For over twenty years, Lloyd Knight has been one of the defining artists of the Martha Graham Dance Company, embodying works that have shaped modern dance while continuously expanding beyond them.
Since joining the company in 2005 and rising to principal dancer in 2014, Knight has become one of the foremost interpreters of the Graham repertory, while also creating new works with choreographers including Nacho Duato, Kyle Abraham, Doug Varone, Lar Lubovitch, Pam Tanowitz, and Mats Ek. Along the way, he has partnered with artists such as Wendy Whelan and Misty Copeland, appeared as a guest artist with Royal Ballet of Flanders and Twyla Tharp Dance, and earned recognition as one of Dance Magazine‘s “25 to Watch,” the magazine’s 2015 Best Performer, and a 2022 Bessie Award nominee.
As the Martha Graham Dance Company celebrates its centennial season, Knight continues to balance the weight of history with a remarkable curiosity for new creation. Most recently, he premiered The Drama, a deeply personal solo work created with Jack Ferver and filmmaker Jeremy Jacob, exploring his artistic lineage through the intertwined influence of his mother and Martha Graham.
Ahead of his performances in Andrew Skeels’ new work, Meanwhile, at Carvalho gallery’s Summer Performance Series, I sat down with Knight to talk about artistic evolution, collaboration, what it means to carry one of dance’s great legacies, and why, even after two decades with Graham, he’s still searching for what’s next.
Interview is lightly edited below. Listen to the full conversation in the podcast above.
Lloyd Knight in Andrew Skeels’ Meanwhile. Photo: Quinn Wharton
Cynthia: It’s been over twenty years since you joined Martha Graham Dance Company. When you look back at the dancer who arrived from New World School of the Arts versus who you are now, what’s the biggest shift in how you understand your own artistry and the repertoire?
Lloyd: Probably the ownership that I have within myself as an artist, a dancer, the way I approach the work. Coming into the company, I was just really fresh and green about so many things—even the ways to perform. You’re dropped in the middle of these iconic works. It’s a journey that you go on to find your groove in it, and luckily we have great coaches and past and present company members who can help you out along the way. I would say that’s been the biggest change in me, I don’t want to use the word comfortable, because I never want to be comfortable with what I’m doing. But I feel a little bit more ownership with my artistry.
Cynthia: I know a lot of people in our audience are not necessarily dancers. Can you give me maybe an example of how that would change the experience of performing in a certain work?
Lloyd: One thing about the Graham work is that I always call it a full experience. It’s not just coming into this black box, the lights come on, and you just do the steps. We have sets and these great costumes, and the way she designed her technique—the way you hold your neck and your back. You’re literally trying to catch the light on your body, on your cheekbones. It’s really full. That is along the lines of what I’ve learned the most about entering the Graham stage, entering as a full character and taking the audience on a ride, but also yourself. So at the end of the show, you walk away fully engulfed with what you did, and you feel like you accomplished that, or try to at least.
Xin Ying and Lloyd Knight performing in Martha Graham's Acts of Light (1981). Photo Courtesy of Ballet Support Foundation.
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Cynthia: Was there a turning point when you went from “This isn’t mine” to “This is mine”?
Lloyd: Maybe around second, third year, I started learning soloist roles, and that’s the best, because you really take on a character. I always say to people who ask, my favorite ballets are the ones where you don’t leave the stage, you have to stay on the whole time. I started learning the Snake in Graham’s Embattled Garden, and we were rehearsing it, and rehearsal’s fine, you go through the ins and outs of all that rehearsal brings, but it was something about performing it, the curtain going down, and just being like, “Oh my God, what just happened?” You really lose yourself, and you go on that ride, and looking at the rest of the cast we’re like, “Whoa, we really lived that,” full body. I feel like that was a turning point—learning Embattled Garden—and that’s when I really understood the depth of a Graham work. Before that, I was learning corps roles, which is amazing, in Acts of Light and Diversion of Angels. But it was really taking on these iconic characters that’s I just loved.
Cynthia: I think it’s so interesting how much vocabulary Graham shares still with ballet. Even though she’s the mother of modern dance, a dance historian will be quick to point out all the people that came before her but she was so pivotal, and we still call her works ballets, and you still refer to the group as the corps de ballet.
Lloyd: Yeah. Surprises people.
Lloyd Knight in Halston’s costume for Martha Graham’s Lucifer. Photo: Jayme Thornton
Cynthia: And you’ve said Graham technique is your first love. But you’ve since worked with an unusually wide range of choreographers, from Kyle Abraham to Mats Ek to Bob Fosse’s repertoire. How has moving between such different vocabularies changed the way you approach a brand-new piece?
Lloyd: You do have to learn how to adapt to the choreographer you’re working with. I really try to do my homework ahead of time and see what they’re all about, and then once they’re in front of me, it’s really trying to strip myself of all my habits, or the way I want to move, and pick up what they’re giving us. Luckily in school at New World, we trained in a lot of different techniques, so I felt comfortable doing other things, they weren’t necessarily a mystery to me. But choreographers change, things evolve, and I remember Sidi Larbi Cherkaoui coming in to work with us, and I was like, “Whoa, what is this?” He’s very flexible, and the things he would do with his body, he would just show it to us as if it was nothing. He’s like, “Okay, and now it’s your turn.” And I’m like, “There’s no way.” He would break it down, and I was like, “Okay, I’m gonna get on this floor and try and do the work.” Little by little, I’ve learned you have to have patience and a sense of humor, and give yourself time—hopefully they give you time as well— to try and adapt to it. It’s so much fun to be a chameleon.
Martha Graham and Bertram Ross in Alcestis, 1960. Photo by Martha Swope / © The New York Public Library. Jerome Robbins Dance Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts.
Cynthia: Has there been anyone’s work that was particularly challenging to make the shift between styles? For anyone who doesn’t know, Graham is not just a style, it’s a technique, it’s a way of working—like ballet dancers will have trouble with certain kinds of other styles because it’s so different, you’ll see a parallel in that with the Graham technique.
Lloyd: I would say the biggest push was Mats Ek, the detail he puts in the work. I match it to Graham because of all the detail, but it was just so different. The piece we were doing was called Axe, and I was literally chopping wood on stage. I had to learn how to chop wood. I had to learn how to pick up his movement style. We spent weeks in Stockholm learning this piece. By the way it was just me and his wife, Anna, and the other cast members. I was in a Mats Ek intensive for several weeks, all day, every day, and I loved it because he’s a genius, a visual and movement genius to me. I would say that was maybe the most challenging because of all the different elements that came into it.
Cynthia: I’ve heard that about his work from other dancers before. A lot of choreographers will allow you to learn the steps and then add your character, the emotions, your personal interpretation. But I’ve heard that with Mats Ek, he wanted your interpretation immediately.
Lloyd: Totally. He really wants all of you for every single step, and he’s very giving with his descriptions and whatnot. I remember even that first run-through we had, and I cried because I really went on that journey. He’s a spectacular artist in that way. Epic.
Cynthia: Not all dancers have an interest or the opportunity to create their own work. And you’ve created The Drama, and you’ve spoken before about how Jack Ferver pushed you out of your comfort zone into new emotional territory. What do you need from a choreographer to feel like you can take risks?
Lloyd: To feel acceptance of myself as an artist, and being allowed to really be myself, to explore. I had seen Jack’s work many times, and when I got the opportunity to put The Drama together, I immediately thought about them, because the way they construct their work was something I really wanted to go towards and explore. Being at that residency with them, I felt really comfortable to just let it all out. Sometimes it was very embarrassing, but I knew I was in good hands. You always want to feel like you’re in good hands whenever you’re working with these choreographers. Sometimes, honestly, you might not gel completely with every choreographer, but at least you know that they respect you for your artistry, and they’re allowing you to bring something to their work.
Lloyd Knight and Jacquelin Harris performing Andrew Skeels’ Meanwhile. Photo: Quinn Wharton.
Cynthia: Do you have plans of doing more of your own work in the future?
Lloyd: Yes, hopefully. I always keep that door open. I got to do The Drama in Cleveland, thankfully, and most recently in the Hamptons at Guild Hall. I’m really hoping it’ll spread its wings much more, and I’ll get to do it a lot, because I really love it. I really enjoy doing it. Minus my story, I always call it a love letter to modern dance, to Graham, to my mom, and I feel like anybody with a passion can relate to it.
Cynthia: I think dance can take this role of a parent. It gives you a framework for understanding the world. So when I saw that this was a love letter to dance, and to your mom, and to Graham I thought, “Oh, right, that makes so much sense.” They’re really all the same.
Lloyd: Yeah, they all add to that fire that’s within a person growing up and then trying to enter this world that I wanted to be a part of so badly. It’s all in there.
Cynthia: So tell me about this new piece that we’ll actually have a couple of opportunities to see, coming up with Andrew Skeels. What was your first impression when he brought you into it, and what would you say it’s asking of you as a dancer?
Lloyd: I had seen some of his work before— little things online—and I definitely always admired his work. When the project got presented to me and I heard it was Andrew, I was like, “Oh my God, hell yeah, yes, let’s go, let’s go on the journey.” I didn’t know at the time that I was actually so hungry to move in that way. It was really refreshing because Andrew, I think he’s very much like Graham in his approach to movement. It comes from deep within, and every step has a purpose. You’re not just dancing to go out there and twirl. He pushed me, and it was a really good push. We improvised a lot and I don’t get to do that on a regular basis, so even having those couple of weeks improvising on a constant basis was cool, and it was good for me. Some days were frustrating, because I was like, “Oh my God, I hope I come up with something good,” or “What am I gonna do today?” It’s just the dancer-crazy thing. But he was so open to whatever came out of me that day, and just kind of molded around that.
Cynthia: I think that’s something else that sometimes surprises people, that it’s a different experience to improvise, that you don’t always have that chance. What you’re really saying is you don’t always have a chance to put yourself into the work, because so much of what we do is repertoire that already exists.
Lloyd: Yeah. Because every creation is different depending on the choreographer. Some choreographers already come in with set movement, or they’ll make it up on the spot, but it’s coming from them, it might not necessarily come from you at all. So to have the opportunity to get down and dirty and play, and then they’re like, “Okay, take this, take that, what if you do this?” it really feels like a well-rounded experience, because then when you have the final product, at least for me, it feels a little bit more rewarding, because I’m like, “Oh, I had a hand in that”.
Cynthia: Right, you are in it. The way you move, what works on your body, is in it. And then if it becomes part of the rep, somebody else has to fit themselves into what was originally coming from you.
Lloyd: Yeah, totally.
Cynthia: What does your process look like for finding a role’s interior life, especially in a piece created on you rather than one you’re stepping into from history?
Lloyd: I’m always talking to myself when I’m performing — that discussion is always happening. On a normal night I have to do Jamar Roberts’ piece, We the People, after Graham — that piece is about protest. So the whole time I’m in that work, I’m thinking, “Okay, this meaning, these movements are giving off this kind of energy.” I try to stay really engulfed in that world, depending on what the choreography is. Hofesh’s Cave — thinking about community. When it was created, we were coming out of COVID, and everybody wanted to just be together and party, and what does that — missing going out — so those kinds of feelings. I really try to take in the heart of each dance and bring that on stage. It might be three different kinds of dances in one night, but I really try to jump into that world.
Cynthia: Are there roles either within or without the Graham rep that feel like your signature roles or that really feel like a natural fit?
Lloyd: I would say probably the Shaman in Graham’s Rite of Spring. I really loved doing the Snake in Embattled Garden — I’d done it for a while, so that really felt like my jam. And the journey continues — even this past season I’ve gotten a chance to do Oedipus in Night Journey. This is the most I’ve ever performed that work. I’m still discovering it, but with these little breaks we have every so often from it, and going back into it, I’m like, “Okay, wow, I feel a little bit more confident in this part,” playing a little bit more. The work never stops, especially in the Graham rep.
Cynthia: Isn’t that amazing? It’s so much more realistic — you can take a test in school and it’s possible to get a hundred, but in real life, in dance, in art, you’re never finished.
Lloyd: Yeah. People ask me about class. They’re like, “You’re still taking class? Isn’t the class done?” And I’m like, “Nope.” The class is always classing. You’re always working, always going after a clear path on how to approach movement and display it at its highest.
Cynthia: And speaking of a clear path, what dreams do you have for yourself moving forward? That could be in six months from now, or in another 20 years.
Lloyd: I still love performing, so I still want to do many more years of that. I love theater as well. The Drama really opened the door for me with that, so I’d love to explore that more. I want to get my master’s degree in arts administration and run an arts organization, and really try to help this field we’re in keep going higher.
Cynthia: I definitely see you directing a company. I’m pretty sure that’s happening. Please invite me to the opening party.
Lloyd: You’ll be there. That’s a calling that’s deep within me. I love teaching as well. People often ask me, “What’s next?” And I’m like, “I have so many things I want to do, and I keep myself open to them and see what happens.”
Cynthia: I did done a little poll before for audience questions, so I have a couple but first, you can see Lloyd perform on July 25th and August 8th in Andrew Skeels’ new work, Meanwhile, at Carvalho. It’s a duet with the gorgeous Ailey dancer, Jacqueline Harris.
Lloyd: Stunning. Stunning.
Lloyd Knight and Jacquelin Harris performing Andrew Skeels’ Meanwhile. Photo: Quinn Wharton.
Cynthia: Where else can we find you?
Lloyd: Performance-wise, it’s the gallery piece, Andrew’s piece, and then we just started our season at Graham. If you go to Graham’s website, the whole performance schedule is there, that’s as far as I have right now.
Cynthia: We mentioned this in the beginning, but Graham is just coming to the close of their 100th year.
Lloyd: Yes.
Cynthia: And I was like, “Oh my God, Lloyd, you’ve been in the company for 20% of their existence.”
Lloyd: I know, it’s wild. I was thinking the other day, when I graduated from conservatory, I just wanted to dance, period. Then I fell in love with Graham, and I was like, “That’s what I want.” So when the opportunity came to join the company, it was like, “Wow, okay, I’m here.” I never thought I would be here this long. But it doesn’t feel stale. It doesn’t feel like I’m jaded or over it in any way, I still love it here, I still love the work. We have these evaluation meetings every year, and there’s always a discussion of how we feel, and it’s like, well, as long as you’re not sick of me, I’m not sick of being here either.
AUDIENCE QUESTIONS:
Cynthia: What would you want to be if you weren’t a dancer?
Lloyd: I used to want to be a doctor. I had to do community service hours for high school, and I did it in a hospital, and I got really into that world, the health field. I think maybe the health field, just giving back in that way. And if not that, maybe a guidance counselor. I feel like I really love to say “What’s going on? Let’s talk about it, can I help guide you in any way?”
Cynthia: Well, you’re gonna need that when you’re a company director.
Lloyd: Yeah, I don’t know. There’s something that’s been opening up in that way for me.
Cynthia: Have you seen these studies that keep getting shared about how having art and dance in your life affects your brain health, your bone health, your mental health? It’s kind of like we’re already in the healing professions, and just now it’s getting acknowledged. I love how now they did a study, and are all learning what we’ve already known for decades and decades.
Lloyd: We’re like, “We already knew this, sir.”
Cynthia: Exactly. And the second question is what role from another company’s rep have you ever dreamed of performing?
Lloyd: Well, first, right away I think of Pina Bausch’s Rite of Spring. I would love to perform that. Alvin Ailey’s Wade in the Water, that’s just something that’s always been in my mind. Ulysses Dove, anything Ulysses Dove. I come from a generation where I grew up watching a lot of Nacho Duato and Mats Ek and all these great choreographic legends, so those works hold a lot of meaning for me. I really appreciate those artists. I love, love, love Nacho Duato.
Cynthia: Me too. I feel like there are some choreographers who do really interesting work for men specifically, and he’s one of them.
Lloyd: When he came to Graham, he really pushed me physically, and he loves Graham, so you could see that come out of him when he’s choreographing. It was a beautiful experience.
Cynthia: You should tell Ailey that you want to do Wade in the Water.
Lloyd: They’ll be like, “What?” I would love it, it would be awesome, because I grew up watching that work.
Cynthia: I first saw Ailey when I was 18, or 17, I was living in Boston at Boston Ballet, and my background was super classical. I was dreaming of the Paris Opera only, and then I saw Ailey and they did Revelations, because at almost every show they do Revelations. And it totally rocked my world. I was like, “I think that’s the company I want to be in.” And my teachers were like, “We don’t know if that’s the right fit for you.”
Lloyd: No, but you never know. It touched me. I remember crying. I finally got to see them live, they came on tour to Miami, and to be touched by the actual work, but then to see how involved and touched all the audience members were, I love it. And before I forget, also Béjart’s Boléro. I want to get on that red table.
Cynthia: Oh my God. You would be so good.
Cynthia: Lloyd, thank you a million, trillion times. I’m gonna come see both the next performances of Skeels’ work at Carvalho, and I’m looking forward to the next Graham season.
Lloyd: Thank you so much, and thank you to everybody that’s listening and watching, for going along on my ride. I really hope everybody gets to come to the gallery and see the work, because it’s so stunning, and the installation, engulfed with the dancing, you really get a full experience.
Cynthia: Well, have such a nice night. Thank you. Thank you a million times for everything.
SEE LLOYD KNIGHT IN PERFORMANCE:
You can find Lloyd Knight at Carvalho gallery in Brooklyn on July 25 and August 8 in Andrew Skeels’ latest choreographic work Meanwhile, a duet with Jacquelin Harris. Performances are free and open to the public. RSVP is required. More information HERE.
Xin Ying and Lloyd Knight performing in Martha Graham’s Acts of Light (1981). Photo Courtesy of Ballet Support Foundation.
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