The Experience Edge

“Nobody’s just trying to withdraw money.”

That line from the podcast episode with Nathan Zahm (Vanguard) sparked this episode - and it reveals a blind spot in how most teams approach customer experience.

In this video, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) unpacks the three-level journey model used at Vanguard and why so many teams miss the middle: the moments that matter.

If your team is optimizing for task completion or designing abstract lifecycle stages, but struggling to create real impact - this model is what you're missing.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why task journeys (what the customer does) are just one layer
• How moments that matter (what the customer feels) bridge short-term action and long-term strategy
• What defines a life journey (what the customer wants) - and how to show up when it matters most

The three types of value this model unlocks

• Metrics to track each level: from call deflection to drop-off rates to customer lifetime value
• Real examples from Vanguard: retirement planning, 529 savings, and building trust across decades
• Why most CX teams fail to act - and how this framework helps you prioritize what actually matters

Join the conversation:

What are the moments that matter that your company needs to get right - and do you?

See the podcast episode with Nathan Zahm here.

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:

Explore Journey Management with TheyDo:

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #TheyDo #Vanguard #MomentsThatMatter #CustomerJourney #OperationalExcellence #EmotionalDesign #LifeJourneys #CXLeadership

In this energizing episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer is joined by customer experience visionary Dan Gingiss. With leadership roles at Discover, McDonald's, and Humana, and as author of Becoming the Experience Maker, Dan shares how companies can transform everyday interactions into powerful brand moments. The conversation dives into Dan’s WISER framework - a tactical approach to designing experiences that customers can’t help but talk about.

Together, they explore how CX isn't just a department but a company-wide mindset, and Dan offers real-world examples of how tiny improvements can drive major business outcomes. From eliminating website friction to activating back-office teams as CX advocates, this episode is packed with practical wisdom on making customer experience a core business driver. A must-listen for CX leaders looking to move from theory to tangible impact.

Guest Bio

Dan Gingiss is an international keynote speaker, author, and former Fortune 200 executive with over two decades of experience in customer experience and marketing. His career spans leadership roles at Discover, McDonald’s, and Humana, and he is the author of two influential books: Becoming the Experience Maker and Winning at Social Customer Care. Dan is also the co-host of the award-winning podcast Experience This! and a respected voice in CX thought leadership, known for his actionable WISER framework that helps brands become truly memorable.

Takeaways

• CX is a shared responsibility, not just the job of one department.
• Even back-office teams impact customer experience.
• Immersing executives in their own customer journeys reveals critical friction points.
• Eliminating small annoyances (like unnecessary form fields) can massively boost conversions.
• A WISER experience is: Witty, Immersive, Shareable, Extraordinary, and Responsive.
• Ordinary experiences are opportunities waiting to be improved.
• Business cases for CX improvements should tie directly to ROI or cost savings.
• Listening to earnings calls can help CX teams align with company priorities.
• Brands like Chewy and Zappos win customer loyalty by showing empathy and over-delivering.
• Pricing changes (like tariffs) should be transparently communicated to customers.
• Responsive service during tough times builds lasting loyalty.
• CX transformation is not a one-time project—it’s a daily mindset.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Dan Gingiss

01:20 The mindset shift: CX is everyone’s job

04:36 The cashless restaurant case study

08:22 Executives must become their own customers

10:13 Removing friction in digital onboarding

14:18 How to scale CX beyond the low-hanging fruit

16:30 Daily CX improvements over giant transformations

20:23 Linking CX to financial ROI

25:04 Why CX teams struggle to speak business language

29:53 The WISER framework unpacked

42:41 When not to apply the WISER framework

46:19 Leadership buy-in and prioritization

47:08 Navigating pricing and tariffs in CX

51:19 Brands that have your back build loyalty

53:17 Chewy: A masterclass in emotional CX

55:34 Where to find Dan Gingiss

LinkedIn

Follow Dan Gingiss

Follow Jochem van der Veer

Journey Mapping is Dead. What comes next?

Journey maps are like blueprints without builders. Beautiful and insightful - but ultimately useless unless someone owns the outcome.

In this video, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) breaks down why most customer journey maps fail to drive measurable impact - and introduces the shift from static maps to living systems of journey management.

If you’ve ever spent months building journeys that never get used, this one’s for you.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why over 80% of journey maps fail - and what to do about it

• Why beautiful maps on walls don’t drive change without ownership and accountability

• The life cycle of a journey map - and why it usually ends in failure

• What journey management really means

• Three steps to move from mapping to managing

• Why insight > alignment > action is the real path to customer-centric outcomes

• How leading companies use journey governance to increase CX and operational efficiency

Join the conversation:

What’s one journey in your business that gets mapped - but never acted on?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:

Explore Journey Management with TheyDo#JourneyMapping #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #TheyDo #CXLeadership #DigitalTransformation #CustomerJourney #MappingToManaging #Silos #DecisionSupport

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem welcomes Sam Beek, Chief Product Officer at Veed, to explore the evolving landscape of video content creation in the age of AI. From humble beginnings hacking together apps at tech events to scaling a global video platform, Sam shares his journey and the pivotal role of customer feedback in building user-centric products.

Sam and Jochem delve into how enterprises and solo creators can harness the power of video, why storytelling still reigns supreme, and how Veed's SEO-led growth strategy fuels innovation. They explore AI's role in making video creation more accessible and personalized, the shift from polished to authentic content, and how internal cultural change can help enterprises embrace the creator economy.

Guest Bio

Samuel Beek is the Chief Product Officer at Veed.io, a fast-growing video creation platform. With a background in engineering and product development, Sam has a track record of building tools that make storytelling simpler for creators and marketers alike. A Reforge alum with expertise in user research and growth, he’s passionate about solving real problems through intuitive design and continuous customer engagement. At Veed, he’s leading the charge in AI-driven video innovation, SEO-led growth, and accessible video tools for everyone - from solo creators to enterprise teams.

Takeaways

• Great product design starts with deep user empathy and regular customer conversations.
• Internal systems like user interviews, Slack snippet sharing, and company-wide customer Q&As ensure customer voices shape product direction.
• Balancing AI innovation with fixing foundational UX is critical, sometimes a logo misalignment trumps flashy new features.
• SEO is a growth engine at Veed, driven by the philosophy: "Make something people search for."
• With nearly 450,000 landing pages, Veed meets users where they are with tools tailored to hyper-specific needs.
• Storytelling and fun are key to adoption, people engage with tools that are enjoyable and help them express themselves.
• AI tools should enhance storytelling rather than replace human creativity.
• Enterprises must evolve: authentic, conversational video content trumps over-produced, generic messaging.
• There’s growing pressure for businesses to “put a face” on their brand and humanize customer relationships.
• Starting small, using props (like Lego figures on your webcam), or voiceover-only content helps overcome video anxiety.
• The best creators iterate: aim for a “video 4 out of 10” to start and improve over time.
• Emerging video trends: hyper-personalized content, AI-assisted storytelling, and a shift toward more human, lower-fidelity formats.

Chapters

00:00 Intro to Sam Beek, CPO at Veed

01:55 Sam and Jochem’s early days building products

04:52 Why customer conversations shape product vision

07:12 Digital product research and building insight systems

10:13 Making customer feedback visible to teams

12:27 A UX failure story and what it taught Sam

14:48 Balancing AI innovation with UX basics

16:55 Revenue vs. engagement as product metrics

18:23 Veed's SEO strategy: 450k+ landing pages

21:45 LLMs and changing search behavior

23:37 Innovating for people, not just AI trends

25:55 From toys to scalable storytelling features

27:55 Why fun matters in product adoption

29:16 What enterprise teams need to learn from creators

32:10 Humanizing the enterprise through video

34:10 Brands nailing video content: Duolingo and OpenAI

36:29 Getting past corporate comms blockers

39:25 Where content creation is going

42:15 Helping people become better storytellers

47:58 The magic wand: removing the fear to create

50:37 Tactics for overcoming video creation anxiety

53:42 Final thoughts and where to follow Sam

LinkedIn

Follow Samuel Beek on LinkedIn

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn

Samuel on Twitter screen_name=SAMUELBEEK

Samuel on his website

Do you really need to “break the silos” to fix customer experience?

In this video, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) unpacks why that common advice is flawed - and shares Alison Landers’ (Chief Experience Officer at UBS) smarter approach: it’s not about breaking silos, it’s about orchestrating across them.

Drawing on Alison’s experience leading CX at UBS, Wells Fargo, and Prudential, this episode reveals how journey orchestration helps organizations coordinate at scale and finally deliver seamless experiences customers actually feel.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why silos aren’t the enemy — and why orchestration is the smarter goal

• How customer experience cuts across channels, products, and divisions by design

• Why lack of coordination leads to disconnected journeys customers notice instantly

• The three pillars of Journey Orchestration

• How naming journey owners and building cross-functional alignment unlocks value

• Lessons from UBS, Wells Fargo, and Prudential on scaling CX transformation

Check out the full podcast episode with Alison Landers here.

Join the conversation:

What’s one experience in your company that’s broken because no one owns the “in between”?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn

Explore Journey Management with TheyDo:

#CustomerExperience #JourneyOrchestration #CXStrategy #BusinessSilos #TheyDo #CustomerJourney #CXLeadership #CrossFunctional #DigitalTransformation

In this episode, Jochem van der Veer sits down with Trish Wethman, former Chief Customer Officer at Best Egg, to explore the evolution of the CX function and how to embed customer intelligence into business operations. Trish shares lessons from her tenure in creating impactful customer strategies and championing cultural transformation through CX. From navigating tough executive meetings to redesigning the CX function for action, Trish offers a candid look at what it takes to align organizations around a shared customer vision.

The conversation covers everything from embedding insights partners into business teams, building a sticky CX vision, and redefining ROI in customer experience, to the future of AI in transforming journey mapping and decision-making. This episode is an essential listen for CX leaders looking to elevate their function from data collection to business impact.

Guest Bio

Trish Wethman is a seasoned customer experience executive and the former Chief Customer Officer at Best Egg. With a background in driving customer-centric transformation, Trish has built high-performing CX teams that align business objectives with customer needs. Known for pioneering insights-driven partnerships and shaping cohesive experience visions, her work has helped enterprises navigate complexity and deliver measurable outcomes. Trish also contributes to the Mid-Atlantic CX Forum, where she continues to champion the role of CX in modern business strategy.

Takeaways

• CX leaders must connect metrics to business impact, not just report on data.
• A CX vision only sticks if it’s co-created with business leaders who feel accountable.
• Embedding insights business partners into product and marketing teams improves prioritization and advocacy.
• Aligning customer journeys to acquisition, conversion, and servicing metrics creates business relevance.
• Distinguishing between process maps and true journey maps is critical for actionable insights.
• Micro-journeys should be owned by the teams closest to them, while the CCO oversees end-to-end cohesion.
• CX principles like “flexibility” work best when they’re deeply rooted in customer research and relevant across departments.
• Weekly business reviews are powerful tools for prioritization across CX, product, and marketing.
• ROI can be demonstrated through lift in conversion, risk mitigation, and faster decision-making.
• AI should automate insight generation and journey mapping, enabling CX teams to focus on driving action.
• Future CX functions will require more consultative and alignment-oriented roles.
• Service design, AI operations, and customer data orchestration will be foundational to next-gen CX.

Chapters

00:00 Guest introduction and setting the stage

01:00 CX storytelling failure: translating insights to business value

05:00 Building integrated CX teams that understand business metrics

08:00 Creating the role of insights business partners

11:00 The role of a CX vision and stakeholder collaboration

15:00 Aligning CX to acquisition, conversion, and retention

19:00 Journey mapping beyond the surface level

22:00 Ownership of end-to-end vs. micro-journeys

24:00 Weekly business reviews and their impact

28:00 ROI examples from marketing and innovation support

31:00 CX as an alignment function across silos

33:00 CX principles: flexibility as a customer value driver

35:00 AI’s transformative role in CX workflows

40:00 AI-first CX operating model: what stays human?

44:00 Shifting skillsets: from analysts to consultative partners

47:00 Rethinking surveys and AI-enabled research

50:00 CX engineering: building intelligent customer systems

52:00 Quality control, trust, and hallucination risks in AI

53:00 Closing thoughts and where to find Trish online

LinkedIn

Follow Trish Wethman on LinkedIn

Follow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn

As Promised you can find Trish Wethman on The Mid-Atlantic CX Forum "Where CX and IT Meet"

Why do CX efforts fail - even when everyone’s working hard?

You’ve got the tools, the talent, and the intent. But customer pain persists. In this video, Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo CEO) reveals the real reason most customer experience initiatives don’t deliver results.

It’s not broken UX.

It’s not bad support.

It’s structural misalignment - and it’s costing you more than you realize.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why silos aren't the enemy - and why “breaking them” is the wrong goal

• The 4 hidden costs of poor cross-functional coordination:

• How journey-centric orchestration helps teams work smarter, not harder

• Real-world lessons from companies like Lufthansa on aligning product, UX, and service

• Why journey management beats cosmetic fixes like NPS and UI tweaks

Join the conversation:

Where are your teams misaligned - and what would it take to fix it?

Follow Jochem on LinkedIn

Explore Journey Management with TheyDo

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #TheyDo #BusinessSilos #CXLeadership #DigitalStrategy #CrossFunctional #CustomerJourney #CXFailure #OrchestrationNotDestruction

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer welcomes Brooke Sellas, CEO of B Squared Media, to dissect how social media has evolved from a content distribution channel to a powerful platform for customer experience and intelligence. Brooke explains how forward-thinking brands are using social not just to post, but to converse, and how these conversations can reveal vital insights into customer behavior, brand sentiment, and even revenue potential.

Brooke introduces her CARE framework (Conversation, Acquisition, Retention, Engagement) and explains how her agency uses this model to help enterprise brands mine social interactions for voice-of-customer data. With examples from clients like printer and appliance brands, she reveals how conversational data, social listening, and AI integration can drive measurable business outcomes, from reducing churn to increasing sales. This episode is a masterclass in turning social media into a revenue engine and customer intelligence hub.

Guest Bio

Brooke Sellas is shaping the future of digital marketing one conversation at a time. As an award-winning CEO, she leads B Squared Media, the premier agency redefining 'social care' for brands like Brother International, Miele, and BCU. You can dive into her insights through her book Conversations That Connect, her thought leadership on CMSWire, or her expert-led courses, among them, three digital marketing courses at the University of California, Irvine (one focused on AI & Marketing) and a LinkedIn Learning course on Social Care.

Takeaways

• Social media has evolved from content broadcasting to customer conversation and care.
• The CARE framework, Conversation, Acquisition, Retention, Engagement, drives measurable business results.
• Social listening tools help brands proactively identify trends, crises, and customer intent signals.
• Acquisition conversations on social media are often underestimated; many brands find >20% of social interactions are sales-related.
• Responding to positive comments increases brand affinity and fuels word-of-mouth marketing.
• 76% of customers who don’t receive a reply on social will consider switching to a competitor.
• AI enhances scalability but must be paired with human judgment to avoid PR mishaps.
• Gen Z shoppers value brand-customer conversations more than online reviews.
• “Channel of choice” is essential: CX insights differ across email, phone, and social.
• AI can analyze conversational data to reveal which messages and offers close more deals.
• A single customer service issue, like a confusing coffee machine manual, can cause widespread sentiment drops unless proactively resolved.
• Social selling is not just a buzzword; it requires structured processes and attribution clarity.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Brooke Sellas

01:00 Why social media has shifted from content to conversation

03:00 Who should own social media in an enterprise?

04:30 Brands leading in conversational social media

07:00 The CARE framework explained

10:00 Using VOC to find acquisition and retention signals

14:00 Proving ROI and prioritizing efforts

18:30 Scaling with AI and human oversight

25:30 Best practices in social listening and VOC integration

30:00 Segmenting by channel and generation

34:00 Case study: Fixing a product sentiment issue

41:00 Identifying channel of choice for CX alignment

46:00 Attribution tension between marketing and social care

50:00 Events that trigger companies to invest in social care

55:00 Sprout Social stat: 76% switch brands after no reply

LinkedIn

Follow Brooke Sellas on LinkedInFollow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn

Brooke's Web Links

https://bsquared.media/

https://bsquared.media/conversations-that-connect-book/

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Jennifer Jenkins, Head of CX Design at Scotiabank. Jennifer shares her deep expertise in service and systems thinking, offering a fresh lens on organizational silos, cross-functional collaboration, and the evolving practice of journey management. With roots in workplace design and a strong belief in in-situ research, she provides a unique perspective on how to elevate both customer and employee experiences.

The conversation delves into topics such as rethinking silos as structures, aligning organizational design with customer experience, the necessity of qualitative research in a digital world, and designing with sustainability in mind. Jennifer advocates for systems that are not only more efficient but more human, urging companies to expand their awareness, reframe assumptions, and design responsibly for scale.

Guest Bio

Jennifer Jenkins is the Head of CX Design at Scotiabank, where she leads strategy and design across complex systems in a large, legacy financial organization. With a background spanning service design, workplace strategy, and systems thinking, Jennifer brings a multidisciplinary approach to shaping impactful customer experiences. She is particularly known for championing cross-functional pods, emphasizing qualitative research, and promoting sustainable design choices in digital contexts.

Takeaways

• Silos can be reframed as necessary structures; the goal is to connect them, not eliminate them.
• Service design often breaks down when organizational design doesn't align with the intended customer experience.
• Journey pods at Scotiabank are cross-functional, aligning CX strategy with product development early in the process.
• Pods engage in both qualitative and quantitative research, using methods from anthropology to unmoderated online testing.
• Trust within an organization reflects externally: high employee trust correlates with high customer trust.
• Designing journeys as nonlinear, multidirectional experiences is more accurate than traditional linear models.
• Qualitative, in-situ research captures insights missed in digital-only environments - context truly matters.
• Journey-centric org models must remain hybrid to account for structural and process realities.
• Designing for sustainability includes decisions like avoiding unnecessary animations or heavy media.
• Employees often lack the tools and knowledge to act sustainably - education and awareness are key.
• Sustainability in digital design must consider both content and energy use, and requires collaboration with engineering.
• Small design decisions, when scaled across millions of users, can have a massive environmental impact.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and welcome

01:12 Jennifer Jenkins’ background and role at Scotiabank

02:00 Rethinking organizational silos

04:00 Why silos persist in legacy organizations

09:00 Aligning org structure with service delivery

10:00 Designing effective journey pods

13:00 Balancing quant and qual in CX research

14:00 Making CX insights actionable

16:30 Nonlinear journey design and its challenges

21:00 Viability of journey-centric org design

23:00 The overlooked role of employee experience

27:00 Measuring intangible experiences

29:00 The value of in-situ research

32:00 AI's limitations in understanding human nuance

35:00 Real-world insights from observational research

38:00 Journey friction and user trust

39:00 Designing CX with sustainability in mind

44:00 Empowering teams with knowledge and skills

48:00 Closing thoughts and where to find Jennifer

LinkedIn

Follow Jennifer Jenkins on LinkedIn

Follow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jon Picoult, author of the bestselling book From Impressed to Obsessed, shares his insights on crafting unforgettable customer experiences.

With over 16 years of consulting C-suite executives through his firm, Watermark Consulting, Jon emphasizes why mere customer satisfaction is a weak benchmark - and why companies must instead strive to create indelible impressions. He explains how impressing customers builds loyalty that drives referrals, repurchase behavior, and ultimately, business growth.

Jon and host Jochem van der Veer dive into how businesses can use psychological principles like the peak-end rule and the perception of control to design memorable episodes across the customer journey. They explore how to evaluate when the basics are truly being met, how to socialize CX insights throughout the organization, and how to build a financial business case for customer experience investment. It’s a strategic conversation that blends theory with actionable advice for CX leaders and executives alike.

Guest Bio

Jon Picoult is the founder of Watermark Consulting and the author of the bestselling book From Impressed to Obsessed. A renowned thought leader in customer experience and leadership, Jon has been featured by outlets such as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, NBC News, Fortune, and Forbes. Over his 16-year consultancy career, he has advised some of the world’s foremost brands, helping them leverage customer and employee loyalty for marketplace advantage.

Takeaways

• Satisfaction is not enough - impressed customers drive growth and retention.
• Memory science is key to experience design: aim for peak moments and strong endings.
• Honoring small promises, like follow-up calls, can create powerful impressions.
• CX leaders must master both fundamentals and differentiators - don’t skip the basics.
• Executive teams need to experience their own service firsthand to drive empathy and change.
• Journey mapping is a starting point, not the end game; deep analysis reveals hidden friction.
• Artifacts like confusing bills or broken IVRs make CX challenges tangible to leadership.
• Giving customers a sense of control (e.g., clear expectations) improves their perception.
• Great CX also benefits employees - simplify internal tools to improve delivery.
• Reducing contacts through better communication cuts costs and boosts efficiency.
• CX ROI isn’t always about revenue - start with measurable cost savings.
• When selecting a consultancy, know exactly who will be on your account.

Chapters

00:00 Satisfaction is mediocrity

01:42 Why satisfaction fails to ensure loyalty

03:22 Impressive CX doesn’t require high spend

05:36 Meeting baseline expectations can wow

07:08 Balancing fundamentals and delight

09:21 How to assess readiness for delight

11:59 Executives stepping into customer shoes

14:43 Case example of broken IVR experience

17:14 Socializing CX reality throughout the org

20:10 Defining “what right looks like” in CX

22:46 Journey mapping is a beginning, not the end

24:46 Making CX real with artifacts

28:41 Episodes and peak-end design

32:16 Ending on a high note in every episode

38:20 Perception of control as a CX principle

46:00 How to quantify CX ROI

52:00 Focus first on expense impact

58:00 Where to start building CX business cases

62:00 Choosing the right CX consultancy

LinkedIn

Follow ⁠⁠Jon Picoult⁠⁠ on LinkedIn

Follow ⁠⁠Jochem⁠⁠ on LinkedIn

Links to more

Learn more about Jon and his company, Watermark Consulting.

Read Watermark’s Customer Experience ROI Study.

Learn more about Jon’s book, FROM IMPRESSED TO OBSESSED:  12 Principles For Turning Customers And Employees Into Lifelong Fans.