The Ethical Rainmaker

Kevin Baker is bringing that rich voice and beautiful mindset to The Ethical Rainmaker! Kevin is a consultant whose mission focuses on making sure people can bring their authentic cultural selves to the workplace, creating healthier, more open workspaces that better serve employees and their clients. And he does this all through a diversity and inclusion lens. 

You can find Kevin (and hire him) at The Kevin Baker Consulting

Thank you so much to Kevin for all the deep work you have done and for the work you do!!

The Ethical Rainmaker is a podcast, hosted by Michelle Shireen Muri, that explores the world of inequity in nonprofits and philanthropy, including where we should step into our power or step out of the way! It is my desire and effort to bring zero-cost information, case studies, and inspiration to everyone in the third sector — especially those who want to do better on this journey.

Soma Snakeoil and Stacey Dee are founders of The Sidewalk Project, bringing compassion instead of judgment to people living on the streets. “When systems fall down, people stand up!” 

• The Sidewalk Project
• Soma Snakeoil, also called Goddess Soma, is an activist, a mediation facilitator, a visionary artist, a playright, a professional dominatrix…
• Stacee Dee’s band Bad Cop / Bad Cop (wiki, spotify)

Thank you so much to Stacy and Soma for sharing your deeply personal stories and for the work you do!!

The Ethical Rainmaker is a podcast, hosted by Michelle Shireen Muri, that explores the world of inequity in nonprofits and philanthropy, including where we should step into our power or step out of the way! It is my desire and effort to bring zero-cost information, case studies, and inspiration to everyone in the third sector — especially those who want to do better on this journey.

Follow the Ethical Rainmaker on Instagram, Twitter, listen wherever podcasts are found, and consider supporting the Ethical Rainmaker through Patreon!

Follow the Ethical Rainmaker on Instagram, Twitter, listen wherever podcasts are found, and consider supporting the Ethical Rainmaker through Patreon!

Marina Martinez-Batemanis a communications strategy consultant with over 20 years motivating people to take action. They are a serial entrepreneur, having started their work life and first business at the age of 13, and having created, consulted on, planned, and launched multiple business and projects 

Marina’s businesses and hustle is about making money — without sacrificing their principles or values — which is really hard to do! They are a popular speaker, trainer, and peer mentor in the industry around topics like #abundance, #mentalhealth, #latinxleaders, #accountability, and #valuesbasedleadership.

Connect with Marina:

• Marina For Hire
• New Coyote
• LinkedIn
• Twitter

A lot of our content in this episode was story form — thank you so much to Marina for sharing their deeply personal stories!

The Ethical Rainmaker is a podcast, hosted by Michelle Shireen Muri, that explores the world of inequity in nonprofits and philanthropy, including where we should step into our power or step out of the way! It is my desire and effort to bring zero-cost information, case studies, and inspiration to everyone in the third sector — especially those who want to do better on this journey.

Matthew Cuban Hernandez, is an award winning poet, emcee, performance artist and storyteller…. a rapper, actor and performance coach, as well as the author of:

• the book 3032, an anthology of poems
• …and two hip-hop albums - Ivanna and Ivanna 2. 

You can purchase the book or albums here.

As a performer, Cuban has opened for artists like Wu-Tang, and he’s been featured on BuzzFeed, NPR and tv spots. 

A teaching artist for nearly ten years, Matthew has spent the last six years working in youth detention centers across Los Angeles County, and is currently serving as: 

• the Director of Camp Programming for Street Poets, Inc. In addition, 
• he is a current Lead Teacher and Co-Founder of Spoken Literature Art Movement

Oh and he’s a fundraiser too - launching his book through a kickstarter campaign!

• You can find him on:
  • Facebook: @MatthewCuban
  • Insta: @matthewcubanofficial
  • Twitter: @matthewcuban

A lot of our content in this episode was story form and on many different topics but here are notes on…

• Honesty
  • “My favorite form of poetry is honesty” - Matthew Cuban Hernandez Matthew says that he believes honesty is a form of poetry in part because we so rarely hear it or experience it, even with ourselves” When you hear true honestly, it's like oh my god its beautiful.”
     
• At minute 8:08 Matthew talks about when it is an isn’t helpful to be honest, healthy dialogue…
   
• He also talks about how we are afraid to be openly wrong, that we [societally] don't allow room for that growth or building to happen b/c we want to be correct and we are scared of expressing an honest feeling and have others make us feel “less than.”
   
• He also talks about the honesty of correcting narratives ex: @ 11:19, when 90% of the people in youth detention are Black and brown kids, the kids might think “oh, well white kids must not do crime.” But Matthew points out the necessity of honesty here too “that’s not the actuality of what you are dealing with. There is a whole pipeline set up to have you right here right now…” “its not just you vs the judge/officers/another block/the GED system/trying to get a job/the college system. Understanding that these things are symbiotic is a big step in the right direction. 

Kristina Wong does some pretty incredible things with her life energy and creativity - damn! 

• You can find Kristina Wong on:
  • Facebook: @ilovekristinawong
  • Insta: @mskristinawong
  • Twitter: @mskristinawong
  • Venmo: @givekristinawongmoney

In this episode we talked about several bodies of work she has created including:

• The Auntie Sewing Squad
  • The massive mutual-aid network of volunteers across the United States, sewing homemade masks for vulnerable communities - like asylum seekers on the border,  which Kristina started. In early 2022 they are still sewing and involve hundreds of Aunties, shipping thousands of masks to vulnerable communities across the US. 
• The Book = Auntie Sewing Squad: Mask Making, Radical Care, Racial Justice (released 2021) talks about America’s pursuit of global empire at the cost of its citizens, the significance of women of color performing a historically gendered and racialized invisible labor…
  • And was written with cool coauthor Rebecca Solnit
• Kristina Wong, Sweatshop Overlord
• Kristina Wong for Pubic Office
  • She’s actually an elected official at her neighborhood council in LA’s Korea Town
  • Legit check out her hand sewn props and if you have time, her interview on Sew and So is great! (and literally a sewing podcast.)
• Big Bad Chinese Mama.com a performance piece, her fake harem of brides - a “sophomoric” project that is still up!
• She’s been a guest on late night shows on NBC, Comedy Central, NFX…I watched ALL of these TV spots and you’ll enjoy them too!

Kristina references:

• Jose Luis Valenzuela and Teatro Campesino as well as Guillermo Gomez Pena as key artists of inspiration 
• Art to Action, as the generous fiscal sponsor for The Auntie Sewing Squad
• Wild Harvest Food Bank is an LA food bank, operates as a grocery store for all, and their CEO Glen Corrado, 
  • $50 p/month food challenge, where she survives on that budget every month!
• Upcoming Project? Kristina plans a concept called Food Bank Influencer working on perhaps a food bank performance space to benefit the Navajo Nation - a nation which she reports, has only 13 grocery stores spread across three states serving 300,000 tribal citizens.

Lea Whitehurst Gibson and Bekah Kendrick talk to us about the processes they created and used to develop a community-centered organization with courageous fundraising principles…

• Virginia Community Voice “So our mission overall is to equip neighbors and historically marginalized communities to realize their vision for their communities. And then the second part of our vision, our mission is to prepare institutions to respond effectively.” Learn more and follow them on socials: Facebook, Insta, Twitter, LinkedIn and of course, you can donate here.
  • Facebook: @virginiacommunityvoice
  • Insta: @vacommunityvoice     
  • Website:   https://vacommunityvoice.org/
• Lea Whitehurst Gibson is the Executive Director of VCV and is a seasoned community organizer. Priori to leading the VCV, Lea was the Director of Community Engagement at Thriving Cities Group. She also worked for Richmonders Involved to Strengthen our Communities (RISC) where she organized 1,000 people in 20 diverse congregations to stand together for just practices. Lea has a degree in theology from Elim Bible College.At VACV Lea oversees the organization’s operations, fundraising, staff and board development, and leads Community Voice Blueprint training and coaching. Lea and her husband are foster parents and live on Richmond’s Northside.Contact Lea at [email protected].
• Bekah Kendrick is an experienced nonprofit professional, grantmaker, and grant writer. Prior roles include: Technical & Grant Writer for Thriving Cities Group, Director of Community Impact: Education at United Way of Greater Richmond & Petersburg, and Director of Programs at MentorVirginia. Bekah has a Bachelors in American Studies from The College of William & Mary and Master’s in English from Virginia Commonwealth University. She manages fund development and communications for Virginia Community Voice. Bekah enjoys reading, hiking, and being near the water with her husband and son.Contact Bekah at [email protected].
• Find the Community Voice Blueprint here
• Virginia Community Voice was inspired by Community Centric Fundraising and its July 2020 launch!
• Here are the 10 principles of CCF, and here are the Courageous Fundraising Principles of Virginia Community Voice

Process: 
Virginia Community Voice equips their neighbors to realize their vision for their own neighborhoods. Locally they work with marginalized communities that have not historically been listened to or heard and implementing the solutions they think best for their communities. And they work to prepare the official decision makers and traditional positional authority to listen and implement those solutions. All of this is towards a commitment for equity for the entire Commonwealth of Virginia - and specifically in Richmond, which is the former capital of the Confederacy.

It's important to know their programs:

1) RVA Thrives, has a goal and mission of equipping neighbors to realize their vision for their own community and to make sure they have resources and coaching to engage in what is happening in the neighborhood (food access, affordable housing, gentrification etc.) 

2) Community Voice Blueprint (downloadable for free) is a four-step guide to community engagement around which they offer coaching and training.

As they are a Black and woman led organization, they wanted to make sure that their inception did not include the traditional racist and donor-centric practices that most npos use.

Here are a few notes about what Bekah and Lea describe as part of their process:

• They set the intention of dismantling old ways and centering racial equity, and “injecting equity into our entire process”
• They questioned whether they needed to start another nonprofit
• They looked for resources and saw no documented path towards equitable community engagement
• As they formed the organization (as a spin off of a white-led organization) they took the time to research fundraising norms and ways of working that they disliked and are rooted in white supremacy. 
• In doing research in current norms and racism in philanthropy/fundraising specifically, they identified the most problematic: 
  • Donor centric fundraising only presents one model of who a donor can be. Said Bekah: “we knew we wanted to have a more democratic and accessible model in which all gifts are valued equally, no matter whether they're small or large, whether they're monetary or time. “
  • Avoid communication that objectifies people, is myopic, acts as poverty porn or tourism, charity model or promotes white saviourism. Said Bekah: we wanted to move away from that toward communication storytelling that is affirming, that is telling a more complete and complex picture. Even if it's one that is uncomfortable.”
  • Wanted to acknowledge and talk openly about how wealth is accumulated, the racist roots of nonprofits and philanthropy and how wealth is extracted through genocide, extraction of labor, and enslavement of people, and how foundations were founded. 
• In summer 2020, they are inspired by the community centric fundraising principles and were already in the process of developing their own Courageous Fundraising Principles and their fundraising model. 
• Once they had formulated their thoughts, they spent a lot of time working with all staff members, to make sure all felt invested and were engaged. Their staff include neighbors, considered community engagement specialists or community advocates (and they are at every staff meeting.)
• Then they went to their neighborhood steering committee
• Then they worked with their board as individuals, and then as a group
• They also took the time to talk to Spanish-speaking communities - translating the work and receiving feedback. And Black communities as well.
• They took their time!
• Once the Courageous Fundraising Principles were finalized, they threw a virtual party on Giving Tuesday to share with board, neighbors, investors and answered the following:
  • What does it actually mean to invest in local community?
  • How does VCV understand its relationship to money and to donors?
  • What is a true investment?
  • Why is this important? Why are old ways unethical?
  • Where does VCV believe it should we be investing its time?
  •  They also asked folx to give feedback. (And they raised money)
• As part of tactics, they intentionally began using the term “investor” - investing time and money. 
• They ask for folx to become “members” and membership includes a monthly recurring investment as well as three hours a month, amplifying the voices of people of color. They promise to honor these investments equally.
• They continually ask themselves “Is this the right way to do this? Is this causing harm whose voices are not at the table?”
• They respond to the community and are transparent with their budgeting process and budget
• In working with institutions, they envision that when they sign a grant agreement with grant guidelines, the funder will also agree to guidelines from VCV, affirming what they are doing. 
• In creating their board of directors, the based their board on the community itself. With at least 75% people of color, who have lived experiences in marginalization. They deprioritized wealthy folx and report that they have not suffered from that choice. With a board that comes from the community, they have more equitable outcomes!

In giving advice, Lea says: “You will get pushback from people saying, like, I'm not sure!...Are you sure?” People of color were worried. Not because they didn't think it was the right thing or it was the right way to go, but they were worried for us as an organization because of potential retaliation that could come from something like this. 

But here's the thing - we have not seen that, we have not seen retaliation. We have seen our capacity grow. We have seen, investment stay and in some places grow because we've chosen to do the bold thing. Again, when you hit a point of tension on the other side, there's beauty. It is also still scary. But we're going to push forward because we know that there is something more beautiful on the other side. And that has been true of my life in general. But specifically in this space, it was scary, but also right.”

So much wisdom in this episode but I love this quote:

“For us, this is not about just doing this work, doing you know, our courageous fundraising principles, , focusing our work around equity, focusing our work around the community, rooted solutions to the problems that we face every day for the sake of doing that. We are doing it because our lives are at stake, our communities are at stake, our families are at stake. And that is the reason for this. It is not about what we think the next big thing is or how we want to move, you know, in the world differently. It is about, the very soul of our spaces, of our communities, of our lives, of our children's lives. What I want to say is this, this is real life. It affects real people. And if we don't start to change things, our children are going to keep dying in the street. That's, what's going to keep happening. If we allow our culture to support in equitable outcomes and equitable processes and equitable policies that is what's going to keep happening.”

Okay also this one: 

“...you have the opportunity to pivot and to say, we need to do something differently or to kind of stay the course along the norms that are continually hurting our communities. And so we made the choice to pivot and that's, and that's actually where the beauty came from. Cause you know, it's, it's a point of tension, right? Like you get to a point where you're like, oh, we're doing something that's not fully equitable. Do we cover it up? Do we like, you know, wash it over or do we, or do we lean into the tension and say we didn't do something right. We admit to it and we want to change it. And what I find every single time is that there's beauty on the other side of leaning into that tension.”

Tomme Beevas lives out his values in ways that we hope will inspire you too! 

In this episode we talked about the tremendous work he participated in at:

• Pimento Relief Services - learn more and follow them on socials: Facebook, Insta, Twitter, LinkedIn and of course, you can donate here.
  • Facebook: @pimentorelief
  • Insta: @pimentoreliefservices
  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pimento-relief-services/
  • Website:   https://pimentoreliefservices.org/
• Pimento Jamaican Kitchen and Rum Bar is Tomme’s restaurant and there are many tv episodes that feature he or the restaurant - this is the newest…a dinner with the Beevas family on the Magnolia Network
  • Facebook: @pimentokitchen
  • Insta: @pimentokitchen
  • Twitter: @pimentokitchen

Tomme notes that Pimento Relief Services was created for those “on the front lines of liberation.” Pimento Relief Services was created after the lynching of George Floyd. He later talks about the 99’ murder of Amadou Diallo as well. As I write these notes, we have just learned of the shooting of 4 year old Arianna Delane, George Floyd’s niece, who was asleep in her bed when a yet-to-be-identified person shot into her apartment.

Tomme lists Marcus Garvey as one of the north stars of Pimento Relief Services, and quotes him saying: “Take advantage of every opportunity; where there is none, make it for yourself.”

Michelle refers to her experience at Sexual Violence Law Center, talks about the Harlem Nutcraker by Spectrum Dance

Tomme refers to the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals which we could use to see how US cities are developing - as the US holds other countries to these standards…

Process: 
Here are a few notes about what Tomme lists as how Pimento Relief Services was built to serve the community:

• They took a meeting place that already existed as a safe, community-based space: Pimento Jamaican Kitchen and Rum Bar
• Friends and community members were invited to identify their own needs!
• Needs included food as the primary need for which they threw a food drive. (Tomme points out that Minneapolis is the food headquarters of the world, and yet Minneapolis had a food desert in their city.)
• They coordinated an active list of needs for those on the frontlines of liberation - reporting needs out in real time via social media (needs ranged from fire extinguishers to insulin, diapers to food.)
• A week later, they threw a healing event, involving yoga, art, and other healing modalities
• The following week they held a gathering with 150 of the top leaders of the community in the small backyard of the restaurant - including religious leaders, the mayor, business leaders etc talking about how these groups could provide services to those on the frontline of liberation in the community
• Tomme defines liberation in three categories:
  • Economic Liberation: How do we create more Black business leaders, how do we elevate folks in their occupations?
  • Social Liberation: Tomme includes Food Justice, Social Justice, Academic Justice (women in academia, accurate political and social history,
  • Political Liberation: How do we get people to show up for voting, running for office - what resources do they need to run their campaign, political action committee that funds candidates

Big pieces of wisdom:
Tomme drops wisdom through the entire episode, from how we use consultants, how we create community, how to center people from the beginning, what liberation looks like and overarching philosophy about our highest purpose. But here are just a few quotes: 

“Start with Trust. Trust the people you’re serving to know what they need, and know what they want...I simply got out of the way and allowed them to build the community that they needed in the space that I happened to be a steward of.”

“Growing up in Jamaica, we recognized that even if there is just one loaf of bread…that’s enough to feed our whole community.”

“The roots of it go back to that greater responsibility to serve one’s community. Because our purpose is much bigger than we are. And when we think of our community itself, I feel as if each and every one of us have a greater responsibility. So for example, as a black man, I have a greater responsibility to my community. As a Jamaican, I have a greater responsibility specifically to my Jamaican community. I'm imagining as a white man, he should have a greater responsibility..and in the LGBTQ plus community. We each have a greater responsibility…And so it's answering that call to service, you know, stepping up and doing one's duty for that greater responsibility is how I've ended up here. And if nothing else, that's what I hope that people get from this conversation today. And if nothing else, I hope that's something I can pass on to my children.”

We are so pleased to connect with Vivien Trinh and Nathan Harris of the Oregon Food Bank, where they are changing the way our sector works, by developing practices that center love!

• Vivien Trinh is the Community Philanthropy Associate Director of Operations at the Oregon Food Bank. With 11 years of philanthropy experience, her career has taken her through the many aspects of philanthropy including direct mail, digital fundraising, donor relations, database management and prospect development at non-profits of all sizes. As the daughter of refugees, she is deeply committed to building inclusive communities that honor the dignity of each individual. You can reach out to Vivien at [email protected].
   
• Nathan Harris is the Director of Community Philanthropy at Oregon Food Bank. He has nearly two decades in philanthropic development, working at the intersection of love and generosity to realize transformational change. Before coming to Oregon Food Bank in 2019, Nathan served as chief development officer at Freedom for All Americans, an organization dedicated to securing nationwide LGBTQ nondiscrimination protections by 2025. He previously served as director of leadership gifts and Centennial Campaign at ACLU of Northern California and was the Director of Advancement at Transgender Law Center. You can reach Nathan at [email protected]. 

References and Notes:

• Learn more about the Oregon Food Bank and follow them on socials: Facebook, Insta, Twitter, LinkedIn and donate here! OFB has a budget of $34M, with 200 staff, 63k annual donors, and 40k annual volunteers. 
• OFB Community Philanthropy: Theory of Change, Strategic Priorities, Key Hallmarks of Love, Staff Bill of Rights 
• bell hooks defines love as “the extension of one’s spiritual growth  'the will to extend one's self for the the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth.”
• Focusing on Fundraising Goals is Harmful, Let’s Measure Love Instead by Vivien Trinh
• How to Measure a Year. What about Love? On the OFB website
• “Seasons of Love” from Rent!
• Risk: We talked about risk and Nathan names that “risk”in changing the practices and tools of doing the work, is to be questioned. That one perspective is the fear of change or fear of something different. Vivien invites us to think about risk, as defined by who might be harmed by our practices and tools...and to center the healing of those folx. 

Process: 
Here are some of the processes and practices OFB discussed within this episode...

• Vivien and a few folks started an Equity in Fundraising work group within their department to casually explore community-centric ideas. They later created a “Love” working group as well.
• When Nathan came on 2 years ago, they began to focus their work towards building new practices
• Vivien mentions that unpacking “love” as a word through introspection and team conversation, was the kernel that helped them move forward in designing the “how” of measuring love. They focused on how love might inform their values and how it could change what philanthropy could mean.
• OFB celebrates Shiree Teng, who they partnered with in the design of the staff self-assessment. The creation of the tool was influenced by her brown paper, “ Measuring Love on the Journey for Justice. (we didn't talk about this on the pod)
• Performance Metrics: 
  One tool they developed is a staff self-assessment, with the purpose of the assessment focused on reflecting on a staff person’s individual  work over the past 6 month period. 
  
  Their assessment asks questions like: Do I feel like my work as a relationship manager or a gift entry specialist is values-aligned with myself in this moment? Do I feel like I am making meaningful change in the world? Am I having hard conversations with donors? Am I bringing them along a political journey?
  
  In their database, OFB has the ability to code contact reports that our relationship managers have with their donors around these indicators of love.
• Vivien shares: “...the hope is that we're collecting this information so that we can pull it out and analyze, not like in a punitive way of like, you're not having enough hard conversations with donors, but, if you're not able to code your contact reports with these indicators, what is that telling you about where you are in your professional career at this moment? Do you feel like you're engaging in the work in a way that's meaningful to you and if not, how do we make it happen? What do you need personally, in order to grow, in your career in a way that is pulling away from that centralizing of money?” 
• They propose is to rethink what data we capture and to encourage behavior toward financial goals and encourage behavior toward growth and self-reflection.
• In creating a collective definition of “love” they identified aspects of love like growth, shared values, care. They later shared that  they have a full “Love Indicators” list complete with a Bill of Rights and definitions! These include: Actions for the Common Good, Care, Client Centered, Community, Engagement, Equity, Growth, Partnership, Respect, and Shared Values.
• Nathan points out that they have also created other instruments to assess other aspects of love.
• Another tool is the donor survey, where they ask in 10-15 contexts, whether and how a donor considers their gift to be a contribution of love. “...do you consider your donation...an expression of your love for the organization, the mission? For the vision? For your neighbors?...the systemic inequity that drives hunger? ...Do you experience your supportive Oregon, Oregon food bank as an expression of love? And I think on average 60% or more of our donors agreed strongly, like, yes I do.” 
  Vivien mentions that the donor survey allows the team to be bolder and confident in their work. Nathan mentions that they can be bolder and more strategic in their messaging to facilitate the political journey and facilitate “love” for other (in one example, the love of their surveyed community towards immigrant communities could be increased by political education.)
• Another practice involves prospect development/portfolio management. In this field of practice, OFB is starting to ask themselves questions around the transformational outcome of a relationship. 
  
  “It doesn't have to be money. It can be a sharing of a story that helps us move, our donors through a political journey, because they have either lived experience, with hunger or with, discrimination or lived experience of systemic oppression. It could be, they have a rich network of, or they have a community that we haven't engaged with in the past that they can introduce Oregon food bank to. It provides an opportunity to recognize all the different ways that people can contribute to their community that can take action.”
  
  Nathan also talks about how they operate with equity not equality, so they are not able to “treat everyone the same.” Instead they focus on increasing the likelihood that an individual will have a love-centered and transformative experience. Transactional to transformational. They later shared that they’d like to celebrate Justice Funders and ongoing collaboration with Mario Lugay, Senior Innovation Director, and they acknowledge the Just Transition for Philanthropy (and Just Transition) framework.
  
  They mention decreasing the size of portfolios to allow staff to spend more time connecting with their donors, and paying attention to wether these relationships are being tended to with mutual care, respectful interactions and community-centrism.
• Nathan notes that OFB is in the silent phase of a large campaign and as such, they are prioritizing donors that can have high capacity, but within that, they are looking at and prioritizing values alignment, love, and vision.
  
  Vivien mentions cross-referencing amongst multiple (databases and platforms) places, to better understand how the community member(s) engage with Oregon Food Bank. Are they interacting in multiple ways? Have they donated, volunteered or taken a political action? Vivien mentions that when an individual is engaging on multiple platforms/ways, they are a better candidate for connection/portfolio work.
   
• Vivien and Nathan alluded to other tools they are using internally, but we did not have time to discuss in the show!

Big pieces of wisdom:

Vivien ”you can move quickly and you can leverage the sense of urgency that I think sometimes I shy away from that urgency is important when it is focused on justice. And in that urgency, the point is not to bring everyone along is to center people at the margins.”

Nathan “the power of our people and the wisdom of the collective and the possibilities that live at the intersection of the power of our people and the wisdom of our collective. Like we have so much opportunity in this profession to do something extraordinary, transformational and very, very different than what's been done before.

We're the ones in these roles keep your best practices. I'll take my better practices. They haven't been designed yet, but I believe in the wisdom of our collective to do that kind of designing. If those best practices don't seem to be working. And I don't think the limitation of that is just how we work. I think that our field can transform philanthropy by working differently than we ever have before. Like take back that power. We absolutely have it. And in doing so, I think our communities can be and will be better served.”