The Edge of Human and AI

Dr. Olivier Malafronte launched one of the world's first AI coaching platforms in 2016, completed his PhD researching real-world leadership AI dialogues at the University of Côte d'Azur, and leads the Coaching Coalition's AI Glossary of Terms across the ICF, EMCC, and AC. In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, Olivier moves past the simplistic "human vs. machine" rivalry to map out the true future of the field: a contextual dance where clients fluidly transition between ambient AI reflection and deep human coaching. Drawing on a decade of empirical research, he explores why leaders value the non-judgmental neutrality of algorithms, how conversational AI can actually expand human empathy, and why the global industry must urgently agree on shared terminology to protect the integrity of coaching.

What you'll take away:

• The "contextual dance": how coachees navigate between 24/7 AI reflexivity and relational human depth
• Findings from 150+ leadership conversations: how AI triggers cognitive and affective self-regulation
• Why the absence of social friction allows leaders to express vulnerability they hide from colleagues
• How coaching psychology principles can serve as the ultimate guardrails for AI development
• Inside the Coaching Coalition: why defining an "AI Glossary of Terms" is essential for the future of coaching

Resources & Links:

• Guest Profile: Dr. Olivier Malafronte | LinkedIn Profile | Dr. Olivier Malafronte ICF profile
• Platform: Magif.ai Platform
• PhD Doctoral Dissertation: Malafronte, O. (2025) – Developing Leader Competence in Situation through Artificial Intelligence and Coaching, Université Côte d'Azur | Research & Dissertation Overview
• Faculty & Academic Profile: Dr. Olivier Malafronte | Université Côte d'Azur / IAE Nice
• Standards & Ethics: ICF Artificial Intelligence (AI) Coaching Framework and Standards
• Glossary Initiative: The Coaching Coalition & The AI Glossary of Terms | CoachNova AI Glossary
• Theoretical Framework: Rabardel, P. (1995) – Instrumental Genesis & Ergonomics Theory | Activity Theory Framework Overview
• Research Study on Trust: Leavitt, Barnes, et al. – Employee Trust in Algorithmic Management vs. Human Managers (Academy of Management Review) | Research Article
• Host & Academy: Rebecca Rutschmann | Viva la Coaching
• Training Program: AI Coaching Experience Designer Program

Dr. Akihiko Morita is a Japanese legal scholar, philosopher, and executive coach (PCC) with over 3,000 coaching sessions, pioneering the concept of Relational AI. Bridging Eastern philosophy, animism, and contemporary AI ethics, he invites us to dismantle the 300-year-old paradigm of human supremacy and envision a civilization where humans, nature, and artificial intelligences live in harmonious co-existence.

In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, he redefines AI not as a threat or a mere productivity tool, but as a co-developmental partner in an extended ecosystem of intelligence. Together, they explore how AI can serve as a catalyst for human wonder, why the Japanese concept of Ma (the space in between) enriches reflective practice, and why our true distinctiveness lies not in cognitive dominance, but in our capacity for vulnerability, beauty, silence, and play.

What you'll take away:

• Why the Western hierarchy of human superiority is failing us—and how Eastern animism offers a peaceful blueprint for co-existence with AI
• The concept of Relational AI: engaging in co-developmental dialogues that enhance human thinking as technology evolves
• The power of Ma: how intentional silence and non-action create the fertile ground for deep coaching breakthroughs
• The two human aspirations: balancing our technical drive for control with our ancient capacity for wonder and awe
• The graceful acceptance of limits: why vulnerability, imperfection, and non-utility are humanity's most enduring sources of value

To learn more:

• Viva La Coaching

Iliana Grosse-Buening has spent her career at the intersection of responsible technology, human flourishing, and ethics. From building educational technology across 45 countries in Sub-Saharan Africa to leading DeeplyHuman and running the Youth Imagination Lab, she has been asking one foundational question: What does good AI look like — and if human flourishing is the goal, what needs to change? In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, she unpacks what lies underneath the endless ping-pong between utopian promises and existential dread: a profound crisis of agency. Drawing on Kim Witte's Extended Parallel Process Model, cognitive metaphor theory, and insights from global youth surveys across 68 countries, Iliana makes a compelling case for narrative leadership — why the stories we consume about AI are invisible infrastructure, and how we can move from paralyzing fear to actionable, intentional design. She's not an alarmist. She's an architect of human agency. And her closing conviction? We don't have a technology problem; we have an imagination and agency problem — and the pathways to shape it are ours to build. Iliana Grosse-Buening has spent her career at the intersection of responsible technology, human flourishing, and ethics. From building educational technology across 45 countries in Sub-Saharan Africa to leading DeeplyHuman and running the Youth Imagination Lab, she has been asking one foundational question: What does good AI look like — and if human flourishing is the goal, what needs to change? In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, she unpacks what lies underneath the endless ping-pong between utopian promises and existential dread: a profound crisis of agency. Drawing on Kim Witte's Extended Parallel Process Model, cognitive metaphor theory, and insights from global youth surveys across 68 countries, Iliana makes a compelling case for narrative leadership — why the stories we consume about AI are invisible infrastructure, and how we can move from paralyzing fear to actionable, intentional design. She's not an alarmist. She's an architect of human agency. And her closing conviction? We don't have a technology problem; we have an imagination and agency problem — and the pathways to shape it are ours to build. What you'll take away: * Why asking "What does good AI look like?" must happen before we build, not after * How the endless ping-pong between AI utopia and existential dread creates a paralyzing crisis of agency * What Kim Witte's Extended Parallel Process Model teaches us about fear, control, and constructive action * Why language and metaphors ("AI arms race", "tsunami") act as invisible infrastructure that strips our sense of choice * What young people in the Youth Imagination Lab and across 68 countries are seeing that tech executives miss * How leaders and coaches can practice narrative agency and leave every room with more clarity, not less * Why asking "What does good AI look like?" must happen before we build, not after * How the endless ping-pong between AI utopia and existential dread creates a paralyzing crisis of agency * What Kim Witte's Extended Parallel Process Model teaches us about fear, control, and constructive action * Why language and metaphors ("AI arms race", "tsunami") act as invisible infrastructure that strips our sense of choice * What young people in the Youth Imagination Lab and across 68 countries are seeing that tech executives miss * How leaders and coaches can practice narrative agency and leave every room with more clarity, not less

Resources & Links:

• Riane Eisler's Work on Partnership Systems
• IEEE Global AI Systems Flourishing Initiative
• Edelman Trust Barometer
• Martin Seligman & Positive Psychology (PERMA Mode)
• Mariek van den Abeele & Digital Well-being ("Taken-for-grantedness")
• Deeply Human (London in the Loop survey)
• Iliana on LinkedIn
• Viva La Coaching

Dr. Vanessa Mai is a systemic business coach, communication scientist and researcher at the University of Cologne. Since 2019, she has been pioneering the empirical design of AI coaching chatbots. Her mission is clear: creating conversational systems that foster genuine human self-reflection rather than delivering pre-packaged advice.

In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, she bridges the gap between coaching psychology and technical architecture. She unpacks the lessons learned from evolving early rule-based chatbots into generative AI sparring partners, explaining why digital onboarding serves as vital psychological contracting, why anthropomorphic avatars and faux-empathy damage client trust, and how coaches can lead ethical AI product design.

What you'll take away:

• Why true AI coaching must provoke inquiry and self-reflection rather than spit out advice
• The critical role of digital onboarding: why the very first prompt sets the entire psychological contract
• The empathy paradox: why AI that tries too hard to sound human breeds sycophancy and breaks authenticity
• Avatar and persona design: why transparent, non-human characters build safer spaces for vulnerability
• How user drop-off data exposes latency issues, context limits, and client hesitation to challenge AI

Resources & Links:

• Rebecca & Vanessa Mai's Springer Paper (Published Jan 2023)
• Research Clicking vs. writing
• Article: Building Relationships with AI Coaches
• Jonathan Gratch's Research on Human–Machine Self-Disclosure
• Joseph Weizenbaum's Original ELIZA Paper (1966)
• Vanessa Mai's Profile and Research on Chatbot Self-Disclosure & Rapport
• Dr. Nicky Terblanche's AI Coaching Research on Research Gate
• Vanessa Mai on LinkedIn

Institute of Coaching (Harvard Medical School affiliate)—and he has spent over thirty years guiding leaders through profound paradigm shifts. Now, he's asking a fundamental question: When AI enters the room, how do human practitioners step into true stewardship?

In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, he breaks down the three evolutionary waves of coaching—from therapy and human potential, to corporate performance, to today's emerging wave of technological stewardship. He makes a compelling case for why machines cannot replicate human somatic presence and why the future of coaching relies not on resisting AI, but on deepening our inner consciousness and systemic responsibility.

What you'll take away:

• The three waves of coaching history—and why the AI era is fundamentally about stewardship, not just efficiency
• Why presence, empathy, and somatic awareness are non-negotiable core skills rather than "nice-to-haves"
• How indigenous wisdom and intergenerational thinking provide the ethical roadmap for technological disruption
• The danger of complacency: why coaches must do their own inner work before guiding leaders through AI chaos
• What gives Dr. Hull hope: how technological acceleration is pushing humanity toward deeper connection and conscious leadership

Resources & Links:

• Jeffrey Hull on LinkedIn
• Podcast Interview with Nicky Terblanche "The Uncomfortable Truth from a Researcher"
• Rebecca's Article summarizing the Zurich Coaching Perspectives 2026
• Podcast Economist Noah Yuval Harari

Nicole Forward has spent her career in the rooms where real transformation happens. From restorative justice and conflict resolution, to Fortune 100 leadership development, to her role as Head of Coaching & Development at RHR International — she has always been asking the same question: what actually makes change last?

In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, Nicole shares why AI isn't what worries her most — it's the world AI is landing in. A business landscape that quietly normalized chronic overload, where high performance and constant depletion became synonymous. And she makes a case for a different kind of leader: not the most expert, not the best-tooled, but the most rooted. The one who can hold complexity without being consumed by it.

They go deep on body intelligence and why coaching stays too much in the head. On the danger of trusting your watch more than your own nervous system. On what it would mean to marry psychometric and biometric data — and why we're closer than most people realize. And they end with a question neither of them fully answers: how do we remain authentic in a world that's becoming increasingly artificial?

In this episode, Nicole and Rebecca explore:

• Why the real AI problem isn't the technology — it's the exhausted environments it's being deployed into
• What the leader of the future actually needs (and why expertise and tools won't be enough)
• Why coaching tends to stay "neck-up" — and what shifts when you include body intelligence
• The two-day coaching workshop story that reveals what separates ego-driven presence from real presence
• Nicole's vision for merging psychometrics and biometrics — and what's still standing in the way
• The question Nicole wishes we were all asking: how do we remain authentic in a world becoming increasingly artificial?

Resources & Links:

• Nicole on LinkedIn
• Viva La Coaching

There are two kinds of people in the age of AI. Those who use it to elevate their judgment — and those who quietly outsource their judgment to it. The difference between them isn't technical. It's a choice. And most leaders don't realize they're making it.

Shanda Mints has spent 25 years transforming workforces at global scale and over a decade deploying AI in talent and leadership — long before generative AI made this conversation unavoidable. As VP AI Strategy & Transformation at Korn Ferry, she brings something rare: a perspective built on 50 years of leadership performance data, 11,000+ clients, and the hard-won clarity that comes from being in the room when organizations get this right — and when they don't.

Her argument is simple and counterintuitive: the AI-ready leader has nothing to do with AI. It has everything to do with judgment. The 6 super factors that define leaders who thrive through transformation are all human competencies — and critical thinking, not AI literacy, is the one CEOs are hiring for right now.

If you lead people, make decisions, or coach leaders through change — this conversation is for you.

In this episode, Shanda and Rebecca explore:

• How AI should elevate, not outsource, human judgment for people at all levels rather than using it to enhance their own decision-making; from entry-level to executives
• Why not all AI is the same
• How the human experience is irreplaceable and what humans uniquely bring isn't just "judgment" but lived experience
• Why bad data in is bad data out and how many organizations are trying to apply AI before their data is clean or complete.
• How a large-scale study found that coachee traits like agreeableness, striving, focus, and sociability map to different coaching style preferences and revealed data that can inform more personalized AI-assisted coaching systems
• Six "super factors" for AI-ready leadership
• How vibe coding requires iteration and conceptual thinking suggesting that leaders should roll up their sleeves and experiment with AI tools: it's all about the the iterative process

Resources & Links:

• The AI Ready Leader (article)
• From Feedback to Impact (article)
• Step Up The Coaching Game (article)
• Shanda on LinkedIn
• Viva La Coaching

Jessica Singh was a board-certified emergency physician — trained at Stanford, credentialed by ICF and NBHWC — when she realized that none of her expertise was what was actually transforming people.

What was? The coaching relationship itself. The presence. The inner work. The willingness to sit with someone without needing to fix them.

In this episode, Jessica shares the journey from a Pediatric ER where she was told burnout and suicidal thoughts were "completely normal," through yoga, Ayurveda, and a physician wellness fellowship at Stanford, to building a brand-new Health and Wellbeing Coaching Certificate at NYU — the university where she started as a pre-med student decades ago.

We talk about what whole-person coaching actually demands of a practitioner, why health and leadership coaching have stayed stubbornly apart despite being inseparable, and how to build a curriculum that is rigorous enough for a world-class institution and alive enough to genuinely transform someone.

And we talk about the gap — the one between the professional bio and the interior life — that Jessica is still working to close herself.

Because the core process of coaching is universally human. It doesn't require an expert. It requires someone willing to do the work.

In this episode, Jessica and Rebecca explore:

• Jessica's journey through burnout and depression during residency, and how a yoga teacher training became the first time she truly learned what health meant
• What Jessica discovered during her Stanford fellowship about why healthcare institutions are structured the way they are, and why it isn't the individual doctor's fault
• Building a new health and wellbeing coaching program at NYU and how Jessica has created a coach education program that blends evidence-based rigor with a whole-person, heart-centered approach
• Why health and wellbeing still lack a universally agreed-upon definition, and what coaches must be willing to face in themselves before they can genuinely hold space for others
• Bridging leadership coaching and health coaching and why these fields have stayed stubbornly apart
• Integrating AI into coach training and how AI is already mirroring back what people truly need support with, and why ethical AI literacy is essential from day one of a coaching program
• Jessica's upcoming book inspired by the question: what if physicians knew the issues before they entered the system, instead of getting destroyed and having to rebuild?

Resources & Links:

• Jessica's Podcast "The Health and Wellness Coach Journal"
• The NYU Health & Wellbeing Coaching Program
• Manifesto for AI in Coaching: vivalacoaching.com/manifesto
• Become AI-informed — Rebel Store: vivalacoaching.com
• All episodes: vivalacoaching.com/vivapodcast

Dr. Laura Rees-Davies is a Chartered Coaching Psychologist, Senior Lecturer at Cardiff Metropolitan University, and active practicing coach — and she's mid-way through something most researchers don't have the nerve to do: interviewing coaches at every point of the AI adoption spectrum, and following the data wherever it leads.

What she's finding surprised even her.

In this conversation with Rebecca Rutschmann, Laura shares what 25 qualitative interviews have already revealed: coaches who've built their entire practice around AI and coaches who want nothing to do with it don't disagree on what coaching is for. They carry the same hopes. The same concerns. The same core belief — that coaching exists to help people flourish, to grow, and to eventually not need the coach anymore.

The disagreement isn't about values. It's about the one question the whole field is working to answer: what is the actual difference between a human coach and an AI coach?

And then there's the risk she doesn't hear enough people talking about.

Not coaches being left behind. Coaches moving forward carelessly — using tools that hold sensitive conversations without informed consent, without data protection, without asking what a platform does with what gets said in a session. Or with what gets said about them.

She doesn't see the danger in resistance. She sees it in acceleration without guardrails.

Laura co-researches with Professor Jonathan Passmore, co-signed the Manifesto for AI in Coaching, and presented on the research panel at the NYU Coaching and Technology Summit 2026. My closing reflection might stay with you long after the episode ends.

In this episode, Laura and Rebecca explore:

• What 25 qualitative interviews have already surfaced — and what surprised Laura most
• The difference between coaches who are "unskilled and unaware" vs. those who actively choose not to use AI
• Why "evidence-based" and "research-informed" are not the same thing — and how to tell the difference
• The democratic promise of AI coaching — and its real limits
• Why Laura worries less about coaches falling behind, and more about coaches moving forward without protecting their clients or themselves
• What informed consent really looks like when AI enters the coaching relationship
• Why the gap between sessions — the discomfort of not having an answer yet — might matter more than we think

Resources & Links

• Manifesto for AI in Coaching: vivalacoaching.com/manifesto
• Laura's AI in Coaching research survey (with Prof. Jonathan Passmore)
• Become AI-informed — Rebel Store: vivalacoaching.com
• All episodes: vivalacoaching.com/vivapodcast

Participate in Laura's Research:

Laura and Professor Jonathan Passmore are running a quantitative survey on self-efficacy, perceived ethical risk of AI in coaching, and professional identity. They need 250 participants — and want to hear from coaches whether or not you use AI. Listen within the next four weeks and use the survey link above to get involved.

There's a moment when competency stops being enough. You know the techniques. You've logged the hours. You've helped people move. And still — something in you knows there's a further shore, and the models you've mastered can't take you there. David Drake has spent 30 years mapping what lies beyond mastery. As the creator of Narrative Coaching and author of the forthcoming Five Maturities, he has been building a language for something most coaches can feel but rarely name: the difference between getting better at what you do — and becoming something different altogether.

This conversation is about that becoming.

In this episode, Rebecca and David explore:

• Why maturity is not just more mastery — and how competency models take you from novice to adequate but never to wise
• The Five Maturities framework and what it actually asks of a coach willing to move beyond identity and defensiveness
• The Third Spaces model — and why staying in the ping-pong match keeps us circling the same carousel
• What a rappelling guide taught David about presence, and why your feet know things your head doesn't
• How AI will reshape the coaching landscape — and what that frees humans to finally become
• And the question David returns to throughout his work: What is calling you?

This is a conversation for coaches who suspect the horses could run — if they'd just let them off the carousel.

Resources:

David runs the Moment Institute: themomentinstitute.com His personal website: www.davidbdrake.com His book on the Five Maturities is out in August 2026