The Future Of Less Work

What does it actually take to hire the best person for the job no matter where they are in the world?

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Sagar Khatri, CEO and co-founder of Multiplier, to explore what’s really behind the promise of global hiring. The idea sounds simple: if talent exists everywhere, companies should be able to access it from anywhere. But in practice, most organizations still
don’t. Sagar explains why the challenge is no longer about possibility but about execution. From operational complexity to deeply ingrained habits, companies are still figuring out what it takes to actually hire across borders. The conversation also uncovers a shift in how companies engage talent. Moving beyond outsourcing and contract work, organizations are increasingly hiring globally as employees—especially in critical roles shaped by AI, where ownership, continuity, and intellectual property matter more than ever. And global hiring itself is evolving. It’s no longer just about accessing lower-cost talent. It’s becoming a way to access markets,
customers, and growth—changing how companies think about where work happens and why.

If you’re trying to understand the shift from moving people to work to moving work to people — and what it takes to actually make that happenת this episode gets to what’s actually changing, and what it takes to make it
real.

https://youtu.be/BDiPm87u0_Q

Guest Information:
Sagar Khatri, a visionary leader and entrepreneur, serves as the CEO and co-founder of Multiplier, a pioneering global employment solution empowering businesses to seamlessly hire, onboard, and compensate talent across 150+ countries. Motivated by his firsthand encounters with the complexities of international expansion in prior ventures, Sagar, alongside his co-founders, established Multiplier to redefine the employment landscape. Their mission is to simplify global workforce management, ensuring it's as effortless as managing local teams, while handling intricacies such as employment contracts, payroll, taxes, and benefits in compliance with local regulations.

Links:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sagar-khatri-53529359/
Multiplier website: https://www.usemultiplier.com/

Chapters:
00:00 What Does It Mean To Hire Talent Anywhere In The World?
01:08 Are Companies Really Hiring Globally?
02:14 Why Is Work Still Tied To Location?
03:04 How Remote Work Changed Global Hiring
05:25 Why H-1B Costs Are Changing Hiring Strategy
08:23 What Actually Blocks Global Hiring Today?
09:02 Why Companies Are Still Afraid To Hire Internationally
10:11 Are Companies Moving Away From Gig Work?
10:59 Why AI Is Driving A Shift Back To Full-Time Employment
14:04 Why Companies Around The World Are Hiring In North America
15:30 How AI Is Changing Global Talent Flows
17:08 Can You Build A Global Company From Anywhere?
19:41 What Will The Workforce Look Like In The Age Of AI?
23:30 What Are Micro Enterprises And The “Atom Of Work”?
25:12 What Is The Most Important Question About The Future Of Work?
25:39 How Global Work Changes Careers, Companies, And Governments

What happens when employees can do more than their organizations allow? As AI takes on execution, people are gaining the ability to direct work, make decisions, and own outcomes. But most organizations are not built to absorb that shift.

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Jared Spataro, Chief Marketing Officer, AI at Work at Microsoft, to explore the findings behind the 2026 Microsoft Work Trend Index—and the growing gap between individual capability and organizational readiness.

Together, they unpack what Microsoft calls “blocked agency,” the emerging reality where employees are ready to operate at a higher level but are held back by outdated structures, metrics, and management practices. The conversation explores how AI is shifting work from execution to decision-making, why the most advanced users sometimes choose not to use AI, and how “frontier professionals” are already redesigning work around agents.

Spataro shares what separates “frontier firms” from the rest, why organizational culture and management practices matter more than individual skill, and how both bottom-up experimentation and top-down leadership are required to unlock real value. He also offers a look at what’s already changing inside software development—and why that transformation is a preview of what’s coming across all knowledge work.

If you’re trying to understand why AI isn’t delivering the impact organizations expected—or what it will take to redesign work around it — this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠”⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AI Is Expanding Employee Agency. Why Most Organizations Block It⁠⁠”, to explore these ideas further.  

https://youtu.be/F1T121bDMp4 

Guest Information:

Jared leads efforts to help every organization leverage AI to solve their unique business problems, reduce costs, and drive net-new value creation. Jared and his team conduct research to help predict and shape what the future of work and business will look like across industries, while also delivering new products and features within Copilot, Microsoft 365, Dynamics 365, and Power Platform. 

Links:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/worklab/work-trend-index 

Chapters:

00:00 – How AI Is Changing Work In 2026
01:48 – 2026 Microsoft Work Trend Index
02:43 – What Kind Of Work People Use AI For Today
04:01 – Who Are Frontier Professionals In AI
06:01 – Why The Best AI Users Know When Not To Use AI
06:55 – Will AI Hurt Learning And Skill Development At Work
08:35 – What Is Blocked Agency At Work
09:14 – Why Organizations Block AI Impact
10:38 – Can Managers Unlock AI Without Changing Culture
11:10 – How One Employee Can Change AI Culture At Work
13:06 – Why Fear Blocks AI Adoption In Organizations
14:57 – Why AI Training Alone Doesn’t Work
15:39 – What Is A Learning Organization In The Age Of AI
17:46 – What Are Frontier Firms Doing Differently With AI
18:09 – How AI Is Changing Jobs From Doers To Managers
20:26 – What Happens If Organizations Get AI Right
22:27 – Can Companies Transform Fast Enough For AI
23:39 – Why The Future Of Work Is Not About Efficiency

What really happens when AI enters a large organization? How does it reshape roles, skills, and work itself?

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Maryjo Charbonnier, former Chief Human Resources Officer at Kyndryl, to explore what it actually takes to translate AI from strategy into workforce reality inside a large, complex organization undergoing transformation.

Drawing on her experience leading the transition of 80,000 employees through Kyndryl’s spin-off from IBM, Maryjo reframes AI not as a technology shift, but as a cultural and behavioral one.

Together, they unpack how AI is reshaping work by breaking work into tasks, workflows, and skill combinations that can be reassembled in new ways. The conversation dives into one of the hardest operational challenges organizations face today: understanding skills. From overwhelming amounts of data to building AI-powered systems that dynamically match people to work, Maryjo shares what it takes to move from job-based structures to skill-based deployment at scale.

If you’re leading AI transformation—or trying to understand how to align technology, people, and work in a system that no longer stands still—this conversation offers a grounded, inside look at what it takes to make it work.

https://youtu.be/kk7Ys5CpR1M

Guest Information:

Maryjo Charbonnier serves as Executive Advisor to Kyndryl, supporting customers in transforming their workforces in the age of AI. She was Kyndryl’s first Chief Human Resources Officer from its founding as an independent company in 2021 to March 2026, bringing extensive experience in global HR leadership and large corporate transformations.

Maryjo joined Kyndryl from Wolters Kluwer, a global provider of professional information, software solutions and services for professionals, where she served as Chief Human Resources Officer since 2015. Prior to joining Wolters Kluwer, Maryjo served as Chief Human Resource Officer at Broadridge Financial Solutions for seven years. Earlier in her career, she was an HR executive in a variety of leadership roles at PepsiCo, including VP for Talent Sustainability for PepsiCo Foods Americas, a unit with $30 billion in revenues and more than 120,000 employees.

A native of the Detroit area, Maryjo is a graduate of Catholic University in Washington, DC, and earned her MBA at the Southern Methodist University in Dallas. She was named "CHRO of the Year” in 2019 and 2024.

Links:
Kyndryl’s approach to change management in the agentic AI era 
2025 Kyndryl Readiness Report

Chapters:
00:00 – How Are Companies Actually Implementing AI In Large Organizations?
01:36 – Why AI Transformation Is a Culture Change, Not a Technology Change
05:17 – How Do You Build a Learning Organization That Actually Works?
05:59 – How AI Changes Jobs: From Tasks to Workflows to Roles
08:17 – Who Owns Reskilling in the Age of AI? Employees or Managers?
09:04 – How Do You Change Culture Across 80,000 Employees?
10:48 – How Do You Make Organizations Faster and Less Bureaucratic?
11:46 – What Leadership Skills Are Needed in the Age of AI?
13:07 – How Should Leaders Redesign Work for AI and Automation?
14:30 – What Is Human Judgment in the Age of AI?
15:59 – How Do You Reduce Fear of AI Replacing Jobs?
17:42 – What Does Employability Mean in the AI Era?
18:27 – How Are Employees Using AI to Become More Productive?
23:15 – How Do You Build a Skills-Based Organization with AI?
24:57 – Can AI Predict Skills and Career Transitions?
27:59 – How Do Companies Match People to Work Using Skills?
29:10 – What Does Success Look Like in AI Transformation?

As AI moves from supporting work to performing it, organizations face a far more complex challenge than adopting new tools. They must redesign how work itself is structured, measured, and managed when part of the workforce is no longer human.

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Brandon Metcalf, Founder and CEO of Asymbl, to explore what it really means to operate a hybrid workforce of humans and digital workers. Together, they unpack how companies must rethink job design from the ground up. Through concrete examples, from recruiting workflows to AI-generated executive briefings, the conversation reveals how easily organizations can lose critical business outcomes when they automate without understanding the full context of work.

Nirit and Brandon explore the implications for talent development, leadership, and organizational design. How do you train people to manage work they no longer perform themselves? What happens to entry-level learning when foundational tasks disappear? And how do leaders ensure their organizations don’t simply layer AI onto outdated processes?

Looking ahead, the conversation highlights what will separate organizations that succeed from those that struggle: the willingness to rethink work from first principles. Rather than forcing new technology into legacy models, leading companies will redesign their operations around outcomes, blending human and digital capabilities into a cohesive system.

If you’re navigating AI transformation or questioning how work should be structured in a world of digital teammates, this episode offers a sharp and practical perspective on what it takes to build organizations that truly operate in the future of work.

https://youtu.be/cYJsCMTWv9U 

Guest Information:

Brandon Metcalf is the Founder and CEO of Asymbl, a workforce orchestration company that helps organizations coordinate human employees and digital workers as unified systems. He leads Salesforce consulting, digital labor advisory, and workforce applications to scale businesses with speed and discipline. A serial founder, he built and exited Talent Rover (Inc. 500 #9, acquired 2018) and integrated Blueprint Advisory into Asymbl. Harvard Business School OPM graduate with deep staffing roots, he emphasizes practical execution, measurable outcomes, and close Salesforce partnerships.

Links: 

• Asymbl Website: https://www.asymbl.com/
• Asymbl LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asymbl-inc/ 
• Brandon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/metcalf/

Chapters:

00:00 What Is Workforce Orchestration and Why It Matters Now
01:16 How Do Humans and AI Work Together in Companies
02:21 What Changes When Work Becomes Hybrid Human and AI
02:53 What Is a Digital Worker vs AI Tool Explained
05:18 Why Automating Tasks Can Break Business Outcomes
06:30 What Is “Motivation for Success” in Job Design
07:21 Why AI Automation Doesn’t Deliver Real ROI
08:55 How to Redesign Jobs for AI and Digital Workers
09:54 Why Job Descriptions Miss What Actually Matters
12:16 What Is the Talent Paradox in the Age of AI
13:11 Will AI Replace Jobs or Change Roles Instead
15:02 How Do You Train People to Manage AI Output
16:02 Why Human Skills Shift From Doing Work to Defining Outcomes
17:08 How to Coach and Manage AI Digital Workers
17:28 Real Example of AI Running Business Insights (Bradley Case)
19:44 Why AI Needs Continuous Coaching Not Set-and-Forget
20:17 How Managers Should Oversee AI and Human Teams
23:19 How Technology Changes Jobs Over Time (Fax to AI)
23:45 What Leaders Get Wrong About AI Productivity
24:44 How to Implement AI Without Breaking Your Business
25:43 What Will AI-First Organizations Look Like
26:39 Why Some Companies Succeed With AI and Others Fail
28:03 Why You Must Rethink Business Processes for AI
29:03 What Question Leaders Should Ask About the Future of Work
29:26 How Would You Design Your Business From Scratch With AI

Why are so many companies trying to return to the old rules of work just as technology is pushing organizations forward? And what happens when leaders treat AI primarily as a cost-cutting tool instead of using it to expand human potential?

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Brian Elliott, CEO of Work Forward and a leading voice in the conversation about modern leadership and workplace transformation. Together they explore why the renewed push toward command-and-control leadership is unlikely to succeed in today’s organizations.

Drawing on years of research and leadership experience, Elliott explains why headlines about strict return-to-office policies do not reflect what most organizations are actually doing. The deeper challenge facing leaders is not where people work but how work itself is designed. Productivity today depends on clarity of goals, trust in employees, and the ability to align teams around meaningful outcomes.

The conversation also explores how this leadership shift intersects with the rapid adoption of AI. Many organizations are approaching AI as a tool for efficiency and cost reduction. Elliott argues that this framing limits the real opportunity. Companies that treat AI as a way to amplify human capability and unlock new value will move much faster than those focused only on automation.

Nirit and Brian discuss what it takes to build organizations where people and technology work together effectively. They examine how leaders can help teams experiment with AI, why shared learning matters, and how a clear sense of purpose can guide organizations through rapid technological change.

If you are trying to understand what leadership looks like in the age of AI and why trust, clarity, and human potential matter more than control, this conversation offers a powerful perspective on where work is heading next.

https://youtu.be/YFmMhITZVyU 

Guest Information:

Brian Elliott is CEO of Work Forward, executive-in-residence at Charter, and a Senior Advisor with BCG. A recognized expert on the future of work and the bestselling author of How the Future Works, he spent 25 years in tech as a startup CEO and executive at Google and Slack before co-founding Future Forum, a think tank focused on the future of work. He publishes Flex Index, the Work Forward and Charter newsletters, and was named to Forbes' Future of Work 50.

His work enables leaders to build a future of work that's better for people and organizations, combining research-backed insights with practical advice from 30 years of leadership experience.

For the latest, read his newsletter and follow on LinkedIn.

Links: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/belliott

https://www.theworkforward.com/

https://theworkforward.substack.com/

Chapters:

00:00 Why Command And Control Leadership Is Failing
01:00 What Is Really Happening With Return To Office Policies
02:20 Why Leaders Don’t Trust Employees At Work
03:30 Why Measuring Activity Kills Productivity
06:30 Why Employees Fear AI Replacing Their Jobs
07:40 Why AI Adoption Fails Without Clear Goals
09:00 How To Measure Productivity Instead Of AI Usage
13:00 Why Internal Competition Hurts Team Performance
14:15 What Is AI Burnout And How To Prevent It
15:40 Who Benefits From AI Productivity Gains
18:30 How To Train Teams To Use AI Effectively
22:00 Why Trust Matters More Than Location In Work
25:00 How To Balance Flexibility And Collaboration
29:30 What Future Of Work Should We Create

What actually pushes someone from thinking about change to finally doing something about it? Why do some people leave their jobs while others renegotiate their relationship with work instead?

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Anthony Klotz, professor of organizational behavior at UCL School of Management and the researcher credited with coining the Great Resignation, to explore the invisible moments that reshape careers. Drawing from his new book Jolted, Klotz explains how careers rarely change gradually. Instead, they shift in response to sudden events—what he calls “jolts”—that cause people to pause and rethink their relationship with work.

Together, Nirit and Anthony unpack the many forms these jolts can take, from workplace disappointments and career milestones to personal events and global shocks. The conversation explores why these moments are becoming more common in a world of nonlinear careers, why the traditional stay-or-quit decision is no longer the only response, and how many people now respond to jolts by renegotiating their work rather than walking away.

They also examine how the pandemic acted as a collective jolt that reshaped expectations about work and life—and why artificial intelligence may become the next wave of career-defining moments. From identity shifts caused by new technology to the ways managers can recognize and support employees through pivotal moments, the discussion reveals how careers are increasingly shaped by reflection, experimentation, and reconfiguration.

If you’ve ever experienced a moment that made you suddenly question your job, your priorities, or your future at work, this episode offers a powerful lens for understanding why—and what to do next.

Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"⁠⁠⁠⁠The Moment Employees Decide To Leave — And Why Leaders Miss It", to explore these ideas further.  

https://youtu.be/Kv025f8pzLM 

Guest Information:

Anthony Klotz is a professor of organizational behavior at UCL School of Management in London. He is best known for predicting a global pandemic–related labor shift and dubbing it the Great Resignation. A leading scholar on the psychology of work, he has written for Harvard Business Review and The Wall Street Journal, and his research is regularly published in the leading academic journals in management. He has discussed the current and future of work with media outlets, including NBC News, Bloomberg Businessweek, CNN, CNBC, Today, The New York Times, Financial Times, BBC, and NPR, and with executive teams at numerous Fortune 100 firms.

Links:

Author Site: https://www.mgmt.ucl.ac.uk/people/anthonyklotz 

Chapters:

00:00 – Why You Suddenly Want to Quit Your Job
01:05 – What Makes You Rethink Your Career Path
02:00 – Signs It’s Time to Change Jobs or Careers
04:45 – Did COVID Change How We Think About Work
06:29 – Should You Quit Your Job or Stay
07:45 – Is Quiet Quitting Actually Setting Boundaries
10:30 – How AI Is Changing Jobs and Career Decisions
13:20 – Can Managers Tell When You’re About to Quit
15:20 – How to Talk to Your Boss When You Feel Stuck
17:00 – What to Do If You Don’t Want to Quit but Aren’t Happy
17:45 – How People Start Side Hustles or Career Changes
19:18 – What Question Should You Ask About Your Career
20:40 – Can AI Help You Find Better Work

What happens when AI moves into places where error is not an option like banking approvals, medical claims, pharmaceutical compliance, the future of work becomes legal, operational, and deeply human.

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Arya Bolurfrushan, Founder and CEO of AppliedAI, to explore what happens when automation enters highly regulated, mission-critical workflows where every decision must be auditable, defensible, and accountable.

Together, they unpack the concept of “supervised automation” where AI performs the bulk of the execution while humans remain responsible for final judgment, mid-process checkpoints, and liability. Arya explains why fully autonomous systems struggle in regulated environments, how “compliance as code” can embed legal constraints directly into AI workflows, and why accountability cannot simply disappear as machines take over execution. What does it mean to be accountable when you no longer do most of the work? How do professionals develop judgment if entry-level “grunt work” disappears? And who carries risk, reputation, and responsibility in an AI-native organization?

If you’re leading AI transformation in regulated industries—or simply wondering what remains uniquely human when machines execute most of the process, this episode will challenge how you think about work, accountability, and meaning in the age of AI.

Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠If AI Does The Work, How Do People Build Expertise?⁠⁠", to explore these ideas further.  

https://youtu.be/F9Ty5yLKx0Y 

Guest Information:

Arya H. Bolurfrushan is the Founder and CEO of AppliedAI, the world's most boring artificial intelligence company focused on increasing productivity of mission-critical workflows in regulated industries by an order of magnitude.

Previously, Arya co-founded Accrete Capital, a technology-backed investment platform democratizing alternative investments that has deployed over $2B in equity. Before that, Arya served as GM, CFO and on the Nominations Committee of the Board of Directors of RAK Petroleum, taking the company public on the Oslo Stock Exchange (RAKP.OL). He began his career at Goldman Sachs’s Investment Strategy Group in New York, focused on private equity and technology.

Arya studied at Oxford, Stanford, Cambridge, and the Cordon Bleu, and received his MSc and BSc from Carnegie Mellon and an MBA from Harvard Business School.  

Chapters:

00:00 What Happens When AI Enters Highly Regulated Industries?
00:47 How Do You Design AI Where Error Is Not An Option?
02:16 How Do Companies Safely Deploy AI In Regulated Environments?
02:44 What Is Supervised Automation In AI Workflows?
04:50 Why Can’t You Fully Automate Regulated Industries?
05:51 Who Is Liable When AI Makes Decisions?
09:06 Is Human Oversight In AI A Temporary Or Permanent Model?
10:40 Does AI Make Knowledge Work Better Or Worse?
12:20 How Does AI Increase Productivity In Regulated Workflows?
12:46 How Do Workers Develop Judgment In AI-Driven Jobs?
13:48 Will AI Eliminate Entry-Level Jobs In Regulated Industries?
16:36 Can You Train Judgment Without Hands-On Experience?
17:31 How Does AI Force Companies To Document Hidden Knowledge?
17:53 How Should Regulation Change For AI In Critical Work?
18:51 Where Should Humans Fit In AI-Native Workflows?
19:45 Why Does AI Require Business Process Reengineering?
20:14 Why Is AI Transformation A Human Problem Not A Tech Problem?
20:58 Why Is Innovation Harder In Highly Regulated Industries?
21:30 Can AI Embed Compliance Directly Into Workflows?
23:45 What Will AI In Regulated Industries Look Like In 5 Years?
24:58 Will Regulation Protect Human Jobs In The Age Of AI?
28:15 What Happens If Work Is No Longer Needed For Income?
29:29 Who Should Benefit From AI Productivity Gains?
31:23 Why Do Employees Resist AI Adoption?
32:41 Why Should Labor Be Priced By Output Instead Of Time?

As AI accelerates across organizations, most conversations still focus on tools, pilots, and productivity gains. But AI is also exposing cracks that were already there - misaligned leadership, siloed systems, fragile middle layers, and outdated assumptions about how transformation works. In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Barbara Wittmann, founder of the Digital Wisdom Collective and former interim CIO, to explore why AI is less a technology shift and more a leadership mirror. Barbara argues that the real constraint in AI transformation isn’t infrastructure - it’s human infrastructure. Together, Nirit and Barbara unpack why middle management is the critical layer where strategy meets execution. They explore how AI surfaces governance gaps, weak data foundations, and cultural misalignment faster than any previous technology wave. Barbara challenges leaders to look under the hood and redesign how people, systems, and decision-making work together. The conversation dives into what “Digital Wisdom” really means - the human capacity for asking better questions, sensing system dynamics, aligning across functions, and building collective intelligence in an era of accelerating change. They also examine why HR and IT can no longer operate in parallel universes, and why transformation must shift from episodic shake-ups to continuous evolution.Finally, Barbara offers practical advice for managers in the middle: build coalitions of the willing, step out of the echo chamber, and strengthen the uniquely human capabilities that AI cannot replicate.If you’re navigating AI transformation and wondering whether the real upgrade needed is technical or human, this conversation will challenge how you see both leadership and work itself.

https://youtu.be/fai6Nofk4t4

Guest Information:

Barbara Wittmann is the founder of the Digital Wisdom Collective, helping organizations unlock the human side of AI and transformation. A strategist, advisor, and former interim CIO, she specializes in aligning business, IT, and people by developing the “Human Infrastructure” that makes technology work. Barbara is known for her work with global companies, her cross-industry leadership programs, and her bold message that the middle layer holds the key to the future of work.

Links:

www.digitalwisdom.co

https://www.linkedin.com/in/barbarawittmann/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/digitalwisdomcollective/

https://substack.com/@barbarawittmann/

Chapters:

00:00 What Is Digital Wisdom In The Age Of AI

01:06 Why Do We Need A Digital Wisdom Collective

02:15 What Is The Human Advantage Over AI

03:21 Do Humans Need To Reskill For AI

03:57 Why Answers Are Cheap And Questions Matter More

04:24 How AI Changes Organizational Thinking Models

05:04 How Should Leaders Redesign Work With AI

05:37 Why Middle Management Is Critical In AI Transformation

06:01 Should Companies Eliminate Middle Management

06:03 Why You Can’t Delegate Complexity To AI

07:30 Why AI Pilots Fail Without Process Redesign

08:22 What Is Human Infrastructure In Organizations

09:18 Why HR And IT Must Work Together In AI

10:34 How AI Transformation Is Different From Digital Transformation

11:09 How AI Exposes Organizational Misalignment

11:45 Why AI Pilots Often Fail In Companies

13:10 Does AI Transformation Start From The Bottom Up

13:45 Why Poor Data Breaks AI Strategy

14:16 Is AI Just Automation Rebranded

15:26 Why Companies Must Fix Data Before AI

16:18 Who Is Responsible For AI Transformation

17:01 Should HR And IT Be Combined

18:15 What Should Managers Do Differently With AI

18:29 How To Build A Coalition Of The Willing At Work

19:42 Why Transformation Must Become Continuous

20:51 What Is The Most Important Future Of Work Question

21:20 How Humans And AI Will Co-Create Work

22:16 How Do You Find Your Unique Human Value

23:08 Why You Must Step Outside Your Echo Chamber

24:11 How To Discover Your Unique Value At Work

24:49 Why Self-Awareness Matters More In The AI Era

AI is no longer just another workplace technology. It is a general-purpose capability that is beginning to reshape how work is designed, how decisions are made, and how organizations create value.

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with David Mallon, Chief Futurist and Head of Research for Deloitte’s Human Capital practice, to unpack the biggest insights from the 2026 Deloitte Global Human Capital Trends report.  The conversation explores why this moment of AI adoption is fundamentally different from past technology shifts. Unlike earlier tools that automated tasks, generative AI is entering knowledge work itself, acting as collaborator, analyst, and decision partner. That shift forces organizations to rethink how humans and machines work together and how leadership, productivity, and expertise evolve in an AI-enabled workplace.

Nirit and David discuss why many companies are approaching AI through a narrow productivity lens, focusing on efficiency rather than redesigning work around human-machine collaboration. They examine the growing need for leaders to intentionally design how people interact with AI systems, orchestrate work across humans and intelligent tools, and rethink performance when technology can dramatically amplify individual output.

The episode also explores a deeper challenge: how workers develop expertise when AI increasingly performs the early tasks that traditionally built experience. As organizations move faster to adopt AI, leaders must decide how to balance productivity, learning, and human judgment in a workplace where machines are part of the team.

If you’re trying to understand what AI really means for organizations—not just tools, but the design of work itself—this conversation looks at the choices leaders must make as human and machine collaboration becomes the new operating model of work.

Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"⁠⁠⁠⁠AI Is Creating Culture Debt In Organizations⁠⁠", to explore these ideas further.  

https://youtu.be/1KJeMLNXyZE

Guest Information:

David Mallon, a managing director at Deloitte Consulting LLP, is the head of research and chief futurist for Human Capital in the United States. With more than 25 years of experience in human capital, he helps organizations sense, analyze, and act with purpose. Mallon has been a key contributor to Deloitte’s Global Human Capital Trends study since its inception and leads Insights2Action—Deloitte’s Human Capital decision intelligence capability. 

Links: 

2026 Human Capital Trends report: https://www.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/topics/talent/human-capital-trends.html

Forbes article on Culture Debt: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niritcohen/2026/03/04/ai-is-creating-culture-debt-in-organizations/

Chapters:

00:00 — What Is the Deloitte 2026 Human Capital Trends Report About?
01:29 — Why Is AI Different From Previous Technology Revolutions?
05:46 — Will AI Replace Human Thinking or Augment It?
10:03 — How Will Workers Build Experience If AI Does the Work?
13:28 — How Should Humans and AI Work Together at Work?
17:49 — Are Companies Using AI Only for Productivity Gains?
21:09 — What Must Change in Leadership for the AI Era?
23:09 — What Surprised Researchers in the 2026 Human Capital Trends Report?
24:01 — What Is Culture Debt and Why Should Leaders Care?
26:57 — Are Executives Trusting AI Decisions Too Much?
27:47 — What Is the Most Important Leadership Insight About AI?
28:54 — How Should Organizations Design Human–AI Collaboration?
31:46 — What Question Should Leaders Ask About the Future of Work? 

What if the biggest barrier to AI transformation isn’t technology at all, but the fact that most organizations don’t actually understand how work gets done?

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Vijay Swaminathan, co-founder and CEO of Draup, to explore what really breaks when AI meets industrial-age assumptions about jobs, roles, and headcount.

The conversation begins with a fundamental shift in strategic workforce planning. Once a headcount exercise buried inside HR, it is now being pulled into the center of enterprise strategy as organizations try to allocate work between humans, machines, contractors, and AI agents. Vijay explains why traditional job descriptions no longer reflect reality, how large portions of work remain hidden inside workflows and processes, and why this invisible layer holds the greatest opportunity for AI-driven productivity.

Together, Nirit and Vijay unpack how roles are fragmenting into builders, orchestrators, and synthesizers, why labor arbitrage is losing its power, and how leaders often underestimate the complexity of the human work that remains after automation. They also explore why metrics of power, control, and success built around headcount and org charts are starting to collapse, and what replaces them.

This episode is a deep dive into the uncomfortable truth behind AI transformation: before organizations can redesign jobs, they must first see the work itself. And that shift, from org charts to workflows, may be the hardest change of all.

If you’re trying to make sense of AI, skills volatility, and the future of workforce planning, this conversation offers a clear lens into what’s already changing beneath the surface.

https://youtu.be/zkSdBx8L8zM

Guest Information:

Vijay Swaminathan is the Co-Founder & CEO of Draup, an AI copilot that helps global enterprises make strategic talent decisions. A recognized thought leader in the talent space, Vijay brings deep expertise in product ideation, concept-to-product transitions, and platform enablement. His career is marked by a strong command of data analytics, operations research, and strategic management. Vijay has designed numerous quantitative models and heuristics focused on global talent dynamics, cutting-edge business analytics, and strategic business maneuvers. He is also the co-founder of Zinnov, a leading research & advisory firm, and TalentNeuron, which was acquired by CEB, a Gartner company (NYSE: IT). Previously, Vijay held senior positions at Hewitt Associates and KPMG Consulting.

Links:
https://draup.com/talent/ceo-newsletter/mastering-ai-readiness-for-hr-leaders

https://draup.com/talent/ceo-newsletter/the-hidden-work-in-hr-building-on-mits-project-iceberg 

https://draup.com/talent/ceo-newsletter/tech-talent-strategies-of-2025-draups-annual-report

https://draup.com/talent/ceo-newsletter/the-new-frontier-of-strategic-workforce-planning

Chapters:

00:00 – How AI Is Changing Strategic Workforce Planning
01:25 – What Does Strategic Workforce Planning Mean in the Age of AI?
05:35 – Why Job Descriptions No Longer Reflect Real Work
07:48 – How AI Exposes Hidden Work Inside Organizations
09:25 – Can AI Read Process Maps and Redesign Workflows?
11:02 – Why Companies Struggle to Document Real Tasks
12:58 – Builders vs Orchestrators: Who Actually Uses AI in Enterprises?
15:38 – Where Leaders Oversimplify AI Workforce Transformation
17:25 – Why Human Verification Gets More Complex With AI
20:09 – What Happens to Work in an AI-Driven Organization?
22:36 – Why AI Forces Companies Beyond the Org Chart
24:23 – Rethinking Headcount Models in the Age of AI
26:21 – Should Workforce Planning Focus on Workflows Instead of Jobs?