The Hidden Third

The Hidden Third

By Mariana van Zeller

From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode Mar... more
Download on the App Store

Best of The Hidden Third

The most played episodes among Podcast App listeners.

  1. Number 1: The Man Governments Send to Negotiate with Terrorists | Tom Gregg

    Hostage negotiator and UN mediator Tom Gregg on Afghanistan, the Taliban, the Haqqani network, and the Bowe Bergdahl prisoner exchange. He has spent more than twenty years in rooms most of us will never see. Tom Gregg is a conflict and hostage mediator — the man governments send when they need to talk to people they officially refuse to communicate with. He was the UN's man in eastern Afghanistan, the most dangerous corner of the country, when a full-blown insurgency against America took hold. In September 2006 a suicide bomber assassinated Governor Hakim Taniwal, the man he worked alongside — a former university professor who'd come home from exile in Australia to try to rebuild his homeland. The next day a second bomber walked into the funeral and blew himself up among the mourners who'd come to bury him. He has mediated in Somalia, Nigeria and the Sahel, negotiated with kidnappers to bring hostages home, and run back channels for the United Nations, the U.S. government and the World Health Organization. When Kabul fell in August 2021, the UN sent him in to open the first face-to-face talks between the United Nations and the Taliban leadership. He almost never gives interviews, because almost none of his work can be discussed. This is one of the very few long conversations he has ever done. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Tom Gregg sits down with me to explain how the invisible business of negotiation actually works. We talk about: The 2014 Bowe Bergdahl exchange: five Guantánamo prisoners for one American soldier, and how a deal that big actually gets done Flying into Kabul days after the Taliban takeover to open the UN's first face-to-face talks with the new regime The Haqqanis: how the family America armed to fight the Soviets became the deadliest enemy the U.S. faced in Afghanistan Washington armed the father. The son now runs the police. How Sirajuddin Haqqani went from a ten-million-dollar FBI bounty to Afghanistan's interior minister The morning a suicide bomber killed Governor Hakim Taniwal, who he worked alongside in Gardez, and the second bomb that hit the funeral the next day Why those two attacks were the first sign that America's plan for Afghanistan was already failing How a kid from Australia ended up as a UN Political Affairs Officer in the most dangerous corner of Afghanistan The backpacking trip that changed his life, and the time he almost got mugged in Mexico City — the strangest night of his life Negotiating vaccine access with armed groups, and what it takes to get a nurse safely into a war zone Private diplomacy at the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue in Geneva, and what an NGO can do that no government can What Afghanistan looks like in 2026, with Pakistan now bombing the same provinces the insurgency once crossed from How Bono once told him he was against Bill Clinton engaging Gerry Adams, the Sinn Féin leader the U.S. had banned for twenty years — and how watching that gamble help deliver the Good Friday Agreement changed his mind about talking to your enemy Why the most consequential work in the world is done by people whose names you will never learn His PTSD, how he got better, and why he believes communication is the only thing that ever really ends a war If you're interested in war, hostage negotiation, Afghanistan, the Taliban, intelligence, diplomacy, or the hidden systems that decide who lives and who comes home, this conversation goes somewhere almost no interview does. Subscribe to The Hidden Third on YouTube, and follow, rate and comment on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. It genuinely helps. Get exclusive episodes, behind-the-scenes conversations, and unaired footage from stories we couldn't tell anywhere else at Patreon.com/thehiddenthird Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    2h 27min
    Listen Later
  2. Number 2: Ohtani's Bookie Is Out of Prison — And He's Talking

    Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Matt Bowyer — the illegal bookmaker at the center of the Shohei Ohtani–Ippei Mizuhara betting scandal — is back on The Hidden Third, and this time he's talking from the other side of federal prison. The last time Matt sat down with me, it was 11 days before he self-surrendered to FCI Lompoc. His underground sportsbook had handled more than $1 billion in bets in a single year, taken action from roughly 700 to 1,200 clients (including Shohei Ohtani's former interpreter, who stole nearly $17 million from the Dodgers superstar to cover his losses), and helped trigger one of the biggest gambling scandals in Major League Baseball history. Now he's out, released early after six months, and the story has only gotten stranger. In our conversation, Matt takes me inside Lompoc: how contraband gets in, how the “cars” (prison crews) really run the yard, why a pouch of "carnitas" (shredded pork) is the closest thing to currency, and how he ran a full business from behind bars — concierge service, personal chef, the works. He tells me what he actually believes about what Shohei Ohtani knew — or didn't know — about Ippei Mizuhara's bets. He opens up about how prison changed him, why he thinks Resorts World Las Vegas got off easy with a $10.5 million fine, where he lands on the explosion of legal prediction markets and sports betting apps, and what he's building next now that he's a free man. This is a rare, unfiltered look at how the illegal sports betting world really works, from the bookie known as "bookie to the athletes." TOPICS COVERED • The Shohei Ohtani betting scandal, explained by the bookmaker at the center of it • Ippei Mizuhara and the $17 million embezzled from the Dodgers • Life inside FCI Lompoc federal prison camp • Running a business from behind bars • What Matt believes Shohei Ohtani knew (and didn't know) • How illegal sports betting operations actually work • Resorts World Las Vegas, the Nevada Gaming Control Board, and the $10.5M money-laundering settlement • The Nevada Black Book and Matt's nomination • Prediction markets vs. sportsbooks vs. offshore books • Athletes, gambling addiction, and what MLB still doesn't want to talk about • What Matt is building now that he's out #ShoheiOhtani #MattBowyer #MathewBowyer #IppeiMizuhara #OhtaniScandal #SportsBetting #IllegalGambling #MLB #Dodgers #TrueCrime #Investigation #Podcast #MarianaVanZeller #TheHiddenThird #ResortsWorld #Bookmaker #PredictionMarkets #Kalshi #Polymarket #Lompoc #FederalPrison Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    2h 16min
    Listen Later
  3. Number 3: Secret Service Interrogator: How He Got Killers to Talk | Brad Beeler

    Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at⁠ https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA⁠ #oneskinpod Brad Beeler is one of the most experienced criminal polygraph examiners in U.S. Secret Service history — a 25-year federal agent who has sat across the table from counterfeiters, child predators, killers, and fraudsters, and gotten a remarkable number of them to tell him the truth. What looks in the movies like pressure, threats, and Reid-technique interrogation is, in his telling, almost the opposite: a science-backed set of trust-building, deception-detection, and interview techniques that he says a parent, a teacher, or a business leader can learn to use just as effectively as a federal agent. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Brad sits down with me to walk through the cases that shaped his career — from a years-long hunt for a master counterfeiter, to child-exploitation investigations, to a homicide confession he still calls the most transformative moment of his life — and to break down what actually gets people who don't want to talk to tell you the truth. We dig into: – Growing up in Union, Missouri, and how a childhood best friend who was deaf became the origin of the way he now thinks about communication.– His path into the Secret Service. – How he became a federal polygraph examiner and ended up conducting more criminal polygraph exams than anyone in Secret Service history.– The real story of how polygraphs work - why people "beat the examiner, not the instrument," how false confessions happen, and where confirmation bias becomes dangerous. – The King of Counterfeit case: the multi-year hunt for a master counterfeiter, and how the suspect's own ego became the interview lever.– His child-exploitation work with local ICAC task forces and homicide detectives — the cases that earned him U.S. Secret Service Special Agent of the Year in 2015. – The homicide confession he describes as "transformative," and how silence, presence, and empathy did what pressure never could. – Four years on the protective detail of former President George H. W. Bush in Maine and Houston, including what the Bushes did every Christmas so agents could be with their families. – His final post as instructor and Secret Service liaison at the National Center for Credibility Assessment, the federal government's polygraph school at Fort Jackson. – The tradecraft behind his new book, Tell Me Everything: A Secret Service Agent's Proven Strategies for Earning Trust, Revealing the Truth, and Communicating with Anyone — and why the same techniques that get a suspect to confess can also get a scared kid to text his parents at 2 a.m. If you're interested in true crime, interrogation techniques, deception detection, lie detector tests, Secret Service stories, child-exploitation investigations, or how the best interviewers in federal law enforcement actually get people to talk, this interview goes far beyond the headlines and tells the story in Brad's own words. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    1h 58min
    Listen Later
  4. Number 4: How an LAPD Captain Solved a 30-Year-Old Cold Case Murder

    Nearly 30 years after 15‑year‑old Danielle “Danni” Houchins was murdered in Montana, former LAPD captain Tom Elfmont helped finally bring her family answers. Drawing on more than 25 years running gang and narcotics operations in South Los Angeles, Tom has turned his skills to cold cases and long‑forgotten victims. In this episode, he takes us inside policing during some of the most volatile moments in modern U.S. history — from Vietnam and the protest years in Berkeley to the 1992 Los Angeles riots and the notorious 39th and Dalton drug raid that put his LAPD career on trial. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    2h 8min
    Listen Later
  5. Number 5: She Was the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki. Then She Became a PTA Mom in New Jersey.

    Nikki Mammano arrived in Hawaii as a college student and, within months, was running crystal meth in Waikiki. She became known as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki — until it all came crashing down. Today, she’s a PTA mom in New Jersey and the author of Breaking Good, a brutally honest memoir about addiction, trauma, and the long road to healing. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we trace Nikki’s journey from an abused child and teenage addict to a meth dealer in Hawaii’s underworld, and eventually to a sober life built on therapy, accountability, and telling the truth about her past. She talks candidly about prison, homelessness, sex work, parenting with a criminal record, and what recovery really looks like years after the last high. In this conversation, we cover: Childhood abuse and the early wounds that shaped her Her teenage struggle with addiction How a college move to Hawaii spiraled into full‑time meth dealing Life as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki and the rules of that underworld Violence, paranoia, and the moment everything collapsed Prison, shame, and confronting buried trauma Homelessness, sex work, and the cost of survival Parenting, PTA meetings, and living honestly with your past The role of therapy in long‑term recovery Why she wrote Breaking Good and what she hopes readers take from it If you or someone close to you is dealing with addiction, Nikki’s story is not a neat redemption arc — it’s a raw, hopeful map of relapse, repair, and the possibility of starting over. Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    1h 30min
    Listen Later

The Hidden Third episodes:

FAQs about The Hidden Third:

How many episodes does The Hidden Third have?

The podcast currently has 48 episodes available.