The Foreign Area Officer Podcast

Back on the wire with retired Air Force Lt Col Dr. Brian Hobbs about his career as a Foreign Area Officer and his book, "US Defense Industry Offsets: The Presidential Exception for National Security." Hobbs traces his early exposure to Japan through an AFS high school exchange, Japanese study in college and ROTC, early intel assignments in Korea and Japan, graduate school and DLI language training in Chinese and Korean, teaching roles (including at the Korean Air Force Academy), and later work in SAF/IA implementing a more rigorous Air Force FAO (Regional Affairs Strategist) program amid institutional resistance. Post-retirement, he worked at DSCA, the F-35 program for Japan, and BAE Systems before completing a Virginia Tech PhD. He explains offsets as “side deals” in defense sales, outlines the U.S. hands-off policy with a presidential waiver, and highlights case studies on the UAE, Poland, and India.

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro

01:27 Early Air Force Roots

02:10 Japan Exchange Spark

03:02 College and Language Path

09:16 First Assignments Korea Japan

10:49 Learning Hangul Fast

14:32 Why Korean Feels Hard

16:33 Self Managing Career Moves

24:10 First FAO Role Hawaii

27:51 Building Air Force FAO Program

31:42 Institutional Pushback Stories

37:50 From Intel to FMS Focus

40:14 Teaching and Return to Korea

42:13 DLI Instructor Friction

42:52 Studying Ahead Under Pressure

44:22 Romance Language Advantage

46:15 Testing Out and Institutional Limits

48:21 Kicked Out of Class

51:44 Turning Setback Into Success

54:44 Post Retirement Job Pivot

57:27 F 35 Japan and FMS

01:00:12 Hybrid Programs and Reform

01:06:00 Industry Travel Burnout

01:08:25 PhD Path and GI Bill

01:14:55 Offsets Research Breakthrough

01:21:22 Offsets Explained With Examples

01:25:51 Offsets Gone Weird

01:26:34 FAO Awareness Not Negotiation

01:28:32 Corruption vs Buy American

01:32:23 Why Presidential Approval Exists

01:43:45 How Offsets Get Requested

01:47:59 Where FAOs Fit Today

01:52:50 Offsets and China Competition

01:57:18 Pitfalls and Red Lines

02:04:52 Book Origins and Case Studies

02:09:34 Where to Find the Book

02:11:05 Closing Thanks and Wrap

This is the Man who Would be Khan. 

While a first-year Russian student at West Point, then Major Mark Derber dropped an article from The Atlantic on my desk, Robert D. Kaplan's "The Man Who Would Be Khan". It changed my life. 20 years later, you get to hear my interview with the Man himself.

COL (R) Tom Wilhelm shares his path from West Point (commissioned infantry in 1980) through a dual-track infantry/aviation start, declining the new Aviation Branch, and entering the FAO program in the mid-1980s as a Soviet/Russian FAO. Wilhelm recounts an extensive Cold War-era pipeline (FAO course, DLI Russian—joined fully by his wife—graduate school, a summer in Leningrad, and the US Army Russian Institute/Marshall Center), then FAO work with OSIA conducting arms-control inspections (Vienna Document, INF, CFE) and the Provide Hope humanitarian mission in Tajikistan amid civil war. He describes a “knife fight” to regain infantry key jobs during post–Cold War drawdowns, deployments in Macedonia and Bosnia, being imbedded with a Russian airborne brigade, a later Tajikistan attaché tour with family hardships and evacuation, Marshall Center faculty/FAO mentorship, Mongolia as dual-hatted defense attaché/security cooperation chief, an Afghanistan/Pakistan tour, retirement, and directing the Foreign Military Studies Office. He emphasizes FAO risk-taking, networking, access, and conveying what partners think, not what Americans want to hear.

To read the original Robert D. Kaplan article you can find it on The Atlantic's website.  If you don't have a subscription, the WayBack Machine is your friend: https://web.archive.org/web/20121020120633/https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/03/the-man-who-would-be-khan/302899/

COL(R) Tom Wilhelm’s Recommended Reading List:

GENERAL

FMSO https://oe.t2com.army.mil  Look for FMSO stuff but many products from T2Com G2 are useful for FAOs.

Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training https://adst.org Exceptional repository of detailed interviews that provide unparalleled country and regional backgrounds over eras.

Red Team Handbook https://home.army.mil/wood/application/files/6115/8222/0759/RedTeamHB.pdf  There are actually ways to approach alternative, critical thinking—very helpful to cross-cultural communication and telling us how “they” think.

Culture Shock: Leadership Lessons from the Military’s Diplomatic Corps (ed. Graham Plaster, Jason Criss Howk—Book by FAOs for FAOs) 

The Worldly Philosophers (Robert Heilbroner; entry level book into developing an understanding of economics and society—a baseline subject for all FAOs. Try also The Mystery of Capitalism by Hernando deSoto)

The Cave and the Light: Plato Versus Aristotle, and the Struggle for the Soul of Western Civilization (Arthur Herman—before you can tell us what we think they think, you should probably want to know how “we think.”) 

RUSSIA

The Russian Way of War (Les Grau and Charles Bartles—on FMSO website [above] or just Google it.)

How Russia Fights https://www.army.mil/article/286922/how_russia_fights (Ted Donnelly, Jeff Hartman, Tom Butler, et.al.)

Swimming the Volga: A US Army Officer’s Experiences in Pre-Putin Russia (Peter Zwack)

The Leviathan (Movie; award winning Russian film has good representation of the individual’s relationship to power in Russia, among other cultural and political-social insights. Made me feel that I was back in Russia, drinking vodka and shooting bottles with an AK47.)

The Trauma Zone (Seven-part series on YouTube; for a sense of post-Cold War chaos in Russia. “Chaos” conjures something tangible in Russia; it’s not just an adjective.)

Seventeen Moments of Spring (12-part series on YouTube; addresses the question: Why a 2025 statue to this 1973 Soviet spy thriller television series was recently installed in Moscow. Part of the answer has to do with those untrustworthy Americans in secret alliance with Nazis against Russia—a once and current theme.)

WHILE YOU LAYOVER AT THE SERRAI

The Empire of the Steppes (Renee Grousset—dense but essential for anybody that thinks they are a Eurasianist, and mandatory for all Silk Road FAOs.)

Mission to Tashkent (F.M. Bailey)

News From Tartary (Peter Flemming)

Eastern Approaches (Fitzroy Maclean)

The Great Game (Peter Hopkirk)

Some Far and Distant Place (Jonathan Addleton)

Across Mongolian Plains (Roy Chapman Andrews—American FAO archetype, 1916-17)

The Wilder Shores of Love (Lesley Blanch—Isabel Burton, Jane Digby, Amiee Dubucq, and Isabelle Eberhrdt join my long-suffering bride, Cheri, in FAO-like misadventures abroad)

00:00 Meet Tom Wilhelm

01:28 The Man Who Would Be Khan

02:24 West Point to Dual Track

07:11 Choosing the FAO Path

11:05 Soviet FAO Pipeline

14:01 Leningrad Language Adventure

19:12 Russian Institute and IRTs

23:33 Wall Comes Down Up Close

27:02 Echo Network and Mentorship

31:04 First FAO Job Arms Control

35:32 Provide Hope in Tajikistan

40:31 Back to Infantry in Europe

42:39 RIF Era Career Knife Fight

44:36 FAO Cuts and Reassignments

45:54 Branch Qualifying Knife Fight

46:08 Macedonia to Bosnia Pivot

48:42 Self Deploying to Bosnia

50:27 Joint Commission in War Zone

53:03 Inside the Russian Brigade

55:11 How Russians Command

58:48 FAO Lesson on Mission Command

01:06:51 Tajikistan Arrival and Isolation

01:09:17 Embassy Life and Local Allies

01:13:29 Surviving Dushanbe Living Conditions

01:18:15 Civil War and Afghan Spillover

01:23:55 Family Evacuation and Zinni Meeting

01:28:28 Soft Power And Access

01:28:51 Peacekeeping Expertise Built

01:31:20 FAO Track And Command List

01:34:19 Marshall Center Fellowship

01:37:03 Mongolia Dual Hat Role

01:44:32 9/11 And Mongolia Pivot

01:46:33 Building Mongolian Peacekeeping

01:55:10 Mongolian Curse Artifact

02:01:27 Back To Marshall Center

02:04:43 Afghanistan To Pakistan Liaison

02:07:23 Retirement And FIMSO

02:09:16 Hall Of Fame And Farewell

Join me for a conversation with LTC(R) Scott Womack, a US Army Foreign Area Officer (FAO) with extensive experience in Africa. We discuss Scott's journey from West Point cadet to FAO, his assignments in Chad, Senegal, and Congo, and his experience in dealing with complex security and diplomatic challenges. Scott shares insights on balancing family life, the importance of language and cultural skills, and how he transitioned to teaching and running a farm post-retirement. 

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:42 Meet Scott Womack: From West Point to FAO

01:28 Academic Pursuits and Research at West Point

02:58 Intercultural Competence and Cadet Experiences

05:01 Real-World Applications and Ethical Dilemmas

08:42 Semester Abroad Programs and Cultural Immersion

10:59 West Point Assignments and Africa Studies

12:51 The Importance of Language and Cultural Training

20:54 Evacuation Operations in Central Africa

38:47 Introduction to Ucomm and African Desk Officers

39:11 Challenges and Opportunities in African Assignments

39:33 Developing Skills and Understanding in Security Assistance

42:13 Transition to Learning French and First Assignment in Chad

42:30 Origin Story and Early Career Influences

45:32 Civil Affairs and the Path to FAO

46:57 Experiences in Rwanda and the Importance of Preparation

48:54 Navigating Assignments and Promotions

58:56 Building Relationships and Overcoming Challenges in Chad

01:04:29 Transition to Senegal and Family Adjustments

01:15:00 Unexpected Transfer to Kinshasa

01:15:23 Challenges of Working in Kinshasa

01:17:12 Navigating International Interests and Security

01:18:47 UN Peacekeeping Efforts and Structural Flaws

01:27:29 Personal Reflections and Coping Mechanisms

01:28:49 Comparing Experiences in Chad and Kinshasa

01:37:05 Final Reflections and Career Transition

01:40:13 Life After Military Service

01:47:38 Closing Thoughts and Advice

In this episode of the Foreign Area Officer Podcast five former Army FAO branch chiefs join me for an in-depth discussion on a range of topics critical to Foreign Area Officers (FAOs). The panel includes Eldridge “Raj” Singleton, Steve Browne, Luke Donahue, Wes Chaney, and Pete Roongsang. They delve into the FAO training pipeline, in-region training, common mistakes made by new FAOs, and provide practical advice for career management and PCS assignments. The conversation highlights the role of the FAO branch chief, the importance of understanding military assignments, and the critical aspects of mentorship within the FAO community. The episode wraps up with personal anecdotes and practical advice aimed at helping FAOs navigate their careers successfully, emphasizing the need for proactive career management, understanding the complexities of diplomacy, personal relationships, and the value of mentorship.

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:41 Meet the Host and Guests

01:26 Colonel Singleton's Journey

02:34 Colonel Brown's Experience

03:46 Colonel Donahue's Career Path

05:51 Lieutenant Colonel Cheney's Background

07:02 Colonel Ang's Story

09:37 Discussion on FAO Training Pipeline

10:52 Challenges and Solutions in FAO Training

24:18 Mistakes and Lessons for New FAOs

40:59 Role of the FAO Branch Chief

48:55 Navigating Authority and Friction in Assignment Processes

49:31 The Role and Challenges of a Branch Chief

50:51 The Importance of Road Showing and FAO Relevancy

54:28 Career Management and Assignment Strategies

01:04:40 Financial and Logistical Challenges in PCS

01:13:22 Integrity and Professionalism in FAO Careers

01:38:06 Falsifying Graduate Degree and Army Dismissal

01:38:25 Inappropriate Behavior at the US Embassy

01:40:23 Assignment Refusal and GI Bill Forfeiture

01:42:09 Misconduct and Consequences in the FAO Community

01:46:22 Challenges and Support for FAOs

01:54:12 Mentorship in the FAO Community

02:16:03 Final Thoughts and Advice for FAOs

In this episode of the Foreign Area Officer Podcast, host Michael Hill interviews retired Lieutenant Colonel Bill Woods, an Eastern European FAO and current instructor at the Joint Military Attaché School (JMAS). LTC Woods shares his experiences and challenges faced during his career, including the undervaluation of FAOs in the past, his roles in Naples, Cyprus, and London, and the importance of building relationships in diplomatic and military contexts. The discussion also touches on the practical aspects of being an FAO, the impact of critical thinking and current doctrinal knowledge, and the unique experiences and opportunities presented by serving at JMAS. Bill reflects on the importance of having fun in the job and staying engaged in current assignments while planning for future roles.

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer

00:42 Welcome and Guest Introduction

00:59 Early Experiences as a FAO

02:13 Challenging Assignments and Career Growth

04:44 Political Advisor Role in Baghdad

07:47 NATO Advisor Experience

23:22 Greek Language and Cultural Immersion

41:39 Access and Opportunities in Foreign Military Education

43:06 Challenges and Misconceptions in Greek War College

44:19 Thesis Writing and Overcoming Language Barriers

44:58 Navigating Cultural and Academic Expectations

45:33 Ethical Dilemmas and Academic Integrity

46:31 Building Relationships and Gaining Respect

47:25 Experiences and Reflections on Military Assignments

49:45 The Importance of Fitting In and Building Trust

51:29 Protocol and Respect in International Military Relations

54:33 Career Path and Assignments in Military Diplomacy

55:59 Navigating the Attache Service and Career Challenges

57:54 The Role of FAOs in Multinational Operations

01:00:25 Balancing Operational Knowledge and Diplomatic Skills

01:07:31 The Value of War College and Continuous Learning

01:20:02 The Future of FAOs in a Changing Military Landscape

01:22:39 Experiences and Challenges in Cyprus

01:27:11 Minister's Support and Explosive Seizure

01:28:06 Meeting the Minister of Defense

01:28:59 The Explosion and Its Aftermath

01:30:14 Improving Relationships Post-Explosion

01:33:44 Challenges and Strategies in Diplomatic Relations

01:42:24 Reflections on Career and FAO Experiences

01:53:13 Working at the Joint Military Attaché School (JMAS)

01:58:28 Advice for Future FAOs and Instructors

02:08:22 Final Thoughts and Farewell

In this episode I’m happy to welcome back LTC(P) Wes Chaney, US Army AFRICOM FAO.  Wes shares his journey in establishing the Army Foreign Area Officer Association and discusses his first book, which delves into his experiences as a security cooperation officer in Africa. The conversation covers a variety of topics including the creation of his Africa OSC blog, the unique challenges faced by FAOs, the importance of mentorship, and the activities of the Army FAO Association. Wes also provides invaluable advice on managing expectations, senior leader engagements, and the specific 'shoulds' (don’t be that guy!)and 'traps' FAOs should be aware of. The episode is a goldmine of information for both current and aspiring FAOs, offering practical tips and reflective anecdotes from Wes's extensive career.

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:40 Welcoming the Guest: Lt. Col. Wes Cheney

01:13 The Birth of the Africa OSC Blog

04:12 Challenges and Realizations in Blogging

06:53 From Blog to Book: The Journey

07:31 Publishing Hurdles and Success

08:59 Content and Structure of the Book

10:38 Practical Advice for Security Cooperation Officers

14:54 The Importance of Adaptability and Learning

15:42 Travel Tips and Cultural Insights

40:21 The Should List: Dos and Don'ts for SCOs

47:36 Understanding Your Role and Building Consensus

48:36 Common Pitfalls in Security Cooperation

49:50 The African Love Traps and Other Hazards

50:48 Misuse of Government Resources

51:12 Managing Health and Stress

01:06:00 The Importance of Senior Leader Engagements

01:16:22 Managing Expectations and Avoiding False Promises

01:22:43 The Army FAO Association: Achievements and Future Plans

01:28:31 The Importance of Mentorship in FAO Careers

Meet MAJ(P) Promotable Jacob Myers, currently serving at the Military Advising Training Academy (MATA) at Fort Benning, Georgia. Our discussion covers the purpose and function of MATA, the development and training of military advisors, and the history and evolution of Security Force Assistance Brigades (SFABs). Myers elaborates on his experience in Latvia, the challenges of building rapport and training in a foreign country, and the rapidly changing dynamics in Eastern Europe following Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We also touch on FAO professional development, the importance of language skills, and the valuable interactions and learning opportunities throughout a FAO’s career.

Books Discussed:

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:45 Meet Major Promotable Jacob Myers

01:11 Understanding the Military Advising Training Academy (MATA)

02:29 History and Evolution of Security Force Assistance Brigades (SFABs)

06:53 Training and Deployment of Military Advisors

10:22 Challenges and Realities of Military Advising

14:05 Combat Advisor Training Course (CATC) Overview

19:14 Practical Training and Exercises

28:50 Expanding Training to Joint Forces and Foreign Partners

35:25 The Role of FAOs in SFABs

39:52 Personal Experience and Future Aspirations

43:51 Understanding the FAO Roles and Responsibilities

46:02 Navigating Challenges in Latvia During COVID-19

47:20 Impact of Russia's Invasion of Ukraine on Latvia

51:02 Strengthening US-Latvia Defense Relations

01:10:07 Language and Cultural Dynamics in Latvia

01:20:21 Jacob's Journey: From Basic Training to FAO Program

01:21:35 Joining the National Guard and Pursuing Active Duty

01:21:58 Transition to Active Duty and Deployment to Afghanistan

01:23:02 Experiences in Afghanistan and Promotion to Captain

01:25:20 Pentagon Assignment and Introduction to FAO

01:26:14 Discovering the FAO Program and Early Influences

01:29:58 Training and Assignments as a FAO

01:30:42 Language Training and Family Experiences

01:32:27 Marshall Center and Regional Travels

01:42:35 Importance of Building Relationships and Staying Informed

01:47:49 Final Thoughts and Advice for FAOs

What crisis was central to your experience working at a U.S. embassy abroad, for better or worse?

Join me in a discussion with COL(R) JP Gresh to discuss his  experiences in Russia, Ukraine, and the Balkans. The conversation highlights key moments such as the 2013-2014 Ukraine crisis, the challenges of security cooperation in Estonia, and the complexities of working in Russia. Additionally, Gresh shares insights into balancing professional and personal life with a spouse in the Department of State, and offers advice for future FAOs on training, career growth, and the importance of adaptability and maintaining strong interagency relationships. COL(R) Grech also serves as the Co-Editor-in-Chief of the FAOA Journal.

Books/Organizations Discussed

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:46 Meet Colonel JP Gresh

01:33 Early Military Career

02:51 Discovering the FAO Path

03:51 Experiences in Germany and the Balkans

05:52 Reflections on Iraq

10:37 Ukraine: First FAO Utilization Tour

13:47 The 2014 Ukrainian Crisis

15:57 US-Ukraine Military Relations

19:52 Strategic Insights on Russia and NATO

29:44 Lessons from UCOM and Security Cooperation

50:54 Balancing Dual Careers in the FAO World

54:14 Reflecting on Professional Challenges and Lessons Learned

56:44 Navigating a Tandem Career in the Department of State

57:19 Insights on Managing Dual Professional Careers

59:33 Experiences and Challenges in Russia

01:01:10 The Complex Relationship Between the U.S. and Russia

01:05:48 Living and Working in Moscow

01:08:54 Surveillance and Daily Life in Moscow

01:12:46 Diplomatic Restrictions and Challenges

01:18:27 Family Life and Safety in Russia

01:23:33 Post-Retirement and Contributions to the FAO Community

01:28:28 Reflections on FAO Training and Career

01:44:22 Final Thoughts and Parting Advice

In this episode of the Foreign Area Officer Podcast, I interview Julie Tully and her husband U.S. Navy CAPT(R) John Tulley. We discuss Julie's transition from a cowgirl in Northern California to a 'nomadic Navy spouse' and the dynamic journey from her career in agriculture to becoming a Foreign Area Officer (FAO) spouse, living and working in Europe and Africa for fifteen consecutive years. The conversation delves into the couple’s experiences living in Cameroon, Nigeria, and Djibouti and the impact of their roles there. They touch on memorable challenges, the importance of self-reliance, and the significant contributions spouses make to the FAO mission. Julie also shares the inspiration and stories behind her book, 'Dispatches from the Cowgirl,' offering a deeper look into the FAO lifestyle and its challenges and rewards.

Learn More about Julie’s work at www.JulieTullyWriter.com

Books Discussed:

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:45 Meet the Guests: John and Julie Tulley

01:19 Julie's Journey: From Cowgirl to Navy Spouse

03:37 Life on the Ranch and Transition to FAO

04:55 The FAO Lifestyle: Challenges and Adaptations

14:11 John's Naval Academy and Submarine Experience

19:16 Discovering the FAO Career Path

22:07 Julie's Perspective: Public Relations and FAO Life

25:46 Adventures and Challenges in Africa

34:16 The Importance of Teamwork in FAO Assignments

43:10 A Hospital Emergency Room in Nigeria

57:04 The Commissary Conundrum

59:10 Internet Surprises in Nigeria

59:47 Defining Home Across Continents

01:09:18 Experiencing Local Cultures Through Staff

01:34:19 Honoring a Fallen Hero in Djibouti

01:49:14 Reflections on the FAO Life

Join me for an illuminating discussion with Colonel Matt Kopp, a U.S. Army FAO. We explore Colonel Kopp's beginning as a 48B, focusing on pivotal partnerships in Latin America, particularly during the final phases of Colombia’s Civil War. Colonel Kopp shares insights into his transition to a 48J, concentrating on Sub-Saharan Africa, and the critical need to understand and respond to the human and institutional complexities in these regions. The conversation includes discussions on his operational challenges, such as managing high-profile visits and interagency coordination, and the role of psychology and sociology in his duties. We also touch upon his work with the Army Foreign Area Officer Association, focusing on mentorship, fostering academic discourse, and preparing FAOs for influential second careers.

Books Discussed

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers

00:42 Meet Colonel Matt Kopp

01:01 Career Choices and Transitions

02:22 Experiences in Sub-Saharan Africa

03:39 Challenges and Responsibilities at HRC

08:23 PhD Journey and Research

15:36 Transition to Africa FAO

23:02 Building Relationships and Team Dynamics

31:07 Insights on Leadership and Collaboration

43:46 Psychological Factors and Broader Perspectives

48:18 Understanding Heuristics in International Relations

50:28 Managing High Operational Tempo in Kenya

51:00 Military Operations and Planning in Diplomatic Missions

56:26 Lessons from Secret Service and VIP Visits

01:04:04 Transition to Army Service Component Commands

01:13:01 Experiences in Latin America and SOUTHCOM

01:26:32 The Role of the Army Foreign Area Officer Association

01:33:31 Final Thoughts and Recommendations