The Experience Edge

Sam Stern, Service Design Lead at LinkedIn and longtime CX thinker, joins TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer to explore how journeys, data, and behavioral science shape memorable experiences. With a background spanning Forrester, New Balance, and his own CX Patterns podcast, Sam reveals why perfection is overrated and why some friction, when engineered well, can actually deepen customer value.

They dig into good friction, employee experience design, cross-silo collaboration, and how AI is reshaping research workflows. Sam challenges long held CX doctrines, offering a fresh lens on how to create experiences that customers remember and teams can deliver with confidence.

Guest Bio

Sam Stern is the Service Design Lead at LinkedIn, where he focuses on improving the employee and customer facing experiences that power the platform’s global ecosystem. Before LinkedIn, Sam spent nearly 16 years as a Principal Analyst at Forrester, shaping industry thinking on customer experience. He has also led CX at New Balance and is the creator of the CX Patterns podcast and newsletter. Sam is known for blending behavioral science, service design, and practical business insight to help organizations craft experiences that matter.

Key Takeaways

• Good friction can enhance memorability when intentionally designed, contrasted with the CX habit of removing all friction.
• Behavioral science principles like anticipation, contrast, and peak moments remain underused in customer experience design.
• Service design at LinkedIn prioritizes improving the employee experience for 12,000+ customer facing roles to strengthen customer outcomes.
• Journey readouts become dramatically more effective when grounded in video evidence from real users.
• AI accelerates research workflows but amplifies, rather than replaces, human judgment and context setting.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Sam Stern

02:00 Why another CX book

05:00 The concept of good friction

08:30 When friction helps and when it harms

12:00 Ethical considerations in engineered friction

16:00 How service design operates inside LinkedIn

21:00 Secrets to effective journey readouts

24:00 Helping product teams see beyond their scope

26:45 How prioritization works across product and CX

29:00 Journey atlas and cross org context

32:00 Blending CX, UX, and service design roles

35:00 Business impact and full stack builder

39:00 AI’s role in research and insight development

43:00 Can AI ever understand context

49:00 The future of service design and CX

58:00 Why silos aren’t going away

59:00 Where to find Sam

LinkedIn

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After more than 20 years at Philips, Tina Lilje knows what it takes to make customer experience more than a metric. As former Global Head of Customer Experience, she built a CX strategy across 100+ countries and 75,000 employees—connecting the dots between service, design, and leadership.

In this episode, Tina and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how healthcare is embracing AI without losing its human touch. From fixing design flaws that cost millions to turning executives into customer sponsors, Tina shares why the most successful CX strategies start with root causes, not dashboards—and why humans will always be healthcare’s most valuable premium.

Guest Bio

Tina Lilje is the former Global Head of Customer Experience at Philips, where she led the company’s global CX transformation across healthcare and B2B markets. Over two decades, she moved from marketing and M&A to executive CX leadership, designing a customer-first strategy spanning more than 100 countries. Known for operationalizing CX and aligning global teams around root-cause improvement, Tina now advises organizations on embedding customer-centric thinking that actually sticks.

Key Takeaways

• Fix root causes, not symptoms: Sustainable CX impact comes from addressing systemic design flaws, not surface-level issues.
• AI in healthcare needs humans: Technology should enhance, not replace, human care, especially in regulated, high-stakes industries.
• Customer voice is the strongest lever: Bringing real customer stories into leadership discussions drives alignment and urgency.
• KPIs must match behavior: Incentives shape culture, customer goals only work when bonuses, priorities, and structures reinforce them.
• Consistency beats perfection: True CX excellence lies in reliability, authenticity, and operational follow-through.

Episode Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introduction

03:00 Why humans are a premium in healthcare’s AI era

06:00 Balancing innovation with regulation in clinical settings

09:50 How small CX fixes drive major impact

14:30 Discovering the “detector” moment: fixing root causes

18:00 Turning CX from a program into a lasting function

25:00 Finding mentors and building CX leadership credibility

33:00 Creating partnerships, not transactions, with customers

41:00 Why NPS failed and what replaced it

48:20 Embedding CX across functions and KPIs

52:00 Aligning around customer realities, not silos

56:00 Incentives, ownership, and the human factor

01:04:00 When to go “all in” on CX, and when not to

01:06:30 Tina’s next chapter and closing thoughts

LinkedIn Profiles

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Can AI actually help you understand your customers - or is it just noise at scale?

As teams lean into AI to handle discovery work, it’s tempting to treat all insights as equal. But not all research sources are created equal - and AI isn’t great at everything.

In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer breaks down where AI actually supports discovery... and where it silently sabotages it. This is a guide for anyone using AI to scale research, sift through feedback, or make sense of customer data.

What You’ll Learn: • A side-by-side breakdown of 8 key research sources - and where AI helps (or fails) • Why AI performs well on written support data but fails to read tone, sarcasm, or urgency • How AI misses the intent behind interviews - and why that matters for product decisions • The danger of over-trusting CRM notes, sales transcripts, and survey sentiment without context • How to combine AI-assisted insights with human nuance to get to real customer truth

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Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, has transformed how a major healthcare company connects business outcomes to customer experience. With a background spanning customer success, strategy, and design, Dan has built an enterprise-wide journey management practice that brings data, insights, and teams together to act as one.

In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Dan shares how CHG made journey management tangible, through immersive storytelling, data integration, and co-creation across teams. He reveals how to align CX with business strategy, balance customer obsession with outcomes, and create organizational change that lasts beyond the latest initiative.

Guest Bio

Dan Sullivan is the Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, where he leads the development and implementation of a company-wide journey management practice. His work bridges customer insight, product design, and business strategy to drive measurable impact. Prior to CHG, Dan led customer success at TheyDo and held strategic roles across startups and global enterprises. Known for his creative storytelling and systems thinking, he’s helping redefine how large organizations use journey management to become truly customer-led.

Top Takeaways

• Journey management is not about the artifact, it’s about changing how decisions are made across teams.
• Start with awareness, not solutions: make the problem visible before promoting the framework.
• Balance customer and business goals: customer obsession means nothing without measurable impact.
• Immersive storytelling drives adoption: CHG’s “journey museum” helped hundreds of employees walk in their customer’s shoes.
• Keep adapting: journey management is a living system, not a one-time rollout.

Chapters

00:00 Introducing Dan Sullivan and CHG Healthcare

02:12 Why it’s not about the journey itself

04:40 Customer centricity and business alignment

08:46 Balancing customer obsession with business goals

10:28 Finding gaps and building the case for journeys

13:20 Why CHG chose a journey-led approach

16:42 Connecting teams through shared journeys

18:48 Building an immersive journey experience

25:13 The impact of the immersive launch

29:19 From solution awareness to problem awareness

31:37 Making data meaningful, not just measurable

34:43 Using journeys as a decision-making tool

36:30 Keeping journey maps simple but powerful

40:38 Helping experience teams understand business impact

44:12 Organizational changes and long-term shifts

48:33 Embedding journeys into OKRs

52:14 Navigating resistance and scaling adoption

54:30 Governance, ownership, and design systems

58:18 Building ownership across teams

01:00:43 Advice to younger self and closing thoughts

LinkedIn Profiles

Dan Sullivan (CHG Healthcare)

Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo)

Raymond Otero, Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft, bridges customer success and experience to create truly journey-centered transformation. With nearly three decades of experience, Ray’s approach brings operational cohesion, data-driven insights, and a cultural shift that makes customer obsession real inside the enterprise.

In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Ray unpacks how Microsoft is blending CX and CS through journey-based operating models, how AI enables proactive coaching, and why humility and alignment—not hierarchy—drive lasting success.

Guest Bio

Raymond (Ray) Otero is Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft, where he leads strategic programs that connect customer success, experience design, and data insights across the organization. With over 25 years of experience spanning Citrix, Microsoft, and advisory roles with the Customer Success Collective and Influence Board, Ray helps global enterprises shift from reactive account management to proactive, journey-based transformation.

Takeaways

• CX and Customer Success must operate as one journey, not separate functions.
• “Leaning left” means involving success teams early—before the sale—to drive outcomes.
• AI should enhance human connection by removing repetitive tasks and surfacing insights.
• Journey health is the new north star—measuring alignment, not just satisfaction.
• True leadership requires humility, collaboration, and a culture of shared learning.

Chapters

00:00 Meet Raymond Otero, Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft

02:00 Redefining CX and Customer Success at Microsoft

06:00 Why silos hurt the customer journey

10:00 The “lean left” principle and early success engagement

14:00 CX as data, analytics, and rhythm of business

17:00 Journey as the organizational glue

19:00 Turning journeys into joint operating models

27:00 From tactical fixes to strategic programs

31:00 How AI reshapes customer success roles

36:00 Will AI replace CS jobs?

44:00 Building better CX organizations and roles

49:00 Structuring OKRs and aligning CX metrics

55:00 Journey-centered metrics and global alignment

59:00 Creating cultural cohesion and removing silos

01:03:00 Where to find Ray and final reflections

LinkedIn

Raymond Otero

Jochem van der Veer

Websites

microsoft.com (Company)

(Personal)

(Personal)

AI Won’t Fix Broken Customer Understanding

Are you speeding past discovery and straight into irrelevance?

Generative AI has made it easy to ship. Everyone can prototype, design, and launch faster than ever. But faster doesn’t mean better, and skipping discovery is a mistake teams keep making.

In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) challenges the illusion of progress AI creates, and shows why the real return on investment lies in how we use AI for discovery - not delivery.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why skipping discovery leads to false confidence and wasted effort

• The overlooked ROI of AI: freeing time for deeper customer understanding

• How a scratched-up skate shoe saved Lego and what that means for your product strategy

• The limits of AI in research: where human insight still matters most

• A shift in mindset: from shipping more to learning faster

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Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Bruno Monteiro, VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, is driving one of the boldest CX transformations in healthcare - reorganizing the company around customer journeys. Drawing on his time at JPMorgan Chase, where he pioneered the “experience object” strategy, Bruno explains what it takes to turn journey theory into business impact.

In this episode, he and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how to align teams, data, and leadership around outcomes that balance customer intent and business value. The conversation reveals why shared ownership, empathy, and orchestration, not technology alone, power true transformation.

Guest Bio

Bruno Monteiro is VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, where he leads the transformation of web and mobile experiences helping millions of Americans save and invest for health and wealth. Formerly Executive Director and Head of Service Design at JPMorgan Chase, he developed the “experience object” model and the UNDesign framework, applying systems thinking to reimagine how large enterprises align around journeys. Bruno also teaches at the School of Visual Arts and contributes to the Service Design Network.

Takeaways

• Journey management succeeds when accountability, not ownership, drives collaboration.

• Taxonomy and shared language are essential to aligning business and customer outcomes.

• Product owners are evolving into “journey orchestrators” focused on end-to-end experiences.

• Metrics must layer: KPIs + CX scores + UX signals = true visibility.

• AI accelerates discovery but cannot replace empathy or human insight.

Chapters

 00:00 Intro and the Trojan Horse at Chase

 03:07 What it means to lead with journeys

 07:33 Jobs to be Done vs. Journeys vs. Experiences

 10:28 Journey architecture and taxonomy

 14:10 Journey ownership and org structure at Chase

 18:18 Accountability and the role of journey owners

 21:34 Balancing business and customer outcomes

 25:50 Coordinating the journey architecture

 28:58 The evolution from product to journey management

 34:33 Designing metrics that resonate with the business

 39:37 Starting small and building behavior change

 42:28 Selecting the first journeys to transform

 43:41 Why NPS isn’t enough

 46:00 Using layered metrics to reveal friction

 50:04 Upskilling product owners for better discovery

 51:40 Structuring research around journeys

 55:27 AI’s limitations in customer empathy

 58:16 Synthetic users and bias in design

 01:02:29 AI can support, but not replace, deep research

 01:05:27 Building empathy through real customer contact

 01:08:16 Final advice and the vision of UNDesign

 01:10:17 Where to find Bruno and follow his work

LinkedIn

Bruno Monteiro:   LINKEDIN

Jochem van der Veer: LINKEDIN

KEYWORDS:  #CustomerExperienceDesign #JourneyBasedTransformation #DigitalExperienceLeadership #CXMetricsAndKPIs #ProductToJourneyShift #HealthcareCX #FinancialServicesCX #ExperienceArchitecture #CustomerIntentData #OrchestratedCustomerJourneys #DesignForOutcomes #UNDesignFramework #AIInCX #EmpathyDrivenDesign #ServiceDesignLeadership #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #DigitalTransformation #ProductToJourney #ServiceDesign #CustomerEmpathy #SystemsThinking #EndToEndDesign #ExperienceBlueprinting #CXLeadership #JobsToBeDone #CustomerIntent #CXMetrics #AIAndCX #UNDesignMindset #CX #Journeys #Design #Empathy #AI #Leadership #Data #Strategy #Systems #Innovation #Metrics #Blueprints #Outcomes #Ownership #Discovery

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Bruno Monteiro, VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, about what it truly takes to transform large organizations around customer journeys. From implementing journey management at JP Morgan Chase as a "Trojan horse" strategy to now leading an experience-centered transformation in healthcare, Bruno offers sharp, practical insights into how CX leaders can move from theory to enterprise-wide practice.

Bruno unpacks the challenges of scaling journey ownership, balancing business metrics with customer intent, and creating visibility through journey architectures. He dives into the need for shared accountability, behavior change, and empathy-building through real customer insights, beyond the limitations of synthetic data and dashboards. For anyone driving or scaling journey-based transformation, this episode is a masterclass.

Guest Bio

Bruno Monteiro is the Vice President and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, where he leads digital transformation across web and mobile platforms to help millions of Americans manage their health and wealth. Previously, he was Executive Director and Head of Service Design at JP Morgan Chase, where he pioneered journey-based transformation using the "Experience Object Strategy." He is the creator of UNDesign, a mindset and methodology to dismantle legacy systems and drive systemic change. Bruno also teaches at SVA’s MFA in Design for Social Innovation and is a contributor to the Service Design Network.

Takeaways

• Journey Management Requires Real Accountability: Journey owners must have end-to-end decision-making power, not just titles.
• Balance Customer and Business Outcomes: True impact comes from aligning customer needs with measurable business value.
• Taxonomy is Foundational: Organizations need a shared language around journeys, jobs to be done, and experiences.
• Start Small, Then Scale: Begin with high-friction, high-volume journeys to prove value and gain traction.
• Design for Alignment, Not Just Execution: Orchestrating roadmaps across multiple teams and OKRs is key.
• NPS Isn’t Enough: It's useful for stakeholder buy-in, but real transformation needs layered metrics and operational data.
• Blueprinting Should Include System Decisions: “Service archaeology” reveals legacy constraints that block innovation.
• Don’t Just Show the Journey, Make It the Source of Truth: Create accessible, dynamic journey architecture systems.
• AI Has Limits in Empathy and Intent: Human insight is still essential for identifying emotional and contextual signals.

• Product Owners Must Evolve: The journey owner role is the next step in aligning teams around end-to-end outcomes.
• UNDesign Is About Dismantling to Rebuild: Bruno’s methodology encourages questioning, unlearning, and system transformation.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and the Trojan Horse at Chase

03:07 What it means to lead with journeys

07:33 Jobs to be Done vs. Journeys vs. Experiences

10:28 Journey architecture and taxonomy

14:10 Journey ownership and org structure at Chase

18:18 Accountability and the role of journey owners

21:34 Balancing business and customer outcomes

25:50 Coordinating the journey architecture

28:58 The evolution from product to journey management

34:33 Designing metrics that resonate with the business

39:37 Starting small and building behavior change

42:28 Selecting the first journeys to transform

43:41 Why NPS isn’t enough

46:00 Using layered metrics to reveal friction

50:04 Upskilling product owners for better discovery

51:40 Structuring research around journeys

55:27 AI’s limitations in customer empathy

58:16 Synthetic users and bias in design

01:02:29 AI can support, but not replace, deep research

01:05:27 Building empathy through real customer contact

01:08:16 Final advice and the vision of UNDesign

01:10:17 Where to find Bruno and follow his work

LinkedIn

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Governance Models Every CX Leader Should Know

One global staffing firm discovered they were solving the same customer problem six different ways across regions. No alignment, duplicated work, eroded trust - not a tooling issue, but a governance issue.

In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) shares what he’s learned about how to structure journey management from working with 50-60 Fortune 500 companies.

He breaks down four real-world journey governance models - from Central Command to Full Autonomy - and explains the pros, cons, and trade-offs of each. You’ll hear how organizations move from chaos to coordination, and why your journey operating model is your real CX “operating system.”

You’ll learn how to scale journey management without bottlenecks, and why your governance model is the hidden lever behind customer-centric growth.

Key Insights

• Why CX transformation often stalls due to operating model failure, not tools
• The four governance models for journey management: Orchestrated, Hub & Spoke, Federated Excellence, and Full Autonomy
• How to decide who owns journeys, who governs frameworks, and who decides standards
• How distributed ownership can speed up delivery 50–60% while still keeping alignment
• Why your journey framework should work like a shared data warehouse - one truth, many tailored views

Subscribe to The Experience Edge for more on journey management, CX strategy, and the future of customer-centric organizations. Like, comment, and share this episode with your team if you’re wrestling with silos or fragmented journeys.

#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CXLeadership #DigitalTransformation #BreakingSilos #CustomerCentricity #ExperienceEdge

If you can’t map customer experience to a business metric your CFO already obsesses over, you’re playing the wrong game.”

That’s how Bill Staikos - former Global Head of Experience at BNY Mellon and CX leader at American Express, JP Morgan, and Freddie Mac - describes the future of customer experience.

In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo) reflects on his recent podcast episode with Bill, unpacks what it really means to tie customer outcomes to business results, and why most CX teams are still speaking the wrong language.

What You’ll Learn

How to connect CX metrics to growth, risk, and operating leverage, the language of the C‑suite

• Why delight and NPS aren’t enough to earn credibility
• A 3‑step shift to translate customer outcomes into business impact
• How to earn a seat at the table by proving measurable ROI from experience work

Watch next: Bill’s full conversation on The Experience Edge podcast (link below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9107GkJD4g

Subscribe for more on journey management, CX strategy, and operationalizing customer‑centricity at scale.

Like, comment, and share with your team if you’re ready to move from dashboards to boardrooms.

#CustomerExperience #CXLeadership #CustomerCentricity #BusinessImpact #JourneyManagement #ExperienceEdge #BNYMellon #CFO #CXStrategy