The Hard at Work Podcast

This is an encore of episode 32, originally aired 1/14/26, but now with video.

What if the reason work feels exhausting, isolating, or unsafe isn’t your performance—but a breakdown of trust? In this episode of Hard at Work, Ellen is joined by author, keynote speaker, and workplace thought leader Minda Harts (Talk to Me Nice, Right Within, The Memo) for a deeply practical conversation about why trust is missing in so many workplaces—and how rebuilding it changes everything.
Minda reframes trust not as a “soft skill,” but as the foundation of healthy workplace culture, psychological safety, and strong leadership. Together, they explore why mistrust has become normalized at work; how ambiguity, control, and outdated leadership models erode trust; and why burnout, disengagement, and loneliness are often symptoms of trust breakdowns rather than individual resilience failures. Minda introduces her seven trust languages—including transparency, follow-through, feedback, security, and acknowledgement—and explains how small, intentional leadership behaviors can rebuild trust even inside rigid or fast-moving systems.
This episode is especially relevant for leaders and managers navigating return-to-office mandates, constant change, and pressure from above while trying to support teams below. It’s also for employees wondering what to do when trust feels broken. You’ll leave with practical scripts, reflection questions, and a powerful reframe: trust is not about being perfect—it’s about being human, communicative, and consistent. And when trust is present, work doesn’t just feel better—it actually works better.

Chapters

00:00 — Welcome + Introducing Minda Harts
01:27 — The Chief Trust Officer Mindset
04:30 — Why Trust is the Real Workplace Issue
06:51 — Trust, Loneliness, and Belonging
11:54 — Why Leaders Cling to Control
14:47 — The 7 Trust Languages + Practical Examples
22:50 — Trust, Burnout, and Speed Culture
27:23 — Flexible Work and Human-Centered Policies
32:06 — How Trust Impacts the Bottom Line
34:12 — What to Do When You Don't Trust Leadership
36:12 — Can Broken Trust Be Rebuilt?
43:26 — How to Have Hard Conversations with Respect
45:13 — Where to Find Minda + AI Trust Coach Tool

Keywords: burnout, workplace trust, leadership development, psychological safety, toxic work culture, employee retention, emotional labor, women at work, equity in the workplace, people management, trust in teams, workplace communication, manager training, feedback culture, remote work policies

Find Minda online:

Website | LinkedIn | Instagram | YouTube | Facebook

Buy Minda’s books here

Watch Minda’s LinkedIn Learning Course here

Show Notes:And if you’re interested in learning more about the Momentum Sessions, the three-session, affordable coaching package I announced during the episode, you can visit this webpage.

Originally released in 2025, we're re-releasing one of the most popular Hard of Work episodes, with neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank - with video for the first time.

What if your anxiety isn’t a flaw, but a built-in safety feature? In this episode of Hard at Work, Ellen sits down with Britt Frank—licensed neuropsychotherapist and author of The Science of Stuck and Align Your Mind —to explore the science of our brains, burnout, emotional patterns, and what it really takes to get unstuck. They dive into anxiety as a check engine light, how "micro yeses" create sustainable change, and why your brain resists even the things you want. Britt also shares why work should be human, not therapeutic, and how leaders can move from over-empathy to curiosity. If you're tired of blaming yourself for "not doing the thing," or if you lead people who are stressed, stuck, or burned out—this one’s for you.

Chapters

00:00 – Intro & Guest Welcome: Britt Frank 

01:00 – The "Real" Bio: Humanity Over Hype 

02:00 – Aerial Hoops and Perimenopause 

04:00 – What Is a Neuropsychotherapist? 

06:00 – Your Brain Is Not Your Enemy 

08:00 – Self-Talk and Stress Hormones 

12:00 – Anxiety as a Signal, Not a Diagnosis 

14:00 – Why We React Differently at Work 

17:00 – Emotional Safety vs. Role Clarity 

19:00 – Over-Empathy and Disempowerment 

22:00 – What Managers Are (and Aren’t) Responsible For 

25:00 – Fuzzy Roles Create Burnout 

28:00 – Why the Workplace Still Hasn’t Changed 

31:00 – Your Brain Doesn’t Want Change 

33:00 – The Power of Micro Yeses 

37:00 – Parts Work & Align Your Mind 

41:00 – The Inner Critic as a Coach 

44:00 – Getting Unstuck When You're Mid-Career 

48:00 – Feelings vs. Emotions 50:00 – TED Talk, Cookies, and Closing Thoughts

Keywords: Burnout, anxiety at work, workplace culture, neuropsychology, people pleasing, micro yeses, parts work, leadership coaching, emotional regulation, nervous system, trauma-informed leadership, women at work, stress at work, perimenopause and work, therapy-informed leadership

Show Notes:

Britt Frank’s Website

Follow Britt Frank on Instagram

In this episode of Hard at Work, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with organizational design consultant, KEXP DJ, and former Boeing flight test manager Jyoti Jani. Jyoti, founder of SPILLE Play and Chief of Staff at Seattle Arts and Lectures, breaks down why modern corporate environments leave professionals feeling perpetually drained. Together, they explore how to challenge outdated workplace norms, deconstruct "capture culture," and introduce psychological safety into high-stakes leadership environments.

The conversation dives deep into the neuroscience of play—redefining it not as a post-work luxury or child's activity, but as a crucial biological hack for learning, team performance, and creative flow. Jyoti shares a high-stakes story from her corporate engineering career at Boeing that exposed the disconnects in workplace hierarchies. She explains how tools like LEGO Serious Play and improv exercises lower the risk of experimentation, flatten organizational power dynamics, and build genuine trust among teams.

Ellen and Jyoti also reframe organizational culture as a "shared nervous system" and examine how individual burnout directly impacts collective performance. They unpack the definition of power—moving energy per unit time—and offer actionable advice on how to build coalitions, set firm workplace boundaries, and retain human creativity in the age of AI. Tune in to discover practical tools for reshaping corporate systems from the inside out, complete with a live improv exercise mid-episode!

Episode 50 marks a major milestone for the Hard at Work podcast as host Ellen Whitlock Baker reflects on the critical takeaways from the show’s first year. Over the course of 50 episodes, the overarching lesson is clear: it is entirely possible to build high-performing, successful organizations without forcing employees to sacrifice their mental health, identity, or personal lives. Challenging rigid corporate conventions—such as mandatory 9-to-5 office presence, constant availability, and soul-crushing meeting loads—is not only necessary for employee well-being, but essential for modern organizational health.

Achieving sustainable work requires addressing both systemic structures and personal mindsets. On an individual level, workers must engage in deep unlearning to confront internal "shadow voices"—engrained beliefs often inherited from childhood or societal pressure that equate exhaustion with self-worth and professional dedication. Simultaneously, organizations must acknowledge that standard workplace systems were historically designed around outdated demographics and profit or mission-driven model demands rather than human well-being. True progress occurs when leaders move away from viewing staff merely as resources to be consumed and instead build cultures rooted in mutual trust and psychological safety.

Highlighting actionable solutions, the episode showcases real-world examples of human-centric cultures, such as Her First 100K, which thrives using policies like remote flexibility, comprehensive parental leave, and intentional leave options. Grounded in insights from previous guests like Lindsay Jackson, Erin Gallagher, Sarah Jaffe, Vu Le, Jodi-Ann Burey, and Minda Hart, this milestone episode serves as both a systemic critique and a hopeful roadmap. It reinforces that treating employees as humans first enables companies to remain profitable and effective while fostering healthier, more resilient teams.

Can a high-trust, people-first company culture actually drive real-world productivity and business profitability? In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, host Ellen Whitlock Baker continues her discussion with Karina Patel, Chief Operating Officer at Her First 100K (HFK). Together, they dismantle the myth that sustainable workplace culture requires sacrificing performance, demonstrating how empathy and operational rigor can coexist to build a thriving, profitable business.

Karina breaks down how HFK achieves high productivity without coercive tracking metrics. She explains the architecture of their annual roadmaps, clear KPIs, risk contingencies, and mid-quarter check-ins that align every team member and contractor with overarching business goals. Beyond traditional revenue targets, Karina shares how HFK tracks "health scores"—such as member health, retention rates, and community impact—to measure meaningful success across non-financial outcomes.

Ellen and Karina also explore the intentional creation of a sustainable workplace. From normalizing vulnerability and unlearning the shame around workplace emotion to maintaining fluid, living employee handbooks, Karina offers a realistic roadmap for modern leadership. Discover how HFK integrates flexibility, clear scope-of-work reviews, and community-centric Slack channels (like "Nice Things" and "Squat Squad") to keep a remote team connected, engaged, and empowered.

Show Notes

• Find Karina Patel on⁠ ⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠
• Learn more about⁠ ⁠Her First 100K⁠⁠
• Listen to the⁠ ⁠Financial Feminist podcast⁠⁠ or get the NY Times Bestselling⁠ ⁠book⁠⁠
• Learn more about HFK's⁠ ⁠100K Club⁠⁠

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• Sustainable Productivity Without Surveillance: How to measure performance using clear roadmaps, KPIs, and risk contingencies instead of invasive productivity metrics.

• Building Psychological Safety & Empathy: Why normalizing vulnerability—including emotional expression and personal health needs—builds genuine trust and team cohesion.

• Non-Revenue Success Metrics: How to measure organizational impact through health scores, member retention, renewal rates, and user success milestones.

• Dynamic Scope-of-Work Management: Why job descriptions and service agreements must evolve annually to keep employees and contractors aligned with long-term goals.

• Living Handbooks & Policy Iteration: The importance of regularly updating company handbooks (e.g., AI policies) rather than treating workplace rules as fixed in stone.

• Connecting Behind-the-Scenes Work to Mission: How sharing community feedback (e.g., a "Nice Things" Slack channel) connects operational roles directly to client and audience outcomes.

How do you turn a bold, feminist vision into a thriving, people-centered company that supports millions of women? In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with Karina Patel, Chief Operating Officer at Her First 100K (HFK). Together, they explore what it looks like to dismantle toxic productivity, build intentional workplace systems, and re-architect traditional business norms to put human beings first.

Karina shares her journey from corporate marketing and non-profit development to leading behind-the-scenes operations alongside HFK founder and CEO, Tori Dunlap. She offers a transparent look into how she balances visionary ambition with operational reality—proving that a company can be both wildly successful AND center the humanity of its employees.

Ellen and Karina dive deep into HFK’s progressive HR policies, detailing the mechanics of truly supportive, human-first culture. From unlimited PTO (including menstrual and birthday leave) and four months of fully paid parental leave to remote work stipends and 26 company-wide paid days off each year, Karina breaks down why trusting employees with autonomy, setting firm communication boundaries, and unlearning the guilt of taking time off are essential for sustainable growth.

If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s actually possible to build a workplace that centers the needs of your employees and still be a raging success, this is a must-listen.

• Turning Vision into Operations: How a COO translates visionary ideas into sustainable, executable operational strategies.

• Deprioritization as Burnout Prevention: Why learning to say "no" or "not right now" protects team bandwidth and combats toxic productivity.

• Rethinking Unlimited PTO: The nuance behind HFK’s unlimited leave policy, including menstrual leave, birthday leave, and reasonable coverage plans.

• Radical Company-Wide Breaks: How HFK implements a full week off every quarter plus holiday downtime—giving the team 26 paid, company-wide days off each year.

• Leadership Modeling & Communication Boundaries: Why leaders must model offline behavior, shut off notifications at 5:00 PM, and decouple urgency from importance.

• Unlearning Work Guilt: Overcoming the myth that everything hinges on your constant presence, and realizing that healthy organizations run smoothly when you step away.

What happens when you stop running from your past and finally step out of performance mode? In this episode of Hard at Work, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with Matt Gilhooly—creator of The Life Shift Podcast—to explore how pivotal before-and-after moments shape who we are and how we navigate our careers. Matt shares the deeply personal story behind his podcast, starting with the sudden loss of his mother at age eight and how two decades of suppressed grief manifested as a relentless drive for perfectionism.

Together, Ellen and Matt break down what it takes to unlearn societal definitions of success. Matt reflects on taking a leave of absence from work and making the bold, unconventional choice to ask for a demotion from a director role to reclaim his time, mental health, and autonomy. They dive into the nuance of workplace dynamics, the danger of treating your employer as family, and how finding an outlet outside of work can completely change your relationship with your job.

Packed with vulnerability, this episode offers a permission slip to honor your mess, let go of unrealistic expectations, and take small, intentional steps toward living authentically. Whether you're navigating a career pivot, healing from loss, or feeling stuck on the corporate ladder, Matt’s insights will leave you feeling far less alone in your journey.

Key Takeaways

• Unlearning Perfectionism as a Coping Mechanism: Early trauma or loss often drives us to build a "perfect" exterior to avoid abandonment or criticism, but true healing begins when we drop the armor and acknowledge our feelings without judgment.

• Redefining the Career Ladder: Stepping down, taking a lower-title role, or shifting priorities isn't "career suicide"—it can be an intentional act of self-preservation that reclaims your power and mental health.

• Your Mess Is Your Message: Sharing your raw, unedited story creates a powerful ripple effect, allowing others to feel seen, validated, and permitted to process their own struggles.

• The Power of "Micro-Yeses": You don't need a massive, overnight transformation to change your life; following small sparks of curiosity (like writing, drawing, or starting a low-stakes project) builds the momentum needed for meaningful shift.

• Decoupling Identity from Work: While workplace community matters, viewing your job as a way to support your life—rather than the sole source of your identity—prevents burnout and restores balance.

Show Notes

Connect with Matt Gilhooly:

• Website: thelifeshiftpodcast.com
• Matt's books, including The Life Shift Journal

If this episode touched your heart or gave you a new perspective on your work and life, please leave us a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

In this episode of the Hard at Work podcast, host Ellen Whitlock Baker connects with executive career coach and Inspire Careers CEO Cathy Lanzalaco to send a powerful message: no matter how long you’ve been on one path, it's never too late to reinvent your professional life. Having successfully transformed her own career three times—pivoting from registered nursing to corporate HR leadership, and ultimately founding her own coaching business—Cathy brings a wealth of encouragement and practical insider knowledge. Together, she and Ellen explore how mid-career professionals can break free from feeling stuck, move past the fear of starting over, and step confidently into work that brings them joy.

The discussion provides an empowering blueprint for navigating modern job transitions. Cathy breaks down how to translate decades of experience into adjacent roles by focusing on non-negotiables, personal value, and incremental "bridge" steps. She shares why updating your career story is essential, warning candidates against sounding like everyone else through generic AI tools. Instead, she highlights how owning your unique human accomplishments and personal brand will help you stand out to recruiters and land roles where you are genuinely valued.

Ultimately, Ellen and Cathy remind listeners that work should be a meaningful contribution to your life—not something that drains your spirit. By letting go of what others think, building genuine professional relationships, and embracing career management as an ongoing journey, anyone can take control of their story. Packed with optimism and concrete advice, this episode is a rallying cry for anyone ready to unlock their full potential and build a career they love.

• It’s Never Too Late to Reinvent Yourself: Whether you’ve been in a field for five years or two decades, your skills are valuable and adaptable. You are never truly stuck, and you always have permission to write a new chapter.

• Focus on Adjacent "Bridge" Steps: You don't have to leap into the deep end immediately. Moving into adjacent roles or taking incremental steps allows you to pivot smoothly into work you love without overwhelming life changes.

• Release the Fear of Judgment: What other people think shouldn't dictate your happiness. The people who truly support you will cheer on your growth, and the rest aren't paying your bills!

• Showcase Your Unique Value: Ditch generic job duty lists and cookie-cutter AI content. Focus your resume on your unique achievements, real-world impact, and the distinct perspective you bring to the table.

• Relationships Create Opportunity: Networking isn't a chore; it's about making genuine connections. Surrounding yourself with supportive people and nurturing relationships is the single best way to unlock exciting new career doors.

Connect with Cathy Lanzalaco:

• Website: Inspire Careers
  

• LinkedIn: Cathy Lanzalaco on LinkedIn

Connect with Ellen & Hard at Work:

• Website

• Follow Ellen on LinkedIn

Unpacking the three unmistakable signs of chronic workplace burnout and how to reclaim your power while planning your next career move.

Have you ever found yourself staring at your laptop, completely miserable, wondering if it’s finally time to throw in the towel? You aren’t alone, and more importantly, workplace burnout is not your fault. In this solo episode of the Hard at Work Podcast, host Ellen Whitlock Baker tackles one of the most agonizing professional dilemmas: identifying when a job is truly unsalvageable. Navigating outdated corporate norms and high-pressure environments often leaves professionals feeling trapped by financial and security constraints, but staying stuck in chronic stress shouldn't be the default.

This episode dives into the data of toxic work cultures, highlighting three undeniable signs that it is time to quit your job. Ellen explores the heavy toll of persistent anger and resentment—backed by staggering statistics on burnout irritability—alongside the crushing weight of systemic exhaustion and intolerable workplace treatment. By challenging the toxic "give 110%" hustle mentality, this conversation reframes boundaries not as a lack of ambition, but as a mandatory preservation of your mental health. If you are irrationally angry at minor office conflicts or feel like you can never catch up on an infinite to-do list, your body is sending you vital data that your current workplace is no longer viable.

But what do you do when you can't walk out tomorrow? Ellen delivers a practical, empowering toolkit to help you survive a toxic job while executing your exit plan. You will learn how to ruthlessly edit your calendar, master the power of saying "no" to non-mandatory tasks, drop the performance of "busyness," and aggressively claim your hard-earned vacation and sick leave. Ultimately, this episode is a powerful reminder that your self-worth is entirely separate from your job title, offering the exact strategies you need to quietly reclaim your agency, protect your peace, and plan a transition to a career that actually respects your humanity.

Main Topics Covered:

• The clear boundary between difficult work experiences and severe mistreatment

• Recognizing signs that suggest it's time to quit, including chronic resentment, exhaustion, and intolerable treatment

• The importance of setting boundaries, saying no, and prioritizing yourself during transitional periods

• How systemic pressures drive burnout and unlearning harmful work culture narratives

• Practical steps to plan a departure safely and confidently

Timestamps:

• 00:00 - The line between tough work situations and harmful treatment

• 02:06 - How to know when it’s really time to quit your job

• 03:07 - Signs you might need to leave: burnout, resentment, overwhelming workload

• 04:56 - Why burnout isn’t your fault and systemic contributors to chronic stress

• 06:48 - Key signs including persistent anger, exhaustion, and intolerable treatment

• 09:10 - Challenging the "give 110%" mindset that causes burnout

• 10:36 - Recognizing when your workload and treatment become unsustainable

• 11:28 - How workplace toxicity like bullying or discrimination signals it’s time to go

• 12:45 - The importance of understanding your rights and options for leaving safely

• 14:09 - Personal story of reclaiming power and making intentional exit plans

• 16:00 - How to remind yourself of your worth and start the transition

• 17:23 - Practical boundary-setting strategies during your job transition

• 19:12 - The critical importance of using vacation and sick leave to support mental health

• 20:59 - Wrap-up: confirming the signs and embracing your worth

Resources & Links:

• Christina Maslach Burnout Research
• The study quoted in the episode is based on Maslach's work but is actually the Sydney Studies conducted in 2021 by clinical psychiatrist Professor Gordon Parker and colleagues.
• Schedule a 45 minute free consultation with Ellen if you're experiencing burnout or stress at work.

In this episode, Ellen Whitlock Baker discusses the difference between creating healthy workplaces that prioritize employee well-being vs. wanting a workplace where everyone is happy all the time. She emphasizes the need for leaders to anchor themselves in their core values, communicate transparently, and be flexible in their decision-making processes. The conversation highlights that a healthy workplace is characterized by trust, respect, and open communication, rather than a facade of constant happiness. Ellen provides practical tools for leaders to navigate tough decisions while maintaining a human-centric approach to leadership.

Takeaways

You can have a healthy workplace where people feel listened to, supported, and trusted.It's not possible to make everybody happy all the time.Knowing your core values isn't a nice to have, it's a must-have.When a decision feels easy, it can be because you're taking the easy way out.A healthy workplace isn't full of shiny, happy people holding hands (even though that would be nice).Communication is key in delivering tough news.Transparency builds trust and respect within teams.Your job as a leader is to be flexible and listen to your team.Expect that sometimes you're going to do things that might not make people happy.Don't create a miserable workplace; there's a difference between unhappiness and misery.

Keywords

healthy workplaces, leadership, core values, communication, transparency, workplace culture, employee well-being, human-centric leadership, burnout prevention, trust building

Chapters

00:00 Creating Healthy Workplaces: A New Perspective

09:03 Anchoring in Core Values for Leadership

14:54 Communicating Tough News with Transparency and Flexibility