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The Game of Product, Choosing How You Play It, and Resolving the Creative Tension Between PM and Design w/ Derlen Chiu, VP of Product at April EP 106
Who drives the product team? It shouldn't always be the Product Manager.
On #wayofproduct this week, Derlen Chiu shares his perspective on resolving the creative tension between cross-functional team members.
It's no secret that PM and PD have an industry-wide tension. We break that down in this episode.
Highlights include:
⭐ Why focusing too much on the job title blocks good work, especially in a startup, and why Derlen doesn't enforce "staying in your lane" with his team.
⭐ How to decide when PM, PD, and Engineering should take the driver's seat in a project.
⭐ How Dungeons and Dragons is a great metaphor for a well-balanced team. Trust me; it will make sense when you listen to it.
⭐ Derlens Take on Developing a Product Strategy by Thinking in Games.
Plus, much more!
Listen to Derlen's Interview on...
🎧 Apple Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/ghs99F-G
🎧 Spotify - https://lnkd.in/g2YU_eX4
🎧 Google Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/gaXS6i_4
🎧 Audible - https://lnkd.in/gy5EWw-r
📺 Watch clips on YouTube - https://lnkd.in/g-UVCNrN
📲 Watch Episode Clips on TikTok - https://lnkd.in/gaEgR-ws
📲 Watch Episode Clips on X - https://lnkd.in/gSTC5SRU
📸 Follow me on Instagram - https://lnkd.in/gEzmaFS4
Who is Derlen Chiu?
Derlen is a VP of Product at April, a tax software made for accounting agencies but designed to provide an amazing end-customer experience.
Before April, Derlen was part of the financial services industry, where he eventually began working in products at places like Plaid!
Interesting Fact: He also maintains a 14-year-old blog on the soccer business at TheSoccerCEO.com!
Don't forget to subscribe to the LinkedIn page The Way of Product | A Podcast on Product Team Collaboration for clips, new releases, and updates!
Connect with Derlen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derlen/
Follow April: https://www.linkedin.com/company/apriltax/
02:04 Guest's Journey from Finance to Tech
04:30 Understanding the Role of Product Management
07:54 The Importance of Defining the Game in Product Management
10:21 The Role of Strategy in Product Management
18:20 Resolving Creative Tension in Product Teams
20:03 Incorporating Subject Matter Experts in Product Design
22:28 Practical Example: Automating Payments in Agriculture
23:25 The Role of Product Managers
23:57 Driving the Tax Filing Product
24:55 Balancing Roles in Product Development
25:18 Switching Drivers in Product Management
26:04 The Game Metaphor in Product Management
26:34 Understanding the Role in the Game
26:38 Tracking Product Development
27:57 The Role of Design in Product Success
28:47 The Marty Cagan Model
29:31 Understanding When to Drive as a Designer
31:13 The Game of Product Management
31:58 The Challenge of Entering the Tax Market
32:44 The Strategic Challenge in Product Design
33:46 The Role of User Experience in Product Success
38:00 The Importance of Building Relationships in Agriculture
42:04 Closing Thoughts on Product and Design Partnership
42:49 Final Words and Sign Off
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com
View all episodes
By Caden Damiano
4
77 ratings
Who drives the product team? It shouldn't always be the Product Manager.
On #wayofproduct this week, Derlen Chiu shares his perspective on resolving the creative tension between cross-functional team members.
It's no secret that PM and PD have an industry-wide tension. We break that down in this episode.
Highlights include:
⭐ Why focusing too much on the job title blocks good work, especially in a startup, and why Derlen doesn't enforce "staying in your lane" with his team.
⭐ How to decide when PM, PD, and Engineering should take the driver's seat in a project.
⭐ How Dungeons and Dragons is a great metaphor for a well-balanced team. Trust me; it will make sense when you listen to it.
⭐ Derlens Take on Developing a Product Strategy by Thinking in Games.
Plus, much more!
Listen to Derlen's Interview on...
🎧 Apple Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/ghs99F-G
🎧 Spotify - https://lnkd.in/g2YU_eX4
🎧 Google Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/gaXS6i_4
🎧 Audible - https://lnkd.in/gy5EWw-r
📺 Watch clips on YouTube - https://lnkd.in/g-UVCNrN
📲 Watch Episode Clips on TikTok - https://lnkd.in/gaEgR-ws
📲 Watch Episode Clips on X - https://lnkd.in/gSTC5SRU
📸 Follow me on Instagram - https://lnkd.in/gEzmaFS4
Who is Derlen Chiu?
Derlen is a VP of Product at April, a tax software made for accounting agencies but designed to provide an amazing end-customer experience.
Before April, Derlen was part of the financial services industry, where he eventually began working in products at places like Plaid!
Interesting Fact: He also maintains a 14-year-old blog on the soccer business at TheSoccerCEO.com!
Don't forget to subscribe to the LinkedIn page The Way of Product | A Podcast on Product Team Collaboration for clips, new releases, and updates!
Connect with Derlen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derlen/
Follow April: https://www.linkedin.com/company/apriltax/
02:04 Guest's Journey from Finance to Tech
04:30 Understanding the Role of Product Management
07:54 The Importance of Defining the Game in Product Management
10:21 The Role of Strategy in Product Management
18:20 Resolving Creative Tension in Product Teams
20:03 Incorporating Subject Matter Experts in Product Design
22:28 Practical Example: Automating Payments in Agriculture
23:25 The Role of Product Managers
23:57 Driving the Tax Filing Product
24:55 Balancing Roles in Product Development
25:18 Switching Drivers in Product Management
26:04 The Game Metaphor in Product Management
26:34 Understanding the Role in the Game
26:38 Tracking Product Development
27:57 The Role of Design in Product Success
28:47 The Marty Cagan Model
29:31 Understanding When to Drive as a Designer
31:13 The Game of Product Management
31:58 The Challenge of Entering the Tax Market
32:44 The Strategic Challenge in Product Design
33:46 The Role of User Experience in Product Success
38:00 The Importance of Building Relationships in Agriculture
42:04 Closing Thoughts on Product and Design Partnership
42:49 Final Words and Sign Off
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com
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