By Lisa T. Miller
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Storage in healthcare is often seen as a low priority. Brad Fitzpatrick of FitzRight Storage Solutions explains why it plays a critical role for hospitals to Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Brad explains why he is potentially in the business of ‘’life and death,’’ how Covid changed the storage landscape and the opposing views of storage as luxury versus necessity. He also highlights the positive impact of storage on hospital margins, and shares why success in business comes from a focus on customers and ‘’attracting’’, not chasing.
Show Topics
Two common storage pitfalls
The impact of Covid-19
Storage is ‘’potentially life and death’’
Convincing the C-Suite
Transforming relationships: A storage success story
Leadership tip: Focus on your passion
04:15 Two common storage pitfalls
Brad explained why hospitals push storage down the list of priorities.
‘’I would say probably the number one would just be the misconception that optimizing your storage is more of a luxury than a necessity. And everybody has different reasons for not moving forward, or for lack of a better word, neglecting. Whether it be, "Well, we intend on doing that one day." Or, "It's out of the budget." Those two are usually the biggest ones. But the one day is a slippery slope because you don't want to wait until you have a fire till you get the sprinklers installed. ‘One day we’ll do it.’ ‘’
05:50 The impact of Covid-19
Brad said the storage landscape changed a lot after the pandemic.
‘’I'm sure this applies to everything, and it won't surprise you when I say it, but Covid. Once Covid happened, and the pressure came on unexpectedly, I think everybody was able to assess how prepared or unprepared they were when the chips were down. And then, once that dust settled, there were some hospitals that said, "Okay, we never want to be caught off guard like that again. What areas can we fix? How can we fix it?" But then, there were other facilities that said, "We'll wait until the wheels fall off." And, actually, there is one hospital I spoke to recently, and they were told that, "Well, wait until the wheels literally fall off and then we'll redo the room."
11:25 Storage is ‘’potentially life and death’’
Brad said access to supplies and equipment can improve patient outcomes.
‘’Yeah, I don't think it would surprise you that, first and foremost, I think it impacts patients with reduced delays. We're in the business of potentially being life and death. So quick access to supplies and equipment, it minimizes any treatment delays, and that also improves patient outcomes. That said, also, I think the professional environment, a well-oiled machine doesn't work as well if the gears aren't where they should be. A well-organized hospital creates more of a professional and a reassuring environment which, for their patients and their families, can really go a long way. But hospitals aren't exclusive. A library runs a lot better when it's organized. A restaurant, a law firm, everything works better when things are where they should be and there's no surprises.’’
15:09 Convincing the C-Suite
Brad explained the advantages for leadership in recognizing the value of storage.
‘’I don't really see myself as the type of salesman who's really trying to convince anymore. I'm more of attract, don't chase. But that said, when I come in, I can read the room. I know when I'm here to give a bandaid, and then I know when I'm here to give open heart surgery. But that said, there's an increasing number of individuals who see the value in storage after years of working with me. And some of the best projects I have are when these individuals, they get relocated to a new facility with a higher role. And then they have a whole clear canvas that they're able to paint and make their own baby and really create. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the individuals who prioritize organization and storage are the ones who are finding themselves getting these new roles and being scouted for them. It speaks for itself, I think.’’
18:14 Transforming relationships: A storage success story
Brad shared an example of how storage transformed a customer relationship.
‘’One comes to mind, is a big hospital system of maybe about 13 hospitals there. Clean supply rooms were all converted over to a system, I won't mention them because I don't want to throw dirt on anybody. But they were sold on the concept on paper. It seemed great. So they went live with it. And out of the gate, they just had a lot of trouble, and they were ghosted by the customer service. And as we said, not to be overdramatic or put my theatrics, but, sometimes, it is potentially life and death. And they just didn't have the margin for error with this system, so they had to take the financial loss. And then they brought me in to convert over to my storage systems. And we had to come in and work weekends when cases weren't going on, and we had to act fast because it's not like one supply room per hospital. It's every floor has a supply room. So I didn't have much of a social life during this conversion, but I learned a lot about my products. I learned a lot about my customer. I like to think that my customer service was put on display, and my relationship with that hospital system became stronger than oak.’’
20:24 Leadership tip: Focus on your passion
Brad said success in business isn’t all about the numbers.
‘’Obviously, I know that I'm not like everybody else. And I zig when everybody else zags sometimes. But I discovered, around 2018, that storage was my passion. And not to sound too corny, but I think it's my purpose in life is working in hospitals, and getting them organized, and helping them run more efficiently. And as I said to you, my numbers are no longer my motivator. I'm not looking at the numbers and saying, "Oh, is this a good month or a bad month, financially?" I don't watch the pot boil. I just focus on taking care of myself. I take care of my customers, and I think the rest just takes care of itself. I'm more mindful and attentive of what my customers are saying, and I'm not trying to push the most profitable product. I'm trying to, if they have a square hole, I have a square peg. If they have a round hole, I have a round peg. I think that that goes a long way. And my relationships, I think, have just really been cemented, especially the last year, ever since I was able to start FitzRight, and really engrave that culture into the company. I feel that my solid relationships have gotten even more concrete with my customers. And where thoughts go, energy flows, and I know that that's a pretty cliche line, but I like to think that my customers can see that. There's a sense of trust. And, again, it's more of attracting, not chasing.’’
Connect with Lisa Miller on LinkedIn
Connect with Jim Cagliostro on LinkedIn
Connect with Brad Fitzpatrick on LinkedIn
Check out SpendMend
You’ll also hear:
Seeing things in a different light; Brad’s career journey to Fitzright Storage Solutions: ‘’I always marched to the beat of my own drum. I know I don't really have the same energy as a lot of people out there, but I always found that I saw things in a different light. … then, in my old age, I became focused in on the relationships with my customers, and pushing more of a solution than one particular product.’’
Luxury versus necessity; two opposing views of storage: ‘’I have customers who I've had a long relationship, who know the value of getting everything in order and the benefits of it. But then, also, when I'm called in, I also know that if I'm called in because Joint Commission was just in, I'm not there to totally redo the thing. I'm there to put a bandaid on it so they could get Joint Commission or inspection off their back.’’
The positive impact of storage on a hospital’s bottom line: ‘’Efficient use of the storage space can reduce need for additional storage spaces. And in tow, that means a better inventory management, avoiding unnecessary purchases, or stocking up on materials that can expire, and overstocking on those types.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare.
2. There are three ways to work with SpendMend:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
SpendMend can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
3. If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or Jim Cagliostro at [email protected]. .
Success in every industry is about effective leadership. Business coach and author Steve Lover explains how every organization can inspire world-class performance to Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Steve explains why confidence is the #1 priority for every employee, outlines the five keys to effective hiring and the three factors to fuel world-class performance and explains why customer service is dead. He also outlines why motivation doesn’t work, why organizations need to get messaging out of the marketing department and why everything happens on the other side of fear.
Show Topics
Defining ‘’world-class’’
Five keys to effective hiring
3 ways to ignite world-class performance
Fear and courage aren’t opposites
‘’Customer service is dead’’
Messaging needs to come from something real
Leadership tip: step into the fear
07:07 Defining ‘’world-class’’
Steve explained why success in every industry is all about leadership.
‘’I like to say, and this is really, I've said that I say this in two different places in my book, but it's really interesting speaking to a medical group of people. When you walk into a doctor's office, sometimes you'll walk in, and the staff is pleasant and they're nice and they're welcoming and they're caring. And you walk into another office, and you feel like they're doing you the biggest favor by just showing up to work in the morning. Very often they're sour faced, sometimes they're even nasty. Well, I believe that that comes from the doctor. A doctor that really cares how his patients are treated, that's the first office you went to. A doctor that's really worried about what the money in the business is looking or other things or efficiencies. That's the second business. So people have to be, they're going to follow you and how you lead them. And what Willink came out in his book was in the good leader over there, everybody had extreme ownership of what they were doing. And the other one, they didn't. And so really, you had mentioned something earlier, what world-class is. And to me, the definition of world-class is when you decide you want to do something, and you can fulfill it. So we say we want to get this done as a company. The fact that we can get that done based on what we said we wanted is what world-class is about. And when it comes to having people work for you and getting them on the program and then getting them involved and getting them excited, it's a whole different ballpark on how you're going to have those discussions.’’
12:12 Five keys to effective hiring
Steve outlined what every employer needs to look for in a new hire.
‘’I believe there's five things that you need in a good employee, and they're not the five things most people look for. The first one is, do they have an aptitude for the business? Now, you might have a business that needs a certain amount of skill that they've learned, but experience is never what it's at because very often you have to unteach them. And so do they have the aptitude? Do they have the ability to do this work? Is this work a good job for them? Number two, the most important of the five is, do they have the right attitude? Are they people that are going to be upbeat, optimistic, go, and with a gusto to the business? The third one, the hardest one to find is, do they have a good work ethic? Most people today do not have a good work ethic. And so finding people that have a good work ethic or would like to develop it, as a third one, that's the hardest one to find. The next one would be, are they coachable? Is this somebody that you're going to be able to have a real discussion, help them get better? And they're going to be willing to take that discussion. If they're not coachable, it's a mistake. And then finally, are they a good fit for your culture? If they're not a good fit for the culture, that's going to create waves. …. And if those five things are in place, I believe you can overcome almost anything.’’
14:57 3 ways to ignite world-class performance
Steve explained why he prefers inspiration to motivation.
‘’That's really what the whole third section of the book is about. The shortcut is I told you there's three things that are in place to create confidence, which were taking on a big challenge, doing deliberate work on it, and getting results. So the corollary for the manager or leader is to inspire the challenge, encourage the efforts, and to celebrate the results. And there's a lot to unpack there because first off, I do not like motivation. I believe motivation is totally the wrong thing. Motivate means I get you to do things that I want you to do for my reasons. Whereas if I inspire you, I get you to do things that you want to do for your own reasons. And if you think about what people really want, like the salesman example, I can come to them and say, "Listen, we really need you to do this because this is what our company needs right now." Or you can say, "You'd like to have that extra money? Wouldn't you like to go on vacation this summer and you'd like to get that new car?" Which one do you think is going to help them take on the challenge and do it better? Right, inspiration. So I don't believe in motivation. I always see inspire. Second off, when it comes to the work, anytime somebody's doing something difficult that's off the charts for them that they haven't done before, it's scary. ‘’
16:40 Fear and courage aren’t opposites
Steve said leaders need to encourage employees through challenging times.
‘’A lot of people think that fear and courage are opposites. Couldn't be further from the truth. They're brothers. If you're not fearful, you don't need courage. Courage is only around if you're fearful. If you're not fearful, I don't have to be courageous about anything. But if I am fearful, that's when I get to put on my courage pants or my courage jacket, whatever is, and go do things. And so what they need is to be encouraged. The word encourage means to give somebody else your courage. Now, I'm not doing the hard work. It's easy for me to encourage them. And I like to use example of the guy who's working out and he's doing bench pressing and he takes on a new weight that's higher than he's ever done before and some guy's spotting him and he gets number eight, and it goes tough in nine. He's struggling and the guy spotting him says, "It's all you. Come on, you got it. I'm here for you. Just go a little. Push a little more, push a little more." And he gets his 10 reps because the encouragement. And that's the same thing that a leader has to do. They have to encourage their people when things are going tough. Not necessarily push them, not necessarily hang it over them, not necessarily berate them, but just the opposite. You have to encourage them. Get them to keep the picture of what they want to do, what inspired them to go do it better. And then probably the most important is to celebrate the results. And most business owners absolutely are horrible at celebrations. They just don't know how to help a person see it. And I'll just give you an example for a kid. A kid comes home with a 99 on a math test and dad could say, "Wow, great job, kid." That's almost not even a compliment, let alone on a celebration.’’
26:22 ‘’Customer service is dead’’
Steve said the customer experience is much more important than ‘’customer service.’’
‘’But the bottom line is the customer journey is everything. It's a very funny thing, the words “customer service” is part of our lexicon for so long because it was so important, but actually customer service is dead because customer service is about remedial. When something goes wrong, what do I do to fix it? And although you still have to have that, there's something much, much more important, and that's called customer experience. And the way I like to explain it like this, you go to a restaurant and the ambience is beautiful and it looks nice, and the waiters are well-trained. They stay close enough that you can get them if you need anything, but far enough away that they're not intruding on your meal. You look at the menu, everything sounds so good, and the prices are really reasonable. The meals come out, it looks better than it sounded, and it tastes better than it looks, which is usually not the case….You are floating, cloud nine, this was such a great client experience, customer experience, can't wait to tell all your friends. Before you leave, you go to use the bathroom and the bathroom's dirty. Filthy. What just happened to your entire experience of that night out? Instead of telling your friends about the restaurant is, they're going to say, "Don't use the bathroom if you go there…Here's the real funny thing in my example, the bathroom experience has nothing to do with the dining experience. It's a necessary evil. You have to have it there for them, but this is not... They're coming for all the things you did right, but the non-central part that wasn't right is going to screw up the whole experience.’’
30:34 Messaging needs to come from something real
Steve said most mission statements are written for marketing purposes.
‘’So I think that really starting with the message is putting the cart before horse. And the reason I say that is there are three things, and every time I mention them, of course everybody rolls their eyes. That's a mission statement, the vision statement and the value statements. And the reason they roll their eyes, everybody's heard it a million times before. But the problem is all those statements have usually been taken over by the marketing department. They've been hijacked. And the marketing department writes those things for brochures, for websites, and for walls — not for what's really how the company works. So if you want to look up something really interesting, go look up Enron's value statement. That's in the book. Because it has nothing whatsoever to do with what Enron really was as a company. It's like it's laughable, integrity, you know what I mean? Honesty. It's baloney. And so any messaging that's not coming from something real is going to be a problem. So when people say, "Listen, our most valuable resource is our people," and then they blow up at them or they embarrass them at a meeting or they treat them like garbage in some other way, it's not the messaging. It's who they are as people.’’
35:56 Leadership tip: step into the fear.
Steve said the other side of fear is where everything happens.
‘’By the way, when you fail, no one's going to remember anyways five minutes later because they're thinking about their toenail, not about what you did point. And so it's about stepping up and going to do that thing you fear, because the other side of fear is where everything happens. And we've gotten so fearful of making a mistake, of being thought of as an imposter. There’s another sentence, I love this a lot: You'll stop worrying about what people think about you when you realize how little they do. And so stepping out, taking the plunge, and doing the thing that you really want to do and you're afraid to do, that's where magic happens. And that's where magic happens for leaders and followers and everybody. But when you get that going, then the second thing is, I'm a big believer in a 90-day cycle. Every 90 days you pick on something new that you're working on, and you take that challenge that you've never done before that's frightening, and you're going to have to do it. And figure out what the actions you're going to take and what the celebration's going to look like. And so you're going through those 90 days. Well, if you have a company and you have employees and every 90 days everybody's upgrading who they are as either people or employees, and they're not separated, you end up with a different company a year later. They've gone through four iterations at the end of the year, and there's no way your company looks the same.’’
Connect with Lisa Miller on LinkedIn
Connect with Jim Cagliostro on LinkedIn
Connect with Steve Lover on LinkedIn
Check out SpendMend
You’ll also hear:
Steve’s journey from rabbi to business coach and author: ‘’I got into coaching, and I found the missing thing. Sometimes you got to have a guy who is afraid to pick up the phone and he can have all the knowledge, skill, and desire he wants, but if the phone feels like it's 3,000 pounds, he's not lifting it up. And that's the same in any industry.’’
Why confidence is #1: ‘’Confidence is the number one thing that you can have to be a great employee. Nothing else even comes close. And the problem is owners don't realize and don't necessarily hire to that and they don't do anything about that.’’
Why success precedes confidence: ‘’Most people think confidence is something you talk yourself into before doing it, that you get confidence and then you get good. It's just the opposite. Success precedes confidence. When you go to do something, you don't do well and you become successful at it, that's when confidence starts to pile in.’’
Expectations versus agreements: ‘’I don't believe in expectations because I think when you have expectations, you are setting yourself up to be disappointed ….So instead, we do agreements. What agreement is, is okay, this is the problem we're trying to solve. I’m supporting you on getting the thing done that you want to do, that you're committed to. And now it's not about my expectations, well, they let me down again. It's about people owning the thing that they're going to do, and they react differently when they do that.’’
Building relationships in healthcare: ‘’Healthcare is not my thing. I'm just looking at it as an outsider, a consumer of healthcare. And when you have somebody that takes the time to explain things to you and speaks to you and shows that they care… when you're at that place of trauma... People understanding, it makes that trauma so much easier. It makes it so much easier to walk through it. And cutting corners in so many different ways, such a big mistake.’’
Why authenticity doesn’t exist: ‘’And the reason I say that is we're all in the middle of changing and growing. And so when I'm authentic, I'm authentic about yesterday, not about today, because today I'm at a little bit of chaos. It's not my idea. This is from Seth Godin.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare.
2. There are three ways to work with SpendMend:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
SpendMend can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
3. If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or Jim Cagliostro at [email protected]. .
Higher education plays a vital role in preparing and developing healthcare leaders. Dr Giuseppina Pagnotta explains why to Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Giuseppina shares her inspiration for going back to her doctorate during Covid, the importance of giving back to the world and how higher education can support career aspirations in nursing and healthcare. She also explains the role of connection, and why time is one of the most precious gifts leaders can offer.
Show Topics
Higher education can open doors
Paying it forward: sharing your knowledge
Offering inspiration and guidance through mentoring
Self-regulation and building connection
Leadership tip: Giving the gift of time
04:00 Higher education can open doors
Giuseppina encouraged people to understand how further education can support your career aspirations.
‘’And I tell people now, young people or anyone that's getting their nursing degree, whether it be from an associate or a baccalaureate program, to go on for the MSN. It's really important in today's world to get that advanced degree because you can keep it in your back pocket, and then it will allow you to have doors opened for different opportunities in your facility or in education or even as an entrepreneur. There are so many nurse entrepreneurs out now. So I attained my MSN in 2020, and our graduation was outside because of COVID, so we ended up having the graduation outside in August of 2020. And then, during that COVID spring, I realized, "What will I do with the MSN? Will it get me where I want to go?" So on that note, I evaluated, "What would I do with it? What doors will it open?" You always have to consistently evaluate, and I even tell my children, "What doors will your degree open? Where will jobs proliferate? Where can you get employment? What do you want to do with that degree, and what is the propensity of getting a job?" So then, you have to evaluate what employment opportunities does that degree align with.’’
08:44 Paying it forward: sharing your knowledge
Dr Pagnotta explained why sharing skills and knowledge can help others.
‘’I think that if you have a skill, knowledge, skill, abilities, whatever you have, and I don't want to keep them for myself. I am on this earth for this many years and if I can share my knowledge and share my path with you, then you can take it forward and go take it somewhere. I realized in the past few months that it's not about me. It's about what tools I can give to you and what tools you could run with. And I don't even have to hear from you ever again as a teacher-student, but just to know that I impart with you with the skills to learn and to grow and to get excited about learning, that's enough for me. And also, with recent times and my recent role in the Monmouth County School Nurses Association, I realized that I'm giving my leadership skills to others, and I'm teaching them school nursing leadership and nursing leadership, and they're rolling with it. It makes me so happy to see others flourish with the skills that I'm giving them and the excitement and fostering that relationship and creating an excitement in them in the role in nursing leadership.
14:06 Offering inspiration and guidance through mentoring
Giuseppina said it’s important for leaders to examine their motivation behind mentoring.
‘’I think it's dual fold. It takes a lot of work, but yet it's so rewarding. For myself, I started out as an American Nurses Association mentor. I think it was two years ago, and I was matched with a mentee across the U.S., and we would meet, I think, once every two months for 15 minutes and talk and then give each other... I would give strategies as to what her aspirations were or their aspirations, and we would continue the conversation there. It was interesting because I tend to want to inspire you. I want to inspire you in your path, and I want to look up possibilities for you. If you want to go back to college, I will look up colleges for you and look up different programs that you may like to attend in your area or that have the specific degree or certification program where you would like to go….And also, it's important for you to examine why you would like to be a mentor and what purpose does it serve for you. For me, it just serves the purpose of guiding. I love to guide colleagues into their path, colleagues, students, friends. I really get excited and happy about doing that. It gives me joy, lots of joy to do that, to help others and discover what their potential is because sometimes you don't know your true potential. And I have had several colleagues that have shown me my true potential.‘’
18:49 Self-regulation and building connection
Dr Pagnotta highlighted two key elements to support academic success.
‘’…. as a student and as a nurse already advancing in your degree, even if you are in an inpatient unit with a BSN, and you would like to be on a committee, shared governance committee, there are a lot of opportunities. In academia, I think initially, the administration and the chairs and your professors guide you, but then at a certain point, you kind of take over, and it's all you because you yourself, especially in a DNP program, you have to be self-regulated and to regulate your time and to really understand, "I have this much time today. What can I get through?" So it's important as a doctoral student for me to write down what I need to attain and also the deadlines. When is everything due and when am I going to revise? So definitely in that path. In addition, I think that it's really important for academia to set up paths to have the students connect, especially in an online platform. MSN programs are online. DNP programs are online. They have to have a coffee place online, its own place for students to connect to each other. So the nerd that I am, and friends, colleagues can say this that I've had in class with, I would email all of my classmates in the beginning of the semester, say, "Hi, my name is Gius. Nice to meet you all. If you want to connect and chat about the course, here's my number." And so I've met amazing people throughout my time as an MSN and DNP and actually some classmates that I can call friends today.’’
22:03 Leadership tip: Giving the gift of time
Giuseppina said empathy, guidance and giving time through mentoring is highly rewarding for leaders.
‘’I think the connection with family and friends and colleagues is very important. And also, to have that empathy and caring aspect about yourself, I think that is a big part. I tend to be very empathetic and very caring, even with students and colleagues to guide them in the right direction even if something is... You lost a lot of points on a paper, or something happened, and I will tell them how to get most of the points next time or how to prepare so that it doesn't happen again. I'm that type of person. And also, with mentorship, with my role, with inspiring others, you give yourself, and you give others your gift of time because your time is so important. And you give a gift to others, and you give them a gift of your time because your time is really precious. I think by me giving the gift of time to others, it's rewarding. And you had said nurses burn out…. It's difficult, and you're always giving, giving. But when you are a mentor, you're also getting that feedback from somebody else that's saying, "Thank you. Thank you for your time. I appreciate talking to you. You inspire me." And I think that's important.’’
Connect with Lisa Miller on LinkedIn
Connect with Jim Cagliostro on LinkedIn
Connect with Dr. Giuseppina Pagnotta on LinkedIn
Check out SpendMend
You’ll also hear:
Gaining a doctorate during Covid: ‘’There's nowhere to go. There's nothing to do… So instead of watching Netflix and binge-watching and discovering new shows out there, I decided to go back to my doctorate. So then, I was immersed in leadership classes, mentorship, and population health, epidemiology. And so, I never looked back.’’
Giving more back to the world: ‘’Do you like your current position? Do you feel like you can give more back to the world? And if you feel like you can give more back to the world in your particular profession, well then, you have to consider ways to give back, either it's with a certification or teaching CPR or teaching others or entrepreneur or patenting something.’’
Why face-to-face connection matters: ‘’I think we're realizing the importance of that face-to-face connection. It's great to have the digital ability, but to meet in a coffee shop, to meet someone, go for a walk, and to really get to know someone, I think that's huge.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare.
2. There are three ways to work with SpendMend:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
SpendMend can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
3. If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or Jim Cagliostro at [email protected]. .
Language can have a powerful impact on the patient experience and our perspectives on illness. Claudia Cometa, author, pharmacist, and founder at Peace Advocacy Group explains why to Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Claudia explains how her passion for advocacy arose following her father’s illness, and how moving away from images of a cancer ‘’battle’’ helps us to see our bodies as allies, rather than adversaries. She also highlights the barrier to healing created by the language of competition, how she found inspiration from the Princess of Wales, and why no patient should feel like they are a burden.
Show Topics
‘’How is this the patient experience?’’
Seeing our bodies as allies, not adversaries
Moving away from an ‘’illness identity’’
Overcoming the language of competition
Creating a more peaceful patient experience
Leadership tip: Twofold knowing
02:44 ‘’How is this the patient experience?’’
Claudia said it was her father’s cancer diagnosis that prompted a heart-centered decision towards advocacy.
‘’…my father was diagnosed with cancer in 2016, and I quickly was in crisis resolution mode. I was on the other side of the equation, jumped headfirst into that side as it just made sense. I was the only one in my family who was medically trained. And so I saw the other side of the system for the first time of any significance and was mortified like, "How is this the patient experience? How did I, number one, not know this was the patient experience and how am I just now coming to grips with what is happening on the other side of where I'm working?" And it was very discouraging. Obviously helping my father, you want the best care for your loved ones. And so to not be able to get that, to be dismissed, I ended up firing several hospital systems. It was a really, really negative experience. And that was with my oversight. That was with my deep understanding of the medical system, how to navigate it. …. And so I vowed at that point that I have to do for others what I did for him. There's just no other way around it. …. It was a feeling that I've never felt before. It was a heart-centered decision-making I had never done before…’’
06:32 Seeing our bodies as allies not adversaries
Claudia said using ‘’battle’’ language around cancer makes it sound like our bodies are the enemy.
‘’… if I go back to when I was helping my dad, I hadn't really come to this realization yet. And so I was the daughter who was posting on social media, "We're going to fight this, cancer chose the wrong girl." I just fell into the trap of what sounded like what I'm supposed to say. Like, "Yeah, I'm going to win this battle." And it wasn't until years later, well beyond when he passed away that I really started to question, some of this being part of my spiritual growth too and personal development, but how are those words really helping us? If we are really talking about whether it's cancer or another illness as if we're going into battle, and ultimately, we're going into battle with our own body. So if we are going into battle, there has to be a winner and a loser. It's no different from any war that we're used to in history class or any wars that happen right now. There's going to be somebody who's going to come out victorious and somebody who's going to be a loser. Is that the approach we have to take? Is it just that that's what we have heard, that's what's been modeled for us, that's what society has taught us? And so it feels good. It feels like, "Yeah, we're going to fight this." And so we have this internal, "Yeah, maybe this will fire me up if I feel like I'm going to go into battle and I'm going to put on my boxing gloves and I'm going to win this thing." Is there a better approach? Can we start to shift that into, instead of being at war or an adversary to our bodies or our bodies being the enemy, can we actually come back to it being an ally? So is it possible that the symptoms that we're experiencing, whether it's cancer or literally anything else, anything else that is a symptom we are experiencing, can that be seen as a message from our body? Because our body obviously isn't able to speak a language.’’
11:04 Moving away from an’’ illness identity’’
Claudia said a ‘’mind over medicine’’ approach can help to change the language around cancer.
‘’So number one is, okay, maybe a second opinion wouldn't be cancer. I don't know. But then there's the second part of this deep-seated illness identity of if I move through my life with the statement, "I have cancer," running through my mind at all times, then I am acting like what I think a cancer patient is. And so it becomes a deep-seated shift in our identity. And I saw it with my dad. I wasn't able to process it till later. But it's like, "Okay, well, now I'm that person." And this is actually mind over medicine, it's actually a thing. It's actually a book. It's a fantastic book. It's a well-researched concept. In fact, there's studies showing that women with breast cancer, if they are told they're getting chemotherapy, even if they're not, so they're told they're getting chemotherapy, they actually get placebo, they lose their hair because they're so convinced of the identity that comes with chemotherapy like, "Okay, when I get chemo, I lose my hair." So there was no pharmacologic or physiologic reason for them to lose their hair, other than the deep-seated identity that that gave them. So I really do think that our language around illness and how we process the identity around our illness is so important. It doesn't mean it's easy because you're swimming upstream. The easy societal swim on the lazy river is just do what everybody else is doing. Right? And so how do we start to shift this paradigm? And it's hard when nobody else around you is. And so it takes each of us to start making that shift.‘’
15:50 Overcoming the language of competition
Claudia said our cultural language can block out messages from our bodies.
‘’…..there is an element in our society of competition, and there are some settings where competition makes complete sense and sports is one of them. That makes sense. I don't really believe in participation trophies. When you are playing a sport, it's competition. It just is what it is, but that has permeated... The concept of competition has permeated our society so far beyond sports and so far beyond the arenas where it needs to be, and sickness isn't immune from that.
We feel like we're always fighting something, we're always competing with something. So if we're in business, we're competing with the business owner who does the same thing we do. And even in social dynamics and high school, it's like we're always competing. We want attention. We want social media. And so it's almost like in every aspect of our lives, there's this trying to win something, win attention. And it's rare that we just are okay in what's happening and able to quiet ourselves down and evaluate what's happening and learn from it. It's like we just want to keep getting louder, like, "Now we're going to be the louder one. So my body's getting loud, I can be louder." And it is not to anybody's fault. I fell into this trap with my dad. So I think that when we start to shift in... Perspective is the perfect word, is when we start to shift our perspective that what if your body really is doing everything it can possibly do to share a message with you that could change this? That it's basically saying, "Look..." The body has an innate amazing resiliency and ability to heal, but it can't do that. …… our bodies also cannot undergo the healing processes that it so divinely knows how to do if we don't give it what it needs. And so can we just get to a point where it's like, "Okay, I hear you body. What is it that is lacking here?" Maybe it's something tangible like a shift in food, movement. Maybe it's something intangible like stress. Maybe it's connecting to your intuition, maybe it's loneliness. Maybe you've been isolated. We saw this obviously a lot in COVID.’’
22:14 Creating a more peaceful patient experience
Claudia explained why preparing for healthcare appointments can help to reduce stress.
‘’So you are allowed to have health goals. You are allowed to have intentions for appointments. You're allowed to voice those intentions for appointments. You're allowed to prepare, and you should prepare for appointments. If I have an intention at this appointment that I want to get this specific thing answered, let me backtrack and see what information might be helpful for that physician to help me clarify that and help me get to where I want to go. And so I'm going to start taking notes, taking journals. Maybe I just started a medication. Let me take notes on how I'm feeling after the medication. Maybe I have trackers of my blood pressure. Let me keep all that information instead of sitting in the doctor's office and the waiting room, scrolling my phone or looking through magazines. What else do I want to get from this appointment? And let me get in the right mindset of being an activated patient. So a lot of the environment and healthcare that is already chaotic and stressful, we don't necessarily have a lot of control over. So what we can do is what is in our control, and that is the things I've just laid out and many more. And the verbiage that we use and our choice of physician, right? There are some really great matches, physician to patient……what can you do within your control, language being one thing, and these things being another, that that can help your healthcare environment and your healthcare journey be way more peaceful?’’
32:02 Leadership Tip: Knowing is twofold
Claudia explained the importance of ‘’getting quiet.’’
‘’So I think there's elements of that, definitely elements of getting around the right people and just being a lifelong student. I don't think any of us ever just reach a level of knowing enough, and that knowing is twofold. Knowing from a knowledge standpoint, how can I learn from others and glean from the wisdom of others? But then the deeper knowing which we talked about with getting quiet, how can I also... I often take people through an exercise where on paper, we split it in half, knowing on one side, knowing on the other side. One knowing is, "What have I been taught? What did I learn from others? I would've never known this if somebody didn't tell me." And on the other side is, "What do I know that nobody could tell me otherwise? I just know it from a deep place," kind of like me starting Peace Advocacy Group. Nobody could have told me, "That's a bad idea." I wouldn't even have asked, and I wouldn't have listened. So what do you know from a deep inner knowing and how can we continue to nourish both of those sides of knowing?’’
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The purpose of Peace Advocacy Group: ‘’So I'm not an entrepreneur by childhood….the challenge of course was, "How do I build a business? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to make a website." So really, the challenge was the logistics around the business. And so in 2017, I started Peace Advocacy Group…. locking arms with individuals who are in a situation of a lack of clarity, feeling dismissed by the medical team, feeling like they're not getting answers and they don't know where to go.’’
Inspiration from the Princess of Wales: ‘’And for those who follow Princess Kate and her recent announcement of cancer, it was like a little bit over a two-minute video, but if you really dissect it and listen to it in its entirety, she never once said, "I'm going to win this fight. We're going to win." There was no war language. She also never interestingly said, "I have cancer," …. She said the physicians found cancer….there wasn't this ownership, this possession of the identification of cancer.’’
Tapping into the power of guided meditations: ‘’There are great guided meditations that I've led and that others have led that really help you tune into, "Is there a message here? There's something that I need. Maybe I need more rest. Maybe I'm actually so stressed out in my job that what I need is a shift in career. Maybe I need X, Y, Z. I need to shift my diet. Maybe I've really gone off the wagon and the processed foods I've been eating are not serving me." But we can't hear that until we quiet the external noise. And we certainly aren't going to be able to hear it if we're in battle.’’
Patients should not feel like they’re a burden: ‘’You are allowed to ask questions. You should ask questions. If you just think about the fact that you are in a hospital bed, swallowing pills you don't know what they are, you're getting IVs in your arms, you don't know what it is. It doesn't feel good. That can't possibly feel good to not know those things.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare.
There are three ways to work with SpendMend:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
SpendMend can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or Jim Cagliostro at [email protected]. .
A competitive environment can prevent healthcare organizations from engaging online. Justin Poulin shares his insights into the untapped potential of social media with Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Justin explains why the key to a successful podcast is consistency, how the pandemic masked issues with supply chain workforce shortages, and how silos in healthcare hold people – and organizations - back. He also explains why competition makes people fearful of social media, provides key tips to getting started and explains why ‘’chasing the money’’ will always leave you dissatisfied.
Show Topics
02:56 Consistency is the key to successful podcasting
Justin said creating a regular schedule is the most important factor for long-term success.
‘’….podcasting, so much of it is a soft skill. I could give you little tips and pointers, but the most important thing about podcasting, and you're doing a great job with this, it's just being consistent. Making sure that you are putting content out on a regular schedule that people know what to expect. I see a lot of startup podcasts and they come out with a lot of gusto, and they do a bunch for about two or three months. And then, all of a sudden, there's a four-month gap. And those ones never really take off. I've always told everybody who wants to get involved and do it, "Hey, nobody's trying to own this space. It's a fun, creative outlet. But one of the things you have to do to be good with it is make sure that you are constantly putting out consistent content." You could do a podcast once a quarter, as long as you deliver it once a quarter on a schedule that people can expect…..It's like the TV series that comes to this great cliffhanging end of season two, and then they don't get renewed. And you're just left going, "Why? Why did you do this to me?" And so, yeah, that's the experience. And so, if you're doing podcast, just stick with it.’’
11:24 Bring your whole self to an organization
Justin said healthcare can be siloed but merging skills and interests benefits every organization.
‘’…what a convergence of my passion to do this radio show podcasting, my clinical background as a nurse, and then this entrepreneurial sales side. It's all just merged into this role and what this company is. And who would've thought all of that would've intersected, what I was doing? And I saw it as something separate. So I'd also encourage people to consider their diverse interests and experiences. And not try to partition or segment them but, actually, bring them to the table and bring their whole self to their employer, or help them create their dream job for themselves. It's really important that I think a lot of times we're taught diversify your revenue streams, you hear that, so it's all segmented. And you think about healthcare and it's very siloed. But we actually do that to ourselves. We silo our skills and interests, instead of merging them into what makes us a unique human being, which is, ultimately, how we can bring the most tremendous value to any organization that we're involved in.’’
14:28 The supply chain workforce shortage came in under the radar
Justin explained the impact of the pandemic on staffing shortages.
‘’I feel like the supply chain shortage, or workforce shortage, is sneaky. It came in under the radar. I'm sure people in supply chain might've been aware that it could be become an issue, but I don't think it was as transparent as the one that everybody talked about with nursing. We could have planned better, for sure, but we knew it was coming. I think some of the things that had happened with supply chain was really the emergence of strategic sourcing and these other roles that, at one point, when you said supply chain, in a lot of ways, you meant logistics or materials. And maybe a little bit of contracting and purchasing. But what has happened since the Affordable Care Act and value-based purchasing is we've now really expanded on the skillset that's required, where you can take your career.. But then, obviously, I think the fact that we didn't have enough people with enough experience in growing into these advanced roles in supply chain really came to a head when we hit the pandemic. Because, prior to that, it was pretty easy to say, "We're doing okay." Because we're consolidating agreements, we're looking for discounts based on volume and economies of scale, really. And I think once the supply and demand and the supply chain itself got disrupted, I think it really exposed something that was inherently there that we dodged dealing with for a really long time.’’
18:19 Healthcare supply chain needs more mentorship
Justin explained why time constraints are affecting leadership's ability to nurture talent.
‘’I definitely think there needs to be more mentorship, but I think there's plenty of willing mentors out there. The problem is, with the constraints that we're under, you're talking about taking somebody and their time that is incredibly valuable right now. So I feel like we're a little upside down on that. I think there's a lot of willing mentors that are in leadership positions. But it's about nurturing the talent and that takes a lot of time away. And, honestly, if you're already short on talent, then you're in a position where you're already lifting up, just with your own personal efforts. So how does the senior staff in a supply chain carve out that time right now to really mentor and nurture the individuals that are coming onto their team? So I think they can still do it, but I think they need a lot of augmented resources to help. And if you just even look at standardized training, like we've got the CMRP through ARM and there are some other programs that are out there, but, by and large, most of the training is institutional. And some of it needs to be tailored to the healthcare organization because everybody does things a little bit different. They use different ERPs. And so you can't just put a standard training package together. It requires, I think, the new blood coming in to be quite motivated, and also able to self-educate and be self-motivated to educate. And so, for that to really happen, you've got to inspire them. And you've got to give them resources that not only give them information, but that also give them encouragement.’’
21:26 Tailoring content to your target audience
Justin explained how social media enables people to find valuable content.
‘’… …So I think the answer to the question that you just asked me is individualized. And I think this is one of the keys of social media. What it does enable people to do is to find the content that they find valuable. And as a matter of fact, LinkedIn, in the way that they continue to do developments in their platform, is geared around connecting people with noted experts that are talking about the things that somebody wants to be learning about. They're very focused on that. And they also throttle... They don't want big media blasts. They don't want content in a commodity sense, where you just hit everybody and hit them with a ton. They don't want the users of the LinkedIn platform to get washed out. They want them to be pulled in and find value for being on their platform because it helps them grow professionally. That is different than the approach for Facebook. However, I still believe in all forms of social media having a purpose. But you do have to tailor the content to that targeted audience, and which platform they're on, and maybe the reasons that they're on that platform. So I prefer LinkedIn for a lot of reasons. But, mostly, I believe in their philosophy about connecting people to the resources that they are looking for and/or needing.’’
25:20 Competition creates a fear of social media
Justin said collaboration and transparency can help to transform healthcare.
‘’We talk a lot about transparency, collaboration. There are a lot of themes that people incorporate into their vision for how to transform healthcare, not just in the supply chain but across the board. But, yet, we say those things, but a lot of what happens is we live in a very competitive environment. And I believe that we haven't really taught our culture here in the United States how to work collaboratively and competitively with a certain amount of respect. And I think a lot of people are fearful of social media because of that reason. But if we actually learned how to do what you just said, where we could converse even with our competitors on certain topics... Because guess what? Your competitors, because you're bringing different value props to the table, it's not a one size fits all. It's different perspectives on how to solve similar problems. And those perspectives match up with different cultures in different ways. And I think we fail to recognize that it's not you're everything to everybody. You're hopefully, and every good business owner knows this, you're hopefully aligning yourself with a good customer for your company so that they have a good experience and that only builds your reputation. I think we absolutely need to do a better job, not even just in healthcare, but in general, of how can we come to the same table with our competitors in a professional manner and both benefit?’’
30:34 Getting started online
Justin said getting involved is about more than being a content consumer.
‘’… the best way to do it is to follow some hashtags, like #HealthcareSupplyChain, HealthcarePurchasing. Just look for some of those. Maybe find some companies that you've done business with, colleagues, and connect with them. But, essentially, curate the content that you want to see on LinkedIn. And when you find something that you have maybe some thoughts on, the hardest thing is creating content. It takes effort, it takes thought. But the one thing you can do to share your knowledge, you can share somebody else's post on a topic that you're either experienced or passionate about. Or that you know, "Hey, this was a great conversation that so-and-so had on this podcast." Or maybe somebody just does a general post, a couple of paragraphs on an experience they had. You could highlight that by sharing it out and saying, "Really good insights here." Something that I have always noticed that people often overlook, you don't have to tell the whole story. You don't have to be the single authority. But it definitely helps when you share somebody else's content with one or two lines that include your own insights. And especially if you think it's something that most people miss. Just get other people thinking by seeing your post. That's the best way to get involved, not just be a content consumer. ‘’
34:16 Leadership tip: ‘’Promote, promote, promote’’
Justin said a servant leadership mentality is common among successful leaders.
‘’I don't know if this is really a big aha lesson, and I might give you two, but a lot of times people are worried about elevating the people that work for them or that they're mentoring. And I just think, time and time again, it pays huge dividends to elevate those that are under you. They're never going to replace you. You're just going to become more valuable. And you never know where they're going to go in their career. So I feel like in leadership, it's just promote, promote, promote, and develop the people that are around you. You never know when you're going to need them. So, sometimes, there's just that hesitancy. I think all the great leaders are never worried about being replaced. And, sometimes, on the sales side, that can be adding staff to the team, or maybe it's you're adding a CRM, and so you know all of the functions of your role are now going to be documented. And you're like, "Oh, that could make it easier for them to bring somebody else in... You're never going to have a shortage of career opportunities if you approach it that way. You just won't. So I think that's a common amongst really excellent leaders. That servant leadership mentality I think is really important.’’
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You’ll also hear:
Justin’s career history, via nursing and a podcast on Boston Celtics: ‘’This is in 2005. Podcasting, that term was coined in the same year. I didn't even know it was a term. I called it a toll-free, live, call-in webcast, specifically for Celtics fans. I had people calling in from Australia and Italy, all over the world. And wound up credentialing my way into the locker room with credentialed access to the Boston Celtics. I was the first person from new media to get in there.’’
Tackling the workforce shortage in the healthcare supply chain: ‘’And then you're also competing with other industries, which is another difficult aspect, as people don't really find the healthcare supply chain as a destination career. They find supply chain as a destination career. They go to school for it. But not always for healthcare. And a lot of times, the wages are just more competitive in other industries. And so we do find that there's that new talent that's being trained isn't necessarily landing in healthcare roles, unfortunately. And it's certainly something that we need to tackle.’’
Why the healthcare supply chain is limited on social media: ‘’And I think there's some fundamental reasons for it too, which is to say people don't necessarily want to share their strategies for fear of losing their negotiating leverage. So I think the healthcare supply chain leader, in general, is positioned differently than maybe a clinician in how they would have a discussion on LinkedIn.’’
Don’t chase the money: ‘’But chasing the money, I think, will almost always leave you somewhat dissatisfied. So align your organizational strategies with your professional goals. As long as it's not simply money, you'll win every single time.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare.
There are three ways to work with SpendMend:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
SpendMend can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or Jim Cagliostro at [email protected]. .
Marketing effectiveness has fallen by nearly a quarter since 2020. Ian Baer, Founder & Chief Soothsayer at Sooth, offers his insights on how healthcare organizations can respond, with Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Ian shares how 90% of today’s marketing decisions are emotional, and 80% are made on impulse, and the challenges of ‘’marketing by the pound.’’ He also explains why a regulatory environment means healthcare often stays in the shallow end of the marketing pool, how data unlocks empathy between brands and audiences, and advises everyone to ‘’bring your soul to work every day.’’
Show Topics
Making emotional connections in marketing
Sooth helps brands to understand the truth
Healthcare has unique marketing challenges
‘’Marketing by the pound’’
The roadmap of healthcare marketing is the most complicated
The power of patient stories
Leadership tip: Bring your soul to work every day
08:13 Making emotional connections in marketing
Ian said 90% of the decisions people make when spending money are emotional.
‘’AI, it's very buzzwordy, but what it does for us is it allows me to take what used to require one or two years of custom research that might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, into a methodology that we can execute in a few weeks to give a brand a very clear understanding of the emotional journey of the individual that they're trying to reach. Now of course, the impact in healthcare is huge because look, 90% of all the decisions people make when it comes to spending their money are emotional. It's a big mistake marketers made for decades upon decades in thinking there's a balance between the rational and their emotional. No, there isn't. People make emotional decisions, and then they seek rationale to back up where their heart has already gone. And Harvard did some brilliant work that they published in 2016, an article I recommend to anybody and everybody get their hands on, called The New Science of Customer Emotion. .. And what they found was, of the thousands of different emotions we all experience, it's been estimated that people experience 34,000 different emotions. … But what they found is there are actually only 10 things that we feel as humans that have a positive correlation to the way we spend our money.’’
14:54 Sooth helps brands to understand the truth
Ian explained the background to his company name, and its purpose.
‘’So, I went looking through my LinkedIn profile, just going through all my experience and, "How can I describe what I do?" And I found a LinkedIn recommendation from a former client in which he referred to me as, "Soothsayer." And it reminded me that very often, when we were at a time of crisis for his brand, he would pick up the phone and call me and say, "Oh, soothsayer." And that would very often start our conversations. I thought, "Well, that's a really interesting word." I always thought a soothsayer was somebody who predicts the future. It's not. Soothsayer is somebody who tells the truth. The word sooth literally means truth. It just went obsolete in the English language about 400 years ago when Shakespeare got done with it, which is what enabled me to actually trademark it as the name of a business. It's pretty hard to get a vernacular word as the name of your company. So, when we decided to name the business Sooth, because in reality that is exactly what we're doing is helping brands understand the truth, then it just followed suit that I should be the soothsayer, that we actually have two practices at the company. We have the soothsaying practice, which is determining what the truths are, and then our client partnership practice, we call those people ‘’soothsolvers’’ because what they do is actually take the truth and put it to work in really smart marketing recommendations, and work in partnership with senior leaders on the client side.’’
17:23 Healthcare has unique marketing challenges
Ian said the regulatory environment means that healthcare is averse to taking marketing risks.
‘’Because of the regulatory environment, healthcare marketers have learned to play it extremely safe, and it's understandable. The last thing you want is a slap on the wrist, or much worse, from the FDA when you've spent countless millions of dollars, let's say, bringing a drug to market. But the result is most healthcare marketers have become conditioned to stay in the very shallow end of the swimming pool. And where that becomes unfortunate, we spoke earlier about no industry really needing empathy in their marketing more than healthcare. Well, we now have the ability through use of data, through use of technology, through one-to-one connection and interaction, through experience design, to create a really special personal experience. And yet, data privacy is a scary thing. Engaging with someone, one-on-one, whether it's through social media or other, that's a scary thing because you may wind up having to capture adverse reaction information that you then have to report to the FDA, that a lot of people would prefer not to get their hands up. So, the result is you have too many brands that don't say enough to really be helpful to people, and they're holding back way too much. And one of the biggest challenges there is the unregulated side of the healthcare space, the area that a lot of healthcare marketers might not want to acknowledge as legitimate, companies selling nutritional supplements, companies selling devices that don't really have any medical benefit, but they're claiming, "Just put this on your wrist. Just put this on your knee. Just sit up against this thing." They're not operating under the auspices of the FDA. They're making outrageous claims, and almost daring consumers and competitors to sue them. And because we live in a world now, where it's very hard for anyone to find one truth in any area of marketing or the news, consumers are somewhat in the crosshairs here. So, if healthcare marketers play it too safe and continue to stay in the shallow end, the ones who lose are the very patients and families that they're trying to help, because they'll chase false promises that really are leading healthcare marketers can fulfill in a much more meaningful way.’’
21:35 ‘’Marketing by the pound’’
Ian said marketing effectiveness is down by nearly a quarter since 2020 and 80% of people make decisions on impulse.
‘’Yeah, marketing effectiveness overall is down 23% since 2020, as a global practice, across all industries. Marketing is significantly less effective than it was 20 years ago. So, we have more data than ever, more technology than ever, more access to people than ever. And we're getting so bad at this that most brands have now shifted much more to managing the economics of marketing, how much they're spending. It's become somewhat of a marketing by the pound model because if we can't get it to produce more, then we just have to spend less on it. And everyone has gotten to settle for this reduced level of performance. How did we get here? Well, impulse is a huge issue. The extent to which people make purchase decisions, and a decision to seek out a certain medication, that falls into the category of purchase decisions. The extent to which people do this on impulse has doubled in the last 10 years, and the amount of money people spend on impulse purchases like that, "I'm going to click twice on this Facebook ad and get those gummies and throw out my metformin." That's happening faster than ever. So, when 90% of decisions are emotional, when 80% of people are making decisions on impulse, which means they're not gathering the facts, they're not gathering information, they're not calling their doctor, they're not asking other people who are suffering with the same condition. They're just saying, "Yep, that's for me." That's how we got here.
26:33 The roadmap of healthcare marketing is the most complicated
Ian explained why patients and professionals walk one path, with multiple points of view at every step.
‘’Here, every step of the way, there's an advisory relationship going on. There are certain things the consumer can do without the professional. There are certain things they cannot do without the profession, and it really is a pathway that needs to be curated. We need to understand where they come together and the information they need to reach the right decisions, and where they're going to be off on their own, exposed to different information. So, I think starting with the fact that there is no differentiated journey between the patient and the professional, but actually it's one journey, it's one path, and they're both walking it. They just enter and exit at different times. I think that's the most critical truth to understand, to start to do this thing the right way and to see every one of the decision points through multiple sets of eyes: the patient, the professional, often caregivers are involved. Sometimes you have primary and specialist professionals, institutions, payers. There are multiple points of view at every stage that need to be considered. It is the most complicated roadmap of marketing that exists.’’
30:32 The power of patient stories
Ian said there’s no substitute for hearing people’s ‘’data-rich’’ real stories.
‘’There's a lot of things a drug company can't say, that a patient can. And I think the more drug companies get comfortable giving voice to the people who are actually on the journey with that disease or that illness, it's really going to help bridge the gap between this kind of odd mix of old school branding and clinical detail. But within all of that, I have a hard time finding the humanity, and I think the more brands get comfortable, letting people tell the story of what it's really like to experience the uncertainty of disease, the hope that comes with treatments. I had a heart attack six months ago, a massive heart attack, the type that has a 96% fatality rate. It was the first cardiac event of my life. It changed my perspective on everything. I've learned a lot about my body, about my health, about what it's going to take to live a good healthy life for as long as I can. I've got a story to tell. There's millions of people like me who have stories to tell, and I would love to see more healthcare marketers be brave enough to let people tell their own stories. I think that would make a dramatic difference. Through the work we do here, we try to approximate that. We do a very good job of creating data-rich stories that represent people's beliefs and fears and tendencies. There is no substitute for hearing people's real stories. And when I see healthcare brands step up and tell real stories, I applaud them…… People retain information 30 times more when they hear it in a story.’’
34:41 Leadership tip: Bring your soul to work every day
Ian shared an encounter with journalist Jimmy Breslin.
‘’If you've never heard of Jimmy Breslin, you should find out who Jimmy Breslin was, because in New York in the 1970s and '80s, he was the most important voice in journalism. He told the stories of this city. And I got to meet him. And in a conversation in which he talked me out of a career in journalism, which is a story for another day, the advice he left me with was... the last thing he said as I walked out of the room, "Hey kid, don't be a suit. Whatever you do, don't be a suit." Now, nothing wrong with suits. I own a few. I wear them occasionally, but what it really meant to me and what I internalized and have carried as a mission is, "Don't ever give up who you are in the pursuit of business success. Don't ever give up your integrity. Don't ever give up your identity. Don't ever let a company tell you what you're really about as a human being." That has never let me down. It has defined both my good and bad career choices, but I think as much as you can stay true to yourself, that's what the world needs from you. AI is going to move in and automate a lot of the things that we don't need humans to do for themselves. So, more than ever, really bring your soul to work every day, and everyone that surrounds you will benefit from that.’’
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Ian’s mission at Sooth: ‘’There's nothing more we can do as marketers, as a noble mission, than to help people live better, longer, healthier lives, protect families against the economic crisis that healthcare represents in our country right now. And that endless money pit, and homes and savings being lost, chasing solutions….. Our mission at Sooth is really all about being able to quantify and leverage a very deep level of understanding and empathy to solve people's problems. And gosh, doesn't healthcare need that?’’
Disease is the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US: ‘’People don't talk about that enough. It is more than just selling drugs. So much more than that. When you talk to people whose lives are being impacted by these diseases, it changes everything.’’
What Soothsayer offers to healthcare organizations: ‘’What we do as a practice is give brands a highly robust understanding of all of that intricate emotional decision-making that they can literally wire their brand's marketing into. There is no category where empathy matters more than healthcare because everyone's journey with an illness is unique. …we're able to see all the way through, see where those emotions collide, see where they might cause people to sort of go into their own camps and how the brands can bring them back together.’’
Why brand equity is occupying the wrong place in the timeline: ‘’Most brands still are too focused on the moment of truth, whether that truth is a click, whether that truth is a purchase, whether it's making an appointment, whether it's a visit, whether it's an order, whether it's a script. And what they're not focusing on is understanding who that person is before those transactional moments take place, and solving their problems, or at least giving them a pathway to a solution before they ever reach the moment of impulse. Because once you let them get to that moment of impulse, it is Dodge City.’’
Data unlocks empathy: ‘’…my whole business is about using data to unlock empathy between brands and audiences. So, there's a huge role for data to play, but data is not just about targeting and segmentation and managing the numbers side of things. We are all, really, walking data vaults. Our data includes experiences, our data includes our emotions, our impulses. These are data points too, and they're every bit as valid and important, and drive 90% of the impact of marketing effectiveness.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare and receive a special report on 15 Effective Cost Savings Strategies.
There are three ways to work with VIE Healthcare:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
VIE can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or directly at 732-319-5700.
US health systems are slowly adopting a patient-focused approach. Shanil Ebrahim, Partner in National Life Sciences & Healthcare Consulting Leader at Deloitte Canada, explains its benefits to Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Shanil explains why healthcare needs to move away from the ‘’one-size fits all’’ approach to patient care, why patients should be treated as partners, rather than recipients, and the impact of a healthcare model designed around systems. He also outlines why patient-centered care is an investment in quality and efficiency and highlights the benefits of adaptability in leadership.
Show Topics
Patient care goes beyond managing health conditions
Healthcare is designed around the needs of the system
‘’Patient feedback should shape everything we do’’
Funding the cost of change
A champion for patient care
Improving the patient experience leads to better outcomes
Leadership tip: embracing adaptability
05:12 Patient care goes beyond managing health conditions
Shanil said patient-centered care is designed around patient preferences.
‘’Ultimately, when you think about that term, at its core, patient-centered care is about ensuring that healthcare systems and all of their processes are fundamentally designed around the patient's needs or their experiences or their preferences I should say. And this approach goes beyond just treating diseases or managing health conditions. It's about considering patients as active participants in their own healthcare, which means that any sort of treatments or healthcare plans we develop, it's not about just focusing on clinical guidelines alone, but how do we deeply integrate that with the individual's lifestyle or their cultural background or their personal preferences into how those treatments are actually planned and executed?’’
10:45 Healthcare is designed around the needs of the system
Shanil explained how the historical context of healthcare models affects patient care today.
‘’…your question really gets at the heart of many challenges that we face in healthcare today, irrespective of where you are, whether you're in North America or globally, and you have to consider that historically, our healthcare models were designed more around the needs of the healthcare system than the needs of the patient. All you have to do is look at things like financial models of all of these health systems, which is focused on volume and paying for services that a doctor provides over value of the services or take healthcare organizations like hospitals where they prioritize operational efficiency, where you have a ton of metrics around that over personalized care. And even though we may make patient-centered care sound easy and obvious, transitioning to that type of care is a big paradigm shift when you consider that historical context. And it requires both a shift in mindset and operations.’’
11:48 ‘’Patient feedback should shape everything we do’’
Shanil explained why the starting point is to consider the patient perspective.
‘’And to me, first and foremost, it starts with leadership commitments, whether your ministers or C-suite execs at hospitals to re-envision what healthcare should look like from a patient's perspective. And this means aligning the organizational culture with patient-centric values and training your workforce to adopt this approach in every interaction in every decision. And when you think about what are practical first steps that you can actually take, it often involves gathering extensive patient feedback to understand their experiences and needs better. Something that we talked about obviously just at a length. And this feedback that we get from these patients should shape everything we do from policy to bedside manner. And technology plays a pretty crucial role here because it can be leveraged to improve communication with patients. It can be leveraged to offer more personalized health management tools or provide healthcare professionals with real-time data that is much more patient-specific, so that they can continue iterating in terms of what they need to do on a daily basis.’’
16:19 Funding the cost of change
Shanil said the initial cost of transitioning to patient-centered care should be viewed as an investment in quality and efficiency.
‘’Now in the US, where the healthcare system is more privatized, funding might come through insurance reimbursements or through investments by private health systems where they're looking to improve patient satisfaction and reduce long-term cost. You can't think about this as a short-term game, and you have to be able to measure what the value of the investment is now on something that hits long-term as well. And this is where whether your insurer or providers like hospitals, they could also tap into incentives offered by government programs or payers for meeting certain patient care standards and patient outcomes as well. So that's kind of giving you a contrast between those public health systems and the private healthcare systems, right? But regardless of the country, the initial cost of transitioning to patient-centered care needs to be viewed as investments. And these investments, by the way, Jim, are not just financial. They're investments in quality and efficiency, that over time lead to cost savings, right? Because you are reducing interventions over time, you're reducing hospital readmissions over time, and you're also improving the management of chronic conditions. So right now, if we're aligning with those value-based care models, which by the way is gaining a lot of traction worldwide, it provides that financial incentive to improve those patient outcomes and that naturally supports a care approach or a patient-centered care model.’’
19:15 A champion of patient care
Shanil said the role of patient experience officer is increasing but change starts with the CEO.
‘’The question is how do we enable patient experience to be at the heart of the organization, because that's what ultimately it is, right? And usually it is a step-wise approach. So the first thing that we end up trying to see is who's going to be the champion? And largely, we want it to be the CEO of the organization. If it really comes from the top and they have their strategic priorities and strategic comparatives centered around the patient, it sends a message to not only the C-suite, but across the organization as well. So that's where we usually like to see it's starting right from the top. Now as we start to see this penetrate or proliferate throughout the organization, it's an interim solution, which is where you would want someone who owns this as a mandate going forward once the CEO has actually set its goals and the role of the patient experience officer is increasing quite a bit, and especially in larger, more modern type of healthcare settings because it bridges a gap between clinical care and patient satisfaction and someone has a mandate to continuously challenge that. Like isn't it great if we end up seeing the type of conversations that is happening between the patient experience officer and the CFO, which may end up having different imperatives where the CFO is not only thinking about the long-term cost, but of course thinking about the short-term cost as well and focused on operational efficiency indicators, whereas the patient experience officer is thinking about the long-term value that we're providing as a healthcare system.’’
22:55 Improving the patient experience leads to better outcomes
Shanil said capturing and measuring the outcome data is the key focus.
‘’In a value-based healthcare model, the focus is squarely on patient experience and outcomes. Because the fundamental principle behind this is that these factors directly correlate with the effectiveness of care. And in terms of reducing costs or the burden on the healthcare system, and a better patient experience often leads to higher levels of patient engagement, which is critical for the success or uptake or adoption of treatment plans and ultimately improves overall health outcomes, which is the end goal of whatever we're trying to do, right? So even in simpler words, when a person or a patient feels supported and valued, they're just much more likely to actually follow medical advice and maintain their health regimens. This kind of connecting on the diabetes example that I actually provided earlier as well. And when it comes to the measurement, you can measure these patient outcomes over time to see how effective it is, whether it's measuring recovery rates or complications or taking holistic approach and measuring quality of life, which there's a significant amount of instruments or questionnaires around it, and they all serve as indicators on how we're effectively doing this and how effectively this value-based system is actually operating. But to be able to do that, and this is also turning out to be a fundamental problem or enabler that we need to fix, is we need to be able to capture all of this, this outcome data and these experiences that patients are having, and then we need to measure that data and have some analytics to offer us insights into how we're doing.’’
26:32 Leadership tip: Embracing adaptability
Shanil explained why adaptability has helped him to stay ahead.
‘’…this is not just from a personal standpoint, but I also think about it from my team and the entire ecosystem because we're moving from traditional models of healthcare and healthcare delivery to highly tech enabled healthcare, and that shift is going to continuously increase as well, right? And ultimately, when you think about that tech enabled world, it's not about new software or fancy tools, it's just about a whole different way of thinking about patient care, thinking about patient data differently, thinking about how we improve effectiveness differently. And adaptability, ultimately thinking about all of these types of changes and in these type of contexts, for me as a leader, it means leading my team through this transition, ensuring that they are not only trained in new technologies, but they're also mentally prepared to embrace these type of changes, which is different because now it involves shifting our mindset from this is how we've done it previously, to what's the best way to do this now. And one thing I love about adaptability is that there's a lot of these sub-characteristics that are inherent to it to enable you to think differently. Because adaptability means you have to keep an open mind. Adaptability means that you have to be willing to learn continuously. It means you have to be resilient; you have to show that you're not afraid to pivot when the situation calls for it. And this approach, or this principle or this guiding principle, we'll call it, has not only helped me personally stay ahead, but it has also ensured that I can help lead my teams to continue to deliver high quality solutions to our clients no matter what changes come our way. So that would be the number one thing that I would share with your audience.
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Healthcare is about people; Shanil’s passion for improving patient care: ‘’….the reason I do this personally is because one, I'm really passionate about it and it really stems from personal and professional commitment to making healthcare better and more accessible, especially for underserved and vulnerable populations, which has been a common thread throughout my career in terms of serving those populations.’’
Moving away from the one-size-fits-all approach to patient care: ‘’… we need to involve patients more directly, ensuring that they have easy access to their health information. We have to support them through various channels that respect their time, that respect their preferences, respect their individual life circumstances. And it's all about moving from your classic one-size-fits-all approach to something that is more tailored, more holistic, and responds to the needs of the patient.’’
Creating a healthcare experience where patients are partners not just recipients: ‘’…if we truly want to do this right, we have to measure the true value from it because all the things that I'm saying are also hypotheses that are based off of research…..And the ROI should be that if we provide tailored approaches to patients, they'll be better managed. They will get to positive outcomes faster, which means incurring less costs in the long run and everyone should benefit.’’
Why patient-centered care means a focus on the patient journey: ‘’And any sort of position, whether you call it a patient experience officer or someone wearing the hat of a C-suite executive that champions a patient experience, they would be focused on the patient journey through the healthcare system and ensuring that we're empowering the patient's experience. And one of the main reasons for creating such a role is let's have someone who systematically addresses and improves all aspects of patient experience.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare and receive a special report on 15 Effective Cost Savings Strategies.
There are three ways to work with VIE Healthcare:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
VIE can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or directly at 732-319-5700.
Strategic planning is vital to successful healthcare management. President & Co-Founder of The American Healthcare Journal, Cole Lyons, explains his goal of fostering a community of education to Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Cole explains why transfer of knowledge is a key goal of the Journal, why healthcare strategy can be described as moving from checkers to chess and emphasizes the importance of thinking before you speak. He also explains the importance of competition in healthcare and identifies humility as an essential leadership trait.
Show Topics
Redefining healthcare strategy
A strategic alternative for nonprofits
Breaking down silos in healthcare
Join Cole’s community on LinkedIn
Applying economic theories to healthcare strategy
Leadership tip: why humility matters
05:36 Redefining healthcare strategy
Cole explained why thinking about the impact of your actions matters.
‘’For me, it's kind of thinking before I speak. I think that's the best way that I've come up with how to explain it. In operations, day-to-day, things are quite hectic, especially at high volume clinics. And you have to make very quickly, fairly educated decisions based on standard operating procedures. But sometimes that doesn't always lead us down the best path. So part of that is creating standard operating procedures that allow you time to think about how it impacts things long-term. So, thinking before you speak for me means instead of just saying what I need to say in the moment, I think about what I say, how it will impact the person hearing it, how it'll impact my image. And if you apply that kind of thinking before acting approach to your actions in the operations space, it means taking a step back and looking at the competitive landscape in your industry, looking at the competitive landscape in your institution, different departments competing for funding, different departments competing for exposure, and looking at how even small actions in the operations world will impact that.’’
08:12 A strategic alternative for nonprofits
Cole said the Journal aims to foster improvement and education in strategic thinking for nonprofit institutions.
‘’… the problem right now is VC-backed healthcare firms, those that are backed by venture capital. They have a high concentration of MBAs who have really good strategic insights. So don't get me wrong, and we can always go into this anytime, but there's a problem with a lot of the strategy theories out there in general that are taught to MBA graduates because it's based on economic theories that don't always play out in the real world. But still when they make decisions, it is much more strategic than in nonprofit healthcare. And so, one of the issues is that I'm not a fan of government-run healthcare, which is a little contrarian. I'm just not particularly a fan of it. I think that free market healthcare is good, nonprofit institutions are my favorite. I love nonprofit institutions. I think that that's the best form of delivering healthcare. But they don't act very strategically, especially compared to VC-backed or for-profit healthcare, which employ all these MBAs, they recruit MBAs from the top schools, they can pay them. …I'm not saying that they're any less educated, they're just educated differently. They have MHAs, they have MPAs, a lot of them have MDs, and they are educated in a very different way. So the journal's purpose is how can we foster this community of improvement and education in strategic thinking for these people who are educated in a much more practical way? An MHA isn’t sitting in their office thinking and going into philosophy a lot of times. A lot of times they're figuring out, how can we solve this problem? How can we deal with this emergency situation?’’
13:36 Breaking down silos in healthcare
Cole said administrative fellowships can help to develop a well-rounded approach.
‘’One of the ways that this is going to work out really well, and a lot of programs are doing this, is through administrative fellowships. I actually have a lot of different things that we're involved with with that, trying to get fellowship certified, trying to get fellowships publicized a lot because administrative fellowships have to rotate through every department in the organization usually. They know all the leaders. And so when they go and work in operations, they are very well-rounded. They have a much better strategic vision of the organization. They know clinicians, they know the house staff, they know the janitors, they know everybody. A lot of times they know the people who are on construction teams building the building. And so that gives them a huge, well-rounded approach that's also going to massively improve strategy. So yeah, the majority of organizations are still struggling. They're siloed or they don't even have really a strategy team, but there is a good trend for improvement I think on the way.’’
16:32 Join Cole’s community on LinkedIn
Cole said anyone who wishes to get involved with the Journal can connect on LinkedIn and YouTube.
‘’LinkedIn is one of the best knowledge communities. There's a bunch of knowledgeable people. All my mentors have come from LinkedIn. The past two jobs I've gotten, including the journal, so I guess my past three jobs, have all come from people I've met on LinkedIn. So I would say go to LinkedIn, the American Journal of Healthcare Strategy is on there. I am on there. Happy to network and connect with anyone. Also, just happy to be kind of a funnel connecting you to other people. If you want to meet someone in the Philadelphia region, I know most of the senior leaders here at least casually, so I can always connect you to somebody if there's somebody you want to meet. So yeah, LinkedIn is definitely the best way until we get that website and mobile app up and running…. I know sales teams have told me that they've benefited a lot, our YouTube channel and our LinkedIn, a lot of time our LinkedIn will link to the YouTube channel.’’
19:08 Applying economic theories to healthcare strategy
Cole said education is important to help hospitals adapt to strategy.
‘’I think the first reason that it's important is because if you're an MHA grad and you're interfacing with an MBA graduate or somebody who's a consultant, I guess classically trained in business, you need to understand the economic theories that they're going to be using and you also need to understand why they seem flawed. So when you go through a strategic plan and you utilize one of these theories, it could be like Blue Ocean or you utilize Porter's Five Forces, I like them, I think they're excellent, but they are flawed in some situations. And coming from operations, you'll identify, "Oh, there's something wrong with this," but you might not exactly know how to explain it. And it'll give you the language, it'll give you the techniques. You'll be able to construct these Five Forces plans, the Blue Ocean Plan. There's another one I can't remember off the top of my mind. But then it'll take you and say, "Okay, here's the problems with some of them. Here's how you can identify what the issues are, and here's how you can fix them as well." So, when a consultant comes in and gives you this awesome plan, it'll not have you throw plan in the trash. It'll have you say, "Oh, here's how I can adapt it to fit my organization."
21:55 Leadership tip: why humility matters
Cole said humility enables leaders to make connections.
‘’Humility is really, really important. I've been so privileged to sit with most of the CEOs of hospitals in the Philadelphia region. I think that the humility of some of them is really astounding and it leaves a lasting impact on me. I also think that those are usually the ones who are most respected, being down to earth and being humble, speaking with all the members of staff because you actually need to and want to and not just because it makes you look good…Also, the other lesson Six Sigma, the Gemba walk, the... Before you can become a manager in Japan, you have to go through all the departments…When these people rotate through these departments, I was talking to one the other day that she was in the parking lot looking at the road signs in the parking garage and working with the builders in the state to make sure that these parking lot road signs were constructed correctly. A few years later, she's going to be a hospital administrator, but that experience in the parking lot looking at the road signs, invaluable, because now she has a connection to the whole organization. And you can only make that connection if you're humble.’’
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You’ll also hear:
Transfer of knowledge, the goal of the American Journal of Healthcare Strategy: ‘’It’s really essential that we think of things differently. …. what we're trying to figure out is how to transfer knowledge around in a better way, whether that is through consulting one-on-one, whether that's through one-on-one coaching, or whether that's through podcast or video. How can we get a community that is knowledgeable and is empowered by that knowledge? That's what our real goal is at the end of the day.‘’
From checkers to chess; another way of looking at healthcare strategy: ‘’So with checkers, you're kind of looking at the very next move. With chess, the best players are looking many moves ahead. And how one move in one side of the board will affect the move in the other side of the board. It's a pattern of thinking that's very hard to develop even. In the first way I mentioned with thinking before I speak, it's very challenging.’’
The role of competition in American healthcare: ‘’Even though we have problems with our population care, our actual procedures that we perform, there are lots of medical tourists coming from other countries to receive care in the United States because our healthcare is really excellent in terms of a lot of the quality. We want want these nonprofit firms to be able to compete really well against VC-backed. And so that's what motivates us.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare and receive a special report on 15 Effective Cost Savings Strategies.
There are three ways to work with VIE Healthcare:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
VIE can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or directly at 732-319-5700.
Tech startups are predicted to disrupt US healthcare in 2024. Scott Nelson, co-founder, and CEO of venture backed FastWave Medical, offers his strategies for success in innovation with Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Scott reveals the two signs that an idea has potential, why market trumps everything in innovation, and why leaders should focus on eliminating pain points for their end users. He also advises innovators to connect with potential strategic acquirers at an early stage and explains why leaders of startups shouldn’t put all their eggs in the venture capital basket.
Show Topics
Two signs of a good idea
Market ultimately trumps everything in innovation
Engage with potential strategic acquirers at an early stage
Finding investment in your community
Flipping the script: eliminating pain points
Effective ways to raise capital
Leaders of startups don’t have to be the CEO
05:49 Two signs of a good idea
Scott said there are two things for leaders to consider in innovation.
‘’I guess to answer your question in a little bit more long-winded way, I would say if you've got an idea that you can't seem to shake a little bit… It's sticky and you find yourself maybe waking up at night thinking about it or you thought about it and then two weeks ago you're still thinking about it, maybe a month goes on, you're still thinking about it, that's usually a good signal. Maybe there's something there, but the most important point from my perspective is before you go too far, before you get too latched onto this idea, you really need to think about two things primarily. One, does it solve a real glaring problem? Is it a painkiller? I remember interviewing Dan Hawkins way back in the day. He was actually the founder of Shockwave, the company I mentioned previously, was very early at Intuitive Surgical, was the founder of Avail Medsystems, et cetera, serial entrepreneur. And he phrased, this was back in, I think 2016 or 17, but he mentioned finding a painkiller, not aspirin, not Tylenol, but a real painkiller, something that really causes a lot of pain, whether that's from a cost perspective, whether that's from a workflow perspective, but something that's like, there's a lot of friction there. That's what your idea hopefully solves for, a real painkiller. And then secondarily, if you think you're onto something that solves that real pain point, secondarily, you need to think about this as early in the process as possible. Who's going to pay for it?’’
09:03 Market ultimately trumps everything in innovation
Scott explained why market is the #1 factor for potential entrepreneurs.
‘’I sort of fundamentally believe that market ultimately trumps everything else, right? Now, don't get me wrong, you could have a great product and a great team, but if it doesn't serve a huge market, you're going to have to think about other ways to fund that, right? Maybe it's a product that you can invest your own money in. Maybe it's a product that you can get to market quite quickly and use revenue and profits to support the company's growth, etc. But the reality is you need a big market to serve in order to give you optionality to capitalize and fund your idea or fund the company moving forward. So I do kind of think market trumps everything, because again, you could be working on a great product, have an awesome team, but if the market just doesn't support it, it's likely not going to have a lot of substance there. On the flip side, you could have an awesome market and maybe a decent product and a decent team, but it's probably going to do fairly well because the market supports that need. So, long story short, there's a couple of different ways to think about it. They're all important. ‘’
12:38 Engage with potential strategic acquirers at an early stage
‘’Obviously you need to be careful and cognizant about not disclosing too much, but the imperative is really to start engaging early on with those, what you perceive as potential strategic acquirers, really under the guise of just an introduction. You're not trying to sell them anything. It's a dating process. You're trying to get to know them, inform them of what you're building, what you're working on, so at least have a high-level idea. And as you continue to make progress against your idea and against your milestones, keep them informed. Not just them, but hopefully potential investors, people that... stakeholders within your community. You want to be communicating the progress that you're making against the idea or the product that you're building. So I can come full circle on your question. I just think it's really sometimes underappreciated, and it's actually a tip that I picked up on from Duke Rohlen, he's the founder of Ajax Health, serial entrepreneurs, had multiple exits under his belt, but he mentioned this, in an interview maybe close to 10 years ago now that I had with him. That was one of the things that he really focused on with some of his early wins is really an evaluation of all of the players in a certain market and what are they missing? What are the gaps in their existing portfolios? And he put together a matrix, and that helped think about how his product could potentially fit into the portfolios and where it fits with the broader space, if you will. And so that I think is sometimes maybe a little bit underappreciated from most founders and CEOs that are highly focused on their idea.’’
14:38 Finding investment in your community.
Scott said your community could be the source of potential investment.
‘’Generally speaking… you want to engage with your community as early as possible. In your community could be your end users of your product. Your community could be the payers. Your community could be investors. Your community could be those likely potential strategic acquirers. You need to be engaging with them early, having a lot of conversations early under the guise that you want to let them know who you are, what you're building, what you're working on, and you want to keep them informed on your progress, right? Because if you can demonstrate over the course of six, 12, 18, 24 months that you delivered on what you said you were going to do, that's probably the most impressive thing that you do. You could present a fancy pitch deck, you could have an awesome advisory board. Your product could actually be quite cool, but the thing that's going to stand out is your ability to execute against the things that you say you're going to execute against. That's the most impressive thing. That's always going to stand out to strategic acquirers, investors, even your end user stakeholders. So I really, really think it's important.’’
18:41 Flipping the script: eliminating pain points
Scott said the key question to ask yourself is how your idea makes life easier for your end users.
‘’I think oftentimes we might want to flip the script a little bit and not necessarily think about our idea, our technology, offering so many more benefits and so many more improvements. Actually, what does it eliminate from the workflow? What pain points, what friction does it take away from my end users to make their life more simple, more easy to use? And hopefully through that process, we're delivering on those cost savings, right? Because so many times, especially in MedTech, and rightfully so in some scenarios, we think about how to get a pricing bump, or a pricing increase. In reality, your business model might be just delivering a slightly better product, but at a very attractive price. A Costco model. So that's not a bad play. And if your wheelhouse is really more around maybe cogs optimization or supply chain management, and that's what you really know well, there could be some great ideas in there where you can just simply deliver a good enough product, maybe slightly better, but just at a very attractive price. And that could be a phenomenal idea. And so I think those are a couple of things that I would think about under the guise of how do I differentiate myself versus competition? Don't think about your product doing so many great things. Think about how it can remove friction in a process and make your end users' lives more simple, more easy, less stressful. And then maybe just as important, how can it remove costs from the equation?’’
22:30 Effective ways to raise capital
Scott said innovators need to be thinking in terms of major milestones about fundraising.
‘’ I'll probably say fairly high level, but I really would encourage everyone to think about how they're raising capital. Think about it in cycles, if you will. You want to raise enough capital, ideally, not too much per se, but not too little either. But raise enough capital where you can achieve the next major milestone in say, 12 months. And you need to make that very, very clear to all your potential investors, this is what we're raising our money for. This is the next major milestone that we're targeting. So being very, very clear about that and kind of thinking about your fundraising and tranches, if you will, like that. And again, it is really very important. Yes, you want to be in a position where you don't run out of cash for sure, but you also don't want to take so much money upfront that you get so diluted that will impact future fundraisers. So yes, think about these near-term milestones. Those are crucial, but also think about how those may impact the next fundraise as well. So I definitely want to, I'd like to start out there because I think it's a point worth emphasizing for anyone that's working on early stage technology.’’
26:03 Leaders of startups don’t have to be the CEO
‘’I think as leaders of startups, you don't necessarily have to be the CEO. If you're in some sort of leadership capacity within an early stage company, I would just keep in mind that when you're trying to direct your team and push the ball forward, but you're pushing in essence a boulder uphill with a lot of friction, momentum is crucial. So as a leader, you need to keep that in mind, is do everything within your power to keep the momentum going forward. There's always going to be trade-offs as your company evolves, but ensuring and optimizing for momentum, that's so, so crucial. So that's probably one of the things that probably stands out most as part of this broader startup idea.’’
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Connect with Jim Cagliostro on LinkedIn
Connect with Scott Nelson on LinkedIn
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You’ll also hear:
Three things for every innovator to consider: ‘’As your idea begins to evolve and begins to take shape, you need to be thinking about…what product am I building? What market does it serve? And who's the best team to effectively build this?’’
One key piece of advice for startups: ‘’As a startup, if you're working on an idea, the most likely scenario for a potential liquidity event is an exit to a strategic acquirer.’’
The blurred line between payers and providers: ‘’Once my technology is approved or cleared by the regulatory body and I'm ready to sell, then I need to think about who's going to pay for it. Well, the reality is … the lines between payers and providers, is really, quite blurred… They ought to know who you are and what you've been building for hopefully months, if not maybe a couple of years.’’
Don't put your eggs all in the traditional VC basket: ‘’If you're so highly dependent upon traditional VCs, likely they're going to get squeezed…. So the onus on founders, CEOs, in terms of fundraising is to keep a lot of options on the table, go far and wide. It's a lot of work.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare and receive a special report on 15 Effective Cost Savings Strategies.
There are three ways to work with VIE Healthcare:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
VIE can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or directly at 732-319-5700.
Purchased services is often the most overlooked expense in healthcare yet offers opportunities for cost savings. Brian Bartel shares his best practices for effective contract management, with Jim Cagliostro.
Episode Introduction
Brian explains the unique challenges of purchased services, why a centralized contract repository is the first step to successful purchased services management, and why hospitals should never allow contracts to auto-renew. He also explains why ‘’red flags’’ aren’t always necessarily malicious and why it’s vital to question the line-item details of your purchased services invoices.
Show Topics
Purchased services present a unique challenge in healthcare
#1 tip: Create a centralized contract repository
Review your contracts on a minimum annual basis
Don’t assume all red flags are malicious
The hidden cost savings in your line-item details
Be inquisitive, be patient, be strategic – and build relationships
06:35 Purchased services present a unique challenge in healthcare
Brian explained the difference between supplies and purchased services.
‘’…When you're talking about supplies, it's pretty easy. You've got a specific item number, you've got your power set, your requisitions, everything is very orderly. So things are coming in, you can track it, you've got the data behind it, there's a contract with that line item pricing. And then when you get confirmations back, usually people are using some form of EDI, which makes it relatively easy, and you can track that. Item A is item A, item B is item B. Purchased services is different because it typically is not on a PO. Again, I've worked places where it is, but that comes with its own challenges. It's very department specific, so you've got usually a department manager or leader that's kind of running that point with it. We don't have as much interaction on the supply chain side of this either. Communication is usually kind of sparse between supply chain and a purchased service provider as compared to a typical supply vendor. And again, the data is just, it's more difficult. When you start looking at how things are being invoiced because there's no PO line, it gets very challenging to try to figure out, "Okay, what's actually happening with this spend?" Typically, an invoice will come in, the department manager signs off on it, it gets paid, and that's it. So a lot of opportunity there.’’
08:30 #1 tip: Create a centralized contract repository
Brian said a centralized contract repository was the essential first step to successful purchased services management.
‘’I think that at square one, I think the biggest thing you can do is if your organization or your hospital, your ASC, your clinic, whatever it is, if you don't have a centralized contract repository, that's step one. Again, stepping into certain roles in my past, you've got contracts that might be down in admin. You've got department managers that have signature execution authority and they've got them in their files, and then you realize three years later that there's been this contract that nobody's really paying attention to because it's just a paper copy. Really I think that that's the biggest thing for me is getting your hands around it. Number one, you've just got to have that centralized repository. Again, that doesn't mean that you need to use software. Software obviously makes things easier. I'm a big proponent of that. But again, even just saying, "All right, nobody can sign contracts except for," whether it be your CEO, your CFO. "Send all these down and we're going to put them in a file cabinet." At least then you can go and try to find where those contractual documents are.’’
10:07 Review your contracts on a minimum annual basis
Brian said it’s important not to let contracts auto-renew.
‘’It’s always good to have that check-in annually, even if it’s just pulling the contract, making sure when does this contract terminate? That’s the other thing about automated systems through contract software is that you can set those flags. “Hey, something’s coming up 180 days later.” Again, with things that are just auto-renewing, that’s an issue too. If you miss that window to terminate something that you do want to go out to bid for, or maybe it’s a contract that you don’t need anymore. And I’ve seen, you’ve probably seen it too, 180 day out clause, some of these things. So if you miss that, that’s going to be a problem. As far as reviewing, it depends too on the type of service. Some of them are much more important, and so having a quarterly business review or a semiannual business review is important, and that gives the vendor time to come and showcase what it is that they’re doing too, because at the end of the day, sometimes these people are coming in, they’re doing great work, but nobody really knows except for that department or specific area that they’re there too. So giving that face time opportunity for the vendor, especially on those critical contracts, is important as well.’’
12:21 Don’t assume all red flags are malicious
Brian said reaching out to the vendor is important if you notice an invoice discrepancy.
‘’I think that that's where you've got to have a little finesse, again, realizing that some of these contracts, there's a lot of relationships built in. Again, if you've got somebody that's on site providing this, odds are they built those relationships. So I always take the approach when I notice that something's not going well on my side, if I notice an invoice discrepancy or something, it's an automatic red flag, but don't assume that it's malicious, right? So the first thing that I recommend is definitely reaching out to the vendor, the supplier, the individual, whoever it is that's your point of contact and just have that conversation. Say, "Hey, we noticed that there's a deficiency here," or, "We have a question about this invoice," and give them a chance. Because again, remember, on their side, I think it's probably maybe not quite as complex as it is on ours, but I know that just the conversations that I've had with suppliers in the past is that there are mistakes made when they're sending out invoices on a monthly basis or whatever it is. Again, give them that opportunity to rectify, at least bring it to their attention, and don't assume a malicious intent, even though that's probably from a supply chain standpoint, something that we might tend to do a little bit too much, right?’’
14:22 The hidden cost savings in your line-item details
Brian said a detailed review of purchased services invoices can uncover significant cost savings opportunities.
‘’At the end of the day, we're paying for whatever it is that we've signed up contractually for. And so having that actual invoice in front of you will tell you a lot of different things. Number one, you get the contract. Number two, you get the invoice. And then you start going through, does this make sense? Are things lining up? And I found some just very easy wins, things that they've been charging for, like an EVS vendor that was charging for restroom service, thousands of dollars a year, nobody knew what it was, and all they were doing is just bringing in little scent pads and not even going into the restrooms. But that was a line item that nobody had really questioned before. And so by seeing that actual invoice, again, now you're not just seeing it as X amount, now you can actually go in and see what it is that they're invoicing for. Again, correlating back to the supply chain side, we know that. We know each individual widget, case, box, each, but until you see that invoice a lot of times, if you're looking at it from a GL perspective or an expense, you don't see that line item necessarily all the way down to that detail. So it just tells you a lot. And again, maybe I'm just a nerd, but I like doing that. I like pulling those occasionally and just making sure, do the sniff test. Does this seem like everything that it should be? And then ask those questions. And again, you learn through that too. Some of the services that we have, it's like, "Oh, I didn't know that that was included." So again, that goes back to the communication with the vendor or supplier, give them opportunity to explain what it is that they're invoicing as well.’’
19:05 Be inquisitive, be patient, be strategic - and build relationships
Brian said building relationships is vital in leadership.
‘’I think the biggest thing is just like I mentioned before, be inquisitive, have patience, and be strategic. A lot of the things that we would like to get done, whether it's supply chain or in our personal lives, it takes a while. So build those relationships, know what you want to do and know that it will take time. Rome wasn't built in a day. And so when you have those opportunities come up, if you're strategic about it, that door opens a little bit, you've got all your ducks in a row, then you can walk through and say, "Hey, I've got a solution to try to fix this, because I've been working on it in the background." So I wish that there was more that I could say than that, but I know personally that's what it is. Be inquisitive, be patient, be strategic, and build those relationships.
Connect with Lisa Miller on LinkedIn
Connect with Jim Cagliostro on LinkedIn
Connect with Brian Bartel on LinkedIn
Check out VIE Healthcare and SpendMend
You’ll also hear:
From critical care to materials management, Brian’s journey in healthcare: ‘’No day is the same. Hopefully we can bring efficiencies and streamline processes to avoid some of these chaotic fires that pop up, but again, every day brings this new challenge.’’
A straightforward definition of purchased services: ‘’I just keep it simple. Is it a service that we're purchasing and that's usually typically some sort of a purchase or a contract or an outsource of some service that we're taking advantage of.’’
The benefits of a mentor in effective contract management: ‘’If you would've just stuck me in purchased services when I left the critical care access hospital, I would've had no idea, but I had a mentor, I had somebody that was teaching me that. So rely on those people and ask those questions. Ask the department managers, your GPO. Again, I know that there are pros and cons of GPOs, but that's a great place to look too.’’
What To Do Next:
Subscribe to The Economics of Healthcare and receive a special report on 15 Effective Cost Savings Strategies.
There are three ways to work with VIE Healthcare:
Benchmark a vendor contract – either an existing contract or a new agreement.
We can support your team with their cost savings initiatives to add resources and expertise. We set a bold cost savings goal and work together to achieve it.
VIE can perform a cost savings opportunity assessment. We dig deep into all of your spend and uncover unique areas of cost savings.
If you are interested in learning more, the quickest way to get your questions answered is to speak with Lisa Miller at [email protected] or directly at 732-319-5700.
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