In recent days, Donald Trump has angrily claimed he knows nothing about Project 2025, the blueprint his allies are drawing up for an authoritarian second term presidency. But CNN is now reporting that at least 140 people from the Trump administration have a hand in the Project 2025 plan. And NBC News has unearthed video showing that Trump expressly praised the plan’s creators for their work in 2022. We talked to Amanda Becker—a reporter for The 19th News and author of a forthcoming piece on Project 2025’s minutiae—who explains why Trump keeps running from Project 2025 and what its darker designs really have in store for us. Listen to this episode here.

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