Zack, Jenn, and Alex debate whether the US should continue to treat Saudi Arabia as a close partner given its atrocious human rights abuses and the declining US dependence on Middle Eastern oil. In the second half of the show, Jenn interviews Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) about his proposed strategy for a new US approach to the Persian Gulf.

References:

Read Sen. Murphy’s Foreign Affairs piece on a new Middle East strategy

Read Alex’s profile about Sen. Murphy’s foreign policy views.

Alex also wrote about how Biden didn’t follow through on his promise to punish MBS.

CNN reported that the Biden administration never considered sanctioning MBS.

In 2018 Alex conducted an interview with an expert on why the US wouldn’t end its relationship with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi murder.

You can read America’s intelligence report on the Khashoggi murder.

Hosts:
Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent, Vox
Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth), senior foreign editor, Vox
Alex Ward (@AlexWardVox), White House reporter, Vox
 
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More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Today, Explained, Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
 
About Vox:
Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.
 
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The future of the US-Saudi relationship (ft. Sen. Chris Murphy)

We live in a confusing time, bombarded every day with news from around the world that can be hard to follow, or fully understand. Let Worldly be your guide. Every Thursday, senior writer Zack Beauchamp, senior foreign editor Jennifer Williams, and staff defense writer Alex Ward give you the history and context you need to make sense of the moment and navigate the world around you. Produced by Vox and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

News

Politics

News Commentary

In the very! last! episode! of the Worldly podcast, Zack interviews renowned economic historian Adam Tooze about his forthcoming book, Shutdown — an early history of the year 2020, one that felt to many like the end of the world as they knew it. Zack and Adam discuss what the fateful year taught us about the global economic system, the rise of China, and the stability of the US-led world order. And don’t miss goodbye messages from Jenn and Zack (at the start and end of the show). We love you, listeners!

References:
Preorder our guest Adam Tooze’s new book, Shutdown, the subject of the conversation.
Hosts:
Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent, Vox
Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth), senior foreign editor, Vox
Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1), foreign and national security reporter, Vox
Consider contributing to Vox:
If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox:
bit.ly/givepodcasts
More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Today, Explained, Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
About Vox:
Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.
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Newsletter: Vox Sentences
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The end of the World(ly)

Zack, Jenn, and Jen Kirby look at how authoritarianism has become internationalized, through the lens of two recent news stories: 1) Fox News host Tucker Carlson choosing to broadcast his show from Hungary this week; and 2) a Belarusian Olympian in Tokyo seeking asylum out of fear of punishment by the Lukashenko regime after she criticized her coach on social media. They discuss what happened in both of those cases, as well as what the events tell us about the ways authoritarian governments are expanding their international reach, by developing ties with like-minded influential figures in other countries and by threatening — and, in some cases, kidnapping or even assassinating — dissidents abroad.

References:

Zack on why Tucker Carlson’s trip to Hungary matters.

Why US conservatives admire Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.

How Hungary’s democracy died.

The Belarusian Olympian who would not go home.

Here’s the transcript of Belarusian officials pressuring Olympic sprinter Krystsina Tsimanouskaya.

Freedom House’s report on the rise of “transnational repression.”
 
Hosts:
Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent, Vox
Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth), senior foreign editor, Vox
Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1), foreign and national security reporter, Vox
 
Consider contributing to Vox:
If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox:
bit.ly/givepodcasts
 
More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Today, Explained, Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
About Vox:
Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.
Follow us:
Vox.com
Newsletter: Vox Sentences
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Authoritarians without borders

Zack, Jenn, and Jen Kirby discuss the political crisis gripping Tunisia following the president’s decision to fire the prime minister and suspend parliament. Tunisia was the big “success story” of the Arab Spring: the one country whose revolution produced a real, albeit rocky, transition to democracy — a democracy that is now in crisis. The gang explains what’s going on, what it all means for Tunisia’s future, and how — or whether — the international community should respond.

References:

Tunisia’s president fired its prime minister and suspended parliament

Is what happened in Tunisia a coup?

A helpful timeline outlining Tunisia’s democratic transition

Tunisia’s imperfect democracy was still a model, wrote Sarah E. Yerkes in 2019 

Foreign Policy on the problem with calling Tunisia the Arab Spring’s “lone success story”

Bloomberg’s Hussein Ibish on why this crisis is testing Tunisia’s political divisions 

The US secretary of state’s Tunisia tweets
 
Hosts:
Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent, Vox
Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth), senior foreign editor, Vox
Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1), foreign and national security reporter, Vox
 
Consider contributing to Vox:
If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox:
bit.ly/givepodcasts
More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Today, Explained, Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
About Vox:
Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.
Follow us:
Vox.com
Newsletter: Vox Sentences
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trouble in Tunisia

Zack Beauchamp, Jenn Williams, and Jen Kirby discuss the explosive revelations that a number of governments around the world, from Saudi Arabia to Hungary to India, have been using military-grade spyware made by an Israeli firm to secretly hack into the phones of journalists, activists, and political opponents. They explore what we know about the NSO Group, the Israeli company who sold this software; what the technology does; how governments may have used it to spy on critics; and what all of this tells us about the rise of digital authoritarianism.

References:

The Pegasus Project uncovers the potential abuse of NSO Group spyware

The major takeaways from the investigation, according to the Washington Post 

And the revelations keep on coming

Hungarian journalists had spyware on their phones

And so did a top rival of India’s prime minister

The Pegasus investigation puts Israel in an uncomfortable position

US and EU officials suspect links between NSO Group and Israeli intelligence

Israel’s defense ministry says “appropriate action” will be taken if NSO violated export permits

Steven Feldstein’s book, The Rise of Digital Repression (and listen to Zack’s interview!)

Israel considered using NSO Group to help track the coronavirus

Hosts:
Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent, Vox
Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth), senior foreign editor, Vox
Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1), foreign and national security reporter, Vox
 
Consider contributing to Vox:
If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox:
bit.ly/givepodcasts
More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Today, Explained, Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
About Vox:
Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.
Follow us:
Vox.com
Newsletter: Vox Sentences
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

iSpy

Worldly guest co-host Jen Kirby talks to Michael Bustamante, professor of Latin American history at Florida International University and the author of Cuban Memory Wars: Retrospective Politics in Revolution and Exile (2021), about Cuba’s recent protests, the largest in decades. They discuss the origins of the current crisis and what it means for thousands of Cubans to take to the streets to resist the country’s regime. They also talk about the US-Cuba relationship and how the US should — and shouldn’t — respond.

References:

Here’s why Cubans are protesting.

This is a brief explainer on Cuba’s currency devaluation.

Vox wrote about the Biden administration’s Cuba dilemma.

You can find Bustamante’s latest book on Cubans’ memories of the revolution here.

Learn about the artists behind the song “Patria y Vida.” (And listen to the song here!)

Hosts:
Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent, Vox
Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth), senior foreign editor, Vox
Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1), foreign and national security reporter, Vox
 
Consider contributing to Vox:
If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox:
bit.ly/givepodcasts
More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Today, Explained, Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
About Vox:
Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.
Follow us:
Vox.com
Newsletter: Vox Sentences
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The future of the US-Saudi relationship (ft. Sen. Chris Murphy)

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