The Hard at Work Podcast

Sarah Jaffe on capitalism’s “labor of love,” grief, and why you can’t meditate your way out of a rigged system

What if the heaviness you feel at work isn’t a personal failing — but capitalism doing what capitalism does? Labor journalist and author Sarah Jaffe (Work Won’t Love You Back and From the Ashes) joins Ellen for a wide-ranging, deeply grounding conversation about why so many of us feel exhausted, disillusioned, and even heartbroken by our jobs. Together, they explore how “do what you love” culture, hustle narratives, and nonprofit martyrdom have trained us to expect meaning, identity, and emotional fulfillment from work — and how devastating it can be when those promises inevitably fall apart.
Sarah breaks down why burnout is not an individual resilience problem but a structural feature of capitalism, especially in nonprofit, public-sector, care, and mission-driven work. Ellen and Sarah dig into how love-based narratives are used to justify low pay, chronic overwork, and understaffing; why crises like the 2008 financial collapse and COVID made these systems suddenly visible; and how gender, race, and class shape who is expected to sacrifice the most. If you’re a leader who feels trapped by money, healthcare, responsibility to your team, or a lack of alternatives, this episode names that reality without judgment — and without pretending there’s a simple solution.
This conversation also offers a different way forward. Instead of self-care checklists or meditation apps that ask you to adapt to a broken system, Sarah and Ellen talk about grieving what we thought work would be, reclaiming agency inside imperfect conditions, and thinking collectively rather than individually. You’ll hear practical ideas like power-mapping your workplace, building community instead of self-blame, and understanding why “it’s not your fault” is both emotionally freeing and politically important.

Show Notes

Find Sarah on her website and Twitter.

Books by Sarah Jaffe:
• Work Won’t Love You Back
• From the Ashes: The Remaking of the World

Listen to Sarah narrate both books on Audible.

Resources mentioned during the episode:

• Mia Tokumitsu’s book Do What You Love

• Kathi Weeks’ book The Problem With Work

• Karl Marx’s book Das Capital (where he compares capitalism to a Gothic monster as discussed)

• Molly Crapapple’s website

• Joshua Clover’s many books

• Ruth Wilson Gilmore’s works (she coined “capitalism saves capitalism from capitalism”)

• Your nonprofit boss Instagram (by Nicole Olive, follow her, she’s amazing)

• Melinda Cooper’s books

• Samhita Mukhopadhyay’s The Myth of Making it: a Workplace Reckoning

  
  

  Tags: burnout, work culture, labor, capitalism, workplace systems, productivity myths, hustle culture, emotional labor, grief at work, exploitation, management, leadership, toxic workplaces, women at work, gender and labor, class and work, workplace power, work and identity, modern work, organizing, collective care, boundaries at work, work isn’t broken—it’s working

  
  

A practical conversation about leadership and how trust (not control) drives retention, productivity, and healthier workplaces.

In this episode of the Hard at Work podcast, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with Minda Harts—author of Talk to Me Nice and a leading voice on workplace trust and leadership—to explore why trust is the missing foundation in so many modern workplaces. Drawing on Minda’s concept of the seven trust languages, the conversation breaks down how trust is built, eroded, and repaired at work—and why its absence fuels burnout, disengagement, turnover, and loneliness.

Minda explains that trust failures are often mistaken for performance issues, attitude problems, or resistance to change. In reality, mistrust grows through ambiguity, lack of transparency, inconsistent follow-through, poor feedback practices, and leadership behaviors rooted in control rather than care. The episode examines how these patterns show up in real workplace challenges, including return-to-office mandates, rigid policies, micromanagement, and fear-based leadership.

Listeners will learn how trust impacts productivity, retention, and workplace health—and why rebuilding it is both a human and a business imperative. Minda offers practical tools for leaders, managers, and individual contributors alike, including how to ask “What does trust look like to you?” in one-on-ones, how to repair trust after harm, and how to communicate difficult information without stripping people of dignity.

This episode is ideal for leaders seeking to create healthier workplace cultures, managers caught between pressure from above and responsibility to their teams, and employees navigating environments where trust feels fragile or broken. Rather than offering vague advice or toxic positivity, the conversation provides clear language, real examples, and actionable ways to rebuild trust one interaction at a time.

Show Notes

Get Minda's Book, Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace here

Minda's website

Follow Minda on LinkedIn

Minda's LinkedIn Learning course on trust
Minda as a Trust Coach on Google Labs’ Portraits

And if you're interested in learning more about the Momentum Sessions, the three-session coaching package I mentioned during the episode, you can find out more on my website.

Tags: trust at work, workplace trust, rebuilding trust, trust languages, Minda Harts, Talk to Me Nice, leadership trust, manager employee relationship, psychological safety, workplace communication, feedback culture, employee retention, workplace culture, healthy workplace, leadership development, modern leadership, HR and trust, burnout and boundaries, workplace burnout, toxic workplace recovery, return to office, remote work culture, hybrid work, change management, belonging at work, employee engagement, difficult conversations at work, boundary setting at work, equity at work, women at work, women leaders, women of color at work, inclusive leadership, humane leadership, workplace well-being, Hard at Work podcast, Ellen Whitlock Baker

A systems-level look at why “do more with less” is collapsing nonprofit leadership—and what sustainable organizations do instead.

What happens when passion-driven missions collide with unrealistic growth goals, broken governance, and chronic underfunding? In this episode of Hard at Work, I’m joined by nonprofit strategist and systems thinker Ariel Glassman Barwick for a powerful, honest conversation about what she calls the nonprofit death spiral—the cycle of overextension, undercapitalization, burnout, turnover, and declining impact that’s quietly unraveling organizations across the sector. We unpack how aggressive revenue targets, pressure to “do more with less,” and misaligned board dynamics create downstream harm for staff, fundraisers, and the communities nonprofits exist to serve.

We take a deep dive into fundraising burnout, moral injury, and governance failures, including why development roles are some of the most misunderstood and overloaded jobs in the nonprofit world. Ariel breaks down the constant “whiplash” fundraisers experience as they juggle wildly different skill sets, shifting expectations, and impossible goals—often without adequate training, staffing, or protection from inappropriate donor behavior. We explore how outdated donor-centric models, lack of management training, and inequitable power structures create ethical stress that drives talented professionals out of the sector altogether.

This conversation is also a roadmap forward. We talk about community-centered fundraising, human-centered leadership, contraction as a strategic choice (not a failure), and the real skills nonprofit leaders need right now—including patience, systems thinking, and the ability to truly receive feedback from their teams. If you’re an executive director, fundraiser, board member, or nonprofit professional feeling the strain of an unsustainable system, this episode will help you name what’s actually happening—and imagine what a healthier, more resilient nonprofit future could look like.

Show Notes:

Find Ariel on the Common Great website and LinkedIn.

Vu Le's book, Reimagining Nonprofits and Philanthropy: Unlocking the Full Potential of a Vital and Complex Sector

Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy study

Keywords: burnout in nonprofits, nonprofit leadership, nonprofit fundraising burnout, nonprofit governance, community-centric fundraising, moral injury at work, nonprofit death spiral, nonprofit executive director support, leadership coaching for EDs, sustainable fundraising strategy, toxic workplace culture, capacity building in nonprofits, nonprofit staff burnout, managing nonprofit boards, nonprofit sector challenges

After 30 episodes of saying the quiet part out loud, host Ellen Whitlock Baker closes out Season 1 of Hard at Work with a reflective and forward-looking finale. From people-pleasing and perfectionism to systemic burnout and the stubborn pace of change since the movie "9 to 5" came out 45 years ago, Ellen unpacks what she’s learned about why work still isn’t working — and what it will take to change it.

She looks back on the guests, the lessons, and the quiet revolutions happening in real workplaces, while issuing a challenge for the hiatus: take one step, however small, toward building the future of work we actually deserve. Because as the great Dolly Parton says: "the tide's gonna turn and it's all gonna roll your way."

Tags: burnout, workplace culture, women at work, leadership, boundaries, equity, systemic change, perfectionism, people pleasing, feminist workplace, future of work, Hard at Work podcast, season finale

In this episode of Hard at Work, host Ellen Whitlock Baker welcomes author, two-time founder, and Hype Women CEO Erin Gallagher for a candid conversation about women, work, and the shift from competition to collective power.

Erin shares the origin of the Hype Women movement—including that now-famous photo of Jamie Lee Curtis celebrating Michelle Yeoh—and explains why hype is a verb: it’s the choice to convert admiration into action by promoting, buying from, hiring, referring, and amplifying other women.

Together, Ellen and Erin name the conditioning that teaches women to compete for scarce recognition, how “mean-girl” behavior gets rewarded in professional settings, and why empathy without boundaries leads to chronic self-abandonment and burnout.

Erin offers a practical reframe for jealousy as a signal of desire—when someone else lands a keynote or book deal, ask how they did it, celebrate them publicly, and let your body learn the feeling of abundance.

The two dig into resentment, invisible unpaid labor, and the constant interruptions that drain women’s energy—connecting it to the $10.9 trillion of unpaid work women shoulder globally—and explore how anger can be a healthy messenger when it’s moved through the body: writing, running, singing at top volume in the car, painting, or simply letting yourself feel it.

They also discusses Erin's forthcoming book, Hype Women: Breaking Free from Mean Girls, Patriarchy, and Systems Silencing You (out October 14, 2025), which blends narrative with practical tools to help women stop equating worth with service.

Erin shares the line that changed her life: “I will no longer abandon myself in service to others.”

Listen for honest stories, tangible mindset shifts, and next steps you can take today to hype other women, reclaim your time, and build work that actually supports your life.

(Keywords: hype women, women at work, workplace culture, mean girls, patriarchy, boundaries, burnout recovery, abundance mindset, leadership, Jamie Lee Curtis Michelle Yeoh)

In this high-energy episode, host Ellen Whitlock Baker welcomes licensed neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank, author of The Science of Stuck and Align Your Mind, for a fast, practical tour of how your brain actually works—and how to get it working for you at work and at home. Britt explains that anxiety isn’t all bad; it’s the brain’s check-engine light, an alarm that asks for investigation rather than suppression.

Britt shares how we can convert overwhelm into forward motion using micro-yeses, comically tiny steps (think: shoes by the door, one sentence on the page) that slip past the brain’s change-resistance and build momentum over time.

The conversation distinguishes feelings (physiological signals like tightness or a racing heart) from emotions (feelings plus the story we add), and offers a quick self-audit to test whether your story is true before you spiral.

Britt also brings her signature parts work approach: treat your mind like a team, retrain the “inner critic” into a useful coach, and send unhelpful parts to the metaphorical green room until it’s their scene.

For leaders, Britt delivers a provocative reframe—managers aren’t therapists—and recommends replacing over-empathy (which lights up shared pain) with curiosity (which activates problem-solving), while designing conditions where humans can still be human.

Ellen and Britt also unpack why brains resist change (they’re wired for survival, not optimization), why insight alone can keep us “insightfully stuck,” and how to ask a better question: What am I willing to do today?

Listeners dealing with burnout, perimenopause shifts, career pivots, or post-pandemic malaise will leave with a brain-smart playbook for momentum: respect alarms, pick one micro-yes, use curiosity to de-charge tough moments, and align work with clear roles and lived values.

Keywords: Britt Frank, The Science of Stuck, Align Your Mind, neuropsychotherapist, micro-yeses, workplace culture, burnout recovery, anxiety tools, parts work, shadow work, leadership, curiosity vs empathy, role clarity, behavior change, emotional regulation, feelings vs emotions

In this Hard at Work episode, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with business coach Melissa Fackler of One Team Partners for a conversation about what it really takes to create a thriving, people-centric workplace. Melissa explains why most organizations don’t have a “work problem” so much as a “how we work” problem—and why band-aid solutions (like free yoga at lunch) won’t fix burnout, turnover, or disengagement.

Instead, she offers a simple but powerful cycle leaders can use immediately: Awareness → Structure → Habit.

First, awareness: surface the real issues, name tradeoffs honestly, and acknowledge that doing nothing is still a choice.

Next, structure: design lightweight, value-add systems (think: calendar blocking, simple hiring and onboarding flows, role clarity, performance rhythms) that make the right work easier to do.

Finally, habit: repeat the fundamentals until they’re automatic, then revisit awareness when something stops serving the team.

Throughout, Melissa and Ellen emphasize values as the filter for decisions and culture, not a poster on a wall. Melissa shares how One Team’s values—practice self-care, bring your whole self, be present, invest in relationships, commit to learning—keep the focus on people so the business can perform. She argues that leaders must “slow down to speed up,” accepting that metrics may dip while foundations are rebuilt, and she illustrates success with stories: a CEO who finally took a real vacation because decision rights and processes were clear; teams getting more done with fewer people after aligning roles to strengths.

The conversation also tackles AI with nuance: treat it like an assistant for drafts, notes, and summaries, not a replacement for human judgment or authentic communication.

For listeners stuck in difficult workplaces, Melissa suggests assessing value alignment, having earlier, calmer conversations, and auditing how often joy-giving work actually appears on your calendar. If you’re a leader wrestling with retention, employee experience, or scaling sustainably, you’ll leave with a practical blueprint to replace quick fixes with systems that reduce burnout, rebuild trust, and let your best work lead.

Keywords: healthy workplace culture, burnout at work, employee retention, leadership habits, values-driven management, simple systems, calendar blocking, people-first operations, organizational change, One Team Partners, Melissa Fackler, Hard at Work podcast.

In this solo episode of Hard at Work, Ellen Whitlock Baker shares three leadership mistakes she wishes she could go back and do differently — and the practical steps you can take to avoid them.

From listening less and talking too much, to modeling unhealthy work habits, to relying on vague job descriptions and biased review processes, Ellen unpacks why these common traps harm teams and what managers can do instead.

You’ll learn how to:

• Listen with curiosity instead of defensiveness
• Model boundaries and healthy work habits (instead of hustle)
• Create clear job plans and fair review processes that prevent burnout and bias

If you’ve ever wondered how to be the kind of manager people actually want to work for — start here.

Tags: leadership mistakes, management tips, healthy workplace, career clarity, burnout prevention, boundaries at work, fair reviews, leadership coaching, Hard at Work podcast, Ellen Whitlock Baker

What does it mean to actually live your values — even when it costs you something? In this episode of Hard at Work, Ellen sits down with executive coach, speaker, and visionary leader Lindsey T.H. Jackson to unpack the practice of unlearning, the courage it takes to align actions with values, and how mid-career women can reconnect with their authentic selves.

Lindsey shares powerful stories about walking away from VC funding to stay true to her company’s values, why anger is a signal of potential, and how leaders can move beyond fear to create people-centered workplaces. Together, Ellen and Lindsey dig into generational shifts at work, why “lazy ease” is toxic, and the everyday practices that help us return to ourselves.

If you’ve ever felt stuck between old rules and the possibility of something better, this episode will help you imagine — and build — a healthier, more authentic way forward.

Tags: Leadership, Women at Work, Workplace Culture, Unlearning, Authentic Leadership, Values-Based Leadership, Diversity and Inclusion, Anti-Racist Leadership, Boundaries at Work, Career Growth, Women in Leadership, Personal Development, Mid-Career Women, Coaching, Resilience

We’ve all done it: talked ourselves out of something we know would make life better. A walk. A tough conversation. A career change. But what’s really going on when you know you should do the thing…and you don’t?

In this solo episode of Hard at Work, Ellen Whitlock Baker breaks down the science of “blockers” — the protective part of your brain that sounds the alarm whenever something feels new, different, or risky. She explains how neuroplasticity works, why change feels so threatening, and the three simple steps you can use to prove your blockers wrong.

If you’ve ever found yourself stuck in the cycle of overthinking, avoidance, and regret, this episode will show you how to take tiny experiments that lead to big clarity.

Tags: career clarity, overcoming fear, burnout, blockers, start anyway, neuroscience, boundaries, clarity coaching, workplace change, stuck at work, Hard at Work podcast