The Holy Hell Podcast

What if you could address complex topics like racism, climate change, and faith within the confines of a children's book? What if these books could spark important conversations, challenge societal conditioning, and reevaluate Western church teachings? Today's episode is with Jelani Memory, author of "A Kid's Book About Racism" and founder of Kids Co. We discuss how his imaginative yet knowledgeable approach helps in creating books that tackle tough subjects in a manner digestible for kids. We cast a critical eye on Western American Christianity, its motivations, and the commodification of the church. We also reflect on the church's failure to adequately address racism, and Jelani shares his own experiences grappling with this disconnect.

JELANI ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/jelanimemory/

GET JELANI'S BOOK HERE: https://akidsco.com/products/a-kids-book-about-racism

PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/HolyHell

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WE'RE BACK...and with a bang. We're kicking off our post-season interviews with none other than the legendary Rob Bell. He was a massive voice for many of us who began to question and deconstruct our faiths. Josh, one-half of Holy Hell, went down to Los Angeles to interview Rob for his new book, 'Where'd you Park your Spaceship.' We looked at its central themes, and how it offers readers the freedom to make their own interpretations. Buckle up for this soulful ride with our spiritual hero, Rob Bell.

Welcome to our season finale! This episode is a thought-provoking exploration of gender, religion, and the fascinating intersection between the two. Strap in as we tackle the complex topic of gendering in the Bible, delving into why a masculine God is prevalent in the evangelical world. We traverse the ancient pathways of first-century Celtic Christianity and its perceptions of the Divine Feminine while also looking at the implications of patriarchal societies and religions on today's church.

We also explore the necessity of creating equitable work environments and diversifying leadership within religious institutions. This journey is not just engaging but opens doors to conversations that need to be had. Plus, there’s a dog in this podcast. A dog makes everything better.

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APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...

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JOSH ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/joshjwhite

SAVANNAH ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/savannahrae...

CHAPTERS:

0:00 - Intro

06:50 - Yes, we read DM’s!

07:38 - Who will be our first sponsor?

13:20 - Patreon bonus ep’s

14:08 The Holy Hell Christmas Show

15:48 - today’s episode: Gender of God

18:07 - Celtic Christianity & Mother

27:10 - Concept of Gender & Religion

31:10 - Why God is masculine in the OT

37:43- gender in different religions

40:32 - why did God us a man (Jesus) and not a woman?

47:34 - why women terrify Josh

53:00 - why most churches identify God as male

01:03:54 - women should be in leadership in our churches

01:07:55 - Josh says the word “women” weird

01:09:02 - creating equitable environments

01:15:35 - Thanks for listening

Sav's Sources

The Disappearing L: Erasure of Lesbian Spaces and Culture - Bonnie Morris

Sophia: Aspects of the Divine Feminine Past & Present, edited by Susan Cady, Marian Ronan, and Hal Taussig - Collection of essays on the concept of wisdom (sophia) and the feminine depictions of God.

"God Beyond Gender: Feminist Christian God-Language" by Patricia Wilson-Kastner - Wilson-Kastner examines the language used to talk about God and how feminist theology has contributed to a more inclusive understanding of God's gender.

The History of God - Karen Armstrong - This book doesn't heavily discuss gender, but is a great read all around and is a great layout of the history of monotheistic Religions

Ever wondered how two people with different backgrounds and beliefs can come together to unite over a common cause? We’re gonna go on a journey into our pasts, our favorite things, and how we found our place in the world of Holy Hell. This episode is far from regular, so buckle up as we spill details about who we are, the artists we admire, and all the spicy stuff.

PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/HolyHell

LISTEN ON:

APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...

SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J5azxx...

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INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/theholyhellpod

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THREADS: https://www.threads.net/@theholyhellpod

JOSH ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/joshjwhite

SAVANNAH ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/savannahrae...

Your favorite duo is back with the MOST requested episode ever: homosexuality.

Josh & Savannah untangle the subject of queer theology, examining misinterpretations that have fueled hurtful narratives. By meticulously dissecting Bible passages from the Old Testament to the New, Josh & Saw unravel the complexities of language and translation, providing a well-rounded understanding that can foster informed conversations. Savannah even receives a unique gift - a vintage camera loaded with 36 photos documenting her experience of turning 30…or does she?

PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/HolyHell

LISTEN ON:

APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...

SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J5azxx...

ADD US ON:

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/theholyhellpod

TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@UCLMLdff3uGiC...

THREADS: https://www.threads.net/@theholyhellpod

JOSH ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/joshjwhite

SAVANNAH ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/savannahrae...

CHAPTER:

0:00 Burfdays!

7:43 - Officiating Weddings

10:26 - The Holy Hell Christmas Show

11:01 - Patreon!

11:52 - Intro

12:05 - Today’s Topic: Homosexuality

16:46 - how sin & homosexuality came to be

23:31 - OT vs. NT

24:39 Leviticus 18-22 and 20-13

30:56 - Genesis 19-5

32:54 - what Leviticus is ACTUALLY about

34:44 - where are all the lesbians?

35:56 - power structures in the Bible

39:30 - malakoi & arsenokoitai

44:04 - 1 Corinthians 6-9

47:47 - the things Paul said/did

52:10 - was Paul an extremist?

55:07 - why people are afraid leaving non-affirming churches

56:32 - most pastors are actually affirming

57:08 - people and churches who become affirming will lose something

1:01:50 - recap - homosexuality in the Bible

1:02:47 - Savannah is RAGING

1:06:41 - now Josh is RAGING

1:07:38 - Savannah is RAGING AGAIN

1:08:26 - was Joseph gay?

1:09:08 - what does Jesus say about homosexuality?

1:15:29 - churches becoming affirming

1:15:46 - ask your pastor about your churches LGBTQ+ stance

1:18:08 - non-affirming churches perpetuate violence against our queer communities

1:18:33 - Josh’s story of becoming affirming

1:22:54 - closing thoughts

1:24:15 - queer resources

1:27:40 - WE RANKED NUMBER TWO!

CITED BIBLE VERSES:

Genesis 19-5

Leviticus 18-22

1 Corinthians 6-9-11

1 Timothy 1-10

CITED SOURCES:

Josh's teaching on homosexuality:   

 • Homosexuality & T...  

Marcella Althaus-Reid: An Argentine theologian, Althaus-Reid explored themes of sexuality, gender, and liberation theology. Her work challenged traditional theological frameworks and sought to incorporate queer perspectives.

Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: Mollenkott is an American feminist theologian who has written extensively on gender, sexuality, and the Bible. She has advocated for LGBTQ+ inclusion in Christian communities and has worked to reconcile Christianity with LGBTQ+ identities.

James V. Brownson: Brownson is an American theologian who wrote the book "Bible, Gender, Sexuality: Reframing the Church's Debate on Same-Sex Relationships." In his work, he engages with biblical texts and argues for an affirming interpretation of same-sex relationships.

Elizabeth Stuart: Stuart, a British theologian, has made significant contributions to queer theology. Her work focuses on sexuality, gender, and biblical interpretation, aiming to challenge heteronormative readings of Scripture.

Patrick S. Cheng: Cheng is an Asian-American theologian and Episcopal priest who advocates for LGBTQ+ rights and inclusion within the church. His work combines queer theology, liberation theology, and Asian-American theology.

Justin Tanis: Tanis is a transgender theologian and author who has written on transgender issues within a theological context. He has contributed to the development of transgender theology and advocates for greater acceptance and inclusion of transgender individuals in religious communities.

Books:

Changing our Minds - David Gushee

After Evangelicalism - David Gushee

Slaves, Women & Homosexuals - William J. Webb

The 1946 Documentary - how the word “homosexual” entered into the Bible

People to follow on Instagram: @AdamEricksen @MikeMaeshiro @Queerthology @ConfidentlyQueer @colbymartin @kevinjgarcia

Have you ever wondered about the many names of God in Hebrew and Greek, and their meanings? Join us for our first live show, where we dive deep into the fascinating world of the Christian religion from a religious and historical perspective. Together, we'll explore the significance of names like Elohim, Adonai, and Yahweh, and shed light on the complexities of gender in the Bible.

Our conversation takes a captivating turn as we discuss unique names of God from the Jewish and Christian faith, and how other nations and tribes used unique names for their own gods. We also examine the stories behind the creation poem and the title "Son of God" in the Bible, tracing it back to the Ides of March and the rise of the Roman Empire. Discover how Jesus was flipping the script when he called himself "Son of God" and how this was not only an interior spiritual work, but also an exterior political jab at the Caesar of the day.

Don't miss this enlightening discussion, and be sure to check out our Patreon page to show your support for the podcast! We appreciate our amazing listeners and look forward to fostering meaningful dialogue and relationships through this journey. Let's learn from each other and grow together in our understanding of the Christian faith and its historical context.

Helpful sources:

1. "The Jewish Study Bible" (Oxford University Press) - This study Bible provides commentary and insights from Jewish scholars, offering explanations of various biblical terms and concepts, including Adonai.

2. "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature" by David L. Jeffrey - This resource explores the use of biblical language, including Adonai, in English literature and provides historical and literary context.

3. "The Son of God in the Roman World: Divine Sonship in Its Social and Political Context" by Michael Peppard - This book explores the concept of divine sonship in the Greco-Roman world, providing insights into the use of the title "Son of God" in the New Testament.:

Savannah discusses how violence was used in the Bible. She also covers how Biblical violence has historically been used as justification for violence among minorities.

Josh brings us a spiritual perspective of how the Christian community must approach the Bible differently and let go of literalism to make room for the spiritual truths of the Bible.

Savannah's sources:

1 Forced painting of white Jesus

https://theconversation.com/the-long-history-of-how-jesus-came-to-resemble-a-white-european-142130

2 Forced conversion of Native Americans

https://pluralism.org/first-encounters-native-americans-and-christians

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/11/13/american-indians-balance-native-customs-with-christianity

3 (Book) John Collins - Does the Bible Justify Violence

4 (Article) Esau McCualley - What Supporters of Gun Rights Mean When They Talk About ‘Evil’

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/opinion/mass-shooting-evil.html

Josh and Savannah talk about hell. Where we got the idea of hell. How Christianity has CHANGED its concepts of hell over time and what pieces of pop culture influence our modern beliefs around hell. They also make a case for why Swifties could be the first and most productive cult in human history.