The Hard Way With Joe De Sena

Robert Greene was 38, living in a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica after years of failed screenplays and dead-end jobs. Everyone around him seemed to be moving forward. He wasn't. Then a chance conversation in Venice, Italy, turned two decades of quiet observation into The 48 Laws of Power, a book that reshaped how a generation thinks about ambition, strategy, and human nature. Joe De Sena sits down with Robert to talk about building a life from nothing, twice. First as a writer who found his path late. Then again after a stroke in 2018 took much of his mobility but left his mind intact. That second rebuild became his newest book, The Law of the Sublime. They cover why years that feel wasted are often preparation in disguise, Sun Tzu's Death Ground principle, and the three-step process Robert prescribes for anyone who feels stuck or left behind: know yourself, experiment through action, and develop skills no machine can replicate. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why being broke and behind at 38 wasn't the end for Robert Greene, and how twenty "wasted" years became the raw material for The 48 Laws of Power.
2. The three-step process Robert uses to get unstuck, starting with a self-knowledge exercise most people skip entirely.
3. Why Sun Tzu's Death Ground principle generates more energy and creativity than any supplement or shortcut.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Life's Task Discovery: Journal about what excited you as a child. Identify what makes you different from everyone around you. Use that as a compass, not someone else's expectations.
2. Skill Stacking Through Experimentation: Don't think your way out of being stuck. Act. Try things connected to your life's task. Learn through doing. The brain is designed to develop through action, not theory.
3. Death Ground (Sun Tzu/33 Strategies of War): When your back is against the wall and there is no safety net, your energy and creativity spike. Manufacture that urgency before life forces it on you.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: Robert Greene and Joe De Sena on strokes, struggle, and 9 million books 0:50 Four applications, four rejections, and the textile department that said yes 4:13 Robert Greene's stroke 12:23 Broke at 38 in a one-bedroom apartment 14:48 Why you have to get off the couch 17:15 The 48 Laws of Power 25:06 The man who fell off a mountain and spent 20 years chasing the feeling 29:00 Sun Tzu's Death Ground 31:33 Three things to do when you are stuck 35:19 The Law of the Sublime Robert Greene is the author of seven bestselling books, including The 48 Laws of Power, The 33 Strategies of War, Mastery, and The Laws of Human Nature, with over 9 million copies sold in the United States alone. He wrote his first book at 38 after years of failed screenplays, dead-end journalism, and a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. A chance meeting in Venice, Italy, turned two decades of observation into one of the most influential nonfiction books of the last 30 years. In 2018, a wasp sting triggered a chain of events that led to a stroke, leaving him with limited mobility but full command of his ability to write and think. His eighth book, The Law of the Sublime, comes out of that experience, a book about what it actually means to be alive, written by a man who nearly lost the chance to find out. Connect to Robert: Website: https://powerseductionandwar.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/48LawsofPowerbook Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robertgreeneofficial/ X: https://x.com/robertgreene

Billy Billingham joined a gang at nine years old. By eleven, he had a criminal record. At thirteen, he was expelled from school. At fifteen, he was stabbed and nearly died in a hospital bed. Two years later he walked into military recruitment and never looked back. Joe De Sena sits down with the former SAS operator, one of seven to pass selection out of 283 candidates, to talk about the moment a boxing instructor changed his life, the day he saw a Falklands War veteran with a bullet hole through his face and decided that was the man he wanted to become, and why 70 to 80% of what he does now is giving back to the kids and veterans who need what he needed at nine. Things You Will Learn:

1. The mindset shift that took Billy Billingham from gang warfare and juvenile court to SAS selection, and why it started with one honest conversation with his father.
2. Why looking around and feeling outmatched on day one is an advantage, not a warning sign.
3. The one resource you cannot earn back and why wasting it is the only real failure.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Own It, Do Not Excuse It: Billy's father told him to be a thief before a liar. Owning the truth is the foundation of every correction that follows.
2. Day One Hunger: On the first day of both basic training and SAS selection, Billy looked around and saw people who were bigger, stronger, and more experienced. He used that feeling to stay humble, stay hungry, and outlast 276 of them.
3. Time Audit: Time is the only resource you cannot replace. Every hour on the couch is an hour you chose not to move forward. Progress does not require speed. It requires motion.

Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Billy Billingham, SAS veteran and original Peaky Blinder 0:21 Gang member at nine, criminal record by eleven 2:15 Kids know right from wrong 5:06 Learning weapons, maps, and medical training at eleven 6:56 Joining the military at 17 8:26 Walking three miles to school with cardboard in his shoes 09:49 SAS selection: 283 started, 7 finished 13:15 What he would change 16:01 Joe offers Spartan events 19:00 Advice for anyone stuck on the couch Billy Billingham grew up in the West Midlands near Birmingham, England, the same streets that inspired Peaky Blinders. He joined a gang at 9, had a criminal record by 11, was expelled from school at 13, and was stabbed and nearly killed at 15. At 17, with no education past age thirteen, he enlisted in the British Army and joined the Parachute Regiment, one of seven to pass out of seventy who started. After nine years of airborne service and combat, he passed SAS selection, again one of seven, this time out of 283 candidates. He went on to serve in the Special Air Service across multiple operational tours. Now 61, Billingham is known internationally through the TV series Special Forces: World's Toughest Test and SAS: Who Dares Wins. Connect to Bill: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBillinghamSAS/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/billingham22b/ X: https://x.com/billingham229b? We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

Jovon "Q" Quarles grew up on the northeast side of Washington, D.C., with a drug-addicted mother, no father, and a crack house across the street. His grandparents raised him: his grandfather, an Army veteran they called "The Bear," and his grandmother, an amputee who could never attend his games but kept newspaper clippings of every one. She moved him to rural North Carolina, held him to a standard, and when he had two kids before graduating high school, she forced him into the Navy. Joe De Sena sits down with Jovon to trace the full arc from D.C. to BUD/S, including the Tuesday morning in Hell Week when Q rang the bell, felt instant regret, and had to rebuild his entire identity around ownership to earn a second attempt. He graduated top of his class. His grandmother never saw it. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why ringing the bell in Hell Week taught Q more about ownership than any mission he ran afterward.
2. The specific mindset shift that turned a kid with no parents and a terrible GPA into a top-of-class SEAL graduate.
3. What the victim mentality costs you, and the exact moment Q stopped using it.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Finish What You Start: Q's grandparents drilled one rule: if you begin something, you complete it. That principle carried him from high school sports through BUD/S and a full SEAL career.
2. Ownership Over Victimhood: After getting kicked from his first Navy program, Q blamed the Navy. That victim response almost ended his trajectory. The shift to personal ownership unlocked everything that followed.
3. Hunger as an Edge: Growing up without parents, money, or stability built a drive that kids from comfortable backgrounds rarely develop. Q treats that hunger as a competitive advantage, not a disadvantage.

Chapters:0:00 Intro: Who is Jovon "Q" Quarles?2:42 Growing up on the northeast side of Washington, D.C.8:54 Moving to rural North Carolina and starting over11:15 The edge that comes from growing up with nothing13:20 Why the military was not seen as an opportunity in Black families in the 80s and 90s15:23 How his grandmother got him into the Navy19:07 Two kids before graduating high school24:54 What it actually takes to commit to becoming a Navy SEAL31:08 Tuesday morning: Q rings the bell, instant regret34:13 Getting cast on Special Forces: World's Toughest Test41:02 The book: Why Not Me

Jovon "Q" Quarles was born in 1980 on the northeast side of Washington, D.C. His mother was a drug addict in and out of prison. He never knew his father. His grandparents raised him: his grandfather, an Army veteran they called "The Bear," and his grandmother, a diabetic amputee who moved him to rural North Carolina and held him to a standard that shaped the rest of his life. He had two kids before graduating high school. His grandmother forced him into the Navy in 1999. He was kicked out of his first program for lack of discipline, embraced ownership, found the SEAL teams after the Iraq War started, rang the bell in Hell Week, came back, and graduated at the top of his BUD/S class. His grandmother passed before she could see it. Jovon served a full career in the SEAL teams and now appears as Directing Staff on Special Forces: World's Toughest Test (Fox/Hulu, Season 5 premieres September 24). His book, "Why Not Me?", is forthcoming. Connect to Jovon: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jovonquarles/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/jovonquarles Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jovonpquarles Elite Seal Fit: https://elite-self.com/

Rudy Reyes is a Recon Marine who grew up in a boys' home, lost brothers to combat and suicide after service, and now leads military selection courses on Fox's Special Forces and the UK's SAS Who Dares Wins. Joe De Sena sits down with Rudy to break down what happened when Season 5 moved into the jungle: 100% humidity, 105-degree heat, cobras, scorpions, and contestants dropping within days. They dig into why Marine Corps culture produces a different kind of person, why harsh physical conditions change lives in ways therapy and motivation cannot, and how Rudy stayed relevant after combat by never stopping training. Rudy also shares his path to Heat 2, the upcoming film from director Michael Mann, and the boys' home discipline that made everything else possible. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why Marine Corps culture builds a different standard than any other branch, and what that culture actually demands.
2. The reason harsh physical conditions produce life change that motivation, therapy, and comfort cannot replicate.
3. What a military selection show reveals about who actually quits and who surprises everyone by lasting.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Equal Load: Whether 110 pounds or 300, the weight is the same. Removing special treatment forces honest performance and reveals who has trained their mind, not just their body.
2. Harsh Conditions as the Mechanism: The transformation people report after Spartan races and military selections is not from coaching or inspiration. It is from sustained physical discomfort that resets the nervous system and strips away excuses.
3. Attack the Day Protocol: Get blood flowing immediately. Sing, pace, squeeze. Speak your day into existence before the world speaks it for you. Start physical before you start mental.

Special Forces: World's Toughest Test premieres Thursday, Sept. 24 at 9/8c on FOX, next day on Hulu. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Rudy Reyes, Recon Marine, and his first Spartan race at Killington 0:51 Joe meets Rudy for the first time 15 years ago 1:57 Racing together in Sparta, Greece 2:39 Why Marine Corps culture produces a different kind of person 4:25 The living room gym, lost brothers, and staying relevant after combat 8:53 Special Forces on Fox 09:55 Season 5 in the jungle 11:32 The jungle will kill you long before you see the enemy 12:30 Why harsh conditions change lives when nothing else does 14:13 Heat 2 with Michael Mann: The movie role of a lifetime 19:29 Three things for people stuck on the couch 21:03 Joe's son: Number one wrestler in the country at 157 pounds Rodolfo "Rudy" Reyes is a Recon Marine who grew up in a boys' home in the Midwest, earned his place through discipline and grades, and went on to serve in some of the most intense combat operations of the Iraq War. He is known worldwide from HBO's Generation Kill, the BAFTA-winning documentary Once Upon a Time in Iraq, and as a lead instructor on Fox's Special Forces and the UK's SAS Who Dares Wins alongside Billy Billingham and Jason Fox. Season 5, filmed in the jungle, premieres this fall. He has been cast in Heat 2, directed by Michael Mann. Rudy trains every day, everywhere he goes, and considers staying physically sharp a way to honor the brothers he has lost. Connect to Rudy: Website: https://rudyreyes.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realrudyreyes/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudy-reyes-6aa1ba37/ Threads: https://www.threads.com/@realrudyreyes

Ashley Hunter walked away from investment banking to teach kids how to move. Fifteen years later, Fit Kids operates in 195 schools across 13 states and has reached roughly 500,000 children. Joe De Sena sits down with Ashley to talk about why kids who already face hard lives every day benefit most from structured physical activity, how her program turns reluctant participants into kids who say burpees are their favorite exercise, and what any parent can do at home with zero equipment and zero money. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why low-income kids in under-resourced schools lose access to physical activity first, and what Fit Kids does to reverse it.
2. The approach that turns kids who are afraid of exercise into kids who request burpees by name.
3. What any parent can do at home with bodyweight exercises and zero budget to build physical confidence in their children.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Make Fitness the Game: Embed burpees, lunges, and squats inside obstacle courses and relay races so kids associate effort with fun, not punishment.
2. "You Can Do Hard Things. Period.": One sentence, no negotiation. Use it as a universal response when a child says something is too hard. End the conversation there.
3. Free Bodyweight Protocol for Home" Push-ups, burpees, lunges, squats. No equipment. No cost. Available through fitkids.org for any parent who asks.

Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Ashley Hunter has reached 500,000 kids through fitness 1:29 Growing up in Wayzata, Minnesota, with three sisters and a dad who wanted a boy 02:21 From investment banking to teaching to founding Fit Kids 3:44 How Fit Kids started at one school and grew to 195 5:44 Jay Jackson: the Green Beret's son who trained in the dark and disarmed an attacker 7:40 Physical activity teaches kids how to persevere through hard lives 8:43 The hardest part of running Fit Kids: having to say no to schools that need it 10:34 Kids who start the year afraid of exercise and end it asking for more 12:53 What parents without a program can do at home for free 13:46 How Spartan and Fit Kids partner to get kids to races at Dodger Stadium 18:55 The biggest resistance Ashley Hunter grew up in Wayzata, Minnesota, played sports year-round, and went into investment banking before realizing finance was not where she belonged. She taught school, then founded Circle of Friends (now Ambassadors) to connect young parents with Stanford's Lucile Packard Children's Hospital. Fifteen years ago, she walked onto a school playground and started teaching kids sports after school. That one-school experiment became Fit Kids, now operating in 195 schools across 13 states, serving roughly 30,000 kids per year and approximately 500,000 total. Fit Kids targets low-income children at under-resourced schools, delivering structured physical activity programs where PE budgets have been cut. She has four kids. One of them plays SEC football. Connect to Ashley: Website: https://fitkids.org/our-team/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlhunter/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fitkidsfoundation⁠

Joe De Sena sits down with Tyler Andrews, a cancer survivor turned elite endurance athlete who just set the fastest known time from Everest Base Camp to the summit: 9 hours and 55 minutes, breaking a 23-year-old record held by Lakpa Gelu by over an hour. This episode breaks down exactly how Tyler trained for Everest with hypoxic machines simulating 38,000 feet, a 6,000-foot mountain climb five days a week out his back door in Quito, and a strength program built with a Tour de France-level performance lab. They also dive into why a decade of consistency matters more than early talent, how to structure altitude and endurance training for extreme goals, and what it took to outpace a record that stood for over two decades. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why the athlete who was not even the best runner on his Division Three team eventually broke a 23-year Everest speed record.
2. The specific training structure Andrews used to prepare for a single-push summit attempt: hypoxic sessions, uphill volume, and strength work.
3. What aplastic anemia survival at age six taught him about patience, gradual progress, and not boxing yourself into one identity.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Progressive Distance Scaling: Start at the distance where you are competitive, then move up one level at a time. 5K to 10K to half marathon to marathon to 50K to FKT to Everest. Each step confirms the next is possible.
2. Hypoxic Layering: Train at moderate altitude daily (10,000 feet), add simulated extreme altitude on a stationary bike (up to 38,000 feet) for 10–12 hours per week, and stack that on top of sport-specific uphill volume.
3. Decade Rule: Do not expect overnight results. A decade of consistent love of the process and daily grinding is what separates mediocre early performance from record-breaking later performance.

If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Cancer survivor, Everest speed record holder 1:28 Diagnosed with aplastic anemia at age six 3:07 How childhood illness shaped his personality and perspective 4:41 What a six-year-old remembers about cancer treatment 6:30 Aplastic anemia recovery: never cured, always in remission 8:00 The high school coach who changed everything 9:55 PRing every weekend and falling in love with running 10:39 From 5K to marathon to 50K to FKT to Everest 12:32 What FKT means and how the fastest known time world works 14:02 Spartan CTA: Sign up for something hard 14:39 How Tyler trained for the Everest speed record 17:51 The team behind the attempt: Human Powered Health 19:12 The record: 9 hours 55 minutes, beating a 23-year mark by 61 minutes 20:24 What is next: the book, the film, and what he cannot say yet 21:14 Three lessons from Tyler 23:36 Where to find Tyler Andrews and his podcast with his dad Tyler Andrews was diagnosed with aplastic anemia at age six and underwent experimental chemotherapy that destroyed and regrew his bone marrow. He was not an athletic kid: small from the chemo, hyperactive, drawn to music and science. A high school cross-country coach dared him to train consistently, and he fell in love with running after PRing every weekend for a month straight. He ran NCAA Division III, turned professional, made two Olympic marathon trials, won a silver medal at the 50K World Championships, and eventually transitioned to the fastest-known-time circuit during COVID. He now holds the Everest Base Camp to summit speed record at 9 hours and 55 minutes, breaking a 23-year-old mark by over an hour. He lives and trains in Quito, Ecuador, at 10,000 feet. Connect to Tyler: Website: https://www.tylercandrews.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tylercandrews/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@TylerCAndrews Chaski Foundation: https://givebutter.com/chaskifoundation If we could link to my website (tylercandrews.com and socials @tylercandrews on IG and YT mainly), that would be great. Also a link to our fundraiser where we have raised almost $70K to support youth athletes in Nepal and Ecuador (), that would be amazing!

Joe De Sena opens this Labor Day episode with a direct question: what does it actually look like to show up every day, year after year, with no days off? Six-time Ironman World Champion Mark Allen, now 67, explains why consistency beats intensity at every age and how to stop competing with your younger self. Olympic strength coach Dane Miller breaks down the ESSE framework for matching training to any goal and names the three lifts most athletes avoid because they are hard: front squat, pull-up, and snatch. Iron Cowboy James Lawrence shares a pen-and-paper method for getting unstuck: write down everything in your head, cross out what you cannot control, and focus on what remains. Navy SEAL Leif Babin explains why actual combat was harder than Hell Week and how extreme ownership turns failure into the foundation for resilience. This episode delivers four direct perspectives on the same principle: daily work is the only strategy that compounds. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why consistency matters more than volume, speed, or intensity, especially after 40.
2. The three resistance training movements that transfer to every sport and why most people avoid them.
3. A pen-and-paper method for breaking through fear-based paralysis when you feel stuck.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. ESSE Framework: Evaluate every training goal through four lenses: Endurance, Strength, Speed, Explosiveness. Adjust gym time based on which lens your sport or life demands most.
2. Pen-and-Paper Reset: When stuck, write down every thought. Cross out what you cannot control. Focus only on what remains. Repeat daily.
3. Accountability Anchor: Find one simple, daily accountability tool and use it to remove the decision of whether to train.

If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 0:00 Intro - Joe De Sena on Labor Day and the people who do the work 1:55 Mark Allen - Consistency, accountability, and why it is the only variable that matters at 67 6:59 Dane Miller - The ESSE framework, cyclical fitness trends, and the three lifts that stand the test of time 13:43 James Lawrence - Entrepreneurship as Sisyphus, letting go of control, and the pen-and-paper method for getting unstuck 17:00 Leif Babin - Why combat was harder than Hell Week, extreme ownership, and hanging on a little longer 20:07 Closing - Barry Hearns on why the gift of labor is the gift of life Mark Allen is a six-time Ironman World Champion and one of the most dominant endurance athletes in triathlon history. His 1989 battle with Dave Scott at Kona is considered the race that launched the modern era of Ironman. Now 67, Mark coaches triathletes and remains an active surfer, cyclist, and functional fitness practitioner in Santa Cruz, California. Dane Miller is a master strength coach specializing in Olympic weightlifting and athletic performance. He has coached athletes to Olympic medals, world championships, and national titles across weightlifting, wrestling, and throwing events. He operates Garage Strength out of southeastern Pennsylvania and runs the Peak Strength training app. James Lawrence, known as the Iron Cowboy, completed 50 Ironman-distance triathlons in 50 consecutive days across all 50 U.S. states, then followed it with 100 consecutive Ironmans during the Conquer 100 challenge. A bike crash on day 59 left him with multiple concussions and a cracked L5 vertebra. He spent three years in brain clinics rewiring neurological pathways before returning to competition. His latest book, Iron Hope, and the Emmy-nominated Conquer 100 documentary are both available now. Leif Babin is a former Navy SEAL officer who led SEAL platoons in the Battle of Ramadi during some of the most intense urban combat of the Iraq War. He co-founded Echelon Front with Jocko Willink to bring battlefield leadership principles to business and civilian life. He also co-authored the bestseller Extreme Ownership.

Andy Stumpf's BUD/S class started with 180 students. 18 graduated. As a BUD/S instructor years later, he got to do something most SEALs never do: sit down with the hundreds who quit and ask them why. The answer was almost always the same. Joe De Sena talks with Andy, a retired SEAL Team Six operator who was shot during a 2005 deployment, spent eighteen months rehabbing neuropathic nerve damage, and went on to fly charter jets, jump professionally, open a Black Rifle Coffee outpost in Montana, and write the book Drown Proof. This episode breaks down why the students who quit SEAL training all collapsed the same way, what the difference is between telling someone a run is four miles and telling them to run until you say stop, and why momentum matters more than knowing exactly where you are headed. Things You Will Learn:

1. The single pattern that appeared in nearly every SEAL training dropout, and why it applies to any goal you have set and abandoned.
2. Why starting to move matters more than knowing exactly where you are going.
3. What changes when you shift from macro goals to micro execution under pressure.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. Momentum Over Azimuth: Start moving before you have a perfect plan. Paralysis comes from needing the destination to be clear before taking the first step. Movement creates clarity. Stillness creates doubt.
2. Macro Goal, Micro Living: Set the big target, then forget it. Shrink your world to the next step, the next hill, the next rep. The students who quit SEAL training all failed the same way: their view of time expanded until the distance between where they stood and the finish overwhelmed them.
3. Ask for Help as Strength: The toughest people Stumpf has known all share one trait: when they hit the limit of their knowledge, they find an expert. When they are struggling, they ask. Nobody can read your mind. Until you ask, the people who care about you cannot help you.

'Heads up! I'll be a judge at The Baker House Challenge - A live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Myself, Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live here on YouTube August 29. Or Go to https://www.bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Andy Stumpf, retired SEAL Team Six, now owns a coffee shop 4:23 A mason father and the lessons that carried forward 6:09 Joined the military at 17, barely graduated high school, never looked back 8:52 Why he has never once wished he went to college 11:19 Post-military life: aviation, skydiving, base jumping, coffee, and figuring it out 13:07 The book Drownproof 14:35 When did the loneliness epidemic start, and what phones have to do with it 21:59 Camaraderie is suffering plus laughter 24:24 Getting shot in 2005 26:54 Why the worst thing that happened became the best thing twenty years later 28:58 Three tools for anyone who feels stuck: momentum, shrink your world, ask for help 33:08 The job of a BUD/S instructor is to remove hope 39:53 The four-mile run experiment: same distance, different framing, different quit rates 41:18 Nobody can make you quit except yourself Andy Stumpf grew up in Santa Cruz, California, the son of a brick mason whose family had laid stone for three generations. At eleven, his father mentioned the Navy SEALs once, and the idea absorbed every decision that followed. He enlisted at seventeen, barely graduated high school, and never looked back. Andy served ten deployments as a SEAL Team Six operator. In 2005, he was shot during a mission, suffered neuropathic nerve damage, and spent eighteen months rehabbing as a BUD/S instructor, where he studied why the vast majority of candidates quit on their lifelong goals. Andy got commissioned as an officer without a college degree, finished his career on a West Coast team, and went on to fly charter jets, jump professionally, teach skydiving, launch a nine-year podcast, and open a Black Rifle Coffee outpost in Kalispell, Montana. His book, Drown Proof, was published in April 2025. Connect to Andy: Website: https://thestringbean.co/about/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestring.bean/?hl=en YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ClearedHotPodcast X: https://x.com/AndyStumpf77

Richard Baker raised $700 million in February 2021 and burned through it in three years. Adam Weitsman served time in federal prison, lost his ego, and rebuilt his business with a level of discipline he did not have before. In this episode of The Hard Way, Joe De Sena sits down with both entrepreneurs to break down what really separates the people who survive in business from the ones who fold. Richard shares his "zoo bears vs. jungle bears" framework: the era of safe corporate jobs is changing, and entrepreneurs need to learn how to live on what they kill. Adam explains why he checks an entrepreneur's social media before hearing their pitch, because lifestyle often reveals work ethic faster than a slide deck. They cover capital as both a lifeline and a curse, why Adam runs on three hours of sleep while Richard protects his eight, what failure teaches you, and what they will be looking for when founders pitch live at the Baker House Challenge at Cornell University on August 29. Things You Will Learn

1. Why Richard believes the world is moving from "zoo bears" to "jungle bears," and what that means for the next generation of entrepreneurs.
2. Why Adam looks at how founders live before he listens to what they pitch.
3. How capital can either fuel growth or make a business sloppy.
4. Why discipline, resilience, and execution matter more than having a good idea.
5. What separates entrepreneurs who can take a hit from those who quit when things get hard.

Tools & Frameworks Covered

1. Zoo Bears vs. Jungle Bearsa. Corporate life trains people to perform for safety. Entrepreneurship forces people to hunt, adapt, and survive on their own.
2. Fail Small, Win Biga. Richard's approach is to risk as little personal capital as possible, keep failures small, and scale the wins when they come.
3. Social Media Audita. Adam checks how entrepreneurs live before he evaluates their pitch. If their lifestyle does not match their claimed work ethic, that tells him everything.

The Baker House Challenge is a live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman, Joe De Sena, and special guests for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live on YouTube August 29. Go to bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Joe De Sena with Richard Baker and Adam Weitsman 0:56 Adam on going to prison and losing his ego 2:18 Richard on failing small and winning big 3:14 Zoo bears vs. jungle bears: Why the corporate era is ending 5:27 The pandemic 5 AM calls that kept entrepreneurs alive 10:32 Access to capital vs. time: The two biggest limiting factors 11:44 Richard raised $700 million and burned through it in three years 13:30 The real cost of going all in 15:21 Adam checks an entrepreneur's social media before hearing the pitch 18:05 Speed of execution as a competitive advantage 20:00 200 organized houses vs. 10,000 messy houses 22:43 The Baker House Challenge at Cornell Richard Baker is an entrepreneur and investor known for large-scale real estate and retail ventures. He raised $700 million in February 2021 and has built his career on a philosophy of using as little personal capital as possible: failing small and winning big. He spent 17 years working alongside his father, learning the business through daily questions from the age of 12. He is the founder of Baker House, a community and platform designed to connect, mentor, and support the next generation of entrepreneurs. The Baker House Challenge at Cornell University on August 29 brings together founders to pitch, compete, and learn. Adam Weitsman is an entrepreneur based in upstate New York operating in an industrial, cyclical business. After going to federal prison in his early 30s, he rebuilt his career and his discipline from scratch: structured time management, deep involvement in every decision, and a work ethic that runs on three hours of sleep. Adam evaluates entrepreneurs by checking how they live before listening to what they pitch, and has been active in pre-seed investing for early-stage founders. Connect to Richard: Website: https://bakerhouse1921.com/principles LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-baker-48a5a63b9/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baker_house1921/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baker_house1921 Connect to Adam: Website: https://www.adamweitsman.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-weitsman-56a3912/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamweitsman/?hl=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/adam.weitsman/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theadamweitsman X: https://x.com/AdamWeitsman?lang=en TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@adamweitsman

Joe McConaughy was a college miler who had never raced anything longer than a mile when he Googled "run the Pacific Crest Trail" at 22 years old. 53 days and 2,600 miles later, he held the speed record. Joe De Sena sits down with Joe, a trail runner, coach, race director, and new dad, to break down what actually happens to your body and mind past day 40 of a multi-day speed record, why he spent the final 15 days running on a peg leg after his ankle lost function, and the hallucination at the top of Mount Whitney where an imaginary man named Andre offered to take his watch and finish the record for him. They cover the 50-to-90-percent grind zone where every race is won or lost, how an invisible competitor on a GPS tracker squeezed a stronger finish out of McConaughy than any training block ever could, and why he calls ultra running a silly, selfish sport. Things You Will Learn:

1. Why the middle of every race, from a 5K to a 2,600-mile record attempt, is where performance is decided.
2. Why a D1 college miler with zero ultra experience set a 2,600-mile speed record at 22 and what broke along the way.
3. The differences among short, medium, and long multi-day efforts, and how sleep strategy changes for each.

Tools & Frameworks Covered:

1. The 50–90% Grind Zone: Between halfway and 90% of any race distance, you will believe it is impossible or that it will never end. Expect it. Plan for it. Push through it.
2. Internal vs. External Activation" Ninety percent of an ultra is you against yourself. The remaining 10% can unlock performance you cannot access alone. Build external pressure into your race plan.
3. Miles Over Smiles / Smiles Over Miles: The grind is real. The suffering is real. But if the process does not fill your cup on the other side, you will not keep showing up long enough to get good.

'Heads up! I'll be a judge at The Baker House Challenge - A live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Myself, Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live here on YouTube August 29. Or Go to bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in.

Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Joe McConaughy is a new dad, trail runner, and race director 1:24 From D1 college miler to Googling "run the Pacific Crest Trail" 2:54 2,600 miles in 53 days: How the PCT speed record happened at age 22 5:08 Miles over smiles vs. smiles over miles 6:37 The 50-to-90% grind zone where every race is won or lost 10:01 Joe De Sena's group hallucination 11:57 The 508-mile bike race through Death Valley 15:44 The boogeyman at Big Bear 18:14 Why you fall to your lowest level without external pressure 19:52 Rachel winning Cocodona 250 21:26 How far past homeostasis can you actually push before everything breaks? 22:19 Third attempt on the John Muir Trail FKT and life as a new dad 24:35 Three things every person should do to get more out of life 26:35 Where to find Joe McConaughy Joe McConaughy was a D1 college miler who had never raced anything longer than a mile when he Googled "run the Pacific Crest Trail" at 22 years old. 53 days later, he held the 2,600-mile speed record. Since then, he has set the John Muir Trail (JMT) fastest known time in 70 hours, raced the Cocodona 250, and competed at the front of elite 100-mile fields across the country. Joe is a trail-running coach, a race director with Mountain Running Races, and a new dad. Connect to Joe: Website: https://thestringbean.co/about/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestring.bean/?hl=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thestringbean1/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joemcconaughy/