The Glimmer Podcast

Ann-maree Imrie joins Dr Ashleigh Smith and The Glimmer Podcast today as someone who knows the struggle of pregnancy-after-loss – also known as a ‘rainbow pregnancy’ or ‘rainbow baby.’ She is a Social Worker trained in grief and mother to Xavier who is her first child. He was stillborn in 2015 and Ann-maree has since gone on to have 2 subsequent rainbow babies named Kai and Jesse. 

Discussing the recent 6th anniversary of Xavier, the pair reflect on stillbirth and neonatal loss and where is fits into the narrative of their life and how they each grapple with the existential ‘why’ and ‘why this baby’. Ann-maree still sometimes feels that it was surreal to have experienced such a loss and reports feeling like out-of-body or living in an alternate reality. How over time, the episodes of deep grief of Xaviers death has moved from the initial grief that felt like it was not survivable, to now noticing that it doesn’t last as long and knows these intense feelings will ease. She focuses on nourishing her own heart during these times. She speaks of how Christmas is a difficult time and this year with school term commencing, it brought up the deep grief of Xaviers loss so acutely as it would have been his Year 1. 

Ashleigh asks at what point did Ann-Maree start thinking about trying to conceive after Xavier and what emotions and thoughts ran through her mind? They then go on to discuss how each trimester of pregnancy felt different and brought different challenges. How ‘Pregnancy after loss’ is isolating in that you don't feel you 'fit in' with other pregnant mum's who have never experienced loss. How difficult it is to ‘bond’ with the baby inside and the feelings of not trusting your own body.

When the pair turn to discussing the birth of her second child who was alive and well, Ann-Maree expresses the deep grief as she realized what she had missed out on with Xavier. She then goes on to discuss how her 3rd pregnancy was different again and how at 29 weeks (the same gestation as Xavier was when she discovered no heartbeat), Ann-Maree suffered a terrible scare that brought up feelings of PTSD, grief and panic that paved the way for a difficult and awful trajectory for the remainder of her pregnancy. Her mantra that she used in both pregnancies was ‘Right now, in this moment, to the best of my knowledge, everything is fine.’ Ashleigh explains how mindfulness meditation has greatly helped in her current pregnancy. 

Finally, Ann-Maree discusses the human spirit as the driving force that has given her strength and courage to face the challenges and pain she has endured in this life. Through Ann-Marie's life changing experience of parenting Xavier she has published a children’s book for bereaved families to read to the baby who lives in their heart. She has also now found her passion – The Baby Loss Project – An online training program that up skills employers to create policy, and respond proactively to pregnancy loss, stillbirth and infant death.

 
 Links:
 https://www.theglimmerproject.com/ 
https://bluehearts.com.au/the-cause.html   
https://stillbirthfoundation.org.au/
https://www.babylossproject.com/

 Special thank you to:
 - Corey Green (podcast editor - Transducer Audio), 
 - Coby Grant (Winter Bear backing sound track), 
 - Holly Ryan (Producer), 
 - Blue Hearts and the Stillbirth Foundation. 

Mitchell Delamotte joins Glimmer today to offer a ‘fathers perspective’ on pregnancy loss - an important and lesser-discussed experience. In this episode. Mitch explains how his daughter Pia’s stillbirth 4 years ago has shaped and altered his life. 

Dr Ashleigh Smith asks about the early days after losing Pia, what the most difficult moments were, how his gender and parenting role coloured his experience, and how he managed his grief. Mitch opens up about running, fundraising for the Stillbirth Foundation, communicating with other men, the workforce and his experience with depression. He talks about tips for acknowledging your feelings, utilizing a therapist and the benefits of exercise. Mitch talks about running half marathons and fundraising, how running has many benefits – goal setting, role modeling for his son, endorphin release, distraction and exercise. He explains that soon after Pia’s stillbirth, he could only run for 18 minutes and now can run for over 3 hours. 

The two discuss an email correspondence referencing the 4 year anniversary for Pia – Mitch had written in the email “it's starting to be a weird anniversary where there is a lot less grief than previous years, It's obviously not a celebration, but we cut cake like it would be. I don’t know if the English language has an appropriate word for what today feels like for myself, if there is, I certainly don't know it.” 

Finally, Mitch offers a glimmer of hope and piece of wisdom to the listener who may be early on in the loss of his baby. This episode is made specifically for fathers, who have experienced pregnancy loss, and we wish a special message to say Happy fathers day to all the Dad’s listening – you are not alone and I’m sorry this is such a difficult time. 

Links: 
https://www.theglimmerproject.com/ 
https://bluehearts.com.au/the-cause.html 
https://stillbirthfoundation.org.au/

Special thank you to:
- Corey Green (podcast editor - Transducer Audio), 
- Coby Grant (Winter Bear backing sound track), 
- Holly Ryan (Producer), 
- Blue Hearts and the Stillbirth Foundation. 

In the Season finale of The Glimmer Podcast, Dr Ashleigh Smith interviews Senator Kristina Keneally about her life after losing her daughter Caroline through stillbirth, political activism and spearheading the Stillbirth Inquiry. The 2018 Senate Inquiry into stillbirth has resulted in greater government funding toward research and bereavement support for affected families.  

Senator Keneally explains how 20 years ago (when her daughter Caroline passed away) there was no internet, no support groups, no podcasts and the stillbirth foundation didn’t exist. She remembers feeling isolated and unable to connect with others. She talks about arranging Caroline’s funeral and leaning on her faith and the structure of the church. Kristina explains that she doesn’t believe that God medals in our lives and earthly existence in specific ways, and while initially feeling angry with God she has been able to make peace with her religion and its role in her life. She has a background in feminist theology and feels that if God is a woman, she is also a woman who has lost her only child. Senator Keneally speaks about the intersection of faith and loss – the anger and the solace. 

Kristina says that her life trajectory was altered because of Caroline’s stillbirth and that it has made her fearless. The two discuss the difference between fearlessness and apathy and ponder how those feelings evolve over time. Kristina believes that reproduction and the challenges that women face along the way are often misunderstood– she believes these challenges give strength to women that is underestimated. 

They discuss the Senate Inquiry and what it was like hearing from parents, researchers and clinicians. Senator Keneally recounts the range of emotions she felt from reading the personal accounts and impact statements that hundreds of families submitted. She describes initially feeling distraught but was later moved to anger.  She felt that the hearings became quite personal and emotional. 

Finally, the women discuss the future for stillbirth prevention. Senator Keneally explains that an airline tells all passengers what to do if the worst should happen – should we be educating all pregnant women about management of pregnancy loss? 

Links: 

www.theglimmerproject.com 

https://www.stillbirthcre.org.au/assets/Uploads/Stillbirth-Action-and-Implementation-Plan-draft-25Feb20.pdf

https://www.stillbirthcre.org.au/assets/Uploads/Informing-the-Stillbirth-National-Action-Plan-DRAFT.pdf

https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=LNW

During this episode of The Glimmer Podcast, Dr Ashleigh Smith (founder of The Glimmer Project and 3 week online Glimmer program for women who have experienced stillbirth or neonatal loss) interviews Claire Storey - a board member for the International Stillbirth Alliance (ISA). 

The ISA exists to promote global collaboration in the prevention and provision of appropriate care for families after stillbirth and neonatal death. It aspires to achieve this through public awareness initiatives, community engagement, development and promotion of best clinical practice standards and facilitating high quality collaborative research. 

Claire discusses her personal experience of baby loss and becoming a UK SANDS Chairperson (stillbirth and neonatal death society), attending ISA conferences and eventual involvement with the ISA as board member. She explains the integration of stillbirth into the UN Millennial development goals and ending preventable stillbirth scorecard. She discusses the triple return on investment when health is prioritized for the woman/mother. She explains raising the parent voices initiative, advocacy and work in India and Ghana. 

Discussion moves to the ‘Ending Preventable Stillbirths’ series and the estimated annual 2.6 million stillbirths. According to the data, 98% of stillbirths occur in low- and middle-income countries and therefore the ISA has turned it’s attention to addressing this devastating figure. Claire explains various funding models, recruiting and managing volunteers, sponsoring parents to attend conferences (especially from low and middle income countries) and the need for translators when working within an international organization. 

Claire explains the integration of reducing neonatal death into the ISA mission and how this goes hand-in-hand with stillbirth interventions. Finally, Dr Ashleigh Smith asks Claire how people can be involved and contribute to the goals of the ISA. Claire lists a multitude of options including donation, spreading and sharing the social media posts and organizations initiatives, offering expertize such as legal, IT, HR, communications etc, joining a working group and applying to the Board. 

This interview gives hope to the millions of families affected by baby loss every year. The ISA is an incredible organization working to make this world a better place. 

Links: 

www.theglimmerproject.com 

https://www.stillbirthalliance.org/

https://www.stillbirthcre.org.au/education-and-grants/improve-workshops/

Zelda Language is a Counselling Psychologist in South Africa. She has many years of experience and is currently in the process of establishing a Wellness Centre for families who have suffered pregnancy or infant loss named the Manaheim Healing centre. Dr Ashleigh Smith (creator of The Glimmer Project and 3 week online Program) interviews Zelda and they initially discuss Covid19 restrictions in South Africa and the associated sadness, isolation, unemployment and grief). Zelda opens up about her personal experience with pregnancy and newborn loss and how that left her feeling lonely – especially as a psychologist. She found people were aloof. She discusses ‘Compassionate Friends,’ ‘Voice of the unknown baby’ and the importance of specialized perinatal bereavement care. She explains how she performs hospital visits to loss parents and assists with photos and ‘walks the path’ with them. Zelda raises the issue of early and over-prescription of antidepressants in perinatal grief after miscarriage, stillbirth or newborn death. She explains how the mother or fathers personalities may impact the grieving process and relationships after baby loss, and a lack of communication can lead to a marriage breakup. She discusses the impact on the ‘fathers’ and the importance of no just trying to ‘fix’ grief but allow the grieving parents to just ‘be.’ She differentiates suicidality with expressions of unmanageable grief and strong yearnings to be with your child. Zelda talks about the self guilt of ‘what did I do wrong’ and natural desire to blame someone for the trauma. She talks about the feelings of turmoil and ‘letting down’ ones partner and trying to not let your emotions control you. The 2 women discuss the feeling of not having a baby physically in their arms and an almost ‘withdrawl syndrome’ associated with that. Zelda discusses the impact on the grandparents, siblings and the feeling of not wanting to cry in front of living siblings – and how to navigate this to establish healthy emotional expression. 

Zelda advises for family members to write a letter to the child that has passed on, light a candle and have a balloon carry off the letter in a ceremony of healing. Finally, Zelda explains her vision for the Mannaheim Healing center and how to contact her for further inquiries. 

Links: 

www.theglimmerproject.com 

www.mannaheim.co.za

This episode begins with the difficult journey travelled by Jenn Hepton – an incredible and resilient woman who has experienced more heartache then many people could ever imagine. If you are feeling fragile today and worry that hearing stories of loss are too painful and raw for you at this time – please skip forward in the episode approximately 20 minutes. 

In this episode, Dr Ashleigh Smith discusses ‘the motherhood journey’ - all the highs and lows, challenges and triumphs that go along with fertility and parenting. Jenn Hepton, is a certified Grief, Life and Conscious Parenting Coach who uses NEUROSCIENCE + MINDFULNESS to assist parents to heal after loss and help them to live from a place of strength, consciousness, and empowerment. Jenn suffered the loss of her daughter, Loey, at 39 weeks in 2018, twins at 22 weeks in 2013 and years of infertility, miscarriages, a blood clot and eventual diagnosis of an autoimmune disorder. She felt that after losing Loey, her soul was ripped into a million pieces. 

Jenn felt she was in the middle of a breakdown, in the depths of PTSD and stuck in limiting beliefs and experiencing a lot of trauma. Jenn and her husband subsequently used a surrogate and now have a baby boy, Milo. It has been a long and tumultuous journey. Jenn has recently made the move from running a group coaching for pregnancy related grief to developing a conscious parenting online program. She shares her reproductive journey and what is involved with her grief group coaching. 

Jenn discusses the baby ‘Psychic’ Jessica McKeown and how she contributes to the grief journey for some women. The love story between Jen and Milo and how she felt when she got to hold him for the first time is so beautiful and heart warming.   

Websites: 

www.theglimmerproject.com

https://www.theglimmerproject.com/products/110714-The-3-week-Glimmer-Program

https://www.lossintransition.com/about-jenn

Dr Ashleigh Smith interviews Annabel Bower – author of the heartfelt book ‘Miles Apart’ which aims to support mothers navigating grief after the loss of a baby at any stage of pregnancy or infancy and gives practical and emotional advice on coping with the many challenges life after loss brings. Annabel has also launched a not-for-profit foundation to distribute donated copies of Miles Apart to hospitals around Australia and hopes the foundation will help raise awareness of the emotional impact of baby loss whilst also supporting those who endure it.

They discuss miscarriage, stillbirth, neonatal death and the process of grieving. They also discuss the ‘out of body experience’ in the hospital,’ ‘the evaporation of excitement and hope for the future of a shared life together with your baby.’ Such sentiments, Ashleigh acknowledges, are only understood by women who have lived and endured the agony of pregnancy/baby loss. 

Annabel explains ‘grief gas lighting’ – how you can do it to yourself or by another person. She opens up about how she felt when Miles’ due date approached and how people flock to pregnant women but avoid women after they have had a loss. 

She talks about the expectations and exhaustion of grief and that initially she couldn’t open up and talk about what had happened to Miles. Annabel discusses the responses she has been receiving to her book and the loneliness of loss and why we can feel just so isolated after the loss of a baby. She talks about adjusting to the new normal and coping with the ins and outs of your life when you're grieving the loss of your baby. 

Annabel writes about gritting her teeth when listening to other people trying to console her with platitudes or ‘at least’s’ – such as ‘at least you have other children’ and ‘at least you know you can get pregnant.’ Dr Ashleigh Smith explains how beneficial meditation has been for her grief and how it can help calm the mind and find peace amongst the ravages of grief. 

Finally, Annabel explains how someone can donate a ‘Miles Apart’ book to hospitals Australia wide. 

Links: 

www.theglimmerproject.com

https://www.milesapart.online/shop

This episode discusses grief after pregnancy loss, holding space, post-traumatic growth, liminal space and recommendations for further reading. Dr Ashleigh Smith interviews Heather plett - an expert on grief. Heather lost her mother in recent times and her son Matthew many years ago through stillbirth (she unfortunately had an incompetent cervix with subsequent cervical cerclage, ruptured membranes and intrauterine infection).

These events shaped her life and took her from a managerial job in Canada, to being an international speaker, coach, facilitator and author – she is currently launching a book called ‘Holding space’ – which was based on her wildly successful and viral blog post from 2015. 

Heather radiates a sense of peaceful wisdom and mutual understanding of grief and loss. 

She speaks about how losing Matthew informed and changed the trajectory of her life and that in time, she felt she became ‘seasoned’ in her grief – but it took 10 years. Heather sometimes calls her grief her ‘best friend’ – saying it has made her life full of richness. She is able to sit with other people through their grief and offers non-judgment and compassion. 

Heather defines holding space as being willing to walk alongside another person in whatever journey they’re on without judging them, making them feel inadequate, trying to fix them, or trying to impact the outcome.  She says, when we hold space for other people, we open our hearts, offer unconditional support, and let go of judgment and control.

Heather explains how her grief has changed over time and that after losing Matthew, she found a new sense of spirituality. She initially felt angry for errors in her medical care and suffered great restlessness, before eventually finding acceptance. Finally, Heather advises how the listener can move through their grief and hold space for themselves. 

Reminder: The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to the individual and do not represent their employer or medical advice. Always consult your doctor. 

Links:

www.theglimmerproject.com

https://heatherplett.com/tag/stillbirth/

https://heatherplett.com/2015/03/hold-space/

https://heatherplett.com/2019/06/hold-space-new-tips-four-years-viral-blog-post/

https://www.amazon.com.au/Falling-Upward-Spirituality-Halves-Life/dp/0470907754

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/promoting-hope-preventing-suicide/201705/ring-theory-helps-us-bring-comfort-in

The Glimmer Podcast is hosted by Dr Ashleigh Smith and interviews experts on managing pregnancy and newborn loss related grief. This week’s guest is Alana Sheeren. She is a multi-passionate creative who shows up in all her work with the aim of making the world a kinder, more compassionate place. Whether speaking about grief from the TEDx stage, or in her healing work with clients, she combines her training as a therapist and her intuitive abilities with a deep understanding of the human condition to help people create profound and lasting change in their lives. 

The interview opens talking about the famous TedX talk that Alana did about grief and the stillbirth of her son, Ben (which was almost 10 years ago). She talks about how grief has shaped her life. That grief can manifest by ‘coming out sideways’ and how she carried a ‘cave bag’ of journals, art supplies, candles and medicine cards. She advises the need to connect to your own body and notice the grief surfacing in different ways. She warns against getting trapped in a ‘story of shame or guilt or victimhood’ in relation to grief from pregnancy loss.

She talks about how life can be full of beauty and joy even amidst grief and loss and references her friend on the ‘an’ space. She encourages the listener to hold all of these emotions and give yourself permission to also see beauty. To not be trapped into the mindset of not allowing yourself to laugh or experience joy.

Alana talks about shame and guilt. Shame, she defines, is identifying ‘I am’ something shameful. Guilt, she defines, is identifying ‘I have done’ something to feel guilty about. She references other people and their opinions of what you ‘should’ and ‘shouldn’t’ be doing with your grief after pregnancy or newborn loss. Their judgments can be so hurtful.

Alana mentions a specific event where a circle leader told her about how she ‘should’ talk about Ben. She mentions the pain of secondary loss in addition to the primary loss of the child – that of friendships or marriage that doesn’t survive the death. 

Dr Ashleigh Smith and Alana talk about Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and how ‘meaning making’ was recently suggested as one of the grief stages.

Alana talks about Reiki and healing energy work and how she leaned and used it in her own, and others whole-self healing. She talks about a snow/sand analogy and how the energy in your body can hold onto trauma. 

Finally, Alana advises the listener to ask for help when you want it, but don’t feel like you have to ask for help if you don’t want it.

This is a magical interview full of heart-warming insights and wisdom from a fellow warrior mum, psychologist and healer.  

Links: 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/260931271717650

www.theglimmerproject.com

Find out more at AlanaSheeren.com or ListenCloselyFilm.com

Book mention: Men don’t cry, women do – transcending gender stereotypes in grief by Terry Martin and Kenneth Doka

Alana’s ted talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqX3Ygy8NOo

Today we welcome Julee Pinel – Psychologist and Mental Health Nurse with over 25 years experience. Julee’s son Andrew passed away when he was born at 22weeks and I thank Julee for devoting her career to helping people psychologically recover from similar tragedies, hardships and mental illness. She is a warrior mum like all of us listening to this podcast. On the show today, we discuss how Julee managed her grief after losing Andrew 27 years ago due to preterm labour and extreme prematurity. 

Julee explains how this coloured her practice and informed her management of other women grieving pregnancy loss - miscarriage, stillbirth and newborn death. She is heartfelt and warm in the way she discusses Andrew and the hardship she endured through returning to work within days of his passing. She explains how she ‘moved forward’ and went on to have 2 more children. 

We discuss the perinatal grief score and how it is difficult to find scoring systems to quantify grief because is such a subjective emotion. 

We discuss assessing patients -what's normal and what is abnormal or pathological (like anxiety/depression/PTSD or adjustment disorder). Julee explains why she doesn't think it is necessary for all bereaved mothers to seek grief counseling, and advises when it might be time or situations that need professional help. 

Julee explains how she practices holistic healthcare –incorporating advice about sleep, nutrition and exercise and mindfulness. She describes the importance of not just mind but also body health.  To wrap up, Julee offers psychological resources, help and advice to the woman listening – specifically about mindfulness and Dr Russ Harris on acceptance and commitment therapy. I hope you enjoy this heartwarming episode and find comfort in your grief after pregnancy loss.

Reminder: The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to the individual and do not represent their employer or medical advice. Always consult your doctor. 

Links:

www.theglimmerproject.com

https://www.actmindfully.com.au/free-stuff/free-audio/