In this episode Clay is joined by Liza Libes. Liza is an author, content creator, and voracious reader of classic fiction. She is also the owner and operator of Invictus Prep, a college consulting company that helps applicants leverage the power of narrative to get into their dream school. 

This is an episode that can be divided into two main parts. 

The first part consists of Liza’s unique and fascinating origin story as the daughter of Soviet immigrants, as well as her and experience with woke, professors, TAs, and students at Columbia University. 

• Starting at 04:02 

In the second part, Liza brings her considerable literary knowledge to bear on questions like “Why is it important to read classic fiction?”, “Is modern literature any good?”, and “Why are Russian novelists particularly talented?”. She also shares her takes on Sally Rooney, Ernest Hemingway, the new Harry Potter HBO show, and much more.

• Starting at 54:35

You can follow Liza on Instagram, X, and YouTube.

And of course, please get yourself a copy of one of Liza’s fantastic collections of poetry.

Books mentioned in this episode 

• Harry Potter — J. K. Rowling

• Vanity Fair — William Makepeace Thackeray

• The Master and Margarita — Mikhail Bulgakov

• Anna Karenina — Leo Tolstoy

• The Brothers Karamazov — Fyodor Dostoevsky

• The Iliad — Homer

• Mansfield Park — Jane Austen

• Metamorphoses — Ovid

• Wuthering Heights — Emily Brontë

• Animal Farm — George Orwell

• 1984 — George Orwell

• The Sun Also Rises — Ernest Hemingway

• The Plague — Albert Camus

• The Fall — Albert Camus

• The Stranger — Albert Camus

Articles by Liza mentioned in this episode (from her Substack)

• Leave Literature Alone

• Harry Potter Changed my Life 

• The Real Problem With the New Harry Potter Series 

• The New York Times is Wrong About Motherhood

• The Publishing Industry is Allergic to Money 

• Why Modern Movies Feel So Empty 

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In this episode the boys discuss the recent White House Correspondents’ Dinner shooting, Hasan Piker’s recent controversial conversation with The New York Times, deontic thinking on the left, and more!

Mentioned in this episode:

• ‘The Rich Don’t Play by the Rules. So Why Should I?’ - The New York Times

• Read White House Correspondents’ Dinner suspect Cole Allen’s full anti-Trump manifesto - The New York Post

• Understanding Committed Leftists in the United States Right Before the 2020 U.S. Presidential Election - Journal of Social and Political Psychology 

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In this episode Clay is joined by Bradley Schurman. Bradley is a demographic strategist and author whose work has focused on how demographic shifts are re-shaping economies, cities, and global power structures.

His most recent project is The Geography of Prosperity Index, which he co-created with Jaymes Cloninger. The Geography of Prosperity Index ranks the largest 250 U.S. metro-areas on five key factors that are intended to represent future-readiness for a prosperous life.

Listen to this episode to learn what prepares a city to prosper in the future, better understand the five factors Bradley and Cloninger used to create the index, hear which metro-areas are in the top 10, and much more! 

You can follow Bradley on Instagram, Substack, and TikTok

Mentioned in this episode:

• The Super Age: Decoding Our Demographic Destiny

• The Wheeler District 

• The Joys of Data Centers: Debunking the Backlash Against the $7 Trillion AI Building Boom

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In this episode the boys discuss how the conflict in Iran is causing the MAGA right to fracture, and why the Artemis II mission is so incredibly cool. 

Some clarifications:

• The lunar impact crater “Carroll” was named after Commander Reid Wiseman’s late wife, who died of cancer in 2020.

• Jeremy Hansen was the Canadian member of the crew.

Mentioned in this episode:

• The Devoted Actor 

• Breaking History 

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In their first-ever in-person episode, the boys are joined by Sagnik Basu. Sagnik is a content creator, producer, and community builder who helped get The Daily Caller and Breaking Points off the ground. He currently serves as the executive producer of Washington Post Opinions. He also hosted his own show, where he had conversations with right-leaning figures like Emily Jashinsky, Saagar Enjeti, Robby Soave, and Discourse Lab’s own Anthony Rispo.

Listen to this episode to get Sagnik’s takes on populism, elitism, immigration, and much more! 

You can find Sagnik on…

• X

• Instagram

• TikTok

• YouTube

Mentioned in this episode:

• Ship of Fools by Tucker Carlson

• Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell

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In this episode, Anthony is joined by Michael Pezzullo. Michael is a licensed psychotherapist specializing in gay men’s mental health. His YouTube channel Therapy for Gay Men has over 18k subscribers and counting.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Anthony and Michael explore body image and self-worth in gay spaces, whether "the scene" actually exists or is mostly a projection, and what really drives the fracture within the LGBTQ+ umbrella. They discuss conversion therapy, social contagion, false consciousness, and much more!

The boys also pull apart some of the most pressing, and avoided, questions facing gay men today. Why do so many gay men give up on love? Should you wait until you're "ready" to date? What actually makes a relationship work?

Please rate and review us on your podcast player of choice! It’s the best way to support us. 

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Is Iran really trying to build a nuclear bomb? Why is the strait of Hormuz so important? What are some realistic best-case scenarios for this conflict? 

In this episode Clay is joined by returning guest Alex DeVitry.  to try and make sense of these questions and more. 

Alex is a student at Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs (SIPA), where he is studying  international conflict resolution, foreign policy and diplomacy, and the Middle East. He also writes a Substack that is well worth reading.

If you want to know more about Alex's truly fascinating backstory, check out his first appearance on Discourse Lab.

Mentioned in this episode:

• OSINT Defender 
• The End of The World is Just the Beginning  - Peter Zeihan 
• “Why is Iran producing 60 percent-enriched uranium?” (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
• “This Isn’t Israel’s War. It’s America’s” - Haviv Rettig Our
• “This is How The War Goes Bad” - Niall Ferguson 

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In this episode, the boys are joined by Lucy Biggers. Lucy is a journalist and content creator currently serving as the Head of Social Media for The Free Press. In her mid-20s, Lucy was an influential climate activist whose work for outlets like “NowThis” helped popularize apocalyptic narratives about global warming and bring the Standing Rock protests to national attention.

During COVID, Lucy began to seriously doubt the validity of the cause she was fighting for. She put her activism on hold and reassessed many of the things she believed about climate change. Last May, Lucy started posting again—only this time it was to debunk many of the claims she had once fervently communicated to the world.

Listen to this episode if you want to learn why Lucy isn’t even remotely concerned about CO₂ emissions, find out what Greta Thunberg is like in person, hear Lucy’s impression of a plant stoma, and much more!

You can follow Lucy on Instagram, X, and TikTok

Mentioned in this episode:

• Apocalypse Never - Michael Shellenberger
• Unsettled - Steven E. Koonin
• The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels  - Alex Epstein
• Fossil Future - Alex Epstein
• Factfullness - Hans Rosling 
• The Long Summer - Brian Fagan
• Irrational Fear - Dr. Matthew Wielicki's Substack

Please rate and review us on your podcast player of choice! It’s the best way to support us. 

Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube

Follow us on Instagram and X

Our Book Recommendations

• The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech – And Why They Fail - Nadine Strossen and Greg Lukianoff
  • A short, easy read that will arm you with the rhetorical weapons you need to fight against censorship. 
• Psychobabble: Viral Mental Health Myths & the Truths to Set You Free - Joe Nucci
  • A fascinating look at all the mental health BS you see on your social media feeds. Joe does a great job of setting the record straight. 
• Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class - Rob Henderson
  • A beautiful, insightful, and heartbreaking memoir that highlights why a stable, loving family is something that every child deserves.
• Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World - Tom Holland
  • A phenomenal and eye opening account of how Christian philosophy shaped western culture and thinking.
• Meditations - Marcu Aurelius
  • History's greatest self help book. Penned by one of Rome's greatest emperors. A must read for anyone interested in Stoicism.
• The End of the World Is Just the Beginning: Mapping the Collapse of Globalization - Peter Zeihan
  • The best explanation of the post-war American lead global order, and how it's falling apart. 

In this episode the boys are joined by Avery Daye. Avery is a conservative commentator and social media influencer with over 137k followers on TikTok, just under 130k followers on X, and a whopping 335k followers on Instagram. 

Listen to this episode to get Avery’s take on immigration, gender issues, whether or not Islam is compatible with the west, and a whole lot more. 

For those of you wondering what Clay was saying in the intro...

ما برای شما آزادی، رفاه و عدالت آرزو می‌کنیم. ایرانی که از زنجیرهای حکومت دینی اسلامی رها شده باشد، هدیه‌ای برای جهان خواهد بود. -> "We wish you freedom, prosperity, and justice. An Iran that is liberated from the chains of Islamic theocracy would be a gift to the world."

Please rate and review us on your podcast player of choice! It’s the best way to support us. 

Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube

Follow us on Instagram and X

Our Book Recommendations

• The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech – And Why They Fail - Nadine Strossen and Greg Lukianoff
  • A short, easy read that will arm you with the rhetorical weapons you need to fight against censorship. 
• Psychobabble: Viral Mental Health Myths & the Truths to Set You Free - Joe Nucci
  • A fascinating look at all the mental health BS you see on your social media feeds. Joe does a great job of setting the record straight. 
• Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class - Rob Henderson
  • A beautiful, insightful, and heartbreaking memoir that highlights why a stable, loving family is something that every child deserves.
• Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World - Tom Holland
  • A phenomenal and eye opening account of how Christian philosophy shaped western culture and thinking.
• Meditations - Marcu Aurelius
  • History's greatest self help book. Penned by one of Rome's greatest emperors. A must read for anyone interested in Stoicism.
• The End of the World Is Just the Beginning: Mapping the Collapse of Globalization - Peter Zeihan
  • The best explanation of the post-war American lead global order, and how it's falling apart. 

In this episode the boys are joined by Dr. Luke Conway. Luke is a social psychology researcher, professor, and author who has over a hundred pieces on the psychology of politics and culture. He has served as an associate editor for the Society for Personality in Social Psychology's flagship journal and is an elected fellow of that journal and the Society of Experimental Social Psychology. He is currently a Professor of Psychology at Grove City College, and the author of Liberal Bullies: What Psychology Teaches Us about the Left's Authoritarian Problem—and How to Fix It. More recently, Dr. Conway co-authored a fascinating new study titled An Adversarial Collaboration on the Rigidity-of-the-Right, Rigidity-of-Extremes, or Symmetry: The Answer Depends on the Question.

Listen to this episode to learn about how cognitive rigidity is not an especially conservative trait, get Luke's take on whether social psychology has become irredeemably woke, hear his surprisingly controversial opinion about a beloved fast food franchise, and much more!

Please rate and review us on your podcast player of choice! It’s the best way to support us.

Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube

Follow us on Instagram and X

Our Book Recommendations

• The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech – And Why They Fail - Nadine Strossen and Greg Lukianoff
  • A short, easy read that will arm you with the rhetorical weapons you need to fight against censorship. 
• Psychobabble: Viral Mental Health Myths & the Truths to Set You Free - Joe Nucci
  • A fascinating look at all the mental health BS you see on your social media feeds. Joe does a great job of setting the record straight. 
• Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class - Rob Henderson
  • A beautiful, insightful, and heartbreaking memoir that highlights why a stable, loving family is something that every child deserves.
• Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World - Tom Holland
  • A phenomenal and eye opening account of how Christian philosophy shaped western culture and thinking.
• Meditations - Marcu Aurelius
  • History's greatest self help book. Penned by one of Rome's greatest emperors. A must read for anyone interested in Stoicism.
• The End of the World Is Just the Beginning: Mapping the Collapse of Globalization - Peter Zeihan
  • The best explanation of the post-war American lead global order, and how it's falling apart.