Design Better

This episode continues our special series recorded live at the Creative Leadership Retreat in Sonoma, which we co-hosted with our friends at September Works in late September. We gathered 40 leaders from design, business, and the arts for two days around the theme of coalition building.

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We’re skipping around a little bit as we air these episodes —Lucy McRae was our final guest. She calls herself a body architect, and she spends her days getting scientists, artists, and designers to work together. She led far-future research at Philips, and has worked in Hollywood writers’ rooms including Blade Runner 2099. Her work looks at technologies that bring as much terror as hope, like genetic engineering and growing children outside the womb. She makes them feel familiar by building them from soft, everyday materials such as jelly, textiles, and her own body. The night before this conversation, we screened two of her films.

Aarron and I asked where her lived-in, retro-futurist aesthetic comes from, and how she orchestrates costume, choreography, camera, and music in a film. She told us she used to bring collaborators in too late, and how changing that improved her work.

Our guests asked how she decides what to pull from real science, and where to push into fantasy. A former Philips colleague asked how to convince an organization to invest in speculative, provocative work. Others asked how 14 years of classical ballet shaped her process, and which company’s patent library she’d raid if she could. We also talked about her research process, the sci-fi she keeps coming back to, and how growing up with a math and art teacher made her a polymath.

This series is presented in partnership with September Works, a product design studio. They envision, evolve, and reinvent digital products. Learn more at september.works or reach them at [email protected].

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This episode kicks off a special series recorded live at our Creative Leadership Retreat in Sonoma, which we co-hosted with our friends at September Works in late September. We gathered 40 leaders from design, business, the arts, and politics for two days around the theme of coalition building.

Our first guest is Paul Dichter, who first came on Design Better for Episode 173 this past Spring. Most of us think of a coalition as something you build once. Paul had to keep one alive for a decade. He joined the Stranger Things writers’ room as a writer’s assistant in season one and left as co-executive producer at the finale, writing three of the show’s most memorable episodes along the way.

We asked Paul what he learned about moving ideas forward as a junior writer, before he had the authority to push them, and how conflict over creative direction gets sorted out. He tells the story of the final season, months of arguing and pitching under the weight of ten years of work, and a fanbase waiting for the ending.

Then the audience took over. Attendees, many of them leading creative teams of their own, asked what you do when a team loses its mojo and how you rally it back. They asked which personality types flourish in a collaborative room, and how you build alignment when there’s no clear user to test against.

They also asked how he sells a creative idea to people on the other side of the table, and how he made peace with the show ending after investing so much of himself in it.

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This series is presented in partnership with September Works, a product design studio. They envision, evolve, and reinvent digital products. Learn more at september.works or reach them at [email protected].

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For eleven years, Maurice Cherry made a weekly podcast called Revision Path showcasing Black designers from around the world. He recorded more than 500 episodes with designers on six continents and built a community around the show.

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In 2019, the Smithsonian’s National Museum of African American History and Culture added eleven episodes to its permanent archives. And in 2025 the Eames Institute named him to its Curious 100.

Maurice never went to design school. He wanted to study English, but a STEM scholarship put him in computer science at Morehouse, where an advisor tol him the internet was a fad. He switched to math, graduated a semester early, and taught himself Photoshop from books he read in the aisles of a nearby Barnes & Noble. Years later, he was running his own studio with real clients and a payroll, and people still told him he wasn’t a real designer. So in 2013 he started Revision Path to show the work Black designers were doing.

We talk about growing up in Selma, Alabama, where civil rights history is part of the everyday landscape; what a math degree taught him about solving problems; and why Revision Path ultimately ended. Maurice explains how AI is speeding up problems the design industry always had, including the shrinking junior role, and argues that the modern designer has outgrown traditional design organizations.

Bio

Maurice Cherry is a designer, podcast producer, and commercial voice actor. From 2013 to 2024, he hosted Revision Path, a weekly podcast featuring Black designers from around the world. Eleven episodes are in the permanent archives of the Smithsonian’s National Museum of African American History and Culture. He also founded the Black Weblog Awards and ran the design studio Lunch. A math graduate of Morehouse College, he was named to the Eames Institute’s Curious 100 in 2025. Today he consults on podcasts and writes essays at mauricecherry.com.

Show notes

Books & Publications

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Tom Foley didn’t set out to design typefaces. As a postgraduate student at Central Saint Martins in London, he was researching why Ireland, unlike Switzerland, the Netherlands, or Germany, never seemed to have a confident typographic voice of its own.

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The answer led him through centuries of colonial history, to a so-called “Irish type” invented during the Reformation to make printed scripture look the way outsiders thought Irish readers would want it to look, and back further still, to fifth-century monks who may have given us the first true lowercase letters and the word space. The best response to that research, Tom realized, was a typeface. He called it Nib, and it now lives on Dublin’s heritage plaques.

That mix of deep research and hands-on craft has defined his career since. Tom worked on the first phase of Netflix Sans, a typeface you may see every day and probably never notice. At Monotype, he rose to Executive Creative Director and led custom work like the National Portrait Gallery’s contemporary serif. This year he walked away from that role to become Creative Type Director at Studio DRAMA, because he wanted to get back to making type.

We talk about how cultural context shapes letterforms, how to balance heritage with something that feels modern, and Tom’s practical framework for pairing typefaces, which starts with calligraphic roots and vertical metrics rather than vibes. We also get into why he left a prestigious executive role, how a childhood struggle with reading may have sharpened his eye for letters, and the books and typefaces he thinks every designer should know.

Bio

Tom Foley is Creative Type Director at Studio DRAMA in London, where he designs custom typefaces for brands. He was previously Executive Creative Director at Monotype, where his work included a custom serif for the National Portrait Gallery and his typeface Cotford. Before that, he spent years at Dalton Maag, working on multi-script projects for Nokia and the first phase of Netflix Sans. Tom came to type design through research: his postgraduate thesis at Central Saint Martins on Irish typographic history produced Nib, the typeface now used on Dublin City Council’s heritage plaques.

Short version: Tom Foley is Creative Type Director at Studio DRAMA in London and former Executive Creative Director at Monotype. His work spans custom typefaces for Netflix, Nokia, and the National Portrait Gallery.

Links:

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Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide.

We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community.

And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes.

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Kevin Flores has been part of the Design Better community for years — we first met him in 2017, while he was leading design at 23andMe, back when we were researching how design teams are structured for the Design Genome Project. So it’s a real pleasure to finally have him on the show to talk about his new book, Find Your Inner Rebel.

Find bonus content and more on our Substack:

The book is built around what Kevin calls his punk rock formula for career reinvention: resistance plus resilience equals reinvention. But don’t mistake the attitude for advice to quit your job. Kevin is candid that sometimes the smartest move is to hunker down, keep working toward change from where you are, and be ready when it comes, whether you choose it or it’s chosen for you.

Get the book

We talk about why strong generalists struggle to get hired (and how to fix it), why your personal brand matters more than ever when you’re competing against hundreds of applicants, and a simple test for your portfolio’s opening statement: swap in someone else’s name and photo and see if it still works.

As Kevin puts it, “you are the unique thing in the equation.” We also get into misalignment burnout, why designers should look beyond big tech to places like local government, and servant leadership.

Bio

Kevin Flores is a design leader, mentor, and author of Find Your Inner Rebel. He has built and led product and design teams in every work environment: agency, freelance, startup, and mid-to-large companies, including Verizon, 23andMe, and LinkedIn. He and his wife Jeanine met as design undergraduates at the University of Illinois and went on to co-found an interactive agency in Silicon Valley in the 1990s, and together they co-wrote the Design Career Handbook. Kevin spent six years as a mentor in First Round Capital’s Fast Track program, and serves as an industry advisor for design and user research for the Mission College Design and Diablo Valley College Digital Media joint advisory board. Learn more at innerrebelbook.com.

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In graduate school, Randy Hunt poured his heart and soul into a poster for Milton Glaser’s class, a picture built entirely from hand lettering that read as an image from across the room and as words up close. Glaser glanced at it, said, “Well, that’s not very good,” and moved on to the next student.

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Randy tells that story fondly. What stayed with him wasn’t the sting but the standard: keep the floor high, and the ceiling keeps rising. He carried that idea from Glaser’s studio, where he apprenticed, through a career leading design at Etsy, at Grab in Singapore, and until recently at Notion.

At Notion, that standard meant a design team smaller than anyone would expect, on purpose. Randy argues that limited bandwidth forces a company to prioritize, and that great people have little patience for what he calls “the work around the work.” The team doesn’t talk about titles or levels. Designers ship code in the production app, something Randy built teams around at Etsy in 2010, long before “design engineer” came back into fashion.

We also get into what he calls “whole design,” which means treating a push notification with the same care as the main dashboard. He explains why hotels and restaurants inspire him as much as any software, and traces that back to growing up near Disney’s carefully spaced trash cans in Orlando and to the bowl of fresh fruit that always sat in Glaser’s studio.

Bio

Randy J. Hunt is a designer, artist, and author based in New York City, with more than 20 years of experience building products, brands, and businesses. Most recently, he was Head of Design at Notion. He also chairs the MFA Design program at the School of Visual Arts, a graduate program focused on entrepreneurial designers. Earlier, he led design at Etsy, Artsy, and Grab, co-founded the designer-made marketplace Supermarket, and served as Chief Product Officer at the coffee-tech company Morning. He apprenticed at Milton Glaser's studio, founded the design studio Citizen Scholar, and wrote Product Design for the Web (New Riders, 2013).

Books & Links

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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get 4 ad-free episodes per month. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit:

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Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide.

We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community.

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When Aarron was fresh out of grad school, working at an agency outside Philadelphia, he and his coworkers used to crowd around a monitor to study volumeone.com. Most websites back then had a picture, maybe an image map. Matt Owens’s site had 3D, animation, and experimental graphic design, and none of us could figure out how he made it.

Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/matt-owens-athletics-co-founder-on

Matt launched Volumeone.com in 1997, and it now sits in SFMOMA’s permanent collection. Before that, he was a skater and punk kid from Texas who ran a record label with his twin brother, then went to Cranbrook and landed in New York just as the web took off. In 2004, he and a few friends rented an old boxing gym in Williamsburg and kept the word on the door: Athletics. Today it’s a 30-person brand studio working with Google, IBM, Stripe, and Major League Soccer.

We talked with Matt about how punk rock taught him to start things without overthinking them, what designers lost when Flash died, and how Athletics grew from a punk house into a proper agency. He explains why he calls himself the studio’s most capable intern and still takes on projects of his own to keep his skills sharp.

We also get into how his team uses AI as one ingredient rather than the whole recipe, and why good creatives can smell polished slop. We wrap up with his book, A Visible Distance, and the rebel optimism he passes on to his students at SVA.

Bio

Matt Owens is co-founder and Chief Design and Innovation Officer at Athletics, a Brooklyn brand studio whose clients include Google, IBM, Stripe, Square, and Major League Soccer. He holds a BFA from UT Austin and an MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art. From 1997 to 2009 he self-published the experimental design quarterly Volumeone.com, now in SFMOMA’s permanent collection. He is the author of A Visible Distance: Craft, Creativity, and the Business of Design (Set Margins, 2024), teaches at the School of Visual Arts, and writes on Substack. He lives in Brooklyn with his family.

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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books.

New premium subscriber benefit:

⁠Get design and career support in Design Club⁠

Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide.

We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community.

And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes.

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Blaine Billingsley is a staff designer at OpenAI, and his path there was anything but a straight line. He studied music composition and comparative religion, played guitar in Texas for a living (he remembers checking his bank account, seeing seven dollars, and feeling pumped), then drove to San Francisco and took a data entry job at a startup.

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The engineers taught him to script his way through the work in a couple of hours, and he spent the rest of the day learning from them. From there he went on to companies big and small, including a long run on Gmail.

Blaine has an allergy to corporate jargon that we found interesting. He’s known amongst his colleagues for rewriting product specs to get absolute clarity on a project, and for raising his hand in meetings to ask, “what do we really mean by ‘create a command center for work’”.

We talk about why a design principle only helps if you could reasonably disagree with it, and his counterintuitive advice for working with a pushy PM: the best way to have influence is to be influenced.

Then we get into how design actually works inside OpenAI. Blaine walks us through what goes into an eval, and the product design plugin he built with one engineer, whose biggest fans turned out to be the PMs and engineers who were starved for a design partner.

Bio

Blaine Billingsley is a member of the design staff at OpenAI, where he works on making ChatGPT a daily tool for designers and built a product design plugin focused on translation workflows like image-to-code. Before OpenAI, he was a Product Design Architect at Slack and a Staff Experience Designer at YouTube, and earlier held design roles at Airbnb, where he created a system of Host Guides, and Google, where he worked on Inbox by Gmail.

He was also the sole designer at Pattern Technologies, an AI-powered sales startup acquired by Workday. Blaine studied music composition and comparative religion, played guitar professionally in Texas, and got his start in tech doing data entry at a San Francisco startup. He's known for his allergy to jargon, his love of a clear process, and his belief that a designer's job is to represent the user.

Books & links mentioned

Show notes

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Premium Episodes on Design Better

This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone.

New premium subscriber benefit:

Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide.

We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community.

And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes.

Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.

And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

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In the mid-1950s, North Carolina was one of the poorest states in the country. Its economy ran on tobacco, furniture, and textiles — all three in decline — and its universities were turning out talent that promptly left for somewhere with better jobs.

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Today the stretch of pine woods between Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill is the largest research park in the United States. The barcode came out of it. So did AZT, ultrasound, and AstroTurf.

Our guest Mack Paul spent years working out how that happened. He’s the co-author of Miracle Road, a history of Research Triangle Park (known as RTP) written with his father — a journalist — and built on about 160 interviews with the scientists, planners, and politicians who were there. It’s out October 6th.

Hundreds of research parks have been attempted, and most failed. RTP started later than Silicon Valley or Route 128, with no defense money, no entrepreneurial culture, and universities that were openly uneasy about mixing academia with industry. But it worked anyway.

Mack’s answer to why is not what you might expect. The park itself was almost an afterthought. What made it work was a set of long, unglamorous commitments: a governor who went industry hunting, a community college system that promised to train any company’s workers for free, and a decision about desegregation that made North Carolina a better bet than Virginia — which is a big part of why IBM came in 1965.

We talk about what made it take off, the challenges now as RTP tries to become something denser and less car-dependent, and what it takes to build a place people actually want to be. We also talk about what it’s like to write a book with your father.

Bio

Mack Paul is a founder of Morningstar Law Group in Raleigh, where he has spent 30 years on the legal and political machinery behind how places get built — zoning, land use, environmental permitting, public-private partnerships, and public financing for infrastructure, mostly on large mixed-use and urban infill projects in North Carolina’s Triangle region.

He’s a LEED Accredited Professional and served six years as the public member of the NC Building Code Council. He sits on the NC State Design Guild board, has advised the modernist preservation nonprofit US Modernist, helped organize the “Build Raleigh Better” symposium, and co-founded a development company aimed at raising design quality in the region. He teaches Real Estate Development Law at NC State.

Mack is the co-author, with his father, of Miracle Road: The Story of Research Triangle Park, published by Duke University Press.

***

Premium Episodes on Design Better

This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit:

Get design and career support in Design Club

Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide.

We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community.

And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes.

You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

Upgrade to paid

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When Samsung’s CEO asked Federico Casalegno to redesign the cameras on the company’s phones, Federico told him he was the wrong person for the job. He wasn’t an optical engineer. He didn’t understand cameras. What he understood was storytelling — and he pointed to the Lascaux caves in France, where people were marking walls twenty thousand years ago for the same reason we hold up our phones today: to capture a moment, and tell it to someone we love.

Find the full episode on our Substack:https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/federico-casalegno

That’s the kind of answer you get from a designer who arrived by way of studying human society. Federico is Head of Samsung’s Global Design Studios, with teams spread across San Francisco, Europe, and Seoul. Before that he spent two decades at MIT, where he co-founded the MIT Design Lab with Bill Mitchell, and before that he was a social scientist embedded with engineers and psychologists at Philips Design in the nineties — back when “cross-disciplinary” wasn’t yet a word anyone put on a job posting.

We talk about what that looks like in practice at the scale Samsung operates at. His team builds digital twins of human ears — thousands of 3D and 4D scans across real demographics — then simulates millions of variations to figure out how an earbud should fit. Then they strap the buds onto robots and make them run. Then they test with actual humans, because at some point a person still has to decide what “comfortable” means.

There’s a phrase Federico kept returning to: technology without humanity is merely perfection without purpose. The designer’s role is problem making first, problem solving later.

We also get into how critique works inside a company that speaks a dozen native languages, what he actually looks for when hiring, and the French philosopher who, at 102, looked at his calendar and said he was booked until next year.

Bio

Federico Casalegno is Executive Vice President at Samsung, where he leads product experience innovation across business units and heads the company’s Global Design Studios. Reporting directly to the CEO, he builds teams of designers, engineers, creative technologists, and strategists working on advanced design and next-generation experience planning. As head of design and AI, he established Samsung’s Computational Design function and leads digital transformation across the organization.

Before Samsung, Federico spent two decades at MIT, where he founded the MIT Design Lab and the MIT Mobile Experience Lab and taught at MIT and the MIT Media Lab, researching the intersection of design, AI, and emerging technology. He previously worked at Motorola and Philips Design, and holds a PhD in sociology from the Sorbonne.

***

Premium Episodes on Design Better⁠

This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit:

⁠Get design and career support in Design Club⁠

Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide.

We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community.

And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes.

Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.

And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

Upgrade to paid

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