The Firehouse Salon

This time a conversation with Nicholas DeMille on the “engineering/architecture” of narrative. 

We discussed salons and coffee houses as “social technologies” that emerge across history after technological shifts, and how social engineering (temperance/prohibition) and PR (Bernays using Freud) show the dangers of manipulation. 

We explored AI as a sparring partner that accelerates thinking but can crowd out the slower creative process, contrasting dictation, notebooks, and writing by hand with AI-generated drafts that feel sanitised.

We argued that human creativity involves exchange, lived experience, discretion, curiosity, and word-of-mouth trust, while AI boosts derivative output, discovery, and playful creativity for non-experts, yet risks noise, job losses, and reduced learning and curiosity.

00:00 Welcome to the Salon

01:15 Salons as Social Tech

02:05 Social Engineering Cautionary Tales

04:47 AI and Creative Space

07:11 Writing by Hand Flow

09:59 Mean Creativity and Jobs

13:42 Human Voice and Culture

16:13 Discretion Over Efficiency

18:06 Creative Constraint and Notebooks

20:58 Tech Panic and Perspective

24:28 Learning and Human Connections

32:24 Discovery and Word of Mouth

38:44 Kids Curiosity and Education

42:17 Find Your Verse

I was interested in what was going on with Openclaw and heard that Lan Wei, a PHD at MBZUAI had won a hackathon experimenting with the edges of a new technology. Turns out her keen interest is the intersection between AI and storytelling. 

We talked about the reasoning behind creative choices and explored the idea of chaos in agentic systems ad their iteraction with humans creatively. 

We debated whether taste can be educated, examined the value of inefficiency and what makes life worth living.

I came to Eduardo's office expecting to talk about cells and data. What I found on his wall were the illustrations of Ernst Haeckel, a 19th-century German naturalist whose drawings of jellyfish, radiolaria and embryos were so beautiful they shaped how an entire generation understood life on earth. That felt like the right place to start.

What followed was one of the more honest conversations I've had about AI. Eduardo's argument isn't complicated: the only thing AI won't do for you is think. Everything reducible to a recipe, a template, a repeatable process, it will handle. What remains is the part that actually matters.

We ended up talking about struggle as the engine of learning, about what education might look like when you can no longer mistake output for understanding.

I left thinking we are measuring ourselves against the wrong things, and that AI, strangely, might be the thing that forces us to stop.

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro
01:19 Ernst Haeckel Art Science
03:29 Accuracy Versus Emotion
05:23 Beauty in Science
06:47 Visualizing Molecular Data
09:01 AI and Creative Fear
13:10 Livelihood Versus Transcendence
15:15 AI Forces Education Rethink
23:15 Struggle and Learning
29:07 Craft Art and Creativity
34:24 Slow Down for Depth
36:00 Elegant Output Conclusion

Drawing on a 1960s speech by Howard Luck Gossage that contrasts money-driven business builders who want repeatable formulas with creative people who become more exploratory and less controllable as they earn more.

Ashley, our host, connects this to curiosity as a driver of ideas, citing Stephen Johnson on creativity and Charles Babbage, and argues that in an AI era, adaptability, resilience, and curiosity matter.

00:00 Mountain Intro and Updates
00:40 Season Topics Teaser
02:26 Howard on Money vs Tedium
06:31 Rubenstein Chopsticks Analogy
08:47 Curiosity as Creative Fuel
10:31 Skills and Knowledge in an AI Age

After a five-month hiatus and a move to Abu Dhabi to take up the role of Head of Creative at the AI university MBZUAI, I've finally worked out why I got stuck with the Salon, and what it should become.

A conversation with Richard Tseng reframed Gossage's relevance for me. He drew a connection between the post-war age of propaganda, when Howard fell into advertising as a new medium, and the birth of technologies like the Gutenberg press, where early mass production eventually gives way to something more transformative and human.

We are at a similar inflection point: audiences will grow jaded by mass-produced, uncanny content, and creators will be pushed back toward compelling storytelling and genuinely novel experiences. AI and capitalism will threaten many creative roles. But I remain an optimist.

Which is why I'm repositioning the Salon around the conversations I find most alive right now: curious, tediophobic people finding ways to make a positive creative dent in the world.

00:00 Back After Hiatus
00:46 Richard Sparks A Breakthrough
02:08 Advertising As Propaganda
02:54 Gossage And New Media
04:19 AI Echoes The Revolution
05:50 Why Howard Matters Now
07:49 Threats To Everyday Creatives
09:33 The New Firehouse Mission

After years in Ibiza moving to Head of Creative at the AI university in Abu Dhabi brings unexpected challenges. This episode explores trying to spark creative thinking in an institution that doesn't quite know what to do with you.

We talked about building a library of influences, finding creative allies in new environments, and how to make the most of small pockets of possibility.

Plus: news about our BBC Radio 4 documentary on Iris Barry – the First Lady of Film

00:00 Starting a New Adventure
01:04 Introducing The Firehouse Salon
01:19 Challenges and Changes
02:19 Building a Creative Culture
03:01 Exploring Creativity and Influences
03:33 The Reality of Creative Leadership
04:18 Building Islands of Creativity
07:44 Shifting Perspectives and Strategies
14:49 New Show for the BBC
16:14 Iris Barry: The First Lady of Film
18:21 Commitment to the Podcast

After 2 years on BBC sounds the link to our radio show is no longer working... so... the opportunity to share it with you here. One of the advantages is the opportunity to share with you a new 'director's cut' - a little shorter, and some additional elements we decided to put in. Enjoy!

Back with the next episode after a summer break.

Ash & James

In this episode of Firehouse Salon Live, we discussed creativity and the process behind it with our guests:

Filmmaker Philip Rachid - https://www.linkedin.com/in/philiprachid/

and Designer Dave Officer - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-officer/

We talked about the balance between spontaneity and structured creativity, the role of AI in the creative process, and the importance of producing authentic human ideas (even with AI). We touched on the significance of cultural sensitivity in marketing and design, the challenges and joys of working with clients, and the necessity of pursuing personal creative projects to stay inspired. 

01:19 Exploring the Creative Process
02:02 The Role of Spontaneity in Creativity
02:45 The Mystery and Charm of Creativity
06:28 AI and Creativity: A Double-Edged Sword
07:48 The Human Touch in Creative Work
10:16 Constraints and Creativity
18:51 Client Collaboration and Creative Freedom
32:59 Navigating Client Challenges and Design Thinking
34:28 Trust and Adaptability in Creative Projects
38:31 The Impact of Visual Identities and Branding
41:05 The Role of Storytelling in Design
42:48 Iterative Processes and Creative Freedom
49:59 Balancing Client Work and Personal Projects
56:09 Cultural Sensitivity and Global Collaboration

Links we discussed

Companies/Organisations

Hey Human - Neil Davidson's company - https://heyhuman.com/

Madar 39 - Culture innovation space in Abu Dhabi - https://www.m39.ae/

Story Things - Team mentioned for prototyping approach - https://storythings.com/

Pixar - Referenced for "Brain Trust" collaborative approach - https://www.pixar.com/

Creative Methodologies

Design Thinking - Double diamond methodology - https://www.thefountaininstitute.com/blog/what-is-the-double-diamond-design-process

Parkinson's Law - "Work expands to fill the time available for its completion" - https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-parkinsons-law-6674423

Brain Trust - Pixar concept - https://medium.com/great-business-stories/lessons-from-pixar-1-the-braintrust-e306843a5153

Films & Media

"28 Years Later" - Film shot entirely on iPhone - https://www.motionpictures.org/2025/06/how-28-years-later-dp-anthony-dod-mantle-turned-20-iphones-and-a-custom-rig-into-danny-boyles-epic-vision/

"Tangerine" - Film shot on iPhone - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQj1Ie0ip38

"Andor" (Disney series) - Just fantastic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duN-KQgOjYs

Private Eye Magazine - Small ads with personality - https://www.eyeads.co.uk/

Quote

“The audience comes last. I believe that. I'm not making it for them. I'm making it for me. And it turns out that when you make something truly for yourself, you're doing the best thing you possibly can for the audience.” — Rick Rubin

In this episode, we dive into the legacy of Howard Luck Gossage and explore creativity, environment, and unconventional thinking. 

Guests:
Ali Grant - Designer and inventor of the Halo -  https://www.instagram.com/halosoundsystems/
John Kieselhorst - Co-Creative Director of Geezer Creative - https://www.geezercreative.com/

Ali discusses his pioneering work with Halo Sound Systems and his focus on creating immersive, respectful sound experiences in nature. 

John explores the overlooked potential of the over-fifty demographics & creatives in advertising and the significance of purpose-driven creativity. 

We talked about the historical and cultural parallels between the 1960s and today, touching on the transformative periods, sound healing, and the influence of mindfulness and nature on creative processes.

01:06 Introduction to the Salon

01:21 Discussing 99 Non Zebras and Creativity

02:01 Meet the Guests

02:20 Ali Grant on Halo Sound Systems

02:40 John on Geezer and Age in Advertising

05:47 The Role of AI in Creativity

07:26 Ali Grant on Music and Community

10:02 John  on Marketing to Older Audiences

16:08 The Power of Music and Shared Experiences

25:47 Exploring Consciousness and Psychedelics

27:51 Inspiration from Buckminster Fuller and Hacken Bay

32:22 Reflecting on Historic Times

33:53 Impact of the Pandemic

35:35 Personal and Professional Shifts

36:45 Environmental Observations

37:23 Cultural and Political Consequences

49:46 Creative Processes and Mindfulness

54:37 The Role of Environment in Creativity

Mentions this time:

Books

• "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" by Buckminster Fuller - Referenced by Ali Grant
• "The Incal" by Alejandro Jodorowsky and Moebius - Graphic novel mentioned by John about inducing theta states
• "Mood Mapping" by Dr. Liz Miller - Book about neuroscience and bipolar disorder

Companies/Organisations

• Halo Sound Systems - Ali Grant's startup for sound cancellation technology
• Geezer - John Kemo's startup agency targeting 50+ demographics
• Temporary Autonomous Art Exhibitions - Art collective inspired by Hakim Bey's concept
• Walker Art Center - Museum that held Buckminster Fuller retrospective

Films & Media

• "Jodorowsky's Dune" - Documentary about the unmade film adaptation

The Firehouse Salon: Exploring Creativity and Environment

In this episode of the Firehouse Salon, hosts James and Ashley delve into the 1960s world of Howard Luck Gossage's and his work environment at his firehouse ad agency. 

We talked about the impact of physical, interpersonal, and psychological environments on creativity. We explored the balance between freedom and constraint, and how different settings can either nurture or hinder innovative thinking. We discussed the importance of creating spaces that foster collaboration, and the unexpected ways in which creativity can arise from both structured and chaotic environments.

01:16 Exploring the Concept of Environment and Creativity
01:55 The Physical, Interpersonal, and Psychological Environments
02:58 Howard Gossage's Unique Work Environment
05:04 Balancing Solitude and Collaboration
06:41 The Role of Constraints in Creativity
23:04 Corporate Environments and Creative Rebellion
30:08 Final Thoughts on Creativity and Environment