The Good Divorce® Show

Divorce coach Kelly Myers knows what it looks like when the system fails families — because she lived it. When Kelly and her husband divorced in 2011–2012, their three boys were six, eight, and ten years old. What followed was two years of litigation and more than $100,000 in legal costs — a path she didn't fully understand she was choosing when she stepped into it.

In this candid and deeply personal conversation, Kelly shares how the "ecosystem of divorce" — mediators, attorneys, friends, and family — can fan the flames of conflict rather than help families restructure. Her mediator told her not to worry about financial inequities; her attorney didn't tell her that pursuing support modifications would reopen custody. The result: years of stress, resentment, and a version of herself she's not proud of — one who was yelling in the car on the way to her son's eighth-grade graduation, too overwhelmed to simply be present. 
        

Kelly reflects on the turning point that came when she stopped focusing on what was fair and started asking what was right for her kids. She and her co-parent Blake eventually built a respectful, collaborative relationship — one that was tested profoundly when their son Jack passed away in June 2024 after years of struggle with mental health and addiction. Rather than letting grief pull them apart, Kelly and Blake came together to plan Jack's service, support their surviving sons, and hold each other through unimaginable loss. That experience crystallized for Kelly why this work matters so much.

Now a certified divorce and co-parenting coach, Kelly helps clients understand the realities of the divorce system before they're swept into it — managing emotions outside of decision-making, building comprehensive parenting plans, and thinking about co-parenting not just as a legal arrangement but as a long-term business partnership in raising their children.

Key themes in this episode:

• How the divorce ecosystem — lawyers, mediators, social circles — shapes (and often inflames) outcomes
• Why litigation risks are rarely explained to clients up front
• The shift from "what's fair" to "what does my child's divorce story look like?"
• Viewing co-parenting as a business partnership, not a custody arrangement
• The difference between parenting 50% of the time and being a parent 100% of the time
• Repairing the relationship with your kids — and yourself — even after difficult chapters
• The gift of a co-parenting relationship strong enough to hold a family together through loss

Resources & Websites Mentioned:

• First Steps Divorce — Kelly Myers' coaching practice: firststepsdivorce.com
• The Good Divorce Podcast — hosted by Karen McNenny: karenmcnenny.com
• The Good Divorce by Karen McNenny — available wherever books are sold

On April 26th, 2024, an email arrived asking Karen if she'd ever thought about writing a book. Exactly two years later to the day, a box of 300 copies landed on her front porch.

In the final episode of this behind-the-scenes mini-series, Karen picks up where the manuscript ends and the movement begins. She talks about her first major book launch — a keynote for 250 HR professionals in her hometown — and why a room full of people who manage workplace breakups turned out to be exactly the right audience. She shares the moment she asked everyone touched by divorce to stand up, and how quickly almost the entire room was on its feet.

She also makes the case for why this book belongs in HR offices, therapists' waiting rooms, and the hands of anyone who has ever loved someone going through a divorce — which, it turns out, is most of us.

Karen also reads from the final chapter — The New — a quiet scene at a middle school choir concert where an offhand compliment from her ex-husband reminds her why they did all of this in the first place.

Pick up your copy of The Good Divorce at karenmcnenny.com/the-good-divorce.

She had a book deal. Now she had to write the book.

In Part 2 of this behind-the-scenes series, Karen walks through what it actually took to get The Good Divorce from outline to print — nine months of writing squeezed around a graduating son, a daughter heading to Europe, divorce clients, speaking gigs, and a single-income household with no one to walk the dog. She bought a van, hired back her ghostwriting team with money she didn't have, and spent the better part of three months writing from campgrounds across the Pacific Northwest.

Then came the restructuring. Two days over Thanksgiving, alone with her golden retriever Moab, Karen spread the entire manuscript across her kitchen counter and dining room table — color-coded, categorized, and cut apart — before putting it back together into something that finally made sense. Thirty percent didn't make the cut. What followed was twelve days of around-the-clock rewriting alongside her developmental editor in South Africa, a copy editor who found corrections on every page, a design team, and a managing editor in India keeping all the plates spinning toward a May 19th release date.

At the end of the show, Karen reads from Chapter Seven — The Community — on leaning into her people when the grief felt too big to carry alone, and the friend who gave her permission to stop pretending everything was bubbles and rainbows.

Part 3 is next: the book is written. Now she has to sell it.

🔖 Pick up your copy of The Good Divorce at karenmcnenny.com/the-good-divorce.

At 18, Karen McNenny wrote in a pageant essay that her greatest ambition was to write a bestselling book. She had no idea what it would be about. She certainly never guessed divorce.

In this first of three special episodes, Karen tells the origin story of The Good Divorce — from that Miss Montana essay to a publishing offer from Wiley/Jossey-Bass that arrived faster than anyone in the industry said it should. Along the way: a pandemic pivot, a stranger's persistent emails she almost ignored, two ghostwriters who flew to Missoula to squeeze her brain for two days, and a New York Times bestselling author who finally talked her off the ledge when the contract arrived and the reality of what she'd set in motion hit hard.

She also reads from Chapter Four, “The Kids,” on preparing to deliver the hardest lines of her life to an audience of two.

What happens when parents wait until the kids are grown to divorce — and then discover their adult children are not fine with it? In this rich and eye-opening conversation, Karen sits down with Dr. Carol Hughes, clinical psychologist, two-time Fulbright Scholar, and one of the true pioneers of the collaborative divorce movement, to challenge one of the most pervasive myths in divorce: that adult children don't need the same care and intentionality that minor children do.

Dr. Hughes shares the origin story of collaborative divorce — rooted in a single letter written on January 1, 1990 by Minnesota attorney Stu Webb, who declared he was "done going to court and destroying families" — and how that moment sparked a movement that has since trained over 25,000 collaborative professionals worldwide.

Together, Karen and Dr. Hughes explore:

• Loyalty binds — what they are, how they form, and why they damage children of all ages
• The five F's — fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and feign — and how our neurological wiring pulls us toward conflict when we feel unsafe
• Gray divorce — why divorce among adults 50 and older doubled between 1990 and 2012, and what research from Bowling Green State University predicts by 2030
• The biggest myth about adult children — why "they're adults, they can handle it" is not only wrong, but harmful
• Family before finances — why starting with the children, not the money, leads to better outcomes for everyone
• The "six-year-old within" — how adult children still carry the emotional vulnerability of their younger selves, even when they appear to be coping
• Creating a divorce story — how parents can paint a picture of the future that reduces fear and uncertainty for their children
• The statement of highest intentions — a collaborative divorce tool for helping couples get clear on what they actually want the process to look like
• Practical guidance for gray divorcing parents: how to involve adult children collaboratively in planning holidays, family gatherings, and transitions — without burdening them or writing them out of the story

Dr. Hughes also opens up about her own childhood experience of her parents' divorce — including a detail that will shock modern listeners — and how an unexpected phone call from a minor's counsel changed the entire direction of her career.

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• 📖 Dr. Carol Hughes' book: Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce— available at Barnes & Noble and all major booksellers
• 🌐 Dr. Hughes' divorce website: divorcepeacemaking.com
• ✍️ Dr. Hughes and Psychology Today: Visit Psychology Today's guest blog
• 📖 Karen's book: The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family
• 🎓 The Good Divorce Academy: Karen's online community and classroom for ongoing support and education
• 🌐 Work with Karen directly: thegooddivorcecoach.com
• 🤝 Collaborative Divorce Solutions of Orange County
• 🌍 International Academy of Collaborative Professionals (IACP) — trains collaborative divorce professionals worldwide
• 📖 Workbooks referenced: Our Family in Two Homes and A Family in a Few Homes — created by a Canadian collaborative divorce attorney for use with minor and adult children respectively

"Divorce is not a weapon — it's a tool. And when used well, it can be a tool for transformation." — Karen McNaney

What does it look like when a divorce attorney goes through his own divorce — and comes out the other side with a blended family, a co-parenting partnership, and a whole new perspective on his practice? That's exactly what Karen McNenny explores in this conversation with Raiford Dalton Palmer, Illinois divorce attorney, bestselling author, and CEO of STG Divorce Law.

Raiford's own 2015 divorce after a 24-year marriage shaped not just how he lives — but how he leads his firm and serves his clients. In this episode, he pulls back the curtain on what divorce law gets wrong, what families can do differently, and why his commercial litigation background may be the secret weapon more divorcing couples need.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• Raiford's personal divorce story — what went right, what was hard, and how his blended family became a model of abundance over scarcity
• Why "simple" and "easy" are not the same thing when it comes to divorce
• How the adversarial, win/lose court system fails families — and the alternatives that are quietly changing the landscape (mediation, collaboration, arbitration, and the "1.5 attorney divorce")
• The 90/10 Rule: what attorneys can actually help you with — and what belongs with a therapist or divorce coach
• Cost-benefit analysis applied to divorce — why staying in a high-conflict process can cost you far more than the dollars you're fighting over
• Why social media silence is one of the smartest moves you can make during a divorce
• A preview of Raiford's upcoming book, I Just Want to Know How — the guide he wishes he'd had when struggling with his own marriage, and the book he believes couples should read before they ever say the D word
• Why going to marriage counseling early is not a sign you want a divorce — and why waiting too long is like treating stage 4 cancer

Resources mentioned:

• 📘 I Just Want to Know How — Raiford's upcoming book, expected Fall 2026
• 🎙️ I Just Want This Done Divorce Podcast — live Thursdays, drops every Friday on all major platforms and YouTube
• 💬 Illinois Divorce Support — free, anonymous private Facebook group (open to all, not just Illinois residents)
• 📲 Follow Raiford: @RaifordPalmer on TikTok, Instagram, and X
• ⚖️ STG Divorce Law, P.C. — https://www.stglawfirm.com/attorneys/raiford-d-palmer/ | Serving the greater Chicagoland area

Karen McNenny is the author of The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family. To work with Kathleen directly or join her online community, visit TheGoodDivorceCoach.com and the Good Divorce Academy.

And remember: "Everything will be okay in the end — and if it's not okay, it's not the end."

Divorce is a death — of a marriage, an identity, a family, a home — and yet our culture offers almost none of the support it would for any other kind of loss. In this solo episode, Karen gets honest about the grief of divorce: why we wildly underestimate it, why we're often left to navigate it in isolation, and what it actually looks like to move through it with intention.

Karen introduces the concept of ambiguous grief — the particular pain of losing someone who is still very much present in your life as a co-parent — and why that "gone but not gone" experience makes healing so disorienting. She also calls out the trap of pain shopping: the social media stalking, the gossip, the drive-bys that keep picking at a wound that's trying to heal.

You'll also hear Karen's case for including divorce in the Family Medical Leave Act, practical advice for surviving those first brutal transition days when the kids leave for the other home, and why the goal isn't to stop caring — it's to reach a place of emotional indifference, where your ex's choices simply don't rattle you anymore.

This is an episode worth sharing with anyone in your support circle who wants to show up for you but isn't sure how.

Topics covered:

• Why divorce grief is invisible — and why that isolation makes it harder
• The many losses layered inside one divorce
• Ambiguous grief and the "gone but not gone" experience of co-parenting
• Pain shopping: what it is and why it sets you back
• How scars are different from wounds (and why that's good news)
• What emotional indifference actually means — and why it's the goal
• The grief-relief cocktail: feeling two things at once
• Practical tips for transition days when the kids leave
• Karen's advocacy for divorce-inclusive workplace policies

Resources:

• The Good Divorce by Karen McNenny
• The Good Divorce Academy — online community & classroom
• thegooddivorcecoach.com

"Everything will be okay in the end. And if it's not okay, it's not the end."

In this episode, Karen is joined by the "Freedom Team" — Keri Gwynne, CDC Certified Divorce Coach and CEO of Starting Point by Freedom, and Ryan Finley, CPA, CDFA, CVA, and founder of Freedom Financial Services Group. Together, they bring a uniquely holistic perspective to divorce: coaching, financial forensics, and mediation — all under one roof.

Both Keri and Ryan are survivors of high conflict divorce, and they share candidly how those lived experiences shaped their mission to help families navigate the process with clarity, compassion, and a child-centered lens.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• How Keri escaped an abusive marriage in the Nashville Bible Belt — and why shame kept her silent for so long
• What a CPA, CDFA, and CVA actually do — and why your attorney alone isn't enough to protect your financial future
• Forensic accounting explained: what it is, when you need it, and the red flags that signal hidden assets
• Real stories of hidden assets — from money funneled into a mother's account to overpaying the IRS by a million dollars!
• Why everything earned during a marriage is marital property — regardless of whose name is on the account
• The tension between faith and divorce: how Keri coaches clients through shame, scripture, and spiritual abuse
• How to talk to your church community about divorce — and why you're asking for support, not permission
• Keeping children at the center of financial decisions and co-parenting agreements
• The Marriage Mastermind — a new workshop by the Freedom Team designed to go upstream, helping couples build stronger marriages using what divorce professionals see break them apart
• The patterns that lead to divorce: financial secrecy, infidelity, pornography addiction, losing yourself in the relationship
• What it took for both Keri and Ryan to trust love again — and what they looked for the second time around

Connect with the Freedom Team:

• Keri Gwynne | Starting Point by Freedom Divorce coaching, mediation & family-focused guidance | Nashville, TN & Sarasota, FL 🌐 startingpointadvocacy.com 
• Ryan Finley | Freedom Financial Services Group Divorce financial advisory, forensic accounting & mediation | Nashville, TN & Sarasota, FL 🌐 freedomfsg.com

Watch for the Freedom Team's upcoming Marriage Mastermind workshop in New York City — projected for early summer 2026.

Resources mentioned:

• The Good Divorce by Karen McNenny
• The Good Divorce Academy — online community & classroom
• thegooddivorcecoach.com

In this powerful episode of The Good Divorce Show, host Karen McNenny sits down with Dr. Debi Silber — founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute, creator of National Forgiveness Day, and one of the world's leading experts on betrayal recovery — to explore why betrayal is a distinct form of trauma, and what it actually takes to fully heal from it.

Drawing on her groundbreaking PhD research and her own deeply personal experience, Dr. Debi shares the discoveries that transformed her understanding of betrayal — and the five proven, predictable stages that lead to genuine healing and transformation.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why betrayal is a different type of trauma that requires a different approach to healing
• What Post Betrayal Syndrome is — and the staggering statistics behind how many people are living with its symptoms
• Why "time heals all wounds" is a myth when it comes to betrayal
• The five stages of Post Betrayal Transformation — and the most common place people get stuck
• The difference between easily trusting and wisely trusting again
• How self-betrayal shows up in our lives and relationships
• Dr. Debi's own remarkable story — including rebuilding herself, her work, and ultimately her marriage

Whether you're walking through divorce, navigating co-parenting, or supporting clients in transition, this episode offers a framework for understanding one of the most underrecognized forms of trauma — and a roadmap to genuine transformation.

Resources mentioned:

• 📘 Unstuck by Dr. Debi Silber (her newest book, for practitioners)
• 📘 Trust Again by Dr. Debi Silber
• 🎙️ Podcast: From Betrayal to Breakthrough
• 🌐 Post Betrayal Transformation Institute: pbtinstitute.com
• 📅 National Forgiveness Day: September 1st
• 🏫 Betrayal Recovery Certification Program (for coaches and practitioners)

Connect with Karen:

• 📘 The Good Divorce — Karen's book on ending your marriage without ending your family
• 💼 Work with Karen: thegooddivorcecoach.com

One of the most overlooked — and potentially explosive — topics in divorce is also one of the most personal: when is it okay to start dating again? In this episode, Karen McNenny, divorce consultant and co-parent specialist, makes the case that the timing of that question matters less than whether both partners have actually agreed on the answer.

Karen walks through real-life examples from her work with divorcing couples, illustrating how the element of surprise — a discovered laptop conversation, an unexpected guest at a lunch that "meant nothing," a high school reunion that quietly rewrote the rules — can undo months of cooperative progress and poison settlement negotiations. When one partner feels blindsided or embarrassed, even a fair-minded co-parent can suddenly dig in on the fishing boat.

The takeaway isn't a rulebook; it's a framework. Think of it as red light, green light — identifying together what milestone triggers the green light on dating, and what boundaries (around discretion, the kids, the extended community) apply in the meantime. Karen also offers a gentle but honest reminder that the newly-single version of you, however hopeful and energized, may not yet be ready for a serious new relationship — and that giving one chapter a proper ending is the best gift you can give the next one.

📚 If you're enjoying the podcast, be sure to grab Karen's new book: The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family