The GTM Engineer Podcast

In today's episode, I chat with Habib, a GTM engineer at Cuez (rundown software for newsrooms), about transitioning from agency life handling 4-5 clients daily across legal, fintech, manufacturing, and SaaS to doing account-based marketing for a small TAM where every lost lead is remembered by name. 

We explore his creative campaigns including an early Clay legacy model workflow (end of 2022) that mapped industry-specific suggestions for IT services clients - suggesting three website improvements or SEO fixes with interest-based CTAs, getting one positive response per 160 leads sent - and a non-profit campaign complimenting active fundraisers in the first line at scale, generating 15-20 meetings monthly for eight months straight because cause-driven people appreciate relevant recognition without fancy name-dropping personalization. Habib shares his unconventional journey from studying economics and political science, writing research papers, preparing for the CSS exam in Pakistan (India's IPS equivalent) and failing one paper, applying for jobs and getting offered 3x the management consulting salary by an agency (family thought it was a scam), working across five agencies including ColdIQ, Hanger, and BuyerSite while completing his master's in Belgium, and now expanding Cuez into the US market with targeted deep research on each prospect. He predicts fundamentals remain unchanged (people buy from people), tools will automate workflows but creativity separates winners, there's a GTM bubble in India/Pakistan (hundreds of engineers) versus Belgium (only two companies hiring), and success depends on understanding data beneath surface-level Apollo filters - finding secret data points lets anyone create strategy through permutations. Habib's advice: understand sales team functions first (how GTM engineer overlaps with marketing, revenue, product teams), tools come and go but human psyche fundamentals matter, read Gary Halbert's Boron Letters (transformed his email writing) and Ogilvy on Advertising, and join local communities like Clay, n8n, or RevOps groups. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:26) What Cuez Does: Rundown Software for Newsrooms
(01:01) Why Leave Agencies for Product Company (Learning Curve Goes Stagnant)
(02:32) Working at Cuez: Account-Based Marketing for Small TAM
(04:03) When TAM Is Small, Go Deep Not Wide
(04:44) Creative Campaign: Clay Legacy Model for IT Services (2022)
(06:01) Mapping Industry-Specific Suggestions at Scale
(08:04) Non-Profit Campaign: Complimenting Active Fundraisers (15-20 Meetings/Month)
(09:11) Why Cause-Driven People Respond to Relevant Recognition
(10:24) Journey: Economics and Political Science Background
(10:53) CSS Exam Failure Led to Sales Career
(11:09) Getting Paid 3x Management Consulting Salary (Family Thought It Was a Scam)
(11:43) Working Across Five Agencies (ColdIQ, Hanger, BuyerSight)
(12:10) Regret: Not Creating LinkedIn Content Earlier
(12:48) Future Prediction: GTM Bubble in India/Pakistan vs Europe
(13:28) Only Two Companies Hiring GTM Engineers in Belgium/Luxembourg
(14:17) Success Depends on Understanding Data Beneath Surface Layers
(15:28) It's a Creative Field, Not Pure Engineering (GTM Artist > GTM Engineer)
(16:23) Advice: Understand Sales Team Functions and Overlapping Patterns First
(17:24) Tools Come and Go, Human Psyche Fundamentals Stay
(17:40) Read Boron Letters and Ogilvy on Advertising
(18:31) Join Local Communities (Clay, n8n, RevOps)
(18:49) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH HABIB

 👥 LinkedIn

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Mira, an SDR at Dreamforge, about building GTM strategies with predefined funnels for web3 and biotech clients - automating multi-channel approaches while emphasizing that two-way client communication matters more than any tool. 

We explore her creative cybersecurity campaign targeting companies that recently suffered data breaches or security incidents, building buyer silos first before starting lead generation, using Clay to combine ICP criteria with decision-maker positions at vulnerable companies, and timing outreach when they're ready to buy solutions outside their original project plan. Mira shares her unconventional journey starting as Dreamforge's first SDR with zero sales experience (coming from a customer support team leader role), switching to GTM engineer after one month to learn Clay, Instantly, and other optimization tools, then switching back to SDR after realizing her place is closer to clients and daily conversations, and now existing somewhere in between both roles at a small two-team company (sales + RevOps). She predicts GTM engineering will become a necessary part of every team as someone who turns one month of work into two days, the role requires understanding ICP, strategy, clients, and how other teams work (not just tool proficiency), and Clay's use cases are expanding beyond outbound into wedding invitations, inbound lead qualification, and any function currently using Excel - essentially "Excel on steroids with API connections." Mira's advice: just start and don't be afraid (you don't need to be a programmer), use LinkedIn for free resources and connecting with other new GTM engineers (everyone's response is "oh me too, don't worry"), and remember the entire GTM engineer title is only two years old so nobody has 10 years of experience despite what recruiters post. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:26) What Dreamforge Does: GTM Strategy with Predefined Funnels
(02:09) How They Niched Down to Web3 and Biotech
(03:39) Creative Campaign: Targeting Companies with Recent Cybersecurity Breaches
(04:51) Building Buyer Silos Before Starting Lead Generation
(06:21) Two-Way Client Communication Matters More Than Any Tool
(07:42) Building Trust and Becoming Part of Their Team
(08:03) Web3 Client Story: Coffee Walks and Conference Offsites
(10:01) Journey: SDR → GTM Engineer → Back to SDR (Somewhere In Between)
(12:01) First Real Sales Job After Customer Support Team Leader Role
(13:05) Future Prediction: GTM Engineer as Necessary Part of Every Team
(14:38) Clay's Expanding Use Cases (Wedding Invitations to Inbound Leads)
(16:03) Advice: Just Start, You Don't Need to Be a Programmer
(17:04) LinkedIn as Free Resource Hub and Community Connection
(18:05) The Entire Title Is Only Two Years Old
(18:28) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH MIRA

 👥 LinkedIn

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Jana Vasileska, founder at Viralnetix, about building GTM systems inside client companies rather than running black-box campaigns - positioning as a strategic partner who automates everything so SDRs can focus on closing while clients own and understand every system. 

We explore her creative campaigns including an AI agent that attempts to buy from Shopify stores to identify exactly where checkout processes break, a podcast guest outreach workflow that qualifies companies by innovation signals, matches decision-makers to relevant podcast topics, and generates personalized interview questions automatically, and her experience handling 200+ daily creator replies at Influencers Club (landing TikTok and L'Oréal as clients at age 22) by integrating OpenAI with Make to replicate their outreach language. Jana shares her unconventional journey from graduating college and joining Influencers Club as an intern when they were just starting without a product yet, learning creator outreach and managing giant clients with an 8-person team, discovering the sales-automation combination when they couldn't keep up with replies, switching from influencer compliments and butterflies to corporate B2B language (which required unlearning some things), meeting Danilo who introduced her to Clay and became instantly obsessed with turning business mindset into working systems. She predicts every company will have an in-house GTM team because the community's collaborative spirit (roast-my-table sessions, zero gatekeeping, free knowledge sharing) will drive quality and growth, companies now see GTM engineers can both generate and save money, and the supportive "people helping people" culture is the leading force behind this space's expansion. Jana's advice: build campaigns with patience not pressure, establish a daily workout routine (workout quality directly impacts work quality), and start posting on LinkedIn where few people post so you have leverage. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:26) What Viralnetix Does: Strategic Partner Building Systems Inside Companies
(02:05) Hiring GTM Engineers (Creative + Analytical Combination)
(03:17) Journey: From Influencers Club Intern to Agency Owner
(04:01) Landing TikTok and L'Oréal at Age 22
(04:45) Handling 200+ Daily Replies by Integrating OpenAI with Make
(05:28) Switching from Creator Language to Corporate B2B
(06:16) Meeting Nikola from Influencers Club (Small World Story)
(07:29) Creative Campaigns: AI Agent Testing Shopify Checkout Flows
(08:21) Podcast Guest Outreach: Qualifying Companies, Matching Topics, Generating Questions
(09:29) Evergreen Campaigns That Work Without Touching
(10:22) Multi-Channel Approach: Email, LinkedIn, Instagram DMs for Creators
(11:24) Meta's Aggressive Legal Action Against Automation Tools
(12:05) Future Prediction: Collaborative Community with Zero Gatekeeping
(12:48) Roast-My-Table Sessions Between GTM Engineers
(13:30) Every Company Will Have In-House GTM Teams
(14:19) Advice: Build with Patience, Establish Daily Workout Routine
(16:49) Start Posting on LinkedIn (Leverage Advantage)
(17:11) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH JANA

👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website 

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes

In today's episode, I chat with Charlie Brown, a freelance GTM engineer, about building cold email systems for B2B SaaS and service companies (1-50 employees) that prioritize copywriting craft over template automation - treating personalization data as ingredients and the final email as the dish that matters most. 

We explore his creative enrichment approach that breaks clay tables into granular steps (20-30 personalization points per lead) rather than dumping everything into ChatGPT, then selectively weaving 2-3 points into natural copy that passes his personal reply test: "Would I respond to this?" Charlie shares his unconventional journey from SDR in London switching CRMs from Zoho to HubSpot (weirdly enjoying the migration process), leaving to travel and freelancing as a HubSpot consultant on Upwork/Fiverr, evolving into RevOps work connecting Apollo sequences with HubSpot enrichment and reply routing, stumbling onto Clay through a LinkedIn post ("what is this Google Sheets-looking tool?"), and discovering his LinkedIn feed suddenly flooded with 100+ new tools. He predicts we're approaching AI fatigue where prospects instantly dismiss AI-generated copy, the winners will stand out by sounding extremely human, and the future combines GTM engineers gathering warm leads with SDRs closing them at skyrocketing rates rather than one replacing the other. Charlie's advice: take LinkedIn content with a bag of salt (you're not behind, you're just new), start with pen-and-paper copywriting before force-fitting templates, and remember fundamentals never change - did your email make them feel something that makes them want to reply? 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:29) What a Freelance GTM Engineer Does
(01:08) The 90-Day Process: Warmup, Launch, and Iterate
(02:27) Favorite Part: Writing Copy That Gets Replies
(03:13) Creative Campaign: Granular Clay Enrichment (20-30 Points Per Lead)
(05:37) Mise en Place Analogy: Clay Work Is Prep, Email Is the Dish
(06:52) Copywriting Process: Pen-and-Paper Approach Over Templates
(09:26) Template Risks and Market Evolution
(11:35) Sequencing Philosophy: Why Email Over LinkedIn
(14:42) Journey: From HubSpot Consultant to GTM Engineer
(17:07) Future Prediction: AI Fatigue and Human Touch
(19:47) Advice: You're Not Behind, Just Start
(20:21) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH CHARLIE
 
👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Shakthi, Director of GTM Engineering at Thumbstop Media, about building custom outbound systems exclusively for AI companies that generate 7+ enterprise leads weekly through social signal detection and hyper-niche filtering. 

We explore his creative AI avatar campaign that embeds interactive clones of actual employees directly into messages (using tools like HeyGen at scale), letting prospects interact with avatars before scheduling calls - delivering enterprise leads worth 100K+ each by targeting only 0.7-1% of 70K weekly engagers who match strict ICP criteria. Shakthi shares his unconventional journey from spending a decade in customer success at SaaS startups (including Freshworks as one of the first 11 CSMs), quitting his job in Dubai to build his LinkedIn brand presence, discovering the lead generation side of LinkedIn, teaching himself Clay through multiple courses, and becoming the Clay Club chapter lead for Dubai while speaking at Clay events in Bangalore. He predicts GTM engineering will branch into specialized roles (GTM Ops, client delivery, technical builders vs client-facing), tools will shift toward natural language interfaces where founders can describe outcomes and systems build workflows automatically, and LLMs with MCP access will recommend exact ICPs and signals that work rather than forcing trial-and-error experimentation - all happening in months, not years. Shakthi's unique edge: combining business understanding from customer success (retention, value-add selling, competitive awareness) with technical GTM skills rather than just coding ability. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:25) What Thumbstop Media Does: AI Company Specialists
(01:04) The Process: Custom Lists vs Static Databases
(02:06) Social Signal Detection: Who's Actually Buying vs Doom Scrolling
(02:50) Clay for Data Orchestration + Lemlist for Multi-Channel
(03:25) Cautious LinkedIn Approach: Quality Over Volume
(04:14) Filtering Who NOT to Include in Lists
(05:03) Creative Campaign: AI Avatar Embedded in Messages
(06:01) Seven Enterprise Leads in One Week ($700K+ Pipeline)
(07:40) Signal Strategy: Keywords + Thought Leader Engagement
(08:18) Hyper-Niche Filtering: 0.7-1% of 70K Weekly Engagers
(09:16) Enterprise Deal Anatomy: 100K+ Pipeline Per Lead
(10:01) Multi-Channel vs Mass Volume: The Great Debate
(11:05) Prediction: Back to Manual Sending as Systems Detect Automation
(12:39) Journey: A Decade in Customer Success at SaaS Startups
(13:50) Getting into GTM: Building LinkedIn Brand in Dubai
(14:37) Teaching Himself Clay + Becoming Dubai Chapter Lead
(15:04) The Customer Success Edge: Business Understanding Over Pure Technical
(16:13) Future Prediction: GTM Engineering Will Branch Into Specialized Roles
(17:35) Natural Language Interfaces: Founders Building Without Technical Knowledge
(19:16) LLMs Recommending ICPs and Signals That Actually Work
(20:40) The Canva vs Figma Analogy for GTM Tools
(21:01) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH SHAKTHI

 👥 LinkedIn

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Patrycja, a leading GTM engineer, about building complete outbound systems that clients truly own and understand. 

We explore her creative job change detection workflow that validates whether leads got promoted, switched companies, or stayed put - combining HubSpot CRM data with LinkedIn enrichment and AI prompts to trigger signal-based sequences without relying on Clay's native signals feature. Patrycja shares her unconventional journey from spending hours manually researching prospects (browsing websites, hunting emails) to watching Clay automate it all in seconds, forcing her to evolve from market researcher to GTM engineer over five years in the outbound space. She emphasizes enablement over dependency - teaching clients the technical details of Clay, email automation, and CRM syncing so they can scale independently after a few months rather than staying locked into agency support. Patrycja believes GTM engineering might be fully automated in two years but isn't scared - she's staying flexible, learning new tools as they emerge, and excited about what's coming next rather than worried about job displacement. Her advice: stay on top of product updates (Clay ships new features weekly), build your prompt library through repeated client work, and maintain an open mind because the future is exciting, not frightening. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:22) What Patrycja Does as a Leading GTM Engineer
(01:04) The Onboarding Process: ICP, Tool Stack, and Budget Planning
(02:04) First 30-60-90 Days: Setup, Launch, and Enablement
(03:29) Analysis and Client Ownership of the System
(04:57) Why Enablement Matters More Than Dependency
(06:04) Shifting Client Mindset from Mass Mailing to Segmentation
(07:16) Most Creative Campaign: Job Change Detection Workflow
(08:13) The Challenge: Validating Real Job Changes vs LinkedIn Noise
(09:50) Solving the "Five Open Roles" Problem with AI Prompts
(11:08) The Need for an AI Babysitter Role
(12:12) Patrycja's Journey: From Manual Research to Clay Automation
(13:40) Blood Cell Story: AI Replacing Jobs Since 2015
(15:12) Staying Technical and Flexible in a Fast-Changing Space
(17:26) The Future: Excited, Not Scared About Automation
(18:41) Job Displacement vs Job Loss: Technology's Historical Pattern
(20:05) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH PATRYCJA

 👥 LinkedIn

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Faraz from ThynkGrowth, an AI-focused outbound agency specializing in consulting rather than full execution because companies increasingly want to build outbound in-house without agency dependencies - guiding teams to set up Clay flows and automated systems themselves. 

We explore his multi-channel sequencing strategy that scores prospects and pushes top 10% high-intent leads into LinkedIn sequences (email touchpoint → profile visit → connection request → DM) while others go through 3-4 hyper-relevant email sequences using annual reports, CEO commentary, and industry problem research to make emails look human-written rather than automated, plus his experiments with HeyGen for generating personalized videos with multiple angles and accent customization. Faraz shares client stories including performance marketing agencies struggling in crowded spaces and early-stage funded SaaS companies post-PMF, the common founder expectation challenge of "where are my results after two weeks of warmup?", and how LinkedIn comment engagement signals produce better response rates than Apollo/Prospeo lists since prospects are already active and engaging with relevant content. He recounts his unconventional journey from selling hoodies to four class sections at age 15 in school, building Delta Store selling consumer electronics through COVID (2020-2023) where he learned Facebook/Google ads and thought he was a performance marketing expert "only to realize every second person is," joining Go Marble in February 2024 where the founder said "don't do performance marketing, do demand gen" and shifted him from intern to full-time, learning cold email basics with only six months less experience than founders who were figuring it out themselves, owning entire GTM after 2.5 months of handholding, discovering Clay and web scrapers during June 2024's massive open rate slump when Google got stricter, segmenting e-commerce ad volume (high ad count = different message than low ad count), and getting a Sunday morning call from Zycus CMO who found him as a Clay creator and hired him as GTM engineer while he consults on the side. Faraz predicts the space moves so fast that what's exciting yesterday becomes normal today - Gumloop/n8n workflows got replaced by single GPT-4o prompts, Lovable + Apollo API LinkedIn scrapers became redundant when Claude got computer use - so he's waiting for his "aha moment" with full conviction before building something in the space rather than chasing trends. Faraz's advice: keep experimenting and throwing things at the wall because something will stick, focus on proof of humanness over automation signals, and leverage intent signals like LinkedIn engagement over static lists for better response rates.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:22) What ThynkGrowth Does: AI Outbound Consulting vs Execution 
(00:38) Focus on Guiding Teams to Build In-House vs Agency Dependency 
(01:24) Best Clients: Performance Marketing Agencies and Early SaaS Post-PMF 
(01:46) Performance Marketing Space Crowded, Hard to Get Results 
(02:19) SaaS Wants "Do It For Us," Agencies Want "Guide Our BD Team" 
(02:40) Client Story: "Where Are My Results After Two Weeks Warmup?" 
(03:14) Explaining Timelines: Month Minimum for Results 
(03:48) Common Founder Question: "When Do I Get ROI?" 
(04:05) Expectation Setting Key: Best Clay Table Won't Fix Misalignment 
(04:27) Operating in Competitive Spaces Makes It Even Harder 
(04:47) Channel Mix: More Email, Little LinkedIn Due to Limitations 
(04:58) Scoring System: Top 10% Hot Prospects to Multi-Channel 
(05:24) LinkedIn Sequence: Email → Profile Visit → Connection → DM 
(05:39) Regular Leads: 3-4 Email Sequences, Hyper Personalized 
(05:49) Checking Annual Reports, CEO Commentary for Problems 
(06:05) Industry Problems for Private Companies Without Reports 
(06:21) Goal: Make It Look Human-Written, Not Automated 
(06:36) Can't Rely on AI for Cold Calls Yet (Legal Question Mark) 
(07:09) Proof of Work: Show You Sat Down, Researched, Had 10-20 Tabs Open 
(07:19) Voice Notes and Videos Build Trust in Sequences 
(07:50) LinkedIn Comment Engagement Signals Respond More Than Lists 
(08:08) Active on LinkedIn = Easier Response 
(08:14) HeyGen Experiment: Upload Video/Pictures, Generate Script + Accent 
(08:36) Don't Want Video Looking Robotic, Wasting Other Efforts 
(09:16) Journey Started Age 15: Selling Hoodies in School 
(09:37) Four Class Sections, Bulk Orders, First Money Introduction 
(10:00) Delta Store (2020-2023): Consumer Electronics During COVID 
(10:14) Learned Facebook/Google Ads, Thought He Was Expert 
(10:26) "Every Second Person Is Performance Marketing Expert" 
(10:36) Go Marble Interview February 2024: First Formal Job 
(10:52) Founder: "Don't Do Performance Marketing, Do Demand Gen" 
(11:01) "Don't Come as Intern, Come Full-Time" Due to Hustle/Grit 
(11:26) Never Heard of Demand Generation Before That Day 
(11:36) Founders Had Six Month Edge, Also Figuring Out Cold Email 
(11:50) Month Learning Basics: Smartlead, Prospecting Setup 
(12:01) 2.5 Months Handholding, Then Full Ownership of GTM 
(12:23) Introduced to Clay, Web Scrapers, Learned Data Importance 
(12:36) June 2024: Industry Slump, Open Rates Tanking, Spam Issues 
(12:45) Google Got Stricter, Same Text = Spam Regardless of Reputation 
(12:54) Spray and Pray Doesn't Work, Build Smaller Focused Lists 
(13:09) E-Commerce Example: Scraping If Companies Running Ads 
(13:25) High Ad Count vs Low Ad Count = Different Messaging 
(13:41) Clay for Intent Signals: Hiring/Non-Hiring Personalization 
(14:07) Delta Store Taught Selling, Go Marble Taught GTM/Prospecting 
(14:17) Moved to Zycus March 2025 as GTM Engineer + Side Consulting 
(14:26) Sunday Morning CMO Call: "Saw You're Clay Creator" 
(14:37) Clay Too Complex, Need Dedicated Person, CRM Team No Bandwidth 
(15:22) Future: Entire Space Exciting, Yesterday's Excitement = Today's Normal 
(15:38) Can't Double Down on One Idea Because Everything Changes 
(15:45) Gumloop/n8n Workflows Replaced by Single GPT-4o Prompt 
(15:59) Lovable + Apollo Generators Redundant After GPT-4o 
(16:21) Waiting for "Aha Moment" with Full Conviction to Build 
(16:30) Claude Computer Use Recent Release: "Will My Job Be a Prompt?" 
(17:06) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH FARAZ

👥 LinkedIn

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Mathew Joseph, founding GTM engineer at Rwazi (a 20-25M ARR Series A AI SaaS for enterprise retail decision-making), about how GTM engineers serve as the centerpiece between marketing, sales, and product teams to identify product-market fit, 10x existing success, and find what's being missed in the market. 

We explore his creative social listening campaigns that generated 100K MRR monthly pipeline for a Google-funded 8.5M YC AI startup by focusing on golden influencers (relevant pages/people whose engaged audiences match your ICP on Reddit subreddits and Twitter), using AI to understand context rather than keywords since "the best thing in the AI age is having real interaction" per Sam Altman, and his spin stack approach to enterprise email infrastructure - personalizing emails in one Clay table, then randomizing those personalization in another so 20 daily sends from one mailbox all look different for longer lifespan, with sentiment analysis pushing only positive replies to CRM so sales focuses on selling instead of research and cleanup. Mathew shares his unconventional journey from instrumentation control engineer in India starting a five-year startup in 2015-2017 that failed but gave him "private MBA hard lessons" and business acumen, moving through nine-to-five roles to feel employee pain points, relocating to London when AI entered sales and Clay launched GTM engineering, and spending the past two years learning constantly because "Saturdays and Sundays is time for learning - if you're not, you're out of ammo." He predicts companies without GTM engineers in 2026 will be cavemen while those with them face tight competition as insights shared in communities get expiry dates before mass adoption, and billion-dollar companies will run with 55-100 people instead of thousands due to GTM engineering's 18:1 efficiency ratio (18 traditional roles = 1 GTM engineer + 2 salespeople). Mathew's advice: start with Clay but don't just become a Clay operator - keep learning constantly since both GTM engineering and AI are in early days, trust but verify everything (try tools like Claude Code even if you hate terminals initially), learn JSON/Python basics to understand how software engineers think and structure systems within systems, follow the 75% research / 20% testing / 5% execution approach to break and build things, and develop non-negotiable business acumen because moving the needle from 25M to 50M ARR requires asking the right questions and catching AI's 99% error rate with your eagle eye rather than swallowing everything it says.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:26) What Rwazi Does: AI SaaS for Enterprise Retail Decision-Making 
(01:01) "Who Doesn't Have Rwazi Is in Stone Age" 
(01:20) Mathew's Role: First Week as Founding GTM Engineer 
(01:48) Hired at Series A to Find and 10x Product-Market Fit 
(02:16) GTM Engineer as Centerpiece: Marketing, Sales, Product 
(02:44) Forward-Looking Clients Let You Define the Role 
(03:31) Two-Sided Coin: Internal Analysis + External Market Research 
(04:03) ICP Playbook Outdated, Building Agents to Find Middle Segment 
(04:43) Varun from Clay Calls It "GTM Alpha" 
(05:06) Creative Campaign: Social Listening for Google-Funded YC Startup 
(05:28) Social Signals Are a Turnaround, Not Downgraded 
(05:40) Sam Altman: "Best Thing in AI Age Is Real Interaction" 
(06:03) Recreating Human Touch Generated 100K MRR Pipeline Monthly 
(06:42) AI Understands Context, Not Just Keywords 
(06:55) Golden Influencers: Relevant Pages with Your ICP as Engagers 
(07:47) Fine-Tuning Approach to Find Right Signals in Noise 
(08:03) Email Infrastructure: Don't Put All Eggs in One Basket 
(08:47) SMBs/Startups Have Gmail, Enterprises Are Different Ballpark 
(09:06) Enterprise Requires Warm-Up, Zero Sales Words, Spin Stack 
(09:26) Spin Stack: One Table Personalizes, Another Randomizes 
(09:45) 20 Daily Sends from One Mailbox All Look Different 
(10:06) Sentiment Analysis: Only Push Positive Replies to CRM 
(10:49) Sales Focuses on Selling, Not Research and Cleanup 
(11:06) Journey from Instrumentation Control Engineer in India 
(11:23) Five-Year Startup 2015-2017: Failed But Gave "Private MBA" 
(11:44) Business Acumen from Hard Lessons Asking Right Questions 
(12:19) GTM Engineering Existed Before, Clay Made It Sexier 
(12:34) Data Is Broken, Holding Back Business Success 
(12:46) Clay's Waterfall Method vs Single Vendor Reliance 
(13:09) Employee View: Understanding Pain from Ground Level 
(13:31) Moved to London When AI Entered Sales, Clay Launched 
(14:11) Past Two Years: GTM Engineer Experience Same Age as Field 
(14:25) Saturdays/Sundays for Learning or You're Out of Ammo 
(15:04) Future Prediction: 18:1 Ratio (18 Traditional Roles = 1 GTM + 2 Sales) 
(15:18) Companies Without GTM Engineers in 2026 Are Cavemen 
(15:43) Insights Shared in Communities Get Expiry Dates 
(16:03) Billion-Dollar Company Run by 55-100 People 
(16:48) Advice: Starting with Clay Makes You Clay Operator, Not GTM Engineer 
(17:20) Constant Learning, Keep Mind Open, Try Before Rejecting 
(17:53) Claude Code Example: Hated Terminals, Now Uses Them Constantly 
(18:23) Learn JSON/Python Basics to Understand Programming Structure 
(18:54) Built Agency Inside Clay, Prompts Got Inefficient, Learned Tokens 
(19:21) 75% Research / 20% Testing / 5% Execution 
(19:44) Business Acumen Non-Negotiable: Can You Move the Needle? 
(20:33) Don't Swallow Everything AI Says - Find Errors with Eagle Eye 
(21:10) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH MATHEW

👥 LinkedIn 

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Jorge B. Macías, founder of The GTM Engineering Company, about his unconventional journey from industrial engineer who thought he was "too good at math" to become a salesperson like his dad and grandpa, to becoming one of the earliest employees at Puerto Rico's first Y Combinator company where he grew the AI startup from zero to $1.3M ARR as an AE while simultaneously implementing their CRM, cold calling systems, and contract-to-accounting integrations. 

We explore his creative Clay campaigns that flip conventional wisdom - finding signals companies are doing badly (layoffs, employee decreases, funding stagnation) instead of doing well since everyone targets the success signals, sending cold emails in multiple European languages (translating Portuguese/Italian back to English to validate quality), and literally screenshotting bad reviews about competitors' products with the message "if you don't want more reviews like this, hire us" which resonated strongly by highlighting something negative. Jorge shares his evolution from SMB AE doing volume and grunt work to mid-market roles at Boston/New York/San Francisco startups, then enterprise AE requiring surgical strategic prospecting, getting rejected from rev-ops positions despite his industrial engineering background and side projects because "you haven't been in rev-ops before," and finally making the jump to entrepreneurship when GTM engineering side projects earned more than his full-time salary. He predicts massive consolidation as siloed tools (Gong for calls, Outreach for sequences, ZoomInfo for data) expand into each other's territory to meet VC/PE/public market expectations, finding the right companies and people will become trivially easy with technology, so the real differentiator will be taste and creativity in crafting copy that triggers responses and drives purchases. Jorge's advice: get reps instead of falling into the learning rat race trap where watching YouTube videos and podcasts mimics productivity - AI won't replace your job, someone using AI will, so roll up your sleeves, build something, launch it, see how the market responds, and move to the next experiment because real value comes from doing the learning, not thinking about it.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:26) Jorge's Journey: Industrial Engineer "Too Good at Math for Sales" 
(01:16) Earliest Employee at AI Startup: SDR/BDR to AE 
(01:51) First Puerto Rican Company in Y Combinator 
(02:06) Growing Company 0 to $1.3M ARR While Implementing Systems 
(02:35) Doing Both Selling and Rev-Ops Work (2018-2022) 
(03:19) Jump from SMB AE to Mid-Market Across Boston/NY/SF Startups 
(03:45) Enterprise AE: Strategic Surgical Prospecting vs Volume 
(04:41) Naturally Drawn to GTM Engineering Tools as Industrial Engineer 
(04:53) Side Projects Earning More Than Full-Time, Made the Jump 
(05:38) Rejected from Rev-Ops Positions Despite Engineering Background 
(06:06) "You're Just a Seller" Despite Side Projects and Quota 
(06:38) Clients: Pre-Seed/Seed/Series A Tech Startups Globally 
(07:01) Spain, Portugal, US, Canada + Full-Service Providers 
(07:39) Creative Campaign: Finding Bad Signals Not Good Ones 
(08:00) Layoffs, Employee Decreases, Funding Stagnation Signals 
(08:34) Cold Emails in Multiple European Languages 
(08:50) Translating Portuguese/Italian to English to Validate Quality 
(08:58) Screenshotting Bad Reviews: "Don't Want More? Hire Us" 
(09:49) Every Campaign Has an Expiration Date 
(10:05) What Works Now Won't Work in a Year 
(10:53) Future Prediction: Consolidation of Siloed GTM Tools 
(11:09) Gong, Outreach, ZoomInfo Expanding Into Each Other 
(11:37) More Creativity and Taste Required Going Forward 
(12:25) Finding Right Companies/People Will Be Easy 
(12:46) Real Differentiator: Copy and Triggering Responses 
(13:20) Advice: Get Reps, Avoid Learning Rat Race Trap 
(13:43) Watching Videos/Podcasts Mimics Productivity But Isn't 
(14:05) "AI Won't Replace You, Someone Using AI Will" 
(14:19) Roll Up Sleeves, Build, Launch, See Market Response 
(14:32) Real Value From Doing the Learning, Not Thinking 
(15:14) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH JORGE

👥 LinkedIn 
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Eryk Lewandowski, founder of FlowBound and GTM lead at Scalers, about their intent-driven approach to outbound for SaaS companies specializing in LLM SEO and Reddit SEO. 

We explore his shift from crazy personalization to relevancy-focused campaigns that find signals on LinkedIn - scraping likes, comments, and follows on LLM SEO posts to identify prospects genuinely interested in the topic, then inviting them to workshops or sharing lead magnets rather than pushing for sales calls. Eryk shares his multichannel strategy of tiering clients by importance (top-tier STR accounts go to LinkedIn outreach with premium/Sales Navigator for higher acceptance rates, normal tiers go to cold email, unfindable emails get sent via LinkedIn), his surprisingly successful one-sentence barber shop campaign that outperformed a pain-point-heavy "creme de la creme" approach, and why he believes the digital customer journey requires eight touchpoints across three channels with strong CRM follow-up over six months. He recounts his unconventional journey from marketing associate at a web3 company in Finland that failed, getting contacted by that same founder six months later to do marketing for a Shopify SaaS where he taught himself cold email through Instantly tutorials and trial-and-error, launching FlowBound as a solopreneur working with various clients, attending Clay events in Poland (wearing his Woodpecker t-shirt), and joining Scalers three months ago because their LLM SEO vision resonated deeply. Eryk predicts the space will paradoxically get simpler despite more tools emerging - people are triggered by AI personalization now, so short functional campaigns with creativity will win over elaborate Clay tables and fake personalization about what someone ate for dinner. Eryk's advice: focus on relevancy over length, test constantly because there's no one pattern (Poland prefers longer emails, US wants short), keep fundamentals strong, and remember being a good person who helps others creates connections that pay off years later.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:23) What FlowBound Does: Solopreneur Project vs Scalers 
(00:35) Scalers Focus: GTM for SaaS, LLM SEO, Reddit SEO 
(01:24) Projects at Scalers: Intent-Driven Outbound 
(01:48) Targeted Small Lists vs Bulk Outbound 
(02:17) Opening Doors, Not Selling: Events and Lead Magnets 
(02:44) Shifting to Softer Approach vs Pushing Meetings 
(03:00) Relevancy Over Crazy Personalization 
(03:25) Copy Length Depends on Client (US Short, Europe Longer) 
(03:50) Avoiding AI-Generated Personalization 
(04:24) Finding Relevancy on LinkedIn: Scraping Likes and Comments 
(04:50) Signals from Following and Engaging with LLM SEO Posts 
(05:10) Inviting Prospects to Workshops Based on Intent 
(05:30) Social-Level Signals vs Website-Level 
(06:03) SaaS Has Huge Internet Presence for Finding Signals 
(06:15) Intent Campaigns + Backend Volume for Larger TAMs 
(06:50) Multichannel Strategy: Email, LinkedIn, Calling, WhatsApp 
(07:26) Tiering Clients: STR Accounts to LinkedIn, Normal to Email 
(08:02) Premium LinkedIn/Sales Navigator for Higher Sending Limits 
(08:25) Waterfall Enrichment in Clay for Missing Emails 
(09:10) Multi-Channel Importance + CRM for Long Sales Cycles 
(09:34) Seven Touches Over Six Months to Close Deals 
(10:04) Google Study: 8 Touchpoints Across 3 Channels to Convert 
(10:50) Journey from Web3 Marketing Associate in Finland 
(11:21) Founder Contacted Him Six Months Later for Shopify SaaS 
(11:45) Learning Cold Email Through Instantly Tutorials 
(12:08) Launching FlowBound as Solopreneur After SaaS Journey 
(12:34) Clay Events in Poland, Wearing Woodpecker T-Shirt 
(12:53) Joining Scalers Three Months Ago for LLM SEO Vision 
(13:14) Skills and Connections from Failed Projects Lead to Opportunities 
(13:37) Being a Good Person Creates Future Opportunities 
(14:27) Future Prediction: Simplicity Will Win Despite More Tools 
(14:50) 2025 Already Crazy with Changes from the Beginning 
(15:02) Functional Flows with Creative Soft Campaigns 
(15:21) People Triggered by AI Personalization Now 
(15:35) Prefer Short Straight-to-Point Over Dinner Personalization 
(16:04) PR Agency Example: "Want Forbes Feature?" No Personalization 
(16:38) Barber Shop One-Sentence Campaign Outperformed Pain Points 
(17:28) No One Pattern for Good Campaigns: Poland vs US Different 
(17:46) Keep Fundamentals Strong, Then Test 
(18:07) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH ERYK

👥 LinkedIn 

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.