moves in the way it should.

Shawn:

Well, yes. And I love that idea of authenticity being so elusive, right because I had to break down my own barriers with my authenticity in therapy because what we’re doing as adults, is collecting beliefs and we believe things about ourselves. We try to fit into a mold that other people will like. And especially faced with this slew of social media options to be a part of, we want to fit into a cookie cutter mold that not only will people resonate with but will also sell. It’s just so much compacting onto you. And just so much pressure, that when you have somebody that can guide you through it, just an objective observer, it becomes so much more helpful.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And you don’t just work one-on-one, do you? You have courses and masterminds and those kinds of things. Can you tell me a bit more about those?

Shawn:

Yeah. Well, I’ve been doing this a while and I used to crank out so many courses. 2020 took a toll on me, I will say, so not as many new courses are out but I have so many different branding courses. I have Instagram courses, marketing courses, podcasting courses, branding courses. All of those are self study essentially. And I put them in a cool little portal, so you can find them all there. And you just work through the, module by module. They’re generally six modules long. You get homework but again, they’re self study. If that’s something that … You’re just looking to get either a refresh drawn or you’re brand new too, it’s a great first step to get in there. I find that the most magic that happens is the one-on-one stuff.

And then I will launch group containers because I find too … Especially people that are beginning to create their Instagram profiles or something, they all need to hit specific milestones. Grouping them together is generally just … It makes sense but the next thing that I’m doing, which I’m actually really, really excited for, is a six month long mastermind. And it’s not on business. It’s actually on personal development and growth. That I’m really excited for.

Speaker 2:

When are you starting that?

Shawn:

That’s actually coming up really soon. I called it the New Year New You Mastermind. I’m so excited and it’s starting January 18th but it’s a going back to basics. As I told you my story about learning boundaries and therapy and all that, I’m almost re-imagining that in this mastermind. Through the course of six months, we’re setting goals, we’re understanding, revisiting and re-appropriating boundaries. We are crushing shadow work. It’s just going to be deep, lots of real soul excavation and implementation, action steps, learning how to manifest but in the real way, not in the windfall of cash manifesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely.

Shawn:

Not to say it’s a farce, I’ve seen it happen before but I think people chase that in a way that’s unhealthy. And real manifesting is setting up boundaries, sticking by them, setting more and sticking by them. And really setting a clear trajectory for you to continuously get the things you want. It’s hard work.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s funny you talk about that chasing money because I’ve heard before, when you chase money, you’re not chasing happiness. At the end of the day, you need to be happy within yourself, set those boundaries, do all the things within yourself. And then if money is what needs to come to you, then it’ll come to you, right.

Shawn:

Absolutely. And I don’t want to come from a very privileged standpoint and say that money doesn’t provide comfort because it absolutely does, especially in the pandemic world of 2020. If you’ve lost your job, then you’re not going to be happy simply because you can’t meet your basic human needs. I don’t want to negate that fact at all but you’re right, if you’re sitting in a comfortable level and you just think more and more and more is going to make you happier, you’re missing a really integral part of what true happiness or true peace rather, really is.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Now, I want to go back to you as a witch because I’m really interested to find out, do you label yourself as a certain kind of witch? Are you a kitchen witch or garden witch? What are you, if you’re anything?

Shawn:

Honestly, I think I’m more of an eclectic witch. I like a grab bag of things. Yeah, I’ve always … Again, my parents were punk rockers, so I’ve never really liked to be labeled. Being eclectic was just a lot more comfortable for me. As far as occult scholar studies go, I do look into the Kabbalah and the Kabbalistic tree of life. Again, I have Jewish ancestry, so that always just felt really akin to me. Any type of high magic, I do dabble in but I don’t do ceremonial magic. It’s just something that I use as a meditative guide. And then I don’t know. I love candles and incense and the moon and astrology and …

Speaker 2:

Yes, I love candles too. Is there a candle witch because I think I might be one of those?

Shawn:

[inaudible 00:22:22] be candle witches.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, deal. What does your spell work look like?

Shawn:

Generally … I haven’t worked magic in a while, especially since it’s been eclipse season. I’m already getting a headache from this passing eclipse and I’m just like, “Oh, it’s been a rough one.”

… but I’ll do money spells and better business spells pretty frequently. And again, it’ll look like a seven day candle with my own particular ritual. I also love … Again, triple water sign. I love baths. Meditating in a bath and working magic in a bath is really important to me as well. I’ll marry the two sometimes but also, a lot of the time, as I’m a person suffers with mental health issues, sometimes I don’t have the energy and a lot of my spell work and magic has to do with honoring that as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Shawn:

It’s really just a gentleness.

Speaker 2:

And that’s really … Again, another powerful thing, is to think about who you are and what works for you. At the end of the day, you don’t have to say, “I’m a witch. I have to do a spell every single day.”

Right.

Shawn:

Right, exactly. Or even on every luminary, I know there are so many people that put so much pressure on themselves to make manifestations every single new moon. And it’s like, “Maybe your body’s not calling for you to do that right now. And you just need to be still.”

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly. And it’s all about listening to your body at the end of the day. I want to talk about your community and the spells you teach them. Is there a single spell that you start off your community with and say, “Okay, this is the one that everybody should do?”

Shawn:

Oh, okay. I love this question because simple answer no because I truly believe, especially as a person that prides themselves on autonomy and building businesses and all of that, I truly believe in DIY. Whether it’s in my books, whether it’s in my co-creation coven or whether I’m feeling fancy and want to do one in my Instagram, which I do very rarely or even … When have I done it before? I have a course called Spellbound Academia. All of these show you the pieces that you need to create a spell that is 100% yours and that will work with you because I’m a true believer, especially when it’s in business, that if you do something that doesn’t feel right to you, you will not do it and it won’t be successful.

And that is the same with magic. It’s the same with spell work. Some people are really uncomfortable doing something ceremonial or singing out loud and that nervous energy isn’t going to translate well on your spell work. I always teach people like, “Hey, these are correlations of crystals, herbs, whatever, whatever. These are certain things that will amplify whatever your intention is. This moon is good for that.”

… but it’s more of an educational and empowerment platform, rather than like, “You need to do X, Y, Z. And that’s it.”

Speaker 2:

I think the theme of this podcast is very much been there’s no one size fits all. There’s no cookie cutter solution. For you personally, did you go through a lot of different explorations to find out what worked for you?

Shawn:

Yeah. And even in my life, right. If you’re thinking about just that entire journey of drugs and boys, you keep trying different things. My whole life has just been an experiment. Even the business, it has gone through so many evolutions in a short time. And I think that’s why I encourage it so much because I want people to trust the process and love the evolution because as an authentic branding coach, your yesterday may not be authentic to you today.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Shawn:

Yeah. Things change, they fluctuate. And I think it’s honoring that that’s really the crux of it.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And that is again, something so important to note, to remember, is that we’re not the same person today as we were yesterday or will be tomorrow. And that’s okay. I think in our parents’ generations, it was very much … If we look at the jobs they had and their careers, it was pretty much get into one career, stay in that career. That’s who you are but it’s just not the case anymore, is it?

Shawn:

Well until you look at your parents and the boomer era, right and you see how much divorce happened when we were children and you see how many people that left their jobs and now had no idea what to do. And so I feel like unlearning that … And I guess it is technically ancestral trauma, to where you can really pave your own way and then love every iteration of your life because life is long. And to just settle down at 20 with a clear path, it’s just not practical. And I think probably that’s where it comes from for me too.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. What would you say to people who are potentially scared or embarrassed to explore the witchy side of them?

Shawn:

I would say that you can keep secrets. This is coming from a triple Scorpio. Have a secret, secrets are fun. Google things. If you’re afraid or embarrassed, do things in your own little private way and just start reading. Witchcraft is all about reading and studying. If you’re reading, you don’t really have to own anything yet. It’s the best thing to just dip a toe in. You also don’t need to share it with everyone. You certainly don’t need to share it on social media. You’re allowed to have secrets.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. And I actually think that’s quite empowering because a lot of religions say to you, “If you don’t talk openly about your religion, then you’re denouncing it and you’re not a real whatever.”

… but with this, it’s quite empowering to know that you can be a witch and you don’t need to share that with everybody.

Shawn:

Yeah. Not everybody needs to know everything. And I think when living in the digital age, there’s this underlying notion that they do, they don’t. Have secrets.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Now, we’re coming to the end of the podcast but I do want to just go on a bit of a tangent and talk about something else. I noticed that you’ve got quite a few tattoos and I’d love to understand whether they came before the witchiness, after the witchiness, as a result of the witchiness? What do they represent? Do each one of them represent something different?

Shawn:

Oh, I love that. They definitely came after the witchiness and I think that’s why they’re so good. I had the privilege of waiting until I was a little older to get tattoos. I have quite a few friends that still have a butterfly tramp stamp. I did well but this one is my Scorpio constellation and yeah. Generally, a lot of them are Scorpio related. I don’t think I know any Scorpio that doesn’t have at least two Scorpio tattoos.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I think you’re so right.

Shawn:

[inaudible 00:29:45]. And then yeah, I have this moon on my bicep that I got in Berlin. I like to travel and collect tattoos. They were my momentos but yeah, now I have so many but they’re definitely a result of me embracing my full witchiness because it’s out there. It’s no secret.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And I actually … It makes me want to see our community’s tattoos. If you’ve got tattoos, especially if you’re a Scorpio, now I think about it. If you’ve got tattoos that are spiritual or symbolic to you in some way, tag us on Instagram and tag Shawn and we will share them because I’d really be interested to see what tattoos you guys have because it’s always quite interesting, isn’t it? We actually did a blog the other day on top moon tattoos for your sign. Shawn, I’ll send that to you and you could have a look to see what your Scorpio one is.

Shawn:

I love that. Oh, my gosh. And yes, I would love to see all of your tattoos. Let’s do a gallery.

Speaker 2:

Excellent. Thank you so much, Shawn, for joining me today. It’s been really interesting to talk to you. What we’re going to do, is we’re going to put the link to your mastermind in our show notes. If anybody wants to check that out, they can do.

Shawn:

Fabulous. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to the Numerologist Podcast. If you loved it, make sure you subscribe and don’t forget to check the show notes for an extra special free gift.

Hi Numerologist community, thank you once again for joining me for another episode of the Numerologist Podcast.

In this episode, we’re joined by our resident astrological expert, Kelli Fox, to discuss the Solar Eclipse and New Moon In Saggitarius!

Listen below or on your favorite platform…

Here’s what we discuss:

Show Links

As a thank you for joining us here on the Numerologist Podcast, we’re giving you access to a very special video report which delves into the deepest levels of your numerology chart to help you understand who you are.

https:/video.numerologist.com

Hi Numerologist community, thank you once again for joining me for another episode of the Numerologist Podcast.

In this episode, we’re joined once again by our resident numerology expert, Roy Kirkland, to discuss the Personality Number and its connection with our heart’s desires!

Listen below or on your favorite platform…

Show Links

As a thank you for joining us here on the Numerologist Podcast, we’re giving you access to a very special video report which delves into the deepest levels of your numerology chart to help you understand who you are.

https:/video.numerologist.com

Full Transcript

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Numerologist podcast, where we bring you a very special guest every single week to help guide you on your spiritual journey, live with abundance and inspire your soul.

Rose:

Hi, numerologist community, and welcome back to another episode of the Numerologist podcast. Thank you so much for joining me once again, my name is Rose, and today I am here with our favorite numerologist Roy. Hey, Roy.

Roy:

Hey, how are you?

Rose:

Really well, thank you. Today we’re talking about the personality number. Let’s get right to it, what is the personality number all about?

Roy:

Well, first, let me start by saying that the personality number is definitely not the kind of thing that tells you about what clothes are best, or what kind of car you, quote should, unquote drive. Things like that are okay, but that’s superstition, that’s not really diving into the depth of numerology. Because this number explores the interaction between your highest goals, and your highest ideals, and your psychic and physical environment.

I was just doing some research the other day and was reading from Einstein, and he said that “Everything that’s not me is my environment.” In other words, he was carefully identifying himself as being his psychic-self, about being his mind and his emotions. Everything that was not them was the environment.

It’s important to think of it like that in terms of the personality, because the personality number is made up of, or the way it works within a human being is that, we tend to make up our own ideas about life, and our ideas about who we are and what we do, from our responses, from the environment. Life path numbers have to do with our environment, and the name numbers have to do with our relationship with the environment. That’s exactly what the personality number does. It’s the central thing that brings to you into a response, a call and response relationship with the world around you.

Now, in psychology, the personality is basically considered to be long standing, repeated behaviors of the body, speech, and mind, more or less your physical and emotional habits. Now, there are psychologists who don’t agree with that view, but that’s the standing one nowadays, because it’s easier to treat with behavioral therapy and drugs. Than it is to deal with the [inaudible 00:03:12] type of perception of what a personality is.

I tend to think of it as being how you’re doing one thing and thinking about another. Well, the part of you that’s thinking about other things, or deciding which shirt to put on in the morning, or whether or not you need more salt in the food, that’s the personality number in action.

We tend to look at the personality number as the channel through which the heart’s desire reaches out to the world, and through which the sense impressions of the world reach the deepest level of the cell. I’m sorry about that, I forgot to put my phone in airplane mode. But anyway, would reach the deepest level of the self and feed its power.

The personality number and the heart’s desire are really inseparable, but at the same time, they’re sometimes at odds with one another. In other words … but it’s easier to work with if we’re using this sort of model of saying that the heart’s desire and the personality number are two different things.

Let me give you a quick example of that here before we move forward. In other words, if a person is say, really into manifesting their goals, or their dreams, or something like that, first they get clear about them, which is clarifying the heart’s desire. Creating an open channel [inaudible 00:04:59] to operate. Then everything else involves the work of the personality number, in other words, sorting out your thoughts about this particular goal you want to reach, and making sense of it.

Then even the doubts that come up about it, about your ability to achieve such a thing, are coming from out of the personality number, because this is stuff you’ve learned from life, not stuff that’s part of the creative aspect of the mind. Which is where the heart’s desire has control, you see what I mean? In other words, there are no obstacles to the creative mind, only to the personality, because it’s found them, it knows they’re there. You see?

Rose:

Got you. Is this the level at which you can read about the result of someone’s decisions?

Roy:

Well, not quite. Because the personality number is the part of you that expresses both complicated and simple decisions in the world. It’s also the facet of the self that is most easily influenced by peers, by the culture, by the environment a person lives in. By thoughts and ideas of others.

Now, this isn’t a bad thing, because nobody wants to be a total oddball alone. We have to get along with other people, that is human nature, we’re not, how do I put it? Solitary creatures. It’s sometimes called the quiet self, or the part of self that remains hidden from others, but does all the work when it comes to creating happiness, and making choices in everyday life. Or expressing your personal power, your instinctual power, and so on, and so forth.

This is why all existing self-help and psychological growth literature is designed to work with the personality number. In other words, the goal of most of this work, including the work of psychotherapy is designed to connect the personality number with the heart’s desire, in a fluid and uplifting way.

Now, there can be glimpses of it, and so on, and so forth. People may even view the heart’s desire negatively. Like people who say to themselves, “Oh, it’s impossible. I’ll never be a millionaire,” or, “I’ll never have a sailboat,” or something like that. That’s stuff that’s in the heart’s desire, that a person has decided that they can’t have on the basis of what other people tell them, their experience in the environment or in the world.

Of course, it’s not when desire is something totally at odds with reality. In other words, a person who’s 80 years old and has a bad ankle is not going to win the Boston Marathon. You see what I mean? No matter how much they want it. It’s something they’re not going to manifest, unless they make a special category for 80 year old people with bad ankle.

Now, it is the key to manifesting and healing in a most important way. All other miracles that people strive for in this day and age, in a very specific way. The personality number is the key to making these things manifest. In our day-to-day lives, we usually depend on our personality numbers to help us make decisions. Things like decisions about our personal style, food choices, as I mentioned before, are almost always built along the lines of the personality number. The likes and dislikes, as I mentioned before, as to whether there’s enough salt in this soup, this is a personal like and dislike.

I personally don’t think that has anything to do with the heart’s desire. I think that’s a matter of what you’ve adopted to and part of you that’s changed. When I was a kid, I hated asparagus, now I eat it every week. Because of just changes, I guess, in understanding things, and then educating your senses and so on, and so forth.

But the decisions that we need to make about our future, and the fulfillment of our deepest desires need to be illumined. Or, I guess I could say empowered by the heart’s desire, and this is where the problems can arise. Because our personality number includes the interactive, I guess you could call it, mind. The facet of the subconscious mind that builds values, beliefs, and so forth. Those drive the majority of our activities. It’s through this area of consciousness, where the personality and heart’s desire connect.

But at the same time, we take up many of these plans and thoughts from our culture, and from other people, because we usually have similar needs, desires and goals. What that ends up doing is building a wall between the personality, and the heart’s desire, and making it very difficult for anyone to find what it is they truly want out of life.

Rose:

I guess that it has a lot to do with communication then?

Roy:

Yeah, it does. It’s not only connection or communication with other people, it’s also communication with the deepest layers of the self. Because all forms of communication are bi-directional, in other words, they go both ways. Talking to you doesn’t do any good if you’re just not there, as we sometimes get on phone calls that don’t connect.

At the same time, thinking to yourself about things that you’ve already got objections toward, really doesn’t produce an effect. It’s a kind of a shared mentality that language creates for us. But in our inner self, this has to do with symbols, ideas, signs, things that we’re not even aware of in our daily thoughts.

That means we can have a conflict between motivations, and aims, and our ability to follow through on those motivations, and aims. It’s kind of what some psychologists used to call a complex or something of that nature. Plus, they’re all these thoughts that are driven by peer pressure, and fads, and necessities of, and how you’ve been taught to respond to immediate situations. Can cloud up the connection between the personality and the heart’s desire, especially when these thoughts conflict with the deeper innovation.

Rose:

I can see that. I guess that’s what it means when people say they’re not quite on the same page, right?

Roy:

Yeah. Well, that’s absolutely what it means when people are talking to each other. But when you’re dealing with the interaction between the heart’s desire and the personality number, you can’t see that as being two different versions of yourself. It’s all one version of yourself, but it’s like part of that version of yourself that connects the two. It’s more like having a kind of a problem, like an illness that’s very hard to get rid of, “Good God, I want to get rid of this cold. I hate having my nose stuffed up.” Things like that.

These are the same kind of things that, how do I put it? That non-positive thinking does to you. It creates that blockage. But the thing of it is, is that between two people, this not being on the same page is not that hard to fix. At the core of most self-improvement methods, even meditation, the problem between the being on the same page between the heart’s desire and personality numbers, it’s not that hard to fix either. You see what I mean?

Rose:

Yeah. I guess that’s the change your mind, change your life kind of philosophy, right?

Roy:

Yeah. Exactly, exactly. You nailed it. The best thing about it, is that this is a totally scientific thing. This is something that we have proven. Although they don’t talk about it much, usually, all they talk about is the stuff having to do with cosmetics, and so on, and so forth. But there’s a reason for that, the medical industry and the, at least in America, the medical industry went through a big thing to do their best to outlaw any of the mind science that existed at the end of the 19th century. When people were really interested in exploring this.

But according to recent scientific studies in neurophysiology and biochemistry, and so on and so forth, we’ve come up with this thing called neuroplasticity. That the thoughts literally change the brain, physically alter the way the brain works throughout your life. This affects your ambitions, your drives, your efficiency, your sensitivity, and your relationships with others, and even more.

Now, the brain is not a self-ceiling tire, it doesn’t automatically repair its wounds, which is the way they like to think in a lot of science nowadays. That there’s no such thing as consciousness, there’s just the brain, which is a very sophisticated computer. That’s baloney.

The thing about neuroplasticity is that this is a fact that you can look up on the internet or anywhere. It’s been tested and proven in laboratory conditions. Of course, you’re going to run across skeptics, but if the person’s a skeptic, that’s just a person that likes to talk and thinks too much of themselves.

But this is also vulnerability, because thoughts based on the influence of others can change the brain as well. We know this, for instance from hypnosis, all right. That’s what it does. It’s common to all people, and it’s what self-help literature, metaphysics, spiritual pursuits, [inaudible 00:16:47] therapy, and other practices try to help us overcome.

It’s freedom from that influence of others without having to blow them off, or become an isolated loner for the rest of your life, or anything like that. But that’s what all these teachings that we have, that connect body and soul, and spirit, and so on, and so forth, that’s what they all are trying to help us overcome. This vulnerability, because of neuroplasticity.

They’ve known about this since long time before this stuff was even discovered. All right. Now, jump back to that, personality number is also where the decision to make a radical change in one’s life can take place. Sometimes it’s a change that’s prompted by one’s higher consciousness or the heart’s desire, and manifests as events. Like opening a business [inaudible 00:17:52], or entry onto a spiritual path, or creating a major change in professional career. Or maybe moving far away from one’s current place of residence. These kinds of things usually have to do with the heart’s desire, especially if they come on suddenly, in a person. All right.

In other words, one of the cycles, pinnacles or personal years that syncs up with the personality number, and the heart’s desire, is usually a sign that these major changes might be happening. You can tell when a dramatic change comes from this way, because the person becomes really passionate about making that change happen.

But you can also tell when an important change in one’s life was not prompted by the heart’s desire. That’s usually when a person acts out of fear, resentment, emotional pain, or loneliness. The change they make usually throws them into a situation they regret later.

When somebody gets into a relationship with a person that’s really not good for them, and they know it. But they think it’s going to be a better choice than being by themselves. You see what I mean? It usually ends up being a much worse choice, but that’s when it’s only the personality number in action. As opposed to being the heart’s desire in action.

Now, sometimes the personality number shows its power while one is young, and others, these changes happen later in life. That value usually depends on its agreement with life path cycles, or pinnacles, and so on, and so forth. It’s especially true if the personality number, and the heart’s desire work well together, are asynchronous or … oh, man, I hate using the word, are harmonic in their relationship. In other words, I hate using the word compatibility, because that doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

I’ve known several people in my life, and I’ve had many, many clients who say, “Oh, you’re compatible with so and so,” and they end up having the worst fights and arguments. End up leaving each other after a while, and come back and ask me, “Well, somebody told me, we were compatible.” I have to explain to them that that doesn’t mean anything. Anybody can get along with anybody, unless there’s a really difficult personality problem between them.

But nature’s kind in this way, in that there are many ways that you can tune the personality number, and the heart’s desire to one another, and thereby harmonize your life. This tuning can also give you the push you need to achieve your goals. That’s what all the self-help and new thought literature is about. Tuning the personality to the heart’s desire.

Rose:

I guess this is what people want to change their name for, right?

Roy:

Yeah, right. We’re going to talk about that a bit, when we get to the expression. But let me say this, a name change is nothing to fool around with. Sometimes they’re done involuntarily or even forced upon us by others. Well, for instance, what was her name? Norma Jeane, something, or rather that changed the name to Marilyn Monroe. That was heart’s desire working.

But it didn’t do a whole lot for her personal life. But as far as her stardom, and her fame, and so on is concerned, it did a miraculous amount of change. But we look at Lindsay Lohan, originally, her name was Lindsay Dee Lohan, and she changed it to Lindsay Morgan Lohan. That’s when her career completely was torn apart.

I think the main reason is that she lost that Dee, and she lost the extra Es, which made her perfectly compatible numerologically with Disney. You could extract this need from her name, and when she changed it, she lost that ability. It wasn’t long before she lost the contract with them.

It’s nothing to experiment with. Never change your name, unless the issue is a marriage, or divorce, or something like that. Without the help of a reliable expert. I wanted to emphasize that before I went off.

Think about it like this, if you change your name, you’ll change your personality number, your heart’s desire, or both. You’ll also change the challenges that go with them, the personality number challenge, and the heart’s desire challenge. This is giving you a pretty steep learning curve, caused by the friction between the old and the new you.

You may be pushed into a completely new experience of yourself. If you look at the change of making practices of our past and present, self-help gurus, the work always begins within. The outer life catches up with you, as you make changes in your environment or lifestyle to support the change, you see what I mean?

In other words, the change that the teachers preach is to change something within, change your attitude, and everything else will begin to catch up with you. That’s basically what this is about. In other words, sure, name changes can be done, they can be done effectively, but you don’t want to depend on that as being your key to success, or happiness, or anything like that.

Rose:

Got you. How do we find the personality number and its challenge?

Roy:

Well, it’s easy enough. Let’s take a person named Dave Jones. Now, the heart’s desire is the sum of the vowels, is the sum of all the vowels in the name. The vowels as we explained before are like the soul of a word. The personality is like the form that soul takes. We take the personality number as being the consonants. You change one consonant in a word, the difference between dog and dot, [inaudible 00:25:16] only two different things. But one’s a concept, and the other one is a living thing.

A person named Dave Jones would have these numbers, four, four, four, one, five, one, that’s equal to 19, and one plus nine equals one. Personality challenge is the difference between the first and last consonants in the name. If we’re looking at this Dave Jones, we’ve got a personality number of, four is the D, and S is a one. We subtract one from four, and that’s equal to three. The personality challenge is going to be three.

Now, if both the first and last consonants in the, say are the same number, then let’s count it as nine instead of zero. Because for instance, if his name was something like Steve Jones, then both would be one, and one minus one, is zero. If you get a zero when you’re working on your own, count it as nine, instead. It’s easier to read that way and think about.

Let’s take a look at what these personality challenges might mean. One, our personality numbers and their challenges might mean. Personality one, is one with a healthy self-esteem. It’s usually tempered by respect and compassion for others. That’s the goal of the one personality number.

A person with a one personality number should never, ever be afraid to stand out from the crowd. Number two, has a goal of supporting others without giving up your own dreams and ideals. A personality two should never avoid standing up for their own dreams, just like in any other variation of two.

Because the two is the most cooperative number, and people with that as a personality, or a soul urge, or a pinnacle, or whatever. This is always a period in which the default action will probably be to give up on your own dreams in favor of someone else’s. Or to fall into a belief that your dreams cannot be attained. All right.

Number three, is artistry and communication. Using your own talents for the benefit of others. This is the goal of three. Three should never have stage fright, so to speak or writer’s block. Never be afraid to show off your talents if you have a personality of three.

Personality of four, being reliable, and dependable, while building structure and stability is the goal of a four. They should never avoid expressing their determination. Bringing the benefits of adventure and freedom in a positive way to others is the goal of five. But a five should never avoid their responsibilities. For the number six, bringing the benefits of harmony and balance to others in a positive way, is the absolute, unalterable goal of the six.

I say unalterable because they’ll try this even when the person is clearly not acting in their favor, or clearly not supportive of their own activities. Six always has to be willing to counsel or teach other people. A lot of the times they’ll get people who just don’t want to hear it, like in that song by The killers, I got nothing to learn, I’m sorry. This is the way some of those people are who have this personality, six.

But being willing to try is the main thing, because there’s so many other people for every one like that, a six is going to meet 100, at least. Who will benefit from the advice, or friendship, or whatever it is that they give them to help them out.

Let’s see, the seven is about bridging the gap between knowledge and faith for the benefit of others. Now, there are some people whose entire body of knowledge is based on faith. In other words, they believe some teacher of theirs, or some conspiracy radio show, or something like that. That’s the entire breadth of their [inaudible 00:30:49]. That’s not what seven is trying to do.

Seven is trying to bridge the gap between information and reason, between your knowledge of the world and your faith in humanity, or God, or whatever it is you consider as the higher power in the world. Things like that.

Even in law, it takes a tremendous amount of knowledge to deal with legal problems. But the person who’s the lawyer is the one who has faith in the law itself. Faith in fairness, and so on, and so. In other words, with seven, there’s a very specific trouble that can come to people who have seven personality numbers. But it will only come if they isolate themselves from other people. Never, ever isolate yourself from others if you’re a seven.

Eight, using the gifts of perseverance and discipline for the benefit of others, is the goal for eight. If you ever saw My Fair Lady, no, not My Fair Lady, I’m thinking of Sound of Music, The Sound of Music, musical play that was made into a movie. It’s like the portrayal of the father in that movie was a perfect example of an eight. He still sticks in my mind, and it’s been at least 30 years since I’ve seen that movie.

But anyway, it’s about being tolerant and accepting of other people. Nine, for that one was using the abilities for achievement and completion, for the benefit of others, is the goal. Always look for the opportunity to be a part of mutual or shared success.

Now, these are very basic statements. But as we’re moving forward in the future, we’ll explore them a bit more fully. Now, the personality challenge is a little bit different in terms of reading the number of the challenge, because it has to do with things that can block your connection with the heart’s desire.

With the one, the personality challenge is to never fear doing things differently from others. In other words, conformity is what the personality challenge will bring if it happens to be a one.

For number two, the personality challenge is never give up on your dreams, from a fear of loneliness. If you have this great dream, and it’s realizable, and other people know it, and you tell them about it, and they’ll tell you, “Hey, it’s lonely at the top.” Just tell them, “No, it’s just more crowded at the bottom.” This is a hard thing for a two personality challenge to do.

Personality challenge for three may even be harder, because it’s about never getting involved in passing gossip, or supporting rumors, and so on, and so forth. That is absolutely the worst thing that a person with the personality challenge three can do. In other words, once they’re involved in that thing, it takes up a whole little space in the mind. It’s a new member of the community that thinks negative thoughts, and those negative thoughts bleed over into thinking negatively about yourself. All right.

Unless the people that you’re gossiping about hear about it and start passing gossip about you. Then we could have the influence of a mind to mind communication, [inaudible 00:35:03] that sort of thing. Never, ever, if you have three as a personality challenge, and everybody in general should do the best they can to avoid gossip and rumors.

With four, never holding on to resentments or anger, if four is the personality challenge, you’ll have the tendency to hold on to them, and build your future on the basis of resentment or anger. There must be at least 100 action movies both in the West, and in Asia, that have to do [inaudible 00:35:44] about a person whose only driving force in life is vengeance. To get back at somebody, because of some hurt they caused them or something like that.

In other words, this might be the hardest thing for a person with a four personality challenge to do. Is to be able to let go of that kind of resentment before it also become a grudge. You know what they can do, you’ve probably seen the movie.

The five, is to never get involved in anything that can limit your freedom. Now, this is often hard in today’s world, because we all need money, we all need jobs, we all need work, we all like having somebody around us to share life with. But very often, a five will think in those terms, and come to find out that now their freedom is so limited, they’re miserable all the time, and don’t know why.

This is what the key is, always think ahead and make sure that what you’re doing will not limit your freedom to the point that you can’t explore your own sense of adventure, and so on, and so forth. In other words, even as only a personality challenge, it can do this to a person.

But again, this kind of personality challenge can only happen if the person say has a four as the first letter in the name, first consonant in the name. And say a nine as the last consonant in the name. This is a kind of a condition, or they could be reversed, one to the other. This is to avoid anything that limits freedom.

The six is to never compromise your best interest out of sympathy. In other words, this is like the situation where you might be feeling terribly sympathetic to someone, and so on, and so forth. You decide that you’re going to change your whole life in order to, or change your lifestyle, or your work, or relationship with family or something like, because you feel sorry for somebody. Forget about it.

That will do you no good whatsoever, because six is the number of responsibility, and doing this breaks your responsibility to your own self-interest, your own best interest, your own prime directive. Your own top priorities.

For the seven, you should never avoid social life or refuse an offer of friendship. Now, this might happen in the case of a person who has, say for instance nine is the first letter, and a two is the last letter, last consonant. They might have this tendency to avoid a social interaction or avoid an offer of friendship. Because that last letter in the name, we’ll be talking about this when we get to the personal alphabet. But that last letter in the last name is a sign of the way you leave things with people.

You may leave with people the fact that you want to be a friend or you want to get together with them in some way or another, but then you don’t follow up. If someone offers you friendship, you should go ahead and accept it. But trust yourself, while trusting yourself to find out really quickly, whether that person is acting in your interests, or whether they are acting in their own interest and motivations. And have the ability to throw you off of your path in life, your personal path in life.

For the eight, the challenge is to never think that you have to do everything yourself. Because with eight, I think it was an eight that invented that saying that, “If you want anything done right, you have to do it yourself.” That’s kind of a natural philosophy for eight. But never, ever do that if eight is the challenge number.

If nine is the personality challenge, it’s similar to eight, but somewhat different. Never think that you have to do everything your own way, all right? Nine, as a number tends to be very individualistic and very creative, and wants to do things their own way, almost all the time. But you don’t have to do everything like that.

There’s even a famous story about that in Chinese, about a guy putting feet on a snake, and losing the contest. Because he was [inaudible 00:41:30] first, and he didn’t get the big barrel of wine that was the prize. But there’s some hints about the personality number that I want to cover [inaudible 00:41:43].

One thing to think about when exploring the personality number is that people will tend to default to a certain lifestyle. This doesn’t only have to do with the culture that they’re in the society that they live in, but it can be boiled down into simple categories. These default behaviors in lifestyle can be either problematic or very, very positive for a person.

Now one, is a personality number of one will tend to express themselves and their opinions of themselves through their clothing, style of speech, and appearance. If you see a person who has a personality number of one, and they’re dressed very properly and elegantly in some way or another, then they probably think pretty well of themselves.

On the other hand, if you find somebody who dresses in a particularly aggressive way, and they have a personality number of one, they probably think a little bit too highly of themselves. They’re tough guys or they’re bad. This is what I’m getting at, this is easy to tell with a one, because they’ll express themselves in that way.

Two tends to conform to the peer group in business or private life, in their choices regarding personal style. In other words, they do everything, they’ll default to doing everything pretty much the way everybody else does them. But this can leak into the creative mind, into the creativity and cause them to bend easily when it comes to making their own decisions about what they want in life. All right.

The three tends to be expressive or attention-getting in their personal style of dress and behavior. I was talking about this jacket I bought with a friend of mine, and he said, “Well, why don’t you have one like that?” and pointed at a guy who was wearing one of these jackets, that’s a hoodie with somebody his name, and pictures, and whatnot on it. I said, “Because I’m not in the advertising business. They could pay me for wearing one of those, but I’m not going to do it by my own choice.” But that’s the way threes are. When three is a personality number, they tend to be expressive in this way, in their style of dressing and behavior.

In other words, there’s something about something they’re wearing that’s going to make a person ask, “Where did you get that?” Or, “How did you get that?” Or, “Did you make that yourself?” Or something to show that it grabbed your attention. All right.

The four tends to like a homey look, flannel shirts and jeans and so on, and so forth. They often address as if they were at work, even when they relax. In other words, if somebody who’s a business person, who’s a office worker, they’re more likely to dress as, with a suit, or whatever that’s required by the job, even when they come home.

On the other hand, somebody who works in industry or carpentry or something like that, will tend to dress like the guys on the job, even when they’re relaxing, and so on, and so forth. Will tend to try to dress up this informal kind of utilitarian clothing that they wear.

People on five. Now, they’re interesting because they tend to stay on the cutting edge of style and fashion. Even when they don’t want to. They’ll do things unconsciously, like throw out a bunch of pants or something like that, because all of a sudden, they’re not short enough for their taste, and find out that before people have noticed, they have started a new trend. The fives tend to be the trendsetters.

Six likes comfort and elegance in their personal style. They tend to like a lot of jewelry too. But they like comfort and elegance in their personal style, but always wants others to feel comfortable around them. They might have a four carat diamond ring on, and wear sweat pants. All right. This is a six.

The seven tends to look professional or style themselves as an extreme nonconformist. In other words, it goes one way or the other with seven. You’ll have one seven who will wear one of those three piece [inaudible 00:47:18] suits, and his brother who’s also a seven may walk around in a ragged jeans and a hoodie all the time, and sit in the corner by themselves.

It all depends on their activities in life, but they’re a little hard to tell, because either they look very professional or they do everything they can to say to people, “I’m not like you.”

The eight tends to look official or authoritative no matter what they have on, and what their lifestyle or occupation is. In other words, an eight could be wearing a T shirt, a sweater and jeans, and they look like they mean business. It’s just something about that vibration that does that.

The nine tends to look daring or accomplished, no matter what they do. In other words, if a nine puts on a military jacket, or sweater, or something, then they look like a soldier. If they grab a formal shirt and put it on, then you wonder if this person is a maitre d’, or is a musician in an orchestra, orchestral musician by way of profession.

In other words, the nines look accomplished no matter what it is they do. They look like they’re supposed to be doing it, or that they’ve mastered it in some way or another. Now, here’s something interesting that I remembered when I was working on what I’m going to talk about [inaudible 00:49:08]. Is that Cheiro, the man who wrote the first numerology book that I ever read, I think he had another name of Count Louis Hamon. He was British.

He wrote in that book on numerology that a nine should avoid wearing black. I found that very interesting, because it would seem to me like the black would absorb some of that energy, but I don’t know where he got it from. I think he got it from India, because it sounds like one of their ideas. But, I have a lot of nines in my chart, and I don’t avoid it at all, and I don’t think it’s creating a problem for me.

I think it’s mostly because nines are kind of sensitive, and need to avoid wearing black to avoid people mistaking their ideas and intentions. But I don’t think it matters once, if it’s a professional, if there’s a professional reason why they should be wearing it. You’re going to tell that to a nine person who’s an undertaker.

But anyway, that’s about it for this introduction to the personality numbers. Next time, we’re going to explore the expression and why it’s such an important fundamental element of a numerology chart. As a matter of fact, I think I’ve broken that down into two or three different talks, because there’s so much to cover when we talk about the expression.

Rose:

Excellent. All right, Roy, it’s been a pleasure talking to you today. We always have such good fun and learn so much when we talk to you, so thank you. I can’t wait until next time when we talk about the expression number.

Roy:

We’re going to get started at least.

Rose:

Awesome. All right. Speak to you soon, bye.

Roy:

Alrighty. Bye-bye.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to the Numerologist podcast. If you loved it, make sure you subscribe, and don’t forget to check the show notes for an extra special, free gift.

Welcome to the Numerologist podcast!

Today’s guest is international psychic medium, author and spiritual teacher, John Holland. As the author of six books, creator of four oracle decks and the founder of mysoulcommunity.com, John embarked on his spiritual journey to help and heal people globally. And through his many channels, he is doing just that. He’s been featured on the History Channel, the Biography Channel, in the Boston Globe and many others. And I’m so delighted he’s agreed to talk to me at Numerologist.com today.

Here’s what we discuss:

Show Links

As a thank you for joining us here on the Numerologist Podcast, we’re giving you access to a very special video report which delves into the deepest levels of your numerology chart to help you understand who you are.

https://video.numerologist.com/mesl_v1.5/blog-mb.php

Full Transcript

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Numerologist Podcast, where we bring you a very special guest every single week to help guide you on your spiritual journey, live with abundance and inspire your soul.

Rose:

Welcome back to the Numerologist Podcast. Thank you for joining me once again. I’m Rose, I’m your host. Now, we’ve been running this new revamped version of the Cosmic Current for nearly a year now. And I can’t believe how fast it’s gone. I should probably actually stop calling it the new version. But I’ve just been reflecting on how many amazing people I’ve spoken to this year.

Rose:

And getting a little bit deeper into that, it really makes me realize that it’s so important to be grateful for the incredible things that have happened during not such an incredible year. So, I think that’s a mini homework task for this week’s episode.

Rose:

I’d love for you to identify the things that have been amazing this year, even if they’re just small things, even if you have to squint to find the good in any given situation. And it’s probably a pretty timely time to do that, especially if you’re in the US since this episode will be live the day after Thanksgiving and on Black Friday of all days. So, if you do that little homework task, I want to share your gratitude with the world. Tell us any Instagram stories, and we’ll share that with our community as well.

Rose:

So, in the spirit of giving thanks, I just did want to say a huge thank you to everyone who has listened to the Numerologist Podcast over this past year. Whether you’ve listened to one or all of our episodes, I am so glad you’re joining us on this journey.

Rose:

If you haven’t already, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. And just a reminder that in the show notes for each episode, there’s a link to our free numerology video report, which reveals some of the most telling numbers in your numerology charts. And make sure you head over there and grab yours.

Rose:

But back to this episode. Today’s guest is international psychic medium, author and spiritual teacher, John Holland. As the author of six books, creator of four oracle decks and the founder of mysoulcommunity.com, John embarked on his spiritual journey to help and heal people globally. And through his many channels, he is doing just that. He’s been featured on the History Channel, the Biography Channel, in the Boston Globe and many others. And I’m so delighted he’s agreed to talk to me at Numerologist.com today. Please join me in welcoming John Holland. Hi, John. Thanks for joining me.

John Holland:

Hi, Rose. How are you?

Rose:

I’m very well. Thank you. How are you?

John Holland:

I’m great. Thank you.

Rose:

Excellent. So, I just want to jump straight into this and get to know John Holland. Let’s look at how John Holland as he is today came to be. So, let’s look at your childhood first. What was your childhood like as a gifted child?

John Holland:

Well, it’s the same story I tell. I was raised in a Catholic family, one of five kids. Three boys, two girls. And I was always the different one in the family, like many of your listeners probably too. What does that mean, Rose? I was very sensitive as a kid. I was a colicky baby. I was very sensitive. I spent a lot of time by myself. I basically was born drawing too. I never took a class, so I was very creative.

John Holland:

I knew things that I couldn’t possibly have known either. I was always fascinated by subjects like anything that had to do with spirits, religion, ghost, psychic powers. Or back then in my day, it was called ESP. So, I was excited about those things. I was excited about religious movies.

John Holland:

I’m not your average thing for a little boy. I wasn’t outdoors playing sports with my brothers. I was either drawing or reading. I was fascinated by chemistry. So, it seemed like science, religion, spirituality. I was always the different one in the family, and I was born with a highly tuned sense of intuition or psychic ability. I knew things I couldn’t even possibly have known. Who was going to come to the house unexpectedly. Who was sick in another state. So, things would come out of me. My dad would say to me, or to my mother, “Something is wrong with him.”

John Holland:

With society too, if you’re even then … If a kid is different, made to feel different, we hide it, Rose. We hide the ability. I didn’t want to be different. Not only was I different that way, I was skinny, big ears, a patch on my eye. Yeah, I was really different. I hid the ability or I pushed it down. Only my friends knew that I could do this as I grew up. They knew I was fascinated by the subject. They say, “Do that thing that you do.” And I will just tell them about something that just happened in their life, and then an automobile accident years later.

John Holland:

So, I still kept it a secret or pushed it down, and I didn’t just come out and tell people. An automobile accident made those abilities even stronger. And Rose, I have to change it. The accident didn’t make me psychic. The accident was a wake up call for me, and I got my life together. When I got my life together, I think I became aligned. Like Kundalini awakening, and that’s when all this ability started to just … It was really, really heightened. I felt this energy inside me.

John Holland:

I could see things, feel things. I didn’t know what was happening. Luckily, I had some education about psychic ability. So, I am a big advocate of … I have no problem being psychic. How do I shut it off? I studied everything I can on the mechanics of how this works. Chakras, auras, meditation, breath. I had to know that. Then I started getting into Reiki, into healing.

John Holland:

So little by little, I didn’t quit my day job. I kept it for years. I started reading tarot cards at an aromatherapy shop. I started to do pretty well at it. People started to get to know me there and I start to get the name. Still kept my day job.

John Holland:

What happened was two years into doing psychic work … Now, Rose, most of your audience, I assume, knows there’s a difference between psychic and mediums. There’s a difference. Every medium is psychic, but not every psychic is a medium. People are like, “Well, what do you mean?”

John Holland:

When you’re linking with people on the other side, they are using the … The transmission or the reception comes through my psychic senses whether you’re clairsentient, clairaudient, or clairvoyant. So, you have to be psychic. We all are, first of all. Some have a high potential.

John Holland:

Two years into doing reading, something different happen. I am reading cards and this woman I’m reading for, her name is Mari. I still remember. It’s in my first book, Born Knowing. She wanted to know about her career, her art, where was it going. It wasn’t really just a prediction thing. Just a little help on her schoolwork and her art where I saw what was developing.

John Holland:

And while I was reading for her, in my mind’s eye, Rose, or beside this client … She was a young girl. I saw an elderly woman. And her clothes didn’t match. Now, it’s not like the movies. It’s not like a mist happened. It was like I knew she was there, but she wasn’t there. It’s kind of hard to explain.

John Holland:

Her clothes didn’t match, and she was just pointing to her diamond. Just this older woman. And I’m looking at the woman, I’m looking at the client. I’m looking at the woman, I said, “Mari, there’s a lady beside you. Her clothes don’t match. I don’t know why I noticed that.” I said, “Her clothes don’t match, and she showed me a diamond ring.”

John Holland:

Well, she screamed, I screamed. She got up and hugged me. I hugged her and I said, “What was that?” And she said, “My great Aunt Ada who helped raise me was colorblind.” There’s the clothes and she said, “The diamond I’m wearing right here, John, is the ring she gave me that I inherited when she passed away.” So I said, “Okay, wait a minute. So, what is this?”

John Holland:

And then it started to happen more and more. Every time I went to do a reading for someone and would come their relatives. And I didn’t just take that, Rose. But think about it. If my first book came out in 2000, this happened about 2020, over 20 years ago. There wasn’t a lot of mediums. There wasn’t a lot of books.

John Holland:

So, I believe in synchronicity, Rose. I believe that when you follow … I’m all about the soul and all the abilities. When you follow what your soul is trying to tell you, doors open. So, I read every book I could on mediumship in Los Angeles. All the books that I could find were old books from England, the spiritualist in England.

John Holland:

Even though spiritualism started in the States, when I went to England, it stayed there and it went big. And I said, “Gee.” There were these old books of mediums’ lives from days gone by and I said, “Wow.” And I wasn’t really reading how to. I wanted to know why is this happening, how do these people live their lives, how do they deal with this.

John Holland:

So, two weeks into reading the books, I’m at a party, I step on a person’s foot. Remember, I did say, “If I could only go to England and study with these people.” Two weeks into reading these books, I’m at a party, I step on a person’s foot. Where are they from? From England. I stepped on this guy’s foot and he’s like, “Hello.” And I said, “Oh, are you Australian? Are you Irish?” And he’s like, “Oh, I’m British.” And I said, “Okay.”

John Holland:

I started talking and I got invited over. He had a space and one thing led to another and that’s when it all started. I went over there and studied for two and a half years with a spiritualist developing in a meditation. I went to the Arthur Findlay School, which is Stansted where they train mediums. I went to all the churches. I didn’t go to England to go look at the castles in London to go see the Queen. I knew I had a mission, and that’s how it started. One thing led to another and there you have it.

John Holland:

One thing led to another and a book. I mean six books, television, radio show. I never set out to do this work, but usually people who have ability of that strong, you’re going to see it as a kid. There’s some type of sign that something was happening there. But some people are born with a high potential for this work, and some people aren’t.

John Holland:

And by the way, I did say, let me just help you out. I did say psychic and mediumship. Let me just finish that sentence. So, a psychic, Rose, as I’m looking at you, I’m reading you, your past, your present, your potential future. I don’t think it’s all set in stone.

John Holland:

So, as I’m looking at you, I start just seeing some colors. So, I’m reading your aura. I’m not getting the information on the other side. When mediumship happens, I’m not with you anymore. People on the other side have to come through. So, psychics perceive, mediums receive. There is a difference.

Rose:

Absolutely.

John Holland:

And I had to learn the difference between both and I teach my students the difference, because it can be kind of hard to say, “Is this psychic, or is this mediumship?” But luckily, I got that education. When I went to England, they’re all about evidence. Evidence. You can’t give that foo-foo. “Oh, your mother is here. Your grandmother is here, she brushed …” They are very evidential mediums to prove the continuity of life, and that resonated with me, and that helped me so much.

Rose:

Absolutely. I think we need to set that. That sort of is testament to the number of … I don’t want to necessarily go down the frauds kind of path, but that is sort of rife in your industry, right? There’s a lot of people claiming that they have these abilities when they don’t. So, how would you … For our listeners, how would you suggest that they go into a reading? You don’t want to go in skeptical, but you also don’t want to go in …

John Holland:

Yeah. A couple of years ago, Hay House, my publisher called me. Everyone knows them usually. They said, “So, do you think you have another book in you?” I thought I was done. Because how many times can you say the dead or alive? How many times can you say it? So, I said, “Okay.” So, that was Hay House’s way of saying, “You really need to write a book.”

John Holland:

I said, “Well, what are people asking for right now?” If you notice, a lot of … There’s two words. There’s mediums popping up everywhere. The word empath is huge now, and the word soul. I said, “Okay.” I wrote the first part of Bridging Two Realms: Learn to Communicate with Your Loved Ones on the Other-Side. Four people who have about to lose someone, who have lost someone.

John Holland:

And from my 20 years of doing this work, I wrote about what happens before somebody passes away, during the process, and after. And then I go into … So, you are looking for a medium, and I always tell people, always word of mouth. And I break it down for the reader, and I also break it down, if you want to be a medium, this is what … With my education, this is what you should be doing.

John Holland:

I always tell people, Rose, go by word of mouth. The medium shouldn’t be asking you questions.Not like this. Sometimes I’ll ask a question, but it’s really a statement. If I said to you, Rose, “Did you lose a grandmother? Yes, I did. Oh, she’s right here.”

John Holland:

You just told me she passed away. The medium should be saying, “I feel a grandmother figure. I feel like she’s making me aware that she’s on your mother’s side. She’s talking about she has three daughters and your mother is one of them. A sibling of your mother’s that has passed, that’s with her.” Evidential. It’s okay to work with a medium, but it’s usually, “Yes, no, I don’t understand.”

John Holland:

And the medium may get something that they don’t understand. It’s okay, because people are afraid to talk sometimes. They’re like, “Can I say something?” I said, “Yes. As long as I gave you the evidence first.” It should be evidential. There’s all kinds of mediums. Some are very heart centered, some are in your face, and it shouldn’t be general. It shouldn’t be something like this. “I’m picking up someone who passed from cancer, who’s that?” I don’t know. You’re the medium. You tell me who it is. Do you see what I mean?

John Holland:

So, I can be a tough teacher. I can have fun with my students, and I can play with my audience only to keep the energy up, but it should be evidential. All right? Evidential. And not everyone is going to be the same in their work, but they should give who the person they’re linking with, what’s the relationship, how did they pass, and maybe what was the age that they pass, how long ago. And then more information should be coming.

John Holland:

If you are talking to someone’s mother, if you are really linking with someone’s mother, you should be getting information that, that child would understand. It’s some stuff should come through, Rose, that only the mother and the daughter could possibly have known. Do you understand?

Rose:

Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned your students then. So, I just want to talk about your teachings and your courses and those kinds of things. Let’s look at being a medium or honing your psychic abilities. So, if you’re not born with the gift, the medium gift, can you get that?

John Holland:

I mean, you all know who John Edward is obviously down in Australia. You know the man. And he’s a good colleague of mine. He says that, and I like his word. I always give credit where credit is due. These are his words.

John Holland:

He doesn’t like to call it a gift. I will say it in my soulwork, empower the soul. We all have gifts, talents and abilities. He says that he doesn’t like to call it a gift, because it means that he has something that somebody else doesn’t. We all have the potential for this. I was born with the high potential for it, meaning it was already there. Whether it was in the past life, or I was born this way.

John Holland:

They feel like this is supposed to be a medium or get into it. They have a lower potential. Meaning, they have to just work hard. I used to say too, Rose, in England. I was trained by the mediums. I heard them say mediums aren’t made, they’re born. And I went, “Wow. Mediums aren’t made, they’re born.” And I started to believe that.

John Holland:

But then, as time went on, I saw that people who weren’t born with it or have a low potential for it just had to work harder, and they can be just as good. It just takes a little more studying, a little more work. Yeah, but we all have it. We’re all born intuitive, Rose. We all are. How old is your son that you said? How old is he?

Rose:

He’s one.

John Holland:

Oh, bless. Okay. All right. So, kids, as they go around four or five, they’re playing, they’re coloring, they’re running, they’re laughing. I think they have one foot still on the other side and one foot here. Everything is joyful for them hopefully. And then they start school. Kids are born with that right side, the creative side, the drawing. And kids see the world as it really is.

John Holland:

So, if your kid is saying something, listen to your kid, because it’s probably the truth. So, when kids go to school, they’re about five, six, however old, they start … The left side of the brain comes in, because we have to listen to the teacher, understand math, spelling. So, that creative, beautiful right side gets pushed aside. And we forget about that side. It gets so pushed aside, and life has a way of doing it too. Because as you get older, you also have to trust logic. Logic, not that intuitive stuff.

John Holland:

And it’s funny. Isn’t it funny, Rose? You could say the word psychic. People are like, “Oh, mumbo jumbo.” When you say intuition, they’re like, “Oh, yes, I have that.” See, it’s just the word. Everyone is born with it. And I think it’s a calling, Rose.

John Holland:

I believe that a lot of people are touching the realms on the other side lately. I think the consciousness of man is changing. Some people said, “John, is it changing? Or is the veil on the other side is getting thinner?” I think our consciousness is … We’re changing as a race.

John Holland:

Look at the world. I mean, we’re very sensitive creatures now. Some people don’t even know that they’re intuitive. They just think that, “Why am I uncomfortable around people?” Because you’re empathic. Do you understand? So, I think that people are … Sometimes, you can be with a friend, Rose, right? And somebody could say … Say there are two friends, and one friend is gone. I keep hearing the name Jake, Jake, Jake. And their friend goes, “That’s my dad. He passed away.”

John Holland:

So, the person who says that starts to see. Maybe they’re touching the other side. Does that mean you’re going to be a medium? Does that mean you should go be a medium? If you’re good at plumbing, does that mean you’re going to go be a plumber? Maybe the ability is getting heightened in us. Maybe it’s for your own sake or for those around you. It doesn’t mean always to go be a medium. And if you’re going to be a medium, it’s a life of service.

John Holland:

People forget that. It’s a life of service. Not to be a star. I never set out just to be like, “Look at me.” You have to feel the calling for. And if you feel like, “No, I really want to help people,” that’s the number one answer when I ask my students. “Why are you taking the class? Why do you want to be a medium?” It should be to serve. To help as many people as I can. Yeah.

Rose:

Absolutely. So, for those people who do feel that calling, do you have any quick … I know you’ve got a whole course on this, but do you have any quick tips that you can give people just starting out?

John Holland:

Understand why it’s happening. You are the vessel. You’re one big psychic antenna. Whether you call yourself an intuitive, we can’t help it. Everyone can walk into a room, they know if something happened in the room. You know when you meet somebody for the first time, Rose, you like them or you don’t.

John Holland:

So, understand how is that happening. Oh, it’s intuition. How is it happening? It’s happening because your aura is expanding. Their aura is blending with yours and it hits that certain psychic reception area. Understand the mechanics of how it works, because doing this work, it makes you very sensitive. The price of sensitivity is sensitivity. Do you like that?

John Holland:

Some students are like, “I’m so sensitive with this work.” Well, welcome to doing this work. All right. I say learn the mechanics of how it works and try to get ahold of quieting your mind with some type of meditation. It doesn’t mean ringing a bell, or a gong, or lighting incense singing. (singing) It’s just quieting your mind. And if you can’t sit and do one, do a walking meditation. Look at a candle. Do one with the breath. Look at a mandala. There’s many. You got to still your mind.

John Holland:

How can any intuitive information, nevermind the other side, come into your mental space if there’s so much noise in there? And isn’t there a lot of noise in our heads lately between what’s going on in the world, technology, emails, bells, whistles? So, yeah, understand the mechanics of how this works. Understand your psychic faculties first.

John Holland:

And then at the mediumship, then you’ll understand how to turn it on and how to turn it off. You should be the master of your abilities. It should not be the master of you. So, if the student say, “I can’t sleep at night. The dead people are here. I see them everywhere.” Then they’re untrained. I do not walk around seeing the dead. It only happens because I trained myself when I’m supposed to do this work. Or a strong spirit is trying to get my attention to do something give a message. Yeah.

Rose:

I think that’s an interesting point as well, because a lot of people do assume mediums just walk around bumping into dead people wherever they go. So, that’s a really good point. Now, I just want to go back to what we were talking about, about children having one foot in and one foot at the other side. It sort of goes back to what you said about your childhood being psychic or a bit spiritual. It wasn’t really accepted, but I actually think as we move forward in what you’re talking about, our consciousness is opening and our awareness and all those kinds of things.

John Holland:

Sure.

Rose:

What would you go about saying to parents who have identified …

John Holland:

God, I love you. Good interview, girl. Yes, you are. In my book, I think it is the Spirit Whisperer. There’s a whole section for teachers and parents for the kid who’s sensitive, for the kid who’s saying, “Mommy, there’s an old man in my room. Mommy, I’m seeing lights.” Or the kid is waking up because they’re seeing something.

John Holland:

I’m not talking about night terrors. That’s a whole nother thing. I always tell parents and teachers, “You get an education first on how it works, so you can teach it to your child.” If a parent understands, “Okay, there’s three abilities, clairsentient, clairvoyant, clairaudient. To hear, feel and see or cognitive.” Just to know.

John Holland:

If they get an education of the mechanics, it’s going to be easier to tell the kid. You know how they have pageant mothers? The pageant mothers. I guess you have that in Australia too.

Rose:

Yeah, absolutely.

John Holland:

Yeah. They push their kid and it’s just a little girl. Let your kid be a kid. One time I met a couple of parents. This happened some time ago. The kid was very psychic. The kid had to be about 10, 11. Eight, nine, 10, 11, something like that. And the mother was like saying, “Show them what you do.” It’s like, “Let the kid be a kid. And tell the kid that it’s nothing to be afraid of, that it’s a natural ability like playing music, art.”

John Holland:

They can’t. They don’t have to tell everybody that they’re sensitive, but it’s a gift actually. That kid can use that ability in school, life, whatever and play some games with them. What I think it is too. Rose, do you have any other kids?

Rose:

No.

John Holland:

Okay.

Rose:

Just one.

John Holland:

All right. Say you have a five, six, seven, eight, it doesn’t matter. A little kid. All right. Say you have two kids or a friend. A good intuitive game, because you don’t want to tell the kid to shut it off, but you can show them that it’s not scary. You have two kids sit back to back. So, someone is sitting behind the …

John Holland:

Say I’m a kid and their back is to mine. You have three crystals, or three marbles, or three crayons in front of all the same color. Tell one kid, “Pick one, hold it and see if you can send what you’re holding to the kid whose back is against you, and see if they can start matching up the crystal.”

John Holland:

You see, that’s telepathy. Yep. And if you have a child, and this is a good tip for you, Rose, when your kid gets around four or five. If your kid is very sensitive, which they all are, you can teach a kid to turn down their lights. What do I mean by that? So, we have energy centers. It’s the spiritual batteries. We’re physical beings and spiritual beings.

John Holland:

So, you know Rose about the third eye. You know about the throat center, the heart center. So, if you teach a kid that we have these special buttons, and you could … Before the kid goes to bed, if the kid is young enough, because some kids don’t touch. You tell the kid to turn down their lights. Their fore headlight, the throat, the heart. Not shut off or close down. You never want to tell someone to close down their throat. See? Because I’m also a hypnotherapist too. It’s the way you word it.

John Holland:

Tell them to turn down their light or to close the flowers if it’s a girl. It’s going to make the kid less sensitive. And they might not even understand it, but by them just imagining a color getting smaller in a location, I think it’s actually going to help them be less receptive. You can never shut down an energy center, but you certainly can dim it or heighten it when you need to. Or it happens on its own, actually. Yeah.

Rose:

Absolutely. I think on the flip side of that, we’re talking about parents who are supportive and maybe too supportive, over supported. But what about the children whose parents are devout Catholic? Obviously, you spoke about your parents being Catholic, so I’m not sure how they embraced it. But what about the parents who are definitely not on the spiritual side, and the kid always feels like they have to come out or hide their abilities and those kinds of things? What would you say to those kids? And these are probably older kids, teenagers and those kinds of things.

John Holland:

Because I was made fun of, I just kept it a secret. I really believe, Rose, what you put out, you get back. I really believe in what you put out and you get back. And it’s hard if a parent, especially if there’s a religion, or religious faith that goes with that.

John Holland:

I think that the kid could do his own research, but the parents find it … It’s hard, Rose. It’s a balancing thing. There are other places where kids could look. Now, every kid is on the internet now too, though, but you got to be careful. Because you don’t if what group you’re joining is something.

John Holland:

I think if that kid puts it out there, I think there’s going to be … I think there’s going to be more kids. Say you have a 16 year old, a 14 year old, I think there are more kids around him or her that is into this more so than you think. All right?

John Holland:

What you put out, you attract. So, it’s okay to share it with your friends that you can trust. Share with your friends, and they’ll be like, “Oh my god, I felt the same way. I didn’t want to say anything.” Stick to people that you can trust. Yeah, close friends. I only could tell close friends. So, yeah, that’s a good one. I mean, I don’t get often that, Rose. That’s why you are number one on numerology.

Rose:

There you go.

John Holland:

Yep. But I would tell the kid or the teenager that if they have no one around them, if they can read something, or as they get older, they’ll be able to find their path to where they’re supposed to go. The soul even knows where that child is supposed to go. It will try to lead it to the people and situations in their life for its highest good.

Rose:

And that actually links back to what you were talking about before about synchronicity and things happening to lead you on this path. So, let’s talk about you, again, about was there really any other path for you?

John Holland:

Was there what?

Rose:

Was there really any other path for you, career wise?

John Holland:

Do you mean how it came to be or how I followed it?

Rose:

Yeah. I suppose I mean, could you have ever seen yourself in any other industry or career or anything?

John Holland:

No. I always was like this in the accident, and I believe that your soul, the real you, your true essence, pure consciousness, not the person you look in the mirror and see that’s just your body. You are a soul. You’re a soul that comes with the body, not a body that comes with a soul. You’re a soul that comes with the body, not a body that comes with a soul. You are a soul long before you came here. You’re going to be a soul long after you leave here.

John Holland:

I believe that your soul tries to get your attention in this life through dreams, intuition, synchronistic events, but we don’t pay attention to them. I was living in LA. I was a young man. Not doing I was supposed to. I had those signs come to me.

John Holland:

Living a life in my late ’20s. You know what it’s like, living in LA. And then I had the automobile accident. It was raining that night. That was my wake up call. I didn’t complain. I walked away from a car race that was crushed, the whole front of it, and I walked away without a scratch.

John Holland:

Now, I could have just said, “Oh, lucky about that.” And then went right back to the kind of life that I had. I knew. I looked up to the sky, God, the universe, he, she, the source, and I just said, “Thank you.” Never complained. Never complained.

John Holland:

There was a relationship that I was in for six years that should have ended a long time ago. I got my life together and I got my own place, the relationship. That’s when all the abilities started to happen. And I started to follow the signs. The ability happened, and then I was invited to England. How could I go to England if I was still working? Who’s going to pay my rent?

John Holland:

I worked for a flagship hotel. The flagship closed at the time now. And I said, “How am I going to go to LA? How am I going to afford my apartment?” Even though it was small, a friend of mine from … I lived in LA and she called me from Boston. She said, “Johnny, Debbie said that you want to move to England. I want to be a writer and move to California. If you go to England, can I rent your apartment and pay your rent while you’re gone? And I went, “Oh my god.”

John Holland:

So, it’s like stepped on the foot, met Simon, got invited over, my work ended. She took over my apartment. I got to go to England. And here’s something now. And someone would be like, “It’s a coincidence.” No, I don’t believe in coincidences.

John Holland:

Now, you know Rose. You’ve traveled outside Australia. You have to get a visa sometimes, right? So, in the States, we let people stay here for six months. No, if you go to England, they let you stay there for six months, you get to leave the country, stay out for three months, then come back in.

John Holland:

After doing that a couple of times, I said, “I don’t want to keep doing this.” I wish I could stay. My friend, Simon’s colleague said, “John, apply for a student visa in my company, and you get a year visa.” I applied, and I get a letter in England, and it says, “Dear, John.” It said, “We cannot give you this visa because the US is not one of the countries that we honor for this type of student visa.” And I said, “Oh, okay.”

John Holland:

So, there it is, the letter, now saying no, I can’t have it. But in the envelope was the visa. A full visa for a year with my name, and it was embossed. So, I had a letter saying no, but in the letter, but in the envelope was the visa. Now, come on. So, do you think that I called immigration and said, “Oh, did you make a mistake?” I got that visa, and I got to stay there.

John Holland:

And then I was on the show Unsolved Mysteries got a hold of me. I went to Boston. I started to get a name. Then Hay House found me and I was signed with them in a month. I mean, writers hate when I say that. It was all meant to be one thing after another, after another, because I was following the signs, Rose. I followed what I was supposed to.

John Holland:

Now, your soul tries to show you a lot of things. Lots of times, we turn away from it, don’t listen to it, or don’t even know it’s our soul trying to get your attention. Your soul might be saying, “Here you go.” And you give it a kick in the ass and say, “You know what? No.”

John Holland:

So, I followed, I trusted and things just not to happen. And if it doesn’t happen for you, it just means that it’s not happening for you right now. Then there’s another door that’s going to open. So, one thing, Rose. It was just I could never see this.

John Holland:

I started doing readings one on one, and then I said to someone, “I want to start doing readings of 10, small groups. Well, that didn’t happen. I went to a bookstore. I started doing people of 30. Then I was signed for Hay House. I went from doing one on ones, to 30, to 800, to 2,000, to over 3,000 people with the Hay House audiences.

John Holland:

And I had to learn. And the people on the other side, “You can’t be in front of an audience of 3,000 people and say I have a father here who passed from … You’ve got to be so accurate to think about that one person out of 3,000 people.” So, I feel like those on the other side were training me. So, I can go to an audience on a good day and just go to somebody with some outrageous evidence.

John Holland:

I was in Arizona, and the audience was 2,100 people and I said, “I’m coming to somebody here. I have a grandfather who’s coming to his grandson, and he’s talking about in his casket, you put the chess piece in his pocket and in his casket.” And in my head, I’m like, “Oh, damn. Oh my god.”

John Holland:

And sure enough, a kid raised his hand. I always make sure I said, “So, let me get this right. You have a grandfather who passed and you put a chess piece in his pocket in the casket?” He’s like, “Absolutely.” I said, “Can I ask why?” He said, “Because he taught me chess.” Now, I don’t know chess. And I said, “Well, what was the chess piece? And I guess it was the highest one. Is it the queen or the king? I don’t know.” And then it went into the message.

John Holland:

So, there’s not too many people in an audience of 2,100 that put a chess piece in their grandfather’s pocket. So, that’s how I work with bigger audiences. Yeah.

Rose:

Yeah. I was going to say that, that’s really interesting. You mentioned on a good day. So, do you have bad days? And what does that feel like?

John Holland:

I never beat myself up. After doing this work, sometimes they’re stellar, sometimes it’s good. I can walk away and say, “That’s the best that I can do. It’s not just up to me.” I’m always fascinated by this. I never say, I told him I got the chess piece. I know. Was it me? Or was the information given? I give those on the other side the credit. They’re the ones that are giving me the information. I’m just the vessel.

John Holland:

So, when I hear people say, “Well, I did this. I got that.” And I say to them, “Did you get it? Or was it given?” You see? So, it’s a three way link. It’s me, the people in front of me, or the client, or the recipient, and those on the other side. It’s a three-way link. All right?

John Holland:

So, I know you can see me here on YouTube, but on the radio, from spirit, the people on the other side, through spirit, me, my own spirit, to spirit. From spirit, through spirit, to spirit. And when everything is in sync, if the audience is in good form, I’m in good form, they’re in good form on the other side. There’s all kinds of audiences, Rose.

John Holland:

I walked into some audiences, and I might be in a conference hotel where there’s cement cylinders, no energy whatsoever. It’s up to me. I got to get that energy up in the audience, because the way it works is I raise my energy, those on the other side lower theirs. Then there’s a blending process. You see?

John Holland:

So, I tell people, “If you’re going to be a medium, you have to be the maestro and conductor of every sitting you do, or every demonstration you do.” And of course, I’m nervous. When I was in Australia twice, I love you people. Fine people, and I miss Australia. I did Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne twice. I was down to a Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Robert Holden, Denise Linn, I love it. I was with Hay House, Leon.

John Holland:

It was my first time going to Australia. I was in the States. Of course, I was nervous. Different country, different people, different history, different ways, different references. So, I just imagined that I was in the audience, I was on stage in Australia, because I believe in affirmations and visualizing as if it was happening now.

John Holland:

So, I saw myself on stage, I saw the messages flowing, I saw the audience clapping. That’s exactly what happened. I walked out there with a couple thousand people. I said, “Hello, Australia.” And it was just beautiful.

John Holland:

Yeah, so if the audience is in good form, the medium is in good form, and those on the other side, it’s like a perfect cocktail, and it’s beautiful. But think about it, does the audience influence it? Yes. If you’ve got an audience that all arms folded, or people brought people they didn’t really want to be, that’s kind of hard to work with, bu I just do my best roles. I don’t beat myself up. I have an education. I know what I’m giving, and I know how to work with someone who says, “No, no, no.” Yeah.

Rose:

Yeah. How do you manage people’s expectations? Because I imagine a lot of people come there with the expectation that this specific loved one is going to come through to them. And it doesn’t always happen, does it?

John Holland:

No, I have my speech. After years of doing this, I have my speech. I always tell people, if I … Now, you do it on Zoom, or I’ll do it in front of an audience when we go back to that, I’ll say to people. Remember, I use a little humor. I know, Rose, losing someone is not funny, but it raises the energy of the room.

John Holland:

To see a mother smile for the first time in months since her child passed, and sometimes people feel guilty laughing or smiling. People on the other side, they want us to go on. They want us to be happy until they see us again. We’re the ones that are still here. So, I’ll tell the audiences and I’ll say, “How many are here you’re hoping to hear from that one person? You want that one person to come through.” Of course, all the hands go up. I said, “Okay, let that go.”

John Holland:

I said, “Because I am not in control of it. It’s not 1-800 dial your daddy. Usually, they get who they want to hear from, but if you’re focused on your mother who’s passed, but you have an uncle that wants to come through or a grandmother, or if you’re married, that mother-in-law may come through. And people are like, “But I paid my money from my people.”

John Holland:

I am not in control of it. They are. You never know who’s going to come through. So, I say, “Just be open. Know who your people are on the other side as best as you can.” And all I say is expectation is listen to what I’m trying to say. That’s why when someone says, “No, too fast.” I’ll be like, “Let me help you with that.”

John Holland:

And then on a good day, I’ll say, “You know your husband’s side, he’s lost his mother, correct? And Rita is his mother’s sister.” How could you? So, if the medium just stops and gives in breeze and doesn’t get nervous. If you are talking to in spirit on the other side, you should be able to go back and say, “They don’t understand. Give it to me in another way.” And you got the answer.

John Holland:

So, I just say be open. I know they have expectations, and I’ll say Just relax. And I always say too, Rose, if it’s a one on one or a small group, if it’s not working 10 minutes in, I end it. Fluff it. No charge, no worries. I’d rather be respected that way, and then try it, and then have them come back and try it again, because it’s not always going to work. It usually does, but every once in a while, it might not be the right time for reading for somebody.

Rose:

Absolutely. Is there a reason that one person would show up over another person? Say for example, I was coming to you and I will say, “Okay, I want to hear from my grandfather.” And then my uncle showed up. Is there a reason?

John Holland:

Some come through, and if you listen as opposed to just the evidence, I used to be very evidential based. I still am as best as I can, but there’s more of a message there. Why is this person coming? Why?

John Holland:

If a grandmother comes through, say your grandmother comes through on your mother’s side and your mother’s brother is here. That grandmother may come through to you to tell the mother to keep an eye on the brother. There’s always usually a reason. I was doing a small group of eight once. Some people get, and I tell the audience this, sometimes you may get someone who you don’t want to hear from.

John Holland:

If it’s so emotional, I tell the people, “Look, if it’s too hard for you, I can just drop the phone, cut the link.” I was with this group, and I gave the evidence. I forget what the woman’s … I’ll just say Helen. I said, “I have a woman here named Helen. She’s talking about esophageal cancer. So, would anyone … I feel like there’s a mother connection.” I said to this woman I was drawn to, I said, “Would you understand that?” She goes, “Yeah, I know who she is. What does she want?” And I went, “Oh.” I said, “Is this like a mother?” She goes, “It’s my mother-in-law.”

John Holland:

The mother-in-law was not nice to her the whole time she was here. She was still married to her son, the woman Helen, and she just didn’t get along with the daughter-in-law. That mother-in-law came through to apologize. To apologize how she treated her, and that’s all she wanted. But who opened the door for the rest of the night for her? The mother-in-law. The mother-in-law was the one that stepped forward who started off the reading.

John Holland:

I always play and say … Maybe the mother-in-law is on the other side saying, “Can I go first? I have to apologize.” Then I’ll open the door and let you all in. The mother is the one who started off the reading, who set the tone for the rest of it. And she started crying because the mother never apologized or the mother-in-law never apologized to her, so that’s special.

Rose:

That is special. It’s so funny. As we’re talking, John, we spoke at the start about why you got into this and why other people should get into it. It’s to help people. And every story you’ve told, it’s showing that, that is just the theme that runs through everything.

John Holland:

Yeah. Before I moved to LA, I was on that show. I started getting really known fast. I still kept the day job. I keep saying that, because I don’t want people to quit their job until they’re established. I was tired emotionally, physically. It was a lot spiritually. I was just exhausted. And I said, “Can I keep doing this?” I questioned it. I questioned it. Every time I question it, a parent who would needed help who had lost someone would step in front of me or come to me somehow some way.

John Holland:

When the reading is over, it’s just a little slap in the head from them to say, with the greatest respect, to say … When that reading happens or a reading like that, I say, “Okay, that’s why I’m doing this.” So, here it is. Let’s see. Okay. 20, 25 years now, over two decades. And somebody said to me the other day in an interview. “So John, how do you feel about being a pioneer in this work?” And I went, “Oh, what? Pioneer in this work? It made me feel old.” Okay, I don’t say old, I say older. I’m like, “Really?” He goes, “John, don’t you consider yourself a pioneer in this industry? You’ve been going since …”

John Holland:

And I thought about it, I said, “Well, I guess I am. If my first book came out in 2003 17 years later, which is freaking me out.” So, I’m honored to do this work. And there’s a lot of work too that people don’t realize too, Rose, that I do for free. I do a lot of animal charity work where they get the money, and I got one coming up to help raise $145,000 for animals to have surgeries for the local law animal shelter. Yeah.

Rose:

Oh, wow. That’s wonderful. Do you get people to donate to that? Because we can put some links in the show notes.

John Holland:

Yep. What they’re doing is … I don’t know when this is going to play, but the event is in December in a couple of weeks. There’s a raffle. I’m going to do a Zoom live. I usually do something every year in front of people for them, but they’re going to do a Zoom where I’ll do an afternoon of clairvoyance. When you come on, I’ll get to see you. And they’re selling raffle tickets for five bucks or 10 bucks for a chance to have a private reading with me. If the timing works before it is, then that’s great.

Rose:

Absolutely. We’ll be publishing this Friday, so I’ll definitely put those links in for you.

John Holland:

You have to give back, Rose. You know what I mean? You have to give back. I am so blessed by spirit that I can do this for them, that I can have a life doing, a teaching and writing, and doing this work. You have to give back. I am a big believer in what you put out, you receive. I don’t give to get. The universe will take care of you anyway. When your company, it’s Numerologist.com.

Rose:

Yes.

John Holland:

I was flattered because I tapped into numerology years ago and I always say to students too. Once you understand the way numbers work, you will never look at the numbers the same way again. I keep a number eight in my wallet. I do, for funding.

Rose:

It’s really funny, because before we came on, I was just talking about my nonspiritual husband who this morning woke up feeling very anxious about work. And he asked me to pull a card for him and I actually used your card deck, and I pulled …

John Holland:

Psychic tarot.

Rose:

I pulled the number eight for him, which is crazy. I didn’t know that you … So, let’s quickly talk about numbers. We don’t have much time left, but how do you use numbers in your practice?

John Holland:

I use them personally. I’ll look at numbers and my favorite number is 149. I see that number everywhere. Everywhere. Numerology, you can add them up. You could take the one before the nine, you can reverse them. I thought it meant to play that number in the lottery.

John Holland:

So, after spending so much and I’m like, “Okay.” I noticed that, that number comes up when I’m about to do something, either psychic or mediumship work. Now, I’m not superstitious where I have to see that number before I do it, but I notice that number.

John Holland:

And you could add it up to nine and 10, 15, six. I try to focus on what was I’m just thinking before I saw that number. A lot of people say, “John, what does 11-11 mean?” Well, it breaks down to four, which is foundation, or they call it the angel number. And I try to tell people too, “What were you thinking just before you saw that number?”

John Holland:

I use numerology. I’ll say it like this to somebody, Rose. I’ll tell people it’s a great way to jump into a reading. You could give me a color, or I could give three numbers. Just really quickly, Rose. Give me three numbers at the top of your head.

Rose:

Three, six, nine.

John Holland:

Three, six, nine. So, three meaning family, unity, trinity. Six is like schooling to me. Nine. Would you say nine?

Rose:

Yeah.

John Holland:

Nine is endings. Okay. For the new beginning. I could look at it as here too. You got the three, the family, you got the middle. Five and six, for me numerology wise, is always a weird number. I can do one, two, three, four, the eight, nines and 10. I always look at five and six as a balancing number. Like it’s right there in the middle. Yep. So, you’re balancing your work, that’s the nine.

John Holland:

I would take that nine not in a bad way. Some things may go away. I don’t know what other job you work, Rose. Or is this your main job? Or is this something else? I feel two jobs. Luckily guys, she’s staying right where she is, but there’s going to be something else here.

John Holland:

So, family is important, the learning. So, it’s either a balancing family and work right now because you got that little kid. You said he’s one. So, it’s balancing work. And I think the nine, I think something is going to be ending to make room for something else. So, that’s how I’ll jump into a reading on the radio.

John Holland:

I just love looking at them when I see addresses. I look at it. I look at certain dates, and I’m not so superstitious sometimes. But if I’m doing a special event or something, I will see what the day, the month and the year comes to. I’m like, “Oh, perfect.” I have a site, My Soul Community that I launched. The membership was closed. It launched on a one. And I said, “Okay, great.” I didn’t even plan it that way. I said, “Oh, I didn’t even do the numbers on it.”

John Holland:

But Glynis McCants, she’s a numerologist. She used to be a stand up comic. She was on my radio show at Hay House for a number of years. She can do numbers front and back and so fast, where you’re headed, your soul number, where you’re going. So, I love numerology and you will never … And I have never looked at numbers the same way again. They’re not just numbers to me, neither are colors.

Rose:

You are so right there. I think once you know how to do the numerology and add them and make the sermon and all those kinds of things, you will do it everywhere. So, anybody listening to this who hasn’t sort of looked at their own numbers and those kinds of things, I’m going to put a link in the show notes to find out about that.

John Holland:

Can I say one more thing?

Rose:

Absolutely.

John Holland:

I’m a 22. Okay? A master number. So, 11, 22 and 33.

Rose:

Yeah.

John Holland:

Now, think about this. For the people who are listening, you know numbers. So, the master number is 22. I can’t elevate or go there until my four. I have a solid foundation. And I say that. If my life is solid, my work is solid, I’m solid, I can resonate to that master number, that teacher number. Do you understand?

John Holland:

I don’t think anyone ever told me that. It just makes sense. It makes sense. And my friend, Simon who I stepped on his foot, not only is he a four, he’s a Virgo. So, he’s all about structure, bullet points, Excel spreadsheets, and he’s a Virgo. So, talk about details. Luckily, he’s not … Isn’t it funny, Rose? The gentleman who I stepped on his foot over 20 years ago is my manager.

Rose:

That’s crazy, isn’t it?

John Holland:

Yeah, you know it, because you [crosstalk 00:50:06].

Rose:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

John Holland:

Yeah. The guy, I stepped on his foot, he’s my manager all these years later. Yeah.

Rose:

Wow. All right. Well, John, it has been so nice to speak to you. I could literally speak to you all day.

John Holland:

I could talk to you forever. Thank you so much. I’ll give you the link about The Koda Fund, anything you want. Just go to johnholland.com. And there’s a lot of resource, Rose, there. The site tells you where I’m at. It’s not just about me, though. If you need help, there’s bereavement sites, stuff for children. A lot of organizations, therapists, it’s all there for you.

John Holland:

So, go to my frequently asked questions, and a lot of people can benefit. But Rose, you’re in love, so thank you so much. And I’m honored to be part of this. So, thank you.

Rose:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

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