The Gap

Episode Introduction - The Gap with Rachel Fox

Today’s conversation is one I am really excited about, because it goes straight to the heart of what The Gap is all about—not just saving for retirement someday, but helping working Americans stay financially stable today so they can actually get there.

I’m thrilled to welcome Rachel Fox to the podcast.

Rachel is a seasoned leader in the employee benefits space with more than 23 years of experience helping employers support their workforce in meaningful, practical ways. For the past four years, she has led sales and partnerships at Sunny Day Fund, an out-of-plan Emergency Savings Account—or ESA—provider that helps employers turn financial wellness from a concept into something employees can actually use when life happens.

Before joining Sunny Day Fund, Rachel spent nearly two decades running her own Aflac agency, where she consistently ranked among the top five district sales coordinators nationally—an achievement that speaks volumes about her leadership, her ability to build strong teams, and her deep understanding of what employees really need from their benefits. She also worked as a health broker, guiding employers through an increasingly complex benefits landscape and helping them make smart, people-focused decisions.

What I love about Rachel—and what you’ll hear loud and clear today—is her passion. She truly believes that emergency savings are a missing link in closing both the financial stress gap and the retirement savings gap. Because when employees don’t have a cushion for unexpected expenses, retirement savings is often the first thing to suffer.

Episode Description

A stronger retirement starts with steadier today money. That’s the core of our conversation with Rachel Fox, a veteran benefits leader who’s helping employers turn “financial wellness” into a real system: automated emergency savings that keep workers from raiding their 401(k)s when life hits. We dig into the data behind out-of-plan ESAs, why they reduce loans and hardships, and how smart design—balance-based incentives, payroll automation, and clear, inclusive communication—builds a durable first line of defense.

Rachel traces the human stories behind the metrics: employees one event away from catastrophe, HR teams overwhelmed by loan requests, and the relief that comes when a car repair or deposit is covered without penalties or taxes. She explains why ESAs act as an on-ramp to retirement, increasing participation and contributions by making long-term saving feel possible. We also unpack the limits of PLESAs under SECURE 2.0 and why employers prefer out-of-plan flexibility that avoids ERISA complexity and allows meaningful employer contributions.

Beyond the ledger, we connect financial stress to safety, focus, and retention. Rachel highlights a study of short-haul truckers showing an 87% drop in citations among ESA participants and shares how employers repurpose bonuses and underused budgets into savings multipliers. The takeaway is practical and hopeful: lead with systems, not lectures; make saving effortless; and let people save for both emergencies and aspirations so behavior sticks.

If you care about reducing 401(k) leakage, improving benefits ROI, and helping workers move from survival to stability to growth, this conversation maps the path. Subscribe, share with a colleague who owns benefits strategy, and leave a review with one change you’d make to your company’s savings design.

Guest Bio: Rachel Fox

Rachel Fox is a leader in the employee benefits space with 23 years of experience. For the past four years, she has led sales and partnerships at Sunny Day Fund, an out-of-plan Emergency Savings Account (ESA) provider that operationalizes financial wellness initiatives for workforces. Before joining Sunny Day Fund, Rachel spent nearly two decades running her own Aflac agency, where she consistently ranked a

What if the secret to building a truly successful retirement plan wasn’t about plan features at all—but about culture, intention, and the belief that employees deserve more than the bare minimum? In this episode of The Gap, host Shannon Edwards sits down with Nathan Helms, Controller at Balon Corporation, to explore what happens when a company decides that taking care of people is non-negotiable. With over sixty years of employee-first leadership behind them, Balon has created a retirement plan that has grown from 165 participants to more than 1,100—and Nathan shares firsthand how that transformation was built from the inside out.

Whether you're an employer, advisor, or benefits manager, this conversation gives you an inspiring, practical look at what it means to create real retirement readiness for real people. You’ll hear how intentional design, thoughtful communication, and a deep respect for a diverse workforce can change not only participation rates, but lives. This episode will challenge you, motivate you, and remind you exactly why your role in closing the retirement savings gap matters more than ever. Tune in—because this is what it looks like when an employer gets it right. 

In this episode, Shannon and Nathan Helms discuss: 

• Strategic plan design decisions that drive long-term employee retirement readiness
• Approaches employers use to boost participation and keep employees engaged
• Communication challenges in supporting diverse and multilingual workforces
• Policy and compliance barriers that impact employers’ ability to strengthen retirement benefits

Key Takeaways:

• Implementing automatic enrollment alongside consistent, in-person education sessions significantly increases participation and helps employees understand how to build long-term financial security.
• Designing a plan that combines open-architecture investments, a supportive match structure, and thoughtful guardrails reduces leakage, encourages higher contribution rates, and protects employees from self-sabotage.
• Providing multilingual materials and trusted, in-house translators ensures employees from diverse backgrounds fully understand the plan, leading to stronger engagement and remarkable individual success stories.
• Simplifying compliance correction processes and increasing safe harbor match flexibility would empower more employers to offer meaningful retirement benefits without being overwhelmed by regulatory complexity. 

"Do right by the employee, and they’ll do right by you. You’ll see a lot of success." — Nathan Helms

Connect with Nathan Helms:  

Website: https://www.balo

What if helping your employees achieve true retirement security came down to communication, clarity, and the courage to simplify? In this episode of The Gap, Shannon Edwards sits down with Marjorie Mann, Senior Counsel at NextEra Energy and current President of the American Retirement Association, for a candid conversation about what’s really working—and what still needs fixing—in America’s private retirement system. With decades of hands-on experience guiding one of the nation’s largest employers through complex plan design, compliance, and fiduciary oversight, Marjorie brings a unique, sponsor-side perspective that every advisor, benefits manager, and business owner can learn from.

If you’ve ever wondered how leading employers are navigating SECURE 2.0, boosting participation, and keeping employees engaged in their financial future, this episode will give you a front-row view. You’ll walk away with a deeper understanding of how policy meets practice—and what steps you can take to help your organization close the retirement savings gap once and for all. Because when employers lead with clarity and purpose, everyone wins.

In this episode, Shannon and Marjorie Mann discuss: 

• Evolving responsibilities of employers in strengthening retirement readiness
• Communication challenges in engaging diverse employee populations
• Legislative and regulatory changes shaping plan design and administration
• Collaboration across the retirement industry to drive education and innovation

Key Takeaways:

• Implementing automatic enrollment and simplified investment options, such as target-date funds, can significantly increase participation and improve long-term retirement outcomes for employees.
• Clear, consistent, and targeted communication across different employee demographics helps build trust, increase plan engagement, and prevent confusion about benefits.
• Reducing legislative and regulatory complexity is essential to encourage more small and midsize employers to adopt and maintain retirement plans.
• Collaboration between plan sponsors, advisors, and industry associations fosters shared learning, stronger advocacy, and better tools to close both the coverage and savings gaps. 

"Communication is what’s really important; if you become a trusted voice with employees, that goes a long way toward helping them recognize the opportunities that they have." — Marjorie Mann

Connect with Marjorie Mann:  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marjorie-mann-26803b1/

Connect with Sh

When most people think of actuaries, they picture spreadsheets and formulas—but behind the math are people who help businesses protect promises made to their employees.

In this episode of The Gap, Shannon Edwards sits down with two leaders shaping the future of retirement plan design and administration: Lynn Young, Partner at Pinnacle Plan Design, and Erin Russell, Co-President of Actuaries Unlimited, Inc. Both are seasoned actuaries who specialize in single-employer defined benefit and cash balance plans—and both are passionate about making these plans work better for employers, advisors, and participants alike.

Lynn and Erin pull back the curtain on what really drives success in complex retirement plan design: clear communication, proactive education, and collaboration between actuaries, advisors, and plan sponsors. They share how their firms have built strong internal cultures that value mentorship, work-life balance, and “homegrown” expertise—because the more educated and supported your team is, the better they can support clients.

Whether you’re an advisor helping your clients evaluate the right retirement strategy or a plan sponsor seeking to strengthen your company’s retirement offering, this episode offers real-world insights you can use immediately to build stronger, more sustainable plans.

In this episode, Shannon, Lynn, and Erin explore:

• Why strong advisor–actuary communication can make or break plan success
• How early, proactive education prevents costly surprises years down the road
• What “homegrown actuaries” can teach every firm about developing confident experts
• Why balance, flexibility, and mentorship are essential to long-term success in our industry

Key Takeaways for Plan Sponsors & Advisors:

✅ Clarity matters. The best-designed plan can still fail if clients and advisors don’t fully understand how contributions and funding rules work from day one.

✅ Partnership is powerful. Actuaries, TPAs, and advisors each bring unique perspectives—when they collaborate, everyone wins, especially participants.

✅

What if your money weren’t a source of stress, but instead a tool that gave you clarity and confidence about the future?

This episode invites you to rethink how you approach financial planning—not as a rigid checklist of savings and investments, but as a way to design the life you want. You’ll hear how simple shifts in perspective can help you uncover overlooked resources, make smarter decisions, and finally take the weight of financial chaos off your shoulders. If you’ve ever felt like you’re juggling too much and falling behind on preparing for the future, this conversation will give you practical ways to get back in control.

Our guest, Apryl Pope, is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ who serves as a personal CFO for high-achieving women. With over a decade of experience, she helps clients organize, automate, and simplify their financial lives so they can stop spinning their wheels and start building toward their goals. Her path into financial services was shaped by her own experience of financial disorganization, which gave her a deep empathy for the struggles many people face. Beyond her client work, Apryl has taught financial literacy in schools, served in the Peace Corps in South Africa, and held leadership roles in nonprofits and professional organizations. Her passion is not only about helping individuals secure their futures but also about creating a ripple effect of financial wellness that strengthens families, workplaces, and communities.

In this episode, Shannon and Apryl Pope discuss: 

• The importance of financial planning and literacy for individuals and families
• Challenges and gaps in retirement savings and access to financial resources
• The role of service, education, and mentorship in empowering communities
• Strategies for creating financial security and designing a meaningful life 

Key Takeaways:

• Getting organized financially—by securing insurance, estate documents, and a debt payoff plan—before a crisis hits can mean the difference between peace of mind and devastation when life throws unexpected challenges.
• Regularly reviewing overlooked assets like stock options or employee benefits can unlock life-changing opportunities, such as eliminating debt and freeing up income to build long-term financial security.
• Broadening your perspective on money through service, cultural exposure, or volunteering can reshape how you view wealth, teaching you to reduce stress by focusing on meaningful living instead of chasing arbitrary financial milestones.
• Rather than fixating on hitting a retirement number or age, you can design your next chapter around the lifestyle you want—then align your finances to make that vision possible, whether it means starting a business, traveling, or simply reducing expenses. 

"What I don’t want to do is send you home wit

You don’t need to be a finance expert to realize the stakes—your future depends on it.

In this compelling episode, we speak with Petros Koumantaros, Managing Director & CEO of Spectrum Pension Consultants, Co-Founder of the fintech company GROUPIRA, Financial Consultant at intellicents, volunteer financial literacy instructor at St. Joseph School, and a governing board member of Washington Saves. He also co-founded the Pano Koumantaros Cancer Research Fund, raising over $1.7 million in honor of his late father to support cancer research, care, and treatment. With over $9.2 billion in retirement assets under advisement and a hands-on approach to teaching the next generation, Petros is uniquely positioned at the intersection of billion-dollar policy advocacy and grassroots financial education.

Whether you're trying to improve retirement outcomes at work, teach your kids about money, or simply want more control over your financial future, this conversation will challenge the way you think. You’ll leave feeling inspired, empowered, and more informed about the systems that shape your savings, your security, and your legacy.

In this episode, Shannon and Petros Koumantaros discuss:

• The role of personal financial literacy in shaping long-term financial security
• Systemic challenges and solutions for improving retirement plan access
• The intersection of public policy, business, and advocacy in retirement savings
• Building a values-based legacy through education and professional service

Key Takeaways:

• Automated payroll deduction through workplace-based retirement plans significantly improves savings behavior, making it far more effective than voluntary, individual retirement account setup, especially for workers in underserved or small business environments.
• Financial literacy education, when made relatable and free from jargon, empowers even middle school students to grasp essential concepts like compound interest, budgeting, debt, and investing, demonstrating that early intervention can shape lifelong financial behaviors.
• The disparity in retirement plan access—88% among large employers versus just 58% among small employers—highlights a systemic gap that public programs like Washington Saves are attempting to close through mandatory state-sponsored auto-IRA programs.
• The student debt crisis, with average debt hovering around $40,000, compounds financial inequality by delaying asset accumulation and reducing opportunities for early investing, especially when basic financial education is missing from the school system.

"Retirement investing, specifically, is really not well-suited for speculation. We're not here to encourage people to be day traders. We're encouraging people to accumulate and save in a disciplined way." — Petros Koumantaros

Connect with Petros Koumantaros: 

Website: https://petros.us/

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/petrosk

Connect with Shannon:

If you think retirement planning is just about ticking boxes and meeting deadlines, you’re missing the bigger picture—and the real opportunity. In this episode, we sit down with industry heavyweights Will Hackler and Jason Grantz to explore how smart, intentional plan design can drive better outcomes not just for employers, but for the people who count on these plans to retire with dignity.

Will, the creator of the Integrated 401(k)™, brings decades of experience in aligning plan strategy with business goals. Jason, a nationally recognized consultant and author, specializes in turning retirement plan complexity into actionable best practices. Together, they bring clarity, candor, and a serious dose of strategy to a conversation every advisor and employer needs to hear.

This is your chance to cut through the noise, rethink your approach, and walk away with ideas you can use.

In this episode, Shannon, Will, and Jason discuss: 

• The evolving role of financial advisors and employers in shaping retirement outcomes
• Designing retirement plans that align with overall wealth-building goals
• Navigating compliance, automation, and fiduciary responsibilities in a shifting landscape
• The importance of collaboration and specialization in the retirement services ecosystem

Key Takeaways:

• Starting new 401(k) plans with automatic enrollment at 10% and building in auto-escalation not only aligns with Secure 2.0 mandates but has proven to be widely accepted by employers and highly effective in boosting long-term participant savings without resistance.
• Employers can significantly improve employee retirement outcomes—and capture tax advantages—by redirecting year-end bonuses into employer contributions, rather than distributing them as taxable cash payouts.
• Many of the most avoidable plan failures stem from not reading or adhering to the plan document, which is the legal and operational blueprint for the plan and must be regularly reviewed and followed.
• Financial advisors who lack deep retirement plan expertise are far better served—and will better serve their clients—by partnering with a specialized consultant or TPA rather than dabbling in plan design and administration, which can expose both parties to risk and subpar outcomes. 

"Someone at the company needs to take ownership in running the plan." — Will Hackler

"Retirement plans should be viewed as if they were machines. And if you don't maintain your machine, it will break." — Jason Grantz

Connect with Will Hackler and Jason Grantz: 

Website: https://integrated-pension.com/

Will’s Lin

Today on The Gap, we’re thrilled to welcome Amanda Iverson, a true leader in the retirement plan space. Amanda is the CEO and a partner at Pinnacle Plan Design, a firm known nationally for its defined benefit and cash balance expertise. She was also the 2024 President of The American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries (ASPPA), the nation’s largest organization representing Third Party Administration (TPA) professionals in the retirement plan services industry. Amanda is known for her thought leadership. She speaks at national conferences and has been widely published on topics ranging from firm management to HR best practices. She was a Tucson “40 Under 40” honoree. She is a champion for educating business owners as well as other TPA firms and financial advisors.

Please join me in welcoming a dynamic leader who is shaping the future of the retirement plan industry— and one of my best friends, also known as the other half of the dynamic duo, Shamanda.

In this episode, Shannon and Amanda Iverson discuss: 

• The evolving role of TPAs in retirement plan administration
• Education and advocacy in the retirement planning space
• The strategic use and understanding of cash balance and defined benefit plans
• Addressing the savings and coverage gaps in the American retirement system

Key Takeaways:

• Pinnacle Plan Design collaborates with over 45 Third Party Administrator (TPA) firms across the country by providing specialized actuarial services behind the scenes, allowing these smaller firms to offer complex retirement solutions like defined benefit and cash balance plans without having to employ in-house actuaries.
• Despite the common misconception that cash balance plans only benefit high-income business owners, these plans often provide increased contributions for rank-and-file employees and can significantly boost total retirement savings across an organization.
• Because cash balance plans offer guaranteed employer-funded benefits with a stable rate of return, they are especially valuable for employees who are unable to contribute on their own due to financial constraints like student loans or childcare costs.
• Pinnacle places a strong emphasis on education by hosting regular webinars, offering training sessions with both actuaries and non-actuaries, and breaking down complex technical language so TPAs, financial advisors, and employers can confidently understand and present defined benefit plans.

"I love the advocacy work and being able to help get our voice out there to address the gap that still exists and is improving every day." — Amanda Iverson

Connect with Amanda Iverson: 

Website: https://pinnacle-plan.com/

Email:

About Eric Dyson: Eric Dyson is a graduate of the United States Naval Academy. After graduation, he served for ten years as a highly decorated nuclear-trained submarine officer. Eric has been a professional in the financial services industry for over 30 years, serving ERISA plan sponsors for over 25 years. He is currently the Executive Director of 90 North Consulting, where he provides services including advisor and broker RFPs, fiduciary training, best practices audits, and adjunct committee membership. Eric is also the host of the Be More Than a Fiduciary Podcast and delivers keynotes focused on actionable lessons from ERISA litigation.

In this episode, Shannon and Eric Dyson discuss: 

• How courtroom experience informs fiduciary best practices
• Common governance pitfalls in retirement plan management
• Strategic approaches to advisor oversight and selection
• Educating fiduciaries to go beyond basic compliance

Key Takeaways:

• Many fiduciaries unknowingly increase legal exposure by using vague investment policy statements and recycling boilerplate meeting minutes, which courts interpret as a lack of real, documented process, even if good discussions occurred.
• Writing checks directly from the employer for plan services like recordkeeping, advisory, and audit, rather than using plan assets, can virtually eliminate scrutiny around fees and demonstrate clear fiduciary prudence, even if only done gradually.
• Due to increasing litigation around forfeiture usage, plan sponsors should not rely

About Will Hansen: Will Hansen is a recognized leader in advancing the private sector retirement system, with over a decade of experience in employee benefits. As Executive Director of the Plan Sponsor Council of America (PSCA), he oversees the strategy and operations of the 75-year-old organization, equipping retirement plan administrators with essential education, advocacy, and resources. In his role as Chief Government Affairs Officer for the American Retirement Association (ARA), Will spearheads legislative strategy and outreach for an organization representing 35,000 retirement plan professionals. Through his work with policymakers and stakeholders, he is driving efforts to expand retirement plan access and coverage, shaping a more secure financial future for millions of Americans.

In this episode, Shannon and Will Hansen discuss: 

• Addressing the U.S. retirement savings and coverage gap
• Legislative efforts to improve access to retirement plans
• The impact of financial literacy on retirement readiness
• Innovations in retirement plan design and accessibility 

Key Takeaways:

• Auto-enrollment and auto-escalation features have been proven to significantly boost retirement plan participation and savings, but their adoption remains uneven, with small businesses particularly lagging behind due to perceived implementation complexity.
• Recent legislative measures, such as pooled employer plans (PEPs) and the streamlined "Starter K" 401(k) plans, provide simpler, cost-effective solutions for small businesses to offer retirement benefits, often supported by tax incentives that encourage adoption.
• As gig economy workers make up a growing portion of the workforce, they remain underserved by traditional retirement plans, necessitating innovative solutions like government-supported savings initiatives tailored to their unique employment models.
• Despite the pressing need for financial wellness programs to address barriers like debt and poor financial literacy, fewer than 40% of employers offer these programs, highlighting a significant opportunity to educate employees and improve retirement outcomes. 

"More Americans have joined the gig economy, which is one area where I think there is definitely room for improvement, and we could even see some federal assistance in setting something up to encourage more gig workers to save for retirement." — Will Hansen

Connect with Will Hansen:  

Email: [email protected]

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hansenw/

Connect