In this episode of the Grown Up Business Podcast, host Paul Avins engages in a dynamic conversation with leadership experts George Anderson and Sarah Furness . They explore the multifaceted nature of leadership, emphasising the importance of resilience, effective communication, and the evolving role of leaders in modern business. The discussion covers practical strategies for delegation, the significance of feedback, and the necessity of self-compassion in leadership. The guests share personal experiences and insights, providing listeners with actionable takeaways to enhance their leadership skills and foster a high-performance culture within their teams.

Key Takeaways

• Leadership is about doing uncomfortable things for a cause beyond your own.
• Effective communication and understanding your team are crucial for leadership.
• The language used around team members can impact team dynamics significantly.
• Transitioning into a leadership role requires clear communication about changing relationships.
• Delegation is essential for growth, but it requires trust and transparency.
• Feedback should be a routine part of business operations for continuous improvement.
• Resilience is not just about bouncing back; it's about managing daily stresses and changes.
• Mindfulness and self-compassion are key to maintaining a positive mindset as a leader.
• Physical energy management is foundational for effective leadership and resilience.
• Creating a culture of reflection and learning from experiences is vital for growth.

Sound Bites

• "If you don't become a better leader, it's hard to attract talent."
• "Leadership is doing uncomfortable things for a cause beyond your own."
• "The language you use around your team is critically important."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Leadership Insights

02:57 Defining Leadership

05:57 The Importance of Team Dynamics

08:48 Transitioning into Leadership Roles

12:04 Delegation and Trust in Leadership

14:54 Feedback and Continuous Improvement

17:49 Resilience in Leadership

20:59 Mindfulness and Self-Compassion

23:48 The Role of Energy in Leadership

26:59 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways

What if the fastest path to seven figures isn't working harder — but getting laser-focused on who you serve, what you offer, and how you sell?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins shares three proven strategies that any entrepreneur can use to scale their sales to a million dollars — and beyond.

Originally recorded as part of a collaborative book project, this conversation breaks down the exact steps Paul has used with over 550 clients across 147 industries to generate over £100 million in exits. From niching down your dream customer avatar to creating irresistible offers that pull instead of push, to building scalable sales systems that work without you — Paul walks through the blueprint that has helped businesses double, triple, and scale to seven figures in 12 months or less.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to stop guessing, start converting, and build a sales engine that scales predictably and profitably.

• Why niching down is the fastest way to scale — and how to identify your dream customer avatar
• The A-B-C-D customer grading system that reveals who to serve and who to fire
• How to create three high-converting offers: lead magnet, conversion, and continuity
• Why irresistible offers reduce risk, create scarcity, and generate demand tension
• Real-world examples: how a glove glue brand hit £2.2M and a recruitment firm scaled to £1.3M in 12 months
• The Magic Matrix: a simple system that generated one client an extra $1 million in 12 months
• Why changing the buying environment builds trust and explodes lifetime value
• How to use AI to test offers, automate follow-up, and scale faster with less effort
• The golden rule: Serve hard, sell easy
• Why your health and mindset are the foundation of sustainable business growth

Apply it now
Identify your dream customer avatar using the A-B-C-D grading system. Then ask: what's one irresistible offer I can create this week?

Download the full book
Get access to the full collaborative book featuring Paul and 24 other world-class marketing and sales experts — link in the show notes.

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

Connect with Paul on LinkedIn: Search Paul Avins

Free resources and tools: https://scaleupcoaching.com

Learn about the Grown Up Business Retreat: https://grownupbusinessretreat.com

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to building a £100 million business isn't following the plan — but staying curious, resilient, and willing to start over like a beginner?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Simon Leslie — serial entrepreneur, author, and owner of Eastbourne Borough Football Club.

Simon shares his remarkable journey from building a global travel publishing business that scaled to £100 million in revenue across every country in the world (except Antarctica) to buying and transforming a football club. He unpacks the mindset shifts required to scale internationally, the art of selling without fear, why White Belt Thinking keeps you sharp, and how belief — not realism — is what drives extraordinary results.

Together, Paul and Simon explore why opportunities are gift-wrapped in problems, how to sell by transferring enthusiasm rather than features, why most entrepreneurs quit too soon, and what it really means to play the long game. This conversation goes deep into resilience, negotiation, leadership under pressure, and why your life story — the dash between birth and death — should be worth reading.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to think bigger, sell better, lead with passion, and build something truly memorable.

• Why a grown-up business is full of problems — and why that's a good thing
• How Simon scaled a business to £100 million without a formal business plan
• The mindset shifts required to go from startup to global scale
• Why selling is like a job interview — and how to transfer enthusiasm, not features
• The three limiting beliefs that kill sales performance: product's not good enough, too expensive, and hiding behind email
• Why persistence and consistency beat tactics every time
• How Simon sold the same business four times — and what he learned from each exit
• Why White Belt Thinking — thinking like a beginner — keeps you sharp and adaptable
• How building trust at every level unlocks high performance in teams
• Why opportunities are gift-wrapped problems — and how to unwrap them
• The dash between birth and death: why your life story matters more than your business plan

Simon Leslie is a serial entrepreneur, author, and owner of Eastbourne Borough Football Club. He co-founded a global travel publishing business that scaled to £100 million in revenue, operating in every country except Antarctica, before selling it four times across multiple capital events. Simon is the author of There's No F in Sales and White Belt Thinking, and is passionate about using business as a force for good — whether through building high-performing teams, transforming football culture, or inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs.

Apply it now
Identify one problem in your business right now — and ask yourself: what's the opportunity hidden inside it?

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to a successful business exit isn't just about the money — but about building something worth handing over?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Simon Morton — founder of Eiffel Presentations, the man Microsoft turned to for PowerPoint expertise, and author of the new book The Guide to Transitioning from Boss to Benefactor.

Simon shares his remarkable 18-year journey from starting out at his kitchen table to building a multi-million-pound presentation agency with over 40 people — and ultimately exiting through an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT). Together, Paul and Simon unpack the realities of scaling a people-business, the emotional rollercoaster of entrepreneurship, why most presentations fail, how to build a leadership team you can trust with your legacy, and what it really takes to transition out of your business without regret.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to understand what a grown-up exit looks like — and how to build a business that can thrive long after you've stepped away.

• Why most presentations fail — and the five biggest mistakes people make with PowerPoint
• How to shift from creating slides to crafting compelling stories that drive action
• The power of visualization and goal mapping — and how one picture kept Simon from the pub and landed a million-pound client
• Why building the right team is more important than scaling sales — and how to spot talent everywhere
• How to know if you're just tired or actually ready to sell — and why getting that wrong could be your biggest regret
• What an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT) is, how it works, and why it might be the smartest exit strategy you've never considered
• Why you need distance from your business — physically and mentally — to lead it well
• The emotional reality of exiting — grief, identity shift, and what comes after
• Why building a business that can run without you is the ultimate measure of success

Simon Morton is the founder of Eiffel Presentations, a multi-award-winning presentation agency that has worked with Microsoft, Adobe, KPMG, and hundreds of leading organizations worldwide. Known as the "Prince of PowerPoint," Simon specializes in helping businesses cut through the noise and communicate with clarity, impact, and humanity. After 18 years of building Eiffel, Simon successfully transitioned the business to his team through an Employee Ownership Trust. He is the author of The Guide to Transitioning from Boss to Benefactor and is now focused on writing, storytelling, and helping other entrepreneurs navigate their own exit journeys.

Apply it now
Ask yourself: could my business operate — and grow — without me? If not, what's the first step to making that possible?

Get Simon's Book
Grab a copy of The Guide to Transitioning from Boss to Benefactor to explore whether an Employee Ownership Trust could be the right exit strategy for you.
Connect with Simon Morton on LinkedIn

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to scaling your business isn't doing more — but doing the right things with ruthless focus?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Pete Wilkinson — ultra-athlete, MBA graduate, and creator of the 1-3-5 System and Reclaro, the execution software helping companies translate strategy into daily action.

Pete shares how his corporate background, MBA studies, and Ironman training led him to design a framework that solves one of business's biggest problems: the gap between strategy and execution. Together, Paul and Pete unpack why most strategies fail, the difference between being busy and being productive, and how to measure what actually matters — leading indicators, not just lagging ones. They explore why most businesses try to do too much, how clarity on outcomes drives alignment, and why training your team is non-negotiable if you want to scale sustainably.

This episode is essential listening for CEOs and founders who want to stop firefighting, start leading strategically, and build businesses that execute with discipline and focus.

• Why most strategies fail — and the three reasons execution breaks down
• The difference between efficiency (doing things right) and effectiveness (doing the right things)
• How to identify and measure leading indicators that predict success — not just lag measures like sales and profit
• Why clarity on outcomes is the foundation of alignment across your team
• The 1-3-5 System: one vision, three objectives, five key results — and why simplicity beats complexity
• Why most businesses don't invest in training their teams — and how that costs them growth
• How endurance sport mirrors business — and why treating business like an ultra-marathon changes everything
• Why energy, recovery, and focus are competitive advantages in scale-up leadership
• The courage to say no: why doing less with more focus unlocks faster growth

Pete Wilkinson is the creator of the 1-3-5 System, author of Unstoppable: Using the Power of Focus to Take Action and Achieve Your Goals, and founder of Reclaro — execution software that helps businesses turn strategy into action. With an MBA and a corporate background in energy, Pete has spent years studying what separates businesses that execute from those that stall. He is also an ultra-athlete who has completed Ironman triathlons and trained with UK Special Forces, applying the principles of endurance sport to business performance.

Apply it now
Ask yourself: are you being efficient or effective? Focus on doing the right things first — then get efficient at them.

Learn more about the 1-3-5 System
Visit reclaro.com to explore the software, book a discovery call, or access free templates and resources.
Connect with Pete Wilkinson on LinkedIn

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to scaling your business isn't more leads — but a clearer value proposition and smarter use of AI?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Barnaby Winter — one of the UK's leading brand strategists, creator of the Brand Bucket methodology, and a marketing expert who has helped build over 450 brands globally.

Barnaby shares his journey from becoming one of the youngest MDs in the UK's top 200 companies to developing the Brand Bucket framework that has transformed how businesses define their value proposition, connect with buyers, and scale sustainably. Together, Paul and Barnaby unpack why marketing is now the lead discipline at the board table, how to build a brand that sits on your balance sheet, the critical difference between personal brand and business brand, and why AI is the ultimate tool for augmentation — not replacement.

This conversation goes deep into value proposition design, psychographic profiling, the shift from broadcast to relationship-led marketing, and how AI can accelerate growth when used strategically. Barnaby also shares powerful stories from working with brands like Marie Curie, ETRADE, and Virgin — and why most founders get branding catastrophically wrong.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to build a brand that scales, attract high-value buyers, and use AI to enhance — not replace — human creativity and customer relationships.

• Why marketing is now the lead discipline around the board table — and what that means for grown-up businesses
• The four pillars of a powerful value proposition: behavioral style, benefits, beliefs, and what you want to be famous for
• Why it's like, know, trust — not know, like, trust — and how emotion drives all buying decisions
• The critical difference between branding (how you show up) and brand (the relationship you build)
• Why personal brand can limit your ability to scale — and how to build a business brand that works without you
• How to use psychographics (not demographics) to deeply understand your target market
• Why brand sits on the balance sheet — and how it drives enterprise value at exit
• The difference between automation and augmentation in AI — and why augmentation is where the real value lies
• How to brief AI using your value proposition to create content, images, music, and customer experiences that align with your brand
• Why AI should free your team to create deeper customer relationships — not replace them

Barnaby Winter is a brand strategist, marketing expert, and creator of the Brand Bucket methodology — a proven framework for building go-to brands that scale. With over 35 years' experience, Barnaby has been responsible for creating and repositioning more than 450 brands globally, including work with Marie Curie, ETRADE, Virgin, and many high-growth scale-ups. He is the author of three books, including his latest, How to Become a Go-To Brand, and is a Freeman of the Company of Entrepreneurs. Barnaby specializes in helping businesses define their value proposition, connect with buyers at a psychographic level, and use AI strategically to enhance marketing, customer experience, and growth.

Apply it now
Grab a coffee and a sticky note pad — write down everything that's good about your business, then distill it into your behavioral style, benefits, beliefs, and what you want to be famous for.

Connect with Barnaby Winter
LinkedIn: Search for Barnaby Winter (with a Y)
Website: https://www.barnabywinter.com
Book: How to Become a Go-To Brand

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to scaling your business isn't working harder — but starting your day with more intention?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Kat Thorne — morning routine expert, keynote speaker, and host of The Positive Habits Podcast.

Kat shares her powerful story of nearly losing her life in 2016 — and how that wake-up call forced her to completely redesign her relationship with health, habits, and high performance. Together, Paul and Kat unpack why so many entrepreneurs sacrifice their wellbeing in pursuit of success, how toxic morning routines silently sabotage performance, and why small, consistent habits create the foundation for sustainable scale.

This conversation goes deep into the psychology of habit change, the neuroscience of sleep and recovery, why your phone is destroying your energy, and how movement, gratitude, and intentional mornings can unlock clarity, confidence, and momentum in your business and life.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to perform at their peak without burning out — and who understand that health is the ultimate wealth currency in entrepreneurship.

• Why most entrepreneurs are running on autopilot — and how to break the cycle
• The toxic morning routine that nearly cost Kat her life
• Why getting your phone out of your bedroom is the single best decision you can make
• How 10 minutes of daily movement builds confidence, energy, and momentum
• Why rest and recovery are as important as execution — especially for long-term performance
• The 3-2-1 evening routine method that optimizes sleep and mental clarity
• Why journaling (or thought logging) helps you take control of your mind
• How gratitude stacking at the end of each day rewires your brain for positivity
• Why keeping promises to yourself builds unshakeable confidence
• The power of focusing on just one habit for 21 days — and why that's enough to start

Kat Thorne is a keynote speaker, morning routine expert, and host of The Positive Habits Podcast. After a life-threatening health scare in 2016, Kat completely redesigned her approach to health, habits, and high performance. She now works with ambitious entrepreneurs and corporate teams to help them build sustainable routines that unlock energy, clarity, and long-term success. Kat is on a mission to help people stop sacrificing their wellbeing for short-term wins — and start building lives they genuinely love.

Apply it now
Choose just one habit from Kat's top five and commit to it for 21 days:
1. Get your phone out of your bedroom
2. Move your body for 10 minutes every day
3. Consume positive content for 10 minutes daily
4. Drink water before caffeine every morning
5. Journal or log your thoughts to clear mental clutter

Connect with Kat Thorne
Listen to The Positive Habits Podcast on all major platforms
Follow Kat on LinkedIn and Instagram

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to building a seven-figure business by age 24 isn't working harder — but mastering the fundamentals of attention, personal branding, and relentless execution?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Liv Conlon — entrepreneur, bestselling author, and founder of two seven-figure businesses by the time she was 24 years old.

Recorded live at the Grown-Up Business Retreat, this behind-the-scenes Q&A session captures Liv answering every question from the audience — and sharing strategies that most entrepreneurs never implement. From building a personal brand that generated over a million in revenue with zero ad spend, to writing two books in under 10 days combined, to running a multi-million pound business while working 10-hour deep work sessions starting at 4am with a four-month-old baby — Liv's approach shatters limiting beliefs about what's possible.

Together, Paul and Liv unpack why personal branding is the fastest path to scale, how she turned a £1,000 direct mail campaign into £87,000 in sales, the exact structure she used to write her books, how she systematized her business to move to Spain, and why most people fail to take action even when they know exactly what to do. This conversation is raw, tactical, and unapologetically honest about what it takes to build a grown-up business that scales.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to stop making excuses, start executing at a higher level, and finally break through the barriers holding them back from serious growth.

• Why personal branding is the fastest way to scale — and how Liv built a million-pound business with zero ad spend
• The exact 45,000-word book structure: 15 chapters, 3,000 words each, 10 subheadings of 300 words
• How a £1,000 direct mail campaign generated £87,000 in mastermind sales — and why direct mail outperforms digital
• The power of deep work: how Liv runs two seven-figure businesses working 10-hour focused sessions daily
• Why 99% of UK entrepreneurs won't put their face out there — and why that's your biggest opportunity
• How to systematize your business so you can step away without it falling apart
• Why recording for the delete button removes the fear of creating content
• How working for free as a mentor's intern fast-tracked Liv's success at 16
• Why the best investments are often the ones that didn't work — and what a $25,000 glass of water taught her
• The mindset shift from "hard work equals success" to leveraging systems and recurring revenue

Liv Conlon is a serial entrepreneur, bestselling author of Too Big For Your Boots and Stage Your Boss, and founder of two seven-figure businesses built before the age of 24. She started her first business at 16 with no funding or experience, scaling it to over a million in revenue by age 21. Liv is also the founder of the Too Big For Your Boots charity, which teaches entrepreneurship to young people in schools. She specializes in personal branding, direct marketing, and building scalable service-based businesses.

Apply it now
Identify one area where fear of putting yourself out there is costing you growth — and record one piece of content this week.

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to scaling your business isn't working harder — but learning to harness the most transformative technology of our generation before your competitors do?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Piers Linney — former Dragon from BBC's Dragons' Den, serial entrepreneur, investor, and technology visionary.

Recorded live at the Scale-Up Summit, this special Q&A session follows Piers' keynote presentation on AI and wealth creation. Together, Paul and Piers unpack the practical applications of AI in business today, why most founders are still just scratching the surface, and how to position yourself and your company ahead of the exponential curve that's already leaving the harbour.

Piers shares his insights on everything from nuclear fusion and the death of the internet as we know it, to how AI agents will revolutionise sales, marketing, recruitment, and customer service. He reveals why the businesses that embrace AI now will capture blue ocean opportunities — while those that wait will struggle to ever catch up. This conversation goes deep into the strategic, operational, and even philosophical implications of AI — including the risks, the regulation challenges, and why the human experience will become more valuable than ever.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to understand not just what AI can do — but how to implement it strategically, protect against cyber threats, and build businesses that scale faster, serve better, and stay ahead of disruption.

• Why you won't lose your business to AI — but you will lose it to someone who uses AI better than you
• The difference between using AI as a tool and being empowered by it through context and training
• How to implement AI strategically: start with low-complexity, high-ROI workflows first
• Why AI agents will replace the internet as we know it — and what that means for sales and marketing
• The exponential curve: why being a week late to AI adoption could mean never catching up
• How to use AI in recruitment, customer service, operations, and decision-making right now
• Why cyber security and internal policies around AI are non-negotiable
• The future of work: why hairdressers and plumbers may earn more than hedge fund managers
• How M&A strategies and business valuations will shift as AI becomes an operating system for acquisition targets
• Why the human experience will become the ultimate premium — and how to protect it in your business

Piers Linney is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and former Dragon on BBC's Dragons' Den. He has built, scaled, and exited multiple businesses across technology, cloud infrastructure, and AI. Piers is now co-founder of an AI consulting and implementation firm that helps businesses adopt AI agents, build intelligent operating systems, and scale faster through technology. He specialises in helping CEOs and founders understand not just what AI can do — but how to deploy it strategically for competitive advantage and long-term wealth creation.

Apply it now
Identify one repetitive or mundane workflow in your business and ask: how could AI automate or augment this process?

Watch the full keynote
Access Piers Linney's complete Scale-Up Summit presentation on AI and wealth creation — link available below this episode for a limited time.

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.

What if the secret to scaling your business isn't just about strategy and systems — but about the people you surround yourself with?

In this episode of The Grown Up Business Podcast, Paul Avins is joined by Terry Fisher — serial entrepreneur, angel investor, and former CEO who has built and sold five businesses, navigated both spectacular successes and devastating failures, and learned how to leverage the power of networks to create extraordinary outcomes.

Terry shares his remarkable journey from starting his first business at 18 to running Thomas Cook, nearly buying it for £500 million, and selling a music app to Snapchat for over $100 million in just 18 months. Along the way, he opens up about the dark period after his first business failure, why taking on outside investors can be a double-edged sword, and how surrounding himself with the right people — from supportive partners to strategic co-investors — became the key to his biggest wins.

Together, Paul and Terry unpack why knowing your exit matters from day one, how preemption clauses keep partnerships honest, why gut instinct beats spreadsheets when choosing who to back, and how building genuine relationships unlocks doors that money and strategy alone never could.

This episode is essential listening for founders and CEOs who want to scale faster by building smarter networks, choosing the right partners, and understanding that success is rarely a solo journey.

• Why surrounding yourself with the right people is more valuable than any business plan
• How Terry nearly bought Thomas Cook for £500 million — and why the board said no
• The first time Terry took on outside investors — and why it led to his first business failure
• Why preemption clauses in shareholder agreements keep everyone honest and protect value
• How a music app went from struggling to raise money at a $5M valuation to selling for over $100M to Snapchat
• Why knowing your exit from day one changes every decision you make in your business
• How gut instinct and meeting the people behind the pitch drives Terry's angel investment decisions
• The importance of getting back on the horse after failure — and why the journey matters more than the destination

Terry Fisher is a serial entrepreneur, angel investor, and former CEO with over 30 years of experience building, scaling, and exiting businesses. He has built and sold five companies, served on the board of Thomas Cook, and invested in multiple startups across tech, music, energy, and finance. Terry specializes in helping entrepreneurs scale through strategic networks, smart partnerships, and disciplined execution. He splits his time between London and California, mentoring founders and backing the next generation of high-growth businesses.

Apply it now
Identify one area where the right connection or partnership could unlock your next level of growth — and take action to build that relationship.

Connect with Terry Fisher
Follow Terry on LinkedIn and Instagram for insights on entrepreneurship, investing, and scaling businesses.

Scale with Paul
If this episode resonated, Paul's work focuses on helping founders step out of the day-to-day and scale with structure and confidence.

Book a call with Paul: https://www.paulavins.com/book-a-call

Subscribe to the Scale-Up Newsletter: https://www.paulavins.com/newsletter-opt-in

About Paul Avins
Paul Avins is a scale-up business coach and founder of the Grown-Up Business framework. He works with founders and CEOs to help them move from operator to scale-up leader — building businesses that grow sustainably, scale beyond the founder, and create real enterprise value. Paul's work focuses on disciplined leadership, high-performing teams, and systems that replace chaos with clarity.

Level Up. Team Up. Scale Up. Fire Up.