What if Christianity began not as a set of doctrines to believe, but as a mystery school—an initiatory path meant to awaken direct experience of the divine? In this episode, wel trace the ancient roots of the Christian story through the lost mystery traditions of the ancient world. From the Eleusinian rites to the "dying before you die" experience, we explore how Jesus may have carried forward an older, hidden stream of spiritual practice—and what it might mean to recover those inner mysteries today.

Episode Highlights [00:00:49] Inner vs. Outer Mystery

• We open the episode by introducing the concept of the inner and outer mysteries. Jeff reflects on his "self-initiation" as a mystic. We contrast the living, experiential "inner mystery" with the outer, dogmatic forms of religion that dominate both conservative and progressive Christianity.

[00:14:35] Christianity's Forgotten Roots

• We trace how Christianity may have grown from the ancient "mystery schools" of the Mediterranean world—traditions that used ritual, theater, psychedelics, and more to guide people through some sort of dying-before-you-die experience. We discuss the striking similarities between stories of Jesus and earlier myths like Isis and Horus, and the theological mischief of time-traveling demons. We conclude that the Jesus story carries forward a much older initiatory wisdom—one meant to be lived and experienced, not "believed."

[00:30:39] Christianity as a Living Mystery School

• Further "conclusions" from the previous section, included the idea that we are meant to become like Jesus, not just believe in Jesus.

[00:38:55] Lost "Indigenous" Mysteries

• We reflect on the loss of the ancient initiatory traditions that once formed the spiritual heart of Western culture. We explore the idea that early rituals in the Eleusinian Mysteries may have included sacred plant medicines—technologies for direct encounter with the divine. We grieve how this indigenous wisdom was outlawed, forgotten, and replaced by flat, literal religion. But if the mystery could born in as unlikely a place as Galilee and Judea, could it be reborn here and now?

[00:47:50] Reawakening the Mysteries

• We close by asking whether the ancient mysteries are reemerging in our time. We reflect on the idea that true initiation may come not from institutions but from Spirit itself—the same living intelligence that once guided the mystery schools. If those mysteries are still alive in the inner world, then perhaps the Spirit will give them back.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

Jeff and Michael sit down with Victoria Loorz, author of Church of the Wild, founder of the Center for Wild Spirituality, and co-founder of the Wild Church Network, for a conversation about finding the sacred beyond church walls. They talk about the experience of hearing God beneath an oak tree, encounters with owls and vultures, and why wilderness has always been the place where spiritual transformation begins.

Together they explore what it means to face ecological and institutional collapse without turning away—to grieve, to stay connected, and to treat even loss as part of the holy cycle of life, death, and renewal.

You can learn more about Victoria at her website or by listening to her podcast, The Holy Wild with Victoria Loorz.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

Psychedelics are often framed today as medicines for trauma and therapy—but what if they are something more? In this episode, we sit down with Justin Levy, founder of Spirit House in Portland, Oregon, to explore psychedelics as a path of devotion, surrender, and cultural rebirth.

Justin shares his journey from early rave experiences to work with kundalini, capoeira, and ayahuasca, and how these threads wove together into a living spiritual practice. Together we ask: How do psychedelics invite us to crack open and encounter Spirit? What does it mean to center devotion rather than therapy? And how can we midwife a new spiritual culture in the midst of collapse and transformation?

This is a conversation about the terrifying beauty of the goddess, the messiness of birth, and the possibility that spirit is emerging through unexpected places—if we are willing to give ourselves fully to it.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

In this episode, Michael finally shares the wild story he's been holding back for decades: the day in 2006 when he slipped from a meditation session in his Queens apartment back through time—waking up in his 15-year-old body in 1990. Was it something like a dream, an out-of-body journey, or actual time travel? Jeff and Michael follow the thread from memory and synchronicity into questions of how we experience time itself—linear, cyclical, radial, and kairos.

Episode Highlights [00:00:50] Waking Up in 1990

• Michael quickly jumps into the story that frames our whole conversation.

[00:07:08] Living in 1990

• Michael recounts the weeks he spent in 1990.

[00:11:01] Back to the Future

• Michael goes back to the future and seeks confirmation of his travels back in time.

[00:15:23] Follow Up Questions

• Jeff asks Michael some follow up questions to try to better understand the nature of his experience.

[00:20:21] Meditation, Tantra, and Radial Time

• A deeper dive into how meditation and Tibetan tantric models (mandalas, wheel-of-time) might reshape our understandings of time—time as radial/mandalic/cyclical rather than linear.

[00:33:53] Modern Time

• Jeff and Michael widen the lens: how do we experience and understand time in our modern lives and world? From clocks and railroads to relativity and the Big Bang. chronology vs. kairos, the social history of clocks, relativity, and speculative cosmology (how modern observations challenge simple Big-Bang narratives).

[00:47:43] OBE / Astral Projection Connections

• They compare Michael's time story to out-of-body and astral experiences.

[00:53:36] Kairos, Practical Takeaways & Sign-off

• Closing reflections on kairos (the opportune moment), spiritual implications for freedom from "clock time," and suggestions for small time experiments.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

In this episode, we speak with Nicholas Collura—a board-certified chaplain, spiritual director, and Enneagram teacher—about the unfolding intersection between psychedelics and contemporary spirituality. We explore what the so-called "psychedelic renaissance" means for spiritual direction, Christian practice, and the broader search for meaning in a disenchanted world.

Topics include integration, cultural appropriation, mystical experience, the challenges and risks of reintroducing visionary substances into modern religious life, and what psychedelics might reveal about the gaps—and potential—within our spiritual traditions. A thoughtful conversation for those curious about where spirit and altered states meet.

Learn more about Nicholas at www.nicholascollura.com

Episode Highlights [00:00:50] Introducing Nicholas Collura and the Psychedelic Landscape

• We introduce Nicholas and our conversation opens with an overview of the substances involved in the psychedelic renaissance and how Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind helped catalyze a shift in public and medical discourse around their use.

[00:13:18] Interfaith Dialogue with Plant Medicines

• Nicholas reflects on his experiences with ayahuasca and how its ceremonial use in indigenous traditions sparked a deeper commitment to interreligious dialogue. Rather than cultural appropriation, Nicholas advocates for respectful exchange—approaching psychedelic traditions from within one's own spiritual roots.

[00:23:53] Psychedelics, the Earth, and the Divine Feminine

• Nicholas explores how Christian disconnection from the earth, the feminine, and the mystical has deep roots. He draws parallels between plant medicine traditions and overlooked Christian mystics like Hildegard of Bingen, suggesting that psychedelic encounter may catalyze a reconnection with suppressed dimensions of the faith—particularly the sacred feminine and earth-based spirituality.

[00:29:14] Plant Intelligence & Integration

• We explore the ethical and spiritual tensions of using psychedelics like ayahuasca outside their traditional cultural contexts. Nicholas acknowledges the risk of appropriation but also suggests that these plant medicines may possess a boundary-crossing, invitational intelligence that offers healing to outsiders. Integration, he says, is about bringing insights "back down the ladder" into everyday life—using rituals, relationships, and symbols (like Christian communion) as containers for meaning.

[00:43:02] Integration vs. Domestication

• What does it mean to "integrate" a psychedelic experience in a society that often demands conformity? The hosts and guest reflect on the tension between grounding visionary experiences and being pressured to reintegrate into a disenchanted culture. Is integration always healing, or can it become a form of domestication?

[00:52:10] The Transformation of Faith

• Nicholas shares how psychedelics have influenced his theology and spiritual life. Rather than moving him away from Christianity, they deepened his appreciation for its symbols and mysteries, especially the figure of Jesus as healer and mystic. Psychedelics, he argues, can open new ways of understanding the Gospels.

[01:01:57] Everything Belongs: Hope, Mystery, and Belief

• In closing, Nicholas reflects on how his work and experiences have shaped a theology of radical belonging. Even in a time of ecological collapse and spiritual fragmentation, he finds hope in the idea that all things—light and shadow—are held within a deeper wholeness sustained by divine mystery and love.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

In this episode, we explore The City & the City by China Miéville as a powerful metaphor for cognitive blind spots, social conditioning, and spiritual perception. Drawing on Miéville's layered, dual-city setting—where citizens are trained to "unsee" an overlapping world—we reflect on what it means to overlook not just people and places, but also inner experiences, spiritual insights, and hidden possibilities.

Using the novel as a lens, we talk about religious experience, social breach, the boundaries of acceptable belief, and the psychological costs of seeing too much. We connect these ideas with contemplative practice, direct experience, and what it might take to re-map not just the world around us, but also the worlds within us.

Episode Highlights [00:00:49] Awakening to the Unseen

• Jeff and Michael explore uncanny, synchronistic experiences that seem miraculous in the moment but quickly fade into the background of daily life. They discuss the human brain's tendency to edit out anomalies that challenge societal norms, likening these moments to dreams that vanish upon waking. They introduce the metaphor of "unseeing" and begin discussing the novel The City and the City by China Miéville, which illustrates how perception can be shaped—and limited—by conditioning.

[00:16:40] The Blind Spot: Fiction as Mirror

• They delve deeper into the metaphor from Miéville's novel, focusing on the internal experience of the protagonist and how individuals are conditioned to ignore—"unsee"—entire layers of reality. This leads to reflections on the psychological and social threats of "breach," or stepping outside prescribed norms, and how these threats inhibit spiritual or existential transformation. The conversation expands to consider how these cognitive maps affect both societal structures and personal identity.

[00:27:29] Seeing Beyond Perception

• Jeff and Michael question whether the extreme cognitive blind spots depicted in the novel could exist in real life. They explore historical and anecdotal examples, such as the "invisible ships" story and mass UFO sightings, to suggest that human perception is indeed limited and malleable. They discuss "blindsight," a neurological phenomenon where people can respond to visual stimuli without consciously seeing them, highlighting how we might unconsciously perceive far more than we acknowledge.

[00:35:05] Spatial Resistance and Reclaiming Reality

• Michael brings in The Invisibles by Grant Morrison and the French Situationists, tying in real-world attempts to resist psychological and spatial confinement. They describe how these thinkers used practices like aimless city wandering to reclaim unseen or abandoned spaces. The conversation shifts toward Occupy Wall Street and how these urban, cultural interventions opened up not just physical but inner freedom. They suggest that exploring hidden cityscapes can mirror breaking free of mental constraints.

[00:44:35] The Third City: Mapping the Possible

• They introduce the concept of a third, mythical city—"Orciny"—from Miéville's novel as a metaphor for hidden potentiality. This city might not be entirely real or imaginary, but it represents possibility itself. They connect this to spiritual traditions like Christianity, where concepts like the Kingdom of Heaven exist both within and without. This third place exists not as a utopia we reach but as a reality we uncover through inner and outer transformation.

[01:00:01] From Unseeing to Collective Vision

• The episode closes with reflections on how spiritual practice can train us to perceive what we have been conditioned to ignore. Jeff and Michael share personal experiences—like wandering city streets in contemplative states or encountering the inexplicable—and note how even profound memories can fade from awareness. They ask how to move from personal awakening to collective transformation, calling on listeners to share their own experiences and join a community of seekers exploring new spiritual frontiers.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

What is spiritual direction, really? In this episode, Jeff and Michael explore the practice not as a professional technique or spiritual luxury, but as a vital response to living in a fragmented, disenchanted world. Drawing on their own experiences as directors and directees, they talk about the invisible agreements that shape the space, the role of intuition, the balance between presence and expertise, and what it means to create a container where something deeper—call it spirit, God, or presence—can actually show up. Along the way, they touch on remote viewing, trickster dynamics, compensation anxiety, and the loneliness of being an intuitive in a culture that doesn't quite know what to do with people like that.

For anyone curious about the mechanics and mystery of spiritual direction—and how it might matter in this moment—this one's for you.

Gnostic Town Hall:

Thursday, July 10th at 6 PM PT / 9 PM ET

This is your time to share. We want to hear your stories, experiences, and spiritual desires. What are you seeking? What does authentic spiritual practice mean to you?

To receive the Zoom invite RSVP to [email protected] or use the form on the website.

Episode Highlights: [00:01:35] Discernment Through Direction

• Jeff shares a session with a high‑school senior using prayer, readings, and a random Gospel of Thomas prompt to foster courage, demonstrating how spiritual direction creates a container for confident decision‑making beyond conventional guidance.

[00:07:56] Framing the Sacred Space

• Michael outlines the minimal outer (time, money) and inner (trust, devotion) agreements that define spiritual direction, and they discuss cultural commitment phobia and the challenge of compensating for sacred labor.

[00:19:32] Evocative vs. Directive

• The hosts explore the balance between eliciting the directee's self‑reflection and gently guiding the process. Michael introduces Metis—intuitive navigation of spirit signals, body cues, and synchronicities—and unpacks countertransference in the director‑directee dynamic.

[00:28:59] Excavating a Lost Culture

• Jeff likens modern spiritual seekers to shamans walking through the charred remains of indigenous traditions. He reflects on recovering buried inner gifts and the vulnerability of reclaiming mystical identity in a dismissive culture.

[00:37:56] Essential Practice Defined

• Michael offers a definition: spiritual direction is making space for an unseen source striving to emerge. Ignoring that reality risks individual and cultural harm, framing the practice as vital amidst the collapse of materialistic worldviews.

[00:52:38] The Remote‑Viewing Analogy

• Drawing on CIA psychic protocols, Jeff compares the director to a handler who asks precise, intuition‑unlocking questions. They discuss how this double‑blind approach mirrors tuning into and articulating the directee's inner experience.

[01:04:38] Integration & New Containers

• The hosts examine how directors must balance open receptivity to spirit's signals with pastoral training to reintegrate insights into life. They liken this to finding new "skins" capable of holding transformative "new wine."

[01:10:28] Closing Definition & Call to Practice

• Michael distills spiritual direction as recognizing a deeper reality and inviting it into shared space. He warns that neglecting this sacred container can unleash destructive forces, urging listeners to relearn ancient practices of bearing witness to spirit.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

Welcome to our very first live AMA episode—unscripted and full of spirit. Listeners showed up with real questions about prayer, mystical experience, cryptids, and the strange space where the psychological meets the spiritual.

We talked about what it means to pray when God no longer fits, how to trust the knowledge of the heart, why some people encounter the sacred and others don't, and whether Bigfoot might just be a messenger from beyond (seriously).

It was thoughtful, honest, sometimes strange, and fun! Thanks to everyone who joined us live—and if you missed it, we hope to see you at the next one.

Episode Highlights

[00:01:43] Intro & Invocation

• Jeff and Michael reflect on why they started the podcast and what it means to be in real dialogue. Michael offers a short prayer, inviting whatever spirit needs to show up to be part of the conversation.

[00:04:05] Barbara's Question: Heart, Mind & Embodiment

• Barbara asks whether putting the heart first in spiritual practice leaves out the mind and body. The group explores what balance really means in a culture so often out of balance itself.

[00:21:13] Rusty's Question: How Do I Pray Now?

• Rusty shares that his image of God has changed—and he's not sure how to pray anymore. What follows is an exploration of prayer as presence, practice, memory, and sometimes just a single word spoken in the dark.

[00:42:22] Jacqui's Question: Is It Real, or Just My Brain?

• Jacqui asks whether mystical or psychedelic experiences are glimpses of something beyond—or just the brain misfiring. The conversation turns to doubt, wonder, and how meaning sometimes survives even when certainty doesn't.

[00:52:37] Anthony's Question: Cryptids & Contact

• Anthony wants to know when we're going to talk more about Bigfoot and the weird stuff. The answer is: now. Jeff and Michael reflect on why stories of the strange matter—and how the sacred sometimes shows up where we least expect it.

[01:04:30] Katrina's Question: Why Do Some People Experience God?

• The group reflects on why some people feel a strong pull toward spiritual experience, while others don't. The conversation touches on temperament, culture, grace, and the freedom not to need what others seek.

[01:18:13] Cliff's Question: Are Dreams Just Chimneys?

• Cliff shares a Jesuit's take that dreams are interesting but not necessarily meaningful—that they may simply vent unresolved thoughts. The group explores whether dreams might offer more than metaphor, and how meaning can emerge even if you don't take them literally.

[01:23:55] Closing Reflections

• A few closing words of thanks and encouragement. It wasn't a typical podcast episode, and that was the point. The invitation remains open—to bring your questions, your story, and yourself.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this conversation? Tell us at [email protected] or reach out at: https://www.gospelofdirectexperience.com/#contact.

In this powerful and personal episode, we sit down with Emma Mcilroy—queer feminist, immigrant, entrepreneur, and CEO of Wildfang—for a conversation that dives deep into faith, identity, capitalism, and surviving life's darkest valleys. Emma shares her journey of reconciling her sexuality with her faith, the near-death experience surrounding the birth of her son, and how a private, hard-won relationship with God became her unshakable bridge. We explore what it means to wrestle with faith, lead with integrity, and hold onto Spirit in a world that often demands compromise.

Episode Highlights

[00:03:35] Coming Out, Falling Apart, and Finding the Bridge

• Emma reflects on immigrating to the US, falling in love with a woman and coming out, and feeling her world fall down all around her. She turns inward and begins a one-on-one wrestling match with God. Her image of faith as a fragile-seeming rope bridge that somehow holds despite appearances becomes a central metaphor of the episode.

[00:17:26] Birth, Breakdown, and a Waiting Room Miracle

• Emma recounts her traumatic childbirth story—HELLP syndrome, a near-stroke, and a harrowing return to the hospital just days after giving birth. Faith, Emma concludes, isn't about having answers. It's about being open, vulnerable, and present in the moment when everything falls apart—and trusting that something or someone will meet you there.

[00:30:33] Capitalism and Christianity: Leading Without Losing Your Soul

• Emma explores how her faith shapes her work as a CEO in a profit-driven world. From donating over a million dollars to fostering authentic workplace relationships, she strives to let her values guide her leadership. Still, she confesses the tension between her ethics and the demands of the system she operates within.

[00:47:35] Parenting, Service, and the Desire for More

• As a new mom, Emma wrestles with how to raise her son with openness and integrity while still holding onto the faith that has carried her through. She speaks candidly about wanting to deepen her life of service and how vulnerability—not certainty—opens the door to transformation, connection, and peace.

Two Special Events—Join Us!

We're four months into The Gospel of Direct Experience podcast, and we're so grateful for your support—thank you for listening, reviewing, and reaching out. It means the world to us.

This podcast isn't just about sharing our thoughts—it's about building community. So, we're launching two live events to connect more deeply with you.

Event #1: Live AMA (Ask Me Anything) Thursday, June 12th at 6 PM PT / 9 PM ET

Join us live on Zoom for a laid-back Q&A session. Ask Michael, me, or both of us anything—about the podcast, spirituality, your own journey, or whatever's on your heart.

RSVP by emailing us at [email protected].

Can't make it? Email us your question by Wednesday, June 11th, and we might include it when we release the AMA as an episode later in June.

Event #2: Gnostic Town Hall Thursday, July 10th at 6 PM PT / 9 PM ET

This is your time to share. We want to hear your stories, experiences, and spiritual desires. What are you seeking? What does authentic spiritual practice mean to you?

RSVP the same way: [email protected].

This is just the beginning—we hope to see you soon.

Continue the Conversation

What did you think about this episode? Tell us at [email protected] or by visiting our website. While you're there:

• Sign up for our mailing list to keep up to date on the all the latest from us
• Contact us about your own experiences, questions, comments

What if the path to salvation isn't belief—but integration?

Building off our last episode, Jeff and Michael unpack a mysterious saying from the Gospel of Thomas about making "the two one," and explore how ancient Gnostic wisdom speaks to our divided modern selves. Jeff shares a concluding dream that becomes a portal into the deeper meaning of inner and outer reconciliation, while Michael reflects on the radical claim that knowing yourself might be the same as knowing God.

Episode Highlights

[00:01:54] Gnosticism & Direct Experience

Jeff and Michael introduce the Gnostic theme of integrating opposites, grounding it back in Jeff's dreams from last time of the three-fingered hand and "coming out" as "bi."

[00:10:15] The Two Become One

Exploring Saying 22 from Thomas, we interpret Jesus' teaching as a call to dissolve dualities—child and mother, inner and outer—as the path to divine unity. We begin to reframe "salvation" as a radical transformation of consciousness.

[00:18:44] The Kingdom Within

Coming back again to saying 3 prompts a discussion on knowing God through knowing oneself. We argue that true poverty is alienation from the self—not lack of belief.

[00:25:57] Dream of the Child

Jeff shares a dream in which a radiant child leads him out of prison. The dream becomes a metaphor for the relationship between the true self and the persona.

[00:36:22] Beyond World-Denying

We push back on the claim that Gnosticism rejects the world, arguing instead for balance—recovering the forgotten inner dimension of reality.

[00:45:26] Persona & Pastoring

Jeff reflects on how his pastoral persona outgrew its roots in the inner life. They draw parallels with how Christianity itself has lost touch with its source.

[00:53:29] The Hidden Light

A random Gospel of Thomas verse sparks an honest exchange about what we've kept hidden. Michael confesses his mystical identification with the Logos; Jeff discloses his rejection of a sky-God. Both commit to naming the truth more fully.

Two Special Events—Join Us!

We're four months into The Gospel of Direct Experience podcast, and we're so grateful for your support—thank you for listening, reviewing, and reaching out. It means the world to us.

This podcast isn't just about sharing our thoughts—it's about building community. So, we're launching two live events to connect more deeply with you.

Event #1: Live AMA (Ask Me Anything) Thursday, June 12th at 6 PM PT / 9 PM ET

Join us live on Zoom for a laid-back Q&A session. Ask Michael, me, or both of us anything—about the podcast, spirituality, your own journey, or whatever's on your heart.

RSVP by emailing us at [email protected].

Can't make it? Email us your question by Wednesday, June 11th, and we might include it when we release the AMA as an episode later in June.

Event #2: Gnostic Town Hall Thursday, July 10th at 6 PM PT / 9 PM ET

This is your time to share. We want to hear your stories, experiences, and spiritual desires. What are you seeking? What does authentic spiritual practice mean to you?

RSVP the same way: [email protected].

This is just the beginning—we hope to see you soon.

Continue the Conversation

Visit our website. While you're there:

• Sign up for our mailing list to keep up to date on the all the latest from us
• Contact us about your own experiences, questions, comments