The Crime Cafe

This week, the Crime Cafe presents Debbi Mack's interview with crime thriller author Elka Ray.

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Author Debbi Mack interviews thriller author Jame DiBiasio on the Crime Cafe podcast.

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Supporters get access to free books and stories, including my first novel, Identity Crisis, Donna Fletcher Crow's novel, A Very Private Grave, my short story "Jasmine", and advance looks at the third Sam McRae novel and my next release featuring a new protagonist. Along with all the perks you get as a supporter.

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Instead of the usual interview, this episode of the Crime Cafe features the Philip Marlowe radio episode “The Persian Slippers”.

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Coming soon! A sneak peek at my upcoming novel for Patreon supporters!

Author Debbi Mack interviews crime fiction and noir author Jason Michel on the Crime Cafe podcast.

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Author Debbi Mack interviews crime fiction author Phillip Thompson on the Crime Cafe podcast.

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The interview transcript is below, if you’d like to read it.

Or download the PDF copy and read it later.

Debbi: Hello everyone. This is the Crime Cafe, your podcasting source of great crime, suspense, and thriller writing. I’m your host, Debbi Mack and before I bring on my guest, may I remind you—like you have a choice—that The Crime Cafe 9 Book Set and Crime Cafe Short Story Anthology are available for sale on Amazon, Barnes & Nobel, Kobo, Apple, etc. You can find the buy links on my website, debbimack.com and also we have a Patreon campaign. If you make a $5 monthly donation, you will get access to a lot of really great content; short stories and, for an addition $5 per month, get a free copy of our Crime Cafe 9 Book Set. That’s nine novels for free. So, consider it please and you’ll get our endless gratitude as well. Okay, having said that, it’s my pleasure to introduce my guest, a Mississippi native, a Marine, a journalist and speech writer, as well as the author of four novels, Phillip Thompson. Hi Phillip, it’s great to have you on. Thanks for being here.

Phillip: Hi, Debbi. Thanks for inviting me.

Debbi: Sure thing! There is so much I could ask you, because you’ve done so many fascinating things, but let’s talk about your crime writing.

Phillip: Okay.

Debbi: Your first novel was, Enemy Within. Tell us about the story and that protagonist.

Phillip: Sure. That novel seems completely old now. I wrote it in the late 90’s and the protagonist is an ATF Agent named Wade Stuart, who’s investigating a white militia who is plotting to overthrow the governor of the state of Mississippi and also has a gun smuggling operation going. And Stuart who is investigating this kind of runs into a moral dilemma, but he starts to challenge his own thinking about the government that he works for, the government that he served and how that clashes with individual freedoms. And when I wrote it at the time, it was precipitated by something, an incident that I ran across on active duty and it made me start to think about, you know, what would really happen if Americans were confronted with individual freedoms, especially with gun rights? And this goes back, you know, 20 years. Back then it sort of seemed implausible if you will, but 20 years later it seems a little bit more relevant now than it did even back then.

Debbi: Yes, absolutely. It seems like a very timely issue.

Phillip: I thought it was then. It wasn’t so much then, but I think, you know years later…

Debbi: You were ahead of your time [laughs].

Phillip: Apparently it was, yeah.

Debbi: Well, I think that’s a very intriguing premise and I actually bought a copy of the story.

Phillip: Oh, okay.

Debbi: So, I’m looking forward to reading it.

Phillip: Thanks.

Debbi: Definitely. On your blog you mention you’ve tried to turn it into a screenplay, or did you turn it into a screenplay?

Phillip: Well, I have a draft. I’m not necessarily a screenwriter. I did teach myself how to write screenplays a few years ago and I had this grand idea, oh, I’ll just turn my first novel into a screenplay, which is a lot, lot harder than it sounds. It’s a completely different form; screenwriting is. You’ve got 120 pages and you have to…there are rules that you need to comply with. So, I have a draft, but it’s very rough, and I don’t think it’s quite ready for prime time yet.

Debbi: My sympathies are with you. I know what it’s like to try to adapt one’s own novel because I’ve done it.

Phillip: Right, you’re a screenwriter yourself.

Debbi: It’s very, very tough, and I didn’t think I was going to be able to do it actually. The person who asked me, the producer said, I think you can. Go right ahead and I’m like okay [laughs]. It’s tough, it’s really, really tough. Now you have a second book with that protagonist. Tell us a little about that. The ATF agent left the agency and goes to Oahu?

Phillip: Yes, that’s the set-up of the story. The way the first novel ended, he had resigned from the ATF and just decided to go to Hawaii and get away from his former life and just sort of take some time off and got a job, well, sort of a job freelancing for the newspaper there on Oahu. And in the process of that, he comes across yet another homegrown domestic terrorist problem which that novel concerned itself with: the Hawaiian sovereignty movement that has been going on out in Hawaii.

Now, let me be very clear here, it was fiction, it was a novel. Nobody on Oahu, as far as I know, is contemplating that kind of thing, but I took the idea of, you know, the Hawaiian sovereignty movement as compared to the [whole of the] United States of America. I used to live in Hawaii. I was there for four years. When I lived there, I couldn’t help but be absorbed by the culture, studied it and came to realize that, hey, there is an issue here with the way that Hawaii became a state, and most of us today don’t even remember or don’t realize how that happened.

You know, Hawaii was a separate governing kingdom at one point and then it was annexed by the United States through a series of political and cultural events that happened and there’s still a lot of resentment, you know, within the Hawaiian culture toward the United States. So, I took all that and said, okay, what would happen if somebody was murdered aboard a Marine Corp base? You know, a United States federal property and then you take that and you throw in the politics of a sovereignty movement, you know, and then what happens?

You know, during the process of investigating this murder and trying to find out what happened, Wade finds himself, being a former Marine himself, being a man who believes in justice for all people, all these different moralities start to clash for him, and he’s aided in his investigation by a woman, an ATF agent, who’s sent from D.C. to basically clamp him down. They realize that we’ve got this former agent out there who caused us problems before and now he’s doing it again. So they send a hot shot out to Hawaii to kind of keep an eye on him, and she’s starts to see his point of view, as well.

And, in the end, they stop the plot and that book, I actually self-published that book because I had written it and I was working with an agent in New York and she liked it and we were working back and forth with it, but then September the 11th happened and there’s a scene in that book, it’s called A Simple Murder, there is a scene in that book that after September the 11th, you know she and I both agreed, nobody wants to read this, nobody wants to touch it. So, I just laid the book down for about six years, and I didn’t do anything with it. Eventually, I published it myself. But that book to me is important, because that was the last book that I wrote with Wade Stuart as a protagonist, but it was the first one with Molly McDonough who ends up kind of jumping universes into my last two novels.

Debbi: Yes, yes. Wow, you really have me intrigued. I’ve got to read all these books now [laughs].

Phillip: And tell all your friends.

Debbi: Oh, definitely. I mean your work sounds fascinating. All this stuff with jurisdictional issues and sovereignty, that kind of resonates with me as a lawyer, not to mention as a crime writer.

Phillip: Right, right.

Debbi: Yeah. That kind of stuff really is intriguing. So, one of your characters in that book has been transponded over into the series with Colt Harper?

Phillip: Correct.

Debbi: Does she appear in the first book in that series?

Phillip: No, she doesn’t. She shows up in the second one and the one that I’m writing now. I have these characters, as you know, they stay in your head a long time, and I wrote the first Colt Harper novel, Deep Blood, and I wanted a new universe because I’d started out writing 20 to 25 years ago thinking that, oh, I can write these kind of, you know, male thriller type novels that guys like, and I was able to write them.

But the whole time I was, it didn’t quite resonate exactly the way I wanted it to, and I took some time off from writing and went into creative writing class down here at a community college to learn to craft a little bit more to just sort of, okay just to stop trying to create this stuff and let’s learn some craft and hone that craft.

And what I did, one of the authors that I was reading at the time was Larry Brown, who’s a native Mississippian and just an unbelievable writer, or he was anyway. Unfortunately, he’s passed, and reading his work fundamentally changed the way I approach writing. So I said, I want to write this kind of Southern fiction, but I like crime, so I am always going to be a crime writer. So, I went back to that.

So the first Colt Harper novel was Deep Blood, which is a character study as much as it is a crime fiction novel, you know the publisher kind of called it “redneck noir” when he read it and I kind of liked that phrase and kind of stuck with it. That’s kind of the way I see my writing. But the first one was Deep Blood and that’s where I introduced Colt Harper and a new cast of characters that just would not leave me alone. So I wrote the second one, which is, Outside the Law, that’s the one that’s out now. That one was published by Brash Books.

Debbi: Just out of curiosity you mentioned redneck noir, have you ever read Daniel Woodrell?

Phillip: I know the name and I’ve seen his books, but I’ve not picked him up yet.

Debbi: You should. Tomato Red is the one I’ve read by him and I really loved it and I think it definitely qualifies. I think you’d enjoy it.

Phillip: Right.

Debbi: Joe Lansdale?

Phillip: Yeah, yeah. I’ve read some of his.

Debbi: I love his work.

Phillip: Yeah, very good and kind of right in those lanes of what I try to do....

Author Debbi Mack interviews mystery author Daniella Bernett on the Crime Cafe podcast.

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The interview transcript is below, if you’d like to read it.

Or download the PDF copy and read it later.

Debbi: Hello everyone. This is the Crime Cafe. Your podcasting source of great crime, suspense and thriller writing. I’m your host, Debbi Mack. It’s a real thrill to be back for a fourth season of this podcast and before I get into introducing my guest, I would like to say two things. We have The Crime Cafe publications on sale on my website, debbimack.com under "Crime Cafe". You can find them at any retailer, online and if you happen to catch this podcast during July of 2018, they’re going for a special price on Smashwords. I mean a really low price, so check it out. And the second thing I wanted to say is we now have a Patreon page. If you want to support the podcast, there are all sorts of cool perks that go along with being a supporter, like early looks at novels and drafts and free short stories, video chats, that kind of thing. So, there is a lot there for people who support the podcast, including a free copy of the 9 book set if you support at the $10 or above level. So, having said that, let’s get to the podcast. Let’s get to our guest, our distinguished guest who is back for a second time; a return visit from Daniella Burnett who writes the Emmeline Kirby/Gregory Longdon series, mystery series. Welcome, Daniella. It’s great to have you back.

Daniella: Thank you very much. I’m glad to be here again.

Debbi: It’s wonderful to be here for a fourth season and to have you as well.

Daniella: Yes, your program is so delightful and you give so many people an opportunity to hear about different authors and their mysteries.

Debbi: I do my best [laughs].

Daniella: [laughs]

Debbi: Right now you have a third book out. Is that correct? And you’re working on the fourth one and getting it published.

Daniella: Actually the third book is out. The fourth book, The Checkered Past will be released on September 29th, and I’m actually working on Book Six at the moment.

Debbi: Okay, yeah. Of course, we’re always working on the book that’s way ahead of what’s being published [laughs]. Or, you know, yeah. But, so everything always feels a little out of whack timewise [laughs].

Daniella: Yes, it does a little.

Debbi: But, in any case, tell us a little bit about Book Three because I noticed that it gets into some dark secrets, as far as Gregory is concerned and Emmeline’s relationship with him.

Daniella: Okay, well Book Three was, From Beyond The Grave, which took place in Torquay along the English Riviera in Devon. There’s a change in dynamic in Emmeline and Gregory’s relationship so that’s why I decided to take them out of their usual environment, which is in London so that we could focus more on their relationship and the change in dynamic of it and as you mentioned, in that book Gregory has always had secrets but his secrets are taking a different turn and are impacting the dynamic of their relationship.

Debbi: Yes! And there’s a kind of a love triangle of sorts.

Daniella: Yes there is a woman from his past that causes conflicts and a lot of grief for Emmeline in, From Beyond The Grave.

Debbi: So that sounds intriguing and it ends up extending to a certain extent into Book Four.

Daniella: Yes, it does because I am leaving something hanging at the end there to intrigue my readers and make them want to go to four, which will be coming out in September.

Debbi: Yes!

Daniella: Certain questions are answered in Book Four, but more questions linger.

Debbi: My goodness! One of the things I was wondering, in Book Four you get into the very interesting subject of Nazi-looted art.

Daniella: Yes, I do. Book Four focuses on a looted Nazi painting and a former IRA Commander because as I was developing the story line for my book, I also learned that a number of IRA members were Nazi collaborators. So that worked very well in the storyline that I had in mind so I decided to connect the two and the looted Nazi painting has a connection to a former IRA Commander in my book.

Debbi: Interesting. That’s getting into some social commentary there and I was wondering if Book Three was anything like that. Do you get into that?

Daniella: Not really so much. As I said, Book Three, From Beyond The Grave, was really more of the changing relationship between Emmeline and Gregory. This one I decided to take a little bit…it’s not so much of a social commentary, but it does work on that aspect of the looted Nazi painting and this issue is still going on today that the victims of the Holocaust are still fighting to get their possessions back and it’s a hard fight.

Debbi: Yes, yes. I’ve been reading about that.

Daniella: Yes, I mean you see in the paper all the time about these families and the victims of the families that are still fighting to get their possessions.

Debbi: What prompted your interest in that? Was it reading about in the paper or was it something else?

Daniella: Well, I mean I’ve always had an interest in history and this issue in particular it angers me, as it should anger anybody.

Debbi: Yeah.

Daniella: And being Jewish it reinforces that, so it’s a very personal issue and I think it should be a personal issue for everybody.

Debbi: I agree. How much research did you do to learn about it?

Daniella: Oh, I’ve read a number of articles. I’ve dug into certain aspects of the IRA storyline and the Nazi-looted painting, just to help get the basic idea in my mind and to help formalize it so I’d have the history, so that I could work on my story based on that. On both of these issues, there are a lot of articles and books out there that you can easily find information about it.

Debbi: [agrees]. Sometimes I feel like a frustrated historian myself in that sense that we share an interest in that subject generally.

Daniella: Yeah.

Debbi: I love history.

Daniella: Yes.

Debbi: I almost thought about going into graduate studies in history.

Daniella: Well, I mean it’s important to learn history because it helps you understand why things are the way they are today, how they evolved. So, you have to learn the past to understand the present and the future.

Debbi: Yes, absolutely! I agree completely. And the things that have happened in the past are fascinating.

Daniella: And unfortunately certain things are repeating themselves. I mean you would think that they were…that people would have learned from that but certain things are still going on and still repeating themselves.

Debbi: Sadly, yes. Let’s see. Without revealing any spoilers, where do you see the series going from here?

Daniella: Oh, well…

Debbi: Since you’re working on Book Six [laughs].

Daniella: Yes, yes, I don’t want to give you too much so that you know to go on to the next one. Well, it’s still the evolving relationship with Emmeline and Gregory. She does still love him, but his secrets are a bit of a barrier there, you know, because Emmeline is a journalist and her core being is to find the truth and to see that justice is done. So she has some mixed emotions there. I mean she does love Gregory, but his secrets bother her quite a bit, especially because she’s always fighting for the truth and fighting to see that justice is done. On the other hand, I mean Gregory, yes he’s a jewel thief, he’s a criminal, but on the other hand he is a gentleman and so in that sense he understands the criminal, but you know murder is a line in his mind that should never be crossed and in that sense he’s the same as Emmeline, trying to find justice, ensuring the criminal is brought to justice. So, they do have similarities, but their differences also help to propel the story and to have offshoots and different tangents so there are lots of things spinning around in the back of my mind that I could do with the two of them because of their different backgrounds and their philosophies and also the man/woman relationship that also plays into it.

Debbi: He’s a fascinating character to me. They both are.

Daniella: Well, I am glad to hear that. That’s what I like to hear.

Debbi: I love their relationship actually. Gregory is the kind of person that you kind of want to strangle, but at the same time, you love him because he is that gentleman and he is…he sticks up for Emmeline so much and what can I say? They really do, as a couple; they really hit it off there on the page and in my mind. I can picture the guy, you know. You do such a great job of describing them and I can picture both of them so well and their relationship with the detective…

Daniella: Oh, Chief Inspector Burnell. Yes.

Debbi: Yes! It’s just priceless. It’s just wonderful stuff.

Daniella: Well I have a soft spot for Burnell. Of course, the law is the most important thing and he has to see that justice is done.

Debbi: Right!

Daniella: I like Burnell and that’s why I created the cat-and-mouse relationship with Gregory. That helps to propel my storylines as well.

Debbi: [agrees].

Daniella: Both, I mean they do clash, they do have conflict, but to a certain extent Burnell and Gregory do have a respect for one another.

Debbi: Precisely. It’s the way that they clash but can kind of join at various points to where they work together as well as against each other enough so that they aren’t just bashing each other over the head all the time.

Daniella: Oh, no.

Debbi: But just rub up against each other the wrong way sometimes. Gregory ultimately wins you over with his charm [laughs].

Daniella: That’s what I try.

Debbi: It’s funny, I don’t picture him physically this way, but I keep thinking of Cary Grant in, To Catch A Thief.

Daniella: Oh, well Cary Grant was one of my favorite actors. Cary Grant and Gregory Peck, so.

...

Debbi Mack interviews crime fiction author David Swinson.

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The interview transcript is below, if you’d like to read it.

Or download the PDF copy and read it later.

Debbi: Hi! This is the Crime Cafe, your podcasting source of great crime, suspense and thriller writing. Before I introduce our guest, I’d like to remind you to check out the Crime Cafe story collections; a boxed set and a short story anthology. They’re on my website, debbimack.com. Just click on the link “Crime Cafe” and you can get to the buy buttons there, as well as see our merchandise and other stuff that’s cool, and subscribe buttons, of course, to the podcast. Also, get ready for our Patreon launch. I’m setting up an online community for supporters of the Crime Cafe and there will be great perks for anybody who contributes and exclusive content if you contribute at a certain level. It’s not a very high level, either. So, it’s monthly contributions and I would greatly appreciate your support for that. When that comes out, I’ll let you know. In any case, without further ado, I would like to introduce my distinguished guest…

David: Oh geez!

Debbi: A really great author who writes wonderful crime fiction, David Swinson.

David: Hi!

Debbi: Hi, David. How’s it going?

David: Good, good.

Debbi: Excellent. I met you online after reading, The Second Girl. I found a review, I can’t remember where it was, but somewhere or other a review popped up for, The Second Girl and I was just captivated by it. Not only because it’s set in D.C., which is, you know, I live near D.C., arguably Columbia is a suburb of D.C.

David: Fairfax Station.

Debbi: Yeah, but it was just such a wonderful story with a great protagonist.

David: Thank you.

Debbi: Now reading Crime Song, which is a stunning and wonderful follow up. It’s excellent and I would like you to tell us more about Frank Marr and the series and how and why you developed this character.

David: Well, Frank Marr … I think The Second Girl was published in May of 2016 and then Crime Song, June of 2017 and then the third book is not coming out until February 2019. But prior to 2016, I mean Frank Marr was in my head seriously for years, I mean a long time. And I had written a couple of other books prior to The Second Girl and they got rejected and they were police procedurals and then I went back to Frank and said, listen I’m just going to have fun. I’m going to do something that’s so outside of me, and Frank Marr is totally outside of me. I mean, in certain ways I’d love to be like him. In certain ways I would not want to be like him at all. But nothing bothers him or affects him, I mean as far as like his habit and stuff like that. It’s like he’s almost blind to that kind of stuff.

But I just sat down and had fun and wrote it, and when I gave it to my agent with the other two books I had written, she goes, “Are you sure you’re done?” You know? And that’s sort of like an indication, well, maybe I better go…but on this one she didn’t say that. She just said, this is good and she did not send it out wide, she only sent…I wanted her to send it to an editor who had turned me down like two times, Josh Kendall at Little Brown in Mulholland and he ended up falling in love with it. But Frank…before Frank was a retired cop turned PI, he was an actual burglar. Not a cop, just a regular burglar that got involved in some PI work. But he was also a burglar and that’s what, you know got him his money and stuff like that.

But Frank Marr, he ended up changing and I made him a retired cop turned PI. It also used to take place in 1999, because that’s really when MS-13 was really active with trying to recruit young girls and stuff like that in high schools and I agreed with my editor. I mean 1999…I wanted to really get away from all the social media, because I can’t stand having to write about that stuff. And he said does it have to be 1999 and I go, no not really. So, we changed it to present and then I had to add social media stuff obviously because teenagers and social media and us and social media.

Debbi: Yes. Yeah, technology really can kind of screw up a story sometimes or enhance it depending on what you’re writing.

David: Yeah, and it’s funny that it is so much a part of everything we do. If you have a book without it, it would be weird [laughs]. I mean, you want to read a book without it that’s done realistically. I mean like I’m old enough that I used to use a map, you know [laughs]. Or write down the directions in a notebook. Now I’m so dependent on Google Maps and all that stuff. You know I couldn’t live without it. You know and a lot of detectives, too, active working detectives, the iPhone changed everything. The Samsung phone on crime scenes and all that kind of stuff they use. But that stuff becomes evidence. They don’t have to turn over their iPhone, but they have to transfer information. But I mean it changed everything in such a short period of time, you know when you think about it.

Debbi: Yeah, I know what you mean. Well, your series, what’s the series arc that you picture for this?

David: Well the arc is Crime Song, it’s a trilogy.

Debbi: Okay.

David: The third book, which is done called, Trigger will be out in February 2019 like I said, and it’s the end of the Frank Marr trilogy.

Debbi: Story.

David: Yeah, but it’s not necessarily the end of Frank Marr [laughs].

Debbi: Interesting.

David: Yeah, but it, you know, obviously it’s the end of his voice and stuff like that, but something happens in the third book where the publisher liked it so much they gave me another three book deal and they want me to pursue that. But it’s not Frank Marr. It is Frank Marr with someone else, but it’s not a Frank Marr series like this is, with his voice.

Debbi: Will Frank Marr appear in it I guess is the question?

David: Oh it will be a major part of it, but it won’t be first person present tense.

Debbi: Gotcha!

David: I’m giving away too much, but I’m excited about the third book and I haven’t been excited about a book…I was excited about The Second Girl and I haven’t been excited about a book like that until this book. So, that’s good or bad. I mean, you’re a writer so you know if you say your book, you like your book, then that means it’s bad, you know [laughs].

Debbi: [laughs].

David: If you hate your book, then that sometimes means it’s really good, you know. So I’m afraid to like it.

Debbi: I know how you feel. I mean you don’t want to raise your own expectations about it.

David: No.

Debbi: Or assume that because you like it, everybody else will; that sort of thing.

David: Well. my publisher, they love it, you know, and they’re outside of family, so it is important you know. But will the critics, will the fans, readers, new fans you know. Will it get a further reach? It’s not like I even want to become like this writer that has, you know, like a million readers. I just want to be able to make the publisher money and obviously me make, you know I have a pension but I’d still like to make a little money. But I just want a readership, you know.

Debbi: Exactly.

David: And continue to publish, you know. I love Mulholland Little Brown. I mean they’re like a family in every sense of the word. They really are.

Debbi: That’s fantastic!

David: So I want them to do well. I want them to keep me.

Debbi: That’s great. Let’s see, you also have a novel that I wanted to ask you about called, A Detailed Man where the protagonist has Bell’s Palsy. Tell us a little about that and what prompted you to write about that story.

David: That book took like ten years to write because I was writing it while I was a working detective with D.C. police and it sort of came about where it’s not me, but it is semi-autobiographical because I did have Bell’s Palsy in 2003 and my seventh cranial nerve is destroyed. I’m atrophied on this side of the face. I mean … you can’t really tell now but if I smile or I do a half smile because I can’t, this is frozen. But I wanted a guy that was sort of like…I mean Bell’s Palsy, you get the droop and I couldn’t blink my eye for eight months, you know. You have to wear a patch when you sleep and so I just liked the idea of just something really simple that’s not life threatening but it sort of is disfiguring for a few months, you know weeks or months. And I created Ezra but again because a lot of my career was one detail after another until I finally got assigned as a detective and once I got assigned, it’s like you can finally kick your feet up and put your feet on the desk because it’s your desk. Ezra was one detail after another and I’m really expecting more with that book but I’m thankful for that little book with a really now defunct publisher because that was really the start for me because a guy named Jacques Filippi. Do you know Jacques?

Debbi: No, I don’t know him.

David: The House of Crime and Mystery, but he’s also responsible for selling you know like a lot of my…

Debbi: I might have met him.

David: Yeah. Bouchercon maybe or he goes to a lot of those things. But he was doing this thing called the Quebec Crime Festival, sort of like C3 and all those nice crime festivals and I mean Laura Lippman was there, John Connolly and Mark Billingham and you know Owen Laukkanen and Chris Holm. Where it all started with me was Chris Holm and Peggy Blair and Owen and all these people and I was like the little rookie with his very independent book and these guys were all like…I mean Laura Lippman, I mean come on. But that’s really where it started for me and I started feeling like okay, I’m a writer despite this little book, A Detailed Man. So that really set the tone for me and also it was an experiment in first person present tense, which The Second Girl, I mean Frank Marr is all first person present tense.

Yeah,...

Instead of the usual interview, this episode of the Crime Cafe features the Philip Marlowe radio episode "Trouble is My Business".

Debbi Mack interviews translator and crime fiction publisher Anne Trager.

To buy Minced, Marinated, and Murdered, just click on the cover below.

The interview transcript is below, if you’d like to read it.

Or download the PDF copy and read it later.

Debbi: Hi everyone. This is the Crime Cafe. Your podcasting source of great crime, suspense and thriller writing. I’m your host, Debbi Mack. Before I introduce my guest, I’ll remind you to check out the Crime Cafe boxed set and anthology on my website. Just go to debbimack.com and click on the “Crime Cafe” link and you can find the buy buttons for both books and download them there. They’re sold at a very reasonable price and you can also find the podcast subscription buttons there and the Crime Cafe merchandise, so check it out. And now, it’s my great pleasure to bring on translator and crime fiction publisher, from France (living in France at any rate) Anne Trager. Hi Anne! It’s so great to have you on. Thanks for being here.

Anne: Hi Debbi! I am thrilled to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

Debbi: Well, I am very happy to have you. Let’s talk about Le French Book. Le French Book, is that correct?

Anne: That’s correct, that’s correct.

Debbi: Le French Book. Tell us about how you went to translating for others to founding a publishing company.

Anne: Well, so it happened in 2012. I was working…I had been living in France for a really, really long time. I moved over here in 1985 just because I was obsessed with France and so I ended up in France and then I just stayed and I worked as a translator for a really long time. I worked in publishing in France and I worked in international communications for international companies here, well, in Paris at the time when I was living in Paris. And one morning, I just woke up and I said, you know I’ve got to do something here. I am reading these fantastic French writers in French. I love mysteries and thrillers and they just weren’t being translated into English.

Now some were, but very, very few. I mean at the time there were only … like three percent of the books published in the United States were translations and that’s all languages together. So, imagine the tiny, tiny percentage of French books that were actually getting into English. This is still the case, actually. I mean we can only do much, but we do what we can, right? And it was really frustrating because I’d read these authors and I couldn’t talk to them to my friend and I couldn’t share them with the people I wanted to share them with, you know? And I said, actually I can do this. I have a foot in the U.S. because I’m American and that’s where I grew up and that’s my culture and I have a foot in France because that’s where I’m living and I speak French and I translate and I know about publishing. So, there you go. That’s how we started Le French Book.

Debbi: That’s fantastic! How many titles do you publish a year?

Anne: Well, it’s really variable. I mean I wish we could do more. So far we’ve published about 30 titles and it goes up and down, and we’ve had years where we’ve published more and years when we’ve published fewer, you know depending on any number of factors including the fact that translation takes a really long time and you know you need to spend time translating books.

Debbi: Yes. I was going to ask who your favorite crime fiction authors, French or otherwise are?

Anne: Oh, you know, that’s a really, really hard question. I mean we have published 30 titles. That’s not 30 different authors because we have some series, but I have a bunch of authors and in our…you know we publish a bunch of different authors and I’m very involved in each one of those books. And you really, really have to love a book to want to translate it because it requires actually getting into an author’s head, you know. Understanding who they are, where they’re coming from, what they’re trying to get across; getting into the story and building a bridge between that story and that author and a new bunch of readers who come from a different culture and who come from a different point of view. And so you’re trying to make that bridge because culture really plays a really big role in anybody’s writing, okay? So it’s a really, really fascinating process and so I can’t…when you get so involved in a book and with an author because I work with the authors.

I really, really like to work with contemporary authors. I don’t work with dead authors. I work with authors who are alive because I like to work with them. I like that relationship and understanding who they are in order to translate their work. So I can’t pick a favorite. I mean how do you pick a favorite [laughs]? From that point of view, from the point of view of a translator. I just, I couldn’t even tell you, you know. I mean I do have my authors that, you know, the people I like to read. I love reading Lee Child. I love reading Michael Connelly. I mean as my U.S. authors. For me when I read an author who writes originally in English, then I can say that kind of thing. But I can’t look at my collection of authors who we translate and say, oh well, which one is my favorite?

Debbi: No, no. I wouldn’t ask you to, really. I’m thinking more of, say, classic authors in the genre.

Anne: Yeah, yeah well you know, I mean in French the big classic that everyone talks about that people in the U.S. know is Simenon and he wrote a whole bunch of crime fiction novels that are set in the very famous police headquarters in the center of Paris at an address which is 36 Quai des Orfevres, okay? And that is, it’s like the French Scotland Yard, okay? And so his books were set there and with his very famous detective called Maigret. People have heard about Maigret and so he’s very well known. And it’s very funny, they brought out recently, I don’t know which major publisher republished them again and I remember reading a few of them in the original French and thinking, wow, these are very dated, you know? But at the same time they still work, you know and they still work.

Debbi: Yes.

Anne: So we have, you know for example we have a contemporary author whose name is Frédérique Molay (it’s a woman) and she set her books in the same building with the same Police Chief (it’s a commissaire in French, it’s a Police Chief) who’s got that same position. And so it’s really interesting because it’s very modern and what I’m finding so fascinating in that series (it’s the Paris Homicide Series) and we’ve brought out three books in the series. Amazon Crossing then picked up the series and they brought out the next one and Frédérique is currently working on the next one and so on. Anyway, is that famous building, that Scotland Yard of France is moving. I mean, actually they moved this year. They moved from right…it was right across on the same island as Notre Dame, the big cathedral, right in the very center of Paris; that’s where the traditional building is, and they moved the police headquarters to a modern building so that they could actually have something a little bit more modern, which for a city like Paris is understandable and it’s in an entirely different neighborhood now. And so I’m very excited to see (it’s not in the next book here, it will be in the following book from Frédérique) to see that change, you know happen to the characters, you know. Because there’s this whole history that goes back, you know to Simenon to Maigret and all of that. So you see this continuity in the author’s writing.

Debbi: I love that kind of thing. When you get a sense of place in the books.

Anne: Yes, yes. And that’s what’s so fascinating about these books is because all of the French writers, you know, we choose books that are usually set in France, okay? Because obviously we’re catering to an international audience and so one of the appeals is that they are set in France. And it’s very interesting because for all of the authors, well, France is home, okay. So they’re going to bring to light different aspects of France and so, you know when they chose the Eifel Tower…we’ve got one thriller by Eric Giacometti and Jacques Ravenne and they’re Freemason thrillers, okay? And we’ve got one that begins with a body hanging from the Eifel Tower, I mean of course, you know? But when they write it, the Eifel Tower has such a different, I don’t know. It’s so much part of their everyday life. I don’t know how to explain it. It’s not like a tourist attraction, okay.

Debbi: I understand. I grew up in New York City and I live down near Washington, D.C. so [laughs].

Anne: Right, right.

Debbi: The idea of tourist attractions is everyday things is something that resonates with me. I was going to ask you something else that just slipped my mind. Oh, about cultural differences in writing. Do you ever run into a situation where you have a particularly difficult time translating something that somebody is saying in French to English?

Anne: You know it happens all the time in a translation that you really have to work on finding an adaptation to something. Now it can be a reference; a cultural reference. For example, in one of our Winemaker Detective novels, it took place in the Cognac Region. In a town where a very famous French president, Francois Mitterrand, who was president for 14 years or something like that, where he lived and died, okay? And so when in the dialogues, all the dialogues that took place in this little town would make reference to this (not all of them obviously, but a lot of them) would make reference to different aspects of Francois Mitterrand, who was such a very famous French president who did so much for France, right?

And so when you come across that, as a translator you have to say, okay, how much of this is really pertinent to the story for a reader who is not going to pick up on it? So, how much of it is pertinent? How much do you have to explain,...

Debbi Mack reads Chapter 7 of her New York Times bestselling hardboiled mystery, Identity Crisis, on the Crime Cafe podcast.

Here's the text of the reading:

CHAPTER SEVEN

By the time I recovered my wind, they’d gagged me and tied my hands behind my back. The rope was tight, making my wrists hurt. Having my arms stretched back was awkward, forcing me to use muscles I’d not used in ages. The car’s air conditioning was on full blast. I was freezing and sweating like a pig. On the whole, it was not an ideal arrangement.

They took me somewhere. I can’t tell you where. I can’t even tell you how long it took. A blindfold takes away all sense of place and time. Being terrified doesn’t make things much better.

When we finally got to wherever the hell we went, they guided me out of the car with hands gripping both my arms. We marched a few yards, then stopped. I heard the jingle of keys. No one spoke.

A door opened and we went inside. The floor was hard and the only sound was the faint echo of our footsteps. We walked until we reached another door. More walking, then up a short flight of steps. Despite my fear, I was amazed at how well my other senses worked, taking up the slack caused by the blindfold. First, a hard floor, then a carpet, now bare floor again. The place felt warm and stuffy, but maybe I was just nervous. The guys holding my arms were firm, but not rough. Not gentle either, but they had no reason to be rough—yet.

They maneuvered me around until I felt something against the back of my knees. One of the men grunted something like “siddown” in my ear. I complied with gratitude. My legs shook. Sweat dripped from my armpits and my stomach was jumpy. I desperately hoped I wouldn’t vomit—especially with the gag on.

They bound my legs and took off the blindfold and gag. I was on a stage, facing a dark theater, squinting into two blinding white spotlights. When my eyes adjusted, I could see empty seats. What had I expected, a full house?

“Ms. McRae.” A disembodied male voice, electrically amplified, boomed from the dark.

I blinked and waited for more.

“Ms. McRae,” the voice repeated in an implacable and monotonous tone. “It’s good to meet you.”

I didn’t trust myself to say anything, so I nodded.

“I’m sorry about the inconvenience. It’s important you know we’re serious.”

No shit, I thought. I licked my lips, but my mouth had gone so dry it was a wasted gesture.

“You do realize that?”

I worked my mouth again and managed to say, “Yes.” It sounded like I’d swallowed ground glass.

“Good. Let’s get down to business then,” the robotic voice droned on. “It would be good to do this quickly and painlessly, don’t you agree?”

He could have been talking about killing me, for all I knew. I said, “Yes.”

“Where is Melanie Hayes, Ms. McRae?”

“I don’t know.”

“What was that?”

“I don’t know.” In my peripheral vision, I sensed a presence. A big, heavy, muscle-bound presence.

“Is that your final answer?”

Had I been kidnapped by Regis Philbin? “I just don’t—”

Suddenly, I was facing left, my cheek stinging, but I hadn’t turned my head—someone had turned it for me. The slap had come fast and from out of nowhere.

“Where is she?”

I tried to catch my breath. “I … don’t know.”

Another slap, harder this time. The lights were making my eyes hurt. My head throbbed.

“Where is Melanie Hayes?”

Again, I told him I didn’t know. I got a punch in the ribs. Then another.

“Where is she?”

I shook my head. It hurt to breathe now. Another hard slap followed by a punch in the gut. I gasped for air.

“Stop that,” the voice commanded. “Give her time.”

The muscle man stepped back. I got my time. Then the voice said, “What’s your business with Bruce Schaeffer?”

How the hell had Schaeffer gotten into this? “Wanted to ask him some questions.”

“About what? What sort of questions?”

“Thought maybe he might know where Melanie is.”

Pause. “I’m not sure I believe you.”

Hands pulled me from the chair and threw me to the floor. My head hit with a bang. A kick landed in the kidney region of my lower back. I howled as an electric current of pain shot through me.

“What did you talk about, Ms. McRae? Be specific, please. I want details.” The voice boomed relentlessly.

“I asked him if he knew where she was,” I gasped. “That’s all.”

“Why would he know?”

“It was a hunch.” I said it fast, trying to get it out before the next blow landed. “I’m trying to find her. The police are looking for her. That’s all.”

I braced myself, waiting for something worse to happen.

The voice was silent. Finally, the man said, “Did Melanie Hayes leave anything with you?”

“No.”

“Nothing? Are you sure?”

“No. She didn’t give me anything.”

“You lying bitch. Talk.” This from the muscle man, who kicked me again and again. He slammed me onto my back and with one arm pinned my shoulders down and sat astride my thighs, smashing my bound hands into the hard floor. He stared at me with eyes as devoid of warmth as a shark’s. A deep scar ran down his left cheek.

I heard a metallic snick and a switchblade moved into view above my face.

“Tell us, you filthy, lying cunt. Tell us or I’ll cut your fuckin’ eyes out.” The knife hovered over my left eye, then moved in closer.

I whimpered.

“Stop that, you idiot.” the voice ordered. “Get off her right now.”

I lay there, ready to piss my pants, thinking about spending the rest of my life mutilated or blind. I didn’t dare move or breathe. I wanted to pass out.

“I said get off her,” the voice commanded.

The muscle man finally withdrew the knife and got up. He seemed reluctant.

I gasped for breath. My body shook uncontrollably.

“If you’re lying, Ms. McRae—”

“I’m not,” I said in a strangled voice. “I swear.”

A long pause. The muscle man continued to stand over me, a dark silhouette against the spotlights. The only sound was his heavy breathing.

“All right. I think you’re telling the truth. If I find out you’re lying … things won’t go so easy next time.”

With those words, I knew I was going to live. The blindfold and gag went back on. They untied my feet, helped me up, and half-walked, half-carried me to the car. My head ached where it had hit the floor. The ride home was silent and took forever.

They stopped in front of my building, helped me out, untied my hands and left before I could get the blindfold off. Again, I didn’t get the tag number.

I was right about one thing—the Mob didn’t kill unless it had to. What I hadn’t anticipated was they might beat the crap out of me.

It must have rained while I was gone, although it hadn’t cooled things down any. The parking lot was damp, glowing with the reflections of lights on the apartment buildings. Steam rose from the asphalt, creating an outdoor sauna.

For one panicky moment, I thought I’d lost my purse, until I realized it hung from my shoulder. Dazed, I hobbled to my building, but couldn’t bring myself to climb the stairs. I sat down to rest. Next thing I knew, I lay on the steps, my head on my arm and my eyes closed. My body felt like one huge bruise. Every breath I took was agony. It even hurt to think.

I heard a door open and close somewhere. I considered moving. Why bother? Footsteps. If they could walk, they could walk around me.

“What the hell?”

A familiar nasal voice. I opened my eyes. I knew this guy. Mid-sixties, hair a glossy, dyed brown, brown eyes and a disgusted expression. My downstairs neighbor, Russell Burke.

“Hi.” I tried to push myself upright with little success.

Russell came around and helped me sit up. “What the hell’s wrong with you? Are you drunk?”

I shook my head. “No. Drunk would not be it.”

“What the hell are you doing lying here on the stairs?”

“Resting.” I felt nauseated again. The effort of talking was making me sick. I was thirsty, too. I needed to get to bed.

He scowled. “I hope that crazy fool who left here with his tires squealing wasn’t your date. Hey.” His look changed to one of concern. “My God, you look pale.”

“I feel kind of pale. Ha … oh, ow.” I clutched my rib cage. “Bad move. Worst date of my life. Uh-oh.” Things spun, but I caught hold of a step with one hand to steady myself. My tongue felt like a piece of dried leather.

“Sam? Sam?” Russell’s voice sounded tinny and far away.

“No problem,” I mumbled. “Just get me a gallon of water and a bed, and I’ll be fine. Okeydokey?” I grabbed the handrail and, ignoring the pain, pulled myself up. Then I passed out.

*****

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